BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:44 PM

Forget my Waltham, that is a much rarer watch my brother, Now if I can put together my 4992B Military 21 Jeweled ... Oh yes I will be happy. I am sorry I dragged you into this ... addicting ain't it LOL

I blame Q tee hee

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:42 PM

Been carrying one exactly like this for a month. No kidding it hasn't lost 15 sec in a month of running. Mahlon is amazing, tuned it all 6 positions

992b

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:32 PM

Nailed. I collect and pay tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:23 PM

Holy cow nail it !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 12:22 PM

Dan, no rush on the Illinois - as and when is fine. I just phoned my friend who owns the Waltham Military - he'll let me have the watch for £50.

Just as well I have a wedding gig this evening... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:31 AM

Hey Greg
there is a 24J Omega seamaster on ebay right now ... so far the bid it 11 bucks .. that is the wrist watch to have for sure. I don't collect or wear wrist watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:23 AM

Will
if he will sell it that is one to have for sure ... they are pretty hard to find as Q says ... very sought after. I saw a bucket of parts on a 4992b WWII .. going to snag it and see if I can assemble it myself. I don't have many tools need to start looking for them if I want to do some of this myself. I found a bag of parts for a 23J waltham vanguard 1892 hunter case. Tried to give it to my watchmaker friend and he said NO, I am going to make it work for you. Holy cow that is a one star watch didn't think it was all there. I need a couple of parts for it but I will find them. It is the hunt that is fun


I am going to try and fix this Illinois for you, Mahlon is swamped he got 30 watches in from a big auction house so it will be a bit ..

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:17 AM

Thanks Q. I haven't seen too many of the US military watches over here in the UK - British ones are far more common and not often in reasonable condition. My friends US watch is very clean - might make him an offer...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:13 AM

Will Fly- During WW2,both Waltham and Hamilton watches were purchased for the military, for use where accurate timing was required.
Ord = Ordinance Department; they purchased, tested and supplied many items used by the Army. All sorts of technical equipment may bear their inscription, and possibly a serial number.

I have a 17j Hamilton, inscribed "Bureau of Ships, U. S. Navy comparing watch, 12457-1943." The last is the supply catalogue number and date it was tested.

Another I have is a wristwatch, used by the Canadian Air Force. I haven't opened it, but some were Omegas.

Especially desirable are Hamilton 21j watches used in the military; one can easily sell for $1000. Wish I had one!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 11:01 AM

The Waltham Military watch is identical to this one - with different serial and case numbers of course: Waltham US Military watch. His dates to 1944.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 10:49 AM

I'm continually amazed that this thread is so active.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 10 Nov 12 - 10:39 AM

Nice sidewinder there, Dan - very unusual case, as you say.

Friend of mine has a very nice US Military Waltham pocket watch - 17 jewels - with an inscription on the back which reads: "ORD. DEPT., U.S.A., OB-35075". Are there any guides to the meaning of these markings?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 09 Nov 12 - 08:53 PM

This is an 1898 Waltham in a very unusual octogon case. 17 Jeweled just a beauty.   This one is for Gnu so he can know the time the football games come on LOL

gnu

I gave my watchmaker a bunch of old parts, today he gave me a Hamilton 940 mint 21J RR . He actually put the thing together from all the parts I gave him, took him a month and gave it to me as a gift ... How nice is that. He knows I love the 940's 936's and 992b's they are my favorite of all watches out there

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 05:35 PM

23 Waltham vanguard

dial is flawless, scratch in glass crystal that I will replace
vanguard

case back

ding in the case back, that is not brassed through in the photo just shows up dark ... gold is still there

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:33 PM

sorry one of the links is bad above
this one works

Hamilton 925

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:25 PM

it needs serviced which I will do shortly

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Oct 12 - 03:25 PM

Hamilton 925 in full hunter case size 18 ... mint you rarely see them
in a full original mint gold filled hunter case

front

inside

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Oct 12 - 12:21 PM

Fascinating film of the Illinois Watch Co. history here...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 04:51 PM

Your point is well taken Q, I only saw the one and it was a marked movement including the one I was bidding on

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Oct 12 - 03:30 PM

934s show up at collectors meets, I have seen several in past years.
A current price guide estimates $125 - $500 for these depending on condition; a marked movement $350 - $1200.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 09:32 PM

the movement grade with 934 marked yes, but compared to the number of 936's or 940's you will rarely see a 934 on ebay or pretty much any other place. A Hamilton 924 yes that is not rare but the 934 ? I seen only 1 collector who had one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 07:47 PM

Only 934s with the grade number marked on the movement are rare.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 04:06 PM

I think they made like 1200 Hamilton 934's and that is it, forget the others try and nail that one. I bid on just a movement one time and lost at 425 US dollars ... right now I have to take it easy on the buying so sometime I will run across one.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 03:46 PM

A 934 Is a very rare RR grade early Hamilton, that one is bucks if you can get it under 300 US dollars you are stealing it my brother

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 02:52 PM

Nice find Dan - hope you get a case to match.

I picked up a couple of 18s Elgins from the 1910-1918 era in silveroid cases at an online auction last week - expecting them tomorrow - which will bring my total up to 3. I'm going to pick out the best one and put the other two on eBay. There's also a Hamilton 18s from 1894 on eBay UK - one of the earliest made - very tempting! It's Grade 934 with 17 jewels and apparently RR grade...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Oct 12 - 12:33 PM

One of my finds, an 1873 American Watch company ie Waltham keywind Broadway
it works and is near mint, dial just needs wiped off ... I am going to give it to my Amish watchmaker as he goes nuts for these old Waltham movements

broadway

movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 02:31 PM

Thanks Will
I love it, watching the movement run on this beautiful watch. Of course he would not let me pay him no matter how much I argued ... never argue with the Amish they always win :-)

I asked him what he normally charges he said 50 bucks ... To buy a salesman sample case on ebay is way over 100 because they are so scarce. fun fun watch. I will be carrying it all the time now

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 02:02 PM

That's brilliant, Dan - I am SO impressed!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:20 PM

you can see what he cut out, but what amazes me is that glass back is a perfect fit I mean it is set right even with the case back like it was factory produced ... amazing

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:06 PM

Q
check out the glass back case Mahlon made for me, you can see what he cut out and what he did in this photo .. it is amazing

glass back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 11:59 AM

olddude, you can't afford my prices.

Real answer; I don't have any excess parts, I never accumulated any. I will have (soon) a case with crown for a 992B; it is very good gold fill, but has a name inscribed on the back. I bid in two model 17s that are clean for use with 992B movements.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:34 PM

Hey Q
do you have any Crown's for size 16 or 18 that you can sell me? Outta them also

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:29 PM

Well I was out of watch hands and I hate to keep taking them from my watchmaker friend who never charges me ... I nail this collection for 40 bucks ... what a steal .. they run 10 bucks a piece and there are hands for every American pocket watch .. since I have a bunch of high end movements coming I sure can use them and they will clean up just fine

hands

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 01:59 PM

Dan - your advice, as ever, is invaluable and appreciated more than you could ever know. I'll watch the old Hamilton 940 and see how it goes...

Thanks again, dear friend.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 12:31 PM

No on the BW raymond. Here is a little known fact, the BW Raymond was a Railroad grade at 19J or above. However, You could order an Elgin 15-17 Jeweled and pay 3 dollars more for the BW Raymond inscription added to the movement.   This version is a gents watch not RR grade. The one I gave you is RR grade

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 12:13 PM

Will forget the 947 it is not a 947, it is a 974 which is the most common of all Hamiltons

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM

I don't collect Illinois you do bro. However, I have tons of Illinois original parts. I maybe able to make the all original Illinois for you from one of the movements. If so I will give it to you so hold off on the Illinois. the 947 will go for huge bucks I think .. that is a pretty scarce Hamilton. What disturbs me is they replated the cases (not what collectors want to see) but if you could nail it ... that is a rare one. Hopefully however no one will notice the unmarked Hamilton is an old 940 and you maybe able to steal it cheap

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 11:50 AM

No on the 936, it is not all original Will

Yes on the 940 it is a Motor Barrel one so it is pretty good
the best buy is the unmarked, that is also a 940 but an earlier model like one I have ... if you get it 80 - 100 grab it but no higher. I can fix you up with a 940 that is all original and early

No on the Illinois, Let me look at the movements when I get them, I maybe be able to fix you up there also my brother

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:53 AM

Dan - here are some pics from the auction catalogue:

Hamilton 947 special

Hamilton 936

Hamilton 940

Hamilton (model 1?)

Illinois "A. Lincoln"

Elgin "B.W. Raymond" - NOT "Father Time" as in my previous post!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:43 AM

Woah - what a collection, Dan! You're going to have a great time getting them all back into their proper shape. I often see movements and sometimes cases on eBay, but I'm always wary of going for them because of the cost of bringing them up to scratch.

And the Nixon watch sounds like a hoot!

There's an auction house auction coming up here in the next few days and someone has obviously wanted to get rid of some watches from his collection - some Hamiltons: a 974 special, a 936, a 940, an unspecified model from 1883 (probably a Model 1). And there's also an Illinois "A. Lincoln" model and an Elgin "Father Time"... All seemingly in apple pie order.

The auctions estimates are all around £80-£120/£150 - if you were going for one, which would it be? The Illinois A. Lincoln looks interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:20 AM

Not a pocket watch but I found my missus one of the I am not a crook richard nixon watches where the eyes shift back and forth .. Original from 1973. She is thrilled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:05 AM

I have the parts to get them all living again ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 10:03 AM

Hey Will
check out this ebay find, great movements
movement
18S 23J Waltham Vanguard apart, 16S Hamilton apart, Waltham KW/KS complete, 16S Rockford, Illinois 18S missing balance wheel, 16S Illinois complete, 18S Waltham PS Bartlett complete, 18S Hamilton 940 complete with dial but missing hands, 18S Elgin Convertable missing balance wheel & bridge and hands, Nice Illinois 12S marked the autocraft, 18S Hamilton 924, Southbend 12S 411

I will put together some all original watches since I have cases

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 12 - 04:57 AM

Ah - thanks Dan - I'll give them a miss!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 07:18 PM

Will
No on the Burlingtons, they were low end watches even the 21J I don't believe the US railroads accepted them

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 14 Oct 12 - 08:16 AM

Thanks for the crystal/glue tip, Dan. So far, the crystal seems pretty stable, but I'll know what to do if it works looser.

By the way, am I right in supposing that Burlington movements in the 1920s were, in fact, made by Illinois? There are one or two around on eBay and the prices look good. If so, might be worth going for.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 04:08 PM

dang I am jealous you got a 978, they are hard to find ...
good job Will

by the way, my watchmaker gets ticked at me when I use crazy glue on the crystals however, most amish don't have nail polish remover LOL
it works fine and is easy to get off ... I like it cause it drys clear and holds

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 03:56 PM

Will the Bunns were not cased at the factory, the movement was sold to a jeweler and the customer purchased whatever case he wanted. You will see them in many different style of cases. You cases are absolutely authentic to the watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 03:54 PM

1943 Hamilton 992b original enamel dial
43

will
a small drop of crazy glue on the side of the crytal won't hurt a thing. I have done it a dozen times. It can be removed easy .. just don't get it on the threads

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 11:34 AM

The case is a Dueber and, although the movement is a 16s - exactly the same as my other Bunn Special - this case is slightly smaller than the other one.

The crystal is a little loose in the bezel, but seems reasonably stable. Any tips for making it a little snugger?