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BS: In Its Last Throes (Political)
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Subject: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Ebbie Date: 01 Jul 05 - 01:28 PM Cheney says (May 30) that the Iraq insurgency is in its "last throes". Rumsfeld says (June 26) that insurgencies tend to continue for 2, 4, 10, 12 years. June 2005 was the deadliest month in Iraq since the invasion. The Happy News "More than 1,000 members of the Iraqi security services had died since the transfer of sovereignty one year ago, * the US military said without giving an exact figure. "At least 1,743 members of the US military have died since the beginning of the Iraq war in March 2003, according to an Associated Press count. At least 1,341 died as a result of hostile action. Of those, 75 were killed in June, one of the deadlier months." * Can you imagine the bravery it takes for an Iraqi to make himself a target? At what point will it get safer? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Amos Date: 01 Jul 05 - 01:33 PM It's a nuts scene. It will take a lot of balls and some nasty confrontations before Iraq learns to govern itself and if it survives without being torn in half or thirds by cult wars it will be lucky. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Ebbie Date: 01 Jul 05 - 01:39 PM Can you imagine announcing one's candidacy in that political climate, Amos? A happy outcome over there doesn't seem possible. But note that apologists assure us that the situation improves daily. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 01 Jul 05 - 02:28 PM A few nights ago, Jon Stewart (only remaining "journalist" I trust) had a hilarious video montage of Bush administration and military people predicting the strength and duration of the insurgency. Talk about flip-flops, talk about schizo...scarey as hell, but hilarious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: DougR Date: 02 Jul 05 - 01:25 AM Right, Ebbie. Abandon the Iraqis by bringing all of our troops home and leave the population to the terrorists. That will ensure that the terrorists will give up their plans to attack the U. S., right? And you (and Amos) consider yourselves humanitarians? TIA: and you consider Jon Stewart a journalist? Sez a lot about your judgement doesn't it? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dianavan Date: 02 Jul 05 - 03:37 AM DougR - What plans do the terrorists have to attack the U.S.? Seems to me that the U.S. is attacking Iraq and had planned to do this long before 911. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Amos Date: 02 Jul 05 - 11:28 AM DougR has a perspective that explicitly or not is shared by many Americans -- that the conflict between AL Qeda and the US is identical to the clash between militant Muslim jihadists everywhere and "Christianity" -- two huge waves of ill-informed madness locked in a death struggle. This is a very dramatic picture, enough to rally the herds to battle stations. It reflects the deeply tragic capacity of humankind to go insane at the drop of a prophet. It depends entirely on a complete failure of imagination on the part of all concerned, a willingness to deny communication and understanding to selected "other" groups, and the will to demonize humans with great alacrity. The idiocy of it is just as ridiculous as the idiocy of the Inquisition, the babbling psychosis of the Third Reich, and the nuttiness of the Crusades. But millions of folks are being willingly sucked into this drooling nightmare of a world-view without even thinking twice about it. In our most urgent historical crises, we have often found leaders who were capable of bridging the gap and bringing about some sort of progress by drawing people out of their dramatizations. In the present circumstance this seems a scarce likelihood, given that the leaders of most of those involved are promoting the insanity rather than seeking to cure it. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: van lingle Date: 03 Jul 05 - 11:56 AM Doug, it seems that the most noteworthy thing this little war has accomplished, after the toppling of Saddam Hussein, is to provide terroists from all over the middle east with a cause and a training ground and staging area in Iraq. Their numbers and resolve seem to be growing steadily, contrary to what Cheney says and if they, the "insurgents", sucessfully deal with us over there they will probably turn their attention to the US mainland. I'd say we're less secure than ever and the only real solution is to withdrawl while reminding the world that we deposed Hussein and allow these people to determine their own future which is something which will happen eventually anyway. Propping up a "Democracy" in that part of the world seems like an entirely futile endeavor. The longer we linger there the more animosity we create. Like Nixon, it's time to declare victory and go home (only with a bit more haste than Tricky Dick). vl |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dick greenhaus Date: 03 Jul 05 - 02:00 PM Well, at least the US didn't plan to attack Iraq. They just did. We don' nee no steenking plans. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: katlaughing Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:42 PM Well-said, Van Lingle! Ebbie, I was hoping this was a thread about the death throes of the patriarchal age of Pisces, i.e. lame-duck shrub et alia losing ground and going down the tubes in the next coupla years! If we believe it, it will come (about!):-) kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,Canadian Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:44 PM If the attack was planned, then it was a CF, because the stated objectives do NOT seem to have been accomplished. 1) Hussein is gone 2) WMDs aren't there 3) The establishment of a 'new' Iraqi government seems not to be working This once again points to the total ineptitude of the 1) American foreign service 2) American intelligence communities Please tell me it should have come as a surprise that 'insurgents' would attack an occupying force. RIGHT! |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Ebbie Date: 03 Jul 05 - 03:57 PM I agree, Canadian. Can you imagine any one of us NOT resisting an occupying force?! Guerilla warfare is the only option available against the big guns. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dianavan Date: 03 Jul 05 - 04:00 PM According to blogs by American Vets, the insurgency is not comprised strictly of outside forces crossing into Iraq. According to soldiers returning home, the insurgency is largely comprised of Iraqi citizens who are fed-up with the occupation of their country. It makes sense that Iraq is now fertile ground for terrorists from all over the Middle East. With the numbers of terrorists swelling and with a battle cry of victory or martyrdom, I'd say the U.S. forces, their private contractors and their allies should face this situation with an honest evaluation. Stop lying and get out! |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 03 Jul 05 - 04:16 PM I watched around thirty aircraft at high altitude going east yesterday around 6PM Mudcat. I don't know what kind they were, but they were large and slow (I estimated 400 knots), didn't make a lot of noise and there were no contrails (spg?). They were flying mostly in threes, in a vee, with a slight difference in altitude. The vees were about ten to twenty miles apart. Some were in pairs, or by themselves. Definitely not commercial aircraft. At the time, we were cooking hot dogs and burgers over an open fire in front of my camp, watching various birds fighting. Robins with robins. Canada Jays with Blue Jays. Blackbirds with crows. And the squirrels were chasing and sassing each other constantly. Just a short time before, we watched two rabbits "bull fighting" near the fire pit. Food for thought, I thought. We raised our cans in a toast to those in the planes as they came into view. Of course, no way they could see us with the naked eye. I felt so guilty for what I was thinking... better you than I. And, it made me wonder, what are they thinking? When I started to cry, I blamed it on the smoke from the wet cedar in the fire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Amos Date: 03 Jul 05 - 04:59 PM Aw, damn, gnu -- that is a powerful short tale indeed. Thank you. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: kendall Date: 03 Jul 05 - 05:46 PM Doug, it's THEIR country. They don't want us there! Who the hell wouldn't resist a foreign occupying force? Mission accomplished... bullshit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 03 Jul 05 - 10:49 PM Interesting that DougR, who promised us quite publicly that the US had no intention of attacking Iraq (want me to go find the post and link to it?), is questioning my judgement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST Date: 04 Jul 05 - 04:39 PM Has anyone seen that "Downing street minutes"? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: DougR Date: 04 Jul 05 - 04:56 PM Amos: you post is insulting. Think about it twice indeed. You are among the small group of individuals here on the cat who view themselves as super intelligencia. The great "know alls." If one does not share Amos' view, one is a dummy. Bollocks I say. TIA: I remember posting that message. Obviously I was wrong. No one, (with the possible exception of Amos)however is ALWAYS right. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Ebbie Date: 04 Jul 05 - 11:20 PM Sometimes being wrong, Doug, is really not the issue. What the incident should bring to your mind is the inescapable knowledge that you misunderstood your president, that you were wrong in what you believed of him. You were not trying to figure out the logical action to take: You were telling us what you thought the President would do. See the difference? What was it he said? "fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." (I hope you understand that better than I do. *G*) |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dianavan Date: 04 Jul 05 - 11:50 PM Its O.K. to be wrong as long as you learn something from it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:09 AM An important part of making it O.K. is alos admitting it. Big respect to DougR. None to GWB -- still can't admit to even a teensie whoops. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:29 AM I was wrong when I supported the attack... maybe that's part of the guilt I felt when I saw those transports heading east. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:30 AM last throes of mudcat? It is now officially down more hours of the day than it is up. Time to salvage whatever lyrics and bits of wisdom and wit that's worth saving to one's own computer? Is it just about done? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: John Hardly Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:37 AM I'm the other way around, gnu. I was never for going in in the first place. The anti war movement has done more to make me wonder if I wasn't, in my initial feelings, wrong. I mostly just find myself hoping for a better outcome for the middle east. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:50 AM The civil war that many of us predicted prior to Bush's pulling the trigger on this war is underway and like all civil wars, which they are not, it won't end until long after the US pulls out... Might of fact, the longer the US stays in Iraq the longer the civil war will last... Do you know how to spell "quagmire"... This war has come to play out just like I, as well as others stated before it began... Worse than that, just as many of us were not buying the PR crap that came out of the hawks mouths prior to the war (which incidently have now been proven to be crap), we're still not buying the PR dribble that the revisionist hawks are spewing these days... Hey, I'd have a lot more respect for them if they'd just admit why we are in this war in the first place which are quite evident: 1. Oil 2. To bolster the Repubs power grab 3. Oil 4. Oil 5. To bolster the Repubs power grab 6. Oil 7. To blow up stuff so defense contrators/campaign contributors stay nice, fat and happy 8. Oil 9. To bolster the Repubs power grab and............... 10. Oil Sickenin'... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: John Hardly Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:53 AM ^ like that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 05 Jul 05 - 12:20 PM I sympathize with Bobert. Although it is not helpful now that we have been flung off the cliff, it is damn hard not to scream "I told you so". Things have played out pretty much exactly the way the pre-war anti-war protestors said they would. And for having said these things, we were ridiculed as unpatriotic to traitorous. Some bastards (Karl Rove, Sean Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter.......)continue this ridicule - very publicly. It is beyond me (us?) to understand how those who were dead wrong can continue to look down on those who were spot-on correct, and how those who were dead wrong can continue to have such apparent (though dwindling) popular support. Do you remember Bill O'Reilly proclaiming in the days before the invasion that "if we did not find the stockpiles of W's of MD in Iraq, he would apologize publically, and never again believe anything this administration said"? We seem to be a nation of Bill O'Reillys. Convenient memory loss is epidemic! Yeah, none of this helps us get out of the mess we're in, but I think we are allowed to be pissed off, because if our government had listened to us, we wouldn't be in this in the first place. Imagine that your kid - despite your warnings - drinks and drives and wrecks the car. Being mad at the kid doesn't fix the car does it? So, you gonna not get mad? Now, how DO we fix the car? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,CarolC Date: 05 Jul 05 - 12:39 PM The problem with the way DougR has been handling this is that although all of our (those of us who saw this mess coming before it happened) "the sky is falling" predictions have come true, and DougR was wrong, DougR still goes around in the threads mocking people with his worn out refrain of "the sky is falling" whenever we continue to address the very real problems that the decisions being made by the Bush administration are creating. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Greg F. Date: 05 Jul 05 - 01:12 PM ALL RIGHT! We're more than half way there. Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld & Co. only need to kill 1,076 more and they'll be tied for the number killed in the September 11th attack in NYC. STAY THE COURSE, guys! Doug R should be made to explain, in person, to the family of each and every U.S. soldier that has died and/or will die in this clusterfu$k that their son/daughter/husband/etc. died because he -and the administration- couldn't admit that the U.S. made a mistake. God Help America. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Ebbie Date: 05 Jul 05 - 01:31 PM On Meet the Press last night, Senator Chuck Hagel was one of the men being interviewed. He is vocal and articulate about the mistaken actions that got us into Iraq. (He is currently on the bueh pooh pooh list.) Quoted remarks: 'Things aren't getting better; they're getting worse. The White House is completely disconnected from reality,' said Hagel, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. 'It's like they're just making it up as they go along. The reality is that we're losing in Iraq.' When he was asked by Andrea Mitchell, the moderator, if his public remarks should not be considered giving aid to the enemy, he said that he took seriously his role as a senator and that he would speak truth as he saw it. Hagel is a Republican. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 05 Jul 05 - 01:31 PM You know, it's real sad when all you wackos are trying to justify the cut and run attitude by blaming everything on one man that lives @ 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Clearly, what DougR and I (as well as a few others) see is a country that is in need of some help and is now asking us to stay there to help. Their former dictatorial leader is in jail, schools are being re-opened, basic utilities are being restored, satellite TV is growing strong where it used to be outlawed. Above all, Iraqis now have the freedom to go where they couldn't and do what they were never allowed to do. This is freedom, people. We have it. Why shouldn't they? By your continued crying, you're really only saying one of two things. 1. We're not happy because of the fact that GWB is the one leading the way of freedom that is being offered to a once-suppressed people and providing the freedom that is everybody's human right. - or - 2. We're only saying that we want eqality for all because it sounds good. Actually, we really mean that only those that think "progressives" can do it better should be the only ones that really deserve it. So...which is it? Are you jealous or just out and out racist? Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 05 Jul 05 - 01:40 PM Personally, I don't have much of an opinion yet on what the best course of action would be (stay there or pull out). I don't think I have enough information to form a responsible opinion. I don't think you have enough information to form a responsible opinion yet either, Susu's Hubby. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 05 Jul 05 - 01:53 PM "The problem with the way DougR has been handling this is that although all of our (those of us who saw this mess coming before it happened) "the sky is falling" predictions have come true, and DougR was wrong, DougR still goes around in the threads mocking people with his worn out refrain of "the sky is falling" whenever we continue to address the very real problems that the decisions being made by the Bush administration are creating." By the sound of this statement, CarolC, is looks as if you have a strong opinion and, in fact, pretty much have made up your mind about a lot of things. Just because you haven't thought about some things in depth doesn't mean that other people haven't. Don't think for me and I won't tell you how wrong you are. Deal? Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 05 Jul 05 - 02:12 PM No deal. By the sound of this statement, CarolC, is looks as if you have a strong opinion and, in fact, pretty much have made up your mind about a lot of things. Just because you haven't thought about some things in depth doesn't mean that other people haven't. Don't think for me and I won't tell you how wrong you are. I do have some very strong opinions (based on information I have been able to find on various issues) about a lot of things, including the legitimacy (or lack of legitimacy) of the US invasion and occupation of Iraq, the real motives behind the Bush administration's invasion and occupation of Iraq, and the astoundingly inept and counterproductive way that the Bush administration as prosecuted the "war", including its flagrant disregard for the human rights of the civilians in Iraq. I even have opinions on how the Bush adminisration ought to do some things if it continues its occupation of Iraq. But I do not yet have a fully formed opinion on whether or not the US should continue to occupy Iraq. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,CarolC Date: 05 Jul 05 - 06:48 PM (This post is from me... I'll verify it when I can get in the front door.) BTW, regarding this overly simplistic and totally wrong statement by you (and the two completely irrelevant choices that accompany it), "By your continued crying, you're really only saying one of two things"... Just because you haven't thought about some things in depth doesn't mean that other people haven't. Don't think for me and I won't tell you how wrong you are. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 05 - 06:53 PM Screw you Hubby... Don't go callin' me no friggin racist because yer boy has an army disporportionately black killing other people of color in Iraq... If there's any racism here it's on yer side of ther fence and you OWE ME AN APOLOGY... I AM NOT A RACIST!!!! But you won't give one. Why? Because you, like yer hero, think you can just say anything you want... And, BTW, you OWE some other folks here an APOLOGY, too.. The gall... I mean, this is about the dumbassedness thing you have ever said and that is sayin' somethin'... Racist, my butt.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Jul 05 - 06:56 PM Bobert, Regardless of your accusations, you have never given any evidence that OIL had anything to do with it. Might as well say we are there for the sand- they have a lot of that, too. All I have asked for is some logic behind your wild comments. We are buying oil from other countries and selling to the civilian population in Iraq at below our costs, to stabilize the government. The Iraqis are selling what oil they can get past the terrorists to the entire world, at market prices, as they were doing before. SO, where do you get the idea that the invasion was over oil or the control of oil? Did we invade Saudi Arabia? They have a lot more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 05 Jul 05 - 06:57 PM The 05 Jul 05 - 06:48 PM Guest,CarolC post was from me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 05 - 07:07 PM Why would we invade Saudi Arabia, bb... They in tight with the Bushs... Been so going back everal deacades... Okay, you tell me yer theory on why we're there, bb... This ougttta be interestin'.... Or if you'd like you can just pick from the evergrowing list: 1. WDM's 2. Mobile chemical labs 3. Nuclear weapons program 4. Drones capiable of dropping chemical weapons on us 5. Aluminum tubes 6. Ties to Osoma bin Forgotten 7. Saddam was a bad man 8. Ahhh, Iraq needs democracy 9. All of the above 10. None of the above but ____________________________. (fill in yer own here... Hey, you can't do worse than Bush who ain't even hit the target yet...) Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM Bobert, How about because Saddam was in violation of the ceasefire agreement, multiple UN resolutions, and when given a FINAL chance refused to comply with his obligations under those terms and resolutions? Or don't you think there should be any effective enforcement of ceasefire terms? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 05 Jul 05 - 08:26 PM We are buying oil from other countries and selling to the civilian population in Iraq at below our costs, to stabilize the government. The Iraqis are selling what oil they can get past the terrorists to the entire world, at market prices, as they were doing before. beardedbruce, please provide some documentation for these assertions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Jul 05 - 08:34 PM when you ask bobert for the documentation for his assertions. or is it only the facts you don't like that you want to have evidence of? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Jul 05 - 08:42 PM http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/printstory.hts/page1/2122995 |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Amos Date: 05 Jul 05 - 08:45 PM Susu's Hubby: I submit that invading foreign countries unilaterally is about as wacko a policy as we have ever resorted to. Like many here I protested the decision to prosecute Iraq for the sins of others not of Iraq; don't argue that this was not the case. In almost every speech he has made about the Middle East Bushbrain has tried to get people to associate the two things and insisted that invading Iraq was a reasonable extension of the "war on nounless generalizations". I predicted that in doing so he would create a staging area for every disenchanted jihadist from the Med to Chernobyl to come take on the Great Satan. This may have seemed excessively clever to him, but I disagree. Consolidating a widely separated enemy is not usually a smart strategy. Once the invasion was begun, I only hope we could end it quickly, but we could not, predictably. Especially because the Bushbrains in DC had no plan to follow up their inevitable overwhelm of the Iraqi army, and failed to understand how long reconstruction would take even without the insurgency which they so incompetently misunderestimated. This has been one badass cockup from the gitgo, pal, and you know it. If half the goddamn money that good-for-nothing poured down the drain in Mesopotamia had been spent on upgrading our energy independence we would be kissing Arab oil goodbye for once, instead of continuing to die for it. And just by the way, ONE of the reasons Saddam's regime had to go is that they had promised their oil output to Elf Aquitaine, the French petroleum magnates. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Jul 05 - 08:59 PM http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/chron.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Donuel Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:04 PM When Bush visits Fallujah we will know the all clear has been sounded... http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushfalluja.jpg |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dianavan Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:10 PM brarded bruce - Your link, "Houston-based Halliburton Co., the contractor hired by the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers to repair the dilapidated energy infrastructure, has been ordered to bring refined products into the country. So far, U.S. taxpayers have spent some $562 million under the Halliburton contract to bring in gasoline and other fuels and make needed repairs to Iraq's gas distribution network, according to the Army Corps of Engineers. In fact, that effort has accounted for nearly half the $1.22 billion worth of work that Halliburton has performed in Iraq since the war. Instead of blaming Iraqi fuel prices (which according to your link, have always been subsidized in Iraq) perhaps you should put a little pressure on Halliburton to do what millions of tax dollars have paid them to do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:21 PM Hmmmm, according to bb's charts it would appear that when the Repubs are in office the oil prices spike and when the Dems are in they are more stable... Okay, I'm convinced.... Maybe we should have attacked Irag... (But, Bobert, that don't make no sense... Why support the Repubs, or a needless war, when the oil price are gonna spike under "Big Oil" Repubs in control...) Okay, I'm not convinced... Maybe we need a few more bb links fir the reality of just how screwed we are under Bush to sink in... Got anymore, bb??? BTW, you might wanta actually check them out before posting them 'cause that last one sho nuff din't help yer arguement on bit... Meanwhile, still waiting on a friggin' APOLOGY from susu's Hubby fir callin' me a RACIST fir not buyin' into Bush's PR crap... And I'd like one fir the other folks here who have been slandered for being, ahhhhhh, CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!!! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Donuel Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:22 PM http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushprivate1.jpg |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:30 PM when you ask bobert for the documentation for his assertions. or is it only the facts you don't like that you want to have evidence of? I've already seen plenty of documentation for the things Bobert is asserting. I have not yet seen any documentation for the things you are asserting. I'll check out your links. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:41 PM "Meanwhile, still waiting on a friggin' APOLOGY from susu's Hubby fir callin' me a RACIST fir not buyin' into Bush's PR crap..." No apology here, Bobster. I guess that means that you're just jealous? Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: beardedbruce Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:45 PM bobert, Unlike some here, if I find relevent information, I present it even if somre of it does not support my own desired viewpoint- I look for FACTS. Care to comment on my 05 Jul 05 - 08:00 PM ? CarolC, Lucky you. I have seen no such documentation- it seems I am expected to take what is said as divine revelation, regardless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:48 PM Yeah, CarolC, you'll love the last one... Apparently someone at Rush's office didn't check it out too well before sendin' it out to all the brownshirts and this one don't make Bush I or Bush II look too good... I'm kinda surprised that bb didn't bother to check it out before postin' it. He really shouldn't trust Rush's staff these days as word on the street is that more than a few of them are hardcore druggies themselves... And, just fir the record, unless yer livin' on Mars, bb, the observations I have made arwe very well supported by the Repub conrtolled mainstream media.... As fir violatin' a ceasefire agreement.... ahhhhh, are you talkin' about them occasionally tryin to bring down a foriegn oplane flying over their airspace??? Like maybe you'd like to allucidate on just how many planes they brought down??? As fir violatin UN resolutions??? What a joke... Maybe while yer in the mood, how many UN resolutions are the US and Isreal violating today??? Or have violated in ther last 10 years... Hey, if it makes it easier, jus' round it up to the nearest nummer with a zero on the end... And don't give me that zero crap 'er I'll turn CarolC on you like the ugly and you'll find yerseff having to hide unner the bed.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 05 Jul 05 - 09:59 PM Quagmire? I think not. Kennedy and LBJ put us in a quagmire. Nixon finally had the right idea and got us out. If we had let our military commanders fight the war instead of receiving bombing orders from the White House then that might have turned out differently as well. But I'll take this from another thread so we can all see what's really going on in Iraq. Accomplishments in Iraq ... the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty. ... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens. ... nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning. ... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent. ... on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts - exceeding the prewar average. ... all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools. ... by October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools - 500 more than scheduled. ... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries. ... all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open. ... doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam. ... pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons. ... the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccination doses to Iraq's children. ... a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women. ... we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production. ... there are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by year-end. ... the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns. ... 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily. ... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses. ... the central bank is fully independent. ... Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and banking laws. ... Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years. ... satellite TV dishes are legal. ... foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for minders and other government spies. ... there is no Ministry of Information. ... there are more than 170 newspapers. ... you can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner. ... foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go. ... a nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or executive - of a representative government, now does. ... in Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman. ... today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the country. ... 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government. ... the Iraqi government regularly participates in international events. Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the world. ... Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't. ... for the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam. ... the Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq. ... Uday and Qusay are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics. ... children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government. ... political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam. ... millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror. ... Saudis will hold municipal elections. ... Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents. ... Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms. ... the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian -- a Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace. ... Saddam is gone. ... Iraq is free. But since GWB is in the White House, I guess none of that matters? You don't even have to give GWB the credit either. Let's just say that it's America along with thirty other countries, Amos, that gave the Iraqi people their freedom. I'd be fine and happy with that from all of you. But if you can't even do that then you really didn't have any interest in the Iraqi people in the first place. As I've said before, I'm just looking for some consistency in your argument. Or does your blind hatred for our president prohibit you from seeing the good in helping another human? Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:10 PM Nice cut and paste, Hubby... You still owe me and others an apology and if you don't come forth with it then you will be the one whio will be the RACIST because it will be you, NO ONE ELSE HERE, who resorted to callin folks racists if they didn't buy into her heros PR firms crap..... Yeah, you'd love to change the subject but, hey, you talk about personal responsibility and it's time fir you to step to the friggin' plate, pal... Yeah, name callin' ain't as much fun when someone is out there to call yer hand, is it???... If you ever call me a racist again I will hunt yer sorry ass down and plant my fist right between yer eyes!!!!! And you can take that to the bank, or hospital... I am very serious here so don't side step me.... YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY... YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY!!!! Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:23 PM Bobert, You're right. I'm sorry that YOU CAN'T COMPREHEND WHAT YOU ARE READING. Nowhere in this thread did I say "Bobert, you are a racist." If you need more schooling, then go back and sharpen those comprehension skills. It sure would save me a lot of time from having to explain everything to you. Besides, I'm sure other people have stuff they would like to add to the discussion besides reading your gas about how you've been "personally attacked." Hell....I'm sure we'd all love to pitch in and help with the costs of the class if that's what's keeping you from doing it. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:40 PM Well, nice sidestep..... What I got out of yer post is that folks who disaggree with you are either "jealous" (which I am not) ot racist (which I am not).... Maybe you need to rewritwe what you had on yer mind at the time of 1:31 post... If you didn't mean what you said, fine. I can live with that but accsuinf folks who don't agree with you as being eithe "jealous" or "racist" is gonna get yer lights punched out.... And I mean this... Maybe you need to think about how you go about strutin' yer version of "either with us or against us" 'cause the way you put it up there was down right fu*ked up... So you either gonna have to explain to folks here that you mghta messed up a little with that racist stuff or yer gonna have to deal wioth me... And I'll hound you withotu mercy 'cause that was wrong on yer part... Yeah, I'm a Christain, like Jesus, I gotta a temper... You gonna stick with callion' folks racists because they don't agree with you or yer hero then it gonna be like the money changers in the temple... YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY... Ain't ''bout readin', Hubby.... You messed up, now time to fess up... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Alba Date: 05 Jul 05 - 10:55 PM Hey Bobert, your Education if top notch. You are not now, never have been and never will be a Racist. Like I said on another thread...I now filter out the pro Bushites rants, if I NEED to know what they are saying...I know where to get that info.....cause someone else said it for them already so they just cut and paste. As for Education...well, lol, that is definetly what conservatribes need. Guess they were some of the Children left behind. Either that or they need to pull their heads our of their Butts and have a look at the REAL world. Pathetic. No sense in talking sense Bobert cause all youlle get back is nonsense from the Bush worshippers. They do really beilieve what they post here..They HAVE to....that's the saddest part of it all. They really do HAVE to believe the garbage they come in here with because for them to think otherwise would be so disturbing, embarrasing and shameful that it is best for them to just to blank out the Facts. Yeah.. Iraq is Free...the insurgency is in it's last throes. ok ok ok.. fine...whatever they say. sheeesh By the way Bobert you are owed more than an apology not just for the Racist remarks. You are also owed one for the insults directed at your intelligence, which as most of us know, is way above any Bushite that posts on the Mudcat. That kind of low tactic is an example of one finger pointing at you Bobert and three fingers pointing right back at the person flinging the insults around. I have always been more of a Non Fiction reader rather than a Fiction myself...that why I find Mudcat psuedo Conservatribe posts so uninformative and inaccurate. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Alba Date: 05 Jul 05 - 11:04 PM adjustment required..(my dyslexia stricks again, sorry Bobert even after 3 proof reads I still managed to miss something...sorry:>) "Hey Bobert, your Education IS top notch" Love Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 05 Jul 05 - 11:15 PM Thankee, Alba, fir the support.... Good to hear other folks willin' to stand up to ignorant bullie/brownshirsts... Hubby knew that we were nietherr jelous or racist but he played the "race card" anyway... That makes hubby the racist because hubby was the one that brought up race if folks didn't goose-step to his guys marchin' orders... But, guess what? Americans are slowly but surely sayin' "Hey, wait just a danged minute" to Bush and his Neocon Radicals.... Yeah, lots o' folks thinkin' "Hey, maybe this weren't such a great idea" now that they ain't seein' them piccures on the TV of Saddamas stuff gettin' blowed up but seein' where our kids are gettin' blowed up.... ...and, for the record, Hubby owes a lot of folks an APOLOGY... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dianavan Date: 05 Jul 05 - 11:22 PM From your link, beardedbruce - "March 1 Iraq closes its northern crude oil export pipeline indefinitely due to sabotage concerns. The 600,000 bbl/d-pipeline, which runs from the city of Kirkuk to the Mediterranean port of Ceyhan has been the target of over 15 attacks since January 2005. The closure of the pipeline will make it difficult for Iraq to meet its targeted crude oil export level of 2 million barrels per day. (WMRC)" Hmmm - Looks like Iraq has quite a large capacity to produce. Its just that this pesky war is getting in the way. If everyone would just simmer down and sell it to the U.S. at rock bottom prices everything would be fine, eh? In other words - If the sabbotage ends, production goes up and Iraq will be dealing primarily with the U.S. to whom they will be indebted. You don't think the U.S. is over there fighting so that Iraq can sell their oil to the highest bidder do you? Susu's hubby - You are looking more and more ignorant everytime you post. Bobert is not a racist and he probably has a higher level of education than you do. Did anyone ever teach you to think critically? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Ebbie Date: 06 Jul 05 - 12:35 AM SH, I see you have repeated your cut and pasted disingenuous and downright deceitful information about conditions in Iraq. If you went so far as to read that, you must know that it is an unverified and simplistic compilation from various sources who apparently are quoting from each other. If You Read That, Then Read This : "January 4, 2004 | category: Ahmed Kharrufa • Voices from Iraq If you are visiting from Snopes.com regarding what life in Iraq and the occupation is really like the following account from an Iraqi man provides a good overview of the U.S. occupation, although it was written in January of 2004 making it a year old. For more recent information about the U.S. and U.K. lead occupation and its actual results please read some of the following areas on our website." Lots of links to pursue there- I know how interested you are in the truth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Wolfgang Date: 06 Jul 05 - 07:03 AM Asking someone if they are pedophile is not the same as calling someone a pedophile (Dianavan) Maybe SH could used this clever sidestep and replace just 'pedophile' by 'racist'? Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 07:38 AM "It is clear our nation is reliant upon big foreign oil. More and more of our imports come from overseas." —George Bush Jnr, Beaverton, Ore., Sep. 25, 2000 _________________________________________________________ Secret US plans for Iraq's oil; By Greg Palast; BBC Online The Bush administration made plans for war and for Iraq's oil before the 9/11 attacks, sparking a policy battle between neo-cons and Big Oil, BBC's Newsnight has revealed. Iraqi-born Falah Aljibury says US Neo-Conservatives planned to force a coup d'etat in Iraq .. there were two conflicting plans, setting off a hidden policy war between neo-conservatives at the Pentagon, on one side, versus a combination of "Big Oil" executives and US State Department "pragmatists". "Big Oil" appears to have won. The latest plan, obtained by Newsnight from the US State Department was, we learned, drafted with the help of American oil industry consultants. Insiders told Newsnight that planning began "within weeks" of Bush's first taking office in 2001, long before the September 11th attack on the US. An Iraqi-born oil industry consultant, Falah Aljibury, says he took part in the secret meetings in California, Washington and the Middle East. He described a State Department plan for a forced coup d'etat. Mr Aljibury himself told Newsnight that he interviewed potential successors to Saddam Hussein on behalf of the Bush administration. The industry-favoured plan was pushed aside by a secret plan, drafted just before the invasion in 2003, which called for the sell-off of all of Iraq's oil fields. The new plan was crafted by neo-conservatives intent on using Iraq's oil to destroy the Opec cartel through massive increases in production above Opec quotas. Former Shell Oil USA chief stalled plans to privatise Iraq's oil industry The sell-off was given the green light in a secret meeting in London headed by Fadhil Chalabi shortly after the US entered Baghdad, according to Robert Ebel. Mr Ebel, a former Energy and CIA oil analyst, now a fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington, told Newsnight he flew to the London meeting at the request of the State Department. "We saw an increase in the bombing of oil facilities, pipelines, built on the premise that privatisation is coming." Philip Carroll, the former CEO of Shell Oil USA who took control of Iraq's oil production for the US Government a month after the invasion, stalled the sell-off scheme. Mr Carroll told us he made it clear to Paul Bremer, the US occupation chief who arrived in Iraq in May 2003, that: "There was to be no privatisation of Iraqi oil resources or facilities while I was involved." New plans, obtained from the State Department by Newsnight and Harper's Magazine under the US Freedom of Information Act, called for creation of a state-owned oil company favoured by the US oil industry. It was completed in January 2004 under the guidance of Amy Jaffe of the James Baker Institute in Texas. Formerly US Secretary of State, Baker is now an attorney representing Exxon-Mobil and the Saudi Arabian government. View segments of Iraq oil plans at www.GregPalast.com BBC online, Thurs 17 March 2005 more here |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 07:48 AM Oils ain't oils... President Bush establishes a clear link between Iraq & Al Qaeda |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 07:53 AM we shell not... |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 07:59 AM hey Bobert - you are a good bloke. BTW, Bush and his Coalition decide to invade.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 08:02 AM have people forgotten already why GB invaded? Top 10 reasons that George W. Bush invaded Iraq. 10 - Because Saddam was personally responsible for 9/11; I mean because the US was under imminent threat of attack from Iraq; I mean, Saddam had weapons of mass distraction, I mean destruction programs, that he was selling to the Al-Qaeda and Taliban. Oh, wait a minute, now it's coming to me. Because we wanted to liberate the Iraqi people against a ruthless and mean dictator. Yeah, that's it. Like we said all along, Bush just wanted to liberate the Iraqi people. 9 - What is our oil doing under their sand? 8 - Did we mention 9/11 yet? Not that there is any evidence connecting Saddam to 9/11 but we'll just keep mentioning it (but we won't talk about the oil). 7 - Just because you are a chicken hawk, doesn't mean you can't give out a serving of whoop ass (as long as you get others to do it for you). 6 - Bush thought, "What is the stupidest thing I can do to get the whole world's opinion against the United States?" 5 - His advisors thought it was a good way to get his mind off the red button. 4 - Because he heard that Osama Bin Laden was in Pakistan. 3 - It had absolutely nothing to do with oil. Repeat, absolutely nothing to do with oil. 2 - North Korea has the nuclear bomb and everybody knew that Iraq didn't. And the #1 reason Bush Jr. invaded Iraq - Cheney made him do it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 08:06 AM Published on Thursday, January 30, 2003 by the Independent (Cape Town, South Africa) All Bush Wants is Iraqi Oil, Says Mandela Former president Nelson Mandela said on Thursday the United States was preparing to go to war because "George Bush wants to get hold of the Iraqi oil". Former South African President Nelson Mandela lashed out at President George Bush's stance on Iraq January 30, 2003, saying the Texan had no foresight and could not think properly. "All Bush wants is Iraqi oil, because Iraq produces 64 percent of oil and he wants to get hold of it. "Bush is acting outside the United Nations and both he and (British Prime Minister) Tony Blair are undermining the United Nations, an organisation which was an idea sponsored by their predecessors." Mandela also questioned whether the US was ignoring the UN because its secretary-general is black. "Because they (America) are so arrogant, they killed innocent people in Japan during Hiroshima and Nagasaki," he said referring to the two atom bombs the US dropped on Japanese cities to end the Second World War. 'One power with a president who can't think properly, ... wants to plant the world into holocaust' The elderly statesman said he was pleased that the people of the world, including Americans, were opposing the US government. "He (Bush) is making the greatest mistake of his life by trying to cause carnage. Copyright 2003 Independent Online |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 06 Jul 05 - 08:12 AM I didn't read all the posts; sorry if I am repeating. As I have asked on a number of threads, didn't Saddam tried to assassinate Garge's old man? It's personal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 08:15 AM Texas Oil Companies Bought Iraqi Oil N. Y. Times. Published October 9, 2004. By Judith Miller and Eric Lipton (Begin excerpt.) Major American oil companies and a Texas oil investor were among those who received lucrative vouchers that enabled them to buy Iraqi oil under the United Nations oil-for-food program, according to a report prepared by the chief arms inspector for the Central Intelligence Agency. The 918-page report says that four American oil companies - Chevron, Mobil, Texaco and Bay Oil - and three individuals including Oscar S. Wyatt Jr. of Houston were given vouchers and got 111 million barrels of oil between them from 1996 to 2003. The vouchers allowed them to profit by selling the oil or the right to trade it. The other individuals, whose names appeared on a secret list maintained by the former Iraqi government, were Samir Vincent of Annandale, Va., and Shakir al-Khafaji of West Bloomfield, Mich., according to the report by the inspector, Charles A. Duelfer. (End excerpt.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 08:18 AM Secret US Plans for Iraqi Oil |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 08:24 AM Oil companies at the heart of Iraq crisis. Before 9-11, US targeted Iraq oil by Neil Mackay President Bush's Cabinet agreed in April 2001 that ''Iraq remains a destabilising influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East'' and because this is an unacceptable risk to the US ''military intervention'' is necessary. Vice-president Dick Cheney, who chairs the White House Energy Policy Development Group, commissioned a report on ''energy security'' from the Baker Institute for Public Policy, a think-tank set up by James Baker, the former US secretary of state under George Bush Snr. The report, Strategic Energy Policy Challenges For The 21st Century, concludes: ''The United States remains a prisoner of its energy dilemma. Iraq remains a de-stabilising influence to the flow of oil to international markets from the Middle East. Saddam Hussein has also demonstrated a willingness to threaten to use the oil weapon and to use his own export programme to manipulate oil markets. Therefore the US should conduct an immediate policy review toward Iraq including military, energy, economic and political/ diplomatic assessments. ''The United States should then develop an integrated strategy with key allies in Europe and Asia, and with key countries in the Middle East, to restate goals with respect to Iraqi policy and to restore a cohesive coalition of key allies.'' Baker who delivered the recommendations to Cheney, the former chief executive of Texas oil firm Halliburton, was advised by Kenneth Lay, the disgraced former chief executive of Enron, the US energy giant which went bankrupt after carrying out massive accountancy fraud. The other advisers to Baker were: Luis Giusti, a Shell non-executive director; John Manzoni, regional president of BP and David O'Reilly, chief executive of ChevronTexaco. Another name linked to the document is Sheikh Saud Al Nasser Al Sabah, the former Kuwaiti oil minister and a fellow of the Baker Institute. President Bush also has strong connections to the US oil industry and once owned the oil company Spectrum 7. The Baker report highlights massive shortages in world oil supplies which now leave the US facing ''unprecedented energy price volatility'' and has led to recurring electricity black-outs in areas such as California. The report refers to the impact of fuel shortages on voters. It recommends a ''new and viable US energy policy central to America's domestic economy and to [the] nation's security and foreign policy''. Iraq, the report says, ''turns its taps on and off when it has felt such action was in its strategic interest to do so'', adding that there is a ''possibility that Saddam Hussein may remove Iraqi oil from the market for an extended period of time'' in order to damage prices. The report also says that Cheney should integrate energy and security to stop ''manipulations of markets by any state'', and suggests that Cheney's Energy Policy Group includes ''representation from the Department of Defence''. ''Unless the United States assumes a leadership role in the formation of new rules of the game,'' the report says, ''US firms, US consumers and the US government [will be left] in a weaker position.'' by Neil Mackay, award-winning journalist with The Sunday Herald, Glasgow, Scotland. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 06 Jul 05 - 08:25 AM SH, you are being a total weasel. You DID call Bobert a racist (and me since my post was also above yours), and when he stood up to you you backpedaled. If you saw a picture of my family, you'd be thoroughly embarassed at having called me a racist (and you would see that I have no reason to be jealus of anyone over anything). Your mindless cut&paste retread crap posts have damaged your credibility, your accusations against me (and Bobert and others) shredded it. Don't bother apologizing... that also would have zero credibility. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 06 Jul 05 - 09:57 AM To all those who believe I called them a racist: I gave you a choice between two options. Whatever option suits you the best is not my fault. It's what I read in your never-ending posts that tells me that it's got to be one of the two. Now if that's not the truth then explain yourselves. Please tell us what the real truth is. We're waiting..... Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Donuel Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:02 AM "Actually, he is a wonderful Christian who loves everyone the same, and actually is more tolerant than most people on this website. While he was extreme with the view of people on welfare he did not actually mean that he thought that all of them are on crack or tramps." |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:03 AM You define your own terms, Susu's hubby, within your own logic. But it has nothing to do with people here. When your comments descended to personal attacks, you lost the argument. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:10 AM freda, Please show me anywhere in this thread where I have personally attacked anyone. I have only shared my opinion based on what I see as yours or anybody else's opinion. If it's not true, then so be it. I will not back down from my opinions just as I see you will not back down from yours. I just ask for clarification on what you say. You can't have it both ways. It's just more of the same....talking out of both sides of your mouth. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:15 AM SH... none of us are waiting for you to explain yourself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:18 AM Your question is a classic logical fallacy: the False Dilemma. Here's another - answer me this Mr. Hubby - Do you 1) walk to school, or 2) carry your lunch? Well, which is it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:21 AM another one .. When did you stop beating your wife? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: John Hardly Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:32 AM Hey TIA, thanks for the link! That's a very useful website. I betcha that if everyone was forced to go there first to logic-check the post they are about to submit, mudcat would have about a zillion fewer posts!! *BG* |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,Larry K Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:35 AM All this talk about oil is just really silly. Oil was discovered in Pennsylvania in 1859. From 1859 to 1960 the USA was the largest producer of oil in the world. We have currently used about 1 trillion barrels. According to most experts we have 1 trillion barrels left. We currently use 30 billion barrels of oil a year. Do the math- that gives us 33 years. But its worse than that. Due to India and China oil usage is increasing by 1 billion barrels a year. Therefore we have less time. 70% of all the oil in the USA is gone. All the major discoveries in the USA were in the 1930's. The Gulf of Mexico and Alaska are relatively small (good finds but still small) There are 4,500,000 oil wells in the world with about 3,500,000 in the USA. There are no major discoveries to be made. The only possibilities are Iran or Iraq where politics has not less us explore. Lets assume we are completely wrong and there are 2 trillion barrels left. That only buys us another 11 years. Meanwhile they are spending 10's of billions of dollars in the tar flats in Calgary to get oil. Would the experts be spending that amount of money if there were other oil finds that were easy to get? The point is that oil is running out in our lifetime. Debating how to buy us another few years from Iraq oil is really silly. Anyone making that argument clearly does not understand the facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 06 Jul 05 - 10:59 AM Food for thought, Larry. I once wrote a policy paper on the Social Discount Rate which, in part, postulated by way of analogy that western governments and oil companies should spend their money on oil exploration and research, develop reserves, but only bring enough of it to market to pay for these activities... until we use up every drop of "their" oil. Simple aritmetics, really, but the catch is that we have to have lots of bullets when we say we are not going to compensate "them" for all the $'s they invested in our economy when their oil runs out. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 06 Jul 05 - 12:22 PM Larry K is absolutely correct. The scary part is that our government "of the oil people, for the oil people, and by the oil people" is desperately clinging to their doomed hydrocarbon underpinnings of our economy. Would we really be in Iraq if it had no oil? We are conspicuously NOT in Sudan, Burma, North Korea... Would we need to be in Iraq if we spent the $4 billion a month on switching to alternative energy sources? Would we need to be in Saudi Arabia if we did this? Anyone remember why Al Quaeda was first formed? Yup, it was because Islamic fundamentalists were incensed that there were infidel soldiers on holy land so close to Mecca (who were there largely to protect our oil interests!). It is ALL about oil. Or rather, it is all about energy, and oil happens to be the current drug of choice for us (or is it US?) energy junkies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Amos Date: 06 Jul 05 - 12:28 PM There is plenty of evidence that oil had something to do with the Iraq invasion. For one thing, the French had a lock on a lot of Iraq oil contracts, greatly displeasing the oil shaws of America. For another, Saddam was fooling around with his outflow as the political whim took him, which irritated the hell out of those responsible for continuing the Great American Burn. Lacking the imagination to see a real path to energy independence, the Bush assholes thought spending ten billion dollars on an invasion was a peachy keen alternative. Had they used the money to develop and field infrastructure for energy independence they could have kissed Saddam and his oil goodby without so much as a frisson. But they don't think in terms of efficiency, or optimum futures; they think in terms of violent overwhelm, because that's the kind of folks they are. Force, manipulation, falsification of facts, overwhelm, political subterfuge, PR capers divorced from truth, and string pulling are their daily bread. They are, IMHO, scumbags. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 06 Jul 05 - 12:33 PM Amos.... I'd just add to that, it's not just the oil in Iraq... there's lots of others with oil and, like my old man told me, "If there's more than one of 'em, take on the biggest one first." |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 06 Jul 05 - 12:38 PM It's not really about oil, Larry K. It's about money. Some people see a lot of unharvested money under the ground in other people's countries, and they want it. That, combined with the fact that they have, in their pockets, all the right people to make that happen (at the expense of the taxpayers in countries like the US and the UK, and at the expense of the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians in numerous countries), is the actual root of the problem. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 06 Jul 05 - 08:55 PM LOL I read the Houston Chronicle article, beardedbruce. It confirms what I already knew... no matter what happens, it's Bush cronies like Haliburton who are going to be the only winners in this "war". Everybody else... the US taxpayers and the people of Iraq, are taking it up the ass so Bush and his cronies can make a lot of money. Killing people for money. That's just wrong, no matter how you spin it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dianavan Date: 07 Jul 05 - 03:08 AM From Sgrena's newspaper in Italy, "The Haliburton Reconstruction hearings not only prove that the Bush administration was going to attack Iraq without cause but also show that Cheney and Bush had already set up KBR, a company that Cheney still has a salary contract with until 2007 and stock options until 2009 (All a matter of public record) to attend closed door meetings over the objections of Mrs. Greenhouse who at the time was the Chief Contracting Officer of The Army Corps. of Engineers. In those meetings specific budget and logistics information that would clearly give Haliburton KBR an inside track to billions of dollars worth of contracts was illegally attended by managers of KBR and representatives working under Cheney. The fact that Haliburton KBR did the front end study for the Pentagon should have excluded them from obtaining any contracts because of obvious conflicts of interests. Mrs. Greenhouse states, "The contracts awarded to Haliburton KBR represents the most blatant and improper contract abuse I've ever seen in the course of my professional career." Rory Mayberry a former KBR food production manager testify that KBR has overcharged the tax payers of this country billions of dollars. They have charged for meals not prepared,served spoiled , outdated meals and thrown away food so that the could pad the bill. Lloyd Owen International representatives testified that KBR charges the American people $1.30 per gallon of gas transported in Iraq from Kuwait. Llloyd Owen International which does the identical work in Iraq charges $.18 per gallon. They also testified that KBR has not delivered any fuel to rebuild Iraqs infrastucture or delivered any parts other than scrap to rebuild Iraqs oil refineries even though they were paid billions to do so. The U.S. fighting forces families had to buy them Kevlar vests and they had to scrounge in junk yards to shore up their humvees now we find out they were served spoiled food and food that had bullets and shrapnel removed from blown up trucks. They knew they would attack Iraq and they knew they would profit. Its not all about oil. Its about making money by bringing about the misery of war and bilking the national coffers while pretending to reconstruct. Its about buying and selling weapons and all the equipment necessary to run a war." Its all about GREED. ...and today, "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. military has signed on Halliburton (HAL.N: Quote, Profile, Research) to do nearly $5 billion in new work in Iraq under a giant logistics contract that has so far earned the Texas-based firm $9.1 billion, the Army said on Wednesday. You are absolutely right, Carol - Cheney, Bush and their war profiteers are making millions. ...and they have all those people believing it has something to do with Christianity and Democracy and the privilege to drive a SUV. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:51 AM Well, first of all, a big thankee fir the link demonstartin' clearly the illogic of Hubby's feeble attempt's to cover his butt, which in MO, is no longer coverable... But on a more seriouis side, Larry K makes some very valid points about oil and consumption which, again in MO, have been absolutely neglected by oilman Bush and oilman Cheney and that has to do with a real "Energy Policy" toher than "get mo oil!!!"....???? Yeah, heck if I know why we're in Iraq but none of the given reason add up so until I hear something plausable I'll just suspect that oil has a lot to do with it... But back to the Bush/Cheney Energy Policy... What is it??? Can anyone tell me one feature of the policy??? Just one... No, don't go Googlin' then cut and paste... Can anyone tell me, off the top of their head, one feature of the Bush/Cheney so-called energy policy??? The only thing I can remember about it is that at the time it, what=ever-it-is, was developed it was done in secret and the accounts that were made public said that a number (I believe it was like 52) oilmen were involved and no one else??? Of course, we may never know because Bush and Cheney don't think its any of our danged business and are using Executive Priveledge (maybe Executive Order) to prevent the American people from knowing just how the country, at a time of dwindlin' oil reserves, has a policy that is geared toward maximum consumption rather than conservation... Well, Carpe Diem is fine but thwe hangovers ain't an' we're gonna pay fir this little binge... Like look in any car magazine and you'll see what I mean... There are more 500 horsepower cars on the market now than during the heighth of the muscle cars days... And they ain't 500 horsepower solar cars either.... No, they are gas guzzlers... Anmd look at the oilmen Bush/Cheney regime is about to do to the railroads... Cut, cut, cut...???? Like what's this about... A real energy policy would be pumping resources into rail transporation, or monorails, 'er, 'er... Historians will not be kind to these crooks and one day even Hubby will have to admit that the party wasn't worth it... But fir today? Eat, drink and be merry... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:27 AM Well, Let's see. Four bombs in London. Possibly hundreds killed. Who takes responsibility? An offshoot of Al Qaida Why did they do it? British cooperation in Iraq and Afghanistan. What type of attack? Disruptive Numerous bombs in Madrid. Many killed and injured. Who took responsibility? Again, Al Qaida Why did they do it? Spain's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan What type of attack? Disruptive Threats are now being made towards Denmark and Italy for their continued cooperation in operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Neither one of these countries (Iraq or Afghanistan)are being ruled by anybody in Al Qaida. But yet, all we hear is how we need to pull our troops out. Al Qaida is a thug organization with no power other than the terror that they spread by cowardly attacks. We went to them in Afghanistan and they came to us in Iraq. But yet, we still need to bring our troops home? You people are shameless. Not only do you not care about the people that we are fighting for but it seems as if you care more about the people that we are fighting against. It doesn't matter to me how much credibility that you think I have. I could care less about what is thought about me. But if what I am saying is making a difference to at least one of you, then my point has been made. Sadly, in a place such as this, some people are afraid to say what they really feel because of the lashing that they are sure to recieve for not falling into the "status quo". It's really sad. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:44 AM What, have you now uncovered evidence that the lass reactionary here in Mudville have Al Quida connections... More Hubby illogic, folks... He can't pin racism on us so now its Hubby's Plan B: Terrorist sympathizers... But he'll come back and say he didn't exactly say that byut the message come thru loud and clear... What next??? Accusin' us of the kidnappin' of the Linberg baby??? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Amos Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:47 AM Hubby: "You people are shameless". Spoken like a true brainless SOB. I don't know who you think "you people" are, but waving these bitter generalized accusations around is self-serving and short of thought. I'd appreciate it if you could learn to make clear statements about issues and lay off the arm-waving self-important bullshit. I think you will find if you stop and think about it that only one or two people on this site have voiced the opinion that we should pull out of Iraq. A far larger number have asserted that going there in the first place was a bad idea. Possibly if you weren't so crazed for blood yourself, you would notice these small distinctions. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: polaitaly Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:49 AM Hubby, I don't understand...After September 11 , the US went to Afganistan but the bombings in Bali and in many other countries happened the same; then, the US went to Irak but the bombing in Madrid, and now in London went ahead the same; so, apart from killing many thousand Iraqui and almost two thousand American, can you please explain to me what the US have achieved in preventing acts of terrorism, with those two wars? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:52 AM Susu's Hubby - No one here supports Al Qaeda. You continue to make attacks on people here - when at the time, we are sending our concern and prayers to the catters in London, you are spraying bitterness and nasty accusations like a wild cat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:56 AM SH - come and have a cup of tea, at a time like this, we shouldnt be ripping into each other. I take back my angry words - you and Susu can come over any time and play some music - we can relax in my lovely back garden. as mooh says, peace. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 07 Jul 05 - 10:04 AM We (the US) created Al Qaida, Hubster, and as you yourself have noted, their activities are a direct response to US and British (and a the coalition of the coerced) meddling in the affairs of other people's countries. Time to wake up and smell the coffee. Al Qaida won't go away (in fact, they will continue to grow bigger and stronger) until we stop stealing other people's stuff and destroying their countries (and killing massive numbers of their civilians). |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dianavan Date: 07 Jul 05 - 12:58 PM When its your friends and neighbors that are dead and injured, it makes you realize how the Iraqis must feel. Combine the numbers of those killed by terrorist attacks to the number of Iraqi civilians who have died because of Bush/Blair lies and aggression. If you want to blame someone, blame those that have invaded the Middle East. There is nothing righteous about war. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Leadfingers Date: 07 Jul 05 - 12:58 PM Have I got one ?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Leadfingers Date: 07 Jul 05 - 12:59 PM Damn !! No I Didnt !! dianavan did without even noticing !! |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dick greenhaus Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:07 PM REgardless of whose fault it is--and I firmly believe there's enough blame to go around--the question remains: Can we stop terrorism with the invasion/occupation/nation-building tactics we're employing? When the only tool you know how to use is a hammer, all problems look like nails. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: dianavan Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:34 PM Thats the second one I got. You're right, I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't mentioned it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Amos Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:36 PM And if a problem is NOT a nail, but you treat it as though it were one, the problem will persist, grow, return and continue until its actual nature is understood. This is often accomplished through the peculiar human capability for communication. And, just as often, not. Sigh... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,Jon Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:38 PM Can we stop terrorism with the invasion/occupation/nation-building tactics we're employing? No Dick but you can create more terrorists that way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 07 Jul 05 - 02:54 PM No Dick but you can create more terrorists that way. We can, and we have. On the other hand, and this is where I'm conflicted, we can't just abandon them to the chaos that we've created there, either. That's what we did in Afghanistan after we were finished using the Mujahideen as our proxy fighters there against the USSR, and that, to a very large extent, is what created the environment that fostered the birth of the Taliban and Al Qaida. We can't really be trusted to do the job right... we're way too greedy and power mad for that. But if someone could take on the job and do it effectively and with no secondary and/or hidden agendas, there could be some hope for the Iraqis. And for us, as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 07 Jul 05 - 03:32 PM SH's latest post is a great example of the Straw Man fallacy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Ebbie Date: 07 Jul 05 - 03:54 PM Even Afghanistan, CarolC, is far from 'over'. "Anyone who thinks the Afghan war has been won and is over needs to think again. 54 American soldiers have been killed in Afghanistan in the last six months alone, compared to 52 in all of last year. While this number does not compare to the 1,748 US troops killed in Iraq, the two-fold increase in casualties over half a year is noteworthy. Interesting Times |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,Chuck aka Garageman Date: 07 Jul 05 - 04:23 PM I have never posted here, actually only glanced at Blues L a couple times. This my third time and probably the most important, for me, thread I have ever seen on the Internet. I have read and reread to be sure I caught the flow and the actuak intent. Apparently many are missing it or are just to biased to consider both sides. To Susu's Hubby, you owe no one an apology. Your commentary was subtle and if anyone took offense, it was soley a case of "if the shoe fits, wear it". Ah yes, the truth can be painful and often provokes a very defensive retort. Thank you, Hubby, for allowing me to see the futility of my ways involving another message board. I wish you luck on your crusade with facts and a polite delivery. Just remember than some would rather have feelings (thiers) rather than any facts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 07 Jul 05 - 04:26 PM Exactly, Ebbie. But maybe none of that (9/11 and subsequent invasion and occupation of Afghanistan) would have happened had we made sure that the Afghan civil and material infrastructure and civil society had a strong foundation before withdrawing our help, instead of just abandoning them to the utter chaos that was all that was left of Afghanistan by the time the cold war ended (and we no longer needed the Afghans to do our fighting for us). On the other hand, I tend to suspect that invading Afghanistan and planting a bunch of permanent military bases where the oil pipeline is supposed to go was the real plan all along, 9/11 or no 9/11, Taliban or no Taliban. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Ebbie Date: 07 Jul 05 - 04:58 PM I fully agree. I just thought of an analogy- If this were the midst of the feudal age (instead of the 'futile age' (!) our governments would be doing what they want with impunity and without concern or regard for their serfs and peasants. Even though the serfs and peasants were always the ones who bore the brunt and costs of the feudal lords' disagreements and power struggles. Is this what we have gone back to, with the difference being the lip service tossed in the direction of a farce of a democracy and republic? How soon before the lip service is deemed unnecessary? OK, I grant you. The analogy fails. But I do believe that the 'people' might again become invisible and voiceless. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 07 Jul 05 - 05:43 PM Chuckles... or whoever you really are... fuck off. Noone believes your childish bullshit. Not even you, SB. BTW, this post is the only response you will get here... we don't feed trolls. Do yourself a favour and go somewhere else. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 07 Jul 05 - 05:53 PM Gnu, You're probably right about GUEST, Chuck aka Garageman. We've already got enough "troublemakers" spreading TRUTH in here and ruining your little bubble. Why in the world would you want one more? Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,chuck aka Garageman Date: 07 Jul 05 - 06:35 PM Nice talk, gnu! I had not intended to come back in here, probably due to the likes of you. I was serious, really serious, about my post. Thanks again, Susu's Hubby. And I hope gnu means what he says, "this is the only response you will get here". Who needs anymore of his third world verbage. ...........and, gnu, you are obviously another example of "if the show fits" Looks like the shoe is a little tight too. I read "ouch' in your post, gnu. ('gnu' "with a head resembling that of an ox" which is always castrated.) ALL FACTS, NO FEELINGS. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:00 PM I LIED!!! Hehehehehe! All facts. No feelings. I agree. Completely your opposite. Apparently, neither of you genius' got that post... because you are the same person. Your posts confirm my suspicion. Illogical and resorting to name-calling. Pretty pathetic and childish. Castrated? Lick my balls. At least I have some. Ah, well, my work here is done. On, Wildebeeste... exposing trolls and shit-for-brains on the threads of life... work never ends. Oh yeah... Susu's bitch... your mother would want you to apologize. Or at least try to play nice, or you might get ignored... and YOU wouldn't want THAT, would you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:42 PM "Apparently, neither of you genius' got that post... " Apparently, you're not a genius considering the fact that you think that we are the same person. In fact, you just pretty much proved how much of an idiot you truly are. (Now THAT was a personal attack!) Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:50 PM Well, Chuckie, nice to see you here... Too bad you have shacked up wityh the likes of Hubby who has noe problem trying to pin such labels as "racist" or "terrorist sympathizer" on anyone who does not agree with him... I thought you were a little more tolerant than that and am very disappointed... It'sd one thing to make yer case but quite another5 to go branding folks as racists if they don't agree with you... You obviously didn't read this entire thread.... And, YES, Hubby owes a lot of folks here a BIG APOLOGY for isinuating that folks who are question the Bush administartions motives for attacking Iraq are "racist" (or jealous, like ahahahah... 'cept it ain't funny...) You picked the wrong guy to allie yourself with... Go read some opf Doug R's posts.... He, like you, is a Bush supporter but he is not a sociopath... Like I siad, my friend, you picked the wrongest of the wrong to cuddle up to... Trust me... I've been 'round this joint a long time and Hubby is bad news fir you'.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:54 PM at least Bobert sees that were not the same person.... Thanks, Bobert. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Amos Date: 07 Jul 05 - 07:59 PM SH: What -- you been staying up late with Martin Asshole Gibson or somp'n? You and Chukie have a True Believer thing going on big time; if you don't recognize the syndrome, read Eric Hoffer's book by that name. Having locked yourself into a somewhat madcap, bloodthirsty and unwavering belief in the cult you two share, you are kinda impervious to the ordinary suasions of communication, dialogue, and the like. Fanaticism like yours is not informative, interesting or helpful to anyone except your fellow cult members. It's downright boring. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Susu's Hubby Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:16 PM Well it keeps bringing you back to offer your two cents worth now doesn't it, Amos? Thanks for your input. It was very valuable. Hubby |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: John Hardly Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:21 PM Oh! Now that's a different way of looking at it! Hmmm. But wouldn't, kind sir, that lead one to conclude the contrary? Quite, quite! Ha! I must laugh a bit at myself, for, as you've pointed out, it seems I misspoke! In my zeal to appear a wit (an aspiration that I fear a bit too far reaching!) I "left the potato and brought but the skin" so-to-speak. Oh no, no! I certainly didn't mean to imply anything more than that I disagreed with your premise. I find you to be charming and every bit the very model of wit. Oh, you flatter me, sir! I suppose this would lead us to conclude that, at best, we "agree to disagree", eh? Indeed. Have a lovely evening! And you as well, sir! |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:22 PM I will, at least fir now, say that I know Chuckie personally and, like I said, I don't think he really read the thread in its entirity, or the Chuckie I know wouldn't have been so quick to come to Hubby's defense.... In real like he a lot closer to DougR than to Hubby... I mean, ahhhh, the Chuckie I know would resort to such juvinilistic debating tactics as the Hubster is well know for which usually insinuate labels on folks with whom do not agree with him or his hero, Bush... But, hey, I might be wrong... But I don't think so.... Like how can someone like Chuckie be so into the blues, which is black folk music, one one hand and be willing to play the "race card" with somweone with whom he does not agree.... Seems kinda like, ahhhh, hey, what's this all about??? Ahhhhhh, like I said, Bush ordered up a war that is being disporportionatly fought by folks of color against other folks of color... And dispute there??? Now just how do I become a "racist" for questioning the reasoning/ rationale for starting the war in first place... Maybe, Chuckie, you like to weigh in on how this makes me a "racist"??? 'Or maybe why you think it's perfectly okay fir Hubby to insinuate that I am a "racist" fir holding these beliefs??? Yeah, I am awaitin' yer answer to this one... And don't side-step the issue like Hubby has tried to do... This ain't a rocket science question here... What exactly makes me a "racist"???? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,Garageman Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:24 PM 1. I have not been around here a long time. Maybe that is your problem. 2. I did read the entire thread, several times. Once again, you are making assumptions to try to reinforce your position. I see that a lot from you. 3. I did not see where 'Hubby' insinuated anyone was racist. It is back to the "if the shoe fits,". 4, gnu has such a way with words. (not!) 5. Amos, you are correct about one thing - this is boring! 'Hubby', you are on your own, and as long as the odds stay where they appear to be, you will have no problem. Pouring "water down a rathole", however, is not my idea of entertainment. But maybe, just maybe, you can make someone see the light. Bear in mind you are not dealing with a group of Rhoades Scholars. My last appearence in Mudhole. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Alba Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:27 PM Sounds like a plan. Bye |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,meet anf greet Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:30 PM Garageman would you take Hubble the Bubble head with you. You'de be doing this place a hellava service. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Amos Date: 07 Jul 05 - 08:39 PM To clear the semantic fog of asininity being flung out hereabouts, here is what SH itself said: "By your continued crying, you're really only saying one of two things. 1. We're not happy because of the fact that GWB is the one leading the way of freedom that is being offered to a once-suppressed people and providing the freedom that is everybody's human right. - or - 2. We're only saying that we want eqality for all because it sounds good. Actually, we really mean that only those that think "progressives" can do it better should be the only ones that really deserve it. So...which is it? Are you jealous or just out and out racist?" Neither of SH's propositions are tenable or rational, and both are based on his own kind of short-sighted bias. But, in his challenging, antagonistic manner, he required his identified target group -- those protesting Bush, or the war, or both -- as being either jealous of Bush or racist. Since Bobert is not jealous of Bush, whom he despises, it is clear that the only interpretation that can be made is "IF Bobert protests (the war or Bush or both) THEN Bobert is a racist". This having been established, the only "shoe" that one need claim a fit for in this equation is (not being jealous of Bush) AND (protesting Bush's actions or his war), which millions of people in this country do most vehemently. SH itself has referred to this whole class, including Bobert, as racist by his text. Work out the propositional Boolean equations for yourself. I suggest you withdraw your remarks, SH, or else admit to a problem with logic, semantics, or other reasoning powers. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:14 PM Ahhh... the crux of the biscuit... SH said... "Well it keeps bringing you back to offer your two cents worth now doesn't it,...". Troll. I know, I know. But, it's just so easy when they hang themselves. Please forgive me. I just can't help fighting evil. I must be one a them Stupid Heroes. Like Baitman, battling shitflies to fish the stream of life.... oh-oh... time for Oggies. But, even when I am half in the bag, I just want to say JAYSUS... oops, sorry M. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:20 PM And return or not, Chuickie.... What Amos just said... He passed Algebra in high school the first time around... Me/ Summer school and a C-.... Hey, it's passin'... And thankee, Amos, for bringing such clarity to Hubby's post, which he has tried to rationalize even since his little pea-brain, juvilinistic self posted that load of crap... And, back to you, Chuckie... If yer outtta haere, that's prolly real good... There are lots of cool folks to play with 'round here without buddyin' up to Hubby who is very much a misfit... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: CarolC Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:23 PM Rhodes Scholar, Chuck. And I see you're not one, either. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: gnu Date: 07 Jul 05 - 09:40 PM More like a skidmark. Okay... Oggies fer sure. gnightgnu |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,Garageman Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:31 AM Touch'e, CarolC - and a Freudian slip on my part although my talent on the keyboard leaves much to be desired. Some would include other areas of expertise as well. But, I digress - I came back here this AM to offer an explanation of sorts although I am sure you do not need any form of apology from the likes of me. The point should be made that I did not intend to be all inclusive with regard to my "Rhodes Scholar" comment. (of which I am not) I found the posts of you and Ebbie to be welcomed reading. The type that make for a good message board. So there! Well, that is off my chest and I shall retreat for the final time. Civil discourse is great. Assaulting the intellect of another for their personal thoughts is not. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: GUEST,TIA Date: 08 Jul 05 - 07:55 AM No, a Freudian slip is not a simple typo. It is a mistake that is thought to reveal something from the subconscious. It is when you mean to say one thing, but out comes your mother...another. |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: Bobert Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:38 AM Well, well, well... Folks, I'd like you to meet the rational and sober Chuckie... He's real lovable when he's like that but, ummmmm, the boy has been knowed to sit and watch full beer cans magicly empty themselves right betorwe his very own eyes... Hwe's not too sure how this happens but believe you me, I've witnessed it an it's purdy amazing... Well, after this little trick has been performed for a couple of hours Chuckie finds himself exhausted and in this state of exhaustion his typin', spellin' and intellectualizin' skills go way down.... Then he goes to sleep with his little sleep machine that plugs into the wall and I don't know if it's the machine, the sleep or a combination of the two and, waalaa, he awakens with a new and improved outlook on life.... Good to see you here, Chuckie... I'm sure youi can handle yerself quite nicely if you'll either confine yer postin' to sunshine hours or you spend a littlwe time with my buddy, DougR, who like you is a knothead but a very respectfull knothead and keep the heck away from Hubby, who's just a knothead (sans the respectfull)... Yer Bud, Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: In Its Last Throes (Political) From: freda underhill Date: 05 Aug 06 - 11:05 PM Both American and Iraqi troops in Iraq think that an Iraqi civil war has begun. So much for rescuing the people from Saddam, discovering WMDs, helping the people to achieve democracy.. |
