BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 09:38 AM

Thanks Will
The ones from the depression era are quite scarce. They didn't sell a lot of them for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Jun 13 - 03:52 AM

That's a lovely Hamilton, Dan - just my sort of shape and style for a wristwatch. Looks great!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 11:23 PM

Hey mud elf can we change the thread to "Old Timepieces"

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 11:22 PM

screams art deco doesn't it ...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 11:21 PM

my latest while I am waiting for my pocket watches to get done. This is a Hamilton model called Turner it is 1935 pretty hard to find not rare but dang hard to find in this condition. It is 17 Jeweled perfect timekeeper

Hamilton

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 10:11 AM

Well I know he has all the parts you need cause I gave him a ton of parts for Elgins. He will make it sing for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Jun 13 - 04:54 AM

I acquired a second Elgin 571 "B.W. Raymond" a few months ago. It had the wrong winding stem and crown and was a bit tricky on time. I've managed to get a winding stem made for it and it winds and runs OK, but the crown is still the wrong shape.

Its main problem is that it runs perfectly - face down - but stops when turned over! My friend Derek believes it's a pallet problem but you just can't get parts or Elgin expertise over here, and he's reluctant to touch it.

So - it's going off to Mahlon with a covering letter - which I should have done in the first place!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 06:50 PM

Great Will that is awesome ... Wow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jun 13 - 03:16 PM

Comparative prices, some Waltham pocket watches, 1901
Canadian catalogue, but prices were close in U.S. catalogues.

18 size, nickel case
P.S. Bartlett, nickel case 17j   $9.25
Appleton Tracy nickel case 17j adj   $18.00
"Railroader" 17j Silver case $19.65
Same, gold-fill case   $23.90
Crescent St. 21j         $23.75
Appleton Tracy New Model $19.75
Same, gold-filled case   $23.90
Same, GF case. "C.P.R." movement 21j $28.25
"C.P.R." nickel case $22.50
Vanguard nickel movement and case 21j $27.75
Vanguard, same, silver case $29.50
Vanguard, same, gold-filled case $34.00

In 1901, the 16 size was new; only 17j movements offered. The new 12 size also had only up to 17 j movements.

T, Eaton Co. Catalogue, Toronto, Canada. 1901

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 02:29 PM

My grandson got the Westclox "railroad" pocket watch. My daughter gave it to him to wear in his guide job at the Fort Steele heritage site. He complained that after a day, it stopped. My daughter looked at it, and wound it. Seems he didn't know that there were mechanical watches that didn't use a battery. I guess many kids nowadays have never seen or used a mechanical watch.

On impulse, I bought a new Seiko watch for $41 on ebay. It is automatic, day-date, circular, stainless steel with stainless steel band and see through back. Sold with tag but no box or booklet.

On inspection, it is the 7S 26 caliber, marked with the 5 logo and Seiko on the face, marked automatic, 21 jewel. The numerals are steel-color, very readable. Sweep second hand. Small when compared with Seikos with functions.
I wore it for about 2 hours last night, took it off, and this morning it was still running, with the accurate time. The movement must be well-balanced.
The day markers are in French, so today came up "MAR."
I found setting directions on the net.

This bargain Seiko would make a good present for your kids.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 11:20 AM

Hey Dan, do you recall the Elgin wristwatch that you gave me many months ago?

I took it to my friend Derek to have it cleaned and serviced recently. He cleaned it, swapped the stainless steel strap for an American gold-plated strap ("Speidel, USA" on each link), cleaned the dial and hands, and put in a new crystal as the old one was pretty scratched. It looks a treat.

The fascinating thing is that, althought the dial is signed "Elgin", the movement inside is a Savoie P72 - sometimes known as a Lorsa P62 movement. Savoie - sometimes known as Savoy - was based in the Haute Savoie region of France, right on the French/Swiss border. But they were originally a New York-based firm who shipped in Swiss movements for use in American watches - a bit like Wittnauer and Gruen. I asked Derek whether the case and dial could have been fitted with a new movement - and he said no, they were originally together when cased.

So, even before Elgin was sold in the late 1960s, they were using non-American parts and movements for their later watches. Apparently, the P62 is a fine movement.

Great little piece of American/Swiss watch history - and the watch looks great!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 08:08 PM

olddude, my watchmaker set up my 1022 Omega, and it is working fine now.

Nigel, found a couple of keywind watches in hallmarked English cases. One was dated 1880s, the other had a Waltham movement of much later date. I know nothing about them, but the latter seems to me to be a case with a later movement installed.

Not enough information to guess at ebay prices.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:27 AM

Thanks OldDude & Will:
1. Don't recall any identifier on the dial
2. Inner case appears to be sealed with two small screws which I haven't managed to move yet.
3, Inside keyhole (in face or case, I can't remember, I'll check tonight)
All the rest needs confirming with the original!

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:14 AM

Nigel - the hallmarks and the "AV" probably give a clue to the maker, and I suspect that your "AV" may be "AY", who was Alfred Yardley,a case maker based in Coventry, in 1885. Check the "V" and it may well actually be a "Y" - and 1885 sounds like your hallmark description. Yardley had his cases assayed in London, and was a registered silversmith in 1885.

Questions:

1. Is there a maker's signature on the watch dial?

2. Have you had the back completely open - the outer case usually/often conceals an inner, hinged dust cover which you may have to prise open with a case knife. There may be a maker and/or serial number engraved on the actual movement.

3. Does the watch wind from the crown, or is there a keyhole in the inner dust cover?

4. Does the crown pull out to set the hand, or is there a square profile to the centre staff (where the hands fit)? A square centre staff may indicate that the hands are set with a key if the crown doesn't pull out. Do you have a key?

5. If there are two holes in the inner case, one is for winding and one is for hands setting.

6. What is the case quality like - dinged, worn, clean, sound, scratched?

7. Is the dial free of hairlines, cracks and chips?

8.Does the watch - in spite of missing hands - actually work when wound? If no, sell as "spares or repair".

If you sell on eBay, these are the points that buyers will look for! Take lots of photos - large scale - of dial, back outer, back inner, movement, etc. Even if the movement is crap and the hands are missing, you can sell for the silver content.

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 10:03 AM

It's British, it is sterling silver, could not tell you more unless I saw the movement. Will could probably date it for you by the Hallmarks. My guess 1880's

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 11 Jun 13 - 09:22 AM

Okay, let's pick the mind of the Mudcat collective.

I've got an old silver watch which I'm considering putting on E-Bay, but want to describe it accurately.

It appears to be an 'open-face' watch (no metal covering over the glass? covering of the face).
The stub for the fob/chain is at the 12 o'clock position.
The glass front is hinged, the second hand is missing, the hour hand has snapped off.
The rear of the case is hinged, and bears within the case a hallmark which appears to show: a lion (sterling silver?) a leopard's head (not crowned) London? a letter 'K' in a shield with shaped top (1885?)
And a (pattern?) number 16018    - no idea
And a maker's mark (in a horizontal oval) "A.V" - also no idea

I'm in work at the moment, so don't have it with me to answer any questions, but - Any clues?

Cheers

Nigel

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 Jun 13 - 01:17 PM

Thanks, Olddude.

I would like one of those with the wind indicator, but out of my budget.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 06:11 PM

I'm still keeping an eye out for a Waltham with a wind indicator - but they go for megabucks!

And I also have to save for a guitar I've commissioned...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 04:15 PM

Q my seamaster double date died, it stopped changing the date. Mahlon said common problem and then said good thing I have lots of Omega parts that you gave me ... I guess that is an issue with the seamasters

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 03:55 PM

I want a Waltham or Elgin with the wind indicator ... I went up to 800 bucks on one and lost ... Ahhhh if only money wouldn't get in the way of stuff right

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 03:01 PM

From the early 80's Q

http://www.ubbcentral.com/store/item/the-conductor-westclox-pocket-watch-new-old-stock-boxed-needs-cleaning-1980s_190731294045.html

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 02:57 PM

Just got the Westclox Train Conductor pocket watch and chain, in original box. Attractive gold color, locomotive on back.
A nice addition to a grandson's period suit that he wears at the Fort Steele heritage site (B. C.).

I would like to know when this model 40077 was last made.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 01:17 PM

Good question Will ... I been waiting for a rare Hamilton pocket watch to come back from Mahlon's ... The gears had some spots so after grinding the spots off he had to redo the intrique damaskeen work .. amazing. Saw what he was doing yesterday

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jun 13 - 03:58 AM

Nice Wittnauer, Dan - not my style I have to say, but Wittnauers in general are damned good watches. Like Gruen, they were established in the US with parts specially made for them in Switzerland and then cased in America (mainly).

Wittnauer were a branch of Longines, made in the same factory, but in a separate section - with Wittnauer-only parts, if what I read is correct.

I particularly like the period from 1930s to 1950s for these watches.

HEY - how come this Old Pocket Watch thread is being drawn to the Dark Side... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 07:44 PM

My daughter took it (the $0.01) to the watchmaker, along with a good watch needing service. We couldn't find any seam on the back. We will report what he said.

There are fake Seiko model 5 watches out there. They have metal or silvered day and date wheels- Seiko has used plastic since 1990. Also any with the calibre marked 7526 (a mistake from 75s6). This from EBay-
"Counterfeit Seiko 5 Automatics, the Easy Tell"

Seiko does not participate in EBay's VRO program so it is up to the buyer to check for Seiko fakes.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 04:14 PM

no you can open it, usually they are snap on not screw, I bought one for my grandson and replaced the battery just fine. Uses a common battery at any store

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 03:57 PM

That $0.01 hunter case pocket watch- Can it be opened for a new battery, or do you throw it away when it quits?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 03:20 PM

By the way Mahlon says the old Seiko 5 models will go toe to toe with an Omega

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 02:18 PM

I picked up this wittnaur 17 jeweled model 2000 circa 1970 for 60 bucks. Great running watch all original needs nothing but to polish the crystal

17 jeweled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jun 13 - 02:13 PM

Heck ya can't buy a hand for .01 Q so its a good deal for sure.
The old Seiko 5's are my favorite. I think I bought 4 or 5 of them for Mahlon on ebay cheap

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Jun 13 - 03:48 PM

Most be a model change, or discontinued series, but Seiko automatic new 21jewel wristwatches are going cheap on Ebay. I just bid one in for $41.
Some with chronometer works for under $100.

They are sold with tag but no box or instruction booklet.

Just received that $0.01 hunter case pocket watch with chain from Hongkong, with battery and running. 24 hour dial.
It is very attractive. Postage $10 (maybe half of that was the watch cost?). Tempted to get a couple more.
Anyone know the battery number? I don't want to open it before I send it off for use with costume at a heritage site. No information sent with the watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 29 May 13 - 11:44 AM

Seiko automatics are wonderful watches. Mahlon says he snaps them up whenever he finds one. they use them as pocket watches, tough, keep time and are very accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 May 13 - 07:58 PM

Hi, Q -

I think you're talking about the "Seiko 5" 7S26A movement automatic wrist watches (21 jewel) Have had one for about three years & it keeps decent time.

They are, however, quite thick- 10 to 11 mm or so & thus a bit clunky.

But for 60-75 dollars, I think they're a pretty goood deal.

Your mileage may vary.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 May 13 - 07:43 PM

I didn't know that Seiko makes automatic watches. Several dealers offer a 21j automatic for under $75.
Anyone have any experience with them?

They issued a limited edition of 50jewel automatics, but these were priced at several thousand dollars.

They make (or made) pocket watches, but they all seem to be quartz.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 25 May 13 - 07:12 PM

LOL SRS just don't ask us what time it is, we would have to check all five that we carry and then take a guess which one is right
:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 13 - 01:02 PM

My daughter is a chip off the old..., as they say. She reclaims wood furniture from the smalltown dump near where she lives. Best picks were a mahogany extension table, several 19th C. chairs, and a good mahogany wardrobe.

No watches in the dump so far, but she has a nice Rado from a garage sale.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 May 13 - 12:47 PM

Oh, no fear- I tend to reclutter as fast as I declutter. With a higher class of clutter. I'm thinking about adding a really big piece of high-quality clutter right now. (Not a watch, but a quarter-sawn oak art deco bar.)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 May 13 - 12:39 PM

SRS, as a long time clutterer, I am wary of declutterers, unless they aim declutter-discards my way, but you are welcome so long as you refrain from proselytizing in the watch thread.

(My clutter words have red lines below them, meaning my version 7 doesn't recognize them.)

Now I must sign off, Ebay offers are calling.....

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 May 13 - 10:56 AM

Since Olddude and Q dropped into the eBay thread to compare notes, I thought I'd stop by the Pocket Watch thread to see if you were still really talking about watches. (I hasten to add that I didn't doubt it - if some of us can spend years discussing the wide-reaching topic of "decluttering" and do everything from garage sale hints to talking a member through cancer, who knows what potential lurks in a pocket watch thread?)

It's a little "Antiques Roadshow" here at Mudcat, perpetually stuck in the timepiece episode. :)

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 May 13 - 05:34 PM

Here's some info on vintage Roamer watches...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 24 May 13 - 04:34 PM

In the 50's there were lots and lots of small watch companies that made very high quality watches but folded only because they could not compete with the big guys.   On the NAWCC they talked about many of them and what a deal a person can get with some of these undervalued small shop companies. I am not sure your company size it may have been larger or smaller but from what I can see that is a fine watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 24 May 13 - 06:08 AM

It's keeping great time, Dan - I'm pleasantly surprised by the overall quality. My friend Derek (who collects them) thinks they're very under-rated - particularly the pre-quartz era calibres. And, because he collects them, he has a shed-load of spares and can do most anything with the brand.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 May 13 - 07:15 PM

Will
that roamer has a nice movement .. heck ya I bet it keeps good time. nice watch

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 May 13 - 03:23 PM

I have a daughter who always needs vintage props for little theatre, and a grandson who is working this summer at a heritage site (Ft. Steele, B.C.).
I may get another cheapie or two- if they get lost, no big deal.

Surprised to find Westclox listed in the Engle et al. price guide. Some interesting models. I can understand now why some collect the "dollar" watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 23 May 13 - 02:11 PM

Price on Ebay- 0.01. Postage 9.99. Hunter-cased with chain. From China.

Got one about a year ago - just out of curiosity! As light as a feather and as cheap as chips (as we say over here). Keeps great time and, when it stops working - as it surely will - I'll hang it on the wall as an ornament.

I'm sure they press the parts out as almost one piece... But - as you say - the modern equivalent of the dollar watch, just flimsier.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 May 13 - 12:48 PM

Just dug out an old Westclox pocket watch. It is marked Made in Canada.
Gone are the days when Canada had a lot of manufacturing plants. Now everything is oriental in flavor.

I have a Leica M-4 camera and 90mm telephoto lens, both made in Canada, when Leitz had a plant here. I bought them new when they were made.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 May 13 - 12:30 PM

Well, folks, this may be it! A reincarnation of the old trustworthy Ingersoll and Westclox dollar pocket watches.

Price on Ebay- 0.01. Postage 9.99. Hunter-cased with chain. From China.

OK, I'm a sucker for these things. I'll describe it when I get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 May 13 - 12:30 PM

I see the Roamer is 17j. New name to me. An attractive face.

There is a Wikipedia article on them, which I just found. Looks like the company is still around. The article states older Roamers are collected. The illustration looks like your watch.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 22 May 13 - 12:19 PM

I spotted three watches at a timed online auction some weeks ago, so put in a minimum bid. There was no info about the watches other than that one of them had "Roamer" on the dial. Derek, my watch repairing friend in Hamble, collects Roamers and I thought he might be able to do something with it. The auction lot arrived through the post - two of the watches were cheap quartz crap (destined for the rubbish drawer) - but the Roamer didn't look too bad, so I had it over to Derek's for a sort-out. Collected it this morning with a new mainspring, new crystal, new button, cleaned, serviced and with some gentle polishing to the dial - all for £35... Turned out it was a MST 402 from around 1950 - and a good quality movement.

I was going to put it on eBay - but I've ended up wearing it - and it's a keeper!

Roamer 402 face

Roamer 402 movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 May 13 - 01:16 PM

In mailings to Canada, never use the "gift" statement unless the value is $25 or less.

The word "gift" is a red sign to Customs post inspectors. The package gets held and it takes a lot of talk and payment of their assessment, which usually is Canadian retail for a new, similar item, to get it.

Often a properly declared package will go into the out bin without examination if they are busy.

Sometimes one is lucky with that gift statement, but much safer to declare approx. value.