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BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Riginslinger 25 Sep 08 - 09:45 PM
Donuel 25 Sep 08 - 10:34 AM
Alice 25 Sep 08 - 10:27 AM
Alice 25 Sep 08 - 09:23 AM
Alice 25 Sep 08 - 09:18 AM
Riginslinger 25 Sep 08 - 08:59 AM
Alice 25 Sep 08 - 08:51 AM
CarolC 25 Sep 08 - 07:56 AM
Riginslinger 25 Sep 08 - 07:26 AM
CarolC 25 Sep 08 - 12:08 AM
Riginslinger 24 Sep 08 - 10:32 PM
Alice 24 Sep 08 - 10:07 PM
Riginslinger 24 Sep 08 - 09:31 PM
Amos 24 Sep 08 - 05:06 PM
Alice 24 Sep 08 - 05:06 PM
Amos 24 Sep 08 - 05:03 PM
Donuel 24 Sep 08 - 04:09 PM
Ebbie 24 Sep 08 - 03:54 PM
Joe Offer 24 Sep 08 - 03:36 PM
Riginslinger 22 Sep 08 - 11:26 PM
Amos 22 Sep 08 - 10:21 PM
CarolC 22 Sep 08 - 10:18 PM
Riginslinger 22 Sep 08 - 09:58 PM
Amos 22 Sep 08 - 09:53 PM
Riginslinger 22 Sep 08 - 09:18 PM
Alice 22 Sep 08 - 04:27 PM
Amos 22 Sep 08 - 04:26 PM
CarolC 22 Sep 08 - 04:23 PM
CarolC 22 Sep 08 - 04:22 PM
Riginslinger 22 Sep 08 - 04:20 PM
Amos 22 Sep 08 - 03:09 PM
Alice 22 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM
Riginslinger 22 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM
Amos 22 Sep 08 - 12:37 PM
Amos 22 Sep 08 - 12:17 PM
Amos 22 Sep 08 - 11:53 AM
Ebbie 22 Sep 08 - 10:59 AM
Alice 22 Sep 08 - 10:15 AM
beardedbruce 22 Sep 08 - 08:47 AM
Donuel 19 Sep 08 - 08:58 PM
Donuel 19 Sep 08 - 08:51 PM
beardedbruce 19 Sep 08 - 03:48 PM
Amos 19 Sep 08 - 03:44 PM
CarolC 19 Sep 08 - 03:40 PM
Riginslinger 19 Sep 08 - 02:56 PM
beardedbruce 19 Sep 08 - 01:57 PM
Amos 19 Sep 08 - 01:54 PM
beardedbruce 19 Sep 08 - 01:34 PM
Stringsinger 19 Sep 08 - 01:27 PM
Donuel 19 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:45 PM

Yes, Donuel, I will agree, religion is an awful thing, but whatever she engaged in regarding witchcraft, is nothing when compared to Reverend Wright and that horrible Pfleger person.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:34 AM

Last night I saw Palin in her church being excorcised from the possible curse of witchcraft by a preacher who actually has experience in persecuting witches in Africa.

You can't make this stuff up.

It was on MSNBC the Rachel Maddow show.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 10:27 AM

Palin has a lot of homework to do. There is probably a big stack of books on her night stand. McCain's record for Dummies, The Economy for Dummies, National Security for Dummies....


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:23 AM

Couric: I'm just going to ask you one more time - not to belabor the point. Specific examples in his 26 years of pushing for more regulation.

Palin: I'll try to find ya some and I'll bring them to ya.

==

Palin showed herself to be a dummie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 09:18 AM

Rig, you must live in an alternate universe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:59 AM

Well, to a certain extent that's true Katie Couric could spend some time brushing up on her interviewing technigues..


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 08:51 AM

She came off as a dummie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:56 AM

LOLOL


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 07:26 AM

She came off brilliantly!


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Sep 08 - 12:08 AM

Palin being interviewed by Katie Couric...

http://vodpod.com/watch/1032138-palin-and-couric


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 10:32 PM

Yes, that too!


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 10:07 PM

.... and that all the old men want to hug her.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 09:31 PM

So you're left to wonder what she really learned from the meetings. Probably that her understanding of international affairs is actually broad and boundless.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:06 PM

Wednesday, Sept. 24, 2008 13:47 EDT
Quote of the day
Via Jonathan Martin, a snippet from the poll report following the meeting John McCain and Sarah Palin had with Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvilli and Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko:

McCain then looked around the room and gestured as if to welcome questions. The AP reporter shouted a question at Gov. Palin ("Governor, what have you learned from your meetings?") but McCain aide Brooke Buchanan intervened and shepherded everybody out of the room.

Palin looked surprised, leaned over to McCain and asked him a question, to which your pooler thinks he shook his head as if to say "No."


Update: My friend Steve Benen's comments on this were too good not to share. At his new(ish) home at Washington Monthly, he writes:

Look, "What have you learned from your meetings?" is an easy one. It's not a trick question, or a "gotcha" question, or even a question intended to do test Palin's limited understand of international affairs. She could have easily said something like, "I've been encouraged by how much support the United States continues to enjoy around the world." No muss, no fuss. It's not rocket science...." (Salon)


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:06 PM

This thread is pretty long... don't know if this has already been posted. S.P. is the "anointed one".

There is an email chain letter to evangelicals making the internet rounds.
"Sarah is that standard God has raised up to stop the flood. She has the anointing ... Back in the 1980s, I sensed that Israel's little-known Benjamin Netanyahu was chosen by God for an important end-time role. I still believe that. I now have that same sense about Sarah Palin."
The report about it is here:
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/09/18/palin_email/index.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 05:03 PM

"Sept. 23, 2008 | WASILLA, Alaska -- Before Sarah Palin decided to run for the Wasilla mayor's office in 1996 against incumbent John Stein, the Palins and Steins were friends. John Stein had helped launch Palin's political career, mentoring the hockey mom during her 1994 run for City Council, along with veteran council member Nick Carney. Stein's wife, Karen Marie, went to aerobics classes with Palin.

But when she announced her candidacy for Stein's seat, vowing to overturn the city's "old boy" establishment, a different Sarah Palin emerged. "Things got very ugly," recalled Naomi Tigner, a friend of the Steins. "Sarah became very mean-spirited."

The Wasilla mayor's seat is nonpartisan, and Mayor Stein, a former city planner who had held the post for nine years, ran a businesslike campaign that stressed his experience and competency. But Palin ignited the traditionally low-key race with scorching social issues, injecting "God, guns and abortion into the race -- things that had nothing to do with being mayor of a small town," according to Tigner.

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Palin's mayoral campaign rode the wave of conservative, evangelical fervor that was sweeping Alaska in the '90s. Suddenly candidates' social values, not their ability to manage the roads and sewer systems, were dominating the debate. "Sarah and I were both Republicans, but this was an entirely new slant to local politics -- much more aggressive than anything I'd ever seen," said Stein, looking back at the election that put Palin on the political map.

There was a knife-sharp, personal edge to Palin's campaign that many locals found disturbing, particularly because of the warm relationship between Palin and Stein before the race.

"I called Sarah's campaign for mayor the end of the age of innocence in Wasilla," said Carney.

Even though Palin knew that Stein is a Protestant Christian, from a Pennsylvania Dutch background, her campaign began circulating the word that she would be "Wasilla's first Christian mayor." Some of Stein's supporters interpreted this as an attempt to portray Stein as Jewish in the heavily evangelical community. Stein himself, an eminently reasonable and reflective man, thinks "they were redefining Christianity to mean born-agains."

The Palin campaign also started another vicious whisper campaign, spreading the word that Stein and his wife -- who had chosen to keep her own last name when they were married -- were not legally wed. Again, Palin knew the truth, Stein said, but chose to muddy the waters. "We actually had to produce our marriage certificate," recalled Stein, whose wife died of breast cancer in 2005 without ever reconciling with Palin.

"I had a hand in creating Sarah, but in the end she blew me out of the water," Stein said, sounding more wearily ironic than bitter. "Sarah's on a mission, she's an opportunist."

According to some political observers in Alaska, this pattern -- exploiting "old-boy" mentors and then turning against them for her own advantage -- defines Sarah Palin's rise to power. Again and again, Palin has charmed powerful political patrons, and then rejected them when it suited her purposes. She has crafted a public image as a clean politics reformer, but in truth, she has only blown the whistle on political corruption when it was expedient for her to do so. Above all, Palin is a dynamo of ambition, shrewdly maneuvering her way through the notoriously compromised world of Alaska politics, making and breaking alliances along the way.

"When Palin takes credit for knocking off the old-boy network in Alaska, it drives me crazy," said Andrew Halcro, an Anchorage businessman and radio talk show host who ran against her in the 2006 GOP primary race for governor. "Sarah certainly availed herself of that network whenever it was expedient."

..." More here.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 04:09 PM

Joe there is a real S. Palin doll already.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 03:54 PM

I like this too from Joe O's link:

"We do not support government bailouts of private institutions. Government interference in the markets exacerbates problems in the marketplace and causes the free market to take longer to correct itself."

-- Republican Party platform, 2008


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Sep 08 - 03:36 PM

Well, I'm trying to maintain my reputation as Mr. Nice Guy and stay out of all this politician-bashing, but I have to say that I can't resist Doonesbury's current Sarah Palin Doll series. Take a look.

-Joe-

More on Sarah Palin dolls (click)


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:26 PM

"Villain!! Villain!! Go to, you ne'er-do-well jackanapes!!"


                Is that a quote from a Jack-in-the-Box ad, or...


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:21 PM

Villain!! Villain!! Go to, you ne'er-do-well jackanapes!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:18 PM

Timely fashion meaning that they should have finished it before she was nominated? How the hell were they supposed to know McCain was going to pick her as his running mate? Investigations take as long as they take. She was under investigation by people in her own party, as well as the other party, and rather suddenly and unexpectedly, she got named as McCain's running mate.

The only thing that's political about this investigation is the way she and her people are stonewalling it, and the way they are trying to make it look like it's a Democratic initiative instead of what it really is - a bipartisan initiative.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:58 PM

The point? You mean that McCain chose Palin because she had agreed to be investigated by the legislature?


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:53 PM

Odd how you keep slipping the point about their being a connection...


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 09:18 PM

"...and the investigation was ongoing before Palin was nominated for VP."


                     Exactly the point. If they'd gotten it over in a timely fashion, they wouldn't have a political issue. Now, they'll just have to wait a couple of months.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 04:27 PM

A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS in Alaska legislature dealing with this issue voted for this investigation. You can't blame the Democrats.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 04:26 PM

ANd if you don't think abuse of power has any bearing on recommendations for high executive power, why, I am surprised. You sound so human in other posts.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 04:23 PM

...and the investigation was ongoing before Palin was nominated for VP.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 04:22 PM

It's not the Alaskan Democrats. There are several Republicans who are involved in the investigation as well. It has never been a partisan thing. Alaskans are (quite rightly, in my opinion) concerned that Palin may have been abusing her power.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 04:20 PM

Wrong on all counts. The Alaskan Democrats are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. The whole thing had no importance at all until she was selected for VP.

                Once the election is over, she'll have all the time in the world to prove it.

                The press could better spend its time by looking into the association of Barack Obama and Tony Rezko.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 03:09 PM

Ah, but Rig, you are mistaken. As a demonstration of her sense of proproety, her sense of fair play, her notion of ethics, it has everything to do with the job she is seeking, unless you want to see a mini-me Cheney-in-Training in the slot.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:51 PM

"...nothing to do with the office she is seeking"

Stonewalling, avoiding accountability, abuse of power... I think that has a lot to do with the character of the kind of person we want as a VP.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:40 PM

This whole Wooten thing would have been over and done with by now if she had not been asked to join the McCain ticket. Obviously she can't take the time to deal with it now, and it has nothing to do with the office she is seeking.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:37 PM

A slightly snarky essay on the nature of the Republican VP candidacy, By Kerry Tomasi, in the Online Journal.


Sep 22, 2008, 00:13

"As Paul Begala recently put it: "If McCain were to say the moon was made of green cheese, we can be certain that Obama would pounce on it, and point out it's actually made of rock. And you just know the headline in the paper the next day would read: CANDIDATES CLASH ON LUNAR LANDSCAPE."

And so, for the past eight years or so, the Republican Party has been able to 'muddy the waters' on virtually every issue and/or get away with redefining black as white, up as down, and wrong as right with few, if any, consequences. They've even gotten away with marketing a scheme to transfer wealth from the middle and lower classes to those at the very top as "what's best for working families."

I was recently chided about becoming a registered Republican. Here was my response. I think it's apropos to the subject . . .

"Truth is, I'm just way too 'conservative' for that particular party right now. I'm far too conservative . . .

"Fiscally -- as in not irresponsibly running up, and passing on trillions of dollars of debt to future generations, or borrowing money from China to fund tax cuts for millionaires.

"Environmentally -- as in conserving our environment for those future generations, so they'll at least have clean air to breath and water to drink as they work off all that debt.

"Socially -- as in keeping the government completely out of our personal lives.

"Internationally -- as in not invading other countries under false pretenses in order to steal their stuff, bankrupting our own in the process.

"Domestically -- as in preserving our country's assets and not selling them off in the dead of night to the highest bidder, like some crazed crack addict needing money for a fix.

"Governmentally -- as in adhering to constitutional precepts like habeas corpus; being free from illegal search and seizures; exercising our right to free speech without fear of retribution; not torturing confessions out of suspects; maintaining the separation of powers; etc, etc."


The point is . . . the Republican leadership has managed to turn everything conservatives once stood for inside out and backwards. They've become a party dominated by a Dobson/Robertson/Hagee brand of religious extremism (working feverishly to bring about the end of the world and the Rapture), and those who are so overcome by a compulsive need to have it all -- and I mean all -- that it entirely overwhelms any sense of personal integrity and societal responsibility, making them completely antithetical to a democratic republic.

John McCain and Sarah Palin represent both sides of this spectrum perfectly, and are therefore a Neo-Republican match made in heaven.

Which brings me back to McCain's "decision" (it wasn't really his decision you know) that Palin be the one to step into the presidency if something were to happen to him.

Let me ask a simple, semi-theoretical, question.

Does anyone reading this (other than that 30 percent unflappable right-wing base) really and truly and sincerely believe Sarah Palin should be our next president? That she is the best, most qualified candidate, out of all the people in this country, for that job?

No, of course not. No one, outside of that "base," who puts any thought at all into the matter, would think that.

But this is exactly what you're contemplating when you say "I'm leaning McCain" or "I haven't quite made up my mind."

McCain is 72, with a history of recurring cancer, and some kind of weird "tick" that causes him to fiddle with his wedding band obsessively (early signs?). This is not a gamble we in this country can afford right now. We're not talking about someone who would step in if the mayor of Wasilla were incapacitated; this is President of the United States, at one of the most crucial phases in our nation's history!

And that's why I like the pick of Sarah Palin for VP.

Because it lays bare -- stark naked in broad daylight -- the ruse that is McCain's slogan, "Country First."

This cynical choice did more in one fell swoop to expose the Neo-Republicans for who they are, and where their priorities lie, than folks like me have been able to accomplish in 10 years.

If McCain is elected, and the final stages of this conquest (they'll refer to it as "reform") are successful, you will not recognize this country in six-seven years (maybe a lot sooner). This neocon crew has every intention of dismantling what's left of the middle class, simultaneously shredding whatever safety net there is, leaving the vast majority of us to fight like dogs over the scraps (under the watchful eye of a privatized "police state"), while they sneer contemptuously from behind their gated and guarded walls.

..."


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 12:17 PM

Palin claims right to see all state files
By Jason Leopold
Online Journal Contributing Writer


Sep 18, 2008, 00:18

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Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin is maneuvering to stop an investigation into an alleged abuse of power, in part, by claiming that she has an unlimited right to pry into the personnel records of all state employees, including the state trooper who divorced her sister.

Palin's new position was summed up in a Sept. 9 letter from Alaska Attorney General Talis Colberg to the state legislature, which has authorized an independent counsel probe into whether Palin and her staff illegally accessed confidential personnel records of her ex-brother-in-law, state trooper Mike Wooten.

The probe also focuses on Palin's firing of state Public Safety Commissioner Walter Monegan in July after he refused to fire Wooten.

Colberg's argument is that Palin can access confidential files of any state employee she chooses and thus the allegation that she got unauthorized access to Wooten's personnel records -- by whatever means -- is moot.

"It does not violate the State Personnel Act for Department of Administration Staff to provide confidential personnel information to the governor or her staff -- or for the governor or her staff to receive that information -- in the course and scope of their official duties," the attorney general wrote.

"The governor or her staff may, in the course and scope of their official duties, review a confidential personnel file to ensure, for example, that an employee is adequately supervised, appropriately evaluated, and appropriately disciplined. In appropriate cases, the governor may also direct the termination of a state employee."

This legal analysis appears to be an attempt to provide Palin and her staffers with legal cover for allegedly disseminating confidential information about Wooten in a campaign to get him fired.

However, John Cyr, executive director of the Public Safety Employees Association which represents Alaska State Troopers, disputes the notion of that Palin can have unlimited access to all state employee records.

"It is illegal to access employee medical and personnel files unless it's on a 'need to know basis,'" Cyr said about Palin's assertion of this unlimited authority. "This is outrageous."

Palin's new defense line became necessary when it turned out that an earlier claim that Wooten's personnel file was public record through his divorce/custody case with Palin's sister turned out to be untrue.

Palin, her private attorney Thomas Van Flein and McCain campaign officials had said Wooten released his confidential medical and employment records as part of those proceedings. Palin's office even posted Wooten's Feb. 7 agreement to release those records as part of the case discovery.

....Online Journal


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 11:53 AM

DOn't worry about it Donuel. It WAS a good cartoon. Maybe just a bit more than folks are prepared to digest.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ebbie
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:59 AM

I think that article assigns too much blame on Palin. The problem began before she was mayor and continues today.

Wasilla had a great example in Anchorage for its helter skelter growth. Anchorage is a sprawling city with little or no apparent plan, it has no heart, no core.

As for the lake, on the Oregon coast is a pretty little lake that had, and perhaps still has, the same problem. It became choked with weeds and algae and its oxygen count went way down. The town of Lincoln City called in experts, few of whom agreed on what to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 10:15 AM

The lake at Wasilla is now dead, thanks to Palin's time as mayor.

-------Sarah Palin's Dead Lake

read the whole article here (click)
"I try to avoid driving to Wasilla so I won't get depressed," added the official, who asked for his name to be withheld, to avoid Palin's "wrath."

"You get visually mugged when you drive through there. I take the long way, through the back roads, just to avoid it."

Wasilla City Council member Dianne Woodruff hears the same lament about her town all the time. "Everywhere in Alaska, you hear people say, 'We don't want to be another Wasilla.' We're not just the state's meth capital, we're the ugly box-store capital. Was Sarah a good steward of this beautiful valley? No. I think it comes from her lack of experience and awareness of other places, how other cities try to preserve what makes them attractive and livable.

-------


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 22 Sep 08 - 08:47 AM

"I stepped out of humor bounds and didn't know it. "


1st time you're a wit.


2nd time you're a half-wit.







3rd time you're a nitwit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 08:58 PM

Whew the cartoon I did about the 5 stages of Republicans was the worst bomb yet.

IT goes to show ya that I thought it was the best I had done in a year.

I stepped out of humor bounds and didn't know it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 08:51 PM

A Palin supporter The great American Electorate


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:48 PM

"But when President Bush's foreign policy vision was under general assault in late 2005 and early 2006 -- the bloody low point of the Iraq war -- he set out in his 2006 State of the Union address to defend three prongs or elements of the Bush doctrine against growing American isolationism: "


Now, if you want I will refer to the bombing of allies as the "Obama Doctrine".


Or you can call your version the "Defined by Bush-Haters Bush Doctrine"


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:44 PM

THe Obama camp has nothing to do with this, Bruce; take off your blinders. There is no reason for any of the items cited by Gerson to be especially identified as "The Bush Doctrine"--they are just ordinary operating principles, for the most part. Unilateral aggression, on the other hand, is a salient departure from tradition, and was not embraced as a major policy by anyone else, and is much more important than those other sugar-pop statements as a "Doctrine." Unilateral aggression is as big a change of position for the US as the Monroe Doctrine was.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 03:40 PM

Ain't that the truth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 02:56 PM

"...what really scares me is not Palin but the stupidity of the uninformed American public..."


                     If we solved that problem, we would surely be choosing between some other candidates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 01:57 PM

Amos,

I believe that he was the speechwriter at the time.


I think perhaps you have been bamboozled by such a thin coat of sugar sprinkles, by the Obama camp.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 01:54 PM

That is completely disingenuous, and completely overlooks the largest departure from traditional international policy in Bush's history, the departure of unilateral aggression. If Gerson was as much "there" as he says, he sure was not paying attention, to have been so bamboozled by such a thin coat of sugar sprinkles.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 01:34 PM

String-

Washington Post:

Name That Doctrine

By Michael Gerson
Friday, September 19, 2008; Page A19

It is an odd thing to observe a historical debate on events about which one possesses the knowledge of a participant -- something like watching archeologists dig and sift through your living room, proposing their own interpretations of your photos and knickknacks. And it raises a disturbing prospect: That most such debates are conducted by experts possessing great confidence and little knowledge.

This controversy began when ABC's Charles Gibson asked Sarah Palin to give her view of the Bush doctrine. Palin's vague answer provoked a dismissive response from Gibson, who defined the doctrine as "anticipatory self-defense." Charles Krauthammer came to Palin's defense, arguing that there were four consecutive versions of the Bush doctrine, culminating in the democracy promotion agenda of Bush's second inaugural address -- a description that is closer to the truth. Joe Klein, with absolute and unjustified self-assurance, then insisted, "There was only one Bush doctrine" -- the preemption of emerging threats. One frustrated Canadian columnist concluded: "It turns out nobody really knows what the Bush doctrine is."

But that is not quite true. The Bush doctrine is not the Da Vinci Code. It developed over time, but it developed according to the intentions of a single man. The content of the Bush doctrine directly reflects President Bush's convictions about the nature of the post-Sept. 11 world. And the form of that doctrine is something I worked directly with him to shape.

There are many speeches that could be cited. But when President Bush's foreign policy vision was under general assault in late 2005 and early 2006 -- the bloody low point of the Iraq war -- he set out in his 2006 State of the Union address to defend three prongs or elements of the Bush doctrine against growing American isolationism:

· Aggressively confronting emerging security threats. From the start, President Bush stated that the preemption of new-age threats -- terrorist networks, the regimes that aid and shelter them, and weapons of mass destruction -- is not always a military task. Economic and diplomatic pressure are the preferred and likely tools for dealing with outlaw regimes. And there is no doubt that the Iraq war has sapped public support for military options, even as a last resort. But Iraq shows the challenges of implementing preemption; it does not disprove the theory. If Iraq had possessed stockpiles of nerve gas and biological agents, who would now question the need to forcefully confront that threat? In this election, it is Barack Obama who has proposed the extension of greater American power into the dangerous border regions of Pakistan, the current home base of al-Qaeda. What possible reason could there be for such action except the preemption of threats to America and its allies?

· Democracy promotion. The idea that America benefits in the long run from the spread of a liberal, democratic, free-trading world order is not a Bush innovation, it is a post-World War II consensus. Not every tyrant in recent history has been an enemy of America. But every major enemy of America in recent history has been a tyrant. Bush's true innovation was to apply this consensus -- at least occasionally -- to the Arab Middle East. It is not an easy task. There are many valid arguments about the pace, phasing and methods of reform. But eventually there is no alternative. The dictators of the Middle East not only rule unjustly but generally ineffectively, and their oppression pushes most opposition toward the radical mosque. As these nations fail and become unstable, the question will inevitably be asked of any president: What did you do to promote a viable political alternative to Islamism while you had the time?

· Fighting disease and promoting development. This is perhaps the most unexpected and underappreciated element of the Bush doctrine. Bush, in some ways, has accepted a "root causes" theory of world disorder, from terrorism, to criminal and drug networks, to pandemics and refugees. So he has doubled overseas development assistance during his time in office and nearly quadrupled aid to Africa (an increasingly important battlefield in the war of ideas against radical Islam). He has tied some of this increased aid, through the Millennium Challenge Corporation, to improvements in governance that make other forms of economic and social progress possible. Both of the current candidates for president have indicated they will expand global aid as well.

It really doesn't matter much if the next president and vice president can identify these three elements of the Bush doctrine. They will live by them anyway.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Stringsinger
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 01:27 PM

Doug, what really scares me is not Palin but the stupidity of the uninformed American
public. We could be looking at a political lynch mob with torches and pitchforks.

Palin is a shell. There are those who read into her candidacy what they want to regarding god, gays, guns, wars and all the lipstick pig distractions.

She has shown herself to be ignorant and if you don't know what the Bush Doctrine is,
it's the doctrine of preemptive military strikes on a foreign country. Most politically informed people know what this is and it's completely disingenuous to say that most people don't
know what this is. Maybe there are these yahoos that don't know but I wouldn't count you
as among them. I have more respect for you than that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 01:12 PM

Denial is not just a river, its a bitch

http://usera.imagecave.com/donuel/Fivestages.jpg


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