BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 01:39 PM

I always wanted to get one of those centuries.

Back to Keith, Kevin de Cock says that networks are more important than any other factor in defining who does and who does not get AIDS - all other factors being equal.

Bad behaviour is pretty universal - the heterosexual STI figures prove it.

You choose not to understand, that is your lookout.

The reason you choose not to understand is that you are an insidious and nasty little bigot. I make that my lookout. I'm watching everything you write!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:04 PM

Keith, I am not particularly following what appears to be a rather nit-picky discussion between you and Royston on the statistics in the UK. Earlier on, I was following the stats that Ake kept posting, and found them highly selective, and edited and interpreted in ways to support his biases. That included his distorting of stats that he picked up from the American CDC.

I do not see the current discussion between you and Royston as addressing the matter of the anti-homosexual laws in Uganda, or (harking back to the other thread) of same-sex marriage in the United States. Legalizing same-sex marriage would encourage the establishment of stable relationships and thereby tend to reduce promiscuity and the spread of sexually transmitted infections. Both Ake and GfS, express concern for the mental and physical health of homosexual men, yet they strenuously oppose what would be a major step toward the goal that they claim to espouse. Since human rights and civil rights—AND the reduction of STIs—are my primary interests here, I will leave the UK statistics up to the pissing match between you and Royston.

As to GfS's constant sniping at me, he has managed through his inability to remember what he already posted, to keep tripping over his own feet and contradicting himself. I find it rather ludicrous in the light of his penchant for talking out of both sides of his mouth, that HE keeps kvetching about MY devotion to matters of truth and personal integrity. He has more than amply demonstrated that he is either totally lacking in these things, or he is suffering from severe multiple personality disorder.

After throwing a number of tantrums during which he indulged in gross, scatological personal insults, (which, interestingly enough, displayed a tendency toward hysteria and—there is no other word for it—bitchiness), now he claims he is very happy and wishes me the best.

Well, thank you very much, GfS.

And I do hope you get your psychological problems worked out. I think if you would just relax, acknowledge your true nature, and embrace it, you will be much happier and far less prone to emotional outbursts.

And, Gfs . . . have a lovely day, sweet'ums (kiss kiss).

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 03:37 PM

Sorry, Don F.

Keith selects facts and opinions to support his prejudices. They often prove to be wrong.

Keith believes - he has told us this on a number of occasions - that he believes that the reason HIV affects different groups is because some people - gay men and black people - have sexual behaviour that "brings the disease on themselves, whereas white and straight people are protected by their higher, better standards of behaviour.

He tries to ignore that his own preferred experts deny this; and state rightly that diseases spread in, and can remain largely contained within, sexual networks. Gay people don't have sex with straight people and so largely keep their HIV misfortune to themselves. Ditto for recent African immigrants - although that group *might* be more "leaky" into the general heterosexual population, for fairly obvious presumptive reasons.

Straight white sexually-active people in their local nightlcub sexual networks are quite happily spreading other STI's by their unprotected sexual encounters - evidence by infection rates way above the HIV infection rate in gay men or in black people. The straight/white kids are simply epidemiologically lucky that HIV has not be introduced into their network. The individuals are fortunate - the reason they are fortunate is simple science.

But Keith will carry on saying that it isn't so. For the sake of his own agenda.

Or alternatively he will deny everything I have been saying and start prattling on about statistics again, which are irrelevant to this discussion about *why* some groups are at greater risk than others of contracting HIV.

My money is on the tired old statistics again.

We finished this a couple of weeks ago, and I partly regret letting Keith drag me back in. I should have left to his hand-job.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 04:23 PM

And Royston, I have long since finished with GfS. I find most of what he says rather like someone breaking wind loudly in church:   it displays a complete lack of control, general rudeness, or both, but in the Grand Scheme of Things, of no significance whatsoever.

Why don't we just wade out of this swamp and return to real life, and leave the terminally bewildered to stagger around by themselves?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 05:26 PM

I hear the bugles sound the retreat.

I hear the locking of wardrobe doors

It is indeed the end!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 07:02 PM

No, Ake, anything but retreat. Don't make the mistake of confusing being bored by trying to deal with the same old anti-gay propaganda you and GfS have been spouting all along. It's time that I quit wasting my time and apply my energies to bringing about the right conclusions to this issue in the real world. Which, incidentally, is swiftly leaving folks like you and GfS behind.

GfS, of course, will also charge in, do a little dance, and crow, "I've won! I've won!"

Well, if self-deception makes you guys happy, then have at it.

See ya! I've got some legislators to talk to!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 09:32 PM

Don: "It's time that I quit wasting my time and apply my energies to bringing about the right conclusions to this issue in the real world. Which, incidentally, is swiftly leaving folks like you and GfS behind.
GfS, of course, will also charge in, do a little dance, and crow, "I've won! I've won!"
Well, if self-deception makes you guys happy, then have at it.

See ya! I've got some legislators to talk to!"


Hmmmm, Gosh Don, how relentlessly gracious of you, but, it

Sounds like........

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 Mar 10 - 10:56 PM

If it makes you happy to think that, GfS, go right ahead. Frankly, I don't give a s**t. I have more important things to do than argue with empty-headed bigots.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 02:03 AM

Don: "If it makes you happy to think that, GfS, go right ahead. Frankly, I don't give a s**t. I have more important things to do than argue with empty-headed bigots."

Yeah, like trying to promote laws and legislation for things you KNOW are false????

Gad-zooks..haven't we had enough of that crap going on in this country?

Come on, what is so hard for you to want to allow homosexuals, who wish to not be homosexual, any longer, to go see a counselor??..I mean, if that's their choice, why not let them do it, and love them just the same? Besides, what business is it of yours who or what they want to do? I can't fathom why you, a self described 'liberal' would want to prohibit that...do you?

Hey, and I'm not being 'snipie' here....but it seems from your past posts, like there is something deeply personal, that offends you about homosexuals deciding they want to go straight.....if they want to.

I'm holding out an olive branch to you, here. Do you really think that way?...or was it the challenge of the debate?

Peace,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 02:28 AM

All that ranting and posting Royston, without addressing either of the issues I put to you.
1. You were wrong to state that HIV is starting to spread in the general population.
Our whole debate has been me establishing that and you not accepting it. (Yes Don F, nitpicking!)
And
2. You may have known that the apparent rise was due to the influx of Africans

MSMs are 90 times more at risk than the general population.
Whatever the reason, it is not "luck." Science and superstition do not mix.
Heteros have been catching the same virus since the start, but it only caused an epidemic among MSMs.

You are quick to ascribe hetero infection to their behaviour.
Your very first post."heterosexual communities are paying the greatest price for their loose morals and grotesque sexual hygiene"

I have never made comparable statements about gay or African people.
You are prejudiced against straight people.
Smedley is gay too, but he does not rant on like you.

I am happy that you will watch my posts.
You will learn more.
You will not find me posting any slander against any minority.
I am not the sort of person who does that.
You post all those bad things about me, with nothing from me to justify any of it.
You can not find one thing.
Can you Royston?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:08 AM

Yes, Keith, and my first post "grotesque sexual hygiene..." was just turning Ake's sentiments around - sauce for the goose, slight irony?

And just for the record - unlike you, I always state what I mean - I do believe that the cause of sexual tranmission of STI's and HIV in The West, where we have all the privileges of healthcare and education, is *often* the result of poor sexual hygiene and *possibly* poor morality - whether gay, straight, black or white.

The difference between me certain others around here is that I don't judge and pontificate about selecting some people for greater blame and others for punitive treatment. I would just rather see everyone educated, respected, protected and cared for.

You are the one ranting.

And I was spot on about the nature of your response.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:10 AM

And it hardly took you a day to start spouting your prejudice at me directly - telling me how you think I should behave now that you know I am gay.

Smedley and Royston are gay, all gays are the same, Royston and Smedley should be the same.

Take a close look at yourself!

I have, others are now learning about you as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:24 AM

Royston, in your 03.37 PM post you falsely claimed that I have made derogatory remarks about the behaviour of gay and African people.
Anyone reading you would think that you were quoting me, because you ACCIDENTLY dropped in one pair of a set of quotes.

But that requires two, simultaneous key strokes.
It was no accident.
It was deliberate, and calculated to deceive.

I would rather lose an argument than resort to such devious, despicable tactics.
That neatly and clearly illustrates the difference between you and me.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 03:28 AM

And, I have spouted no prejudice.
I have none.
I do not tell you how to behave because you are gay, but because your behaviour is unacceptable in anyone.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 04:09 AM

I'm happy to clarify, Keith, that the quote marks at 03:37pm were mine, I added them to try to indicate I was paraphrasing the way I understood your position.

You don't have to resort to lower 6th debating club tactics at all.

Keep going. as I say: Everyone is learning quite a lot about what lies beneath your faux-academic love of statistics.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 05:24 AM

I have never said anything remotely like that.
The whole statement is a lie about me.
The quotes compound the offence.
What does that tell us about you?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 05:27 AM

The offending statement.

Keith believes - he has told us this on a number of occasions - that he believes that the reason HIV affects different groups is because some people - gay men and black people - have sexual behaviour that "brings the disease on themselves,

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 06:57 AM

""Royston and Don T have been proved wrong on everything they have said.""


Only in your twisted fantasy world, Keith, and we respectfully decline to join you in there.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 07:11 AM

Don T, if I am wrong I do apologize.
Just remind of one thing you were right about and I will withdraw at once.
Not the spread of HIV into the general population.
Not the numbers of MSMs infected.
Not the undesirability of targetted testing.
What was it Don?
I may have missed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 07:20 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 09 Feb 10 - 06:12 PM


The difference between general population UK, effectively zero prevalence, and the MSMs and African born, is to do with their practices.

Are you saying that because we have established a community of people from Subsaharan Africa, that the locals are going to take up their customs??

Experience suggests that the reverse will happen as they slowly integrate.

There you have it.

Keith on how gays and blacks bring HIV on themselves by behaving more badly that whites and straights. But he believes, generously, that the blacks who come here may be able to improve themselves.

Contrary to the medical experts and the STI statistics for straight folks.

But then Keith never really lets fact get in the way of his prejudices. He just wants you all to think that he has no prejudices in order that whatever information he selects for you, appears to be true and impartial.

As I say, Keith, people are learning about you.

They already know about me - I have transparent points to make and I argue them. You try to hide your agenda. Not any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 07:32 AM

Yes Royston, and that is self evidently true.
But I express no blame, or opine that they brought it on themselves.
It is a difference of cultures.
And it is not "contrary to the medical experts"
Massive intervention is going on now in those communities to reduce their risk.
I posted links and quotes from two authoratative, current reports on that very subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 08:08 AM

A direct quote from one of the reports.
You can not castigate me for repeating expert testimony.
But, no blame. No "bringing it on themselves."

In particular, cultural practices that place some Africans at particular
risk of transmitting or acquiring HIV requires specific, culturally competent attention. Examples
include: perceptions of condoms, polygamy, meanings attached to sexual behaviours, reproduction,
breast-feeding and secrecy and taboos regarding sex and relationships.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 09:21 AM

Yes, Keith, *some* aspects of *some* outreach to *some* africans requires *some* culturally specific experience and context.

That is not what you said in your "practices" comment, that is not what you meant. You are back-pedalling on the racist part of your prejudice, not your homophobic views (yet).

Taking aside the breast feeding element of HIV transmission, the fact remains that heterosexual and homosexual HIV is spread primarily by unprotected genital sex.

The report you quote is about the reasons why some Africans are missed or not well served by the mainstream outreach and prevention measures. It is not saying that Africans have practices that are more risky / less hygienic / less 'good'

Straight white people are doing very well at contracting and spreading a wide range of STI's by having unprotected genital sex with multiple overlapping partners - more so than other demographics - so their practice of the primary mode of transmission is just as prevalent, or greater, than any other group. They just don't encounter HIV so often.

So it is not 'practices' in the sense of sexual acts that explains primarily why one group is 'afflicted' while another is 'saved'. The group that is afflicted by HIV then has to develop group-specific prevention measures.

The biggest definer of individual risk is about accidental (from the victim's perspective) membership of epidemiological networks - which I know that you understand; and your utter resistance to acknowledging that is one of the most telling points to emerge about your underlying beliefs.

Now we are back where we were just before your little school holiday, and I am certainly not going to go round the circle again.

Cue a load of masturbatory self aggrandising old twaddle and old statistics again, I suspect.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 09:50 AM

Royston, re.
"It is not saying that Africans have practices that are more risky "

Yes it is. It says exactly that. Over and over if you look in to the reports.

But it is just cultural differences.
No blame attached.

I have never made derogatory remarks about the behaviour of gay or African people.
You have about straight people though.
"grotesque sexual hygiene" in your first post bore no relation to anything Ake said, as you just claimed.

And you said it again next day! "This means that straight people are suffering from grotesque sexual hygiene and morals. "

So it is alright for you to say it about straights.
I never say it about anyone, but you say I do.

You tell lies about me Royston.
Why?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 11:05 AM

Royston: "Yes, Keith, and my first post "grotesque sexual hygiene..." was just turning Ake's sentiments around - sauce for the goose, slight irony?"

'Sauce for the goose'????...Thought provoking!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:33 PM

(I don't know why I bother!!)

GfS, you are LYING again!

I have never, at any time, said that I am opposed to a homosexual, male or female, going to a qualified psychotherapist or psychological counselor for any reason whatsoever, including wishing to alter their sexual orientation--if that's what they want to do and feel that it will help them.

That is the choice of any free citizen. And if you will note, freedom of choice has been my thesis all along. It is YOU who insists that same-sex oriented people must seek counseling for their "condition."

And I have no problem with folks who are oriented toward their own gender, nor am I offended by them. It is YOU who have expressed deeply personal negative feelings toward homosexuals and have indicated that you are offended by their "lifestyle"—to the extent that you would try to force them to seek counseling.

And no, you are not holding out any kind of olive branch. YOU are the one whom I find offensive because of your constant lying and generally misrepresenting what I have posted.

Frankly, GfS, judging from what YOU have posted—and which you now deny and try to blame on others, me in particular (the message in question came from YOUR computer, not mine)—I tend to suspect that you would rather climb the vertical face of El Capitan and swan-dive off the top rather than admit to yourself that you are gayer than a night in Rio during Carnival, but you haven't got the guts to face the possibility.

Which accounts for you obsessive homophobia.

Have a nice day!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 01:52 AM

Don T, how are you getting on with that list of things I have not proved you wrong about?
How many so far, in round figures?
I think it is a very round figure indeed. Right?

Nought?

So welcome to my world Don, but it is not a fantasy world after all, is it Don?

And of course, this is yet another thing you have been proved wrong about!
I will chalk it up.
Thanks for bringing it up Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 02:00 AM

Again they slink away from difficult questions.
I will restate them and insist this time they answer before raising more spurious issues.

Royston, why do you call me bigot and falsely accuse me of making derogatory remarks about gay and African people, even putting quotes on something I never said nor, anything like it?

Why do you yourself make bitter, hate filled remarks about straight sexual practice?

Did you know from the start that the apparent rise in heterosexual infection was actually caused by the influx of African peoples, so that your whole excursion on this thread was a huge lie, perpetrated to promote your twisted, anti straight agenda?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 04:57 AM

Keith,

That you keep repeating the same old dross at thin air, does not mean that anyone is trying to "slink away". This is exactly the behaviour I predicted from you, accurately.

I have no problem with my "grotesque sexual behaviour / morals" comment. I have explained it twice now - why do you keep shouting into thin air that I have not explained it?

Ake/GfS were asserting that gay men were suffering HIV because of those things. I explained, given the other STI figures, that on that basis, straight people must be suffering other STI's for exactly the same reasons. My position is that the argument is bogus when directed any person or group. So don't be so fatuous, you are not in school now, teacher. When people cast an inaccurate assertion at one group, the simples way to deal with it is to show how it could equally apply to another - and be inapplicable therefore to either.

Yes, Keith, I accuse you of being a bigot. I have explained why. I have provided as a direct copy/paste the principal comment that leads me to that view. You deny it. Fine, people will have to make their minds up. But don't say that anything has not been explained, it has been.

Why are you banging on about the damn quote marks. You asked for a correction to that, which I happily gave.

And now you show your true colours: "Anti straight agenda". Is Lox "anti-straight", or Don T or Don F or any of the others that argued against homophobia? Am I "anti-white" for arguing against racism? Am I anti-atheist (or a Catholic) for arguing here against religious intolerance? Am I anti-Christian for arguing against islamophobia? How far are you going to tie yourself in knots with that line of your bigoted attack.

No, my views are clear and consistent.

So are yours...now! This is good stuff, Keith. Keep it coming.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 05:55 AM

Was I pursuing some "anti-straight agenda" when I said:

"And just for the record - unlike you, I always state what I mean - I do believe that the cause of sexual tranmission of STI's and HIV in The West, where we have all the privileges of healthcare and education, is *often* the result of poor sexual hygiene and *possibly* poor morality - whether gay, straight, black or white."

Grow up, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 07:59 AM

The damn quote marks.
You explained "I added them to try to indicate I was paraphrasing the way I understood your position."
No one uses quotes like that.
Anyone would believe you were quoting me.
You have to fake bigotted quotes because I never make any.

The direct copy paste was me repeating official government health reports endorsed by all the African and AIDS organisation about high risk practice and behaviour.
How can it be bigotted to repeat that?
It is just a different culture. It is not perjorative. They may have a higher AIDS risk, but they have a lowere risk for diabetes, cancer and heart disease.

No other contributor has made rabid, anti straight gibes like yours.
You have not told us why you made them.

Did you know at the start that the apparent rise in hetero infection was caused by the influx of African peoples?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 09:58 AM

""Are you saying that because we have established a community of people from Subsaharan Africa, that the locals are going to take up their customs??

Experience suggests that the reverse will happen as they slowly integrate.""

Do you actually understand (really understand) the meaning of the word integrate?

Can you then oblige by telling us how the Subsaharan African grouping is going to integrate with the indigenous population, while still keeping all their relationships within their own group.

Some of the nonsense you spout, can be put down to honest misunderstanding, but the above smacks of plain stupidity.

You have taken a position, and in two sentences shot it to pieces, and you are claiming Royston and I are discredited.

Stunning!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 10:11 AM

They will have relationships outside from the start.
Infection will cross.
We have seen that the general population is not susceptable to an epidemic.
As they integrate their lifestyle will become more British and less African. That is how it goes.
You of all people should be carefull of shouting "stupidity" Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 12:33 PM

Don: "It is YOU who insists that same-sex oriented people must seek counseling for their "condition."

GfS: This is another bold faced lie, from you...besides, you already lost this debate.....I held out an olive branch to you..it wasn't to pick off the olives to put in your gin, to bolt down a couple or so shots...then jump back on the computer, and type out more of your nonsensical, tirades, based on your misquotes, to stir up animosities to promote your particular mental illnesses!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 12:40 PM

GfS, if you persist in throwing commas around like that, we're going to run out of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 12:52 PM

GfS, rave on!

Everything I said still stands.

I leave it for others to make up their own minds as to who's telling the truth. You're the one who's frothing at the mouth.

TTFN

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 02:13 PM

Keith: "No other contributor has made rabid, anti straight gibes like yours.
You have not told us why you made them."

Keith, you're lying again. I made one comment. Not plural "gibes". One comment, that you keep picking away at. Yes it is a "gibe". Is it anti-straight? Is it bollocks.

I have told you why I said it - twice. Most recently this morning.

You repeatedly saying otherwise won't change a lot. It's there in black and white. You knew the context of the comment when it was made two months ago, nearly, and you know it now.

The reason your faux-outrage is so pointless is that there is never any doubt about my views or opinions - they are there for everyone to see and they rarely change. So nobody is really listening to you, except to note that since I told you I was gay you think you've found a stick to beat me with.

Marvellous stuff, Keith. Speaks volumes about you. Keep it coming.

By the way, those reports you keep banging on about, the ones about African cultural practices, like polygamy. They are reports about Africa, aren't they? Not about the disease in UK populations of any colour? That is right, isn't it? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'd hate for there to be any confusion. I'd hate for anyone to get the wrong impression that they had anything to do with the UK-acquired infections, if in fact they talk of something totally different. I know that you like everything to be completely clear, Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 02:25 PM

Can someone confirm that my posts are visible please?

You see I worry that Keith can't see what people write and that this is why he sounds as though he's talking to the voices in his head.

Can anyone see me repeat my comments, like this one:

"And just for the record - unlike you, I always state what I mean - I do believe that the cause of sexual tranmission of STI's and HIV in The West, where we have all the privileges of healthcare and education, is *often* the result of poor sexual hygiene and *possibly* poor morality - whether gay, straight, black or white."

Or the ones where I give Keith the corrections that he asks for, or answer a question, only for him to keep going on about quote marks and saying that I haven't answered a particular question?

There is question I haven't answered, sorry - I did not know that the 500% increase was *mostly* in immigrant populations. But this emerged weeks ago and was accepted. I said at the time that I was uninterested - not being a racist - in the skin-colour of people suffering disease. I pointed out that black and white people (gay and straight) do have sex together, so any increase is a threat to everyone. Particularly a threat to the sraight white people who are having so much unprotected sex (other STI infection rates at 10%!!) in the mistaken belief that the odds of contracting HIV are staying as low as they have been.

It's all there in errm, black and white.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:01 PM

10th Jan.
only statistical conclusion is that heterosexual communities are paying the greatest price for their loose morals and grotesque sexual hygiene.

11th jan.
The point Lox is making about HPV and any other STI is that the incidence is sky rocketing amongst straight people.
This means that straight people are suffering from grotesque sexual hygiene and morals.

So straight infection is down to loose morals and grotesque hygiene, but gay infection is due to "networks."
No bias there then.

I have posted no reports about Africa. They were both about African communities in Britain.
thread.cfm?threadid=125426&page=34#2833696

I scanned Ake's posts for days previous. There was nothing to justify that outburst of bile.
I recall other slanders, like saying all straight men (I remember it was "all") like a bit of sex with their friends in prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 03:31 PM

No, you wilful idiot. It's mostly about networks.

You wont' get HIV "networking" with Mrs A.

But the kids you teach will be exposed to infection when/if they "network" in the local nightclubs on a regular basis. That is how they contract so many other STI's

Gay men face greater risk because they are members of a far tighter sexual network.

Africans (in Africa) have had an epidemic in the general population because of the networking symbiosis of labour and political migration with prostitution, coupled with poor access to education, healthcare, diagnosis and ART treatment which - most critically - breaks the mother to child tranmission vector that has shot HIV through generations of Africans.

The reasons for different groups suffering HIV in different ways are NOT PRIMARILY differentiated by behaviours.

And thank you for confirming that I have only made the one comment that excites you so much, rather than the "rabid anti-straight gibes" that you incorrectly described.

You and I both know the context to that, so does everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 04:09 PM

You will have to help me out here Royston.
Make it simple for me.
When you said "This means that straight people are suffering from grotesque sexual hygiene and morals." did you mean it or not?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 04:10 PM

Oh, and did you mean it when you said it again next day??

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 04:20 PM

The same comment, in the same dialogue. As in one gibe. Trouble counting, Keith?

In context - gay men and black people getting judged by GfS and Ake for behaviour - it was throwing their implication back at them. If that sentiment was justified for one group it must be justified for the other.

"And just for the record - unlike you, I always state what I mean - I do believe that the cause of sexual tranmission of STI's and HIV in The West, where we have all the privileges of healthcare and education, is *often* the result of poor sexual hygiene and *possibly* poor morality - whether gay, straight, black or white."

Never any doubt about my views, Keith. Just lots of questions about yours.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 04:31 PM

I have looked for refs. to morals and sexual hygiene from Ake and GFS prior to your post.
Can't find any.
Have I missed it or did something else goad you to twice make that gibe?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 05:22 PM

10/1 @ 11:50am Do you not even consider the life expectancy/ health figures pertaining to homosexual practice?

9/1 @ 02:01pm Sex outwith marriage will always be part of life.....its just nature at work......totally different from homosexual practice with all its associated problems, which have been well documented here

27/12 @ 09:14 Despite all the shit you post Don.....your only arugment amounts the belief that all sexual minorities should be treated equally.

A dozen times I have made the argument that this is not the case and provided facts to prove it. Rights are conditional on health psychiatric considerations and homosexuality at the moment contravenes both these considerations.

26/12 @ 03:08 I am addressing the health issues associated with homosexual practice, and the dangers of promoting homosexuality as a safe and healthy lifestyle.Marriage is to be redefined to accomodate homosexuality.
This promotion is in fact a tactic to turn what should be a health issue into a political issue.
As I have said many times sexual minorities are not all treated with "no prejudice" nor should they be if the welfare of these same minorities and society at large is to mean anything at all

22/12 @ 07:00 I'm amazed that you can joke about a disease which is showing a steady increase in the figures and continuing to decimate your community.....Are you really happy to allow these figures to climb, rather than address the reasons why they are so bad in comparison to heteros. Your remark about "virus ridden homosexual practice" may have been a joke, but it betrays a lamentable lack of understanding about the real extent of the problem and a lack of will in addressing it.

20/12 @ 07:47am I too think homosexuality is repugnant,against nature and based on psychological problems. ... the answer is to turn away and let the homosexuals get on with their lives,but unfortunatly this is getting harder and harder to achieve, as "gay culture " ouzes from every media orifice with all its nasty innuendo,like little boys behind the bike shed and god help anyone who tries to stop them."

Hmmmm. I wonder who could have written this?

This post has been extensively cut in a typical "hatchet job" by one of the most devious posters on the forum, but I stand by all my remarks even tho' they were made many years ago.

-----------------------------

And that is just a small sample I clipped before I lost the will to live reading this shit again.

All the little slanders, chisel-blows, overt slagging off and innuendo that gay men are peculiarly sick, have unhygienic practices or are immoral in ways that straight people are not. And then they extended their pontification to black people as well. All with the implicit and/or explicit agenda that minorities bring it on themselves.

So I got pissed off and slapped them in the face with one angry comment uttered twice in a dialogue.

And you support them.

Congratulations. Like I say, we are learning about you.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 05:34 PM

I was right then.
No refernce to morals or sexual hygiene.
Just concerns about health, which I would hope that you share.
Your nasty, bigoted remarks were unprovoked, and came from your own hangups.

So, we both accuse each other of being bigots, which of course we both deny.
The difference is that I have never made a single bigoted remark, and you had to resort to faking one.
You have made this extreme bigoted gibe twice, and posted others including that nasty one about straight people in prison.

The excuse for making them was pathetic, and you could not even substantiate that.
You will go on denying it, but your motivation is clear.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:15 PM

""We have seen that the general population is not susceptable to an epidemic.""

NO! WE HAVE NOT!

All that we have seen is that there are few contacts with carriers, as yet, but as your "integration" scenario takes place there will be many more, and as the numbers of contacts increase, so will the numbers of infections, because the indigenous grouping are not very good at avoiding sexually transmitted diseases, and HIV is a sexually transmitted disease.

This is what Royston has been trying to explain to you for weeks past.

I don't know how to put this more simply so that you might understand straightforward logic.

The fact that something has not happened so far is not proof that it will not happen in the future.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:41 PM

Keith: "No refernce to morals or sexual hygiene.
Just concerns about health, which I would hope that you share."

That you could read Ake's shit and reach that conclusion is extraordinary. I should just shut up and let you hang yourself. Amazing.

Straight people in prison. Nasty comment. What was that?

I said "The straightest of the straight is quite happy to get a bit from one of the lads when they're all in prison together, so sexuality is hardly a fixed reference."

How is that nasty? How is that inaccurate? You are aware, aren't you, of the well documented sexual behaviours in prisons, the HIV problems in prisons and the condom provisions and education programs that are deployed in prisons?

A lot of people have referenced heterosexual men who have sex with other heterosexual men in this thread - prisons being the most obvious example. Oh, but of course Keith, you only want to attack the gay guy that said it. Of course. We see.

Keep it coming Keith, keep it coming. I am happy to be called a zealot or even a bigot - by people like you. I have never claimed any political or other impartiality. You have claimed those things. You won't be able to in future. You have shown your hand and are continuing to do so nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:46 PM

Keith: "posted others including that nasty one about straight people in prison"

So, the prison comment was neither nasty nor a gibe.

What "others" are you referring to Keith. Do tell...or retract.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Royston
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:50 PM

Oh, is it that you see homosexuality as some sort of accusation that can be made to hurt someone - your reference to remarks on prison homosexual acts being "nasty". Yes, that would be entirely consistent with your prejudices, wouldn't it.

My word we are learning, aren't we.