BS: Old Pocket Watches

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 02:57 PM

NAWCC site seems to be case sensitive.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 02:54 PM

Doesn't recognize my password. Have contacted, but no email yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 01:54 PM

For some reason I can't get into the club. Got tired of trying, but I'll be around to match watches.
Now I'm going to wind up all my watches and see which one is most accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 12:37 PM

14 lever set is unusual, I think. Usually 16s or 18s. Could be wrong. Put a query on NAWCC with description.
Are the jewels 'screw-set'? These jeweler name watches can have anything from so-so to excellent movements, usually Swiss. With the 25-year case, could be pretty good. Some have RR acceptable movements.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 11:58 AM

Any of you folks ever run across a pocket watch marked "Camerden & Forster, New York" on the dial? They were jewlers/importers on 5th Avenue NY City at the turn of the last century, and apparently did more business in clocks than watches. Also sold statuary, etc.

Mine is a size 14 stem wind lever set in a Crescent 25 year GF case, so at least the case is US made. The jeweled (15?) movement is also only marked "Camerden & Forster" so would be interested to know if their movements were Swiss, French, US, whatever.

Best,

Greg

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 11:01 AM

That 574 I gave you Captain was Malin tuned you bet it is dead nuts accurate. For a long time that was my carry watch. Beautiful precision watch.

I was looking at the pocket watches that he made. I dropped my teeth, he cuts the cases out of a solid brass chunk of metal, machines the threads, polishes it so it shines like gold. Puts the crystals so you can see the mechanism running also. His watches like his cases are masterpieces. I could never afford one .. but wow .. breathtaking. I looked at a mantle clock he hand made ... that blew me away also. The hand carved work ... my God the guy is a master.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 05 Sep 11 - 08:05 AM

I'm in. Bring it on.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 08:55 PM

Kendall sign up for the NAWCC it is free
http://mb.nawcc.org/index.php

join my thread with the Elgin I gave you. By the way those guys on that site are the best of the best, they are the experts on watches. Most have written books and done extensive research ... they got the answers to any watch history ... amazing site for research

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 07:35 PM

Wouldn't be fair. This old Elgin runs right on the money every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 04:30 PM

oops- 21j Crescent Street. I have it running. In a hunter case, the lever exposed so that the front doesn't have to be unscrewed.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 04:13 PM

Hmmm. May use a 23j Crescent Street. Easier to wind and set.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 02:38 PM

I registered. I am trying to regulate a 1919 Waltham model 1908 16s 17 jewel.
It was running slightly slow. Now a tad too fast. Any advice on how to approach this without equipment?

I have better(?) watches, but this one is in a nice gold-filled hunter case and is a pretty little watch, easy to carry. A little trouble setting the time as the crown is too tight for my old fingers.

I will repost this at the NAWCC site if they "activate my account."

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 12:14 PM

Hey Q,
I started a thread on the NAWCC site for a great pocket watch wind off. Myself and the guys are going to take our best watch, Wind it up to US Official time clock via web ... run them for a month and then report the findings. So far we have 950's a bunch of rare RR models and some low ends ... Going to do this Tuesday at noon sept 6 till oct 6 at noon ... wanna play ... most welcome or anyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 10:50 AM

Sundial/s a little tough to read on cloudy days & at night, tho. ;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 11 - 06:22 AM

And a sun dial beats them all. Never needs cleaning, oiling or resetting.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 09:23 PM

And a thirty dollar Timex will keep as good time as a Rolex.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 08:53 PM

Rolex actually is near the bottom of the precision watch price range. A Patek Philippe will easily run $15,000, and watches with 'complications' up to $100,000, or more. These are watches that are in bare bones steel-gold cases, without gems encrusting the case.
These watches hold much of their value, and some bring large markups at auction sales, much like classic cars or other limited production high-end items.

There is an after-market that takes Rolex and similar watches and 'upgrades' the cases and dials with gemstones, pave diamonds and the like. This gilding the lily is really conspicuous consumerism.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 07:33 PM

Dan, I agree. Rolex strikes me as nothing more than conspicuous consumerism. Never had the slightest desire to own one.

This old Elgin you gave me is dead on with my computer every time I check it. Perfect is like unique, neither can be qualified.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:44 PM

Doctors here are undressed without a Rolex.
My no. 2 son is married to a physician. Took him a while to raise the cash to get one for her.

I have a pre-WW1 ladies Rolex. That was a time that they made run-of-the-mill watches, before they got in the certified, precision watch business. A rare one, I think because few survived the junk man. Got mine for $5 at a household auction. I saw a man's' on Ebay, but I didn't follow the bids. I was after a 60-hour Bunn Special. It went for a reasonable price, but I haven't got it yet; I hope I wasn't shafted.

The current Rolex batch is good at holding a good part of the purchase price, as long as one has the papers to show that all work done on them was by Rolex-approved technicians.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:36 PM

That 1941 992B that I bought. It has been running for two straight weeks. I have not reset it once, wind it every two days and I am here to tell ya it is dead nuts on with my cell phone. They will go toe to toe with any Rolex and probably outshine them

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 04:14 PM

My doc buddie gets a boner over Rolex watches. I never wanted one, first of all I could never afford one but even so, I would rather have a Hamilton ball railroad pocket watch or a Hamilton 950 over one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Sep 11 - 02:23 PM

An adv. in the New York Times caught my eye. Ball watches.

Starting in the 1890s, Ball authorized and sold RR approved watches that are much sought after.
They were produced by Hampden, Illinois, Waltham (and others?) I haven't checked.
The watches advertised are wrist watches, COSC certified automatic, mechanical.

Prices start about $2500 for COSC approved models, about half the cost of the cheapest certified Rolex.
They have micro gas light technology (can be read at night) which is guaranteed for 25 years. They are good to -40C standard and 7500 G-force shock resistance.

The Company is USA owned and the watches are produced in Switzerland. They are accepted by all railroads and others requiring accurate timing of operations.

I have asked Santa Claus for one.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 10:41 PM

wow Q those are great watches, that is indeed a good surprise for sure

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 09:08 PM

Pleasant surprise today. I have a small South Bend p. watch that I picked up with a box of costume jewelry and misc. Couldn't get the back unscrewed (3 piece case), but the watch runs accurately. Finally got the watch repair guys at Sears (they are good, they rent space in the store to open it up and found it had the 21j Studebaker movement, adj. to 8 positions. They said it didn't need any work, and was clean- just needed to fix the cross-threaded back.
I looked on Ebay and found a couple, $400 approx. asking, that the sellers say run.

At a garage sale a while back I got a Rado quartz because it is a good quality make, with a sapphire crystal, and sell for better than $1000. Only ran for a bit, but the same guys looked at it and replaced a couple of parts (someone had messed with it). Now it runs fine.
They have certification from most Swiss makes so get parts quickly.

They cannot get parts for Rolex because they are available only to those certified for Rolex and backed by an authorized jeweler (nearest in Toronto in Canada). They are authorized for Omega, Ball, and most others that are CSOSC certified for accuracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 31 Aug 11 - 07:21 PM

Ok this one is for sale for 100 bucks if anyone wants it
1910 Elgin 15 Jewel. But before you say 100 bucks Dan.
Malin replaced every worn part in it. Been cleaned, oiled timed by a master. He laughed when he gave it back and said, this watch will go toe to toe with any railroad grade after I was done with it. And it does. Absolutely perfect timekeeper. Perfect dial .. some brassing on the back case.

A steal at that price. ya may find them cheaper, but you won't have one that is completely functioning like the day it was made. PM if anyone interested

1910 Elgin

backside

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 03:46 PM

Herga Kitty is correct. John Harrison submitted his fourth design (he worked on the problem for years) in 1761 for the 20,000 pound 'longitude' prize offered by the British government. He published in 1767.
In France, Pierre Le Roy in 1748 invented the detent escapement characteristic of modern chronometers. "By 1766, Le Roy created a revolutionary chronometer that incorporated a detent escapement, the temperatur-compensated balance and the isochronous balance spring: Harrison showed the possibility of having a reliable chronometer at sea but these developments by Le Roy are considered as the foundation of the modern chronometer." (Wikipedia)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 09:09 AM

Thanks for that, Kitty. You have to admit, I was close. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 08:32 AM

Kendall - as far as I know, the chronometer was invented by a Yorkshireman, John Harrison. The BBC showed a film (Longitude) about him, with Michael Gambon as Harrison.

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 10:04 PM

Just knowing the difference between a chronograph and a chronometer is a pretty good recommendation.

BY the way, was it a Scot who invented the chronometer? Up until then it was impossible to know what your longitude was.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:10 PM

The guy is redoing a chronograph for a Christies auction so I suspect he knows what he is doing for sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:09 PM

I don't think he has any intention of selling the Rolex, he just wanted it to run. He has several that he bought new, I know that only Rolex will touch those, this one is an antique he just wanted to keep and use . You could be right should he want to sell it in the future. I seriously doubt anyone would know the difference in any part Malin put into a watch. His work is first class and may have used Rolex approved parts don't know

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:06 PM

Rolex doesn't have enough history to interest me.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 06:39 PM

Unless he used certified Rolex parts (only available to Rolex approved venues), he may have devalued the watch considerably (and voided any existing guarantee).
It may run well, but will no longer be of any interest to Rolex collectors.
This holds for several of the better makes, including Patek Philippe.

I am not an owner of one of these prestigious watches, but If I was, i would take it only to authorized facilities, preferably the one under the maker's name.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 06:17 PM

Great story , my doc buddie screwed up his antique Rolex bigtime. Got an estimate from Rolex ... 895 bucks to fix it. My Amish guy completely repaired it to mint condition .. 189 dollars .. perfect condition, perfect runner.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 03:10 PM

The 992B I just bought left the company in 1941. I think the ones in the 40's were the best myself. The case serial number matches also. What I been finding on ebay is that many of the expensive mint condition ones you see were actually pieced together. They put replacement dials from Larosa and replacement cases etc.. Nothing wrong with that but if they are going to ask 700 or so bucks for one it should be completely authentic I think. I made a heck of a deal on this lastest one and it is completely original and keeping perfect time. I clean up the dial so it looks great now

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 10:47 AM

My Amish Guy
don't expect to see your watch for a couple of months he is swamped but he is as honest as the day is long and will fix it for a fifth of what you will pay anywhere. He lives 45 miles from me so I don't want to act as the middleman for sure.

M.L. Shetler, Watchmaker
7676 Route 62
South Dayton, NY   14138

Send it priority mail, insured with delivery confirmation. Put a note saying I sent you to him. He is not just a repair man, He makes watches from scratch .. a true throwback master with over 40 years of practice.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 08:59 AM

Ya Q but not near as much fun. I mean come on, if you are late for that dreaded dentist appointment, you can blame your 100 year old pocket watch .. try that with a new fangled atomic clock

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 09:18 PM

Sometimes looks are important.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 09:01 PM

Too bad, olddude. A $100 atomic watch resets on the continuous time signal from Colorado, so is always accurate. 'Tain't purty, but it does the job.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:45 PM

The 992 I carry is mint. I left the shop in 1919 . I tell ya properly tuned any of the Hamilton RR watches will keep Railroad time even today or better. I bet I don't lose 20 sec a week on my 992. If ya get a chance to snag one cheap even not working grab it

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 05:16 PM

The 1926 dollar is worth about $12.00 today, so the 992 cloks in at $692.00

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:26 PM

The above and other info at https://home.comcast.net/~k_singer/hamilton_watch_co.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:21 PM

Hamilton prices, movements. Otto Young Catalogue, 1926

The 950 (without B) goes back to about 1900.
Prices of movement in basic cases from their adv. in a railroad magazine-
950- $103 list, $85 to RR men
992- $57.70, $48.50 (This was before 992B. 992B new double roller in troduced in 1940s (haven't checked exact date)
952- $70.30, $60.00
996- $54.50, $45.00
974- $30.40, $25.00

950 description- Bridge movement, pendant or lever set, 23 extra fine ruby and sapphire jewels in gold settings, Patent motor barrel, gold train, Escapement cap jeweled, steel escape wheel, double roller escapement, Sapphire pallets, Breguet hairspring, micrometric regulator, compensation balance, double sunk dial, Adj. to temperature, isochronism and five positions.

992 description- 3/4 plate movement, lever set only, 21 extra fine ruby and sapphire jewels in gold settings, double roller escapement, sapphire pallets, gold center wheel, steel escape wheel, micrometric regulator, Breguet hairspring, double sunk dial, compensation balance, beautifully damaskeened, adjusted to temperature, isochronism and five positions.

Informative adv. Descriptions given for other models as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 03:18 PM

The 950B was issued in two forms- stem set and lever set. The Ebay offer doesn't say.
The 'S' serial numbers are peculiar, S 28.. would be c. 1945. Haven't got the Shugart price book, dunno what its retail value is now, but I imagine about $900-1000.

The old 1875 keywind-keyset is on time after 24 hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 01:43 PM

Hey Q
did you ever see a 950?
I don't know anyone that owns one ... don't I wish .. wow what a beauty
I look at these things and my wife says "looking at watch porn?" LOL

hamilton 950B

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 09:08 PM

I got him working on that 21 Jeweled Illinois gentleman watch circa 1920. He is going to put new hands on it. Fix the hair spring , clean and service, polish the case. Can't wait to see how that puppy runs. That would make an outstanding carry watch as I wouldn't cry if I messed it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:49 PM

Can't buy anymore watches Q not for a bit ... Kid in vet school new roof, unless I unload some art that I collected for years. One of the antique flea markets has a 23J bunn ... trashed up pretty good but I can get it for around 150. I am sure the Amish guy will hit me about 200+ to restore but that would be well worth the money ... Got my eye on it and it is hidden way back in the store so hopefully it will remain until I can do it.

You got some real gems. I wound up a 1911, 17 Jeweled Elgin, perfect dial, some light brassing on the case. Kept dead nuts accurate time. I gotta get this new 992b cleaned. It will be 3 months before I get it back from the amish guy but he will charge me all of 30 bucks to clean oil and time. He may do it for free, he has done that for me a few times cause the guy likes me and I send him business.

On the zenith web, I see no bids on that 992. If you can offer the lady say 75 bucks maybe she will take it. I have a place for replacement dials at 21 bucks and probably 30 or 40 to have it sericed by my amish guy ... no brainer for a watch that sell in the jewelry stores here in town for 300 - 400. Ya may want to think about that. I don't know the lady but looks interesting.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:41 PM

Wound and keeping time today-
Ladies Elgin size 0, 1904. Flea market buy. Three color gold fill case.
Ladies South Bend, size 0, 1911 (my grandmother's)

Hampton 18s, New Railway 23j (wish it was the Special)
Waltham 16s, P S Bartlett, model 1899, 17j, ser. no. for 1902. A nice watch, not worth much, but light and easy to carry. Three-part case.

Illinois 18s, America, keywind and key set, 1875, ?jewels. Been keeping time for 6 hr, now if it keeps up for 30 hours-
I had to go to the net to find out it was key set. Couldn't find a lever, and the top is just a knob to hold the ring.
I love the ornate 24hr dial. I will send some pictures.

South Bend, 16s, 3 part case, can't get the back unscrewed so don't know the movement. This one came with a box of costume jewelry at a house auction.

Watched some stuff on Ebay. A 23j 16s Bunn Special, not the 60 hour, went for $525. One that is 60 hour is up to $1525.00 and still 2 days to go. Several good Bunn's are up, go to Ebay and enter Illinois Bunn Special.

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: olddude
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:24 PM

Is that the 574 I gave you captain. I had that cleaned before I sent it. At least that one didn't get banged up in the mail like the other one

Subject: RE: BS: Old Pocket Watches
From: kendall
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 08:11 PM

My Elgin is right on the money with the computer.