Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Mark Ross
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 12:38 PM

I think that both Tony Trischka and Bela Fleck started out by learning from Pete's book.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: matt milton
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 10:49 AM

"The reason that this is not a silly conversation is that Pete Seeger's style of banjo playing has not been fully appreciated by the old-time and bluegrass community"

I'm inclined to agree - I personally think that what Pete does on Darling Corey/Goofin Off Suite is at least as technically tricksy as a lot of things Bela Fleck does, to name just one example early on in his career.

I think Pete would have got much more appreciation from the bluegrass crowd if he had prioritized whizkid showy instrumental stuff rather than songs. Personally, I'm glad Pete recorded what he did - ultimately I prefer a good song to a blindingly fast bluegrass instrumental anytime.

Furthermore, I reckon it's a lot harder to play a whole song on your own, complete with a sophisticated harmonic accompaniment and several different breaks, most of them different to each other.

Whereas all the banjoists the bluegrass crowd rate are either wholly or predominantly instrumentalists: Scruggs, Bela Fleck, Tony Trischka and others. I like almost all of them, but I think when it comes to defining "great instrumentalists", the music world is generally prejudiced towards instrumentalists (non-singers). Their loss.

"The point is not to add to Pete's book but to clarify exactly the contribution he has made to the five-string banjo
through analyzing his techniques in a thorough fashion and showing people how to do it"

well now, you're talking my language. When you said

"It's time to update the Pete book"

there was something about that bald statement that (mildly) irritated me. I thought to myself, well, hasn't the guy done enough already?!

I can see now that you meant something along the lines of "...in order to reveal Pete Seeger to be the consummate artist he is"

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 09:08 AM

The reason that this is not a silly conversation is that Pete Seeger's style of banjo playing has not been fully appreciated by the old-time and bluegrass community. The point is not to add to Pete's book but to clarify exactly the contribution he has made to the five-string banjo
through analyzing his techniques in a thorough fashion and showing people how to do it.
There are few people today who have assimilated his method of playing and particularly his ability to accompany a song. This style of playing might be an "endangered species".

Frank Proffit doesn't have Pete's musical sophistication. Actually Pete Steele was an up-picker. "Pay Day at Coal Creek" for example.

I would be interested to see how you applied what information you received from Pete's book.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: matt milton
Date: 08 Apr 10 - 07:26 AM

"Actually, Pete's recording on Folkways of Come All You Fair on the Darling Corey album uses a reverse arpeggio, T,R,M,I very fast as a rubato "bed". This is unique to Pete's style of playing"

Yeah, and he describes it in his book.

"In my opinion, Frank Profitt doesn't sound like Pete as he plays a gut-strung banjo.
Pete Seeger is a lot closer to Pete Steele, the coal miner from Ohio"

Despite the fact Frank Proffitt played a gut-strung banjo, it's the simplicity of his lines, and the fact that they drift between melody and harmony more so than a lot of other banjo players, that reminds me of Pete (and Peggy). Agreed, when Pete's frailing, there's a Steele connection.

In many ways, this is a silly conversation, as I basically agree with you: it strikes me that you'd like a book called "How to play Everything Pete Played" - which is one I'd be first in line to buy. I merely think it would be using a sledgehammer to crack a nut to try to impose that task on his charming "How to Play the 5-string banjo" book. If someone wanted to tab out loads of Pete's playing, they'd be more than welcome, but that's a different book. "How to Play the 5 String Banjo" is not supposed to be a "How to play like Pete Seeger" book. For me, Pete's "How To" has a totemic significance a little like Harry Smith's 'Anthology'. I wouldn't want someone else coming along adding bits to either.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 10:08 PM

The new "revised and expanded" edition of "Where Have All the Flowers Gone: A Singalong Memoir" includes a "data-CD with 267 MP3 song samples" to supplement the transcriptions in the book.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 05:48 PM

And valuable Becky. A wonderful song deserving of being learned any way one can.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 04:45 PM

Another source of Pete-TAB is the Where Have All the Flowers Gone memoir. John Roberts worked hard with him on transcribing TAB for that. Of course, it's not graded lessons, but still a source of how-to in the form of TAB.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 04:00 PM

Yes, this would be something accordion and bayan players would do too.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 03:51 PM

5 sring, don,but ido play atenor as well.pone interstrintg thing aboutthe tenor if you use cgda,strings and tune your banjo either dgdg or dgbg,you can play like a 5 string[see pateks website]using a flatpick or thumb melody.thisgets me wondering why not design the 5 string so the short string is on the other side that way you could fret pick or thumb melody and still play your g string on the off beats.
Frank,you mention playing single line harmony[PETE SEEGER]that is an idea that occoured to me its something i do sometimes on concertina.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 03:01 PM

"It's quite problematic, in my opinion, to talk of Pete Seeger's style as if it was one thing, and working through his book shows you that."

It is helpful up to a point. Working through his book shows you bits and pieces of his style.
It is however his original style that makes it unique and unlike those from whom he learned.

"He plays "come all you fair and tender maidens" very differently to how he plays "cumberland mountain bear chase". In fact, in some ways the more complex his playing is, the more familiar it sounds to me, because it starts to sound more "fingerstyle guitar".

Actually, Pete's recording on Folkways of Come All You Fair on the Darling Corey album uses a reverse arpeggio, T,R,M,I very fast as a rubato "bed". This is unique to Pete's style of playing.

Pete does not frail like the old-time clawhammer or frailers. He uses a different technique which involves a loose wrist and is closer to his up-picking style. It is different than
the Bob Carlin or David Holt approach. It sounds a lot different from say Buell Kazee.
He rarely plays on the base of the neck like many clawhammer players. In the earlier days, he used metal fingerpicks to up-pick and frail which the traditional old-time frailers and clawhammer players never did. Peggy, however, did use picks as I remember Hedy doing as well. Pete also used more sophisticated chords than the old-timers did. He used minor sevenths, ninths, and thirteenth chords at times. One of his major achievements was to play counter lines along with his singing which the old-timers never did. This comes from Pete's earlier influences of jazz and early popular music.

The advantage of grading and formalizing Pete's techniques would be that they would be more readily accessible to those wanting to learn that style. I think Pete would agree with that. I don't think he ever thought his book was the best that he could have done. It was important to do it, however, since at the time the book was done, there was very little for the five-string banjo in the way of instructional materials.,

"Cumberland Mountain Bear Chase" was originally Uncle Dave Macon's "Cumberland Mountain Deer Chase" and the two are markedly different in their styles.

In my opinion, Frank Profitt doesn't sound like Pete as he plays a gut-strung banjo.
Pete Seeger is a lot closer to Pete Steele, the coal miner from Ohio.

He has the BF Shelton arrangement of Darling Corey but this is an anomaly from the usual Pete Seeger style. Of course the arrangement done with the Weavers is more like Pete's frailing style.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 01:43 PM

Tenor or 5 string? Can't see much of the banjo on my screen window.

Don

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:54 PM

hi,its an open back gold tone.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: DonMeixner
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:46 PM

Hi Dick,

What kind of banjo are you playing?

Don

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:22 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMo322_OzAw

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:21 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMo322_OzAw
here is sandy river belle with plectrum,using a mixture of frailing style and second part[is more like clawhammer]
I hope this is of interest,EVEN if its not technically perfect

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 07:46 AM

Sullys 5 string books are worth looking at too,he has a book on song accompaniment for 5 string banjo which takes a different approach again,google Halshaw Music

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 01:15 AM

Mark Ross, I imagine it is.

Bettynh, yes, that is what I had linked upthread.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Bettynh
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:37 AM

The DVD and a download of the same video is available here

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Mark Ross
Date: 07 Apr 10 - 12:16 AM

If it's the same version that was on VHS from Homespun, I have seen it and it is quite good.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 10:07 PM

From: Desert Dancer - PM
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 10:33 PM

How To Play The 5-String Banjo DVD

Taught By: Pete Seeger
Level: 3
60-minute DVD, Includes tab book

(sorry to repeat myself, but it seems this might answer much of Stringsinger's wishes. Has anyone seen it? The DVD, I mean...)

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: matt milton
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 05:34 PM

Sorry, if I came across as a bit prickly it's because I thought you were suggesting some kind of putative update to Pete's book. Personally, I think it's fine the way it is. One of the appealing things about that book is its home-made look and charm. It is quite ad-hoc.

so while I'd be one of the first people to buy, say, a 'Mammoth Pete Seeger Tabbook', I wouldn't want Pete's "How To..." book to get formalized into anything - it's fine the way it is.

I agree that the old frailers I mentioned don't play like Pete. But Pete does play a little like them on occasion, from time to time - when he's frailing, say.

Pete Seeger's version of Darling Corey is clearly based on BF Shelton's, to name one example. (It's in a slightly different tuning - Shelton uses a quite esoteric one - but the playing is essentially the same idea)

And while Hedy West and Peggy Seeger are probably the most clearly Peteseegeresque of banjo players, I hear quite a few similarities in Frank Proffitt's playing to Pete. I think it's probably a certain kind of simplicity. Actually, Peggy's playing would be a better comparison.

It's quite problematic, in my opinion, to talk of Pete Seeger's style as if it was one thing, and working through his book shows you that. He plays "come all you fair and tender maidens" very differently to how he plays "cumberland mountain bear chase". In fact, in some ways the more complex his playing is, the more familiar it sounds to me, because it starts to sound more "fingerstyle guitar".

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: DonMeixner
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 05:01 PM

George Grove has a banjo instruction DVD that I have found to be quite useful. And few people are as good as George when it comes to playing the five string folk style banjo.

Don

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 04:33 PM

One of the most important things we can learn from Pete is that the banjo is far more versatile than for which it was historically given credit. He pioneered that.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Stringsinger
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 04:30 PM

Matt, I'm sure you are coming along just fine on the banjo but Pete's unique approach
is to use it as an effective musical instrument for a sophisticated musical accompaniment to singing. This is not done in bluegrass circles or even in old-time music today since that relies heavily on the string band. The playing of many of the old-time banjo pickers you cited do not play in the manner of Pete Seeger with the exception of Peggy and Hedy.
Pete introduced all of the elements that are examples in his book and could employ them with a fluidity that very few banjo players can today. Erik Darling, Bob Gibson and George Grove for example can do this. They were able to go smoothly from basic strums to complex whamming rhythms using tasteful fills borrowed from bluegrass picking. This fluidity is not just a result of practice since there are few banjo players today who can do what Pete can.

It's not up to Pete to present this material in a cogent fashion.

Frank

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 12:51 PM

Matt are you aware who Stringsinger is?
he was also a member of the Weavers and is a very highly respected teacher and performer
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Frank Hamilton

Frank Hamilton teaching at the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago, IL. November 2007
Background information
Genres         Folk
Occupations         Singer-songwriter, music teacher
Instruments         guitar,banjo
Associated acts         Win Stracke, Pete Seeger, The Weavers, Big Bill Broonzy

Frank Hamilton (Born August 3, 1934)[1] is an American folk musician and co-founder of the Old Town School of Folk Music in Chicago, Illinois. As a performer, he has recorded for Folkways Records and, as a member of the folk group The Weavers, for Vanguard Records, as well as for Philips and several other labels and appeared at the first Newport Folk Festival in 1959. He was the house musician for The Gate of Horn in Chicago, the nation's first folk music nightclub. He was also a member of The Weavers in the early 1960s.

As a young man, Hamilton met and played with Woody Guthrie at Will Geer's artist colony in Topanga, California in the mid 1950s.[2] In 1956 Frank Hamilton met Win Stracke at the Gate of Horn. Using teaching methods he observed with Bess Lomax in Topanga Canyon, together, Win and Frank founded the Old Town School Of Folk Music in Chicago. There they developed a teaching method with an emphasis on group learning. On the opening night, Frank taught the class a song demonstrated by Big Bill Broonzy. Frank served as dean of the school and taught there until joining The Weavers, with whom he played from 1962-1963.[3][4]

Hamilton continues to teach and perform today with his wife Mary.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: matt milton
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 10:48 AM

"The dynamic range that Pete plays is represented by the fluid use of the various
basic patterns. These need to be presented in a cogent and graded fashion."

I dunno; i think he gives you plenty. He goes into waltz-time, 6/8, calypso and blues - as well as more standard banjo styles you'd expect to see such as frailing and Scruggs. He mentions various banjo picking styles associated with certain individuals, such as Bascom Lamar Lunsford.

How "fluid" you get at playing them ultimately comes down to practise. This might sound like I'm blowing my own trumpet but frankly I think I'm coming along just fine. Pete's book was my bedrock, but I used a few others. And, most importantly of all, I listen to recordings of Pete Seeger, Peggy Seeger, Frank Proffitt, Hedy West, Pete Steele, Bascam Lunsford, Rufus Scrisp and the rest of the gang.

Ultimately I can't see Pete updating his book: he's far too busy being a wonderfully active nonagenarian eco-campaigner.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: beeliner
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 09:23 AM

Also of note is "The 12-String Guitar as Played by Leadbelly: An Instruction Record by Peter Seeger", Folkways FI 8371.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Little Robyn
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 03:23 AM

Kat, I realise your post above was almost exactly 10 years ago:

Do any of you know the name of Pete Seeger's guitar book which someone mentioned earlier in this thread? Or any other good guitar books and/or videos? My sister has moved up from her baritone uke and the chords she's always played and wants to do more than chords on her guitar.

but did your sister find a book?
What I think was referred to earlier is the record "The Folksinger's Guitar Guide, an instruction record by Pete Seeger", Folkways FQ8354, which has a 22 page booklet inside. It is similar to the banjo book/record and I used to put it on just to listen to Pete.
I became 'the girl with the educated thumb'!! (page 5)
I don't know if Folkways have turned it into a CD but it's possible.

But your sister may be an expert by now.

Robyn

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: beeliner
Date: 06 Apr 10 - 02:06 AM

I have the book (Third Edition Revised, 1962) and LP. If anyone wants it, please contact me.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 10:33 PM

How To Play The 5-String Banjo DVD

Taught By: Pete Seeger
Level: 3
60-minute DVD, Includes tab book

ALSO AVAILABLE AS A DIRECT DOWNLOAD. Get this DVD NOW for only $24.95 and start learning in minutes. No waiting or shipping charges! Click here for instructions - or simply open your Homespun Instant Access catalog.

Catalog Code: DVDSGRBJ21
Availability: In Stock
Price: $29.95
Sale: $19.95

Take a lesson with America's most beloved banjo picker! You'll learn the techniques Pete uses to make songs come alive-- up-picking, frailing, whamming, double-thumbing, hammering-on and pulling-off, two- and three-finger picking and more.

Pete teaches more than a dozen songs including "Darlin' Cory," "Lady Gay," "Risselty Rosselty," "Sloop John B.," "Dink's Song," "Leather Britches," "Coal Creek March," "In The Evening When The Sun Goes Down," "Quite Early Morning" and "East Virginia," among others. This video will make an enlightening and valuable part of your music collection, even if you don't play the banjo!

Produced by Smithsonian/Folkways and Homespun Video

Reviews:

"Equal parts performance, commentary, recollection, and solid instruction. A+" -- Entertainment Weekly

"Seeger opens a treasure chest full of informational gems for the musician. An exquisitely valuable videotape about how he makes music on the banjo. It is a program that has a place in the collection of every 5-string player or anyone else who loves the instrument." -- Bluegrass Unlimited

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 05:19 PM

Matt, with all due respect, I don't think that you can get the necessary beginning strums from Pete's book to cover the bases.

As Don says, there is more to it than meets the eye.

The dynamic range that Pete plays is represented by the fluid use of the various
basic patterns. These need to be presented in a cogent and graded fashion.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: kendall
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 02:44 PM

I think I've mentioned it before, but he gave me my first banjo lesson in 1969. He also gave me his book. What a guy.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 01:46 PM

here is a version of Stagolee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVpSlC7MKhs

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 01:18 PM

i am only a begiiner but I have found tht adapting my guitar style [which is basically piedmont seems to work],so i cover my 1 string with my ring,my 2 string with my middle and my 3 string and 4 string with my index, when using this style,Ialways up pick the melodyand alternate my thumb between 5 string and 3 string,as a drone and also pluck two notes together,as piedmont guitarists sometimes do,Iwill try adnd put an example up on you tube.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: matt milton
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 01:11 PM

"It's time to update the Pete book. What he implies are that there are basic strum patterns to be learned but he has few applications of it."

I'm not entirely sure I agree. That book has a lot of applications, they're just not always given in full (as Pete frequently points out in the book.

"What needs to be done now is to take Pete's arrangements and tab them out so that
the student can learn to do it his way and then make them their own"

I guess if you're suggesting someone publish a complementary "Pete Seeger Banjo Tab Tunebook" - of just tunes and songs, without the tuition, tabbed out in full, then yeah I think that'd be a nice idea.

It's an understatement to say he recorded a lot of songs though. Any such tunebook would still be highly selective.

I still think that if you were to work through most of the songs in his "How to" book thoroughly, you'd be able to work out most of his songs by ear: you do get a feel for how he plays.

Just for the record, I started playing banjo 2 years ago now, and the books I've enjoyed the most have been:

Pete Seeger's 'How to Play the 5-string Banjo'
Fred Sokolow 'Ragtime, blues & jazz for banjo' (not much jazz - mostly blues)
Barry Kornfeld Blue Grass Banjo: A Collection of 5-String Banjo Pieces in Scruggs and other 3-finger Styles (a misnomer really - its much more folky than it is bluegrass – strikes me as a very Seegeresque)
Miles Krassen Clawhammer Banjo
Alec Slater Clawhammer Banjo Solos (now available as 'Mel Bay's Complete Clawhammer book)

I don't really play clawhammer - I can, but I find three-finger style and up-picking so much more intuitive. I tend to adapt clawhammer tabs into my own thing.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: DonMeixner
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 12:44 PM

Interstinly the one banjo style I would really like to play other than frailing is The Pete Seeger Basic style. I just can't seem to get the hang of it. There is more than meets the ear going on there.

I tried to learn to frail for 15c years before a fella showed me how in 12 minutes. Probably the same is needed with The Basic style. I just haven't heard a style that fits so well with so many songs.

Don

It is always great to see an old thread come to life and bring Rick Fielding along with it.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Stringsinger
Date: 05 Apr 10 - 12:18 PM

It's time to update the Pete book. What he implies are that there are basic strum patterns to be learned but he has few applications of it.

What needs to be done now is to take Pete's arrangements and tab them out so that
the student can learn to do it his way and then make them their own.

Unfortunately, the Scruggs style has become the norm but it's not good for accompanying singing. Some of the Scruggs patterns can be used for "fills" as Pete does successfully.
Bela and Earl have dazzled the banjo world with their talents but Pete's message has always been that singing and playing is an inclusive activity. How to do this is what we must learn from Pete. There are basic patterns that Pete uses that can be applied to a variety of song material and this is what is yet to be presented in a form that can be learned.

Pete has borrowed a lot of his ideas from jazz. There are few old-time musicians that use eleventh and thirteenth chords in their accompaniments as Pete does. Pete's musicality on the banjo is vastly underrated by folkies who think that three chords and a nasal twang are enough. Pete and Peggy have intricate and lovely accompaniments to their songs that need to be explored in more detail. The banjo is a lovely musical instrument capable of dynamics, musical range and the perfect accompaniment instrument for singing.

Frank

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 09:04 PM

Well, for anyone who has been following this Thread from my first posting, I think what I am going to do is run this entire Thread off on my printer and take it to that music store where I bought my Pete Seeger 'How To Play the 5 String Banjo Book'. I am going to give it to the sales guy who thought Pete's video was so unprofessional and tell him that I would now like to please by the video.

Little Neo

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: 5-string
Date: 08 Apr 00 - 08:12 PM

Don't know any Seeger books on guitar, but there are a lot of good solo and accompany books on the market. I did my guitar by trying to follow a trio at scout camp in the early 60's who were doing Kingston Trio stuff, and then by learning classical guitar from the Carcassi method book. (Luckily, thanks to Mom insisting I take piano lessons through elementary school, I can read music.) Then Sing Out and any song books were source material. I just drug out my old "Bells of Rhumney and Other Songs" the other day - gonna try to learn some banjo to them.

Of course, this dang axe is a horse of an ENTIRELY different color! I guess I am trying to learn clawhammer first, so I can get into old time stuff (that's what my brother tells me).

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Apr 00 - 10:46 AM

Thanks, Pete, for the information, sounds fascinating -- I will check out Rick's copy of your tape, if I can pry it out of his fingers!!!!!!yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Apr 00 - 03:05 AM

Hey there Peter T, I've now got that wonderful tape of Vess Ossman, thanks to Pete P. Be glad to share it with you.

Rick

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Songster Bob
Date: 04 Apr 00 - 01:32 AM

I started with Pete's book, and one of the problems I had was that it was accompaniment-oriented. "Go Tell Aunt Rhody" didn't have the melody notes, except in sketchy fashion when they coincided with the pattern used for rhythm. And the tunes are unfinished. Three-quarters of a song and then you're on your own. But it did work, encouraged using the ears, and was a start.

When I got into teaching, I wanted a book that put things into the order I thought best for students (like Open G first, C tuning later), so I wrote one. Then I wrote another, based on what worked and what needed more explanation. A third book was as far as I got (I still have a few of 'em -- a few Mudcatters have them and I hope the books are helping the players). Email me at [e-mail] if you're interesed.

But Pete's was the first and the model, flaws and all. Where would any of us be without his lead?

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Apr 00 - 01:12 AM

Welcome to the Mudcat, 5-string. Glad to have you aboard.

Do any of you know the name of Pete Seeger's guitar book which someone mentioned earlier in this thread? Or any other good guitar books and/or videos? My sister has moved up from her baritone uke and the chords she's always played and wants to do more than chords on her guitar.

The only book I could find on the Internet, by Seeger, for guitar was one for Folksingers with 12 strings who want to pay ala Leadbelly.

Thanks,

kat

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: 5-string
Date: 03 Apr 00 - 11:22 PM

Hey, I was wondering if there were any banjo players in this site, and glad I found this thread. I recently (last couple of months), bought a Deering Old Tyme banjo, their beginner's model, and the Seeger video. Without the whole book, the insert was difficult to use, but the video is worth the price just to see and hear Pete again. I wanted to learn the banjo for old-time music (which my brother plays in Florida), and remembered Pete from the heyday of Folk (late 50's - early 60's). I have played folk and classical guitar for over 40 years, and hope to have the same run with the banjo!

5-string

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 03 Apr 00 - 10:47 PM

Peter-- Vess (Sylvester) Ossman was a classical banjo player who recorded around 1900-1910 some of the most incredible banjo playing ever put on record. Much of what he recorded was ragtime-- things which I first heard as piano arrangements-- don't think he ever recorded Maple Leaf Rag but he definitely did some other Joplin and James Scott. Poole, BTW, tried to copy some of his style from Ossman and the other incredible classical banjo player, Fred Van Eps. If you play any Scruggs style you will be aware of the repetitive patterns which are broken apart and recombined to play melodies in Scruggs' 3ifinger style. Well-- the rule of classical banjo is THERE ARE NO RULES you just play the notes hatever they are and you work out the fingerings so you CAN play the notes. I seem to have lost my Membership (I see myself showing up as Guest)-- but I will find a way if you are interested to dub a copy of an old Yazoo record of Ossman and Van Eps onto cassette.(And send it to you) Even with the recording techniques of 1910 it's pretty incredible.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Bluebeard
Date: 03 Apr 00 - 09:11 PM

It was 1963, Manchester, England, I was a young lad who loved the sound of the banjo. Bought a Pete Seeger album and his red covered "How to" book. Still got it and still playing. Pete Seeger is a true American legend !

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Apr 00 - 06:59 PM

Pete, Excuse my almost total ignorance (I am renowned around here for fool questions), but who is Vess Ossman? I have a Charley Poole and the Ramblers album, and some Dock Boggs, and a few others -- but make no claim to knowing anything about banjos. I just have sort of picked these up at random over the years. Can you enlighten me as to Mr. Ossman? yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 03 Apr 00 - 03:02 PM

I agree. Seeger got ME going, too. With the wisdom of hindsight it could have done better and there wre blind alleys but the truth is-- Seeger's book got me (and many other people) going. Focus on doughnut and not on hole. Seed-- what kind of three finger style do you have? Scruggs-oriented? mine is more Uncle Dave and Charlie Poole and Vess Ossman (as claimed two posts ago)

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 03 Apr 00 - 02:34 AM

I dunno, Pete: I got the basic strum with thumb--and a few chords--in about an hour from Pete's book. A few weeks later I was doublethumbing melodies up the neck. As I considered myself primarily a singer, I was pretty satisfied--for a while. Then, like you, I found basic strum a dead end, moved into three finger picking--helped by Earl Scruggs book and record--and finally, when I began playing regularly with some old time music fans forced myself to learn to frail. It wasn't easy, possibly because of habits learned up-picking. And drop-thumb has been much harder to learn than double thumbing: again, because of my habit of reaching for the strings with my thumb. I went back to Seeger's book when I started frailing, fine--but my real breakthrough with drop thumb playing came from Dwight Diller's instructional video (his first one is aimed at intermediate players, but he supposedly has one out for beginners now.

But still, Seeger got me going.

--seed

Subject: RE: Learning the Banjo From Pete Seeger
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 02 Apr 00 - 09:10 PM

Bonnie, I don't think so. I have seen people go from "how do I hold it?" to a good frailing stroke in a VERY short time. Basic strum took me much longer to learn-- but at the time I didn't have anybody to show me, which might be the difference. Waitaminute I just dredged back in memory to realize what you might mean. IIRC Seeger teaches the "basic strum" as pick-brush WITHOUT the thumb stroke at first and only later adds the thumb. In that case yes, you could get started more quickly with only the Basic Basic Strum. Unfortunately, ify ou do that (and I did it!) you will have even MORE bad habits to unlearn when it's time to frail. I am VERY happy for you that you have a good teacher (and I look forward to meeting him and Ms. Boots this Friday)