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BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job

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Little Hawk 19 Jul 07 - 04:07 PM
pdq 19 Jul 07 - 04:09 PM
beardedbruce 19 Jul 07 - 04:15 PM
beardedbruce 19 Jul 07 - 04:30 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 04:30 PM
beardedbruce 19 Jul 07 - 04:33 PM
Don Firth 19 Jul 07 - 04:33 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 04:40 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 19 Jul 07 - 04:41 PM
beardedbruce 19 Jul 07 - 04:43 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 04:45 PM
Don Firth 19 Jul 07 - 04:49 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 04:51 PM
CarolC 19 Jul 07 - 04:58 PM
Little Hawk 19 Jul 07 - 05:00 PM
CarolC 19 Jul 07 - 05:00 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 05:01 PM
Little Hawk 19 Jul 07 - 05:03 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 05:04 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 05:05 PM
Little Hawk 19 Jul 07 - 05:06 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 05:07 PM
CarolC 19 Jul 07 - 05:11 PM
Ebbie 19 Jul 07 - 06:00 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 06:27 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 07:11 PM
Ebbie 19 Jul 07 - 07:16 PM
Donuel 19 Jul 07 - 08:05 PM
Don Firth 19 Jul 07 - 08:18 PM
Ebbie 19 Jul 07 - 08:20 PM
robomatic 19 Jul 07 - 08:29 PM
Peace 19 Jul 07 - 08:43 PM
catspaw49 19 Jul 07 - 08:44 PM
GUEST,sooo sweet 19 Jul 07 - 09:00 PM
Donuel 19 Jul 07 - 09:02 PM
GUEST,sooo sweet 19 Jul 07 - 09:04 PM
catspaw49 19 Jul 07 - 09:07 PM
GUEST,sooo sweet 19 Jul 07 - 09:13 PM
Donuel 19 Jul 07 - 09:21 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 19 Jul 07 - 09:59 PM
catspaw49 19 Jul 07 - 10:13 PM
Little Hawk 19 Jul 07 - 10:34 PM
CarolC 19 Jul 07 - 10:45 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 19 Jul 07 - 10:54 PM
CarolC 19 Jul 07 - 10:56 PM
GUEST,sooo sweet 19 Jul 07 - 10:58 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 19 Jul 07 - 11:00 PM
WFDU - Ron Olesko 19 Jul 07 - 11:05 PM
GUEST,sooo sweet 19 Jul 07 - 11:35 PM
Ebbie 20 Jul 07 - 12:04 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:07 PM

Dang! Missed it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: pdq
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:09 PM

The 9/11 conspiracy theories are a good example of the following:

                            "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed, and hence clamorous to be led to safety, by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."

                                                                                  ~   H.L. Mencken


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:15 PM

"Nonsense as a Weapon
An effective tool for reinforcing the loony conspiricism meme is the introduction of theories that that have no basis in evidence, such as the idea that no planes hit the towers. The association of these ideas with the careful research of investigators in the 9/11 Truth Movement stands to set back the cause of awakening the larger public to the facts of the attack.

A series of websites have promoting more or less obvious hoaxes since the attack. Examples are 911Review.org (See 9/11 Review REVIEWED), and Physics911.net. Both adopted as their centerpiece the idea that no jetliner crashed at the Pentagon -- an idea that may be single most elaborate and well-orchestrated hoax used to undermine the credibility of the 9-11 Truth Movement.

More traditional media such as videos and books have also been used to discourage rational inquiry into the crimes of 9/11/01 by associating alternatives to the official narrative uncritical thinking and junk science.

Several of these websites, videos, and books have been promoted in segments of the 9/11 Truth Movement that may seem surprising, given how effectively such material is used by the cover-up as ammunition against the spectrum of 9/11 Truth efforts. (A prime example of this is the March 2005 Popular Mechanics attack piece.) There are many possible reasons for this:

Because people inclined to accept that the attack was an inside job tend to be more open-minded in general, they are more likely to entertain a range of ideas, and are somewhat handicapped in appreciating the potency of ill-founded or poorly presented theories in discrediting good research.
Many working on social justice causes like 9/11 are reluctant to admit that there are saboteurs in their midst. The idea that the struggle to expose the crime is just a contest between the official story and alternatives is comforting in its simplicity. Recognizing that the struggle is a two-or-more-front war of ideas can be intimidating or even overwhelming.
Hoaxes come in many levels of sophistication and subtlety. Whereas few people have ever taken the hologram plane theory seriously, and the pod-plane theory was long ago rejected by most aspiring 9/11 activists, the Pentagon no-jetliner theory continues to detract from substantive evidence implicating insiders in the attack. "

from http://911review.com/disinfo/index.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:30 PM

http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/aerobatics.html

http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/witnesses.html

http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/witnesses.html

http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/crashdebris.html

http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/smallhole.html

http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/missingwings.html

http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/smallplane.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:30 PM

Think as you will. However, I have put forth two serious questions about 9/11.

1) Who let the bin Ladens and their associates leave the USA on chartered planes when the rest of the USA was locked down in terms of airline flights?

2) What caused the cement floors in the Towers to pulverize"


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:33 PM

Fall time of Towers


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:33 PM

Personal attacks of a scatological nature, eh, there Sweetie?

And, of course, the accusation made by all advocates of conspiracy theories against anyone who disagrees with them (especially when presented with a cogent refutation of the rococo "evidence" used to support the theory) that, if you don't agree, then you must be part of the conspiracy.

Conspiracy theory advocates usually start that when someone is really getting up their nose by yanking the rug out from under their sales pitch. You're getting desperate, Sweetie Patootie!

I am in wholehearted agreement that there should be an independent investigation (maybe several) into the 9/11 attacks and what led up to them, and that the guilty and/or criminally negligent (and there is plenty of evidence that the Bush administration was, at the very least, criminally negligent) should be brought to book.

But this hysterical exercise you're trying to peddle is only fogging up the whole issue.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:40 PM

Not directed at you, BB, but someone is fullashit.

"NIST estimated the elapsed times for the first exterior panels to strike the ground after the collapse initiated in each of the towers to be approximately 11 seconds for WTC 1 and approximately 9 seconds for WTC 2. These elapsed times were based on: (1) precise timing of the initiation of collapse from video evidence, and (2) ground motion (seismic) signals recorded at Palisades, N.Y., that also were precisely time-calibrated for wave transmission times from lower Manhattan (see NCSTAR 1-5A)."

And below, from the site you linked:

Each of the Twin Towers totally collapsed in an interval of approximately 14 to 16 seconds. A temporal record of the entire North Tower collapse is provided by the real-time CNN broadcast feed aired during the attack. (This table shows frames from that video at half-second intervals.) It allows reasonably accurate measurement of gross collapse features such as the growth and descent rate of the rubble and dust cloud. However, this and other video evidence does not allow the determination of a precise time of total collapse because each tower's destruction remains hidden behind an expanding dust cloud which, because of its size, reaches the ground over a span of several seconds.

Despite the availability of video evidence establishing lower bounds of total collapse times of over 13 seconds for each of the towers, assertions that they collapsed in under ten seconds are widespread


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:41 PM

"Since you're the one who is making them, you are the one who will have to stop them"

As long as I am not attacked again, I will not restort to such tactics.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:43 PM

Well, it is a site that proposes that there was a controlled demolition. I guess you can't trust them, if they disagree with the NIST...


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:45 PM

And there's the rub. They have both used the CNN film to determine times.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:49 PM

CNN credits WNYC for use of the film. Just to keep the record straight.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:51 PM

Nope. That's wrong. NIST used seismic records.

So let's accept NIST for a sec. The building going down unhindered would have hit ground in about 8.5 seconds. (You know the math on that. So maybe whatever pulverized the cement cleared away enough of the structue to allow an almost-freefall. So again, what did that to the cement?


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 04:58 PM

eye witness accounts - a few more than you have posted.

There's a lot of accounts in there, but they don't all support the official version of events, and none of them prove anything any more than the eyewitness accounts I've provided prove anything. All any of the witness accounts do is raise questions.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:00 PM

I think your answer, Peace is: Explosive charges.

I've seen photos of the wreckage of large, many-story highrise buildings that collapsed in earthquakes in Latin America. The many concrete floors that pancaked on each other did not pulverize. They ended up lying on top of each other like a huge multi-layered, squashed layer cake.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:00 PM

I can't see how ANYONE could fail to recognize truth. One would have to have serious attachment to one's own version of fantasy.

This one cuts both ways.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:01 PM

LH, that doesn't explain the 3"-deep cement dust all over the place after the collapses.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:03 PM

Okay. Let's hear your best guess as to what did that, Peace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:04 PM

"NIST's findings do not support the "pancake theory" of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel "trusses" integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon."

NIST itself disagrees with the pancake theory. So once again, what caused the pulverization of the cement floors? (Did your dog ever get a bone he just wouldn't leave alone--I said bone, no bone on--because to me a serious answer to the question of the cement dust is central to understanding the collapse cause.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:05 PM

LH, I really don't know.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:06 PM

Me neither.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:07 PM

NIST says that the building (one of them) fell in 9 seconds. Freefall would take about 8.5 seconds. Ipso facto, there was little 'structure' to impede the fall of the building. I want to know where the hell the internal structure went to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 05:11 PM

I don't have any link for April, but here's the bio on the author of that part. I bet you could find a way to contact her and ask her how she got that information...

Barbara Honegger, M.S. is Senior Military Affairs Journalist at the Naval Postgraduate School (1995−present), the Navy's advanced science, technology and national security affairs university. This research, as all of Honegger's research and publications on September 11, are solely in her capacity as a concerned private citizen and do not imply official endorsement. Honegger served as Special Assistant to the Assistant to the President and White House Policy Analyst (1981−83); was the pioneering Irangate author and whistleblower on the October Surprise (October Surprise, Tudor, 1989; and Iran−Contra expose documentary film "Cover−Up"); and was called as a researcher / witness at both the October 23, 2004, and August 27, 2005, Los Angeles Citizens 9/11 Grand Jury hearings held atPatriotic Hall in Los Angeles, Calif. Much of the information and analysis contained in this evidence summary was presented at the L.A. Citizens Grand Jury hearings and at the 9/11 Emergency Truth Convergence conference held at American University in Washington, D.C. in July, 2005.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 06:00 PM

By the way, Peace, snopes.com says that the bin Laden family were allowed to fly out on September 13. On that date the skies had been reopened.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 06:27 PM

I stand corrected on that. However, there was so little questioning done that it begs a few questions of its own, since government already had reason to suspect the complicity of bin Laden in anti-American activities..


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 07:11 PM

'August 2001 - Israeli security issued urgent warning to CIA of large-scale terror attacks

"ISRAELI intelligence officials say that they warned their counterparts in the United States last month that large-scale terrorist attacks on highly visible targets on the American mainland were imminent.
The attacks on the World Trade Centre's twin towers and the Pentagon were humiliating blows to the intelligence services, which failed to foresee them, and to the defence forces of the most powerful nation in the world, which failed to deflect them.
The Telegraph has learnt that two senior experts with Mossad, the Israeli military intelligence service, were sent to Washington in August to alert the CIA and FBI to the existence of a cell of as many of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation.
"They had no specific information about what was being planned but linked the plot to Osama bin Laden and told the Americans that there were strong grounds for suspecting Iraqi involvement," said a senior Israeli security official." - Telegraph (09/16/01)'


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 07:16 PM

Along those lines, Peace, on last night's Charlie Rose, investigative reporter Brian Ross amplified on the subject. He said that when Michael Chertoff, head of Homeland Security, said that he had a "gut feeling" that there would be another attack on the mainland before the year is out, what he was trying to say without saying it was that the 'chatter' points to something "bigger than 9/11".


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 08:05 PM

OK OK OK you all want to know what its going to be including Chertoff.

the magic 8 ball sez...

Its going to be a nine pronged attack on US nuclear power plants at the outside coolant pipe locations. The out come will be that 2 of them will devestate its surrounding countryside with radiation. The 2 plants will be 3 mile island on the Susquehana and the Edison plant on the Hudson. While the total damage will be less than that of Chernobyl the dollar value loss will be 10,000 times greater.
Of course the EPA stands by its statement that the public is in no danger from the safe leaks that occur over a 60 day period.


The west coast will have a scare of a Charmin plant having its toilet paper laced with anthrax spores.

The south west will have a motor vehical bomb scare when Homeland security shuts down Al Kayda's used car lot outside Phoenix.

Kansas will be told that Al Qada has the means to generate tornados at will.

And Florida will have another dubious election when Karl Rove wins the Governorship without even being on the ballot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 08:18 PM

And due to sabotage at Starbuck's, Seattle will suddenly be without coffee. An entire major seaport to the Far East will doze off, and that will have a disastrous effect on the economy.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 08:20 PM

I am glad that you are not psychic, Donuel.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: robomatic
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 08:29 PM

I thank God every day it's only oil that comes out of the Mideast, not espresso. That would indeed be serious.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Peace
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 08:43 PM

I think the options for choice of weapon is limited.

A nuclear weapon would cause retaliation in kind--massive retaliation. (I think at a ratio of 10 to 1 and the strikes would include capital cities, seats of government, military bases and manufacturing centers. I say 10 to 1 because that's what I'd do. But then that's just me.)

A gas attack in different areas of the US in an attempt to overuse and collapse the medical response system and trap Americans in their houses or places of work would engender a retaliation similar to that above or massive air bombardments using conventional weapons but on a scale never seen before.

Terrorists think in terms of crippling political processes and populations. Damage is easy enough to inflict when you get to choose the time, place and method. Once that type of battle is joined, then the military gloves come off, and despite what folks think of Muslim extremists' willingness to meet Allah, the leaders don't want to any sooner than they have to.

Subsequently, I would think that multiple targets using conventional explosives on large targets would be the likeliest scenario. Large oil plants, water supplies and transportation facilities. That attack will be meant to get at America's economic system and 'disallow' the US to respond with its own WMDs. The stock market was closed for about one week after 9/11. The drop in America's 'worth' was about seven percent. China picked up the slack. The USA cannot afford too much more of that. I think that's what they will go after. IMO.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 08:44 PM

More of a physic really Ebbie, doncha' think? I know he kinda' gives me the shits sometimes......................(:<))

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:00 PM

Canada should be very worried right now. Just one big "terror event" on a border city will drag Canada into America's nightmare FAST.

the leaders of Canada, the US and Mexico already agreed to a North American Union (Waco, 2005), but how does one IMPLEMENT something that is sure to be so wildly unpopular? After all, the Americans can't be allowed to own guns if they can't in Mexico and Canada, and Canada and the US can't have a high standard of living if the peons in Mexico are starving, so how do you get the three nations suckered into giving away their sovereignties? Well, you tell Mexicans they're "reconquering" the southwest for Mexico, even as Mexico is absorbed into the North American Union, and you get Americans and Canadians to give up all vestiges of freedom. That second part means more terrorist attacks, and ones that will light a fire under Canada's ass. So...Detroit, Minneapolis? My yankee geography is fuzzy. Which city would serve that purpose?

Chicago would be a good even-odds bet. The owner of the 3 destroyed World Trade Centers (Larry Silverstein) bought the Sears Tower with the money he made off the WTC insurance, and they've run "drills" of flying planes into the Sears Tower, so maybe a "dirty bomb" destroys the Sears tower when the wind is out of the south. Radioactivity is tracked into Canada and Ossama bin Laden takes credit for the attack in a morphed, 5-year-old video. Seriously, that's what I think is going to happen. Rupert Murdoch is buying the Dow Jones, so that leaves the Chicago Mercantile as the last semi-autonomous financial market in the US, so there will be hack attacks on the mercantile while the Sears Tower falls, and once again some goat herders will be blamed.

As far as "who's behind it," it's not Ossama bin Laden or the US government. It's the people controlling the US and most other govts. Debt-backed fiat money systems have been the tool used to control societies for the past couple of hundred years, and now the US and Canada are going to be destroyed with those tools. Just as Europe was reorganized by the banking powers during the World Wars, and just as Russia was reorganized and China reorganized, it's now North America's turn. A gangster government has been installed in the U.S., and they aren't beholden to anyone but the military-industrial complex and the banks that fund it. And the immediate goal is the reduction of the first-world status of America and Canada to the third-world status of Mexico. Once that is achieved (and the pesky Bill of Rights is destroyed), the next phase will probably focus on South America (too much independence there). Then more consolidation, more destruction of national sovereignty, etc.

I seriously think there will be an attack on a US/Canadian border city, and the citizens of both countries will be told it's in our interest to get rid of the border.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:02 PM

Ebbie, I spent time from 1980 to 2000 painting one 16 sq ft canvass with two building exploding in orange flames, a airplane nearby and a tsunami offshore. A myriad of hands reach up to heaven from the city.

It was bought by a couple in San Antonio and they called me after each disaster to exclaim their disbelief.

My thinking was it was a portrayal of a pole shift of Earth's orbit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:04 PM

And since Bush can't run for President again, can't he become Prime Minister of Canada?


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:07 PM

And Dickhead the Sweetness and Light trolls out another since the conspiracy bullshit is getting tiresome.........Now who will bite?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:13 PM

Larry Silverstein owns the Sears Tower, cockspew. Look it up. They didn't even bother to change the players, so why should they change the M.O.? Sears Tower, airliner, radioactivity into Canada, give up your rights.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:21 PM

Code Red would legitimately allow Bush to cancel elections and remain in power.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 09:59 PM

"Larry Silverstein owns the Sears Tower"

You might want to check that, because he is not the owner of the Sears Tower.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:13 PM

Nonsense Ron! Why can't he? I mean really man.....Why let facts ruin perfectly good bullshit like Sweetnuts has been pumping out(along with a few others)? Hellfire, why don't we title the Tower to the Easter Bunny?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:34 PM

Hey, man, this thread must have some fascination for you. It keeps drawing you back. ;-) I thought you'd almost given up on wasting your time here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:45 PM

As long as I am not attacked again, I will not restort to such tactics.

Please show me the post in which I attacked you first, Ron.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:54 PM

No!


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:56 PM

This is the initial attack, Ron (from you)...

"It requires belief to accept the official version of events."

It requires belief to accept the versions that you and toots sweet are cutting and pasting from.   ALL versions require belief as well as the ability to reason.   Carol has not convinced any of us of her beliefs, and we won't convince her of ours. You can keep asking questions on where the elephant came from or how the magician sawed the lady in half, but you see what you want to see.

You ask a lot of questions, but fail to give answers.



And this was my response to it...

Well, the problem with this, Ron, is that my main belief is that we can't trust the official version of events. That's my main contention. I don't know what happened. I just know that we can't believe the official version of events. For you to suggest that I have even said that I think I know what happened shows that you haven't been reading my posts at all and you are just projecting your own bullshit onto me. Please stop it.

There is no place for personal attacks in any kind of reasonable discussion. When people resort to attacks, it's because they don't have anything better to offer. I know you can do better than that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 10:58 PM

MetLife will sell Sears Tower
The Wall Street Journal
March 12, 2004

Two investors who are part of Larry Silverstein's group that owns the World Trade Center lease are among the buyers of the Sears Tower, which MetLife Inc. agreed to sell Thursday for more than $800 million, according to people familiar with the situation.

Lloyd Goldman and Joseph Cayre, New York investors who are among Mr. Silverstein's backers in the Trade Center, are part of a group that agreed to buy the Chicago landmark, these people said. Another New York investor, Jeffrey Feil, was also a participant in the Sears Tower deal, the people said. Names of the other investors couldn't be learned....

http://www.searstower.org/news.html

This is the latest news I could find on the Sears Tower. Silverstein's "group" and "names of other investors couldn't be learned." Silverstein owns it. At least enough of it to allow Marvin Bush to run security if he wants, same as they did at the WTC leading up to 9/11. Glad I found searstower.org. I'll start bugging them now. Gotta be lots of secretaries there, lots of emails. I bet they'd love to know they could look out a window and into a cockpit at any moment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 11:00 PM

If you consider what I posted to be an "attack", it answers a lot of questions I have about you.

The other quote you posted was a response I gave to one from Little Hawk. Did I ever say YOU attacked me????

Enough of the word games. Let's get back to the discussion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 11:05 PM

"Silverstein owns it."

I'm sorry, but there is no record I could find of that. Every story I found lists three investors - Goldman, Cayre and Feil. While it would not surprise to me find Silverstein has some investment in it, there is nothing out there that says he or Silverstein Properties are involved.   I also could not find anything about Marvin Bush being involved.   If you have such reports, rather than you opinion which you are claming is fact, I would love to see it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: GUEST,sooo sweet
Date: 19 Jul 07 - 11:35 PM

I predict there will be a disaster of terroristic proportions for every hair coming out of my left ear.

Tha'ts THOUSANDS


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Subject: RE: BS: Michael Moore - 9/11 could be inside job
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Jul 07 - 12:04 AM

You got that right, Spaw... :)


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