BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 07:44 AM

"Too many Palestinians are imprisoned in Israel today. This is done in the name of Zionism."
.,,.

Not sure in what sense the term "Zionism" is being used here; or in this thread generally.

"Zionism" was the name of an idealistic/political movement among world Jewry, from late C19 up to the declaration of the state of Israel in 1948, dedicated to the establishment of a Jewish State in the territory of the ancient Mount Zion and the land of which it formed the symbolic centre, known at the time generally as Palestine. With the 1948 establishment of the state of Israel, the term, and the movement it designated, became a dead letter as its purposes had been fulfilled.

It seems now to have been resuscitated as a synonym for the accusations of militant territorialism on Israel's part which have been rubricated by such authorities as the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (now Fundamental Rights Agency), as a mask and cover for antisemitism, plain & simple. I have already pointed out to Jim the unwisdom of using the term, which he has accordingly forsworn; and would draw the possible ideological and other misunderstandings, liable to arise due to the using this obsolete but emotively used term, to the attention of Stringsinger & others.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 08:29 AM

Israeli forces have been filmed beating up an American citizen - the cousin of the murdered Palestinian boy
ROUGH "JUSTICE"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 14 - 12:37 PM

Just shows that Israel is democratic and equal opportunity, Jim. They'll beat up anyone regardless of race, creed, or national origin.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 01:48 AM

Surprised that no-one has seen fit to mention that Israeli police have made arrests in connection with the murder of Mohamed Abu Khdeir:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/06/israel-arrests-abu-khdeir-killing

Now how is the Palestine Authority investigation into the kidnap and murder of the three Israeli youngsters progressing?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 02:15 AM

"They'll beat up anyone regardless of race, creed, or national origin."
Bit more selective than that - they haven't much of a track record of sending tanks into Israeli communities and settlements and dropping white phosphorous on their schools and bulldozing their homes into the ground.
"Israeli police have made arrests"
New news totally devoid of detail here.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 08:59 AM

Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon condemned on Sunday the brutal kidnapping-murder last week of Palestinian teen Muhammed Abu Khdeir by suspected Jewish terrorists, saying the suspects would be treated as severely as Arab terrorists.

"I am embarrassed and horrified at the cruel murder of the young Muhammed Abu Khdeir," Ya'alon said in a statement posted to his Facebook page on Sunday evening.

"These debased murderers don't represent the Jewish people or its values, and they must be treated as terrorists," the defense minister said. "We will not allow Jewish terrorists from our midst to disrupt the fabric of the many different communities in the state of Israel, and to harm innocents just because they are Arabs."

"We must battle the perpetrators [of such actions], and those who deploy them, with an iron fist."

Read more: Defense minister calls for Jewish killers to be treated as terrorists | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/defense-minister-calls-for-jewish-killers-to-be-treated-as-terrorists/#ixzz36mrVRFbi

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 09:07 AM

A ray of sunshine peeking through the dark storm clouds, this is how peace is made:

The families of murdered Israeli teen Naftali Fraenkel and murdered Palestinian teen Mohammed Abu Khdeir are drawing comfort from an unexpected source: each other... ... The Palestinian visitors also mentioned an initiative spearheaded by Jews and Muslims to transform July 15, the Jewish fast day known as 17 Tammuz, into a joint fast day for people of both religions who wish to express their desire to end violence in the region.

http://forward.com/articles/201500/families-of-slain-israeli-and-palestinian-teens-tu/#ixzz36kUKrbgd

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 11:15 AM

Dr.Tawfik Hamid is an Islamic thinker and reformer and one time Islamic extremist from Egypt. He was a member of a terrorist Islamic organization, J.I., with Dr.Ayman Al-Zawaherri who later became second-in-command of Al-Qaeda. Some twenty five years ago he recognized the threat of Radical Islam and a need for reformation based upon a modern, peaceful interpretation of classical Islamic core texts.

Dr.Tawfik Hamid: stop exploiting Palestine as wedge against Jewish Israel

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 01:05 PM

"Now how is the Palestine Authority investigation into the kidnap and murder of the three Israeli youngsters progressing?"

Since the Palestinian police force, whatever it is, is not allowed to have any teeth or ability
that contradicts Israeli occupation, it is being suppressed by Israel. That's how it's going.

The reordering of religious holidays does not address the fundamental issue that the two religions are diametrically opposed. Judaism and Islam are religious enemies.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 02:32 PM

If the Prime Minister of Israel describes the murder of an Arab child as terrorism, if the Defense Minister describes the murder of an Arab child as terrorism, if the Ministry of Foreign Affairs describes the murder of an Arab child as terrorism, then it is terrorism.
No denial, no hiding. Address it. Get rid of it!

Netanyahu: We Don't Differentiate Between Arab, Jewish Terror

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 05:45 PM

Take a look at how the Palestinian propaganda machine fans the flames of Jew hatred by playing to the antiSemites and their useful idiots: BBC News

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Jul 14 - 09:11 PM

"It is manifestly right that the Jews, who are scattered all over the world, should have a national center and a National Home where some of them may be reunited. And where else could that be but in the land of Palestine, with which for more than 3,000 years they have been intimately and profoundly associated?"

Winston Churchill - Champion of Liberty, Scourge of Fascism

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Jul 14 - 01:48 AM

Stringsinger your post throws up two interesting points:

1: "Since the Palestinian police force, whatever it is, is not allowed to have any teeth or ability
that contradicts Israeli occupation, it is being suppressed by Israel. That's how it's going."

Could you please explain to us all how and why the Israelis would hamper the efforts of the Palestinian law enforcement agencies to bring to justice the killers of three Jewish teenagers? I would have thought that they would be providing all the assistance that they could possibly give, wouldn't you?

2: "The reordering of religious holidays does not address the fundamental issue that the two religions are diametrically opposed. Judaism and Islam are religious enemies."

The fact is that every other religion in the world as well as every atheist and agnostic in the world have been declared the enemy of Islam. The converse is not true.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Jul 14 - 02:22 AM

"Winston Churchill - Champion of Liberty, Scourge of Fascism"
So, the butcher of Tonypandy said it - it must be true.
TONYPANDY
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Jul 14 - 04:39 AM

Priceless Christmas - absolutely priceless:

"Winston Churchill - the butcher of Tonypandy" - According to Christmas

Did you actually read that link? Get to bit at the end when it stated that the fact of the matter was that "not a shot was fired or a sabre drawn" - So then Christmas who was butchered? By whom? And how?

Yet another one of your Myths exploded Christmas, if nothing else your time on this forum can only be viewed as educational.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Ringer
Date: 08 Jul 14 - 07:10 AM

"Since the Palestinian police force, whatever it is, is not allowed to have any teeth or ability that contradicts Israeli occupation, it is being suppressed by Israel."

Israeli occupation? What or where is Israel occupying?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 03:23 AM

" "not a shot was fired or a sabre drawn""
Hundreds of miners were injured and one was killed - self-harm perhaps Trooper Tommy?
BBC
More than 800 people were injured during the lockout.
Feckin wannabe soldier
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 07:51 AM

"According to the Israeli Defense Forces, 40 percent of the Israeli population is now within firing range of Hamas rockets. Residents in the south of Israel have been warned to stay within a short distance of bomb shelters ta all times. Once an air siren goes off, residents have only fifteen seconds to reach a shelter.

Since Operation Pillar of Defense in 2012, during which Israel attacked Hamas in response to rocket fire against Israeli civilians, the terrorist organization Hamas has added over 10,000 rockets and missiles. Hamas produces some of these rockets in Gaza, but most come from Iran. The rockets have a 75 kilometer radius, and threaten 3.5 million Israelis."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 09:34 AM

Take it we've finished wit me and Hamas
Don't suppose an apology is forthcoming - thought not!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 09:37 AM

Waiting on YOUR payment of that donation to FSGW.


Still.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 02:58 PM

"Waiting on YOUR payment of that donation to FSGW."
You have yet to show my supporting terrorism any more than the Israeli Government has by holding peace talks with the Palestinians
You appear to share Keith's talent of lying in public and not being embarrassed when caught out.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 09 Jul 14 - 03:02 PM

I have shown that Israel dOES NOT negotiate with HAMAS.


I have shown that YOU demand that Israel negotiate with the present Palestinian government of Gaza, IE HAMAS.


If you don't understand this difference, then you really do think that all Arabs look alike.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 02:28 AM

"I have shown that Israel dOES NOT negotiate with HAMAS."
And I have shown that nobody is asking them to, and never has.
If you believe that negotiating with the Palestinians is equivalent to negotiating with Hamas and is a betrayal of the Jewish people, count the number of times Israel has participated in peace talks with the Palestinians and you will have arrived at a total of how many times Israel has betrayed the Jewish people.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 07:37 AM

Jim,

You rally need to read your OWN posts.


YOU state above:
""I have shown that Israel dOES NOT negotiate with HAMAS."
And I have shown that nobody is asking them to, and never has."


But in the Caliphate thread, YOU state:
"Even Israel's strongest ally, the United States, declared that she Israel's behaviour was the direct cause of scuppering the last on - not Hamas."

So Israel was being asked to negotiate with Hamas, without Hamas changing their statement of destroying Israel, killing Jews, and never negotiating in good faith.


If this is not stating that SOMEONE is asking them to negotiate with Hamas, I think there is no purpose to any further debate- There can be no agreement on reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 07:47 AM

Most people in Gaza do not support Hamas, they are a terrorist organization who came to power in Gaza by lining up and shooting all their rivals including the legitimate security forces of the PA who were supposed to be running Gaza.

They run a North Korea style regime over Gaza which they unlawfully occupy, in which a person who lives there can get killed for even making a Facebook post critical of the Hamas regime. They are intimidating the local population into obedience and the local population is afraid to revolt against their brutal regime.

They are the reason why Gaza has poor relations with both of it's neighbors, Israel and Egypt and why those two borders are sealed. They routinely initiate violent attacks against the Israeli civilian population in order to incur Israeli responses and generate civilian casualties among the people of Gaza so that they can create the illusion of 'protecting' the population of Gaza against the 'occupier' Israel who had in reality left the territory 9 years ago, while they in fact occupy Gaza though violent intimidation of the local population.

Israel must liberate the good people of Gaza and free them from the tyranny of their oppressors. They must enact a total regime change in Gaza and replace Hamas with a locally elected government of Gazans for Gazans to run their daily affairs.

Israel must, after it has removed the tyrannical Hamas regime, make serious investments in the infrastructure and quality of life for the people in Gaza, they are going to need to provide a high level of service for the people in Gaza such that they would never say that 'things were better with Hamas in charge', Israel can make things a million times better for the people in Gaza and it must commit itself to doing so, so that Gaza can be a sustainable, self sufficient and functioning territory regardless of what state in the region it ultimately becomes a part of.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 08:04 AM

An Israeli Muslim Arab has written to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stressing that if the Jewish state truly wants peace, it must remove from power the terror groups that current hold sway over the Palestinian population, and instead deal directly with average Arabs who just want to live quietly.

In a post on his Facebook page, Ali Shaban, who volunteered for combat service in the IDF and continues to do reserve duty to this day, urged Netanyahu to "act now, do not waver or fear. The Palestinians understand only force, and if you do not attack now, then you and me and all Israelis will pay a dear price."

This Muslim's recommendation? "Conquer Gaza. Conquer the West Bank. Overthrow Hamas and [Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas'] Fatah. Establish and support a new leadership for the Palestinian people, a leadership that will seek peace and a better life for us all."

Israeli Muslim: We Must Destroy Hamas

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 08:50 AM

I spent hours yesterday morning and afternoon trying to convince my main Hamas contact to speak to his leaders to call for an immediately unconditional 24 hour ceasefire in order to prevent the escalation. My message made it all the way up to Khaled Mashal. I wanted to try to prevent the inevitable death of innocent people and the destruction that this war would cause.

The Hamas leadership decided to ignore the possibility of the ceasefire and challenged Israel to "bring it on". These irresponsible leaders are criminals to their own people. I can honestly say that Netanyahu did not want to escalate this war. It is so unfortunate that these Hamas leaders, some sitting in hotel abroad and others safely hiding underground in Gaza put the innocent people of Gaza in the direct line of fire. This is criminal.

Force alone will never be a proper response to the problems of human suffering. Israel had to respond with force, I am sorry to say, but Israel must also present a plan for addressing the real and urgent human needs of the 1.7 million people in Gaza, or else this ongoing war never end.

Gershon Baskin

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 11:39 AM

Whatever their failings, (I am certainly no supporter) Hamas stands between Israeli and total annihilation of their own people.
Protests about the rockets echo faintly next to the blockade, the bombardments that are now taking place, chemical weapons, the destruction of homes..... not to mention the massacre of 30,500 refugees - to put it completely in context.
Terrorism is a movable feast when it comes to warfare.
The State of Israel only came into existence due to acts of terrorism- now proud moments in Israel's history.
America has adopted terrorist tactics in the Middle East, South East Asia and South America in order to crush Governments it didn't approve of.
Nelson Mandela was "a terrorist" - I know because that nice Mrs Thatcher told me so.
Today's terrorist is quite often tomorrow's national hero.
Whatever the rights and wrongs of terrorism, Palestinian rockets stand small next to Israel's past and present terrorism.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 12:00 PM

Sounds like you support Hamas to me.



I guess violation of the Geneva Conventions, both in attacking civilians with anti-personnel rockets, and in launching those rockets from civilian areas such as homes, apartments, schools and hospitals, in order to inflict civilian casualties on their own population is what you support- Hamas is just your preferred method.

Civilian blood is on YOUR hands, Jim Carroll.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 12:56 PM

UNITED NATIONS, N.Y. — Evidence that Hamas is firing more sophisticated weapons at Israel – including longer-range rockets – than in past conflicts is focusing a new light on Iran's role in arming the militant organization.

As Israel is contending with rockets launched from Hamas-controlled Gaza that are reaching deeper into its territory, a classified United Nations Security Council report concludes that a shipment of weapons intercepted by Israel on a cargo boat in the Red Sea last March originated in the Iranian port of Bandar Abbas.

At the time, Iranian officials denied any knowledge of the arms, which were found in 20 crates buried under bags of cement. Iran is barred from exporting weaponry under an arms embargo approved by the Security Council in 2007.

The captain of the ship, the Klos-C, was questioned by Israeli authorities. The Security Council report apparently does not establish the ultimate destination of the arms shipment, but the method of using building materials to cover over arms shipments has been used in the past to smuggle arms into Gaza.

But one reason the arms shipment – and the Security Council Sanctions Committee's report on it – are drawing interest now is that under the bags of cement and among thousands of rounds of ammunition were tucked several dozen M-302 rockets. It's the same longer-range, larger-payload rocket that Israel reports has been fired from Gaza in the current fighting.

On Wednesday, Israeli officials said an M-302 rocket landed outside the city of Hadera, about 70 miles north of Gaza. Rockets have also reached the greater Tel Aviv area, officials said. The M-302 has a range of about 115 miles.

The findings of the Security Council's Sanctions Committee, first reported by The Wall Street Journal, would constitute more than just a black eye for Iran. The arms shipment would be a violation of a Security Council resolution, an act that could subject Iran to council action.

On Wednesday, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon's spokesman, Stephane Dujarric, placed responsibility for the report with the Security Council and said it would be up to that body to take any further action.

"These reports are done by independent experts hired by the Sanctions Committee," Mr. Dujarric said, adding that it's "up to the Security Council to address the findings of these reports."

Asked if Mr. Ban has seen the report, he said, "That's what I have for you on that."

Evidence of Iran arming the region's anti-Israel militant organizations is nothing new. But the Security Council report comes just as some Western powers, including the US, have suggested they could be open to wider cooperation with Tehran on how to respond to turmoil in Iraq and the recent advances made there by the Islamist extremist group the Islamist State of Iraq and the Levant, or ISIS.

Israeli officials say the goal of their military operation in Gaza is to destroy as much as possible of the military infrastructure and arms supplies that Hamas has built up since a cease-fire went into effect in 2012.

Hamas is estimated to have about 10,000 rockets – including perhaps several dozen M-302 rockets – an arsenal that some Israeli experts say Hamas was able to build up as a result of good relations with the Muslim Brotherhood government that ruled in Egypt from 2012 until mid-2013. But now that government is gone, buoying Israeli confidence that it can seriously degrade the Hamas arsenal.

Still, the amount and increased sophistication of the accumulated armaments is part of the reason Israeli officials say the ongoing operation won't be over soon.

"This isn't going to be a short mission," Israeli military spokeswoman Libby Weiss said this week. "It's not going to be one night and done."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:01 PM

It takes someone with a sick and twisted mind and an obsessive hatred of Jews to call self-defense terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:05 PM

Jim has always told us that Jews do not have the right to defend themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:11 PM

"It takes someone with a sick and twisted mind and an obsessive hatred of Jews to call self-defense terrorism."
Just watching the Palestinian casualties being carried on stretchers
Terrorism against civilians it is.
"Jim has always told us that Jews do not have the right to defend themselves."
I have never told anybody anything of the sort - show me where
Slaughtering civilians is not self-defence it is simple murder.
If it is, the slaughter of the occupants of Lidice can only be considered "self defence"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:18 PM

Jim,

AIMING at the launch site of an (illegal) rocket and trying to destroy the launcher IS SELF DEFENSE-

IT IS A WAR CRIME to PLACE that launcher in a civilian locale, as well as launching those rockets AT A CIVILIAN POPULATION as Hamas has been doing.

YOU are saying that Jews cannot defend themselves LEGALLY while you keep silent on the WAR CRIMES being committed by your friends in Hamas.

This is anti-Semitism AS DEFINED BY THE EU.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:20 PM

The BLOOD of those civilians, both Israeli AND PALESTINIAN, is on YOUR hands for your support of Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:26 PM

The IDF is giving advance warning of it's strikes. Hamas is telling the people to stay put and to bring their children to act as shields. Those who blame Israel for civilian deaths are suffering from pathological hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:31 PM

Jim,

I note you have NEVER asked that Hamas stop firing at civilians.


Of course, lots of those civilians are just Jews, so we can't expect YOU to think they are human beings.



"Military spokesman Lt. Col. Peter Lerner said Israel struck more than 320 Hamas targets overnight, focusing on underground tunnel networks and rocket launching sites. In all, the military has struck 750 sites since the offensive began on Tuesday.

Israel has mobilized 20,000 reservists for a possible ground operation into Gaza, but for the time remains focused on maximizing its air campaign, Lerner said. A ground invasion could lead to heavier civilian casualties on the Palestinian side and put Israeli ground forces in danger.

Neither side is showing any sign of halting their heaviest fighting since an eight-day battle in late 2012. Israel says that Hamas must cease rocket fire from Gaza for Israel to consider a truce. Militants have fired hundreds of rockets, striking across the length of Israel and disrupting life across the country."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:35 PM

According to many critics, Israel is slaughtering civilians in Gaza. It's "purposefully wiping out entire families," says an Arab member of Israel's parliament. It's committing "genocide—the murder of entire families," says Mahmoud Abbas, the president of the Palestinian Authority. Iran says Israel has committed "massacres against the defenseless Palestinians."

The charges are false. By the standards of war, Israel's efforts to spare civilians have been exemplary.

Israel didn't choose this fight. Hamas and Islamic Jihad, the terrorist organizations that dominate Gaza, claim that Israel provoked the conflict by arresting Hamas members in the
West Bank. But arrests in one territory don't justify aerial bombardment from another. Israel didn't hit Gaza until terrorists had fired more than 150 rockets into Israel and had rejected a cease-fire.

Slate

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:40 PM

The worst civilian death toll—seven, at the latest count—occurred in a strike on the Khan Yunis home of a terrorist commander. Hamas calls it a "massacre against women and children." But residents say the family got both a warning call and a knock on the roof. An Israeli security official says Israeli forces didn't fire their missile until the family had left the house. The official didn't understand why some members of the family, and apparently their neighbors, went back inside. The residents say they were trying to "form a human shield."

Ibid

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 01:42 PM

anyone concerned about the deliberate targeting of civilians in this conflict should first look at Hamas. The rocket fire from Gaza into Israel began well before the Israeli assault on Gaza. Initially, the rockets were Islamic Jihad's idea. But in the last few days, Hamas has joined in with gusto, claiming credit for missiles fired at several Israeli cities, including Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, and Haifa.

Apologists for Hamas argue that its weapons are less precise than Israel's, so collateral damage is inevitable. That won't wash. Hamas now has longer-range missiles, known as M-302s or R-160s, that are more precise than its clumsy old Grad rockets. It has been firing the new missiles at cities anyway. Hamas has also flatly rejected the principle of sparing civilians. According to a Hamas spokesman, "All Israelis have now become legitimate targets."

I've criticized Israel for demolishing the West Bank homes of suspected Arab terrorists. That policy is indefensible. But in the Gaza war, it's clear that Israel has gone to great lengths to minimize civilian deaths. The same can't be said of Hamas.

Ibid

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 02:42 PM

Jim,

You have stated you approval of the Hamas rockets, and declared that Israel does not have the right to attack those launchers (i.e., self-defense).

Look back at your own posts- Nothing but advocating terrorism and murder by YOU.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 02:53 PM

"Just watching the Palestinian casualties being carried on stretchers"


Who were killed BY HAMAS- They bear the legal responsibility according to the Geneva Conventions, which PROHIBIT

1. Area bombardment of civilian areas by anti-personnet weapons- BEING DONE ONLY BY HAMAS.
2. Siting of launch areas and military operations in civilian areas such as homes, apartments, schools, and hospitals -BEING DONE ONLY BY HAMAS.
3. Use of Human shields to purposely increase civilian casualties- DONE ONLY BY HAMAS.


And YOU criticize Israel, and keep silent about Hamas.- That makes you both bigot and an advocate of the murder of Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Jul 14 - 03:41 PM

"AIMING at the launch site of an (illegal) rocket and trying to destroy the launcher IS SELF DEFENSE-More or less what the Nazis said when they mudered 1 in ten of the citizens of Lidice.
"You have stated you approval of the Hamas rockets,"
Where?
All I have ever said is they are small potatoes compared to Israeli atrocities - I don't approve of them and never have
Try to produce a coupe of words that aren't a pathetically obvios lie - it can be very cathartic.
"Area bombardment of civilian areas by anti-personnet weapons-"
If that is the case - not what has just been shown on our television - it is a first for Israel, who have regarded hospitals and schools fair game for their bombe, particularly their chemicals
As for refugees and Bedouins - a national blood-sport.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 06:54 AM

"Area bombardment of civilian areas by anti-personnet weapons-"

The rockets launched by Hamas that you approve of ARE shown on TV, hitting Israel, or being intercepted.

You really are a shit for brains.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 08:15 AM

"Lerner said the military was doing its utmost to prevent civilian casualties, calling inhabitants ahead of time to warn of imminent attacks. He said Israeli forces also fire "non-explosive munitions" at roofs as a warning and looks for people to leave before destroying a structure.

Lerner blamed Hamas for the death of innocent bystanders by firing from heavily populated areas. Israel's military "uses its weapons to defend its civilians. Hamas uses its civilians to defend its weapons," he said."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 08:46 AM

Hamas spokesman calls on its people to act as human shields:

Hamas Spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri

Meanwhile you can sure that he and his fellow Hamas officials are safely ensconced and enjoying the luxuries gleaned from the world's and Israel's largesse.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 08:53 AM

"Lerner said the military was doing its utmost to prevent civilian casualties"
Sure he did !!
The Palsinian death count has reached over 100, overwhelmingly civilians and a large percentage of these children.
This isn't counting those who were killed and injured immediately following the kidnapping of the three boys.
It seems the Israelis are using this as an opportunity not to be missed
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 09:20 AM

Israel's military "uses its weapons to defend its civilians. Hamas uses its civilians to defend its weapons,"

So, Jim:

Name ONE Palestinian killed who was not
1. Firing on or attacking (Israeli ) forces
2. Being used as a human shield by Hamas
3. In an area that was a legitimate military target- i.e., near a launcher that Hamas had set up.
4. In the quarters or operations center of an (Hamas) military leader



Now, name ONE Israeli victim of Hamas in the last two years who was ANY of :

1. Firing on or attacking (Palestinian ) forces
2. Being used as a human shield by Hamas
3. In an area that was a legitimate military target- i.e., near a launcher that Hamas had set up.
4. In the quarters or operations center of an (Israeli) military leader


So Israel follows the Geneva conventions, and Hamas does not. Hamas goes out of it's way to violate those conventions, in order to maximize PALESTINIAN civilian casualties, AND YOU SUPPORT THAT.

If Israel was TRYING to kill Palestinians, they would just carpet bomb the entire Gaza strip- Like the Allies did to Germany.

If you cannot see that Israel is trying to reduce the Palestinian civilian casualties, and that Hamas is trying to increase them, you are not only blind and bigoted, you are an incredible fool.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 09:29 AM

JERUSALEM (AP) — Gaza health officials said Friday that strikes overnight killed a total of eight people, raising the death toll to at least 98. A later strike pushed the tally over 100 to go along with some 670 wounded, officials said.

Israeli leaders are mulling whether to launch a ground assault in Gaza.
During a ground incursion in early 2009, hundreds of civilians were killed and both sides drew war crimes accusations in a United Nations report.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Jul 14 - 10:37 AM

There are plenty of Palestinians who were victimized that were not firing on Israelis. Firing with what? Rocks and bottles? Ridiculous point.

Plenty of Israelis who consider themselves "victims" who have a policy of "collective punishment". Genocide in Gaza will not solve the problem.

Hamas is a reaction to Israel's oppression. "Collective punishment" is cruel, inhuman and against any treaty or protocol in Geneva or elsewhere.