BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 09:42 AM

that the Jewish state seems to arouse a level of condemnation that never seems to apply equally elsewhere.

Ya gots that exactly backwards, Boo. Yet again.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 09:48 AM

"The Hamas leadership is responsible for the killing of Palestinians, not Israelis," he told Haaretz in 2010. "I tell you with certainty that the Israelis care about the Palestinians far more than the Hamas or Fatah leadership does."

When the Son of Hamas Spied for Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 09:54 AM

THE ISRAELI HUMAN RIGHTS GROUP B'TSELEM HAS RECORDED NUMEROUS OCCASIONS WHEN THE ISRAELI ARMY HAS FIRED FLECHETTE SHELLS, BOTH IN LEBANON AND GAZA. THE SHELL RELEASES THOUSANDS OF TINY METAL DARTS THAT CAUSE HORRIBLE INJURIES TO ANYONE OUT IN THE OPEN.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 10:05 AM

Link?


I do not believe ANYTHING YOU say without some supporting link.

You have made too many lies to have earned any trust.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 10:55 AM

Third time around
VERMONT
While I'm at it:
HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH

Human Rights Watch, on Israel's Conduct
After conducting an investigation, Human Rights Watch (HRW) issued a report on Wednesday accusing Israel of carrying out "unlawful" strikes in Gaza, ones that "either did not attack a legitimate military target or attacked despite the likelihood of civilian casualties being disproportionate to the military gain." It noted that "Such attacks committed deliberately or recklessly constitute war crimes." HRW Middle East Director Sarah Leah Whitson also added that Israel's actions raise "serious questions as to whether these attacks are intended to target civilians or wantonly destroy civilian property."

________________________________________
ADVERTISEMENT
________________________________________
The report also said that "Human Rights Watch has documented numerous serious violations of the laws of war by Israeli forces in the past decade, particularly indiscriminate attacks on civilians," and criticized Israel's preposterously inadequate efforts at "warning" civilians of impending strikes. Now, which part of all that fits with "exemplary" efforts at avoiding killing civilians? Still, some may buy into Israel's allegation that Hamas's use of human shields is what's responsible for the high civilian death toll. Let's look at the evidence.
Human Shields
While human rights organizations haven't yet addressed "human shields" allegations in the ongoing round of Israel-Gaza violence, they did after the 2009 round when Israel killed at least773 Palestinian civilians, compared to three Israeli civilian casualties (a ratio of 257:1), and used the same "human shields" argument to deflect responsibility for those deaths. When the dust settled, Amnesty International investigated the matter and concluded that there was "no evidence that [Palestinian] rockets were launched from residential houses or buildings while civilians were in these buildings." More attention-worthy was the report's note that,
in the cases of [Israeli] precision missiles or tank shells which killed [Palestinian] civilians in their homes, no fighters were present in the houses that were struck and Amnesty International delegates found no indication that there had been any armed confrontations or other military activity in the immediate vicinity at the time of the attack.
Israel's Use of Human Shields
By contrast, the same report found that "in several cases Israeli soldiers also used [Palestinian] civilians, including children, as 'human shields'." Going back in time just a little further to put this into context is important: when the Israeli Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that the Israeli military had to stop using Palestinian civilians as human shields, the Israeli "defense" establishmentobjected to the ruling. The appeal against the ruling failed, and the practice remains technically illegal, but Israel implicitly encourages it to continue by offering an "inadequate … slap on the wrist," as Human Rights Watch put it, to Israeli soldiers caught using this reprehensible tactic.
This reveals two important things: the first is the moral hypocrisy and chutzpah on display when Israel ignores its own use of human shields as it accuses its enemies of using them. The second is Israel's self-contradicting logic: If Palestinian militants had such disregard for Palestinian civilian lives, why was the Israeli military so invested in maintaining the ability to use Palestinians as shields? The fact that the Israeli army wants to use Palestinian human shields actually proves that they believe Palestinian militants prefer not to endanger their own civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 11:05 AM

Musket,

Glad to see you signing your posts properly.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 11:30 AM

Gaza: In the minutes before the ceasefire kicked in at Gaza this morning, Hamas fired a flurry of rockets towards Israel - 30 according to some counts.

Israel has argued that that these rockets are fired from civilian areas, and this is why its retaliatory strikes can result in civilian casualties.

But this morning, NDTV witnessed one such rocket silo being created under a tent right next to the hotel where our team was staying. Minutes later, we saw the rocket being fired, just before the 72-hour ceasefire came into effect.

It began with a mysterious tent with a blue canopy that bobbed up yesterday (August 4) at 6:30 am in an open patch of land next to our window. We saw three men making a multitude of journeys in and out of the tent, sometimes with wires.

An hour later, they emerged, dismantled the tent, changed their clothes and walked away.

The next morning - today - we woke to news of the 72-hour ceasefire but just before it was to take effect, the rocket next to our hotel was fired. There was a loud explosion and a whooshing sound. The cloud of smoke that rose was captured by our cameraperson.

This report is being aired on NDTV and published on ndtv.com after our team left the Gaza strip - Hamas has not taken very kindly to any reporting of its rockets being fired. But just as we reported the devastating consequences of Israel's offensive on Gaza's civilians, it is equally important to report on how Hamas places those very civilians at risk by firing rockets deep from the heart of civilian zones.

NDTV Exclusive: How Hamas Assembles and Fires Rockets Video

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 11:30 AM

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/05/lady-warsi-resigns-government-gaza-stance
"Glad to see you signing your posts properly."
In other words - no comment on Israel's use of horrific weapons on civilians - no change there then
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 11:35 AM

"This report is being aired on NDTV and published on ndtv.com after our team left the Gaza strip - Hamas has not taken very kindly to any reporting of its rockets being fired. But just as we reported the devastating consequences of Israel's offensive on Gaza's civilians, it is equally important to report on how Hamas places those very civilians at risk by firing rockets deep from the heart of civilian zones.
"


No comment on Hamas's use of civilians as human shields- no change there then

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 12:02 PM

BBC also reported the launch outside their hotel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 02:45 PM

Kawasmeh attempted to flee to Jordan with fake identification once the bodies of the teens were found. During interrogation, Kawasmeh admitted that he had acted as the leader of the murder in which Marwan Kawasmeh and Amar Abu-Eisha are also suspects. Hossam said that he obtained funding for the attack from Hamas operatives in the Gaza Strip.


Leader in murder of Israeli teens arrested

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 02:55 PM

"Hossam said that he obtained funding for the attack from Hamas operatives in the Gaza Strip."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 04:53 PM

Sometimes people assume that you can have access to everything, that you can see everything. But the fighters are virtually invisible to us. What we do as photographers is document what we can to show that side of the war. There are funerals, there are people being rushed to the hospital, but you can't differentiate the fighters from the civilians. They are not wearing uniforms. If there is someone coming into the hospital injured, you can't tell if that's just a shopkeeper or if this is someone who just fired a rocket towards Israel. It's impossible to know who's who. We tried to cover this as objectively as possible.

NY Times: Looking for the Enduring Photo in Gaza

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 04:54 PM

"Hossam said that he obtained funding for the attack from Hamas operatives in the Gaza Strip."

So, our apologists have egg on their face once again.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 06:23 PM

FRANCE 24 has exclusive footage of a Hamas rocket launching pad that appears to prove the militant group has been firing from areas heavily populated with civilians.

Correspondent Gallagher Fenwick says the site, in Gaza City, is some 50 metres from a hotel where the majority of international media is staying, and just 100 metres from a UN building.

"This type of setup is at the heart of the debate," says Gallagher. "The Israeli army has repeatedly accused the Palestinian militants of shooting from within densely populated civilian areas and that is precisely the type of setup we have here."

The launching pad is also where the FRANCE 24 team had a close call last week. During a live cross to the Paris studio, a rocket was fired overhead, forcing Gallagher and his crew to take cover.

FRANCE 24

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 06:25 PM

Hamas is attempting to convince Palestinians that its military actions during the Gaza conflict were victorious and that the war it caused, with all its destruction, was beneficial to the Palestinians. As Palestinian Media Watch previously reported, Hamas justified the civilian deaths it caused in Gaza, claiming that it was beneficial to those killed to have died for Allah as Shahids - Martyrs. Now, Hamas is justifying the widespread destruction it caused to infrastructure and homes, saying, "Perhaps all this [destruction] is for the best":

Hamas TV: Perhaps destruction in Gaza is "for the best"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 06:34 PM

Israel Confirms Hamas Funded Kidnapping

Accomplice in abduction and murder of three teens says order came from Gaza

By Batya Ungar-Sargon — Aug 5, 2014

Israel has confirmed that the funding for the June kidnapping and murder of Israeli teenagers Naftali Frankel, Gilad Shaer, and Eyal Yifrah—which set off a chain of events that led to the current war in Gaza—was provided by Hamas.

Hassam Qawasameh, a Palestinian man arrested on July 11 in connection with the abduction, admitted that the orders and financing of the kidnapping came from Gaza. Paul Hirschson, deputy spokesperson for international media at Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, tweeted the news this afternoon after an Israeli gag order was lifted.

Hirschson confirmed by phone that Qawasameh was arrested three weeks ago in connection with the kidnapping, and that Qawasameh admitted the Hamas connection under interrogation.

Ynet reports that money from Hamas operatives in Gaza was used to purchase weapons used in the attack, as well as the plot of land in which the bodies were buried.

Today's confirmation refutes speculation from various news outlets last week that Hamas wasn't behind the kidnapping, and that the kidnappers were operating as a "lone cell."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 06:56 PM

It appears that Boo has contracted an acute case of serial postarrhoea from BullshotBruce.

The CDC should be advised - it might spread.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 07:00 PM

Yawwwn!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Aug 14 - 08:58 PM

You mean BWWWAAAAARP, or other representations of liquid defecation, dontcha, Boo?

Paregoric is the thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 02:55 AM

Here's one for Keith. A quote from David Cameron's No. 10 spokesman yesterday after ministers called for a banning of military sales to Israel.

"Export licences are under review and there are existing EU limitations on the types of military hardware Israel can purchase."

Oh how Keith laughed as he decided his ignorance must be right because it was only thick Musket who seems to know about it...

I wonder if any of our other war mongering cut and paste johnnies are noticing how western and Middle Eastern governments seem to be starting to share the same view of Israeli war crimes in Palestine?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 03:59 AM

"Israel Confirms Hamas Funded Kidnapping"
No - Israel claims that to be the case - I think you'll find that "interrogation" is referred to as "special rendition" nowadays.
I watched an discussion on Irish television last night where three media people discussed the reportage of the Gaza bloodbath.
They were all stunned by the tidal-wave of condemnation of Israeli behaviour coming from the on-the-spot reporters and their interviewees - doctors, aid workers, neutral observers, victims.... all universally describing the events as unacceptable.
They ended the programme by saying that the Israelis were aware of overwhelming condemnation and just didn't give a fuck.
It's difficult to see how our brown-nosing politicians will talk their way out of this one - no doubt they will try.
So far we have had one Conservative Minister saying it would be "wrong to condemn Israel because it would endanger peace negotiations".
America condemned the shelling of hospitals and shelters, but continued to sell Israel the weaponry to do it.
Politicians eh - but they must be right because Keith trusts them and says their word over-rides those of Human Rights organisations.      
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 04:55 AM

Musket, Google can not find that quote.
Where did you see it?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 08:27 AM

Gaza School Attack Now Appears To Be Staged

Jeff Dunetz wrote at Truth Revolt:

    The account promoted by Hamas and repeated by the United States and the U.N. on Sunday was that an Israeli mortar hit a U.N. school, killing 10 people, including children. However, evidence is emerging that the Israeli strike hit outside of the school and the bodies were moved into the courtyard to make it look like Israel hit the school.

Rick Moran noted at PJTatler that the shell "struck a street outside the school gates on Sunday morning."

Now a video posted by Moral Divide indicates the Palestinian propaganda machine — otherwise known as "Pallywood" — had swung into action. And naturally, the rabidly anti-Israel left bought it, hook, line and sinker.

Here's the video: YouTube

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 08:39 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/hamas-rocket-team-caught-on-video-2014-8


But anything not from the Hamas propaganda site HAS to be a lie,


Right, Jimmy boy?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 08:48 AM

Unlike Mudcat's apologists and Jew haters the people of Gaza know who is to blame:

"Palestinian civilians attacked Hamas spokesperson Sami Abu Zuhri and beat him near Shifa Hospital in the Gaza Strip recently, according to a report on the Egyptian website Veto Gate.

According to the site, Abu Zuhri's attackers were expressing anger at Hamas, placing blame on the terrorist organization for inciting the IDF's Operation Protective Edge in which nearly 2,000 Palestinians were killed and some 10,000 homes destroyed."

Report: Hamas spokesperson attacked by Gaza civilians

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 09:34 AM

"But anything not from the Hamas propaganda site HAS to be a lie,"
There have been such accusations made throughout - virtually all unsubstantiated
Even if this one is genuine THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THE WANTON SLAUGHTER OF NEARLY TWO THOUSAND HUMAN BEINGS - MAINLY NON- COMBATANTS, MANY CHILDREN INCLUDED WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU AND YOUS HAVE SUPPORTED THROUGHOUT
You have been given desriptians and photographs of Palestinian childern being dent into unsafe ares sat on the bonnets of military vehicles - of Israeli troops usng occupied homes as lookout points, of schoolyards being used to launch rockets, of teachers having to flee with infants in arms to escape tear-gas...... not a murmur from one of you.
Such acts are reprehensible - whoever is to blame.
Bastards, them and you
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 09:42 AM

No, Jimmy.

YOU are the bastard for supporting Hamas in it's war crimes: Attacking the civilian population of Israel, using it's own civilians as human shields, and using protected sites such as schools, apartments, and hospitals as military sites.

YOU have blood all over you for that support.

You keep posting Hamas propaganda, and have YET to admit that it has been shown to be false in many cases-

YOU blame Israel for what YOU are encouraging Hamas to do- KILL PALESTINIAN CIVILIANS.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 09:50 AM

"THE WANTON SLAUGHTER OF NEARLY TWO THOUSAND HUMAN BEINGS - MAINLY NON- COMBATANTS, MANY CHILDREN INCLUDED "


Which I have stated is Hamas responsibility, and YOU ignore.

WHERE DO THOSE 900 ANTI-PERSONNEL ROCKETS THAT HIT GAZA AFTER BEING LAUNCHED AT ISRAEL BY HAMAS LAND, that they NEVER hurt anyone according to YOU and HAMAS??

Yet EVERY Israeli shell seeks out some civilian, every time that Israel attacks the launching sites of those ILLEGAL HAMAS ROCKETS.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 10:48 AM

I didn't see it. Prick. I am a normal person. I use the internet, I am not governed by it. The Today programme possibly, or Radio 2. Not every verbal word in current affairs is transcribed into text, funnily enough. Mind you, I assume it was part of a press release so keep trying, it might turn up yet.

If your wife tells you your tea has gone cold, do you google "cold tea" and defy her to call you a liar?

There aren't half some odd buggers on Mudcat. Not all of them are benign either.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 10:51 AM

"Which I have stated is Hamas responsibility, and YOU ignore"
Whoops sorry Juicy Brucie- I thought it was the Israeli tanks guns bombs and planes which have done the killing.
To describe this massacre as "defensive" is an obscenity in itself - it is nothing less than mass murder on a grand scale.
Whatever I might think of Hamas - Israel has been the aggressor throughout this war.

The Blockade is newly ten years old, the Walls have been in existence for nearly that long - efforts to create a 'Jewish' State' via forcibly imposed settlements date back to the 1960s.
The State of Israel came into existence with the sound of hand-grenades being thrown into occupied homes - departing British troops ad the Israeli historian Max Morris testified to that fact.
It was those massacres which inspired Albert Einstein and his Jewish co-signatories to warn of a "Fascist Zionist State".
Hamas is guilty of offering resistance; they were put into authority because their predecessors weren't up to the job.
Israel is recognised throughout the world as an aggressor - some have supported that aggression for business and political reasons, but the Palestinians are victims of Israeli aggression.
You have said yourself that the Palestinians have no right to their homeland - multiply that with a wealthy, politically influential, well armed and equipped aggressive state marching in mob handed - four times now, and each time filling another few graveyards and leaving thousands of people homeless each time - plus a nearly decade long siege to bring a poverty-stricken, ill-armed and ill trained Third World people to their knees - that is the situation.
This last obscenity has proved too rich for even Israels strongest allies - as the journalists said on last night's programme - the Israelis don't give two fucks what the world thinks of them - they will continue to starve and slaughter until somebody dos something about it.
There are now serious discussions of a boycott of Israeli goods - the quicker, the better.
I notice this latest bloodbath is being referred to as Israel's Soweto - about time.
I notice you fail to comment on Israel's deliberate use of childern as Human Targets - they probably all had rocket launchers in ther schoolbags!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 12:36 PM

Braidedbeardedbruce..

You keep saying that the children murdered by Israeli soldiers are the responsibility of Hamas.

I didn't know Hamas was fighting alongside Israelis? or in your head are all terrorists on the same side?

Every world leader reckons Israel are doing the bombing, and they employ clever people to tell them. Considering you and Poo Bad are the only people outside of the Israeli government saying otherwise, and you are both nobodies anyway, does that mean at long last you might just shut the fuck up?

Your glorifying of murder and mud slinging at anyone shocked and horrified at what you celebrate makes decent people have to shower more regularly.

And the price of water isn't cheap.





As every Gaza resident can tell you...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 12:45 PM

Musket,

The civilians being killed in Gaza are often killed by anti-personnel warheads.

Israel is using explosive warheads to destroy rockets and tunnels

HAMAS is using anti-personnel warheads on their rockets.

20-30% of the Hamas rockets are landing in GAZA.


WHERE DO THOSE 640-960 ANTI-PERSONNEL ROCKETS THAT HIT GAZA AFTER BEING LAUNCHED AT ISRAEL BY HAMAS LAND, that they NEVER hurt anyone according to YOU and HAMAS??



You and Jimmy boy might just shut the fuck up until you learn to look at the evidence and not just accept the propaganda ( OF EITHER SIDE) without question.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 01:18 PM

"The civilians being killed in Gaza are often killed by anti-personnel warheads."
Fucking nonsense
Almost the entire deaths in Gaza have been the direct results of deliberate Israeli attacks
"Israel is using explosive warheads to destroy rockets and tunnels"
And using mortars, tanks, flechette weapons, and all the armament they possess against everything in comes within range.
They actualy instructed those sheltering in U.N refuges t remain where they were, then shelled them - that's howw deliberate their attacks have been.
They gave the staff ten minutes to evacuate the buildings before they deliberately shelled hospitals.
A film last week showed an Israeli pilot explaining to a TV reporter how is lane worked and proudly showed her what magnificently sophisticated surveillance equipment, showing how they could pinpoint what they were aiming at.
Whe she pointed out that they were destroying hospitals, he paused, then sauid, "yeah, but we are offering them medical attention".
Deliberate murder and no pretence of anything else.
"HAMAS is using anti-personnel warheads on their rockets"
Proof of this please - go count the number of people who have actually been killed in the last dozen years and report back
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 01:25 PM

Jimmy,

"Almost the entire deaths in Gaza have been the direct results of deliberate Israeli attacks
"

ACCORDING TO YOU AND YOUR LIES, or just according to Hamas? When did YOU go over there for first hand information?

""HAMAS is using anti-personnel warheads on their rockets"
"

ARE YOU DENYING THIS??

There are pictures of the missiles, pictures of the impacts in Israel, and a large collection of fragments ALL SHOWING THAT THEY ARE ANTI_PERSONNEL.




I bet you think your shit doesn't stink, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 01:37 PM

Jimmy boy,

" go count the number of people who have actually been killed in the last dozen years and report back
Jim Carroll"

OK, I am. The number of civilians killed in recent years is consistent with two sets of numbers.

1. The inclusion of a large number of non-uniformed fighters in combat being claimed by Hamas to be civilian ( but the statistics are not correct- too many of the ages 18-27, not enough women)

2. The expected kill rate for random hits by Hamas anti-personnel rockets on unsheltered Palestinian civilians- 640- 960 rockets hitting Gaza, 2-3 killed, 45-60 wounded from each warhead.

Now tell me- Is Hamas LYING about who is being killed, or are they LYING about HOW they are being killed? EITHER fits the data.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 01:48 PM

2-3 killed, 45-60 wounded from each warhead.

Of course those are average values- some might hit an open area and kill no-one, some might land in a schoolyard and kill 25 or so.


The 20-30% misfire hitting Gaza is the OBSERVED rate- the number that do not leave the ground and explode at the launch site would add to this. No good figures on how many THAT is.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 01:55 PM

Musket,

I keep saying that the children murdered by Hamas anti-personnel rockets and by Israeli counter-fire at rocket launch sites that Hamas has ILLEGALLY located in protected areas are the responsibility of Hamas.


HAMAS stated that at least 160 children were killed in making those tunnels to attack Israel. I support THEY are all killed by Israel as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 01:58 PM

Brucie the blusterer
Don't know where your figures came from but actual sum total of rocket casualties since 2000 = 22
Now go and count how many revenge killings of civilians have taken place in the last three weeks
These are figures supplied by independent observers and freely available on non - aligned websits - and before you demand (beligerant twats like you don't ask) - I'll show you mine if and when you show me yours.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 02:02 PM

Where did your figure come from Jim?
Is it just Israeli casualties?
BB is referring to deaths within Gaza caused by failed rocket attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 02:04 PM

Jimmy boy,



"actual sum total of rocket casualties since 2000 = 22"

Yopu are not including the ADMITTED 30+ in Gaza the last few weeks?

The numbers I gave are for an unprotected urban environment, like Gaza.

The number YOU give ( which I presume is Israelis killed by Gazan rocket fire) is for a population with shelters and a warning system.

Since Hamas chose to use it's concrete to make tunnels to attack Israel RATHER THAN build shelters for their civilian population, the two sets of numbers cannot be compared.


Crawl back under your rock and jack off on the thought of those dead Palestinian civilians, Jimmy boy

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 02:16 PM

No I am not -m that can be put down directly to retaliation to extreme aggression
The numbers I gave are an overall total
"Since Hamas chose to use it's concrete to make tunnels to attack Israel RATHER THAN build shelters for their civilian population, "
Like us Brits spent all our money on air-raid shelters instead of defence weapon, do you mean.
Just what the Israelis would have wanted.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 02:23 PM

Musket, I think you must have misheard that quote if you have not made it up.

Andrew Smith is a spokesperson for Campaign Against Arms Trade.
"As long as Europe continues to give its unconditional military and political support to Israel then it has to bear a degree of responsibility for the ongoing conflict. "

"The EU policy is laid out in the EU/Israel Action plan, which states: "Israel and the EU will strive to intensify political, security, economic, scientific and cultural relations, and shared responsibility in conflict prevention and conflict resolution." Despite these rather heady words the arms sales and military collaboration has only continued, with EU nations taking a back seat, largely staying silent on Israel's actions. "
https://www.opendemocracy.net/transformation/andrew-smith/we-are-all-complicit-in-bombardment-of-gaza

I previously provided an EU list of all its restrictions.
Arms to Israel was not mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 02:26 PM

Jimmy,

"The numbers I gave are an overall total"


OVERALL TOTAL OF WHAT??????? There have been more Palestinians admitted being killed by launchers blowing up on the ground than that in the last 14 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 03:08 PM

At a local Gazan protest against the war, Hamas gunmen shot and killed 20 unarmed protesters on Monday last week and summarily executed 10 alleged collaborators with Israel the same day. Not everybody wants to die for the Islamist cause.

International humanitarian law requires that the armed force used to achieve an objective may be no more than that which is necessary and that only military objectives are lawful targets. Civilian infrastructure and people are unlawful targets unless they serve military purposes or are participating in hostilities as combatants, compromising their civilian status. Accordingly, risks to civilians must be assessed before deciding whether or how to attack a target or return fire.

In relation to the use of human shields, passive victims of Hamas military policy who find themselves in the vicinity of its facilities are to be protected as much as possible. In targeting a military objective, their casualties should not be disproportionate to the military advantage to be gained.
For example, a decision on whether or how to return mortar fire needs to take into account the obligation to minimise potential harm to civilians. On Wednesday last week, 15 Gazans were killed in an exchange of mortar fire initiated by Hamas from the site of a UN shelter. Questions arise as to whether IDF fire was responsible for the deaths and whether the IDF return fire was necessary, whether it was sufficiently informed by field intelligence, whether higher precision alternatives were available and whether target-specific legal advice and real-time monitoring was possible.

In contrast to passive victims, active human shields who voluntarily put their bodies in the service of Hamas's war effort intend to block fire in combat and they have an individual combat function that compromises their civilian status. Although they themselves are not legitimate targets, the facilities or people they seek to shield are. Their direct participation in hostilities undermines the legal obligation to protect them. They should be forewarned, but their deaths or injuries are legally caused.


Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/comment/how-gaza-became-one-big-suicide-bomb-20140803-zzxgn.html#ixzz39dm0aaZk

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 03:11 PM

Far from the camera's eye, Gaza's children are injured and sometimes even die, every time Hamas terrorists misfire a missile intended to kill other children in Israel.

But operatives quickly scramble into the scene and clear away the debris from the failed launch, before international cameras are able to snap a shot of the bloody mess.

Reporters are warned and sometimes roughed up. Photographers too. They understand the deal; they've been through this before and they know the rules of the region.

In Syria, dozens have died.

Italian journalist Gabriele Barbati, however, swallowed his fear and waited for the opportunity to tell the truth. When he left Gaza, he took his morals along with him and posted that truth in a tweet on the Twitter social networking site.

gabrielebarbati
Out of #Gaza far from #Hamas retaliation: misfired rocket killed children yday in Shati. Witness: militants rushed and cleared debris

The reference is to an alleged attack on the Al-Shati "refugee camp" and the Al-Shifa hospital in Gaza, both of which were blamed on Israel. An Iranian-made long-range Fajr rocket misfired upon launch at the Al-Shifa hospital, killing and injuring numerous civilians shortly after 5pm on July 28, including many children.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 03:13 PM

"A Palestinian Arab girl was killed and three others wounded in Gaza after a rocket fired at Israel by terrorists in the Hamas-enclave fell short, landing in Gaza itself.

The rocket was the third of four fired within an hour from Gaza. The Iron Dome anti-missile defense system shot down the first two, which were launched within minutes of each other, and the fourth hit a town in the Sedot Negev Regional Council, causing no damage.

Hamas medical sources say the fatality is a three-year-old girl."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 03:15 PM

In at least one case, a medium-range M-75, based on Iran's Fajr-5 rocket, exploded during launch. The rocket contains a conventional warhead of at least 100 kilograms and at least seven Palestinians were killed.

"Over the course of the operation approximately 280 rockets were launched and landed within the Gaza Strip," the military said on July 30.

In a briefing on July 29, military spokesman Lt. Col. Peter Lerner said Hamas rockets fell on civilian facilities in the Gaza Strip. He cited an accidental Hamas missile strike on Shifa Hospital in Gaza City and the Shati refugee camp just outside the city.

"A short while ago Al Shifa Hospital and Al Shati Refugee Camp were struck by failed rocket attacks launched by Gaza terrorists," the military said.

Hamas has denied any accidental rocket fire on the Gaza Strip. But Palestinian sources said numerous rocket launches ended up falling in Gaza communities and that scores of people have been killed or injured.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 03:26 PM

"OVERALL TOTAL OF WHAT"
Overall Israelis killed - even less reason to have carried out the slaughter they have done if your count of own goals is correct.
By the way - your figure of 30 recent deaths is an invention of your own.
Israel claimed three at the beginning of last week - uncorroborated of course - since then no claim of any - real or invented (except by you)
"Crawl back under your rock and jack off"
Wouldn't dare - too afraid that some Israeli would come along and crush me and my family and friends and neighbours.... and anybody who happened to be in the vicinity, to a pulp, then smash the rock to powwder in case somebody wanted to live there again
"Arms to Israel was not mentioned."
BRITISH ARMS SALES TO ANOTHER TERRORIST STATE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 03:32 PM

Jimmy,

OVER THE LAST !$ YEARS.


You really need to learn to read AND think.

Maybe even at the saw time.