BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 03:33 PM

Jimmy,

OVER THE LAST 14 YEARS.


You really need to learn to read AND think.

Maybe even at the same time.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 05:18 PM

Oh boy, Bullshot is off his meds again.....

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 05:43 PM

Has anyone noticed that the biggest opposition to Israel comes from our U.K. 'Catters?....I suppose it's easy to be so fucking 'opinionated' about Israel striking back to stop the missile attacks, and tunnel invasions, and then blame Israel. Maybe the U.S. shouldn't have beaten the crap out of Germany, and bomb the fuck out of them, and their cities, and let them continue the bombing of London, and other parts of England....that way the modern day supporters of the idiot Fascists, that were bombing THEM, could have been typing their idiotic posts in German!!!..and you could be buying stock in the railways and chemical companies, to transport more Jews to their Holocaust...while your leader, Chamberlain and his modern day ilk, could give away other countries to appease the attackers!
What a bunch of moronic idiots!!

You, of all people should appreciate Israel for striking back...after all, England would have never made it, without defending itself, with America's 'help'..AND the largest invasion in history to save your silly asses!

Time to re-think your idiot position!
What are you?..Suicidal and proud of it????
...or just spoiled brats who can't think past their indoctrinated fantasy illusions???..and their over-inflated opinions of themselves??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 06:20 PM

Israel has offered to extend a three-day ceasefire in Gaza which began on Tuesday after nearly a month of conflict, Israeli officials say.

However, unconfirmed reports on social media suggest the militant Hamas movement, which controls Gaza, has not agreed to the extension.

BBC

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 06:30 PM

GfS does make a good point about some of our Brit posters whose country's ass was saved in WWII largely with US help yet they resent US aid to Israel......oh the hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 09:16 PM

Not only that, Bobad, the U.S. AND Great Britain, BOTH bombed Berlin and other targets, in which there was collateral damage, and civilian deaths...MULTITUDES!...Did Great Britain bitch when V-E day arrived??..Hell No..they were celebrating and partying in the streets... Worldwide!....Then the soldiers came home, took wives, had children, who then, in turn, bitch about another country, that defends itself from the same thing, that their parents lived through..or should I say, courageously lived through!!...and now we have a bunch of Neville Chamberlains, tied in with the mega corporations and banksters, accusing Israel of being 'mean' to their attackers!!!
Talk about short sighted hypocrisy!!!...They are flaming idiots, and if they were running YOUR country, or ours, they would be treasonous traitors.....but that's OK...they've somewhat successfully blinded you(not you Bobad), with just a lot of bullshit...which apparently tastes real good to the nitwit crowd!
...but as long as they get their plastic, and T.V.'s, and computers, they don't think of survival beyond that!

Most Sincerely,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST,hw
Date: 06 Aug 14 - 11:18 PM

The have laptop warriors here have likely never been in an armed conflict, maybe never even been tear-gassed, clubbed or even pepper sprayed. Yet they are endorsing war crimes and genocide by a racist, settler/colonial state which doesn't give a shit about international law, or UN resolutions, because it has the USA's veto in it's pocket, along with Congress. Ironically another settler/colonial state founded by armed resistance and exterminating the indigenous peoples there.
The 7th cavalry was defending itself at Wounded Knee in 1890 when 200 women and children were butchered. A lot of Congressional Medals were handed out for that turkey shoot and so it continues.
End the Siege of Gaza, Stop building settlements on stolen land, Dismantle the Wall and move it to the UN recognized 1967 border.
And Western leaders, get some guts and tell the Zionists to piss off

Boycott, Divest, and Sanction

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 01:50 AM

Interesting parallels raised both by GfS and "Guest,hw" whose rather naive solution is:

"End the Siege of Gaza, Stop building settlements on stolen land, Dismantle the Wall and move it to the UN recognized 1967 border.
And Western leaders, get some guts and tell the Zionists to piss off

Boycott, Divest, and Sanction"

The demand would appear to be that Egypt and Israel must "End the Seige of Gaza" immediately and unconditionally. But Hamas and the Palestinians have to do nothing, leaving them free to "import" whatever weaponry they require (readily supplied by Iran) to resume attacks on Israeli civilians. Sorry "Guest,hw" that isn't going to happen. Only a complete and utter idiot would go along with that - only a complete and utter idiot would propose it.

"Stop building settlements on stolen land" the only land stolen from Palestine was Gaza, East Jerusalem and the West Bank - They were stolen by the Egyptians and Jordanians in 1948 and illegally occupied for nearly 20 years - I note that you have never raised any objections to that. In 1947 the Arabs of Palestine were offered a Two State solution that they rejected, the Jews of Palestine accepted them - Now because the Arabs rejected that deal the plain simple fact of the matter is that there are NO agreed and established borders defining any Israeli and Palestinian states - stop pretending that there are.

"Dismantle the Wall" - Oh you mean the wall that has saved Israeli lives since its construction, preventing sniper attacks and bombers crossing from the West bank into Israel? The peace wall will stay, but as you stated:

"Dismantle the Wall and move it to the UN recognized 1967 border.

You already seem to recognise that fact and accept the necessity of there being a wall - Only trouble is, placed along this mythical recognised 1967 border (Which in actual fact is recognised by no-one) the Wall would not serve its purpose, it would be ineffective. Plus the fact that "going back to 1967 borders" gives Gaza to the Egyptians and East Jerusalem and the West Bank to the Jordanians. Or again is it only the Israelis who must act and commit to meeting the terms and conditions of this deal?

There can be no peace, there can be no settlement, there cannot even be any meaningful talks until the two following conditions are met:

1: Attacks on Israel launched from inside Palestinian territory MUST stop completely.

2: A clear and unequivocal statement has to be made covering all Palestinians that the right of Israel to exist as a State is recognised and that the population of Israel has the right to exist and live their lives in peace and security free from attack and the threat of attack from her neighbours.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 05:04 AM

"When I want a lecture from The USA I shall have to start murdering my citizens."

Harold Wilson.



I suppose Israel is keeping a tab and saying how they will pay back their "Marshall Plan."??

The USA waded in late, as usual, not to end atrocity but once they worked out that they were next. Pearl Harbour anyone?

If people from civilised countries where citizens aren't armed, prisoners aren't killed and cheese doesn't come in spray cans point out moral aspects, it's possibly because since leaving The USA to it in 1776 , our oversize trousered cousins still have less culture than a bucket of yoghurt. Goofus wants to know why?

Culture and mature pragmatic civilised behaviour.

Oh, and we can spell behaviour too.

Fascinated when I was in Chicago last. An old business colleague couldn't work out why, having right of residency, I or anyone for that matter wouldn't take it up.

You need to get out more.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 05:47 AM

Beardie
Sorry - didn't understand either of your posts - what points were you making on both occasions?
"Has anyone noticed that the biggest opposition to Israel comes from our U.K. 'Catters?"
Possibly because we haven't got as many skeletons in our cupboards as has the U.S. with its carpet bombing, napalming and spraying of toxic carcinogenic chemicals    Vietnam, Cambodia..... and all the fascist dictators who the U.S. has supplied with arms intelligence (sic) and manpower)......
People who live in g#lass houses and all that.
"Israel has offered to extend a three-day ceasefire in Gaza which began on Tuesday after nearly a month of conflict, Israeli officials say."
Israel has left Gaza a major disaster area which will remain such for the foreseeable future
Mission accomplished.
Doesn't satisfy Terrytoon the Bearded braindead of course - that won't be achieved until every Palestinian is a thing of the past.
Game on eh lads?
"Boycott, Divest, and Sanction"
Drink to that
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 06:41 AM

Not enough dead to satisy the blood lust of Hamas:

The Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas's armed wing, said it will start firing as soon as the ceasefire ends on Friday at 8 a.m., Israeli news site Walla reported, citing the Hamas news agency Al-Risala.

Hamas deputy leader Mussa Abu Marzouq, part of the Palestinian delegation holding talks in Cairo, denied overnight there was yet any agreement.

"There is no agreement to extend the ceasefire," he wrote on Twitter.

"Any news about the extension of the truce is unfounded," added Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri.

Senior Hamas figure Ismail Radwan told Al-Risala that there has been no agreement on extending the ceasefire because Hamas demands have not been met.

Hamas rejects truce extension, threatens to renew fighting

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Musket
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 06:45 AM

Jim, may I correct your grammar?

You asked braidedbeardedbruce what point he making. It should have read as asking what point he was making UP.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 06:48 AM

Anti-Israel posturing is for many people the cheapest route to the appearance of virtue. So it is with British Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg and the Tory peer Baroness Sayeeda Warsi. Both have in recent days called for the suspension of U.K. arms-export licenses to the Jewish state. The Baroness took the further step on Tuesday of resigning her post as a Foreign Office Minister over David Cameron's "morally indefensible policy" on Gaza, as she put it in a letter to the Prime Minister.

The usual media suspects frame this minor rebellion as a heavy blow against Mr. Cameron: As the Liberal Democrat leader, Mr. Clegg is the junior partner in the coalition government; Baroness Warsi, meanwhile, is said to represent a groundswell of Tory discontent over Britain's mildly pro-Israel policy.

All that may be, but Mr. Clegg's and the Baroness's gesture politics also expose their own inconsistent moral outrage.

Britain's Anti-Israel Charades

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 07:03 AM

"Britain's Anti-Israel Charades"
Dis that cut-'n- paste actually say anything other than a leading financial newspaper objects to Baroness Warsi is in danger of putting at risk the profits of some arms dealers and financeers
Were's me hankie
"It should have read as asking what point he was making UP"
Much appreciated Muskie
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 07:11 AM

Hamas' war strategy works like this:

- Episodically attack Israel's civilians in such as way as to provoke a counter-attack.

- Hide behind Palestinian civilians (preferably in crowded neighborhoods, schools, and hospitals), while encouraging them, even forcing them, to stay, guaranteeing that the return fire wounds or kills civilians and damages civilian structures.

- Encourage the Western news media to play up the civilian suffering, play down Hamas' role in it, and accuse Israel.

- Conjure a firestorm of outrage around the world that eventually pressures Israel into desisting from counteroffensive measures.

- Survive to reap the propaganda victory and prepare the next round of hostilities.

- Repeat, with each exchange hurting Israel more, and each round of international news coverage further savaging the Jewish State's international reputation.

No matter what the Israeli response, the Hamas strategy is win-win. If the Israelis abort a strike to avoid civilian casualties (as they often do), then Hamas is spared the blow; if an Israeli strike causes civilian casualties, Hamas has dead babies to parade before the cameras. And eventually, the bloodletting will get so bad, the pictures so damning, that Israel will stop. Hamas' endgame goals, at least at this stage of its asymmetrical war, are actually threefold: tie Israel down with constraints on its use of power, delegitimize and demonize it in the eyes of the world, and stir an aggressive "Muslim Street" in the West, where genocidal chants can lead to pogroms against the Jews worldwide.

This time, however, this "dead baby" strategy, despite a pedigree of decades, has become increasingly apparent to the observant, perhaps because Hamas has resorted to ever-more obvious tactics to victimize their own people: storing its weapons and firing them from residential areas, hospitals, schools and mosques and even, hiding its leaders under Shiffa hospital. Asked about this, UN official John Ging readily admits: "Yes the armed groups are firing their armed rockets into Israel from the vicinity of UN facilities and residential areas, absolutely." Indeed, in some cases, while journalists speak to the camera, often following Hamas' script, Jihadis fire rockets right nearby—live, as it were.

The pattern consistently demonstrates what one Gazan from Tal Awad described to an Italian journalist in 2009 during Operation Cast Lead: "They wanted the [Israelis] to shoot at the [the civilians'] houses so they could accuse them of more war crimes." The importance of these rockets is not where they're aimed, but whence they're fired. They're a reverse target, designed to create the carnage that will rouse Western indignation.

How the media helped Hamas in the third Gaza War

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 08:03 AM

"It should have read as asking what point he was making UP"
Much appreciated Muskie
Jim Carroll
..,

Yes. teehee. LoL.

But it was not, as that egregious Mr Mather claimed, a 'grammatical' point in any sense. He should go back to the dictionary which I daresay he has stashed away somewhere & check precisely what 'grammar' is.

& before he objects to my reading his posts again, I will reiterate that that is a matter for me, not for his pathetic unsolicited little yay-or-nays. He really is a pompous, prescriptive, foolish, foulmouthed fellow, innit!

Adieu -- for the nonce

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 08:12 AM

Hamas terrorists desecrating and disrespecting Churches by firing rockets from them. They are shameful, despicable animals!

Gaza Bishop: Hamas Used Church to Fire Rockets

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 08:53 AM

"They are shameful, despicable animals!"
Aren't they just?
Mosques attacked in Gaza:
*118 mosques have been shelled, of which 81 were partially damaged while 37 were fully destroyed".
NOT TO MENTION
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 10:35 AM

"I'm disgusted by the Jew-hatred that some Europeans have shown in their protests against Israel. It's prompted me to reflect on a moment when I lacked the moral courage to speak up. In this spirit, I'm posting a video that's never been shown before. I welcome your comments."

Irshad Manji: "I knew it was wrong, and I said nothing."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 11:00 AM

"I'm disgusted by the Jew-hatred that some Europeans have shown in their protests against Israel"
ISRAEL'S USE OF ANTISEMITISM
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 12:26 PM

I'm disgusted by the Jew-hatred that some Europeans have shown in their protests against Israel

Another asshole who thinks that criticism of the Israeli government is "anti-Semitism". Who cares.

Next Boo will be flogging the Nazi nonsense again.

Also, who cares.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 12:31 PM

BERLIN — Across Europe, the conflict in Gaza is generating a broader backlash against Jews, as threats, hate speech and even violent attacks proliferate in several countries.

Most surprising perhaps, a wave of incidents has washed over Germany, where atonement for the Holocaust and other Nazi crimes is a bedrock of the modern society. A commitment to the right of Israel to exist is ironclad. Plaques and memorials across the country exhort, "Never Again." Children are taught starting in elementary school that their country's Nazi history must never be repeated. Even so, academics say the recent episodes may reflect a rising climate of anti-Semitism that they had observed before the strife over Gaza.

This week, the police in the western city of Wuppertal detained two young men on suspicion of throwing firebombs at the city's new synagogue; the attack early Tuesday caused no injuries. In Frankfurt on Thursday, the police said, a beer bottle was thrown through a window at the home of a prominent critic of anti-Semitism. She heard an anti-Jewish slur after going to the balcony to confront her assailant, The Frankfurter Rundschau reported. An anonymous caller to a rabbi threatened last week to kill 30 Frankfurt Jews if the caller's family in Gaza was harmed, the police said.

The string of incidents comes after Chancellor Angela Merkel condemned anti-Semitic chants from pro-Palestinian demonstrators and President Joachim Gauck called on Germans to "raise their voices if there is a new anti-Semitism being strutted on the street."

But even as the police have clamped down on demonstrators, banning slogans that target Jews instead of Israeli policies, a spike in violence has spread fear among Jews, not only in Germany but also in other European countries.

More Jews have begun leaving France in recent months, following anti-Semitism that has spilled onto the streets since the start of the Gaza conflict almost a month ago. While most of the pro-Palestinian demonstrations have been peaceful, a small number of violent protesters, many of them young Arab men, has targeted Jewish businesses and synagogues.

French authorities have strongly condemned the violence and, citing public-safety concerns, have refused to authorize a small number of pro-Palestinian demonstrations. Others have spoken of a need to counter anti-Semitism among certain segments of the country's Muslim youth.

Prime Minister Manuel Valls spoke last week of a "new," "normalized" anti-Semitism. "It blends the Palestinian cause, jihadism, the detestation of Israel and the hatred of France and its values," he told the National Assembly.

Even in historically tolerant Italy, anti-Semitic smears have appeared on the streets of Rome. Jewish shop windows in several neighborhoods were defaced this week with swastikas and tags reading "Torch the synagogues" and "Jews your end is near." Police suspect that right-wing extremists, possibly along with pro-Palestinian activists, carried out the acts.

Continue reading the main storyContinue reading the main story
Riccardo Di Segni, the chief rabbi of Rome, said he believed that the threats were linked to tensions in the Middle East. "There is cyclically a common thread running between the dramatic tensions in the Middle East and the increase of anti-Semitic episodes," he said.

In Austria, a preseason soccer match between the Israeli team Maccabi Haifa and Germany's Paderborn was moved to a more secure location last weekend after a group of youths bearing Palestinian and Turkish flags stormed the field and attacked players during a previous match.

Prominent newspapers, politicians and popular stars in Austria and Germany have responded to the anti-Jewish outburst with a campaign called "Raise Your Voice," in support of their countries' Jewish communities. But Samuel Salzborn, a professor of political science at Göttingen University, does not believe that the effort has shifted public opinion.

"The official line of the German government is happily, clearly against anti-Semitism, but that is resulting in far too little," Mr. Salzborn said. "There is a startling indifference in the German public to the current display of anti-Semitism."

To many of the more than 100,000 Jews in Germany, the outburst of anti-Semitism since the conflict flared in Gaza has a troubling undertone and has stirred especially painful memories. The Central Council of Jews in Germany has received hundreds of calls from members asking whether they should pack their suitcases and leave the country.

"I have not heard that for many years," said Dieter Graumann, the council president. "When calls for Jews to be gassed, burned and murdered are bawled on the streets of Germany, that no longer has anything to do with Israel's politics and Gaza. It is the most abhorrent form of anti-Semitism."

Academics who study anti-Semitism say the acceptance of disparaging remarks about Jews has become increasingly common in the educated middle class over the past two decades. Especially on social media, where hashtags such as #HitlerWasRight have appeared, there has been a significant jump in slurs against Jews.

Monika Schwarz-Friesel, a cognitive scientist at Technical University, has spent 10 years tracking anti-Semitic comments from educated Germans in letters to editors, in Internet chat rooms and on social media. She said such comments in public forums had served as kindling for the most recent outbreak.

"Violence always starts in the mind," Ms. Schwarz-Friesel said. "Attacks like that on the synagogue in Wuppertal are not just pulled out of thin air."

Carola Melchert-Arlt, an elementary school principal in Berlin and mother of three, said she felt afraid for the first time in her decades of living in Germany. She said her mother had asked her to stop wearing a Star of David, a family heirloom from her grandmother's bat mitzvah, around her neck.

Friends have taken down their mezuzas, Ms. Melchert-Arlt said, and she no longer stifles a smile when a fellow Jew wonders if they are really welcome in Germany.

"We have all always felt the latent anti-Semitism here," Ms. Melchert-Arlt said. "But what we have experienced in recent weeks and days, not only in Germany but across Europe, is a prevailing mood of outward anti-Jewish sentiment in the streets."

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 12:39 PM

But I should KNOW that Greggie thinks " throwing firebombs at the city's new synagogue" is just good old fun.

Next he will get out the white sheets and hemp rope, and find a tree, just to have fun with someone who is " Black, and a Democrat".

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 01:19 PM

Bullshot, you really don't have the brains or sense that God gave slime molds, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 01:21 PM

More of what the stooges must think of as "fun and games".

"n March 2012 a shooting spree in the south of France targeting French soldiers and Jewish students left seven people dead, including three schoolchildren and a young rabbi. "

Of course Greggie wants to see a higher body count to really get his rocks off.



FRANCE'S leaders are increasingly worried about the apparent rise of anti-Semitism in their country. Yesterday afternoon François Hollande, the president, called an urgent meeting of Jewish, Muslim, Christian and Buddhist leaders to discuss the outbreak of anti-Jewish violence over the weekend when demonstrators against Israel's actions in Gaza ran wild.

On a hot Saturday in the predominantly Muslim neighbourhood of Barbès, not far from the Gare du Nord, a big railway station in Paris, a crowd that swelled to around 3,000 ignored an official ban on demonstrating. They set fire to an Israeli flag, bashed in shops and threw stones at serried ranks of riot police, 15 of whom retired wounded.

On Sunday afternoon the violence spilled over into Sarcelles, a suburb with a large Sephardic Jewish population. A Molotov cocktail was launched at the main synagogue and a kosher shop was burnt down. Shop windows were smashed; several stores were looted; flames flared fitfully. Tear gas hung heavy in the air as riot police scattered the thugs, firing rubber bullets. Four policemen ended up in hospital. Permitted pro-Palestinian demonstrations elsewhere passed off peacefully, prompting some to say that banning the demonstrations in Paris was provocative as well as contravening the right to free speech. But a week earlier several Paris synagogues had been targeted by protesters shouting "Death to the Jews".

After the meeting with the president yesterday, Joël Mergui, president of the Jewish Central Consistory of France, paused for a moment on the steps of the Elysée palace to shake hands with Dalil Boubakeur, rector of the Grand Mosque of Paris. But fixing the toxic mix of economic marginalisaton and growing radicalisation among many Muslims that provides the backdrop to such episodes will take more than a handshake.

In March 2012 a shooting spree in the south of France targeting French soldiers and Jewish students left seven people dead, including three schoolchildren and a young rabbi. The perpetrator, Mohammed Merah, a French criminal of Algerian descent, claimed connections with al-Qaeda. On May 24th of this year, four people were shot dead in the Jewish Museum of Belgium. Mehdi Nemmouche, a Frenchman of Algerian origin who is believed to have fought with Islamist rebels in Syria, was arrested for the crime, which he denies committing. Later that evening, two Jews in traditional dress coming out of the synagogue in Créteil, near Paris, were attacked by thugs.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 01:22 PM

"Across Europe, the conflict in Gaza is generating a broader backlash against Jews, as threats, hate speech and even violent attacks proliferate in several countries."
See what happens when you blame Israeli terrorism on the Jewish people
"Another asshole who thinks that criticism of the Israeli government is "anti-Semitism""
Acttually Greg, may not have read it properly, but she appears to make a number of interesting points - read her CV
Little Booboo may have come up with something interesting when he isn't drawing his support from 'White Supremist', 'Muslim Watch' and 'Gatestone'
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 01:47 PM

I have been a journalist for a quarter of a century. I have covered terrorism both in Israel and internationally. I reported on the war in the Balkans, on upheavals in Russia since the fall of the Communism, on peace negotiations between Israel, the Palestinians and the Syrians. I have covered the synagogue bombings in Istanbul and I covered the hotel bombing in Taba, Egypt in 2004.

In the early days of what looks like a ceasefire that may hold in Israel, and in the days before war crime charges will most certainly be filed against Israel, I am more worried than ever that my profession has been compromised; some would even say that journalism is dead.

It was during the reporting on the Second Intifada in Israel that I began to notice an erosion of the basic tenets of journalism. Journalists became vehicles for the Palestinian narrative of injustice rather than simply impartial observers of a complex conflict.

In the current war, international media coverage makes it appear to viewers as if every morning Israelis wake up and ask ourselves – how many Palestinian children shall we kill today? Colonel Richard Kemp, the former Commander of British Forces in Afghanistan, put it this way:

    To suggest that military incompetence is the only explanation for civilian deaths other than deliberate mass murder reveals a breathtaking but unsurprising ignorance of the realities of combat.

    Although rarely allowed to complete so much as a single sentence, Israeli attempts to explain IDF targeting policies are inevitably dismissed as laughable fabrication.

In my view, there has been no real reporting in this conflict. While everybody agrees that there are Palestinian civilian casualties – the ratio of 70 to 80 percent remained unchanged during the month long war — how is this possible? Where are the Hamas militant casualties?

Michael J. Totten writes compellingly of inflated and inaccurate numbers in The World Affairs Journal.

    Analyses of the casualties listed in the daily reports published by the Palestinian Center for Human Rights, a Gaza-based organization operating under Hamas rule, indicate that young males ages 17 to 30 make up a large portion of the fatalities, and a particularly noticeable spike occurs between males ages 21 to 27, a pattern consistent with the age distribution typically found among combatants and military conscripts.

In the international media however, we have not seen photos of these men, many of whom are likely Hamas militants, just countless pictures of Palestinian children.

Media reporting on European views of the crisis in Gaza are complex and seen almost solely through media bias and exploitation of previously held ideas about underdogs, anti-Semitism and emotion versus reason.

If there is a crisis in journalism, the Arab-Israeli highlights the crisis as never before.

Former Israeli Ambassador to the US Michael Oren was interviewed on CNN after Ron Dermer, the current Israeli Ambassador to the US complained that CNN's coverage was focused on pictures of Palestinian children, while not mentioning the UN school that housed rockets.

As CNN asked Oren about his views on media bias, his picture was minimized while the entire screen was filled with pictures of Palestinian children – from the same loop we had already seen. Even an after-the-fact interview to discuss media bias…contained media bias. The images shown have an obvious and not so subliminal affect on viewers. See the interview here, queued up to the section to which I refer:

According to the Committee for Accuracy in Middle East Reporting in America, in an L.A. Times slideshow of more than 75 photographs from the conflict, there's not a single image of a Hamas fighter.

Again, according to Richard Kemp:

    …the Palestinian body count is vital to Hamas's propaganda war that aims to bring international pressure on Israel and incite anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic hatred around the world.

Either journalists are no longer observing as impartially as possible or they are censoring themselves — or even being censored. In any case, the end result is that journalists, wittingly or unwittingly are serving Hamas's propagandist aims. This is not journalism.

Is Journalism Dead?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 01:56 PM

Jimmy boy,

"March 2012 a shooting spree in the south of France targeting French soldiers and Jewish students left seven people dead, including three schoolchildren and a young rabbi. "


NOTE THE DATE.

YOUR friends are killing Jews BEFORE there was even a Gaza attack.

You must be SO proud of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 02:39 PM

According to CAMERA. Boo?

Oh, Please.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 02:43 PM

According to Hamas. Greggie boy?

Oh, Please.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 02:57 PM

Blog was by

"The former Senior Producer of CNN's Jerusalem bureau for twenty plus years, Izzy Lemberg is a veteran international television news producer and recipient of the prestigious Edward R. Murrow award. "


I think HE has more right to comment on journalism than you or any of the other stooges do.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 03:25 PM

"the brains or sense that God gave slime molds,"


So THAT'S why Greggie is so jealous of slime molds!

He missed out, and wants to be up there with those slime molds.

Too bad he has not yet been successful.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 03:27 PM

"YOUR friends are killing Jews BEFORE there was even a Gaza attack."
you really don't get it do you - Antisemitism has always been with us - shits like you blaming Jews for Israeli atrocities and war crimes just keep it alive.
Fy family were fighting fascism on the streets of Liverpool, only to be left with shits like you pissing on the memory of six million dead.
Who knows, maybe Israel will listen to your suggestion that "all Muslims are less than human" and they should "push on in Gaza and either drive them into the desert or wipe out the ones who won't go".
Do you really believe that statements like that are representative of the Jewish people?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 03:49 PM

Just an observation -- Can we have less of the patronising & belittling "Little Booboo", please, Little Jimbo?

Where have your manners gone? & it's a poor substitute for rational argument.

≈M≈

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 04:17 PM

Why They Fight: Hamas' Too Little Known Fascist Charter

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 04:42 PM

The BBC has admitted that pictures of alleged Israeli airstrikes on Gaza and their aftermath may be inaccurate.

A little-known division of the corporation called BBC Trending says that many of images being shared on social media under the #GazaUnderAttack hashtag are in fact several years old, and in some cases from different conflicts.

In one case, a Twitter user posted multiple images with the caption: "This is not a matter of religion. This is a matter of humanity #GazaUnderAttack" – except one of the images was from Syria last month, and another from Baghdad in 2007.

One 16-year-old who shared another inaccurate image told BBC Trending: "I didn't actually know that the picture was recycled," before trying to justify it by saying: "I guess I just used it as an illustration – people don't need to take it as a literal account. If you think of bombs going off that's pretty much what it looks like."

Abdirahim Saeed of BBC Arabic said: "This misuse of pictures on social media is not particularly unique to this particular hashtag. We've seen this before in Syria, in Iraq, and you've got to keep an eye on who you're following, [and ask yourself] where did this picture come from?"

The BBC itself, however, is not immune from sharing inaccurate images. Journalist Tom Gross, who monitors Middle Eastern media, added: "What the BBC item doesn't point out is that some of the most senior BBC correspondents in the Middle East, such as Jon Donnison have been responsible for sending out these inaccurate photos on their BBC twitter feeds!"

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 05:28 PM

Leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Kuwait, Tareq Al-Suwaidan to Gaza civilians: "You received the death you wanted. We have no problem with death. We are not like the children of Israel".

Al-Aqsa TV, August 1, 2014.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Aug 14 - 05:37 PM

Source for 07 Aug 14 - 04:42 PM , Boo??

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 02:02 AM

As reported by the BBC this morning:

"The Palestinian militant organisation Hamas has rejected any extension of the three-day ceasefire in Gaza, which expired on Friday morning.

It said that Israel had failed to meet its demands. Key among these is the re-opening of Gaza Harbour to shipping.

Two rockets fired from Gaza hit southern Israel three hours before the three-day ceasefire was due to expire, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said.

The IDF accused "terrorists" of violating the ceasefire.

The rockets fell on open ground and caused no casualties, the Israeli army said early on Friday.

Hamas has denied firing them.

A Hamas military wing spokesman earlier called on Palestinian negotiators holding indirect talks with Israeli negotiators in Cairo to refuse any ceasefire extension unless its long-term demands were met.

The spokesman said his organisation was ready for "a long war".

At a rally held in Gaza yesterday support for Hamas amongst the population of Gaza was described by the Beeb as massive. Well Hamas has made the same decision that Arab and "Palestinian" leaders have made time and time again since 1947 - they have chosen war over peace - the Hamas spokesman says his organisation was ready for "a long war". I am sure he will get one as will the people of Gaza who are cheering these clowns on - so perhaps after 67 years it is time to finish it, the Arabs of Palestine do not want peace, they never have, so give them the war they crave and bay for in front of the medias cameras. It will not go well for them, exactly as the Leader of the Muslim Brotherhood in Kuwait, Tareq Al-Suwaidan stated to the people of Gaza on Al-Aqsa TV on August 1st 2014:

"You received the death you wanted. We have no problem with death. We are not like the children of Israel".

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 02:07 AM

"Greg F. - Date: 07 Aug 14 - 05:37 PM

Source for 07 Aug 14 - 04:42 PM , Boo??

HERE:

#BBCtrending: Are#GazaUnderAttack images accurate?

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 03:15 AM

"Why They Fight: Hamas' Too Little Known Fascist Charter"
From 'The America Interest' magazine edited by Adam Garfinkle.
"Garfinkle was a speechwriter for both George W. Bush's Secretaries of State, Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice. He was editor of The National Interest and left to edit The American Interest magazine in 2005."
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 03:32 AM

So tell us all Christmas what bits of the Hamas Charter has he got wrong or misrepresented?

Any further down the track on getting someone, anyone from Hamas to tell you the borders of Israel in this Two State solution these wankers say they fighting to achieve? According to their founding charter there aren't any.

Tell us Christmas why Hamas has once again opted to fight, with the obvious backing of the population of Gaza? I am sure by now that both Hamas and the population of Gaza know that if you chose to go to war then people are going to die, in their case lots of them - but hey - their choice they were offered peace and rejected it.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 07:33 AM

A Muslim Brotherhood leader in Kuwait, Tareq Al-Suwaidan, said Muslims "hate" the sons of Zion. He called for Muslim mothers to nurse their infants on this hatred and to plant it in Muslim children's "souls," so that the new generation "will erase the (sons of Zion) from the face of the earth." Last week, Palestinian Media Watch documented a similar Hamas sermon calling for the extermination of Jews.

Death for Allah is our most exalted wish!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 07:51 AM

Jimmy boy,

"Who knows, maybe Israel will listen to your suggestion that "all Muslims are less than human" and they should "push on in Gaza and either drive them into the desert or wipe out the ones who won't go".
Do you really believe that statements like that are representative of the Jewish people?"



I made no such suggestions, and you are a damned liar for saying so.

Since YOU are the one making these statements, I would have to ask if you were Jewish to answer your question

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 07:57 AM

"So tell us all Christmas what bits of the Hamas Charter has he got wrong or misrepresented"
Didn't say he had.
Brucie, you, Keith, Mike..... and Israel, have all represented opposition to the terrorist behaviour as 'Antisemitic' - you have all linked it to being Jewish - O Bearded One is particularly vehement on the point.
In the light of this deliberate policy, is hardly surprising that the victims of Israeli terrorism should see 'The Jews' as being the cause of their suffering.
I have made my abhorrence of Antisemitism clear - there is little, if any evidence of it in these discussions, but we remain 'Antismeites' - if that's the way you see it, it must be a 'Jewish' problem rather than one of a rogue State which has betrayed the Jewish people.
I suggest you take a look at yourselves for the causes of the spread of Antisemitism.
"Tell us Christmas why Hamas has once again opted to fight"
Just told you, please try to pay attention you bleeding oik - they see little point of returning to the ghetto without some guarantees that things will change.
They couldn't hope to win the fighting war, but haven't they just won the battle for hearts and minds.
It would be a betrayal for them to allow things to return back to where things were.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 07:59 AM

Thus unencumbered, UNRWA has ensured its own survival by transforming itself into the patron of Palestinian grievance, conferring refugee status down the generations, an unusual practice. The agency's website reports that since 1950 its roster of registered refugees has grown from an original 750,000 to 5.3 million—a sevenfold increase, all eligible for the UNRWA dole. For the Palestinians, this has been ruinous, fostering within an otherwise enterprising culture a crippling sense of entitlement and dependency.

The U.N. Handmaiden of Hamas

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 08:03 AM

Jimmy boy,

"you have all linked it to being Jewish - O Bearded One is particularly vehement on the point."


Actually, I merely quote from your dear friends in Hamas- THEY are the ones who STATE that they want to kill ALL JEWS.


YOU are supporting them, therefore YOU are accepting that goal.

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 08:06 AM

"Source for 07 Aug 14 - 04:42 PM , Boo??"

"A little-known division of the corporation called BBC Trending says that many of images being shared on social media under the #GazaUnderAttack hashtag are in fact several years old, and in some cases from different conflicts."

Doh!

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 08:23 AM

https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AqhTaNadeGV6H.zY6_ESqKKbvZx4?p=hamas+rockets+shrapnel&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-74

Subject: RE: BS: Small hope for Israel/Palestine
From: bobad
Date: 08 Aug 14 - 10:38 AM

International media outlets, including The New York Times and the BBC, have raised serious questions regarding Gaza civilian casualty figures as recorded by health officials both in the Strip and abroad.

The outlets maintain that the hard data does not support the notion that the Israel Defense Forces is engaged in "indiscriminate" killing of unarmed residents in the Palestinian enclave, as was suggested by several international leaders over the past month.

Citing figures released by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, the BBC's head of statistics Anthony Reuben found that the number of civilian men killed in the fighting outnumbered the number of women by a factor of nearly 3.5:1. According to the UN, 725 men were killed in the conflict as opposed to 214 women. When the 216 confirmed "members of armed groups" were included in the figures, the disparity grew even larger. Israeli military officials said 750-1,000 Hamas and other gunmen had been killed in the fighting as of Tuesday, August 5.

"If the Israeli attacks have been 'indiscriminate,' as the UN Human Rights Council says, it is hard to work out why they have killed so many more civilian men than women," Reuben noted dryly.

IDF indiscriminately killing in Gaza? Data says no