BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 06:21 PM

Smedley.....I think you know exactly what I mean,
I thought you wanted a serious discussion....with a few smiles thrown in.
If so dont get into the trap of being blatently abusive. look as the posts above, see how they get more and more strident, more incoherent: and it's nothing to do with commitment.....it's just lack of reason and control.

I would be happy to discuss what I posted with you, but I think, because of the "support" you are receiving, you are perhaps playing to the gallery?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 06:22 PM

Gallery schmallery, I'm merely seeking clarification.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 06:23 PM

In other words, Ake thinks that 95.4% is a minority.


DUH!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 06:29 PM

Here is Ake's reasoning.


-Gay men risk catching HIV when they have unprotected sex with other gay men which could lead to them dying of Aids later in life,

-therefore Homosexuality for them is an unhealthy lifestyle that should be discouraged and homosexual mens rights should be curtailed to protect them.


I can apply the same reasoning as follows.


-Straight Women risk catching HPV when they have unprotected sex with men which could lead to them dying of cervical cancer later in life,

-therefore Heterosexuality for them is an unhealthy lifestyle that should be discouraged and heterosexual womens rights should be curtailed to protect them.


In fact, both positons are utter bollocks and the answer in both cases is to use a condom.


DUH!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 06:39 PM

Well as you are obviously a thespian, I thought it might have come naturally :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 06:48 PM

"the hetero lifestyle in most cases involves the production and nurturing of natural children, leading to an extended family system."

Most cases?

I see ...

"The study of 11,161 people between the ages of 16 and 44 from across the UK found that a minority - one in five men and one in four women - have had one sexual partner over the course of their lives."


DUH!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 06:57 PM

From this article


""Teenagers these days are very casual about sex. They're happy to have sex with anyone they meet - they use phrases like 'let's play together?'

"I gave away vouchers for free STD tests to girls, and found that 82% them were infected.

"It's incredible. I suspect a lot of them may have HIV as well." "



So what should we conclude?


Heterosexuality among young women is unhealthy?


Or that kids need to be properly educated about using a condom.


DUH!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 06:58 PM

"Well as you are obviously a thespian, I thought it might have come naturally :0) "


Geddit .. Thespian sounds like Lesbian ...


DUH!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: mauvepink
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 07:46 PM

"All males, hetero and homo are naturally sexual predators, but the hetero lifestyle in most cases involves the production and nurturing of natural children, leading to an extended family system."

I do not actually think that all males are sexual predators. Is it possible you meant something different because I think sexual predation certainly does not fit the majority of men. All men (well, most I suppose) are capable of rape but that does not mean they are all rapists.

As to the production and nurturing of "natural children" leading to an extended family system. I have no idea of the figures but have you any idea how many absent (by choice) fathers of children there are in the UK alone and how many single mothers have multiple fathers to their offspring, none of which are present in the extended family system? There are a great many single parent families in the country so I suspect that hetrosexuality is not in itself responsible for any extended family system. To my way of thinking the only thing that would lead to an really good extended family system is the love, respect and responisbility of two people bringing up children they want and love. Whether those parents be straight or gay does not matter. This is no insult to single parents either. Things happen for all sorts of reasons. I do however point out the high incidence to show that the production and nurturing of children is not inclusive. They do not always go hand in hand.

THAT SAID... there are lots of single parents out there who have children they love and provide a great family background and home without a partner. Some of these single parent families may actually be better off without the other partner there. Love, respect and responsibility do not necessarily go along with being straight.

For clarity what, to you, is the 'extended family system'? Finally. What did you mean by 'natural children'? The expression puzzles me exceedingly so I thought to ask what you mean by it rather than assume anything about the comment.

Thanks

mp

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 07:56 PM

"ebbie and Jim.....the remark you quoted, was from a singer and songwriter,"
Sorry, I wasn't quoting anybody and I don't get to hear too many singer-songwriters - you'll have to enlighten me.
I don't believe it to be an accident that the most sexually-obsessive organisation on this planet, the church, managed to produce, cover up and protect the world's largest, most persistant and longest lasting paedophile ring. While attempting to judge and control the sexual behaviour of their congregations (using pretty much the same arguments as our resident 'phobes'), they were also raping and abusing their children on a massive scale.
Says everything that needs to be said about all such people.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 10:25 PM

Ake wages a desperate selfless campaign to protect homosexuals from AIDS, but cares not a whit for the far more endangered Swazis of all genders and ages.

What an ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 12 Jan 10 - 11:08 PM

"ebbie and Jim.....the remark you quoted, was from a singer and songwriter,"

Is this the quote? I quoted only Jim Carroll. Who is this singer and songwriter?

"It always seems to me that people who concern themselves with what goes on in other people's bedrooms must be very discontented at what goes on in their own."

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 02:55 AM

To clarify (in the hope of short-cutting more back-and-forth on this minor point) - several posts ago (middle of the previous page?), a contributor who is not (unlike me) one of the crazy band of regulars on this thread, offered an attemptedly humorous comment about homosexuality being 'made compulsory'.   Jim picked up on this, Ake responded to Jim, offering the (alleged) musical ability of the original 'joker' as significant in some way.

Hey ho.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 03:49 AM

Thanks for clearing that up Smedley.
So we're back to the pair of sickos who get it off by peering through other people's bedroom windows then?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 03:54 AM

Looks like it.......

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 10:35 AM

""Selfish sexual gratification" seems to describe what is practiced by the vast majority of homosexuals.""


I was unaware that you had such a close acquaintance with "the vast majority" of homosexuals, or is it just that you read minds at long distance?

Be very careful Ake. With each post you make, your true agenda becomes increasingly obvious.

As to your complaints about personal abuse, I will only make one comment. Having been called a prat, and a liberal fascist, and told that my contributions to this and other threads are worthless and undeserving of consideration, I can only agree with the poster above who rightly called you a fuckwit.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 02:13 PM

"The vast majority" of Indians walk in a single file.

At least the one I saw did. . . .

(Just passing through.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 03:01 PM

Smedley.... Depite what Lox writes, my use of "thespian" and "playing to the gallery" was small attempt at humour, as I assumed, that having reviewed a stage play you must have had quite a bit of theatrical experience.

Puns, especially hurtful ones are not my forte.

I have given up on most on this thread; as you've possibly noticed, I have stopped responding to several posters because they have become so offensive that gnu, one of my strongest critics has spoken against them

Mauvepink seems sincere and deserves an answer, but you dont do your cause any good by joining the rabble in comments like   "So we're back to the pair of sickos who get it off by peering through other people's bedroom windows then?"

I left this thread a couple of weeks ago, but the sight of the usual suspects clucking like hens on a midden proved too much to stand.

So it is not Sanity or I who are keeping this thread alive, but the spiteful and aggressive....oh so "liberals".

MP I'll get back later..... and you too Smedley....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 03:17 PM

"So it is not Sanity or I who are keeping this thread alive, but the spiteful and aggressive....oh so "liberals"."
It is you and your redneck friend who are spiteful and aggressive.
It is you who are judgemental over what is now a done deal - homosexuality is legal, and has been for forty years. It is redneck fanatics like yourselves who still keep the flame of homophobia burning by spreading your poisonous intolerance.
Your kind continue to spread misery and hatred toward people who have in no way attempted to influence you as to their sexual affinities - can you say the same?
"MP I'll get back later..... and you too Smedley....Ake"
Don't hold your breath folks - he promised the same to me when he was attempting to divert our attention from clerical abuse - and didn't, of course.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 03:27 PM

"they have become so offensive that gnu, one of my strongest critics has spoken against them"

In fact, Gnu has gone out of his way to reassure me that my earlier apology was unnecessary.


DUH!



"So it is not Sanity or I who are keeping this thread alive, but the spiteful and aggressive....oh so "liberals"."


Thats right Ake, your posts don't keep this thread alive, only "liberal" posts have that effect.


DUH!



Ironically, the actual catalyst for the restart of this thread was Joe Offers post concerning African attitudes.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: gnu
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 03:56 PM

Now, now... do not taketh the name of gnu in vanity.

Thanks for the heads up. Heheheehee... nah... hahahaaa....

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 04:12 PM

Well gnu, I hope you told Lox who the apology should have been directed to!

But I won't hold my breath, as he already owes me an apology for attributing the "colourful" description of homosexual rape, provided by ebbie....to me

Despite being called three times, he has neither the balls nor the brains to apologise.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Charlotte-Anne Wells
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 06:06 PM

Reading this thread a song comes to mind that everyone should listen to. "The Killing of Georgie". It tells a story, of a homosexual guy and how people all over the world, miss a friend.

I spend a lot time with young gay dancers, as part of my photography gigs in clubs. These young men are my friends, dance partners, models and co-conspirators in art. I hear stories all the time of fathers who can't accept their sons, mothers who stand in the middle holding on hard to both husband and child, sons who are still coming out and facing who they are in a world where gay bashing still happens regularly.

I'm bisexual, out and very happy with my life. Granted, I mostly date men these days, but my sexual identity is more than a hobby – its a political statement, that in some places could put me in great danger. And while I can straddle both gay and straight worlds, it does not armour me from the hateful words I hear daily about homosexualitI do speak out, but not all minds and ears are open to hearing a different perspective.I know the wrong word to the wrong person could get me in trouble, but that can't keep me silent.

I hold this space for my friends, bash back when needed, cheer loudly when its needed, and feel compassion for those who still find alternative sexual identities dangerous. We are such lovely, brave people, full of a desire to love and be loved, and yet we cause fear – a deep, primal fear in some cases.


Are we that scary that we fit in the same category as a terrorist? You mean loving and being loved is terrorism? Think on it…

Please listen to the song by Rod Stewart.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 07:43 PM

"Despite being called three times, he has neither the balls nor the brains to apologise."

I think you're the one lacking the brains mate.

Or you might have figured out by now that I see no reason to apologize to you.

If anything my abhorrance of your putrid jingoism has multiplied severalfold.


DUH!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 09:23 PM

Ake refers to the "colourful" description of rape that I offered up.

I din't mean it to be 'colorful', only graphic. It was in response to ake's fairly light-hearted reference to rape and what rape a heterosexual person/man would choose if he had to.

Well, I don't think that the term "rape" or the horrific act itsef is a joking matter. That is why I went into some detail; rape is NOT a simple sexual event- it is a hostile act of dominance.

So, "put that in your pipe and shove it"- as a person who frequently mixes metaphors said the other day.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:05 PM

Oh, my my! I guess if I got your goat, you must have a goat to be gotten!

I read the sniping rhetoric, and peace loving threats, and all it does is solidify, and prove what I've been telling you.

Look, I'm talking about compassion...you call it hate.

I'm talking about the free will for a homosexual, to decide to be hetero, and you call it homophobia. Not only that, our resident newsboy, wants to deny you to desire, want, or grant yourselves permission, to be what you want, if it crosses his political thinking. Hmmm...Then he calls it being 'liberal'. That's interesting! Something to think about. Maybe it isn't as 'liberal' as you've been led to believe...the political left, is going to dictate what you're allowed to desire(?)!

Personally, me thinks, that for him to be Mr. Political 'civil rights' champion, is just a ruse he tells himself, to make him feel important, and needed, no matter who he deceives, including himself, because that's all he's got. ....and who does he get to applaud him?? People who are stuck with the belief, that life doesn't get any better! Way to go!.....find people who have half the instincts of living organisms on this ball in space, called Earth, and tell them having half the attributes of life, gives them the right to convince those who Do have both the instincts, to accept their lack of completeness, and call it 'normal',..and we who are, must hate them, because we prefer the wholeness that we already have! This is utter nonsense!

Another personal side note, these political hacks want to tell us how to live our lives, what to accept, what to want, what we can say, what we can think, then get into stupid name calling, if we can see that they are just very little people, trying to hide their shattered egos, with self proclaimed 'noble' causes....when they have NEVER even raised their own kids! ...and you want to tell me about life????
Hey, to the self appointed mystics, and politicians and the such, If you have NEVER mounted a woman, and with her hearty help, and with full intention, conceived, brought forth a child, raised it successfully, with her hearty help, into mature adult life, you can just jerk off, get whomever you want to help you, and howl at the moon. You might know a lot less about life than you've deluded yourselves into thinking! You're a lightweight!!!!

Now, do I think that is the prerequisite for that I want everybody to be like??...NO! It's just those who can do it, and have done it, know, without a shadow of a doubt, that the little squeaky voices of the frail in will, or blinded to the longer point of reference, who want to suck their thumbs, (or other...never mind), stroking each other till you outlive your age of usefulness ....Well, pardon me, if you think you've had a higher experience!..Sorry, you haven't! Don't tell me, or others what to think, want, say, or what they can or can't achieve, or how fuckin' hip you are..you ain't! Be a 'political' activist, so you can FEEL important. recruit supporters from those you can't or won't help! You WANT them where they are, for your own sense of self importance, because, unless as you can keep them down, you've got nothing to say or do.....yes, it IS all about you!....Instead of developing the ability to honestly help any one, you keep them from desiring higher, and hipper things that you missed out on!...and once they hip themselves to that, you're clocked as a lame! That's why the ex-homosexuals, don't even want to go there, or deal with those who are. Who wants to go back to third grade??

Do I hate homosexuals? NO! Read it again...NO! Actually, its the furthest thing on my mind, except when I get on here, and read the gaggling and whining, and some of you stroking each other. Get a life....or at least, explore the other mysterious side, that you know nothing about!


Oh, and by the way, how could I pass this one up........

Don:"...So—there's an end to it, GfS!! Get your mind out of the gutter."

So yours can roll by??????

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:33 PM

GfS, you have confused me (which I'll admit isn't terribly difficult).

You said "If you have NEVER mounted a woman, and with her hearty help, and with full intention, conceived, brought forth a child, raised it successfully, with her hearty help, into mature adult life, you can just jerk off" -- indicating as it seems there is something wrong with those people who have not done this series of undertakings. With some vehemence, I might add.

And yet you say, "Now, do I think that is the prerequisite for that I want everybody to be like??...NO!"

You don't want them to be like that, and yet if they aren't, you're hostile to them. Which is it? Do you really think it's okay for them to follow their own path? Or does their doing so make them so despicable (if that's the right word -- choose one you prefer) that you can tell them to jerk off?

Please explain to me which you mean.

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:47 PM

"I guess if I got your goat, you must have a goat to be gotten!"

Listen up. I've been looking for my goat for days. WHERE IS IT?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:49 PM

That was an attempt--albeit weak--to inject a modicum of humour into what is on occasion a thoroughly nasty thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:57 PM

Mouser, Sorry..and by the way, I SHALL get back to you regarding the link just that my time at present is limited.

What I was saying, that you inquired about, is, when someone who wants to assume power over other people, and dictate to them about life, unless they have experienced life, on that level(which many don't), don't tell us who have, what your interpretation, of how our lives should be..what we can think, desire, hope for, or what's best for us. They haven't a clue, as far as their personal experience...except spouting idealistic, uninformed, non-experienced, opinions of what is 'good' for us. I'm not hostile toward them, but rather annoyed, that they become a parody of themselves!...then try to tell us 'where its at'! They are light weights, afraid of life...with big mouths.
GfS

Sorry, if that was unclear. If its still not, clarifying it further should be a blast!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 13 Jan 10 - 11:58 PM

999, where'd you last see it?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 12:11 AM

THAT would be telling and likely open me up to the wrath of animal rights activists. LOL

Thanks for asking, GfS.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 12:19 AM

Yeah, then they'll tell you that having horny goats is cruel...especially if they want to mate with each other!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 12:54 AM

GfS, nobody but you and Ake are trying to tell people how they should live.

I haven't hear anyone here on this thread say that a gay person who is unhappy with his or her sexual orientation should not go to a qualified threrapist. All I am saying is that so far such attempts have not been spectacularly successful and have often led to undesirable—in some cases disastrous—results (depression and suicide). Anyone who contemplates "reversion therapy" should be aware of the possible risks and pitfalls before undertaking such a venture.

My quarrel is with those such as you and Richard Cohen who insist that gays should or must seek this kind of help rather than going ahead and living life their own way if this is what they want to do. I am especially disturbed by the fact that the writings of Richard Cohen, a man with no credentials—in short, as self-styled "therapist"—are being used to support the Ugandan atrocities.   And that, even though you may deplore what's going on in Uganda, you strenuously support Richard Cohen.

If two people of the same sex wish to form a domestic partnership—indeed, a marriage—I see no reason that they should not be allowed to do so. And that is the matter that started this whole brouhaha in the Proposition 8 thread and continued on into this one.

Is that so difficult for you to grasp?

And Ake. He keeps talking about the high rated of transmission of HIV among homosexual men, claiming that his heart bleeds for them. And yet he wants to deny them the very thing that would encourage stable, single partner relationships.

Is it any wonder that the word "hypocrite" keeps coming to mind?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 01:28 AM

Don: "I haven't hear anyone here on this thread say that a gay person who is unhappy with his or her sexual orientation should not go to a qualified threrapist." All I am saying is that so far such attempts have not been spectacularly successful and have often led to undesirable—in some cases disastrous—results (depression and suicide). Anyone who contemplates "reversion therapy" should be aware of the possible risks and pitfalls before undertaking such a venture."

There you go again.....Hey all you out there who might want the experience in life of bringing forth your own children, you might suffer depression and commit suicide!!

I only said, those who would WANT to evolve a little higher, than to have their highest experience in life, more than that of having their dicks stuck in someones poop!

Don:"My quarrel is with those such as you and Richard Cohen who insist that gays should or must seek ...blah blah blah"

Never said that. That's your interpretation. My post about Cohen was to show it was possible, when you were promoting the genetic thing..which, BTW, you later discredited with your own post(link from Boston)...along with other theories, which also that same post discredited.

Don: "If two people of the same sex wish to form a domestic partnership—indeed, a marriage"

Head on.....but don't insult marriage by calling it such....its just two people of the same sex, who can't get it on with the other sex, living and having sex together. Be happy and prosper...well sorta'.
If that's as high as you can get, fine. My deepest sympathies, that that's as high as you think you can experience.

Let me tell you a personal side note, (I seldom do that),..we delivered our children at home, alone..just us..and breathed their first breath into them, it was a rather sacred experience. Their isn't a time, when either of us hear the initial crack, of a newborn's cry, that our eyes don't fill with tears. Its awesome, and its an extension of your own life, and lineage, that was granted to you, to be conscientiously responsible for. We have met that responsibility, and have nurtured them to responsible adults who have children of their own. Our son, has deliver 6 of his 7, at home, alone, breathing their first breath of life into them, as well. Not only that, they are their first and only, and are still actively in love with each other, as if they were in their first year of marriage. Both of them glow, and have been used as examples, in the community that they live. All, of our kids, have their own children, own their own homes, and are the tightest families, you may have ever seen. If I could possibly share with you all, the fullness of life and joy that it brings us, I wish I could. It is a wealth, I wish could be shared with all.

I'll leave on a smiling note.
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 01:40 AM

So, GofS, are you saying that people who are for some reason unable to have children -- say, someone born naturally sterile, or a woman who has had to have a hysterectomy due to uterine cancer, are lower than people who reproduce?

You seem to think homosexuals who like being homosexuals and are content so being, are "lower" than people who have kids, and you want to encourage them to "evolve higher". So are sterile heteros who haven't and will never reproduce also "lower" than you? Why or why not?

O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 01:47 AM

Mouser, No, they are not lower. But those who opt out, for merely sex, moreover, sex with those of the same gender, are ripping themselves off.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 03:50 AM

So, GfS has several grandchildren.

Who wants to join me in being a fly on the wall when one of them comes out as gay ??

Still, at least GfS has nailed their colours unequivocally to the mast. Anyone who chooses not to reproduce is inferior. And, it seems, the prime imperative to reproduce is to sustain and inflate one's own ego. Mmmm, real unselfish.

GfS, of course, has shown on so many occasions the nobility of thought and depth of insight only attainable by the breeding kind.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 03:56 AM

You don't allow for personal differences, GfS. I take your points; I am delighted you have had so ideal & fulfilling a family life. I had a wonderful ½-century marriage [see my recent post on the Do You Believe In Fate? thread]. We expected to have a family when we married; but after achieving her life's ambition of a higher education as a mature student my wife had an early menopause; so the children never happened along. Fortunaely we loved one another enough to be reasonably reconciled to this — it was not a grave disappointment to either of us, tho if we had reproduced the children would certainly have been welcomed & loved. But our loving partnership for all those years, until my darling's death a couple of years ago which I shall never cease from grieving tho I live another 22 years to 100, fulfilled our emotional needs.

And I have at least three pairs of homosexual friends, two male and one female, among my closest friends, all of them 'Civil-Partnered' under current UK law, who have all precisely the sort of relationship which my darling Valerie & I had: David and Brian, Ben & Dick, Mandy & Nicola, are all, I assure you, as happy in their relationships as were Valerie and I — and, in turn, tho in a different way, as were you and your life-partner with your children and grandchildren. We are all different — do not, please, go on being so prescriptive as to what brings fulfilment. There is more than one path.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 04:25 AM

MtheGM, thank you for that very eloquent post. GfS will, I fear, dismiss it as "banal", which is what s/he labelled any points I tried to make about the fulfilment of same-sex relationships.

Reproduction is, it seems, all that counts.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 05:36 AM

MtheGM, My condolences to you, and I mean that most sincerely. I have had a few close friendships with homosexuals too. If you have followed any of my posts, during the Prop 8 thread, I wrote about one, who was a musical, and sound engineering genius, and that's not an exaggeration! Both Dale, (the engineer/musician), and his partner, Mark, are dead now..died of AIDS, both of them. A terrific loss. During the time we did music together, he felt safe enough to open up to me. You think, I've been harsh on calling bullshit bullshit, he was phenomenal!..and he didn't take crap from other homosexuals either...especially the ones who colored their sexual 'orientation' as being anything other, than what it really was/is.

I'm not going to go into it, at this time, 'cause it's late, and I've been working in the studio. I just came up, and checked the thread before I went to bed. I posted on the 'Fate' thread, as well. I'll go check yours out, now. Good night.

Smeds, breeders???? Well it beats being suicidal,and proud of it!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:03 AM

Suicidal, GfS ? Another gratuitous insult to add to your swelling collection.   Although your bilious spew does nudge me close to feeling murderous.

Did your 'close gay friend' know that you regarded him, presumably throughout your 'friendship', that you regarded him as intrinsically inferior to you and your indiscriminately fecund brood ?

I have sent your paragraph about the sacredness of childbirth to the manufacturers of those greetings cards that pose silhouetted eagles soaring over a sickly verse. They might be able to use it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:05 AM

GfS

When I came back to this thread the argument seemed to revolved around Ake &/or you claiming that gay men were uniquely prone to, and responsible for, disease.

That was proven to be utter crap - if it was ever true it was only coincidentally true in the Western developed world because HIV happened to appear in the gay community. It was never true elselwhere and now the heterosexual West is catching up big-time.

So then you said, to paraphrase, that gay men could not form relationships and could never achieve much because they can't raise children and families.

That was also proven to be utter, utter rubbish. Gay people can and do raise children - either naturally conceived, artificially conceived or fostered/adopted. The same range of options available to straight couples. And it was pointed out to you that it's hardly easy for gay people to have their relationships supported and respected because of PEOPLE LIKE YOU filled with such hate and bile towards them.

So then you seemed to retreat to the fact that gay people were "less" than you because they can't emulate your "Little house on the Prairie" breeding choices. But many could, if they wished. The point is still fatuous.

So when MtheGM explained that he and his partner had been denied some reproductive choice by fate (and being gay is fate also), you were full of sympathy and agreed that, of course, one cannot judge or denigrate people because of a trick of fate that denied them your "ideal" life experience.

So with that out of the way, you have now retreated to the position that you regard gay men as nothing more than people whose...

"highest experience in life...[is]...having their dicks stuck in someones poop!"

Well, I'd rather have poop down there than filling my head, shit for brains.

So, GfS has finally nailed its colours to the mast. Good old fashioned bilious homomphobe who just seeks to reduce people, hopes, expectations and lives to a sexual act - which is an ubiquitous sexual act amongst men and women of whatever orientation in any event.

And, GfS, don't come here now with the tired old "I'm not homomphobic, some of my best friends are gay..." line. That's just so passé. That you once bumped into a tragic self hating gay guy who chimed with and reinforced your prejudices, means diddly squat.

Guess what, most gay people don't have HIV and don't die from AIDS. They have rewarding relationships and families - increasingly their own offspring - and that experience could be extended to many more if sickos like you would stop sabotaging progress and stop denigrating your fellow citizens.

Isn't the case now closed?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:21 AM

And just to pre-empt GfS complaining I edited her words, the full line is:

I only said, those who would WANT to evolve a little higher, than to have their highest experience in life, more than that of having their dicks stuck in someones poop!

So she sees gay people as needing or wanting to evolve [how patronising is that??] higher than their [present] highest experience. More than that [the experience] of having their dicks...

QED

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 08:53 AM

The other revealing thing about GfS' 'poop' comment is it shows that both s/he and Ake are obsessed with one sexual act, which (lke all those who have, erm, issues with homosexuality) they assume is the primary and defining form of erotic congress for all gay men.

This overlooks three somewhat crucial facts:
(a) straight folks do it too (and most who try it, really like it)
(b) not all gay men do it
(c) even those gay men who do do it, also do other things.

Over the years, this has puzzled me, but the conclusion I've reached is that they must see it as defining of gay male sexuality because they see vaginal intercourse as defining of heterosexuality as a 'perverse equivalent'. Consequently, nipping in through the back door becomes the focus of their contempt.

Years ago, when I was helping to run the 'gay rights' group (for shorthand) at university, we had a run-in with some fundamentalist Christians. "We offer you God's love", they said "but we cannot condone the act". Please note, THE act, singular. As if that's all we do. I remember telling them 'we get up to LOTS more than just that', but this didn't go down too well. If you'll pardon the expression......

Twenty-odd years later, here are GfS and Ake (the Laurel and Hardy of homophobia, or perhapd the Desi and Lucy) still rattled and traumatised by one sexual act above all others.

(Ake at least has his HIV rhetoric to fall vack on, since unprotected anal intercourse is undoubtedly a high-risk option these days. GfS cares nothing about health - s/he is all about loathing.)

And then they have the temerity to call *me* names.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 09:26 AM

For clarification, in the first line of my third paragraph, there shoud be a comma after 'heterosexuality'. And of course 'vack' should be 'back'.

You have to be careful what you say around here.........

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 04:03 PM

"I remember telling them 'we get up to LOTS more than just that', but this didn't go down too well. If you'll pardon the expression......"


Well smedley. thanks for bringing this back to the important issue that I raised earlier concerning the wonton 'visiting of museums', 'having a nice meal' and 'relaxing on the beach' that you and your partner shamelessly indulged in whilst on your recent holiday.

I am Shocked!!!!

Next you'll be telling us that sometimes you 'talk about your day at work'!!!!

Pervert!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 05:40 PM

Royston.....which is it with you.   Blind or nuts?
Did you not even look at the figures I posted, from your source for the UK?

A homosexual in the UK is almost 80 times more likely to contract hiv/aids, than a hetero UK citizen(excluding those from sub Saharan Africa).

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 05:55 PM

Lox, I am so sorry.

I have to confess that I recent ate a cheese and chutney sandwich.........homosexually.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Jan 10 - 06:03 PM

What has me shaking my head is GfS's contention that breeding like a gaggle of rabbits means that one is more highly evolved. If that were true, there are quite a number of species, say, for example, gerbils, who would have wiped out war, disease, achieved space flight, and attained Nirvana by now. Hell, my sister's miniature poodle used to pop them out nine at a time!

Just a little side note as a matter of interest. Here we are on a planet where the immense surge in human population within the past few centuries has raised some pretty serious Malthusian warnings from just about all of the sciences. As of today, the world population is swiftly approaching 6 billion, 800 million, and at the rate we're going, we'll top 7 billion sometime next year.

That "hockey stick" graph that people keep talking about. Barbara has a world population graph magneted to the refrigerator door with an arrow pointing at 6 billion, saying "You are here," and another arrow pointing at 9 billion, saying "You don't want to be HERE!" We'll hit that point well before the century is over.

Interesting to note that the Indonesian government, worried about the population explosion, particularly in their country, have tried to encourage homosexual relationships, hoping that this will put the brakes on the frightening increase in population.

It's not working! Sexual orientation is not a matter of flipping a coin!

Yet, GfS talks about the glories of indiscrinate breeding.

By the way, Ake, were you aware that men are 100% more likely to get prostate cancer than women?

Beam me up, Scotty! There's no intelligent life on this planet!

Don Firth