'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Noreen
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 04:25 PM

Hi Ralphie, look forward to hearing "Flat Earth" - you whetted my appetite...!

BTW you can log out and log back in again as you, on someone else's computer- though that may be a little late now... :0)

N
xx
(one each!)

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 03:47 PM

Once again...and I feel a strong sense of deja-vu...we are not just talking about Nic Jones regardless of how many times "Guest" wishes to use the phrase 'Jones Jihad'!!

Colin Irwin, in the April 2000 edition of Froots, when reviewing the unexpected re-release of 'Dalesmans Litany' referred tothe "infamous lost generation of folk records gathering dust by a company seemingly for the sole purpose of gazing at their rather primitive sleeves" ( I rather like some of those sleeves but that's by the by ).

"Guest" made the point earlier that we've all been clamouring to get this material re-released and now it is we still aren't happy. We might be if, for once, things seemed to be done properly...not CD-R's slipping surreptitiously onto the market-place but the quality recording and markettong the "lost generation" deserve.

All the best.........Harry Basnett.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 02:08 PM

Well Ralphie, I don't rush to judgment quite as quickly as those of you with economic interests tied up with CM. And I guess therein lies the difference.

Producer of Nic Jones CD has an economic interest in squashing the CM releases. Now, I agree that putting out a CDR and claiming it is a CD is wrong. And I'm as much on the artists' side as the next guy when it comes to them being paid fairly for their creative output, as well as being in control of how it gets used, when and by whom. But I don't have as much sympathy for professional musicians in the latter case as I used to. There really is no reason NOT to have legal representation now, or even 30 years ago in the folk music business.

Finally, I do draw the line when it comes to undertaking a public spear campaign to discredit people and drive them out of business when there is no proof of legal wrongdoing, which is what I think the Jones Jihad campaign is trying to do to Celtic Music and Bulmer.

As I said, you and Nic Jones have a financial stake in this discussion. You have a financial incentive, and I think money has been at the top of the agenda for the two of you all along, not morality.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Derby Ram
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 01:44 PM

Bugger...
I let my anger get the better of me....and responded to a troll...Sorry Chaps, Will try not to do it again.
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Derby Ram
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 01:36 PM

Smear campaign..? Interesting concept.
Just stating the facts as I see them...CM own the rights to many many artists work. No Problem.They were brought, as I understand it, fairly and squarely from among others John Zollman of Highway Records along with other companies...see threads passim..No Problem..Releasing said CD's....No problem....Purporting them to be commercial CDs, when they are CD-Rs.(with a possibly short term shelf life)....Problem.
Not Being allied to MCPS, and therefore not fulfilling his requirement to recompense the artists concerned of their cut of the money....although not legally wrong, is IMO morally reprehensible...and is therefore a PROBLEM.!
Public enough for you ???
As for going public, my name is Ralph Jordan, producer of "Unearthed" by Nic Jones.
What's yours ?
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 01:09 PM

I have not one iota of interest in talking to you personally Ralphie. You have waged a very PUBLIC campaign, and I keep harping at you (not flaming, but criticizing--engaging in perfectly LEGITIMATE criticism of you) because you refuse to answer PUBLICLY what your purpose is for engaging in such a highly visible public smear campaign. Because that is what you and Pete Coe and a number of others are doing.

Answer the charges publicly Ralphie. Come clean. Prove me wrong in the same public forum you are engaging in this smear campaign, and then maybe I'll sit down and have a drink with you.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Derby Ram
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 12:54 PM

GUEST
Tell me who you are and I'll talk sensibly to you...Until you do, I'll try and keep my promise to myself, by not responding to Flamers.
I've offered my address to you many a time....No response.!!
Your Call
Ralphie
As I said before, I'm only temporarily on this name, as I'm away from my normal Machine at the mo....So, don't hold Derby Ram responsible for my postings...Ta

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 12:45 PM

I don't care if it is improved, anymore than you care if you are engaging in a campaign of censorship against a record company and the vendors who sell their products, Noreen. Jones Jihad (tm) is a mellifluous catch phrase, and that is why I use it. It'll catch on, you wait and see.

Ralphie--this week your tactic is the CDR. Last week, it was don't but the Celtic Music reissues, because CM is evil and Nic Jones won't get royalties, which apparently aren't due him because he sold the rights to his music. Before that, it was CM is evil because they won't release the music that we all deserve to hear.

Tactic after tactic of yours to try and get the court of public opinion to do what you can't get a court of law to do, which is shut the CM man down. But Ralphie, even if CM went out of business tomorrow, and Dave Bulmer were thrown in jail for the rest of his days (probably a light sentence in your twisted way of thinking), it wouldn't get the rights back for Nic Jones. It wouldn't get the masters back to Nic Jones.

So really, what is the point beyond your bitterness and begrudgery (not to mention the Jones Jihad'ers nauseating self-righteous indignation)? Answer: there is none.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Derby Ram
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 12:36 PM

Noreen...Hi...
"....and the Intimidators" Shurely!
Off subject for a mo....PJD "Flat Earth" is out now...
Definitely a Silver Disc....not Green or Blue!!
Love R xxx

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Noreen
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 12:30 PM

Hey, we should get together... Ayatollah Ralphie and the Intimidator :0)

I suppose the "unprecedented level of mass English folk hysteria " is improved by calling this a Jihad, Guest?

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Derby Ram
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 12:21 PM

One small correction...As far as I know, there never was a Martin Carthy / Paul Simon court case. I don't think MC ever made a complaint. and the whole thing was settled by "Gentlemans agreement"...A much nicer way to proceed IMHO.
Oh that this could be resolved in a similar fashion...Not much chance of that I suppose.
I fail to see by the way, how the selling of substandard CD-Rs as pukka CDs can be construed as "Misinformation"...I've seen them, and it's a FACT !!!
Yours
Ayatollah Ralphie

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 11:58 AM

Well, if Dave Bulmer is such a crook, and the Jones Jihad'ers feel they can "prove" his guilt in public opinion forums such as this, why is it that the man isn't either rotting in the clink, or has been driven out of business by court judgments against him?

At the end of the day, no one has brought a successful case against the man, have they? Please do correct me if I'm wrong. Considering the amount of heat his name generates in English folk circles, isn't it a bit odd that he has not once had a successful court case brought against him? After all, Martin Carthy won his against Paul Simon, so it isn't as if there isn't some legal precedence.

The reason I've been so cantakerous is because the Jones Jihad'ers are such masters of misinformations, and so very good at whipping up this (as far as I can tell) unprecedented level of mass English folk hysteria about this one case. Which is not anything more than a morality tale for musicians--hire a good entertainment solicitor before you sign away the rights to your work.

Hey--it ain't just Nic Jones who has fallen victim to the vagaries of the music business types. Paul McCartney doesn't own the rights to his Beatles' songs either.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Derby Ram
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 11:41 AM

IanC...Guest (Jihad)'s sarcasm has been ignored by most for many months.
Don't worry about it..!
Does Mr B seriously think that people won't notice his dealings?
Ah Well, maybe this is one CDR sale too many and may bring about a visit from the boys in Blue...Fat chance!
Regards Ralphie
Using a mates cookie whilst on his Hols.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 11:22 AM

Noreen if these CDR's are as you describe, surely they are not just bootlegs but counterfeit? Trading Standards and the Police are obliged to investigate if this is the case. Not that Bulmer will care a jot about such trivia!

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: IanC
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 11:21 AM

Guest (nobody)

I think your sarcasm (?) is falling on deaf ears. Perhaps because Pete Coe's posts are perfectly reasonable ... I followed your links.

Possibly Pete Coe's got some reson to complain about Celtic Music?

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 11:04 AM

Pete Coe being one of the central figures in the Jones Jihad Camp (tm).

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Noreen
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 10:51 AM

Thanks, Guest.

(It's a post from Pete Coe about Celtic Music's CDRs being sold as CDs by unwitting retailers.)

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 10:28 AM

uk.music.folk

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Noreen
Date: 06 Aug 02 - 10:01 AM

Roots Records at Warwick Festival were selling the following CDs, labelled as if still being produced by the original company (Mulligan, Leader etc) with only the smallest of lettering on the back saying:
Distributed by C.M.Distribution, Hookstone Park, Harrogate, North Yorkshire.

Paul Brady - Welcome Here Kind Stranger (Mulligan)
The Kipper Family Album - Since Time Immemorial (Dambuster)
Lal and Mike Waterson - Bright Phoebus (Leader)

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: RolyH
Date: 05 Aug 02 - 04:48 PM

It seems that all the CDs put out by CM are CDRs
I got caught when I bought The Dransfields 'Rout of the Blues'thinking it was the geniune article only to discover it was a CDR.
Spend time now looking for the original stuff on vinyl.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 05 Aug 02 - 04:15 PM

I think Dave Burland's 'Dalesmans Litany' was re=issued by Celtic Music a couple of years ago - was this on CDR too?

Just been listening to some of my Trailer/Leader stuf on vinyl...Muckram Wakes, Pete and Chris Coe, Tony Rose...it's not just the 'Jones Camp', dear Guest - (whatever the 'Jones Camp' might be..) as I've said before there's a lot of good music and a lot of excellent artists involved!

All the best........Harry Basnett.

P.S. Well done O, Intimidating One!!

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Noreen
Date: 05 Aug 02 - 10:35 AM

Hello, Guest, sorry to see you're feeling touchy today. If you're referring to my message, I am not a member of the "Jones camp" if such a thing exists, but take an interest in furthering knowledge. The vendors were very interested to learn that they were selling CDRs as full-priced CDs, without knowing it- this could obviously reflect on them. Perhaps you would like to contact the said vendors and ask whether they would rather be made aware of this or not? I'll let you have the details if so.

The thought of me intimidating the two large lads in charge of the stall strikes me as rather amusing... in fact they were very interested in the situation and questioned me at length on the old record labels and so on.

Good God, you people are out of control. err- who are you suggesting should be in control of 'us people'? You?

Noreen the Intimidator

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 02 - 08:57 AM

Ah, so now the Jones camp is going to intimidate vendors who sell Celtic Music product?

Good God, you people are out of control.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Noreen
Date: 05 Aug 02 - 08:00 AM

I noticed that the CD stall at Warwick Festival had several 'CM' re-releases on sale, including Bright Phoebus and a Mulligan one- sorry, can't find the details I wrote down, just now.

I had a word with the stall holders about the situation, which was all news to them, and I intend to contact the owner who wasn't available at the time.

Noreen

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From:
Date: 05 Aug 02 - 04:30 AM

Hi out there,

I have read the relevant threads with interest, as a big fan of British folk music and an owner of rather ragged copies of No More Forever, Bright Phoebus, Nic Jones, the Dransfields etc.

Can anyone tell me when Trailer folded and when Celtic Music bought up the rights (ie how long has this been going on?).

Also, are Nic Jones, Gaughan etc personally involved in legal actions against Bulmer?

I gathered that legal actions are in process against Celtic Music, but who has brought them and on what grounds and with what end in mind?

Thanks anyone.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, I-O-M
Date: 17 Jul 02 - 03:38 AM

Good on you Pat. You will need patience and perseverence in dealing with Bulmer and his pals, I am sure. Remember not to take any schtick from Sharpley the disgraced solicitor. He is struck off and should not be operating as a solicitor for Bulmer and/or his companies. Again, good luck and keep us informed as to progress - there's a lot of us who will be watching and hoping for your success.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: treewind
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:12 PM

Also this (just announced on uk.music.folk):

IN SEARCH OF NIC JONES

can be ordered from Mollie Music, 52 Newland Park Drive, York, YO10 3HP, UK

Cheques or IMOs in pounds sterling only payable to Nic Jones/Mollie Music Price 12.99 UK, 13.50 Europe, 14.00 USA

(Sorry if you saw it already in another Mudcat thread.) This is apparently a compilation from recordings of live performances. If you want to support Nic Jones, buy one of these!

Anahata

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: treewind
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:12 PM

Also this (just announced on uk.music.folk):

IN SEARCH OF NIC JONES

can be ordered from Mollie Music, 52 Newland Park Drive, York, YO10 3HP, UK

Cheques or IMOs in pounds sterling only payable to Nic Jones/Mollie Music Price 12.99 UK, 13.50 Europe, 14.00 USA

(Sorry if you saw it already in another Mudcat thread.) This is apparently a compilation from recordings of live performances. If you want to support Nic Jones, buy one of these!

Anahata

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: treewind
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 11:22 AM

Just to clarify things a bit, "Unearthed" is on the level - it has nothing to do with Celtic Music/Bulmer etc. Buy that if you want to hear a recent(ish) release of anything by Nic Jones, but avoid the rest.

Another point I meant to make: every time you buy one of the Bulmer CDRs you are now knowingly contributing some part of 15 pounds to Bulmers legal expenses in his defence against Pat's suit. If that's what you really want to do...

Anahata

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,Pat Cooksey, Germany.
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 06:55 AM

The re-release of this Nic Jones C.D. by Celtic Music is not licenced by MCPS who collect royalties on record sales in the UK, therefore there will be no record of sales or royalties due under this title. MCPS have advised me that Celtic Music are no longer members of this organisation. Draw your own conclusions. Best wishes, Pat.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: treewind
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 03:57 AM

There's very little (if anything) on sale that Nic gets any royalties for. Buying the Bulmer CDRs (which aren't licensed by MCPS so production and royalty payment figures are untraceable) will not result in Nic getting anything.

Apart from that, there are some doubts cast on the quality of the copies. Treat these as bootlegs on sale at full price.

The argument in favour of free publishing of music on the net so that listeners are encouraged to buy real CD's from the artist is one that I support and believe, but it does not apply here.

Nic and Julia don't want us to buy these copies: they want the legal stuff sorted out so they get the money they are owed. Of course ther wishes are irrelevant: "GUEST: anonymous coward" knows better....

Duh.

Anahata

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jul 02 - 12:04 AM

Right. Do not buy it. Unless of course you actually want to listen to it. Which in turn would make you want to buy MORE Nic Jones CDs, wouldn't it? I can appreciate the "don't give the bastard a penny" argument. But really, if it helps sell more records for Nic (including the ones that Nic DOES get the royalties for) isn't that better than trying to shut off the supply everyone has been screaming forever for?

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: RolyH
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 06:04 PM

I think you'll find that the Nic Jones release is one of a few CDR's 'trickled' out by Celtic Music over the last few years.Do not buy it.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 05:38 PM

This is interesting in the light of the news announced on Mike Harding's radio programme on BBC on Wednesday the 10th July that Nic Jones's first LP has just been released on CD by GUESS WHO!

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,Pat Cooksey, Germany.
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 04:50 PM

I was about to post to mudcat when I saw someone had beaten me to it, I discussed this matter with a lawyer here in Germany and he stated that it was the most blatant fraud on the part of a music publisher that he had ever seen, I had known for some time what was happening but it's taken a lot of research to gather the evidence, I have it now.

Best wishes,

Pat.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: treewind
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 03:53 PM

If you look in rec.music.folk or uk.music.folk, you'll see that Pat Cooksey has amassed a collection of "compelling evidence" against Bulmer, Sharpley and Celtic Music for breach of contract, fraud and negligence and has now announced his intention to commence proceedings.

I'm glad to hear that someone has put together a case that looks like it might stick in the courts. Pat seems to have done his homework.

You can find one copy of his announcement Here (I hope that works: it's a Google newsgroups page)

Anahata

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,Mike, Horfield, Bristol
Date: 17 May 02 - 12:43 AM

Stutter, yes! As you may realise I pressed the enter key - being a newcomer to both computers and to Mudcat. However I have read several Mudcat threads and eventually found the one on Mr Bulmer. He strikes me as the textbook example of a "dodgy" music business "entrepreneur". If he still has admirers anywhere I'd be amazed and was amazed to learn that in Leeds he still has friends in the music world. I play a little music myself and count myself fortunate therefore that I live in Bristol which puts Mr Bulmer some distance from the music scene here. Surely as we are now well and truly into the new century there is no place for old style music biz rip-offs. Didn't most of them happen in the last century. The moral perhaps is that Mr Bulmer is a "yesterday" man and if he's not then the parties he has finacially and professionally damaged should do their damndest to see that he is and never gets the chance to destroy new careers. It's a heartbreak business and it's particularly heartbreaking to see parasites like this still operate. Best wishes to all who challenge him. I'm going to press the return key n.........

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Ralphie
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:43 PM

Kit
Noted...
Ta R xx

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:25 PM

I still haven't worked out how to do clickies, but there's an interesting post from Pat Cooksey on the Sick Note thread saying he's just "regained" the copyright from Celtic Music through legal action.

Kitty

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: okthen
Date: 16 May 02 - 12:00 PM

that's one heck of a stutter Mike

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,Mike, Horfield, Bristol
Date: 16 May 02 - 03:23 AM

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,Mike in Bristol
Date: 13 May 02 - 02:46 PM

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,jez. Leeds.
Date: 11 May 02 - 07:08 AM

Sorry computer breakdown. I just wanted to say that amazingly Bulmer still has his supporters in this area, where he seems to be regarded as a bit of a JACK THE LAD. No accounting for folk as they say.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,jez. Leeds.
Date: 07 May 02 - 06:05 AM

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Ralphie
Date: 05 May 02 - 03:44 PM

Dear GUEST JS
Thak you for the valued information. I doubt if any sensible adult who has any real involvement in this sorry case could accuse you of Flaming (ie being insulting to others)
As you rightly say, many people have been dragged through this unending (but not for much longer, hopefully) saga.
It was IMO Nics predicament over the last 20 years that touched people to become in involved. With respect to all the other artists, the very fact that they are all still seemingly OK and performing, would not attract such attention from the public at large. (God Bless you Lal)
Thank you for your interesting contributions to the discussion...(along with many others, Andy, Nerd etc, etc)
To be continued, as they say!
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,john sutherland
Date: 05 May 02 - 09:02 AM

I have in fact read other recording contracts, and whilst I agree they are difficult for the layman to follow Celtic Music's contract's are unique in that few if any of the oblgations to the artists are met. I have no interest in starting a flame war, whatever that might be, I simply point out the Bulmer and Sharpley are still operating under various company names, Sharpley has been discredited, but David Bulmer is shrewd enough to have protected his assets. In answer to GUEST Andy, Neil Sharpley is still corresponding with music organisations on behalf of Celtic Music, but his letterhead which formerly detailed all companies and directors has been replaced with one with just the name Neil Sharpley, and the address 24, Mercer Row, Louth, Lincolnshire, no mention of Mr Bulmer, and replies to this address appear to be redirected through the local post office, whereas CM Records Ltd has an address at C/O Weaver Wroot, Pawnshop Passage, Mercer Row, Louth, Lincolnshire. I agree the the Nic Jones case was the most tragic of those involving this company, and congratulations are in order for those who kept this case alive, but there are many other artists seeking justice from Celtic Music. If my observations are old news, so be it, but I believe it is important to continue to focus on this company in the interest of the artists involved, and folk music in general.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,Andy, Port Erin, IOM
Date: 03 May 02 - 12:21 PM

Wondered where the thread had got to! To P.H. - just remember that the bent lawyer Sharpley has been struck off the roll and I am sure that there must be organisations who would be very interested to hear from you if he communicates with his solicitor hat on. I have never seen a Celtic Records contract(and probably never will)but you can bet it's down there with the most disreputable of its type. Contracts like these have been tested in the Courts (Elton John etc) with great success and with artises recovering at least some of what they were owed. It's in your hands matey - good luck.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 02 - 08:28 AM

Are we supposed to surprised by this revelation? Is there someone out there who thought otherwise about CM and it's contracts? I don't know how many recording contracts you have seen in your day Mr. Sutherland, but they are all like wading through mud and are heavily weighted against the artists.

Old news is just that, and it seems to me the only purpose in dredging this up again is start another flame war. The subject has been talked to death here, and quite venomously at that. Are you here to stir things up and rip open old wounds Mr. Sutherland?

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: GUEST,john sutherland
Date: 03 May 02 - 05:36 AM

Have obtained a copy of a Celtic Music recording contract and reading it is like wading through mud. I do not know the legal situation regarding catalogues of artists work bought from insolvent companies but the Celtic Music contract contains certain obligations to the artist by this company. The company is obliged to make a statement to the artist every six months detailing record sales, royalties due,etc, royalties to be paid at the rate stated in the contract, this contract is over restrictive in every respect and is weighted heavily agaist the artist. Any artist who finds the terms of this contract have not been met has a strong case in law for the termination of same. Some artists have succesfully taken this course.

Subject: RE: 'Celtic Music/Dave Bulmer' saga: Part 3
From: Ralphie
Date: 02 May 02 - 02:01 PM

Hey...Have I been hired by someone...??
Errrrr...Don't think so!...Least ways, I haven't signed a contract, and am not being payed.
Yes, Of course all musicians should think long and hard before signing anything. Especially in the Folk World, where sometimes the difference between making a living, or just about surviving, could actually come down to a few hundred record sales.
Maybe new and up & coming artists will read all of this and take note. It's not even as though we're talking 6 figure numbers here.
All I ask is fair play for someone who has not had the chance.
Ralphie.
(Getting off his soapbox...about time too, you cry!)