ornaments on the tin whistle..

Subject: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: qrs
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 02:05 PM

I would like to know if anyone of you mudcatters can explain more complicated ornaments on the Tin whistle.

I am from Sweden, and I can tell you that it is hard to find people that play this instrument well.

I know how to play tripplets, cuts, rolls(short and long) would like to learn "cranning" and other things so I get better on the instrument.. (feels that i am kind of stuck..)

Please help me.

regerds to ya all!!

qrs

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: j0_77
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 02:38 PM

Can you play a tune yet?

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: qrs
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 02:52 PM

Yes jO 77 I can play tunes reels jigs etc..

What I would like to learn is more advanced ornaments, like those roll on the D etc.

Thanks for your answer jO77

Regards

qrs

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: j0_77
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 02:54 PM

Cran is a decoration used on the Uilleann Pipes.
Typical use is on the first or second note on the Chanter - D or E.

It is written as a 1/8, 1/4, 1/8,1/8,1/8,1/8. The notes used in a D cran are a D g d f# d. That said it does not sound like the little notes are 1/8 notes but very very tiny. The Piper's description is very accurate 'snap out the small notes'.

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: j0_77
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 02:58 PM

Rolls are two kinds short and long. The quickest way to get those is to listen to Michael Coleman Irish Traditional Fiddle recordings and pick up what you like.

I bet the first thing you notice is the 'famous' long roll.

A roll is a standard 'turn' with a lil note added. It is that simple.

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: qrs
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 03:26 PM

Thanks jO 77!!

At last I know how to learn cranning on the whistle (I just have to do the figure a couple of 1000 times!! But practise is fun!)

Another question jO 77:

When I hear those slow tunes, airs with Mary Bergein, Laurence Nugent or any other good tinwhistle player,

They seem to play some kind of ornaments that I Have great problems to hear.. I think it is easier to hear rolls etc in a fast tune than ornaments in an air for example..

Can you explain some of them?

Thanks for the help again jO 77

QRS

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: j0_77
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 04:54 PM

I am not an expert really so you'll have to fill in the blanks. I learned from a Co sligo Flute Player who showed me how to play with my feet (I ain't jokin) I began right and stayed that away.

Mary Bergin has several recordings out go www.amazon.com for the CD refs.

You are probably asking bout 'triplets' which I do not do on whistle but are similar to the ones on the Chanter which I can do but rarely use. Confused yet:) The idea is to finger the opening really quickly three times. D d d sound. Then when you get that off well you can incorporate it into a roll or turn.

I strongly recommend you to find a record of Miko Russell of Co Clare Ireland who has recorded Irish Trad Tin whistle the way I heard it played as a child. Now I am not saying that is the best or only way - just that it is a great way to play the tunes so you get the hang of counterpoint. My Grandfather was a Fiddle player and he called that 'Turning the Tune' he meant Counterpoint of course not a roll. There is a lot of confusion on this issue.

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: alison
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 10:31 PM

Hi,

If you send me an email address I'll send you the handout I give students on ornamentation.

Or check out Mike Simpson's tin whistle tutor .....for anyone who bookmarked it befroe it has changed address..... he takes you through all the ornaments.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: j0_77
Date: 30 Aug 99 - 11:44 PM

Great Site Alison :) Love the Jig - fine finger twister if ever there was one. Jez doncha just love these folk sites.

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: qrs
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:37 AM

Thanks all of you and what a great site Alison!! Please send me that handout My E-mail is

[e-mail]

qrs

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: alison
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 10:52 AM

Its on it's way... it is just a very basic version of what you will find at the site above. but it covers all the things you mentioned.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: qrs
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 11:25 AM

Thanks Alison!!

It is good to have it all on "paper"! But it is not the "slide" I mean in the airs.

Some other ornaments, sounds like triplets (strange ones)

have you heard or know of any other ornament for airs and slow tunes Alison?

Regards

QRS

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: GeorgeH
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 12:32 PM

Fine site indeed. But Mike really ought to add Flook! to his list of recommended performers . .

G.

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: j0_77
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 03:33 PM

Hi George :) Who/What is Flook?

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: Jo Taylor
Date: 31 Aug 99 - 06:54 PM

Thanks, Alison for a good site - I'll have a proper explore soon. But - the best advice I could offer would be to LISTEN and most of all to FEEL the music. I have a neighbour here in France whose daughter has rows of cups & medals on the mantelpiece for her accordion playing, & technically her playing is impeccable. But what she plays is not music... It's no good just learning from books - get out & play with others, feel it - it will happen, it does come, it may take some time...
Jo

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: alison
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 02:05 AM

Hi

I use most of the ornaments I sent you on slow airs...... the difference is that they are slowed down which means they sound different from when they are played rapidly in a jig.

the triplet you are talking about is probably just a slowed cut or strike. Or it could be a roll which would have 5 notes, (I know 5 doesn't equal a triplet) but it revolves around 3 notes in the tune.

I don't use crans, don't like the sound of them.. sound great on pipes though, and maybe on lower whistles than the ones I use.

But I do use a lot of slides up to notes because you can do them really slowly in airs.... and they sound great especially in the high register.

Have fun...... might send you a mediaring voicemail let you hear what I'm talking about....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: alison
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 02:56 AM

Check your email.. just sent you a brief lesson on ornaments

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: GeorgeH
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 08:52 AM

jO 77: Flook! are, IMO, the best "new" band in the UK at this time. If I didn't hate the "celtic" word I'd use it for them; there's a fair "Irish" count in their music, but it goes much wider. What's special with them is the interplay between their members - combined with extra-ordinary ability on their instruments. Visit:

http://www.flook.co.uk

to find out more.

They are about to start a long UK tour to launch their new CD - I posted an announcement of our concert with them (Cambridge) yesterday.

G.

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: qrs
Date: 01 Sep 99 - 11:23 AM

Thanks again Alison!!

Thanks to you I can Listen to the cran, tap, etc.

I´m on my way to install this "voice mail" prog. so I can send you a test back (if it´s ok with you)

I agree with you that the cran sounds strange on a tin whistle, but I have plans to use it on my Low whistle.

If you wish you can hear some soundclips with our band "The Banshee".

Click here!! By the way my name is Anders Svensson..

QRS

ps Thanks again for your superb help Alison!!

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: alison
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 12:06 AM

Thnks for your voice mail Anders it sounded great

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: j0_77
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 01:21 AM

George since the Chieftans poularised Irish Traditional Dance Music there have been many good and not so good bands follow them - IMHO - there are not that many people capable of playing a Reel well. I despair of bad music even in Celtic, it sounds like you've never been spoiled like me.

Fact is if you had the opportunity(is that a pun?) to hear some of the great exponents of the 'art' I believe like me you'd be more enthusiastic than most. Try listening to Jim Morrison Fiddle(Seanachie Records) or Joe Cooley Accordian (Dont know which label) or any of the 'Kerry Slaibh Lucra' players or a folk player in that tradition like Matt Crantitch Fiddle (He has a new CD out it's in a Band cant think of the name r now BUT it is great from all accounts). Put it this way ( Don't wanna make any one mad) you'll have to poke around to find the good session players - by all accounts I made there are 100 fakes and one genuine article.

I have been into and out of celtic and currently involved with 'Old Timey Gospel' which is very very beautifull music. As an aside I play the Old Timey Banjo which is yet not as exposed to the Public as say the Flute Pipes etc.,

The very same problem surrounds the 5 string Banjo as the Pipes/Fiddle etc., people play em in public without first getting the music right before hand and that is why so many people make fun of Banjo pickers with slogans on their tee shirts like 'Tune it or else' !

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: GeorgeH
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 08:28 AM

j0 77: Not sure what your point was . . My intense dislike of the work Celtic is that it's become meaningless; the outstanding performers (of whom I've heard a few) are burried in a morass of semi-competetent performers out to make a fast buck. Plus a lot of the "Celtic" baggage is closer to romantic fairy tale than to facts. So I reckon we're actually pretty well in agreement. And I can't recall any of the fine musicians I've heard whose music might be lumped under the "celtic" banner use the c-word to describe what they do.

As for Flook! - two of the current band are rooted in Irish session music (and as far as I can tell all of them can enjoy a good session). But they wouldn't claim to be playing the music as - say - Irish dance music. They are strongly rooted in traditional music, and have a great love of it, but they make something very much of their own from it. But their web site contains better descriptions of their performances than I can manage.

G.

Subject: RE: ornaments on the tin whistle..
From: qrs
Date: 02 Sep 99 - 11:19 AM

Thanks for your compliments Alison!