BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 03:14 AM

From an Israeli supporter
Jim Carroll
A rose by any other name
LOSING THE PROPAGANDA WAR
JERUSALEM — ON Feb. 4, 1965, as a teenager, I left South Africa, the country of my birth, for a new home in a place I'd never been — Israel.
I loved South Africa, but I loathed the apartheid system. In Israel, I saw a fresh start for a people rising from the ashes of the Holocaust, a place of light and justice, as opposed to the darkness and oppression of apartheid South Africa.
Now, almost 50 years later, after decades of arguing that Israel is not an apartheid state and that it's a calumny and a lie to say so, I sense that we may be well down the road to being seen as one. That's because, in this day and age, brands are more powerful than truth and, inexplicably, blindly, Israel is letting itself be branded an apartheid state — and even encouraging it.
In apartheid South Africa, people disappeared in the night without the protection of any legal process and were never heard from again. There was no freedom of speech or expression and more "judicial" hangings were reportedly carried out there than in any other place on earth. There was no free press and, until January 1976, no public television.
Masses of black people were forcibly moved from tribal lands to arid Bantustans in the middle of nowhere. A "pass system" stipulated where blacks could live and work, splitting families and breaking down social structures, to provide cheap labor for the mines and white-owned businesses, and a plentiful pool of domestic servants for the white minority. Those found in violation were arrested, usually lashed, and sentenced to stints of hard labor for a few shillings per prisoner per day, payable to the prison service.
None of this even remotely exists in Israel or the occupied territories. But, increasingly, in the mind of the world it does. This is because of Israel's own actions and a vigorous campaign by those who oppose its occupation of Palestinians' land and, in some cases, Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. They understand that delegitimization is Israel's soft belly and apartheid the buzzword to make it happen.
International isolation is potentially more dangerous for Israel than the Iranian nuclear program. The Palestinians and their supporters, particularly the young generation, some of whom have graduated from the best universities in the world, have come to realize that the stones of the first intifada and the suicide bombers of the second are yesterday's weapons in yesterday's war.
Boycott, divestment and sanctions are now the way they seek to end the Israeli occupation or Jewish Israel itself. Their message has started to resonate with trade unions, churches, universities and international companies in Europe and the United States, who see Israel as oppressing Palestinians and violating their human rights.
A Dutch pension giant's decision last month to divest from Israel's five largest banks because of their ties to occupation rang warning bells in Israel's business community and the Treasury. According to the finance minister, even a partial European boycott would cost Israel 20 billion shekels (about $5.7 billion) in exports annually and almost 10,000 jobs. But the greatest damage is self-inflicted.
The "apartheid wall," "apartheid roads," colonization, administrative arrests, travel restrictions, land confiscations and house demolitions are the clay apartheid comparisons are made of, and cannot be hidden or denied, for as long as Israel continues with the status quo.
Military occupation comes with checkpoints, antiterrorist barriers, military courts, armed soldiers and tanks. That's the reality, no matter what your politics, and just the ammunition the Palestinians and their supporters need in their new war.
In the coming weeks, the United States is expected to put forward a framework for peace between Israel and the Palestinians, brokered by Secretary of State John Kerry. The Palestinians have said that if the talks fail to produce an agreement, they will take the battle against Israel and for their independence to the International Criminal Court and the United Nations and its various organizations, and fight for sanctions and boycotts, which they hope will force Israel, like apartheid South Africa before it, to its knees. As South Africa learned in the 1980s, possessing nuclear weapons may deter foes on the battlefield, but it doesn't help you win a propaganda war.
Unfortunately, Israel is doing almost everything it can to help its opponents achieve their goal. Instead of focusing on peace talks, Israel continuously signals its intention to build more settlement housing, most recently on Jan. 10, when plans for 1,400 new homes in East Jerusalem and the West Bank were announced. Instead of welcoming Eritrean and Sudanese refugees seeking asylum — the way that a former Likud Party prime minister, Menachem Begin, did in 1977 with the Vietnamese boat people, saying they reminded him of Jewish refugees during the Holocaust — Israel is confining today's asylum-seekers to a camp in the desert, providing reams of footage to those who want to prove Israel is a racist society.
And it didn't help when, on Dec. 15, a ministerial committee approved a bill that would impose heavy, punitive taxes on groups like B'Tselem, which tracks alleged human rights violations in the occupied territories, and Adalah, the legal center for minority rights in Israel.
As anyone who has bought a "Gucci" bag in a Bangkok market can tell you, it's all in the label. And the apartheid label is beginning to stick — fair or not. It carries with it huge consequences for Israel, which the country's inward-looking leaders seem impervious to. They have yet to understand that on this new battlefield, tanks don't count and the use of force, sure to be televised, plays into the hands of the enemy. It's a war Israel cannot win unless it makes peace.
Hirsh Goodman is the author, most recently, of "The Anatomy of Israel's Survival," and the editor in chief of The Jerusalem Report from 1990 to 2000.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 03:29 AM

Wise words Jim.
Thank you for sharing them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 07:07 AM

As I said - a rose by any other name.
The writer may not believe that what he describes is Apartheid (he wouldn't - he supports Israel)- but what he describes is exactly what it is.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 09:44 AM

Well, yes, it is a form of apartheid & much to be deplored therefore: esp as the situation represents that peculiarly vitiating wilfulness of the Israelis (which, as I never tire of saying, is what has turned me right off their demographic), in persisting in putting their settlements in such disputed territory in order to make unnecessary political points, when there was plenty of land available elsewhere which they could equally well have settled without such alienatory destructiveness of decent ordinary people's welfare & livelihoods [I'm back to those intensely symbolic olive trees -- sorry, but they are a bit of a thing of mine!].

However, maybe 'apartheid' is a bit of an over-emotional locution due to its S African origins and history. I can't feel the Israeli actions, deplorable as they are, are quite deserving of such an intensely loaded term, with its overtones & associations of political assassination, gross overuse of capital punishment, and intense exploitation, oppression and deprivation of rights. As with 'Nazi', its use strikes me of being in danger of appearing as counterproductive overstatement. They are thoroughly objectionable indeed: but Netenyahu is not, surely, quite in the Hitler, or even the Malan, league of objectionability!

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 10:54 AM

Jim, your man Goodman is quite clear that the "apartheid" jibe is completely undeserved, and he should know.

He understands that it is a lie, cynically told for the political aim of de-legitimising Israel.

You were right to post it and hopefully it means that you are starting to see through the propaganda at last.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 03:28 PM

"Jim, your man Goodman is quite clear that the "apartheid" jibe is completely undeserved, and he should know."
For a start , itisn't a "jibe2 - it is now recurring description of what is happening in Israel; Goodman's article was an acknowledgement of that fact.
What he claims is his opinion, as a supporter of Israel - he went out of his way to make that clear
Unlike you, I do not hide behind the opinions of others but try to understand the facts for myself, which in this case are indisputable because they confirm everything said of Israel elsewhere (which you have denied) and because Goodman (as a supporter of Israel), has no reason to make anything up.
"However, maybe 'apartheid' is a bit of an over-emotional locution due to its S African origins and history"
Apartheid is the term now being used inside and outside Israel to describe what is happening there, I first came across it in an article in Haaretz. As I understand the term, it simply means 'separate development - that was Smutt's intention when he introduced it in South Africa - what happened there was a consequence of Apartheid.
Tis is exactly what is happening in Israel; the forcible separation of Jews and non-Jews, mass eviction of whole cultures, forcible seizure of territory in order to build single-culture cultures - last year saw one of the most iconic forms - segregated transport in some areas.
What Goodman described was Apartheid, whether he accepts that it is that is totally immaterial.
The deliberate moving about of people in order to create a single culture state is classic Apartheid - the consequences may not have reached the level they did in South Africa, but they will if it is allowed to continue.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Mar 14 - 03:36 PM

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-dugard/post_356_b_258206.html
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 01:22 PM

So now the U.S. is about to release Johnathan Pollard, traitor and spy, as part of a "deal" which does not prevent Israel from creating more "settlements" in the occupied territories.

Way to go, USA! USA! Let the government of Israel lead you around by the nose, while continuing to villify Edward Snowden.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 14 - 09:31 PM

Singling out one country is bigotry.

Singling out a country for discussion in a thread on an internet forum is singling out a country for discussion in a thread on an internet forum. Having a strongly critical view of a country is not in itself bigotry. Holding (and expressing aloud) a strongly critical view of a country based on the fact that you don't like the people there (even though you know very few of them), or falsely think that the country is a breeding ground for terrorists, or follows a religion you don't like, or eats food you hate, or wears funny headgear that makes you think they're all the Taliban, or for any other unsupportable reason based on ignorance, could well be bigotry. But to put a country in the spotlight because it does things that a lot of thinking people regard as controversial is not bigotry. Any bigotry comes out in the conversation, not in the concept of the discussion. People who too readily cry "bigot" are generally insecure and in possession of weak argument. If the cap fits...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:49 AM

What if the country is surrounded by worse ones who never get singled out?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:55 AM

"What if the country is surrounded by worse ones who never get singled out?"
Makes 'em as bad as one another, should it prove to be the case - can't think of another Apartheid regime since White South Africa shuffled off its mortal coil.
One human rights criminal does not excuse another
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:05 AM

Just a refresher of your take on human rights
Me "The dropping of a bomb on a crowded town in order to kill a terrorist suspected of living there IS AN ACT OF TERROR"
You "No. It is not".
Jim Carroll
ISRAEL'S CURRENT HUMAN RIGHTS RECORD

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:45 AM

Singling out one country again.
Why do you never single out, say, Syria?
Next door and worse in every way.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 05:11 AM

"Singling out one country again."
Read the thread title - Israel/Palestine
Nice to see you comparing Israeli war crimes with Syria though
Next door is no worse or better than Israeli at the moment and your openly defending terrorist acts against civilians doesn't put you in any position to make judgements on either.
"Me "The dropping of a bomb on a crowded town in order to kill a terrorist suspected of living there IS AN ACT OF TERROR"
You "No. It is not".
Have a good day
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 05:17 AM

I am aware of the title Jim, but Steve raised the issue of singling out one country for criticism while carefully avoiding others.

Re. your quotes of us.
Can you show them in context please, or give a link so they can be seen in context.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 05:43 AM

"The murder of Rabin was not terrorism and nothing to do with the government of Israel."
The murder of Rabin was carried out by an Israeli terrorist - an act of terrorism.
It was deliberately provoked by mass meetings called by Extremist Rabbis and supported by thousands - an open incitement to terrorism.
Not one of those who organised or spoke at those meetings have been arrested or called to answer the crime that they were actually filmed at - State collusion in terrorism.
"No, unless Obama is a terrorist too."
A moot point - the US at Falujah, Afghanistan and Viet-Nam (and name any state where the CIA has operated) regularly used terror tactics.
The imprisonment and torture of suspects, keeping them in cages for years on end and failing to charge them with any crime are all acts of terror and are recognised as such.
The dropping of a bomb on a crowded town in order to kill a terrorist suspected of living there IS AN ACT OF TERROR
The sanctioning of the murder of two kidnappers (one of them was kicked to death by soldiers) is an act of terror.
This is a bizarre defence of terrorist atrocities, even by your standards.
Jim Carroll

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Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 14 May 13 - 03:22 PM

The dropping of a bomb on a crowded town in order to kill a terrorist suspected of living there IS AN ACT OF TERROR
No. It is not.
The six say that it is counter-productive for Israel.
You and I might think they are right, but it is not terrorism.
Terrorism is what the Palestinians do- killing civilians deliberately and for no other reason than to terrorise civilians.

The Boston bombs were planted by Americans.
It would be misleading to call that American terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:02 AM

Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 14 May 13 - 02:38 PM

The deliberate dropping of a bomb in the middle of a town, knowing there were bound to be many casualties was to sanction deliberate 'collateral damage'.

No, unless Obama is a terrorist too.
The terrorists are legitimate targets and can be attacked if you make every effort to avoid or minimise collateral casualties.
Israel has always done that.

The murder of Rabin was not terrorism and nothing to do with the government of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:16 AM

Now, the stoning to death of 'adultresses' [ie any women who put it about, even if married, if it is not to a man approved by the family or the authorities], the public caning of 100 strokes on the bare bottom for any woman who dresses 'immodestly' or exchanges a word with any man she's not related to, the hanging of any who choose to convert to any other religion, &c &c &c --

are NOT "acts of terrorism"; they are just the law as it stands in eg Saudi, Morocco, Algeria, Yemen, other Muslim entities thereabouts. No wonder any Arabs who can manage it would rather live in Israel; even if they do, admittedly [& this is not to justify the fact, simply to describe the situation as is] get apartheided; which I agree they shouldn't & the Israelis have got plenty more land that they could settle without having to steal people's homes & ruin their crops & livelihood; & I agree they are just being bloody awkward 'becoz they can'!

& we've done all this before like a bloody old-style stylus stuck in a groove...

But it depends what one wants to "single out" states & regional entities FOR, dunnit? Eh, Jim?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:42 AM

"No, unless Obama is a terrorist too."
America regularly commits acts of terrorism and has been exposed for having done so often.
Dropping bombs on occupied (in the case of market places, crowded areas, in order to kill SUSPECTED terrorists" is an act of inhuman terrorism - just as much as planting a car bomb is.
America has defended it by inventing the term "collateral damage" - it is an act of terror
No human being (outside of politics) would dream of defending it - but you don't fit that category.
"But it depends what one wants to "single out" states & regional entities FOR, dunnit? Eh, Jim?"
Been there- done that Mike.
You are sinking to Keith's and Bruce's level by defending one terrorist state by pointing to another as an excuse - I was beginning to think you were better than that - it seems not.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:16 AM

By the way - one of the persistent acts of terror the US has been accused of is the indiscriminate use of drones in built up ares.
If you open the link that you have bee given, "Israel's Human Rights Record" you will see that Human Rights Watch is accusing Israel of the same act of terror
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:26 AM

No, Jim: no 'excuse' involved. I excuse nothing of the apartheid activities, which are otiose as well as unjust, & of the existence of which I make no denial. Simply pointing out that there may be more grounds than one for "singling-out"; you, being a political sort of guy, single out the political malefactions; but they are not the only sort which warrant the activity. I explicitly said that doesn't make anything else OK, and you are being unjustly and unintelligently disputative in pretending that you thought that I thought it did. You accused me of "defending one terrorist state by pointing to another as an excuse" - when I had stated in as many words that the states I rubricated were NOT terrorist states in any sense, in respect of the shortcomings I was enumerating, but ones with most defective legal & judicial systems; to which we turn a blind eye coz we need their oil; and anyhow, it's their cultcher innit? Can you not see that your attitude to these abuses is nothing but "Oh well, they are only ......s, so what can you expect?" Search out the implications of that for yourself, why don't you?

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 07:29 AM

Steve raised the issue of singling out one country for criticism while carefully avoiding others.

This is a complete misrepresentation of what I said. I said nothing about "carefully avoiding others". In fact, I never defend breaches of human rights, even in countries I might support in other ways (I actually support Israel's right to exist in peace and I have a lot of sympathy for ordinary Israelis, and I've said these things here on a number of occasions). If you want to start a thread singling out another country for the spotlight, go ahead. I'll join in, if I know enough.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:36 AM

This is a discussion about what is happening in Israel/Palestine Mike - I responded to Keith's attempts to defend Israel's behaviour.
I have always condemned all religious - or any other form of terrorism, though I am often accuse of defending Islamist behaviour - I don't.
At the moment the Middle Est has a slim chance of resolving some of the problems - Israel continues to put that at risk - that is the matter under discussion.
I am equally at Egypt's mass condemning to death the opposition of the rebel opposition there (can't remember the exact number), but this in no way impinges on the discussion in hand, despite Keith's permanent efforts to use it as a defence of Israeli terrorism.
As far as the rest of the world - Israel has nuclear capability, which fills me with horror, as does the fact that Iran has as well - but on the other hand, so has the U.S. - god help us all!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:36 AM

This is a discussion about what is happening in Israel/Palestine Mike - I responded to Keith's attempts to defend Israel's behaviour.
I have always condemned all religious - or any other form of terrorism, though I am often accuse of defending Islamist behaviour - I don't.
At the moment the Middle Est has a slim chance of resolving some of the problems - Israel continues to put that at risk - that is the matter under discussion.
I am equally at Egypt's mass condemning to death the opposition of the rebel opposition there (can't remember the exact number), but this in no way impinges on the discussion in hand, despite Keith's permanent efforts to use it as a defence of Israeli terrorism.
As far as the rest of the world - Israel has nuclear capability, which fills me with horror, as does the fact that Iran has as well - but on the other hand, so has the U.S. - god help us all!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:45 AM

No matter what the subject...

Tell you what Keith, at least you are consistent....








I've found the link. Any subject upon which his ignorance shines like a beacon.   The normal, want to get on with their lives cosmopolitan western minded people of both sides shake their heads slowly when they hear the talking heads Keith seems to admire and copy.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 09:49 AM

?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:38 PM

Too many big words Muskie, too many big words.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:38 PM

Too many big words Muskie, too many big words.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 02:51 PM

"Every country has a few fanatical racists.
Why, in your first sentence, single out Israel?"

In a thread specifically about Israeli/Palestinian relations, why d'ye think?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 03:00 PM

"Because frankly, I doubt there is a single Palestinian in the Levant or North Africa who wouldn't swap places with an Arab-Israeli in a heart beat."

And the Palestinians you studiously avoid mentioning, in Gaza and the West Bank?

How many of them see any possibility of being treated as human beings, let alone equals?

I'll save you the trouble.............NONE!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:24 PM

Oh look another Jew hating Brit spewing lies and demonizing Israel, what a surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:45 PM

Oh look - another Anti-Semite blaming Jews for the Crimes committed by the Israeli regime - no surprise there
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 04:47 PM

Oh look another Jew hating Brit spewing lies and demonizing Israel, what a surprise.

You really are an incredibly vile person, aren't you. Right up there with creationist pete and homophobe Ake and revisionist-denier Keith. A despicable comment from a despicable man. Unless you're a woman. How would I know. Scum. C'mon, give us some more of your obnoxious bile and I'll tell you what I really think.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 05:08 PM

You really are an incredibly vile person, aren't you. Right up there with creationist pete and homophobe Ake and revisionist-denier Keith. A despicable comment from a despicable [prson]. Scum.

Amen, times two. Or, times ten.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 05:22 PM

And it's cheering section shows up right on cue.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 05:49 PM

So BooBad, aside from the usual apologetic bullshit exempting the Israeli government from the strictures you apply to the rest of the world, what have you got to say?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:33 PM

I have nothing to say to sanctimonious, opinionated, holier-than-thou self-satisfied assholes that I haven't said a hundred times before BUT I will call out hatred and lies and demonization of Jews (and anyone else for that matter) when I see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 06:52 PM

As I thought, BooBad - nothing but empty platitudes and bullshit.

Thanks for confirming it!

Regards, G.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 14 - 08:30 PM

BUT I will call out hatred and lies and demonization of Jews (and anyone else for that matter) when I see it.

Then tell us exactly where you've seen it, you squiffy little arsehole. Come along now, no more pissing around. Chapter and verse if you don't mind, and do spare us the loose, unfocused venom. Otherwise, why don't you bloody well just shut your ugly face. Permanently, preferably. Backwoodsman-gits like you are precisely what's wrong with this board, and I don't give a monkey's bloody mickey whether or not our timid mods agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 04:28 AM

"BUT I will call out hatred and lies and demonization of Jews "
Sure you will - you Anti-Semitic scum have developed a stance of skulking behind six million dead to make your Zionist case.
These are ISRAELI crimes war crimes and human rights abuses, not, as you insist JEWISH
I would have thought the Jews of this world had quite enough to contend with lareeady without having to defend themselves from accusations of crimes such as the mass-murder of refugees at Sabra/Shatila.
Israeli - not Jewish.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 06:11 AM

Who says they have committed war crimes?
Any decent governments?
Name one.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:06 AM

This was a thread about hope, the hope for a peaceful settlement of the differences between the Jews and the Palestinians. It remained fairly positive until the usual coterie of haters arrived. They don't ever pass up the opportunity to pollute a thread with their bile, do they.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:14 AM

Since many here single out Israel as the ONLY regime that commits such terrible crimes, I will presume that if Israel were to adopt the LAWS that are in place in such enlightened countries as Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, et al, with respect to the non-majority religious groups.

Will that make them happy?






Ask any Ba"hai about it...

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:23 AM

Since many here single out Israel as the ONLY regime that commits such terrible crimes

I'm not aware of one single person here who has done this.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:27 AM

Then you have missed a number of post about Israel being the ONLY "apartheid" regime left in the world-



No mention of LAWS in Saudi Arabia prohibiting freedom of worship ( as in many other Arab Muslim nations) or the ones in Jordan ( SINCE 1924, when it became the PALESTINIAN MUSLIM HOMELAND portion of Mandate Palestine) prohibiting citizenship to Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 07:48 AM

If that post is supposed to be a response to mine, it hasn't really done the trick, has it? You're just flapping around. No substance. If you make an accusation you should be prepared to support it. Now do tell us who here has singled out Israel in the way you described. Quotes from posts would be good, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:00 AM

"This was a thread about hope, the hope for a peaceful settlement of the differences between the Jews and the Palestinians"
No it wasn't - it was a comment on the fact that Israel has all but scuppered those hopes by its aggressively predatory behaviour in the Midle East - keep up Booboo - Yogi would strongly disapprove.
Sheesh!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:10 AM

Jim Carroll has stated this on numerous threads, numerous times. Ask him.

I state that you missed or ignored those posts. - Or that you are not telling the truth about not seeing them-

YOU pick out the truth. I do not claim to know what YOU pay attention to.



My point is that the countries in that region have a far worse record of treatment of minorities and women, IN THEIR LAWS, and there is no complaint- Just against Israel for it's admittedly less than perfect implementation of its far more acceptable laws.

I was prohibited from working in Saudi Arabia BECAUSE of my religion.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:23 AM

"My point is that the countries in that region have a far worse record of treatment of minorities and women"
Your point is irrelevant - this thread is entitled "Small hope for Israel/Palestine" - you want to talk about another topic altogether, go open another thread
Your point isn't even thread-drift - it is an entirely different subject
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 03 Apr 14 - 08:29 AM

I disagree. Palestinians have been treated poorly by those nations, and Jordan is the Palestinian ARB MUSLIM HOMELAND created from the Mandate Palestine territory. If the laws against Jews there are not fair, why should Israel ( the Jewish Homeland of the Mandate Palestine) be forced to treat Muslims any better ( though they do) ?