Pennywhistle - please help

Subject: Pennywhistle - please help
From: GUEST,Jenny
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 01:27 PM

Please help. My husband has for a long time wanted to play pennywhistle. I thought for Christmas I'd get him lessons but don't know which whistle to buy for him. He's got several Clark ones, I think the C and D. However, they don't seem to have much of a range and, to be honest, they don't sound very good. I know you can get a very long whistle. Is this the Low D one and does it sound better. Thank you for any input you can give.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 01:32 PM

Most music for whistles is written for a "C" or "D" (not low D, the regular one, about 10" long) whistle, and more for "D" than "C".

In general, the thicker the walls of the whistle the more octaves you can get out of it. My fave is my feadogh (sp?) which I got at Lark in the Morning. The chrome ones with the bright plastic mouthpieces (I forget the brand name) are also very good. Personally, I don't like the Clarkes with the wooden fipple plugs (heretic, I know).

You can pay hundreds of dollars for a REALLY good whistle, but for a starter you needn't.

Hope this helps.

Alex

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Zebedee
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 01:34 PM

There have been lots of threads on whistle playing.

I'll dig some out if no-one beats me.

The truth is that if he can't make a clarke sound good, he'll have less chance with a low D

will send more when i have time

Ed

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: GUEST,Den at work
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 02:21 PM

I wouldn't encourage starting a beginner on a low D. Check out a Generation D (regular size) whistle. They are reasonably priced and generally sound pretty good. You may even luck out and land a real gem as I have on occasion. Good luck Den.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Noreen
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 02:25 PM

Some previous threads, Jenny:WHISTLE Recommendations?

Help: Tin Whistle books for beginners

Tinwhistle Preferences

There a lot more, search for "whistle" in the forum search (in the drop-down menu under 'Quick Links' above.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 02:27 PM

Definitely not low D. Generation is what I'd suggest. They can be got from Lark if you have no local store that sells them. I suggest a regular D whistle.

Here's the pennywhistle page from Lark:

click me!

Alex

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: NH Dave
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 02:36 PM

Since one plug has already come out in this thread, I'll mention Andy's Front Hall, which has a web site at http://www.andysfronthall.com, strangely enough.

Clarkes run $10.95, in C and D. Feadog(their spelling) cost $7.00 in D. Waltons around $6 and Generations around $7.50 to 10, slightly higher in nickle.

Dave

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 02:41 PM

The truth is that if he can't make a clarke sound good, he'll have less chance with a low D

Geez Ed, what a nice way of saying, "Jenny, your husband ain't worth a tinker's damn." (:<))

Actually Jenny, you have gotten the good threads linked above and they should be of help. Happy reading, and if you have additional questions, just ask.

Personally, I think your husband should stop mucking about with the Pennywhistles and move up to the quarter jobs, skipping the Nickelwhistles and Dimewhistles altogether. If you're rolling in green, I'd suggest bypassing the Quarterwhistle to and go right to the Buckandaquarter Whistle.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 02:51 PM

Low D whistles are a bugger and a half to play.

Clarks tend to have a very "breathy" sound that a lot of people like. Generations are less breathy.

Click here for Chiff and Fipple - it has all sorts of information on whistles and playing, and it's fun to read.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: NH Dave
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 02:58 PM

Thank you, Someone, who cleaned up my aweful attempt at html.

Dave

---

You're welcome, Dave. There's some information on how to do links and other simple HTML in the FAQ, if you're interested. --JoeClone

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 03:30 PM

I like the susato whistles myself, but for a starter I think your better half should stick with a Clark sweet tone(available in 5? colours) which costs under five pounds stirling, whatever that is in your money. They are relitivly quiet and very forgiving

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: alison
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 08:01 PM

I can't make a Clarke sound good.. and I'm a damn good whistle player *grin*.. she said modestly..... or maybe I can but I just loathe the sound of them....

Generation.... everytime... especially the silver with the blue top.....

sweetones are nice...

Low D is beautiful... but you need long fingers and very big lungs... better to start with a smaller one.....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 09:55 PM

G'day Jenny,

I've playe a lot of pennywhitles over the the last thirty years and most of them can be coaxed to make a good sound ... strangely, they get better as you get better. There are a few specific problems with different brands and models and sometimes these can be fixed easily (or should have been fixed before they left the factory).

Perhaps it is because Clarkes are no longer a family firm, but recent ones (the last few years, that is) have not been as well finished as they need to be. I have made them sound a lot better for people with just a few gentle pushes in the right places with my thumb ... but it is knowing where and what and why that makes this work.

The quickest improvement comes from getting the tinplate above the front end of the fipple (the wooden block) down flat and getting a narrow, even gap right across. This gives a clearer, less 'breathy' sound. I can improve it a lot with a firm shove in the centre with my thumb. It is even better if you can slip a thin metal shim in the centre and force the tinplate down with a smooth metal surface (say, the back of an old spoon). I like to get a sharp corner to the top, (by having a shim of the right width and thickness as a 'former') but this is probably supererogatory.

I also coat the exposed wooden back with Araldite (©) to seal the wood (and any leaks, where the wood and tinplate don't match up well). This is a bit of work, but I like the result (OK ... it is something different from my other 100 + whistles!).

It is worth remembering that the first really impressive tinwhistling I ever heard on record was an old LP (1960s?) of Tommy Makem ... playing a bog-standard tinplate Clarke in the key of 'C'.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 07:30 AM

Here is a note sent to me by an old friend Bill Ochs. It may help with whistle information for you. Cheers, Larry

From: [e-mail] (Bill Ochs)

Dear Friends,

I have just published a new 9 x 12 inch edition of my book, The Clarke Tin Whistle. The new edition includes a 74-minute CD in a sleeve on the inside cover. For those who already have the original edition of the book, the CD is also available separately in a jewel case.

The book and CD are compatible with ANY D tin whistle. The package features complete instruction for beginners, ornamentation tips for more advanced players and 83 traditional tunes from Ireland, England, Scotland and early America.

The book/CD package is currently available from a distributor called Book Clearing House for $16.95 US. Book Clearing House is selling the CD in jewel case for $9.95 US.

If you live in North America, you can order via BOOKCH's toll-free phone number: 800-431-1579.

If you live outside of N. America or prefer the convenience of online ordering, you can order the Clarke CD via the BOOKCH website:

www.bookch.com/music.htm

Book Clearing House's postal address is 46 Purdy Street, Harrison, NY 10528, USA. (Phone outside of US: + 914-835-0015; Fax: [phone]; E-mail: [e-mail]).

Best wishes,

Bill Ochs

P.S. I am currently at work developing a website. It should be online by February at . In addition to product information, it will feature tin whistle soundfiles and music transcriptions.

----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (rly-zb05.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.5]) by air-zb04.mail.aol.com (v77.14) with ESMTP; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:45:50 -0500 Received: from relay21.smtp.psi.net (relay21.smtp.psi.net [38.8.22.2]) by rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (v77.27) with ESMTP; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:45:44 -0500 Received: from ip176.bedford4.ma.pub-ip.psi.net ([38.32.73.176]) by relay21.smtp.psi.net with smtp (Exim 3.13 #3) id 145sYY-0001DY-00; Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:45:36 -0500 Subject: New Edition of Clarke Tin Whistle Book with CD Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:48:16 -0000 x-sender: [e-mail] x-mailer: Claris Emailer 2.0v3, January 22, 1998 From: Bill Ochs Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Message-Id:

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Musicman
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 10:17 AM

Well, so far nobody has mentioned my favorite whistle..... so I will now......

The Walton's (or Soodlums) mellow D.

I find they have a much sweeter sound then Generation (don't like them but play them when i need other keys.... ) but my fav is the mellow D. A little big bigger bore on the whistle give a nicer sound to my ear (and they tend to be a bit easier to play for beginners.)

I also play the Low D (Cheiftan), and yes, they are more difficult to play, not for a beginning player.... but beautiful when you get the hang of it..

musicman

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: GeorgeH
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 12:48 PM

Surely the point about "if he can't make a clarke sound good, he'll have less chance . ." was really "until he can make a Clarke sound ok . . " rather than anythng personal?

Also - it doesn't appear to have been stated here - all whistles have the same "basic" range. Once you can play comfortably within that range you can extend it by techniques like over-blowing - at which point your choice of instrument may well affect what you can achieve.

G.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: GUEST,Jenny
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 02:04 PM

Well, thank you all for the replies. This has been a very good help to me. I have read all the information given and will stick to the whistles he already has. Didn't know that all whistles have the same "basic range". Thanks for telling me, George! He used to play the trumpet so maybe that's why he sounds so terrible. Anyway, I'll get him a few lessons and maybe that will help. Thanks again.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: GUEST,Tom Dowling
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 12:28 AM

I recommend highly the Bill Ochs "Clarke Tin Whistle" Book, recently re-released with a CD instead of the tape that came with the prior edition. Bill has a love for the music and a feel for the traditions that, taken together, have gotten a lot of beginners over the initial hump from hacking to playing nice music. As far as whistles are concerned, I do not think there is a better low to medium priced whistle than one of Thom Larson's 'Tweaked' Clarke D whistles. Thom takes a standard Clarke conical whistle and fools around with the mouthpiece a little (actually, narrows the windway and performs some other subtle modifications)and gives you a great beginner whistle. Thom can be contacted at THEWHISTLESHOP.COM. Thom also offer a cut fipple, but I do not prefer that. I like the wedge shaped fipple the Clarke comes with. These are good beginning whistles at around or under $25.00.

I would avoid a low whistle at all costs until you have a few years of the 'regular'whistle under your belt. I'm only at this seriously for about two years, and have a few more pricey whistles. In the end, the Clarke is a great beginnig whistle.

The whistle has been a source of great joy to me, and I wish you luck in this regard.

Tom D.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 07:49 AM

yesterday I came across this whistle site and from that one, this one

Roger

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 12:55 PM

Maybe you could go to a folk workshop,there is one at the whitby festival,Ive never been,but ive been told its very good,I hope to go there this year.All the best. john

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Sooz
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 03:44 PM

I've got several different whistles but my favourite is a "Sweetone" in D. I would just love a low D whistle and have tried several but the holes are simply too far apart for my fingers. I suppose its a good job I didn't splash out before I found out.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 03:52 PM

Sooz did you have a look at the whistle site I linked to? If so what did you think?

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: JeZeBeL
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 05:32 PM

There's only one type of whistle you need really and that's the susato usa D, C and F really etc.......

Emma xxx

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 05:49 PM

Roger, thanks for the reminder about Clips and Snips. When I followed the link, I discovered I must have been there before, because I'm already cookied. It must have been months ago, because I'd completely forgotten. I'd obviously omitted to bookmark it, so without your reference, I might never have found my way back.

Any reason why you didn't include a link to Dave Auty's Whistle Workshop", which is also reachable via that first link you gave? Another site well worth bookmarking.

Here's yet another great whistle site, and one I haven't seen mentioned much: The Sessioneer. (On arrival, click on "Tin Whistle guide" in the left-hand frame, and it offers a menu of some 30 pages, including several which make up a well-structured tutorial. Another terrific resource. Why is the whistle so specially favoured out there in Cyberspace?

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Whistleworks
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 06:25 PM

No one has mentioned mostlikely the best whistle site on the internet...www.chiffandfipple.com administered by Dale Wisely. Of course that's my opinion. I could be wrong.

Bob Pegritz

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 09:48 PM

I'll second that motion about Chiff & Fipple; I subscribe to the free periodical e-letter which is full of interesting tips and reviews. Dr Wisely is consistantly entertaining as well.

I'm sorry to see so much disdain for what is probably my favorite whistle - the "Traditional" Clarke. My old "C" is probably 30 years old now and I was just playing it this afternoon at a Niece's Graduation party. It plays and sounds as good as it ever did. I might have tweaked the fipple a little, and sanded the exposed end of the wooden wedge smooth, then sopped it with mineral oil (which helps prevent it's swelling with moisture and shutting down). for all these years, it has been my "Old Reliable".

I've never had a Generation that would play worth a hoot without some judicious tweaking, but some folks love 'em.

Have also never test-driven any of the newer wonder-whistles currently on the market; some day I hope to - but that old tin Clarke will always have a place in this traditionalist's gig-bag... and heart.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: lady penelope
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 06:16 AM

I've had a whistle lounging on the shelf for the last two years ( I had started to learn when I found that one of my cats violently disagreed with my choice of instrument, negative conditioning succeeded with the cat winning the argument ) my cat ( sadly )died 18 months ago and I'd only recently thought about taking it up again. I found the same problem about 'tutors' and this thread has given me a wonderful resource so I can get going again, CHEERS!

TTFN M'Lady P.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: mcpiper
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 07:31 AM

I have a bit of a collection, mainly Generation, but with two Clarkes and a Soodlums. The type of music I am playing at the time alters my choice. I like the Generation Bb for slow airs and some gentle ballady type songs, the Generation D for reels, jigs etc, and the pair of battered looking C Clarkes are for breathy mood type backing or songs that need an air of mystery about them. The little Generations, F and G are loud strident little buggers to play and I don't use them much. The Soodlum has a big sort of presence, almost a straight workman like tone and I use it to play marches and the like. I have an Eb Generation also, very sweet, but unless the group can do that key, it plays solo.
My vote for consistancy and value for money- Generation, the ones with the blue mouthpiece.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 07:37 AM

Fionn I only found the Clips and Snips site the other day (via the Chiff and fipple board) and I like it as it has mp3's of people playing tunes. I downloaded some to play along to, as I was learning some of the same ones myself, they should be of help getting my timing sorted out.
Dave Auty's site is very good and he has posted at Mudcat before so I thought everyone knew of his site, but of course new people drop in all the time so it is a good idea to mention it again.
I will have another look at the sessioneer, I know I have looked at it and meant to go back.

Jezebel come on down to Sheffield with your Susato whistles, Brian Howard lives here and he rants and raves when he sees someone playing one of them !!!!I love to watch, one of these days he will explode

Roger

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: InOBU
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 07:39 AM

Hey! Anyone ever seen a whistle in A? I never have, just wondering... (Huge numbers of singers sing in A, causing one to do all sorts of Cathal McConnel digital gymnastics to play with em...). Larry

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 07:45 AM

I have a Shaw A and it is wonderful

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 09:37 AM

There's a link to Chiff & Fipple in my 12 Dec 00 post.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Snuffy
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 10:36 AM

I too have a Shaw A, which has a lovely tone but requires twice as much breath as my Generation Bb.

I use the A for playing tunes in D, and I have a little Shaw E for playing tunes in A.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Sooz
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 12:45 PM

Thanks Roger - I hadn't seen the site before. Its like an Aladin's cave (or is it Pandora's box?)

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 04:01 AM

Yep, you should have read the thread, Bob Pegritz (Whistleworks). I didn't include a clicky for Chiff'n'Fipple with those others I gave, simply because Jeri had already done so.

C&F is certainly the best at what it does, but some of the other sites mentioned here offer much more than Dale Wisely attempts to do, in terms of learning to play and hearing others play, as Dale would be the first to acknowledge.

Roger, should Brian Howard's name mean anything to the rest of us, or just Jezebel? I men he wouldn't be connected with Howard whistles for instance?

I have to go along with the defenders of Clarkes. If Alison can't get them to sound well, perhaps she is not as good as she thinks she is. They do need some tampering - the moisture-sbssorbing wooden fipple is a nuisance and benefits from a coating. (Anyone thinking of using Araldite or similar twin-pack glues on their whistles should bear in mind that if you heat the mixture it becomes very liquid, so you can run it into cracks and apply it very thinly.)

Continuing frustrations with an upmarket Burke D (which really ought to be a fine instrument, but isn't quite) has steered me back to a Susato, which has even better volume. Hitting the higher register does get easier with practice, on mine anyway, but it will be a long time before I have the confidence to try in public. The consequences of just missing are indescribable.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 06:52 AM

Thanks ROger and folks, I haven't seen Shaw whistle's over here. I'll check out the web site you mention. As to clarks, I like 'em also, but it takes playing with prasing that appreciates the breathy sound of the thing.. Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 10:52 AM

Hi InOBU.

Susato make a tunable A whistle.

Mike

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 12:29 PM

Fionn he 'is' Howard whistles. That is why he gets so upset when he sees competitors low whistles in his vacinity !!

Roger

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 01:12 PM

Some A's here shaw susato
There are Overtons there too but the prices aren't shown (expensive?) and susatos with interchangeable shanks and one headjoint A/B flat for example, anyone tried one?

Roger

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 02:13 PM

Speak his name and he appears, when I arrived at the pub last night the room was empty except for Brian
(he who does not update his website too often)
He showed me his latest whistle, he is making high D's and still refining the design
Lots of technical explanation followed on tuning (right over my head)
I asked why A whistles seem to cost much more than D's, they ain't a lot bigger so there isn't much more metal in them says I
Brian Howards thinks it is to do with development cost, you can sell a lot of D's thereby getting back design costs relatively quickly, A's don't sell in large numbers, don't think Brian makes A's?.
Anyway though his website doesn't show them Brian is making high end D Whistles and has also made a harp. I have seen the whistles on a website of some US instrument store but can't remember which one, not sure if he is making harps commercially or if it was just a trial model.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Whistleworks
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 01:22 PM

Dear Friends,

I have a Copeland in A and it is my second favorite whistle in my modest collection. I also have a Sindt A which is very nice as well. These are a bit more expensive, but if you are recording with the A or doing live performances, a whistle of this caliber should be considered a concert instrument.

Good luck.

Bob Pegritz

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: alison
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 10:10 PM

Fionn... it depends what sound you like..... I don't like the really breathy sound of the Clarke...but I don't mind hearing other people play it... I'd just rather have the crispness of a Generation.

In OBU.. the Susato A whistle plays beautifully (even in the top register.... *grin*)

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 02:36 PM

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 14 Jun 01 - 07:25 PM

You'll need to elaborate on that, Roger.

If you've got Mr Howard for a neighbour, that will explain why I've not heard you mentioning the Overton for a while.

Subject: RE: Pennywhistle - please help
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 12:17 PM

I live across the city from Brian but we go to the same pub
He doesn't know I have an Overton and its off to a new home next week anyway, I never really mastered it, next time I will start off smaller with an F or an A. Luckily its a friend who wants it so I might get visiting rights !!