BS: Palin VP McCain choice

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:15 AM

Please show me where I have pointed any fingers in this thread on the subject of teen pregnancies.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 11:05 AM

If Palin won 'Miss Congeniality'

Imagine what the rest were like ;<\


It is typical for the VP candidate to be the attack dog but
so far she is still merely repeating excerpts of GWB's speech writer.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:54 AM

I am all for fighting back in the face of absurdity for a change... HOWEVER

The Rove strategy is always to attack the strengths of the opponent and where ever possible make opponent supporters angry.

Whenever possible I try to interject satire to lighen things up
but I suggest the best strategy in the midst of wild and stupid accusations,
is to use a surprised tone with an understanding smile.
(the way we do with kids who are upset)

If you feed the angry Rove dog, it will bite.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:53 AM

'Most women??" No, it wasn't. We also discussed teen abortions, birth control etc. vs morality. You are changing your tune, and pointing fingers! However we need not drag up that heated discussion again on this thread. Needless to say, 'people' should adopt a position on this matter and stick to it, not use it 'as needed' to find fault at one person, while justifying it to another!!! At least Palin stuck to her beliefs, about abortion, even when it may have been in her political interest not to. Sorry about her daughter, but as you pointed out, in the other thread, teenagers are going to do what they are going to do, and trying to control them was either wrong, or useless.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:40 AM

The assumption made on the other thread was that most women who rely on birth control are immoral and irresponsible. That is a specious argument, and has nothing whatever to do with the subject of teen pregnancies.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:37 AM

Pointing out that comprehensive sex ed is a better way to prevent teen pregnancies than abstinence-based sex ed is not in any way a smear. And since the discussion on the other thread was brought up, my stance on this thread in regards to birth control is exactly the same as my stance on that other thread was. Which is that the way to take responsibility is to use birth control.

However, the question on the other thread wasn't whether or not a lot of teenagers are having irresponsible sex. The question was whether or not most women who use birth control are being responsible. And the answer is that they are.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 10:25 AM

Wow!...With all the articles posted about teen pregnancies, you'd think that the same people posting them shouldn't have argued, so vehemently,
with me, in regards to morals, and self control...but here they are, pointing fingers, and smearing someone, by taking the other side of their own argument!..What a bunch of hypocrites!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:51 AM

"A steady stream of hate propaganda shapes people's beliefs and their actions. It makes them bomb buses, crash planes into buildings, blow themselves up in markets, shoot people, ethnic cleanse, start wars... the problem is the hateful beliefs that motivate people to destroy others. "

Alice.



yes that is part of the truncated story, and why do they do that?

there is a shitload of money in the oppresion of others which will inspire yet more affirmation and/or dissent.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:28 AM

I don't know about you, but I am feeling increasingly suspicious that even FOX news, on rare occaisions, is becoming slightly skewed toward certain agendas.
They said that it is reasonable to ask questions about Sarah Palin's life and personal history.

ABSOLUTELY NOT. Its nobody's business but her own. She has a right to privacy like anyone else.


The attacks of the eastern liberal elitist MEDIA on Sarah B. Palin disgracefully shoot first and ask questions later.

It has been revealed that the central pillar and FOUNDATION of the snobby elite left wing media is the scurolous magazine called 'Us Weekly', which printed scathing lies about; a beloved mother, Govenor, Mayor, celebrity, muck raking, moose shooting, God fearing, faith based energy reformer, who is loved and known to us all as Sarah B. Palin.


Back off left wing media! Us Weekly subscriptions have been canceled and Christian soldiers are removing it from library shelves and stores.

After we take down US "Weakly" magazine, with God's will, we will deal with all of 'US Weekly's fringe organizations like the New York Times and Washington Post.


My name is Dawn Mauve Oralshoot
and I approve this message, Amen




for the Onion.
(who has never written me back... ever)
that alone is a hallmark of good taste and quality.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:17 AM

Whether or not Wooten was not a nice guy is irrelevant to the question of whether or not Palin abused her power. Especially if she committed an unlawful breach of confidential personnel and workers' compensation files.

And on the subject of the teen birth rate... if studies show that comprehensive sex education reduces teen pregnancies, and if teen pregnancies are already too numerous, and if it is shown that abstinence only sex education doesn't lower the teen birth rate at all, then it would be pretty stupid to give up on comprehensive sex education and replace it with abstinence only sex ed.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:12 AM

"to describe the actions..."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:08 AM

Number 6 is correct. I mentioned earlier that Wooten is no prize. Question still remains as to if she exerted improper influence to remove him, whether she punished somebody who refused to do so, and whether her alleged interference was due to Wooten's treatment of her sister. The investigation goes on.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 09:02 AM

Here's a bit more information about Palin's church. Since Obama has been raked over the coals for Rev. Wright's remarks, it seems obvious she should have to answer questions about the division between church and state.

WSJ 4 Sept 2008--quotes directly from the article

This is an article about Wasilla Assembly of God, the church Palen attended til 2002, when she joined another church which is evangelical and nondenominational.

First of all, it appears the earlier quote about Palen stating that the Iraq war is God's will is inaccurate:

Complete quote ( from a visit by Palen to her old church, on stage before a youth group, June 2008): "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right also for this country. (Pray) "that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure we're praying for; that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

Obviously this allows doubt that it may not be God's plan.

But as David Gushee, a Christian ethicist at Mercer University in Atlanta says he is troubled that a public official might presume that government action could be God's intent: "I would never think it is appropriate for describe the actions of the United States military or strategies of our commanders as a plan from God".

She needs to be asked to clarify her views on this.

The real problem is her church's views on the "end times"--a church she worshipped at for more than 20 years.   The "end times" of course are "the days preceding a world-ending cataclysm bringing Christian redemption and the second coming of Jesus."

Mr. Gushee notes in this article that Gov. Palin should explain her beliefs concerning the inevitability of a cataclysm and the end of time: "To me, it is highly relevant to someone who potentially has her hand on the nuclear button. If that is her worldview, I would want to know about that."

That's putting it modestly.

The pastor of Wasilla Assembly of God says GWB was put into office by God: "I believe criticisms come from hell. God has placed this man in authority...You criticize the authority, you're literally bringing in hell with the criticism."

I think she should be asked if this is her belief also.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:51 AM

In regards to Trooper Mike Wooten, he is 36 years old married 4 times, has many infractions against him as a Alaska State trooper ( I think drinking on the job is one), has been accused for tasering his young son, and uttering death threats against his father-in-law ... he certainly isn't Mr. Clean Machine policman.

In regards to teen pregnancies ... it's outta control in our western North American society ... much like you can educate the population all you want about the dangers of drugs and the number of addicts is still getting out of control.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:33 AM

Forgot the link...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23782717/

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:32 AM

Since she's running for office in the US, we can use research and statistics that pertain directly to US teens...


Comprehensive sex ed may cut teen birth rate

NEW YORK - Comprehensive sex education that includes discussion of birth control may help reduce teen pregnancies, while abstinence-only programs seem to fall short, the results of a U.S. survey suggest.

Using data from a 2002 national survey, researchers found that among more than 1,700 unmarried, heterosexual teens between 15 and 19 years old, those who'd received comprehensive sex ed in school were 60 percent less likely to have been pregnant or gotten someone pregnant than teens who'd had no formal sex education.

Meanwhile, there was no clear benefit from abstinence-only education in preventing pregnancy or delaying sexual intercourse, the researchers report in the Journal of Adolescent Health.

The study found that teens who'd been through abstinence-only programs were less likely than those who'd received no sex ed to have been pregnant. However, the difference was not significant in statistical terms, which means the finding could have been due to chance.

In addition, there was no evidence that comprehensive sex education increased the likelihood of teen sex or boosted rates of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) — a concern of people who oppose teaching birth control in schools.

While comprehensive sex ed did not clearly reduce the STD risk, there was a modest, but statistically insignificant reduced risk of engaging in sex. The abstinence-only approach had no effect on either factor, the researchers found.

"The bottom line is that there is strong evidence that comprehensive sex education is more effective than abstinence-only education at preventing teen pregnancies," said lead researcher Pamela K. Kohler, of the Center for AIDS and STD at the University of Washington in Seattle.

She told Reuters Health the study "also solidly debunks the myth that teens who learn about birth control are more likely to have sex."

Currently, the federal government champions the abstinence-only approach, giving around $170 million each year to states and community groups to teach kids to say no to sex. This funding precludes mention of birth control and condoms, unless it is to emphasize their failure rates.

Critics have long pointed out that studies have failed to show that abstinence-only education delays sex or lowers rates of teen pregnancy.

The current study is the first to compare the effects of comprehensive sex ed and abstinence-only education in a national survey, Kohler noted.

Of the teens in the study, two thirds said they had received comprehensive sex education, while about one quarter had had abstinence-only courses. Just under 10 percent said they'd received no formal sex education.

There is now a body of evidence showing that the comprehensive approach may cut the odds of teen pregnancy, without increasing the likelihood of teens having sex, according to Kohler.

However, she added, "there seems to be a gap between scientific evidence and policy change."

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 08:15 AM

Alaska trooper's union files an ethics complaint against Palin
Investigation sought into possible breach of confidential files


ANCHORAGE, Alaska - The union representing state Trooper Mike Wooten has filed an ethics complaint against Gov. Sarah Palin and members of her administration charging a possible unlawful breach of Wooten's confidential personnel and workers' compensation files.

It's the latest twist in what has become the subject of global media scrutiny -- whether Palin, the newly minted Republican vice presidential candidate, abused her powers as governor to try to drive her former brother-in-law out of the trooper ranks.

Palin and her family have accused Wooten, who was involved in a messy divorce with the governor's sister, of a variety of misdeeds such as threatening her family and drinking while driving his patrol car. Palin insists she didn't use the trooper's continued employment as an excuse to fire a member of her cabinet, Walt Monegan, who supervised the troopers as commissioner of public safety.

Interest in what has become known as "troopergate" is attracting huge attention because of Palin's rocketing political fortunes.

John Cyr, executive director of the Public Safety Employees Association, said Thursday a British media organization has offered Wooten $30,000 for an interview.

"Mike Wooten is not accepting those offers," Cyr said.

But Wooten did an interview Thursday for CNN television anchor Anderson Cooper for a story to air soon, and that's the only interview Wooten plans to do, Cyr said.

The union this week lodged an ethics complaint with the attorney general's office asking for an investigation into whether Palin or her aides tapped Wooten's confidential personnel and workers' compensation files and disclosed information in an effort to jeopardize Wooten's job.

The complaint focuses on Palin aide Frank Bailey, who in February called a trooper commander on a recorded phone line and said the governor and her husband, Todd, were wondering why Wooten was "still representing the department."

On the recording, Bailey makes reference to Wooten "lying on his application," and also possibly making a false workers' compensation claim.

The trooper commander, Lt. Rodney Dial, replied to Bailey: "Frank, where did you get that information from?" Dial added that such information "a lot of times is extremely confidential."

Bailey replied: "Well, I'm a little bit reluctant to say ... ."

Palin has said Bailey's phone call was wrong and that he wasn't directed to make it. She has suspended Bailey with pay.

Thomas Van Flein, an Anchorage attorney representing the governor, said Thursday he couldn't discuss or even acknowledge a new ethics complaint.

However, he provided two documents that were produced to support the governor's own request earlier this week for a state Personnel Board investigation into the Wooten affair.

The documents are depositions that Van Flein's law firm conducted with Bailey and with another state official, Mike Monagle, who supervises workers' comp cases. Both denied they improperly accessed Wooten's files at the behest of the governor's office.


http://news.bostonherald.com/news/2008/view.bg?articleid=1117219&srvc=2008campaign&position=13

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 07:53 AM

Thanks Emma B.

meself ... I should note that I live in Saint John ... right in the southend penninsula which is a unique community in Canada in that it is populated by the poorest (and believe me they are poor) and the most wealthiest in Saint John. I am very involved in community affairs here and I am quite aware about the blight of teenage pregnancies. I also can verify that all the sex education, awareness programs etc will not prevent it from happening.

With all the finger pointing going on here in the Mudcat, blogs, media etc regarding this BIG election I find it interesting with all the crap and spinning (and constant repetitive respinning) people are digging up on the candidates .... let's face the fact that any person who is elected to public office you will and can always dig up every mistake, every wrong policy they voted for, and every misquote.

Much like the Monday morning quaterbacks, the my team is better than your team, or betters still ... my God is better than your God because .....

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 06:28 AM

The internet is a wonderful place and many statements of 'fact' here can be confirmed or refuted from the official documents made available.
The Canadian Journal of Human Sexuality gives the teen pregnancy rates per thousand from the CANSIM database 1974-2003 here

In 1999 43 out of 1000 births in St John NB were to teens.
The source for this information is from the Caledon Istitute of Social Policy May 2005 which also identifies st John as one of Canada's poorest cities with a falling population and corresponding tax base and high concentrations of low-income residents in inner city neighbourhoods

In addition to the early sexualization of children, poverty and deprivation, poor educational achievement and low expectations have all been identified as key factors contributing to high rates of teenage pregnancy.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:50 AM

From: Michael Morris
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:05 AM

I feel like I've drifted into a dreamworld where John Waters gets to pick the VP. Oh, wait, I'm in the US - that explains it.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the two didn't try to get Hannah Montana to run with them, to get votes. They would have tried Britney,....but she has accomplished too much!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Goose Gander
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 03:05 AM

I feel like I've drifted into a dreamworld where John Waters gets to pick the VP. Oh, wait, I'm in the US - that explains it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: meself
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 01:55 AM

("saint John N.B. has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Canada" - hate to be annoying, but I'm always a little skeptical of these sorts of statements - any particular source?)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 06 Sep 08 - 01:01 AM

From the LA Times:

Selecting Sarah Palin, who was touted all summer by Rush Limbaugh, is no way to attract most women, including die-hard Clinton supporters. Palin shares nothing but a chromosome with Clinton. Her down-home, divisive and deceptive speech did nothing to cosmeticize a Republican convention that has more than twice as many male delegates as female, a presidential candidate who is owned and operated by the right wing and a platform that opposes pretty much everything Clinton's candidacy stood for -- and that Barack Obama's still does. To vote in protest for McCain/Palin would be like saying, "Somebody stole my shoes, so I'll amputate my legs."

This is not to beat up on Palin. I defend her right to be wrong, even on issues that matter most to me. I regret that people say she can't do the job because she has children in need of care, especially if they wouldn't say the same about a father. I get no pleasure from imagining her in the spotlight on national and foreign policy issues about which she has zero background, with one month to learn to compete with Sen. Joe Biden's 37 years' experience.

Palin has been honest about what she doesn't know. When asked last month about the vice presidency, she said, "I still can't answer that question until someone answers for me: What is it exactly that the VP does every day?" When asked about Iraq, she said, "I haven't really focused much on the war in Iraq."

She was elected governor largely because the incumbent was unpopular, and she's won over Alaskans mostly by using unprecedented oil wealth to give a $1,200 rebate to every resident. Now she is being praised by McCain's campaign as a tax cutter, despite the fact that Alaska has no state income or sales tax. Perhaps McCain has opposed affirmative action for so long that he doesn't know it's about inviting more people to meet standards, not lowering them. Or perhaps McCain is following the Bush administration habit, as in the Justice Department, of putting a job candidate's views on "God, guns and gays" ahead of competence. The difference is that McCain is filling a job one 72-year-old heartbeat away from the presidency.

So let's be clear: The culprit is John McCain. He may have chosen Palin out of change-envy, or a belief that women can't tell the difference between form and content, but the main motive was to please right-wing ideologues; the same ones who nixed anyone who is now or ever has been a supporter of reproductive freedom. If that were not the case, McCain could have chosen a woman who knows what a vice president does and who has thought about Iraq; someone like Texas Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison or Sen. Olympia Snowe of Maine. McCain could have taken a baby step away from right-wing patriarchs who determine his actions, right down to opposing the Violence Against Women Act.
...

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:36 PM

They go so far as to buy a false tooth plate to cover where the five year old has lost her teeth, in order to keep her "pretty smile." I cannot imagine being a grandmother or parent and condoning this!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 11:24 PM

Just watching the first nine minutes, Alice, and it is sick. Thanks for posting it.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Alice
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:48 PM

Sexualizing Childhood - great point
This reminds me of the American culture of beauty pageants, starting as young as infants. Yet another program will soon air on this subject, a follow up 12 years later to the girls documented in "Painted Babies".
click for Painted Babies part one youtube

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ron Davies
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:47 PM

Obama would take a "pro-active course that would make things worse". Since, of course, that remark is is not-- yet another-- smear, I'm sure the poster wouldn't mind giving us specific examples of how Obama's pro-active course would make things worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 10:35 PM

"Sexualized media and marketing can actively interfere with adolescents' healthy sexual development and promote risky behavior. "

Exactly !

Thanks Emma B

Catol B ... saint John N.B. has the highest teenage pregnancy rate in Canada .... extensive sex education in the schools and community centres is provided ... sex education including the responiblities of being a parent included in the program. These programs does not curb the high pregnancy rate here.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Emma B
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:30 PM

Carol, the UK (despite the fact that we are not 'disestablished') has a sex education programme in schools

'The guidance on sex and relationship education deals with families, puberty and physical changes, bullying, friendships and how to make "healthy" choices when it comes to sex and sexuality. Teachers are encouraged to use examples from magazines aimed at teenagers in the lessons to spark debate.

A spokeswoman said: "Using magazines and newspaper articles enables teachers to engage pupils in PSHE lessons in a relevant and exciting way to ensure that they have the information that they need to make informed choices throughout life." She added that suggestions children should look forward to later nights out and wearing make-up as they became teenagers was designed to highlight the positive aspects of adolescents'

from Guardian 'New sex education guidelines released' November 04 2005

'Nevertheless, Britain has the second highest teenage birth rate in the developed world, according to a report from the United Nations (2002)
The United States is the only country with a higher proportion of teenage mothers, with 52 per 1000 compared with 32/1000 in the United Kingdom. The lowest birth rates were found in Korea, Japan, Switzerland, the Netherlands, and Sweden, where less than 7 girls per 1000 gave birth.'

British Medical Journal

It's not a 'simple' issue but one that the tabloid press and posters here seem to want to regard in that way.

Maybe one factor is

Sexualizing Childhood

'Children today are inundated with media and marketing that use sex to sell products. Embedded in these sexualized images are harmful messages that equate personal value with sexual appeal and turn sex into a commodity. Movies, music, TV programs, video games, and even toys marketed to children are rife with degrading images that objectify and sexualize girls and woman. Boys are also affected when sex is commodified, presented in the context of harmful stereotypes, and intertwined with power and violence.

Sexualized media and marketing can actively interfere with adolescents' healthy sexual development and promote risky behavior. Today, even young children are internalizing sexualized images and appropriating sexualized behavior—long before they are able to understand what it means to be a sexual being.'

from Campaign for a Commercial Free Childhood

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Peace
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 08:03 PM

heric, you are one helluva writer and thinker. Loved the post.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:59 PM

This issue isn't whether or not the daughter and future son-in-law know how babies are made. The issue is that a lot of people their age aren't very well informed about how to prevent babies from being made. That's a big part of what sex education is for. A good sex ed program should also provide teens with hands-on opportunities to find out for themselves how much responsibility is involved in being a parent. There are some very good programs that teach these things that the people who advocate for "abstinence only" sex ed don't want teens to have access to.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:53 PM

DOugR, that's BS. Obama received ten million dollars in donation in the 24 hours right after Palin's speech!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 07:53 PM

GUEST,heric

Thanks for the assessment. It's my assessment also.

Interesting (speculative) reading. It did get me thinking (linking the dots on what occured behind the interconnected political scene) on the Palin choice It still seems to be a puzzle. Though silent, I it is difficult to believe that Bush/Cheney are not pulling powerful internal strings somewhere behind the scene to ensure their power base is not absent in the next admisteration. Powerful people and their allies don't normally just die and roll over.

But, in the end the site missed the mark on credibility by far.

No idea where it came from. Thought someone may know.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:36 PM

Bobert

Not complaining.
\

we can have the President who spends the most to get elected. At least as good as the one with the most votes, from your earlier comments (2004 election) about not letting thos "NASCAR hicks" vote (or any others that did not agree with YOUR opinions.)

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 06:23 PM

Sour grapes, bb... I didn't hear you crying when it was Bush who outspent Kerry and Gore...

If yer gonna stand on principle ya' gotta "call it both ways" (basketball term)...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:56 PM

Ed - I just read your dailykos article word for word, carefully. Such a tantalizing title and intro (Summary: Cheney picked Palin and forced her on McCain, as payback for helping him cover-up the dirty politics involved in trying to get that LNG pipeline built.) It goes on and on as if it might be going somewhere - and then it just STOPS. It sets up a good piece of speculation that her rise to the top was manipulated by Cheney for being a good lap dog, then ends as speculation.

Could have been a very good story there - but someone would have to actually write it, first.

If the DOJ asks a state's Attorney General to back off a corruption probe, should the A-G do so? The writer says no - but I wonder what the actual practice would be.

The writer says the A-G went to Pepperdine and is therefore right-wing. However, even if entrenched corruption wasn't a good enough reason for the State to let the Feds work independently and unfettered, maybe the A-G's office just didn't have the skills and resources to bring down entrenched corruption.

Thanks for the good read - but in the end I still think someone needs to write the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:31 PM

O has $10 mil in donations, and 5 mil from small donors
:50% from small donors, AND $5 million from those evil oil and drug and insurance industries

$5 million from small donors is what, 200,000 donors? vs $5 million from large, which is 5000 donors - 97.6% small donors!

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: DougR
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:29 PM

Recent reports I have heard indicate that the Obama campaign may be in financial trouble. He may regret that he did not take federal matching funds as he originally pledged to do (but what good is a pledge, right?)

I would suggest that all of you Obama supporters get out your check-books and write a check to his campaign. Put your money where your mouth is, so to speak. I have. (Oops don't want to mislead. My money has gone to McCain).

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:16 PM

"I'd much rather see an elected official "bought" by a couple of million individual contributors than one who was "bought" by the oil and drug and insurance industries. "

But "the oil and drug and insurance industries" ARE buying him, as well. LOOK at his contributions. A greater PERCENTAGE of contributions is from small donors-NOT a greater AMOUNT.

OEx:, ( not real figures, but examples of how the PERCENTAGE is used to change peceptions.
\
O has $10 mil in donations, and 5 mil from small donors
:50% from small donors, AND $5 million from those evil oil and drug and insurance industries

M has $5 mil in donations, and 1 mil from small donors
:20% from small donors, but $4 mill from the evil lobbiests

BOTH are bought and paid for, by those oil and drug and insurance industries. OR neither one is.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: DougR
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 05:13 PM

Bobert: Your post of September 4 at 12:57PM: I suppose were Obama to pick off a few Republican women voters as a result of his picking that handsome guy, Joe Biden, that would be okay though, right?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:57 PM

Anyone know who runs this site I just stumbled into today?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/4/34846/82364

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:34 PM

BB-
One might look at who's doing the buying. I'd much rather see an elected official "bought" by a couple of million individual contributors than one who was "bought" by the oil and drug and insurance industries.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM

>Obama's campaign funds were sent to him by people who believed he was an excellent candidate, entirely legitimately.<

The assumption supporting that statement is downright un-American.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:21 PM

"Obama's campaign funds were sent to him by poeple who believed he was an excellent candidate, entirely legitimately."


As were McCain's.

Both have a mix of individual and Corporate contributions. By the AMOUNT given, Obama has MORE funding from BOTH individuals AND from groups/corporations.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:17 PM

"Your sneering comment is so couched as to imply that Obama is "buying an election" while McCain is simply running an honest campaign. "

NOT what I said, Amos.

BOTH parties are trying to buy the election- The Dems have more money and have a larger base of people who look to benefit from their winning.




But what is this about Obama and the Federal funds? when it looked to his benifit, he was for taking them, when he thought he could get more otherwise, he changed his mind. A good stratagy, but not according to his stated principles.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Riginslinger
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 04:15 PM

"Obama's campaign funds were sent to him by poeple who believed he was an excellent candidate, entirely legitimately."



                     All of which goes to prove how easy it is to fool people.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:54 PM

Your sneering comment is so couched as to imply that Obama is "buying an election" while McCain is simply running an honest campaign. If that is your insinuation, it is both inaccurate and, IMHO, dishonorable. Obama's campaign funds were sent to him by poeple who believed he was an excellent candidate, entirely legitimately.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 03:46 PM

"Barack's expenditures are as far as we know within the normal parameters of a national campaign. "

and twice the amount that McCain is spending, and NOT limited by the federal matching.

Like I said, the best president money can buy.

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: Amos
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:59 PM

Your discoloration of running a campaign as "buying an election" is bitter and inacurrate. 2000 was a bought election. Barack's expenditures are as far as we know within the normal parameters of a national campaign.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Palin VP McCain choice
From: beardedbruce
Date: 05 Sep 08 - 02:45 PM

Bobert,

It is still money Obama is spending, which he has to get from donations. He IS spending more money than McCain.


Buying the election: Does it matter if he pays media or landlords???