BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:08 AM

"War crimes my arse - the Palestinians wouldn't register on the Richter scale next to your boyos" - Christmas

Ehmmm not from the want of trying their utmost Christmas old chap.

Gaza indeed would have been a far, far better place had the Palestinians who lived there in 2005 stuck to their side of the bargain and stopped attacks on Israeli civilians. Had they done so then all border crossings would have remained open along with work opportunities inside Israel.

They bleat about the lack of this and the lack of that due to Israeli and Egyptian blockades restricting "humanitarian" aid and essential supplies, yet for some rather weird reason they seem to have no problem at all "importing" Grad Rockets supplied by Iran to fire into Israel to targets at ever increasing ranges - strange that isn't it Christmas?

The BBC's biased reporting of the current conflict is typical as they challenge every single thing stated by any Israeli spokesperson while they pander to and simper at the unadulterated propaganda spouted by Hamas (Mind you that might have a great deal to do with the fact that if the questioning of Hamas spokespersons got a bit pointed the person asking those questions might find themselves being given a private flying lesson from the roof of a nearby building).

The question I would ask any Hamas spokesperson would be:

"Please draw for me what you would consider to be the acceptable borders of the States of Palestine and Israel in this "Two State Solution" that you purport to be fighting for."

It would be a request that would receive no answer from that particular quarter as they deny Israel the right of existence - period. And that Christmas is why there will never be any meaningful talks or peace settlement for as long as that Hamas attitude prevails.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 05:00 AM

I think Teribus hit on something, smack in the middle. I've noticed that the biggest Hamas sympathizers on here, are from the U.K., and someone keeps posting Hamas slanted articles from an Irish paper(shame on them)..and in the U.K. you all tend to listen to the BBC, and therefore the bias that a lot of you may have, is because you're believing your media at face value...and NOT considering an objective narrative. You may also notice, that in the U.K., that the BBC influences parallel with Obama's dealings. It is widely seen, the U.S., that Obama's Administration is the most hostile to Israel, of any Administration since 1947, when the U.N. gave land to Israel..(I suspect you all know the story.)

I suggest that those who normally watch the BBC, try watching another source, and just listen. Chances are you'll be pissed off....but that will only be because your used to the story, with the biased delivery of it, and some of which, have assimilated their 'upside down', view of it all, but are being 'talked out' of their 'Common Sense'.

That's why when I first came one here, I pointed out about teaching people HOW to think... as opposed to WHAT to think!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 06:04 AM

Many of the Palestinian figures subsequently quoted, by the UN and other international organizations, "are not worth the paper they're written on," Reuven Erlich, the director of the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center, told The Times of Israel. "They're based mostly on Palestinian sources in Gaza, who have a vested interest in showing that we're killing many civilians."

His center, he said, thoroughly researches the casualties. In order to ascertain an accurate identity of the dead, the center's staff researches the person's background on Palestinian websites and searches for information about their funerals and for other hints that could shed light on the person's true occupation.

The authorities in Gaza generally count every young man who did not wear a uniform as a civilian — even if he was involved in terrorist activity and was therefore considered by the IDF a legitimate target, military sources said.

| The Times of Israel When numbers in Gaza masquerade as fact

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 06:08 AM

"someone keeps posting Hamas slanted articles from an Irish paper(shame on them)"

The Irish Times has a reputation for being antisemitic.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 08:49 AM

"In fact," he wrote, "more than two-thirds of the fatalities are males aged 18 to 60, despite the fact that they represent around 20% of Gaza's population."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:06 AM

The Meir Amit Intelligence and Information Center found, on July 23, that 775 people had been killed in Gaza, of whom 229 were militants or terrorists (135 Hamas, 60 Islamic Jihad, 34 from other terror organizations); 267 were civilians; and 279 could not yet be classified.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:14 AM

"Motre like fucked, Boo."

I agree Greg, Hamas are fucked.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 09:23 AM

But never mind the nuanced discussion or grey areas. Pro-Palestinian rallies are now rampant with anti-Semitism that doesn't even bother pretend to be something else.

The bigger problem is that pro-Palestinians who are not participating in this shameful hatred are absolutely silent. They feel no need to condemn the perpetrators, let alone eject them from their movement.

Yet the reputations of some major Canadian institutions and individuals depend on doing the right thing here. Trade unions like CUPE Ontario and the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, liberal Christians including the United Church of Canada, peace groups and university student unions have endorsed the pro-Palestinian narrative, an ideology that is now unambiguously linked with Jew-hatred.

Legitimate organizations should have known they were playing with fire from the start. The anti-Israel movement has always attracted the most extreme fringe elements. It was probably inevitable that those who are motivated by bias toward Jews would soil the movement when push came to shove. But now that the moment has come, what will the movement's legitimate allies in labour, churches and activist circles do about it?

============================================================================================================================================

Now that pro-Palestinian activists are chanting "death to the Jews" and "Hitler should have finished the job," that is no longer really a debate. Jew-hatred is at least part of the fuel that has blown this comparatively minor regional conflict into the biggest obsession in geopolitics.

Squawking about Israel drowns out every other cause on the planet, clogs the United Nations with ceaseless anti-Israel motions and eclipses global awareness of conflicts that have claimed millions more victims.

The pro-Palestinian movement has a problem it needs to acknowledge and address. And so now do the erstwhile legitimate organizations that have jumped on its bandwagon.

Until they confront the Jew-hatred in their own house, they have no credibility speaking out on injustice elsewhere.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Opinion+Anti+Semitism+infiltrating+protests/10067321/story.html?__federated=1#ixzz38lkdAmH1

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:03 AM

"UNRWA has admitted that a Hamas misfired rocket hit a U.N.-run school in Beit Hanoun in northern Gaza, according to Channel 2′s Ehud Ya'ari, but an errant IDF artillery shell also may have hit the facility, where Gaza sources claim an estimated 17 children and United Nations personnel were killed and 200 others were wounded Thursday afternoon.

Other sources have said the death toll is closer to 10.

Ya'ari also reported that one IDF shell struck the school, but this has not been verified.

The IDF spokesman remarked, and UNRWA confirmed, that misfired Hamas rockets fell and exploded in the area of the Beit Hanoun school. The IDF also reported there was significant combat in that area, where Hamas has used schools and hospitals as terror bases. The army shot artillery shells at Hamas targets, and one of the shells may have gone off course.

However, if even one of the explosions was a result of Hamas rockets, which seems to be the case, foreign media will have to throw up their hands in surrender to their constant attempt to show Israel as a mass murderer of innocent children.

Israel was immediately blamed for supposedly bombing the school, and UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness jumped all over the IDF for the tragedy.

Israel has made it clear that Hamas is responsible for any and all deaths.

Foreign news agencies already have blamed Israel and have published gory pictures of the aftermath of the attacks, which came a day after U.N. Secretary-General Ban-Ki moon expressed "alarm" that 20 rockets were found for the second time in a UNRWA school but that they had "gone missing."

… Approximately 20-30 percent of Hamas rockets have landed or exploded inside Gaza, and Channel 10 television said that UNRWA, after having spewed out anger at the IDF, has confirmed that Hamas was the source of the attacks.
UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness, who has been strangely subdued about not knowing that rockets were hidden in at least two UNRWA schools – and that number is certainly much larger – turned up the volume with his usual anti-Israel condemnation over the bombing of the school.
Gunness told Israel Radio that UNRWA tried to coordinate with the IDF during the day to leave a window open for civilians to leave the school, but that request "never was granted." He tweeted, "Precise co-ordinates of the UNRWA shelter in Beit Hanoun had been formally given to the Israeli army."
He has not had too much to say about the rockets that "have gone missing."
His boss U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon, who was not so worried that the first batch of rockets found in a UNRWA school last week was turned over to Hamas, now is furious that no one knows who picked up the second batch. A wild guess might be, possibly, maybe, that they went back to their rightful owners, Hamas.
"Those responsible are turning schools into potential military targets, and endangering the lives of innocent children," Ban stated.
"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:03 AM

"No country would accept rockets from above and tunnels from below."

Ban Ki-moon today.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:21 AM

http://www.businessinsider.com/idf-troops-show-what-its-like-inside-gaza-homes-rigged-with-bombs-2014-7



and

http://news.yahoo.com/parsing-obamas-phone-call-netanyahu-222200115.html

"In a phone call between the two men on Sunday, President Obama stressed several points, which could be divined in slightly contradictory lights (emphasis mine):

The President underscored the United States' strong condemnation of Hamas' rocket and tunnel attacks against Israel and reaffirmed Israel's right to defend itself. The President also reiterated the United States' serious and growing concern about the rising number of Palestinian civilian deaths and the loss of Israeli lives, as well as the worsening humanitarian situation in Gaza.
Building on Secretary Kerry's efforts, the President made clear the strategic imperative of instituting an immediate, unconditional humanitarian ceasefire that ends hostilities now and leads to a permanent cessation of hostilities based on the November 2012 ceasefire agreement. The President reaffirmed the United States' support for Egypt's initiative, as well as regional and international coordination to end hostilities.
And then the kicker: "The President stressed the U.S. view that, ultimately, any lasting solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict must ensure the disarmament of terrorist groups and the demilitarization of Gaza.""

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:23 AM

Cairo (AFP) - Egypt's army said Sunday it has destroyed 13 more tunnels connecting the Sinai Peninsula to the Gaza Strip, taking to 1,639 the overall number it has laid waste to.

The Palestinian militant group Hamas, which is the main power in Gaza, reportedly uses the tunnels to smuggle arms, food and money into the blockaded coastal enclave.

Israel has been waging a military offensive on Gaza since July 8 to halt rocket fire, and it launched a ground assault on July 17 aimed at destroying the network of tunnels.

It accuses Hamas of using the tunnels to attacks on Israel.

Ties between Hamas and Cairo have deteriorated since the Egyptian army deposed Morsi on July 3, 2013. Hamas is an affiliate of Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood.

Cairo also accuses of Hamas of being involved in militant attacks inside Egypt, which have multiplied since Morsi was toppled.

Militant groups say their attacks are in retaliation for a police crackdown on Morsi's supporters. The crackdown has seen more than 1,400 people killed in street clashes.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:29 AM

Just put of interest Goofus, nobody from The UK on these threads have shown any support for the aims of Hamas.

Terribleus and his cronies have to say that to allow them to sleep at night as they cheer on Israeli terrorism and militant carnage.

In the meantime, Israel have now murdered over 1,000 Palestinians.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:38 AM

No, Musket.

HAMAS has murdered over a thousand Palestinians, and almost 50 Israelis.


Look at the numbers- Over 2000 Hamas rockets, 20-30% that fall in Gaza.

400 to 600 HAMAS antipersonnel rockets hitting Gaza, randomly.

No shelters, since HAMAS used the building materials and concrete to make all those tunnels.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:41 AM

Not even including the children HAMAS killed in order to make those tunnels TO PROTECT HAMAS rockets and assault squads.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:44 AM

The Institute for Palestine Studies published a detailed report on Gaza's Tunnel Phenomenon in the summer of 2012. It reported that tunnel construction in Gaza has resulted in a large number of child deaths.

    "At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials"



But any Palestinians that were killed by HAMAS are not worth mentioning to you and Jimmy.

You do not even consider them significant enough to acknowledge.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 10:47 AM

To paraprase GregF,

For you, I guess those school kids and innocent civilians don't count becuse they're not killed by Jews, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:05 AM

The 20-day war has killed more than 1,030 Palestinians, mainly civilians. Israel has lost two civilians. More than 160,000 displaced Palestinians have sought shelter at dozens of U.N. schools, an eight-fold increase since the start of Israel's ground operation more than a week ago, the U.N. said.

Three Israeli tank shells hit the school in the town of Beit Hanoun on Thursday, killing 16 people and wounding scores. The school served as a shelter for Palestinians displaced by the Gaza fighting.

Israeli airstrikes have destroyed hundreds of homes, including close to 500 in direct hits. Entire Gaza neighborhoods near the border have been reduced to rubble.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:12 AM

News flash, Greggie boy

That school was hit by an HAMAS rocket, one of the 20-30% ( 400- 600 at least) that misfire and hit Gaza.

NOW we see where all the comments about ANTI-PERSONNEL warheads are coming from.


But I suppose you just can't let go of a good lie.





"
"UNRWA has admitted that a Hamas misfired rocket hit a U.N.-run school in Beit Hanoun in northern Gaza, according to Channel 2′s Ehud Ya'ari, but an errant IDF artillery shell also may have hit the facility, where Gaza sources claim an estimated 17 children and United Nations personnel were killed and 200 others were wounded Thursday afternoon.

Other sources have said the death toll is closer to 10.

Ya'ari also reported that one IDF shell struck the school, but this has not been verified.

The IDF spokesman remarked, and UNRWA confirmed, that misfired Hamas rockets fell and exploded in the area of the Beit Hanoun school. The IDF also reported there was significant combat in that area, where Hamas has used schools and hospitals as terror bases. The army shot artillery shells at Hamas targets, and one of the shells may have gone off course.

However, if even one of the explosions was a result of Hamas rockets, which seems to be the case, foreign media will have to throw up their hands in surrender to their constant attempt to show Israel as a mass murderer of innocent children.

Israel was immediately blamed for supposedly bombing the school, and UNRWA spokesman Chris Gunness jumped all over the IDF for the tragedy.

Israel has made it clear that Hamas is responsible for any and all deaths."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:28 AM

NOW I see what Musket is all about. He has aspirations of great fame!


Keep pushing the Hamas line, Musket old fellow.



"United Kingdom to which William Joyce broadcast regularly, gaining the nickname 'Lord Haw-Haw' in the process. Joyce first appeared on German radio on 6 September 1939 reading the news in English but soon became noted for his often mischievous propaganda broadcasts.[103] Joyce was executed in 1946 for treason.

Broadcasts were also made to the United States, notably through Robert Henry Best and 'Axis Sally' Mildred Gillars. Best, a freelance journalist based in Vienna, was initially arrested following the German declaration of war on the US but before long he became a feature on propaganda radio, attacking the influence of the Jews in the US and the leadership of Franklin Delano Roosevelt,[105] who succeeded Winston Churchill in Nazi propaganda as "World-Enemy Number One".[106] Best would later be sentenced to life imprisonment for treason. "

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:29 AM

10 killed in strike on park
Associated Press 14 minutes ago

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — A Palestinian health official says at least 10 people were killed and 46 wounded in an Israeli strike on a park in the Gaza Strip.

Ayman Sahabani, the head of the emergency room at a nearby hospital, which also was hit, gave the casualty toll in Monday's strike.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:32 AM

Greggie boy,

Jimmy has already said that we cannot trust ANY statement by EITHER side, so you have not presented any verifiable facts. WAIT until the UN VERIFIES it…

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:33 AM

Or is this another "Israeli strike" by an Hamas anti-personnel rocket?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:34 AM

but an errant IDF artillery shell also may have hit the facility. Ya'ari also reported that one IDF shell struck the school

Learn to read, Bullshot.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:36 AM

WAIT until the UN VERIFIES it…

Since when do you hold a brief for the UN, Bullshot? You've stated that they're just a bunch of slavering Anti-Semites and that their numerous resolutions against various Israeli atrocities are a smokescreen.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:39 AM

we cannot trust ANY statement by EITHER side

Now YOU don't trust statements made by the unerring and ineffible Israli Government, Bullshot?

Have you lost your faith?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:39 AM

"The army shot artillery shells at Hamas targets, and one of the shells may have gone off course.
"


Yes, YOU should learn, if it it is not too late.


HAMAS is certain that ALL casualties are caused by Israeli shells, and NEVER by rockets that are seen to hit Gaza.

ISRAEL admits that SOME firing in combat may hit unintended targets.

AND YOU BELIEVE and pass on the HAMAS PROPAGANDA.


You are really something. Not a good something, but something.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:44 AM

None of this is intended to suggest that Israel is somehow above the law or should not be held responsible for any violations of human rights or international humanitarian norms. The problem is that Israel is systematically denied equality before the law in the international arena. Israel must respect human rights, but the rights of Israel deserve equal respect. Simply put, human rights standards should be applied to Israel, but must be equally applied to all others, without the exculpatory immunity that major human rights violators – such as Hamas – currently enjoy.

Unacceptably, the recent UN resolution ignores the fundamental distinction between a terrorist organization – indeed a terrorist government, like Hamas – committed to maximizing civilian casualties, both Israeli and Palestinian, and a democratic government that seeks to minimize Palestinian casualties while taking necessary measures to defend its own citizens in accordance with international law.

Regrettably, this prejudicial and pernicious UN decision – let alone the prospective one-sided commission of inquiry – will only encourage Hamas criminality, with Israeli and Palestinian civilians themselves as the tragic victims.

Irwin Cotler is a Member of the Canadian Parliament, and the former Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada. He is emeritus professor of law at McGill University in Montreal, has written extensively on war crimes law, and initiated the first prosecution under Canada's War Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity Act.

The UN, Hamas, and Alice in Wonderland

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:45 AM

Greggie boy

Proof you cannot read:

I posted:
"Jimmy has already said that we cannot trust ANY statement by EITHER side,"


YOU said:
"we cannot trust ANY statement by EITHER side

Now YOU don't trust statements made by the unerring and ineffible Israli Government, Bullshot? "

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 11:55 AM

" will only encourage Hamas criminality, with Israeli and Palestinian civilians themselves as the tragic victims.


But of course this is what Musket, Jimmy, and Greggie WANT- More civilians killed so they can blame Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 12:15 PM

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — A Gaza park was attacked Monday, killing at least 10 Palestinians, including children, a Palestinian health official said. Israelis and the Palestinians traded blame for the strike.

Children were playing on a swing when the strike hit the park in the Shati refugee camp on the edge of Gaza City, said Ayman Sahabani, head of the emergency room at nearby Shifa Hospital.

He gave the death toll and said 46 people also were wounded.

The strike on the park occurred a few minutes after the hospital's outpatient clinic was hit, leaving several people wounded. Camera crews were prevented from filming the area of impact at Shifa.

Gaza's police operations room, Civil Defense and Sahabani said the deaths and injuries were caused by Israeli airstrikes.

Lt. Col. Peter Lerner, an Israeli army spokesman, denied Israel was involved. "This incident was carried out by Gaza terrorists whose rockets fell short and hit the Shifa Hospital and the Beach (Shati) camp," he said.

The strikes occurred on a day of heavy fighting after a temporary humanitarian cease-fire as international efforts intensified to end the three-week war between Israel and Hamas militants.

Israeli jets struck several sites in Gaza and rockets continued to fall on Israel, the Israeli military said, disrupting a relative lull in the Gaza war at the start of a major Muslim holiday.

The United Nations on Monday called for an "immediate" cease-fire in the fighting that has already killed over 1,040 Palestinians, 43 Israeli soldiers and three civilians on the Israeli side. On Sunday, President Barak Obama telephoned Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to push for an immediate end to the conflict.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 12:23 PM

An honest person would say that we do not KNOW which side is responsible, but that looking at the shrapnel recovered from the wounded would determine that.

Ee cannot expect our three Hamas "stooges" (Musket, Jimmy, and GreggieF) to ever look at facts.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 12:26 PM

" Camera crews were prevented from filming the area of impact at Shifa.

Gaza's police operations room, Civil Defense and Sahabani said the deaths and injuries were caused by Israeli airstrikes."

BUT YOU BETTER NOT TAKE ANY PICTURES!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 12:39 PM

"Over the weekend, Kerry did manage to facilitate something in the Middle East: unparalleled unanimity.

Israel, the Palestinian Authority, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan were all in agreement that Kerry's efforts were undermining the attempt to bring about a ceasefire between Israel and Hamas as quickly as possible. Moreover, Kerry's framework and the ideas he presented led to an extraordinary phone call taking place between a senior Palestinian Authority official and an Israeli counterpart, during which the two mocked the senior diplomat's naivete and his failure to understand the regional reality."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 12:43 PM

Hamas killed over a thousand Palestinians?

Has anyone been told of this??

It would make front page news, perhaps bumping from the prime slot the news of how many Palestinians Israeli militants have killed since they started their aggression. (coincidentally, just over a thousand. Each bullet had "A gift from The USA "written on it for that matter.)

Call me a Hamas stooge once more I and I start posting details of your interest in small boys.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 12:57 PM

"Call me a Hamas stooge once more I and I start posting details of your interest in small boys."


1. I stop calling you what you are when you change your posts and actions.

2. I warned you not to judge the rest of us by YOUR sexual tastes.

3. I note you continue to attack those posting rather than bring up FACTS to support your posts. This is a clear indication you have nothing of value to contribute to the thread.


As long as you repeat Hamas propaganda AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN INFORMED that there is some (major) doubt as to it's veracity you ARE an HAMAS STOOGE.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:09 PM

Several Western journalists currently working in Gaza have been harassed and threatened by Hamas for documenting cases of the terrorist group's involvement of civilians in warfare against Israel, Israeli officials said, expressing outrage that some in the international media apparently allow themselves to be intimidated and do not report on such incidents.

The Times of Israel confirmed several incidents in which journalists were questioned and threatened. These included cases involving photographers who had taken pictures of Hamas operatives in compromising circumstances — gunmen preparing to shoot rockets from within civilian structures, and/or fighting in civilian clothing — and who were then approached by Hamas men, bullied and had their equipment taken away. Another case involving a French reporter was initially reported by the journalist involved, but the account was subsequently removed from the Internet.

Read more: Hamas threatening journalists in Gaza who expose abuse of civilians | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-threatening-journalists-in-gaza-who-expose-abuse-of-civilians/#ixzz38mfPt1Nh

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:15 PM

Braidedbeardedbruce has as much evidence that I support Hamas as I have about his sexual perversions.

In fact less. I have posted views that certainly do not support the aims of Hamas any more than the aims of the Israeli militants.

I have not been informed of anything by you or any of your fellow apologists for terrorists. I have however listened to the words of our Prime Minister, The US President, The UN general secretary and myriad reporters on the scene, especially the unbiased BBC.

Not one seems to concur with your propaganda and hatred towards the Palestinian people.

If you want me to change my stance, I'd have to have my conscience surgically removed, learn how to lie and lower my standing in society. Err.. no fucking thanks.

It's alright, nobody is listening to your hate. or at least, nobody important.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:19 PM

"....especially the unbiased BBC."

Ha,ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha...............ha!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:36 PM

The sensational story was too good to pass up. Israel allegedly shelled a United Nation school being used as a refugee shelter, massacring at least sixteen people who were trying to evacuate. Even worse, the media reported that Israel had the exact coordinates of the school, knew that civilians were sheltering there, and there was no combat nearby.

In other words, the media indicted the IDF for a war crime. Even though there were no credible sources, the media assumed that information they were given was true.

What Really Happened at that Gazan UN School?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:37 PM

"hatred towards the Palestinian people."


** I ** have no hatred towards the Palestinian people. I think that Palestinians in general should be treated as well if not better than the Jewish Arabs driven out of their homes in 1948.

I DO hate Hamas, and those groups that have declared they want to kill Jews and destroy Israel.

You have a problem with that???

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:43 PM

"Donatella Rovera, an Amnesty field investigator, wrote an interesting article about the challenges of fact finding in war situations.

One of her main points is that eyewitnesses are often unreliable. For example:

In Gaza, Lebanon, Libya, Syria, and other places I interviewed civilians who described what they thought were artillery or bomb strikes being launched by far away government forces and striking near their homes – whereas in reality the loud bangs and tremors were caused by mortars or rockets being launched by opposition fighters from their positions nearby. For the untrained ear it is virtually impossible to distinguish between incoming and outgoing fire, and all the more so for those who find themselves close to the frontlines.

Another factor she mentions:

Even if they disregard it, investigators must be alert to the fact that disinformation and misinformation can contribute to shaping the perception of events, the narrative surrounding the events, and the behaviour of people who take it in good faith and internalize it, including victims, witnesses, and others potential sources.

Here Rovera is referring to lies that spread quickly and then become widely believed – including by "unbiased" NGOs – before anyone has a chance to investigate. How many times have we seen that?
She gives a specific example from Gaza:

Fear can lead victims and witnesses to withhold evidence or give deliberately erroneous accounts of incidents. In Gaza, I received partial or inaccurate information by relatives of civilians accidentally killed in accidental explosions or by rockets launched by Palestinian armed groups towards Israel that had malfunctioned and of civilians killed by Israeli strikes on nearby Palestinian armed groups' positions. When confronted with other evidence obtained separately, some said they feared reprisals by the armed groups.

Meaning that "eyewitnesses" will often claim that there was no terrorist activity in the area of an airstrike and Israel wantonly and indiscriminately killed people for no reason.

This gets wholly believed and parroted by the UN and other NGOs. The Goldstone Report has many such examples.

Unfortunately, in many cases the NGOs themselves are part of the problem. Rovera admits, a little elliptically:

Conflict situations create highly politicized and polarized environments, which may affect even individuals and organizations with a proven track record of credible and objective work. Players and interested parties go to extraordinary lengths to manipulate or manufacture "evidence" for both internal and external consumption.

It is a shame that Rovera didn't include Amnesty International itself as being guilty of this, and she ascribes the lack of objectivity almost only to fake evidence that is created by one side rather than to the ideological desire to find war crimes when none exist.

They might strenuously deny it, but Amnesty and HRW have systemic biases against Israel. This article, while a step in the right direction, only scratches the surface of how NGOs themselves contribute to the culture of lies in order to issue their reports and maintain their funding without doing basic fact checks.

And while Rovera notes that some "eyewitnesses" act out of fear, she doesn't go far enough. At least in the territories, the lies about Israel are repeated so often that the witnesses will often tell Western reporters and researchers what they expect to hear rather than what happened. This isn't necessarily out of fear; it is part of their culture to ensure that Israel is always blamed no matter what. It saturates their media. I cannot count how many times "eyewitness" accounts were found to be complete fiction, and fear didn't enter into the equation. However, many of the "witnesses" happen to work for the largest employer in the West Bank – the PA – which lies constantly.

Not to mention that many anti-Israel activists that will knowingly repeat the most outrageous lies to further their own agenda.

Lets hope that this article can at least open up the discussion of how inaccurate much of the reporting and research is about Israel, even from NGOs that pretend to be objective."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:48 PM

"They might strenuously deny it, but Amnesty and HRW have systemic biases against Israel."

UNRWA can now be added to that list as they have now been clearly shown to be supporting Hamas.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 01:56 PM

IDF sets up field hospital for wounded Gazans.........you definitely didn't see this on the news.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:01 PM

It was in the Wash Post- but I doubt if the Beeb had it…might send the wrong message.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:04 PM

So now the Beeb is a hotbed of anti-Semitism, Boo? Where will it end?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:16 PM

"Where will it end?"

It won't, that's why the Jews need their own country and why they must protect themselves from those who want to eliminate them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:24 PM

Persecution of England's Jews could be brutal; recorded are deadly massacres at London[10] and York[11] during the crusades in 1189 and 1190.

On November 17, 1278, all Jews of England, believed to have numbered around 3,000, were arrested on suspicion of coin clipping and counterfeiting, and all Jewish homes in England were searched. At the time, coin clipping was a widespread practice, which both Jews and Christians were involved in, and a financial crisis resulted, and according to one contemporary source, the practice reduced the currency's value to half of its face value. In 1275, coin clipping was made a capital offence, and in 1278, raids on suspected coin clippers were carried out. According to the Bury Chronicle, "All Jews in England of whatever condition, age or sex were unexpectedly seized … and sent for imprisonment to various castles throughout England. While they were thus imprisoned, the innermost recesses of their houses were ransacked." Some 680 were detained in the Tower of London. More than 300 are believed to have been executed in 1279. Those who could afford to buy a pardon and had a patron at the royal court escaped punishment.[12]

Edward I increasingly showed anti-Semitism as in 1280 he granted a right to levy a toll on the rivulet bridge at Brentford "for the passage of goods over it, with a special tax at the rate of 1d. each for Jews and Jewesses on horse, 0.5d. each on foot from which all other travellers were exempt".[13] This antipathy eventually culminated in his legislating for the expulsion of all Jews from the country in 1290. Most were only allowed to take what they could carry.[citation needed] A small number of Jews favoured by the king were permitted to sell their properties first. Almost all evidence of a Jewish presence in England would have been wiped out if it had not been for the efforts of one monk, Gregory of Huntingdon, who purchased all the Jewish texts he could to begin translating them.[5]

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 02:29 PM

In 1144 came the first report in history of the blood libel against Jews; it came up in the case of William of Norwich (1144).[5] Julius finds that the English were endlessly imaginative in inventing anti-Semitic allegations. He says that England became the "principal promoter, and indeed in some sense the inventor of literary anti-Semitism."[6] Julius argues that blood libel is the key, because it incorporates the themes that Jews are malevolent, constantly conspiring against Christians, powerful, and merciless. Variations include stories about Jews poisoning wells, twisting minds, and buying and selling Christian souls and bodies.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 14 - 03:07 PM

So Boo, as far as you are concerned, the BBC is out to "eliminate Jews".

Get help. Soon.