Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 May 09 - 06:32 PM

Incidentally, I am told that it is not that easy to find a full job description on the C# site.

I agree not easy - but for "catters I provided a link in my first post.

It's near the bottom of the page.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 09 May 09 - 07:38 PM

So the first job for the new marketing person is to sort out the website then?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 09 - 04:21 AM

Thank you Dave, I will point that out to a person I know.

Signage outside C#Ho would be subject to planning permission AND all the restrictions normally applied to a listed building. Listing a building may reduce its market value, but thanks to the powers that that is so or the vultures would strip our land of its architectural history.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 May 09 - 04:53 AM

So the first job for the new marketing person is to sort out the website then?

I rarely look at a website (including my own) without thinking how it could be improved.

It probably applies to the EFDSS.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: johnadams
Date: 10 May 09 - 06:51 AM

The EFDSS web site is being completely overhauled right now and the new one will allow staff to do daily updates of the news.

There is a new web shop which went up last week and replaces the one I put into operation when I had the responsibility. The web shop has been a success over the last three or four years. Until last week every sale and delivery notification was reported to me via email and I have a full knowledge of the EFDSS customer base which extends across the globe. That knowledge will obviously fade now as others pick up the reins but I expect he new marketing director will find it a useful starting point,

I can say that with a couple of exceptions, every order was turned round by the staff within 1 working day, which is what web customers expect in this day and age. I see occasional comments on here wondering what the staff 'do all day' - I can answer that - they work exceedingly hard at a mountain of routine work and still find the time to talk to people who ring in with queries about the folk scene in general (sometimes expecting the staff will all have an encyclopaedic of the entire folk scene).

A new full time member of staff with good managerial experience will be yet another positive step forward for the Society, but it won't immediately solve all the problems of a hard pressed charity operating in a recession. The Society will still need volunteers in the House and in the many other supporting roles ( and where we're going to find someone to take over the work of our dear departed friend Malcolm Douglas I really don't know, but it will happen and things will get done - in their own good time).

Folkopedia continues to grow slowly although the number of regular contributors is quite small and we could do with more. Now I've stepped back a bit from the EFDSS governance and am also about to retire from academia I can return to my key projects of Folkopedia, Village Music Project and the Paul Graney audio archive.

Getting back to the EFDSS web site, I've seen it go through 3 major overhauls and the fourth is imminent. Most people accept that maintaining web sites is time consuming and/or costly and there's always a better one around the corner. The EFDSS site is much better than it was and guess what, there's a better one round the corner.

THe EFDSS Folk Shop

Folkopedia

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Howard Jones
Date: 10 May 09 - 07:09 AM

Folknacious, it's not a question of anti-London snobbery, its simply geography. The side of the EFDSS which gets most publicity is its events, which are all in London. As Johnny pointed out, its main activity is actually in publication, but this gets much less emphasis. My perception of the Society's activities is focussed on events which I can't get to. For that reason it doesn't seem very relevant to me.

Johnny mentions the Take 6 project, which looks fantastic, but the information about this on the website is hidden away under "Education", which is not a field I'm personally interested in so its not somewhere I'd look. Something like that should be trumpeted on the home page.

It needn't cost much to publicise these activities more widely. Getting support from outside the folk world is important, but it's folk enthusiasts who should be the backbone of the Society, yet I know hardly anyone who is a member.

The sooner they get a marketing director in place the better.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 May 09 - 07:19 AM

On the grounds that the mag, journal, publishing, instrumental / dance tuition, several festivals and folk directory which all used to be produced inhouse when I was on the staff are now outsourced (the website seems to be a Smoothops effort) or have disappeared altogether, yes I did wonder just a bit what current staff (other than the librarians) actually did. A bit like at the BBC, really.

The then Chief Exec in what was unfondly known as The Goode Old Days was quite adamant that he didn't want the staff to have anything like an encyclopedic grasp of what I (for one) thought we were there for. He wanted us to just do typing and let halls to anyone who would pay. Nevertheless, we provided a comprehensive information service to all who phoned and dropped by the library and shop. Ah, the shop. Such a loss . . .

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: johnadams
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:18 AM

Diane wrote:

the website seems to be a Smoothops effort

Que?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:28 AM

On the homepage it says "designed by Bryan Ledgard" who I have certainly seen about the place taking pics although I know not to be on the staff but who has a lot of input (though perhaps not actually employed by) those Oldham purveyors of schlock.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:33 AM

OOH!   I could do that! :0)

I'd get Show of Hands and Seth Lakeman in, fill the place up with vibrant music and vibrant beings...marketing it would be an absolute doddle!

Oozles of Enthusiam bursting forth all over the place, inspiring those who've never heard of Cecil Sharpley Hoose to come racing to the door!

And as for the shop, well, I could fill that up with posters of the Shropshire Bedlams (swooooon) and Fishermen's Friends (11 swooooons!)
Demons and Bellowheads and all sorts of wonderful stuff...T shirts and car stickers, books and CDs, posters and roasters and things that go bump nonny noo in the middle of the night...

It'd become the most popular attraction in the whole of London City...

But wait...

Me doesn't have a degree, nor an underdegree, not even a degree under me...nor a graduate, or a graduation, save for the graduation in colour from Beige Music to Colourful Music...a Dulux Coloured Plethora of sight and sound, spilling out of Cecile TooSharpley House and out into the bowels of London Town, lighting up the sky!

Nah...best to leave it to the Moaning Minnies to sort out, then it can still be spoken of in hallowed terms and filled with concerts from 'their own' which not a great deal of people will attend....

I'll open a new Folk & Acoustic Cafe, across the road...No Degrees Allowed...where everyone can sing in whatever accent they love best.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:53 AM

So an event like the RVW concert, with Eliza Carthy, Jackie Oates, Lisa Knapp, Jim Causley, Jon Boden, Fay Hield, Tim Van Eyken, Mary Humphreys and Anahata and so on, playing to a packed and enraptured house, is the Moaning Minnies stuffing up whoever it is you think they're stuffing up and filled with concerts from 'their own' which not a great deal of people will attend?

Oh really?

Ever been there, by the way? Or are you just guessing?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: johnadams
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:53 AM

On the homepage it says "designed by Bryan Ledgard" who I have certainly seen about the place taking pics although I know not to be on the staff but who has a lot of input (though perhaps not actually employed by) those Oldham purveyors of schlock.

Bryan Ledgard runs the company that sets the magazine, the journal and some of the books. He does the jobs he's paid to do and also some as a volunteer. He's a highly valued member of the team with excellent design skills and a proven commitment to the work of the society. As far as I know he has no influence in or over the broadcast media production company you mention and they have no connection with or influence over the society.

This thread seems to be reaching the end of its useful life and I have work to do.

Cheers.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 May 09 - 08:57 AM

Anyone who wants to promote an event featuring these or any other artists has only to hire one of the halls and get on with it. Such a happening would have no bearing whatsoever on the need (or otherwise) for a marketing director responsible for the future direction of the society. Though re-opening the shop might.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:04 AM

Has lizziecornish ever been to C#?
No, of course not or she'd have been aware that the shop was shut down, nay dismantled, years ago and that there are not (fortunately) any commercial premises "across the road" that could be used as a "pay-to-play" hangout for overgrown adolescents who think the world owes them a living for playing stuff that should never be allowed across the thresholds of their bedrooms.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:16 AM

Ah...but you see...I'd open the shop up again..and WHAT a shop it would be!!

I'd also bring in acoustic music to Cecil's Joint..in FACT, that'd be a real cool name for it!

Cecil's Joint...

Sooo much better than the boring ol' Cecil Sharp House..Gee Whizz! I can't think why I've not thought of that before?

Oh poo. Ralph Vaughan Williams, nice chappie though he probably was, is not a very inspirational name for a concert is it? I mean??? Come ON.

'THE ORGASMIC FOLK MUSMIC SHOW' - starring Show of Hands, Eliza Carthy, Seth Lakeman, Jackie Oates, Lisa Knapp, Cara Dillon, Jim Causley,(swoooon) The Demon Barbers, Jon Boden, Fay Hield, Tim Van Eyken...AND...THE OYSTERBAND....brings you music to reach the parts that even the Shropshire Bedlams can't reach!'

Oh yesss....I am sooooo warming to being the new Marketing Directory Lady

:0)

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:21 AM

"....and, getting back together especially for THE ORGASMIC FOLK MUSMIC SHOW we are proud to present EQUATION, the Folk Supergroup, starring....yessss..ALL those fabulous Lakeman Brothers, Cara Dillon, Kathryn Roberts and Kate Rusby!

Also, a Special Appearance will be made by Martyn Joseph, just recently returned from yet another Sold Out Tour of Canada!

Buy your tickets fast, because they are selling like Hot Morris Men!"

;0)

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:33 AM

"Leveller: Check out this Gibson....Sounds like you have a winner! "


Thanks for that, Guest RnB - same guirtar, same amp and the same sound. Nice isn't it?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: theleveller
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:44 AM

"Me doesn't have a degree, nor an underdegree, not even a degree under me...nor a graduate,"

I haven't seen the ad but if they are asking for someone with a marketing degree, they are probably eliminating about 95% of the most suitable applicants. In 40 years of being associated with marketing I still hardly ever come across anyone with a marketing degree - and the ones that do are mostly still "babbies". If top marketing people do have degrees, it's usually something totally unrelated to their current position, Geography seems to be the most popular for some reason.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folknacious
Date: 10 May 09 - 09:54 AM

Lizzie: answer the question. Have you ever been to an event at Cecil Sharp House? Did you go to the Young Coppers album launch, the RVW celebration, Jim Moray's concert in Feb, the St George's Day concert? If not, stop being Queen Of The Dimwit Moaners and go for a long, long swim . . . because as ever you have no f***ing idea what you are talking about!

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:07 AM

You'd not drag me over the threshold of the place...sorry mate.

Jim Moray? Nope, I won't go to a gig of his, not until Jim works out that to join in denying Freedom of Speech to people is wrong. It ain't rocket science. He's been taken over by the MM's. very sad.
Sorry Jim, but I'm still fuming over that. I do however, accept apologies that are sincerely meant.

Folknacious, why don't you get yourself a good dollop of humour? I doubt you'd find much of it at Cecil Sharply though..could be wrong of course.

And...as for this:

"...because as ever you have no f***ing idea what you are talking about!..."

Wanna bet? I could write things about this music that would make *you* froth at the mouth with rage, but it'd make thousands of people froth at the mouth with eager anticipation to discover a music so beautiful. Sadly, some of those who inhabit, and er..perform at Cecil Sharply, have taken it upon themselves to ensure that I don't get to write about it in the very place that drew more people in than any other, once upon a time.

So, I gave up writing about it.

May I suggest you stick your little head up your little traddie arse and keep your own mouth shut? OR..you could go over to the BBC board and join in the thread I started over there about whether folk music is living or dying, the most popular thread in AGES...sadly, I can't join in, despite starting the bloody thing. But, such is what some of the inhabitants of Cecil Sharply so desire..

Thank oo so much.


Yup, I know Joe..."Lizzie, you're not welcome in this thread any longer"...ad infinitum.

......and so...the music went back to being hidden.

Sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:09 AM

Sadly, I've decided to turn this job down.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:27 AM

".....and so...the music went back to being hidden."

Hardly! Lots of young folk bands emerging now, and young boys and girls picking up on trad English music. And some most interesting left-field folk being created by artistic young bands captivated by traditional folk songs and folk-lore. As Folkarts England say:

"There has never been a better time to get involved with folk music. There are certainly now more people on the stage, in the admin office, writing the reviews and providing back up than ever before. [...]
There are more festivals with bigger audiences, more record labels, more radio stations prepared to play our music. Local & national magazines and newspapers are printing reviews and stories about us and our music, dance and song. Folk is being taken seriously.
Street Theatre and Dancing in the public eye is still a first class vehicle to bring in a new audience and now when they come in, we can deliver a music that has Folk - appeal, is easy listening and is attractive. The likes of KATE RUSBY, SETH LAKEMAN, CARA DILLON, ELIZA CARTHY, BELLOWHEAD, MORRIS OFFSPRING, WHAPWEASEL, and many more are doing this and breaking boundaries all the time."

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Folknacious
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:27 AM

I'll take that as a "no" then.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 10 May 09 - 10:45 AM

I would say from reading this thread that the shop does need to be reopened. Ideally a place for visiting musicians and dancers to provide daily surgeries / workshops should be arranged.

I would like to see a wider involvement as well. Tourists don't only visit London. The EFDSS should build strong partnership links with the Tourism and Leisure Services of every county in England. There needs to be communication between Education Officer tied to those Tourism & Leisure Services. Of course the local Tourism & Leisure Services need to take a stronger interest and support the tradtional song and dance in their respctive areas, but the EFDSS rep could be the person to push this.

My BA degree (English and Education), experience information/communications (web and print publications)and keen interest in trad and roots music and dance is not enough to overcome age health issues which impair my mobility. I don't think I can cope with the commute and other required travel to do the job properly. Otherwise I would jump on this job.

I hope they get a candidate who will really raise the profile of not only the Society but traditional dance and song in general across the UK.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 May 09 - 11:22 AM

I love the vitality in your post Crow Sister...but the 'us' part worries me.

The whole point of the last 5/6/7 years or so that I've been raving about this music is that it's NOT the music of a select club. There is no 'them and us', there is only 'we' and the music belongs to us ALL, regardless of accents, gypsy heritage, middle-england villages, bank balances etc...along with all the other inverted snobby ideas that surround the music as being 'ours'.

It's everyone's but somehow, it became 'ours', as in 'yours', not 'mine'. How the hell that happened I've no idea, well..I do, but I'd get told off in this thread for telling you. I'll start a new thread...

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 May 09 - 11:33 AM

Clearly the 'us' in the Folkarts England peice Crow Sister quotes refers to all the people making, promoting, listening to and enjoying the music. It's nothing sinister and doesn't imply an excluded 'them'. I'm not and never have been a folkie and have no desire to become one (labels don't really become me...) but have never felt like I've been left out of someone else's party when I've listened to folk music. It's only music.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 May 09 - 11:58 AM

Apologies for contributing to the thread drift. I hope the EFDSS finds a good candidate for the job. I work for a partnership between the NHS and a small health and social care charity and know that charities a) haven't got a lot of cash to throw around unless they're one of the biggies; b) can often attract skilled people for that kind of money; and c) should and do take a distinctive and different approach to promoting themselves and doing business than both the private and public sectors... thus making comparisons with those sectors slightly off the mark.

Good luck. I wish the job was in the North West!

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 09 - 03:44 PM

I worry about anyone who STILL thinks that "Xxxxx's Joint" is a trendy name.

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 10 May 09 - 04:02 PM

Hi Dave, your link into the EFDSS job description has gone tits up can you revive please?

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 May 09 - 05:54 AM

Anyone who believes that marketing an event comprises of booking the best names and bubbling over with enthusiasm deserves to be given the job. If only to bring them back to earth...

DeG

Subject: RE: Marketing the EFDSS - Job going.
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 16 May 09 - 07:19 AM

Just to add - my comment was not a criticism of the website (I haven't used it enough to know), but a kneejerk response to what Richard said about it being hard to find the job description. That kind of thing is the test of a good website though.

Sue