BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 01:59 PM

It is still one hell of a nice watch and hard to find them in running condition in their original hunter case. You did good very good

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 01:58 PM

no will, it is not railroad grade even then. Lever set were the new "fashion" after they came out so even on low grade watches you will see them. RR grade that early would have to be at least 15 Jeweled or 17 Jeweled and "adjusted" They had pretty specific grades ...

Grades are a classification, all companies had their own and it really only applies their own movement. Each company had their own way and you have to look up to determine if it was , low grade for general consumption as this one is, or mid grade hence more expensive or high grade IE meant for RR certification. More important then the number of jewels is the movement and the number of adjustments that were made to keep the time. Temp for one, positions etc ... on Elgin class 6 is general population lower cost ... Now on other makers like Howard class 6 is adjusted and highly tuned.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 01:44 PM

Thanks Dan - can you explain to a simpleton what the categories "Grade", "Class" and "Model" might cover?

One thing I also meant to ask you: Does the fact that the movement was lever set - even though cased in a fancy hunter case - mean that it would have been intended for the RR market?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 12:26 PM

Will this is your watch grade ... nice find

Grade:        96
Class:        6
Model:        2-4
Named for:        None
Description:        Grade 96, 18 size, 7 jewels, made about 1891.
Hunter case movement. Lever set. Full plate.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 05:02 AM

Well, the Elgin's been running for 24 hours solid - just checked the time: perfect.

I would say that's a result.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:22 AM

Damn - links not working - here goes again:

Elgin 1890 movement

Elgin 1890 face

Elgin 1890 case front

Elgin 1890 case back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:16 AM

Forgot pics to my last post:

Elgin 1890 face

Elgin 1890 movement.jpg

Elgin 1890 case front.jpg
Elgin 1890 case back.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:12 AM

Just picked up an 1890 Elgin gilt-cased hunter from an online auction house for a few pounds. The estimate was very cheap and it wasn't selling. I hadn't viewed it, so I guessed it was not working and I bid at the last minute before it was passed over for the next lot. I initially bought it to sell on for spares or repair on eBay. Anyway, it arrived this morning and - blow me, it winds and ticks OK!

One thing fooled me though. It was described as a keyless watch, so I pulled on the crown to set the hands - it didn't budge... So I thought to meself it's broken and that's why it was cheap. Then I looked a little closer at the bezel, saw a small pry point and hooked my nail under it. Off came the glass and its rim and - lo and behold: there was a lever! I'd never seen that arrangement before. Anway, the hands have been set and it's sitting beside the Bunn Special now, which is acting as a time check on the newcomer.

The inside of the case has the word America and a small engraving of the US flag, and there's some fine engraving all over it - cartouche on the front and a floral motif on the back. Not bad for £5 plus £10 packing and postage...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 05:10 PM

here is my Hamilton 992, 21 Jeweled RR watch size 16
beautiful and all original

hamilton 992 RR 21 Jeweled

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: gnu
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 03:04 PM

Odd... I haven't followed this thread but I, too, was just watching a snippet of a TV show (setting up my VCR for Swamp People) and a guy had a supposed Patek in front of a bunch of antique peeps and they were haggling with him over his price. I clicked on this thread only because of the number of posts. Rather odd.

Youse guys got some cool watches!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 02:38 PM

completely agree Will, my favorite was a recent episode of "pawn Stars" The owner bought a keywind AWC Wm Ellery. Well he went nuts for it because it was inscribed to a civil war vet to the other civil war vet in 1880. Paid 1300 for it ...

Well all my watch friends and myself agree. The watch was re-cased, it was not of the 1880's as stated. The engraving was way too new to be authentic ... bottom line, nice case but it is a 300 dollar watch tops on a real good day .. mostly 150 -200 normal

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 02:29 PM

Wow Dan - that's a beaut!

I've just been watching an old edition of 'The Antiques Road Show' on Brit TV. There was a Patek Phillippe pocket watch there - enamelled, crusted with pearls - supposed to be the "best" watch make in the world. Well, it may have such a snob value in the marketplace, but these RR watches have a fantastic charm - give me one of them any day!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 01:55 PM

cost ya nothing Will, just needed time via meantime screws ... get it right back to you.

Hey this is one I been carrying a lot lately
Waltham Vanguard 23 Jeweled. My watchmaker precision timed it across all 6 positions. It keep atomic time LOL Amazing

23 Waltham vanguard

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 01:38 PM

Thanks Dan - that's really good to know. I'll get the Elgin 571 back over to you in the next week or so. You can see the case work and new bow for yourself, and your Amish buddy can give it a service and adjustment I'm happy with whatever it costs and will obviously pay all postage.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 09:42 AM

You did just fine on that Bunn, Will ... next watch you have you eye on something let me know ok. Some high end RR watches have bad balance staff's. and you can get them half price ... I have balance staff's for darn near every RR watch ever made and it is an easy fix. Fact is, watches need serviced anyway and fixing a balance staff is no issue at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 09:22 AM

Will you did good on the price of the Bunn, they are always expensive and that is about the price you see here in the states also ... no worries you did fine bro.

anything you need serviced. My watch guy won't charge me, I do so much for him that he just does it for me ... sometimes on big jobs I have to fight with him to take my check

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Jul 12 - 03:48 AM

I don't know what you thought of the price I paid for the Bunn Special - $325 US - whether too low or too high. One of the problems about collecting these things over here in the UK is that they rarely come up for auction, either on eBay or in online auction houses.

You can pick up a standard Waltham in a nice Dennison case any old time for a reasonable price, partly because they made so many and partly because they exported so many to this country originally. There are far fewer Elgin watches on the market, very very few Hamiltons - and a Bunn Special is a rarity. I just had to grab this one when I spotted it. I used a sniping service (on your advice some time ago) and got in my bid just under the wire - and just under my maximum!

There's much more available to go for in the US, but then we have to pay customs & import duties on the item when it gets to the UK, plus whatever shipping charges the seller wants to charge.

Thanks for the heads-up on the Bunn balance staff. I'll be wearing kid gloves when I handle this watch!

Glad you approved of the Elgin case work, Dan. I might, at some stage, send the watch over to you for your Amish friend to service. It's been sent hither and thither for this work and I think it needs an adjustment. I think I'd rather send it to him via you and pay his costs and all postage. It's not that it mat or may not be cheaper - it's just that there are so few good horologists over here these days, especially ones who know about RR grade watches. Would that be OK with you?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 06:55 PM

beautiful Will, he did a wonderful job ... wow .. love it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 06:26 PM

Dan, your collection sounds fabulous. The pride of mine, at the moment is the lovely Elgin 571 B.W. Raymond, the Elgin Father Time and the Hamilton 992B - all from your hands! The Bunn Special will be a nice addition to those three.

Incidentally, the case for the B.W. Raymond - which you so generously gave me - was wearing, and the bow was a wire replacement for the original. So, I took the plunge and found a watchcase maker who could fashion me a bow in the style of the case - brass with gilding - and he also re-nickeled and gilded the outer case. I pondered long and hard before getting this done, as originality is always to be preferred. In the end, I thought what the heck - I'll go for it... Hope you don't mind!

Elgin with new bow

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 04:51 PM

I got a collect of movements, I paid like 5-8 bucks a movement - dirt cheap- but the Elgin movements go from 1879-1892 each year wonderful stuff. Also one 1889 seth thomas and three 1860's AWC movement (before Waltham) best 130 bucks I ever spent

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 04:41 PM

The one I want Will is the size 18's from the early 1900's. Your version is wonderful. Now very careful not to drop it. The size 16 Bunn Special uses a balance staff #1506 ... very rare never find them and when you do they cost a fortune. However you have me and I have 52 of them so if something happens I got ya covered.

My Rolls Royce is still the Hamilton Ball 23 Jewel .. that one will set back my wallet for sure.   My second is the Hamilton 946 which I did nail ... they made all of 305 of those guys ... that's it ... I got one being restored. Now I could sell the 941, 946 and probably get my Ball but ... not near as much fun as finding one to restore

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 04:28 PM

Its a beauty, absolute beauty.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Jul 12 - 03:10 PM

I got my Bunn Special!

1923 Illinois Bunn Special

I shall have to put two or three other watches up for sale on eBay to pay for this - but it's worth it to buy one of the Rolls-Royces of the pocket watch...

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 05:24 PM

my brother, I put it on ebay with a buy it now and someone jumped on it.   but I have the Illinois if you still want it ...

sorry bro. Now I do have one other 936 but I have to think if I want to sell it.   What I am trying to do is get one of each 936 models. They made them with no markings, then with adjusted 5 position marking, then one with 936 adj 5 positions on the last run ...
I have two of them so far

Dan

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Jul 12 - 04:23 AM

Got any pics of the 936, Dan?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 03:28 PM

I have a beautiful Hamilton RR 936 if anyone wants it for 225. This one is awesome and keeps dead nuts time. I just had it serviced. I have one in my collection, this one is a spare. Train engraved on the back case ... all original

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 03:01 PM

well right now In Hamilton's I have
910, 912, 924, 925,926,927, 930,933,935,936,937,940, 941,972,974,975,976,978,992, 992b

cool huh

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 07:47 AM

Well done, Kendall. Those RR grade watches really suit a nice chunky chain. Is there a little separate chain length near the T-bar for a fob such as a medallion or a coin?

I'd love a solid gold chain - but look at the price of gold! I've got two solid silver chains, which were within my price bracket, and they look great with nickel or silver-cased watches.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jul 12 - 07:16 AM

Will, I picked up one of those chains at a car boot sale in England, and didn't even know what I had. Thanks. It goes well with my Elgin 16.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Jul 12 - 11:33 AM

Wow !! came home from work and my misses made some really nice necklaces and other jewelery ..
Out of my spare antique pocket watch cases !!!! LOL

have to admit they look great ... but Dang !!

it is legal to shoot your spouse :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 03:49 PM

So pewter is not the actual material since it is almost all tin with a little lead. I was going to use he term "base metal".

The common case material is "Silveroid" appears to have become the standard name for this metal that consisted of 45% nickel, 54% copper and 1% manganese. This metal was fairly hard wearing and could withstand the rigors of everyday use..."

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 03:21 PM

Description of silveroid metal used in these watch cases.

http://www.antique-pocket-watch.com/pocket-watch-case.html

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 02:42 PM

Thanks, Dan!

Seems what I have is an American Waltham Watch Company item from 1890.

Sidewinder type, Arabic numerals, swing-out movement, open face case, serial # 4710XXX.

Condition: all hands are fine shape but crystal is badly cracked. A part of face is damaged, an area about the size of a match head at the very margin. When wound up, it runs so main spring must be good. Case looks like peuter so nuttin' fancy.

Taking offers!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 02:29 PM

The swing out case was popular in the days of the fine railroad watch. I have one with the Canadian Pacific name and beaver on the bridge.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 12:46 PM

Froggie, the Hamilton is 1898 a real rare beauty.

PDG, you have a swing out dust proof case, yes pull up on the stem, it will release the mechanism fully and you pull the movement up to see the serial number.   don't be afraid to pull it, sometimes they stick a bit, don't torque it just a straight pull. Likewise swing it back, press down the stem

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 10:30 AM

That 937 is gorgeous, Dan; what year would that be?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: pdq
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 09:51 AM

I have a Waltham from about 1900 that has been in the family for a long time.

It's open face with the winding stem on the right (3:00 o'clock). Condition is a bit rough.

I want to find a serial # but the movement will not come flip up completely. Only about 1/4 inch.

Is there a trick to this?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 08:48 AM

Most welcome Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: David C. Carter
Date: 23 Jun 12 - 06:08 AM

Dan,I already thanked you over the phone for the Elgin Pocket Watch.

I just wanted to say it again in public,as it were.

It goes with me every where.Can't imagine being without it!

Thanks again.

David

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 10:25 PM

sorry here is the inside and back, also note the jeweler name on the movement, Hamilton did that in the early days

inside

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 10:21 PM

Very Very Rare Hamilton 937. The lever set 937 was full railroad grade. I only saw one other guy that had one since they only make around 8000 of them, check out my serial number
what a beauty and what a find

front

inside

back

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Jun 12 - 03:22 PM

I picked up another Molnija with SU3602 movement on eBay recently - cheap as chips, but with a fantastic movement. Haven't measured it yet, but it looks like around 14s or 12s...

Little Molnija - face

Little Molnija - movement

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 May 12 - 02:59 AM

Sorry Kendall - thought the word was the same in the US as in the UK. Over here an 'Albert' is the standard watch chain with a T-bar and a shorter fob chain at one end, and a claw clasp for the watch at the other end. Known as an 'Albert' because of it popularity with Albert, the then Prince of Wales - later Edward VII. The 'double Albert' is the one with two equal lengths of chain running from the T-bar.

As for the 'Albert' body piercing - just don't ask!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 30 May 12 - 02:49 AM

An Albert? Wuzzat?

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 29 May 12 - 05:49 PM

I think it was Q that said the Silveroid cases like yours and mine were actually more expensive at the time then the gold ones. Keystone made fine cases, you see them in most RR grade watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:33 PM

Dan, the case is a Keystone "Silveroid" nickel one with screw bezel and screw back. When the bezel's off, you can see a slot where the lever for a lever-set movement could fit.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:30 PM

Kendall, it's waiting to be held by you when you come down south. I'm just looking for an anchor chain to make into an Albert for it!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:29 PM

That's a beauty Will, looks like a Philadelphia Case also
My Illinois has the same case

awesome

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 29 May 12 - 04:14 PM

I have two of those beautiful bits of ballast.When I carry it and my .38 I can hardly keep my pants up.

I didn't bring either to the UK and I feel naked!

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 May 12 - 07:07 AM

Mmm... that link to the face should be:

Face