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BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008)
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Subject: BS: RIP Charlton Heston From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:38 AM news item You can pry this gun out of my clod dead hands! |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:39 AM COLD dead hands! |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Apr 08 - 02:01 AM Yeah, but he was kind of a clod when it came to the NRA. My mom, the psychiatric social worker, had a favorite joke about the guy: A psychiatrist dies and when he gets to the pearly gates St. Peter greets him enthusiastically. "I'm so glad you're here! We need your help!" "Why, what's wrong?" the doctor asks. "God thinks he's Charlton Heston!" SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston From: Barry Finn Date: 06 Apr 08 - 02:01 AM He was a good actor, I'll give him that. As a younger man he was not only a good actor but a good character too but as he aged, '"I have a face that belongs in another century," he often remarked,'" well he had a mind that belonged there to. Enough said 'bout the dead, from me that is. Barry, not a friend of the NRA |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Apr 08 - 02:20 AM The only movie of his I rather enjoyed was Planet of the Apes. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Apr 08 - 02:47 AM I was in Ben Hur myself. He played Ben.....I played her...........Okay, its an old Groucho line but what the hell....... I could find no salvation in his later life as he became the King Toady for the NRA but he almost (ALMOST I say, only almost) got my pity for the Michael Moore interview. MM showed him to be the piece of crap he was, but also showed us the pathetic old man he'd become. There was both glee and sadness in seeing him so humiliated. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: alanabit Date: 06 Apr 08 - 02:56 AM I know lots of good people, who have some rotten ideas. Both of my parents spouted racist cliches. I know what you mean Spaw, but I like to feel that the compassion wins out in the end. I wouldn't like the ten most unpleasant facts about alanabit blasted out all over Mudcat. It seems likely that Charlton Heston grew up in another age, with some ideas, which have had to go. I try to remember Heston for Ben Hur and hope that he was one of the good guys. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Folk Form # 1 Date: 06 Apr 08 - 03:19 AM I didn't like his pro-NRA speeches, either, but a of people shared his views, so.... Doesn't mean they are bad peole. I thought teh Michael Moore interview was a disgrace. When it was obvous that Heston had the beginnings of senility, the interview should have been chopped. He was a good actor and made some decent movies, we should remember him for that and be grateful he was spared a future life of increasing senilty, which is horrible. I have it in my family and have seen its effects. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Apr 08 - 03:35 AM A sad day. He was a wonderful actor and his stance for the freedom to hold arms is what he will be best remembered for. It doesn't matter how many pressure groups spring up ranting on about banning firearms, guys like Heston and Bush will always see them down. That's what you have to admire about the Americans. One incident in the UK and every anti gun mouthpiece gets to have his say. More people are killed in one month in the UK my drunk drivers than are killed in a year by firearms. UK penalty for drunk drinking, twelve month ban (reduced to six months if you go on a court appointed "I admit I was a bad boy" course). |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: John MacKenzie Date: 06 Apr 08 - 04:08 AM Good actors do accents to fit their parts, Moses and Ben Hur et al, were not Americans? All he ever did was play Chuck Heston, in a series of big budget movies. Sorry, don't wish to speak ill of the dead, but while I could excuse his wooden acting, I can never forgive him his espousal of guns. You can troll all you like GG, but cars are necessary to everyday life, while guns are not. G |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: kendall Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:16 AM So, we are minus one average actor and one gun worshipper. As Utah Phillips said, "So many Christians, so few Lions." |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Mooh Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:29 AM kendall/Utah...Agreed, well put. He would have been a better character actor than leading role but either way he was more a caricature. He used his celebrity, that in itself a caricature, to support the right to arms. I didn't respect him for this in life, and won't in death. In the end he's a tragic figure though. Wonder how long it will be before there's a self-worshipping Hollywood movie about him. Peace, Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Fiolar Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:52 AM Certainly a bad year so far for the film world. So many of the greats have passed on. I liked Heston a lot and many of his movies were great. Will never forget his role as "El Cid" and the dozens of others he made not forgetting the vastly underrated "The Omega Man". Farewell big guy. Say "Hello" to Moses, General Gordon, Buffalo Bill and Andrew Jackson among many others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Beer Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:47 AM Never appreciated his gun totting stance but hay!, many did. I happen to love his movies. Lots of action. Also liked "Soylent Green". R.I.P. Beer (Adrien) |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:16 AM First of all, as per usual, GG takes the extereme in her "banning firarms" knee-jerk reaction... I don't know any gun control advocates who are for banning firearmas... As fir C.H.??? "Planet of the Apes" was my favorite but "The Ten Commandments" was a close second... As for his life's works??? Hey, he stood up for some good things and, IMO, he stoof up for some dumbass right winged stuff, too... The stood up for 1st ammmendment rights and he was supporter of civil rights when it wasn't popular... He get's credit for that... As for Bush standing up for anything??? Nah, he is a wimp... The only time he stands up is when he has thugs behind him... I've challenged him to 5 rounds in the ring over the Iarq War... I might have to take a pain shot in right arm before steppin' into the ring but that challenge still stands... I whup him and he ends the Iraq occupation... He whups me and I'll kiss his butt at half time of next years Super Bowl... But nevermind Wimpy Boy, C.H. was the real deal... Just a tad off course in the later years... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Charley Noble Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:25 AM Well, he was a handsome looking feller with a deep voice. Not a particularly good actor other than acting himself. As Bobert says, he did stand up for civil rights when it wasn't popular to do so. He was also an exceptionally bad writer, I having tried to plow through one of his nautical novels; this surprised me because Heston was a deep-water sailor and had a wealth of experience to draw on for to base a good story. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: goatfell Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:35 AM I think it's sad whenever anyone dies, however I don't like guns RIP Charleton |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: eddie1 Date: 06 Apr 08 - 11:47 AM BBCi in their "In Depth" pages have alengthy obit where they manage to say on one page that in "The Greatest Show On Earth" he played the ringmaster and on another, a trapeze artiste! He played the circus owner! Eddie |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Apr 08 - 12:20 PM There are many voices here against the private ownership of guns. Can you for once allow others who support the right to own a firearm hold an opinion. Always some mouthpiece telling us their right, we are wrong. I respected the man and his commitment to the freedom of ownership of firearms. Talk until you go blue in the face, but the law will always support the freedom to hold arms. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: katlaughing Date: 06 Apr 08 - 12:26 PM Oh, fuck off, gg. Quit your trolling, esp. in an obit thread. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Apr 08 - 12:49 PM The role I will always remember him most for was in "Planet of the Apes". "Get your filthy paws off me, you damned dirty ape!!!" Chongo might never have forgiven him for uttering that line except for one thing. He said it to a gorilla. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 06 Apr 08 - 12:55 PM Rest in Peace... |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: goatfell Date: 06 Apr 08 - 12:59 PM i hate people that dob't give us their names/nicknames Guest but you have the right to your views as did Mr Heston TOM |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:02 PM Fine, GG... Start a thread on the topic but to continue using threads about other stuff to further your poliriacl views is like somewhat disrespectful of the forum... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:13 PM Respect for a fine actor... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaZzsiVB2Zg "Do not judge so that you will not be judged." Matthew 7:1 |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:14 PM "I have a face that belongs in another century." Haven't we all? |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Little Hawk Date: 06 Apr 08 - 01:45 PM For sure. My face definitely belongs in another century, and I've known that for some time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: fat B****rd Date: 06 Apr 08 - 02:02 PM I liked some of his big production movies, all named above, but "A Touch Of Evil" and "The Big Country" were pretty good. RIP MR. H. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Skivee Date: 06 Apr 08 - 02:20 PM He played Long John Silver in the Ted Turner production version of Treasure Island. It was a surprisingly subtle performance. The name I use in the band (Long John Skivee) was prompted by this film. Although "Bowling For Columbine" made some good points, I think that Moore's treatment of Heston was unworthy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: gnu Date: 06 Apr 08 - 02:30 PM RIP Chuck. And, as far as all the bullshit about weapons, weapons won you your freedom. Be careful when you say weapons are bad. The meek shall inherit the earth, but, not withouts weapons. Check out some history. Check out all history. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Peace Date: 06 Apr 08 - 02:35 PM When only the bad guys have weapons, then good guys are gonna get their arses kicked. I'm sorry he died, but I was never a fan of his as an actor or NRA speaker. That aside, I hope eternity is kind to him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Slag Date: 06 Apr 08 - 04:45 PM IMHO Mr. Heston was a top rate actor. He drew upon the dynamic that was himself. Heston walked with MLK and has supported ALL the rights enumerated in our U.S. Constitution. He understood, as the founding fathers understood, you don't have the First Amendment without the support of the Second Amendment. Good men abhor the thought of taking another's life. They make laws to criminalize murder and to deal with the aftermath of murder. And while good men hate the thought of taking lives the wise man understands that there ARE murders about and being armed is both a deterent and a remedy for murderous assualt. Charelton Heston was both a good and a wise man. God bless him and he will rest in peace. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Art Thieme Date: 06 Apr 08 - 04:46 PM Touch Of Evil was a fine film. But my favorite film of Heston's, altghough not a favorite with the critics, was The Mountain Men. Art Thieme |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: CET Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:08 PM You're wrong, Bobert. From the very beginning, this thread has contained attacks on Charlton Heston's views on gun ownership. I can't see why Guest shouldn't weigh in with an opposing opinion. Kat's response was grossly out of line, which was a surprise since I never figured her for one of the liberal thought police. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Big Mick Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:44 PM Art, I absolutely loved that film! Many folks don't know that the script was written by Heston's son, Fraser. Casting Brian Keith and Charlton Heston as grizzled mountain men was masterful. As an actor, it is easy to judge him by the blockbuster, wide screen, epic, part of his career. I thought he was wonderful in Ben Hur. But there was much more that came later that was very well done. While I certainly don't like the way the NRA years are portrayed, and the way he allowed himself to be scripted during those years, still this is a man of strong political views, and who did more than sit and tell people he supported civil rights. He was a public figure, and an actor, during a time that supporting civil rights could have been very costly to him. But he took the principled stand, and should be admired for that. As to gun rights, you all know that I am a gun owner, and supportive of the right to keep and bear arms. I disagree mightily with the implication by Bobert that gun control advocates aren't trying to do away with private ownership of weapons. And I think Edmund hit it on the head when he called folks on their attack on this GG (btw, it's not the one you think). From almost the beginning Heston's stance on guns has been a part of this thread. Defending his stance was a legitimate response and in no way an attempt to troll. He lived an interesting life. All the best, Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:57 PM CET, GUEST, guest has a nasty habit of interjecting her politcis into any thread... Check her out before saying I'm wrong... I could start a thread entitled "Your Favorite Teddy Bean" and GUEST,guest would somehow figure a way to blast Obama and/or supporters of Obama... Its getting purdy danged irritating... But don't believe me... Re reread what kat told GUEST,guest... These are the sentiments of many people here... I didn't put the blast on Charlton Heston and for the most part no one else did until yer buf GUEST,guest tried yet again to change the coversation about C.H, from our thoughts on his life anf his passing into a thread on gun control... That was GUEST,guest's decision... Not mine or anyone elses... Go to some other threads and then come back and tell me I'm wrong... This is an obnoxious pattern by someone who won't even come out from the sniper's den... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:03 PM Thank you Big Mick. Heston was an accomplished celebrated actor first and foremost. In his later years he spoke openly in the defence of the rights of those who wish to own a firearm. There are those who oppose this viewpoint and clearly they think their views take president over others, well they don't. A gun is like a lot of things, it can be dangerous in the hands of an idiot. A car falls into that class too, as does the contents of the average kitchen drawer. Once you express an opinion on a thread here as I did here regarding my admiration for Heston's stance, you get called a troll. Call me it all day if you want, it won't change my opinion.I only wish we had such an individual in the UK to speak for the responsible gun owners. Our nanny state would not allow it. The sunflower seed eaters cry all the way to government. I repeat, call me all the troll/f***ers you want. I speak as I see it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:09 PM Bobert, I respect Obama, he allows others the privilege of free expression, you could learn a lot from him. A little nasty of you coming in after Mick's excellent post and throwing in Kat's remark. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Rapparee Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:20 PM RIP, Charlton. I've never liked extreme positions, but I know that towards the end you were suffering from Alzheimer's and I can make an exception for that. (Does this mean that God really is dead???) |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: pdq Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:21 PM Charlton Heston said, a few years back, that anyone not familiar with his work should see Will Penny. It's probably called a Western but it is also a good character study. Heston called it a "small movie" as opposed to the Hollywood spectaculars he was famous for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: RangerSteve Date: 06 Apr 08 - 07:55 PM He was a darned good Cardinal Richeleau in both the Musketeers movies, too. Rest in Peace. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 08:50 PM Free expression, GG, is not the same as "free association"... Ahy do you feel compelled to interject yer politics in every thread??? You are coming off as some reformed smoker who has to tell everybody who will listen how you've quit smoking, 'cept in yer case it your politics... There are ample political threads going right now where you can spout off what ever... But it's becoming real tiresome having just about every you polute every thread with yer need to be seen as the bigest and badest rebel/revoulionary/radical... Yexs, it's tiresome... I don't mean to be hurtfull... If you were registered I'd rather be having this conversation behind the barn... But you are not selling anyone here because of the inappropiateness of yer postings on threads that have nothing in common with yer views... Maybe you jus' don't ahve a clue what I am saying here... I related a story on the MLK thread a few months ago when I was a community organizer and brought some friends from bothe Black Panther Party and the White Panter Party to Richmond... But a few folks from each party met with some of the folks who I had been working and at some point during the meeting one of the Black Panther guys took me aside and said, "Hey, man, you are talkin' to people. You need to talk with people." Yeah, I was hurt by that but after a few days it set in an' I understood what the guy said and good part of it is layin' back and choosin' when to strike, when to speak... Timing is everything... Yeah, I was anxious to let folks know jst how radical I was and was mssin' what realities of their lives... I'm not sure that you understand what I am saying here... Okay, lets just use Ho's words, "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day"... I'm sure you take this as condesending but that is not the intent... You are a smart lady... You have a lot to add here in Mudville... But you need to check yer radicalism at the door... Play by the rules... There are folks here who are as equally radical... With resumes to back their radicalism up... And, umlike you, are transparent... My history is confirmable... Maybe yers is as well but the point here is... ...chill... We are all big kids here... It's perfectly okay to post something that doesn't come with politics drippin; off it... Don't matter the thread... Some invite drippin' politics.. Others don't... If this was George Bush or Dick Cheney who had died then, okay, but this was a movie actor... Bottom line, respect the thread... There are plenty of other threads where you can you can interject... Oh, and for the record, yes, you have a pefect right to say what ever you want and the Mudcat community has a perfect right to pass by your posts... If that is what you want then keep firin'... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Midchuck Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:07 PM You can troll all you like GG, but cars are necessary to everyday life, while guns are not. It is not "trolling" to express disagreement with another poster's beliefs, even if the first poster thinks of his beliefs as divine revelation, unless it's done in nasty terms. It may well be trolling to accuse anyone who disagrees with you of trolling. Peter |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Beer Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:19 PM You know what? This thread has got to be very sad. Very very sad. Actually disgusting is more like it. It's a R.I.P thread remember? |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Stilly River Sage Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:24 PM There was an interesting remembrance of Heston tonight on All Things Considered. Bob Mondello and Gloria Hillard stories. You can read them or listen to them. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: frogprince Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:51 PM I wondered when someone would mention Will Penny; I can understand Heston referring to it as he did. He had a right to be proud of that one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: pdq Date: 06 Apr 08 - 09:54 PM Do you think he comes back or not? |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:18 PM If some one is way off topic, it trolling... I have invited GG to start a guns-right thread and am still waiting... This thread si about an actor, his life and his death... I beleive that most folks here understood that... Again, I think it was disrespectful of GG turning Charton Heston's death into a soap box for her/his political issue de jour... There are plenty of threads for that... Just MO, of course... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Beer Date: 06 Apr 08 - 10:53 PM Bobert, you have been around for a long time and I have to say I enjoy reading your post. I also have to say that I enjoy reading Guest guest post. I'm usually a listener and try to understand both sides and gain knowledge by both opinions. C.H. took a stand on an issue in my opinion that will never be settled. There are many as I have stated above that are against and many that are for baring arms. Guestguest, I'm disappointed that you don't join as a member. Here I have to agree with many. If you don't join than you are a troll. You have made some very interesting observation and started threads that have prove very worthy indeed. What is holding you back? Why not join? The nly rerason i can come up with is that if you joned than you would feel you can't express yourself as freely. Mr Heston to me was a great man. To others he was not. Fine. But let us wish him farewell and sympathies to his love ones that he left behind. Beer (adrien) |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Slag Date: 06 Apr 08 - 11:57 PM Ok Bobert, so it's OK for you to interject YOUR politics anywhere and everywhere YOU want but not GG. GG is right to do so because Heston WAS a political figure and a brave soul who took on issues that were NOT POPULAR. I mentioned MLK and now I'll mention the NRA because Mr. Heston was President of that organization for quite a while. Nobody was scripting his lines but himself. Why don't you, Bobert, go onto some conservative website and express your opinions there and see how well you fare? It's easy preaching to the choir but see how it floats in the other half of the country. This thread, as I read it, was meant as an obit for a famous actor and activist. His life was his life and it included his stance against gun control. To not acknowledge that would be dishonest. I'm really sorry you did not agree with Mr. Heston but, IT WAS HIS LIFE. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 02:00 AM Charlton Heston on Global Climate Change |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Mr Red Date: 07 Apr 08 - 02:58 AM Cars necessary to everyday life? No they are not - like addictions we as a society have made them important. We are addicted. As for Mr Heston. He entertained as an actor, and apart from his gun addiction he had some very personable traits. A struggling actor buttonholed him and asked for advice - he got into conversation and offered to do an evening at a local theatre The Roses Tewkesbury. I dunno what it did for the actor but the town and the theatre sure benefitted. All for no fee. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:19 AM Bobert, I have attended many funeral services in which minister reflected on all aspects of the life of recently departed. That was all I was doing on this thread. Charlton Heston was a fine man, I reflected on what I admired him for. Next time I want to comment on the life of someone who has just died, I will ask for your permission to do so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Georgiansilver Date: 07 Apr 08 - 03:28 AM Charlton Heston lived a full life and gave pleasure to many a viewer Charlton Heston died. Rest in Peace. Your fame lives on" |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: gnu Date: 07 Apr 08 - 04:30 AM I apologize for my poor judgement in the choice of words I posted. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Black Hawk on works PC Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:40 AM Heston was mainly known as an actor & for that he will be sorely missed. I was never a great fan but at least knew any film of his would be watchable & free of offensive, abusive language (unlike this forum). Re. the slagging of GG GG was not the first to bring up the NRA stance - indeed the opening post misquotes the famous 'pry from cold dead fingers'. The next few posts refer to his NRA stance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Linda Kelly Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:47 AM I am a world away from his political views, but I remember once seeing him recite Stephen Vincent Benet's poem ' American Names' -it was at a concert in the grounds of Salisbury Cathedral and I believe it was for The Princes Trust. I went to the library and wrote out the poem -I still have that piece of paper, and read it virtually every other day. It is an abiding memory. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:51 AM Black hawk thanks for pointing that out. A lot here depends on who submits the comment. The comments above from members regarding my post say more about them than they do about me, including the one containing swear words from Kat. I admired the man, I only pointed that out and they swooped on it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 08 - 09:08 AM Well Slag and GG, if you go back and reread my original post here I made every effort to respect the man and *not* interject my politics... Yes, of course I made reference to the gun issue but only is a passing manner, not a full frontal assualt... And as for me interjecting I do make every effort to keep my politics within the framework of the thread... Yes my views are quite radical at times and they tend to piss off some folks but I make every effort to keep within the confines of the thread... Am I always succesfful??? Maybe not but know that I at least am making the effort... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 09:16 AM "Yes my views are quite radical at times and they tend to piss off some folk" You are fully entitled to express your views. Why don't you extend that privilege to others ? So on an obituary thread we should not speak about what we admire about the deceased ? |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: kendall Date: 07 Apr 08 - 09:35 AM Whenever I see that phraes "I don't like guns" I'm curious. To me, it's like saying, I don't like chain saws or snow blowers. Some years ago it was in the news that two little boys were poking around in the attic of an old house, and they found a civil war rifle. Of course they fooled around with it and it went off killing one of them. That gun lay untouched for 100 years until some incompetent person misused it.I don't fear tools or weapons, I fear fools who don't know how to handle them. Every Police officer carries a gun in plain view. Is it rational to be afraid of that holstered gun? I have had a gun for many years. I carried it when I worked in law enforcement and no one is worse off because of it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: SINSULL Date: 07 Apr 08 - 09:46 AM A fifth rate actor. Even my brothers, lifelong members of the NRA, were amused at his over the top defence of firearms. Bowling for Columbine - in my opinion, a disgrace. There is nothing funny in taking advantage of a confused old man. RIP as should we all. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: john f weldon Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:23 AM All these nice words for a thug? Geez, let him burn! |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Midchuck Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:31 AM All these nice words for a thug? Geez, let him burn! Now, THAT's a troll. (Or do the rules of this list provide that any conservative-oriented statement is a troll and no liberal-oriented statement is?) Peter (a member of the radical middle). P. S.: I agree with Kendall on this point. Does that mean I got to go in the cellar? |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Mrrzy Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:34 AM Well, at least this is somebody that a) I knew was alive and b) I figured would die soon. For once. Bon voyage, and I hope they have guns in your heaven. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:36 AM >>Bobert, I have attended many funeral services in which minister reflected on all aspects of the life of recently departed. That was all I was doing on this thread. Charlton Heston was a fine man, I reflected on what I admired him for.<<< The above is not true at all, In fact you said very little about Heston and then started spewing your own ill-founded and unsupported opinions on Gun supporters. I did quote his most famous line of recent years. Not to start a Debate on gun control, but because I thought it Ironic fitting. But I did not claim that it would be fitting behavior for a minister at a funeral. I would ask you to please identify all ministers you have seen who start political debates at funerals by distorting the positions of others in the debate and denigrating the intelligence the other people in the room. I for one would not want such a person attending a loved one's funeral, much less officiating. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 08 - 11:51 AM Tahnk you, Jack... That's the way I see it also... Yeah, folks like to jump all over the ol' hillbilly and that's fine so long as they understand that I will defend myself when I think I'm right and have been known to admit and apolofize when I'm not, which of course is very seldom (lol...) B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Big Mick Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:08 PM I don't like trolls. I don't like folks that manipulate the conversation for perverse reasons. Here is what GG said: There are many voices here against the private ownership of guns. Can you for once allow others who support the right to own a firearm hold an opinion. Always some mouthpiece telling us their right, we are wrong. I respected the man and his commitment to the freedom of ownership of firearms. Talk until you go blue in the face, but the law will always support the freedom to hold arms. That comment is totally within the context of what was established as the basis of the conversation. Many of you want the ability to denigrate his stand, or pull the old "he was a good guy, but his views on gun control....." routine. One cannot discuss Heston and his life, without dealing with the last years, and his NRA time. You all know I would whack THIS GG, or any other, if they were violating our rules. This was not a violation, nor was it a troll attempt, IMO. Now, could we get back to discussing Heston and his life, as opposed to GG??? Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Donuel Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:25 PM They pried the gun from his cold living senile hands years ago... for the sake of the nurses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Donuel Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:35 PM On radio I heard Reverend Wright's "God damn America..." followed by Heston's Planet of the Apes finale.."God damn them, God damn them to Hell". |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:40 PM No Mick HERE is what she said to start the fight and make it a debate about her opinions rather than a remembrance of Heston. >>>From: GUEST,Guest Date: 06 Apr 08 - 03:35 AM A sad day. He was a wonderful actor and his stance for the freedom to hold arms is what he will be best remembered for. It doesn't matter how many pressure groups spring up ranting on about banning firearms, guys like Heston and Bush will always see them down. That's what you have to admire about the Americans. One incident in the UK and every anti gun mouthpiece gets to have his say. More people are killed in one month in the UK my drunk drivers than are killed in a year by firearms. UK penalty for drunk drinking, twelve month ban (reduced to0 six months if you go on a court appointed "I admit I was a bad boy" course).<<< One sentence about Heston, Then HER opinions on "Ranting" and HER opinion about banning fire arms. HER opinion about The British. In some ways all of that is fair game in Mudcat discussions, but it is hardly the type of things a minister or even a respectful guest would say at a funeral. Would you go to Heston's funeral and start pissing on the British? Did you ever see of hear Heston pissing on the British? All of that Bile and bullshit is guest's own and has nothing to do with Charlton Heston or his death. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:44 PM Mick, Guest is not being attacked for her opinions, people are pushing back because every time she expresses an opinion she attacks someone else or their opinions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Big Mick Date: 07 Apr 08 - 12:54 PM So..... Jack ..... care to explain why it is so important to emphasize the word "HER"? You have no idea if this poster is a him or a her. I don't either. But if you were really reading the posts, you would see that this GG is not from the US. And I can tell you for certain that it isn't the other GG from Minnesota. Your obsession with that one, has caused you to assume something that the posts show isn't true. Not the same person. And this phoney piety piece, as if all the posters that would support your position were respectful, when they were not. It is tiresome. And the use of the term "bile and bullshit" is hardly respectful in an obit thread, is it? I repeat, it wasn't GG that introduced the gun talk. In fact, when one reads your opening post, there was not one shred of respect, but there was a misspelled quote about guns. So apparently the originator or the thread (that would be you, sir) had intended it to be about this man's gun views. Sometimes............ Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Donuel Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:02 PM I remember Columbine not merely for the carnage at the High School but for Charlton Heston holding his NRA rally meeting in Columbine the day after the shooting and name calling everyone who thought it was in bad taste to have such a rally there a mile from the High School just a day after the shootings. Staunch is not what I would call his behavior that day. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 01:05 PM Mick, I am not piously saying that I am acting as I would a funeral. I most certainly am not. I am not claiming an piety at all. I don't mind this person, whoever it is expressing its opinions. I don't give a flying fck where it is from. It is claiming that it is acting like a minister at a funeral that bugs me. Sometimes you just have to call bullshit bullshit. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Big Al Whittle Date: 07 Apr 08 - 02:07 PM I really love that version of Treasure Island with him as Long John Silver. He really gave full measure with that role - he treated a role that is usually pantomimed to death a real shot of reality. Great cast: Olly Reed as Billy Bones, Vincent price as Blind pew; that bloke out of American Psycho as Jim. The version of A man for All Seasons that he did was truer to the Robert Bolt play, but Paul Scofield, and the remarkable cast of that film:Orson Welles, Leo McKern, Wendy Hiller, Corin Redgrave had really made too deep an impression. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: DougR Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:05 PM I got to know him quite well when I worked at the National Endowment for the Arts in Washington, DC. He was a member of our governing body, The National Council on the Arts. He was a true gentleman and I liked him very much. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:25 PM It not just this thread, Mick... It's a pattern and I have been calling GG down every time he/she/it uses threads about other topics to infuse her politcis... WhenMartin did this it hyjacked threads and pissed off everyone... Now GG is doing it and folks are beginning to call her on it... This thread isn't about guns... It's about Charlton Heston... Yes, it is appropriate to, in passing, make mention of his ionvolvement with the NRA but to use an entire post to rail on the subject, for or against, violates the spirit of this forum... Have I done it in the past??? Yeah, I have... I think just about everyone here has but we do, at the very least, try to follow some protocall, reagrdless of how wound up we might get on various subjects... That ios the issue... Not guns... That what I told GG in my initial complaint here... I told her/him/it to start another thread if she/he/it felt like railing for or agaisnt fun ownership... This is a case of manners and courtesy here... It ain't like I'm a hall monitor here but I will continue to call GG down for overstepping the spirit of threads and I've recieved plenty of PM's thanking me for defending the general rues of this joint by which 99% do our best to follow... GG has no right to come in here, gust or nonguest, and set her own rules... That is my opinion and I'd bet it the opinion of just about everyone here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Slag Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:41 PM Thank you Bobert. Well said and in so saying, you retain your opinion(s) intact and demonstrate that you are, indeed, a gentleman. And, after which GG should have let it lie. The quote, "... from my cold dead hand, Mr. Gore..." Was from a speech, I believe an opening address to an NRA convention. Mr. Heston, Donuel, when he realized that he had symptoms of early onset Alzheimer's made an announcement to that effect and he stepped down from his position at the NRA. Nobody pried anything from his hand. He was always the gentleman. He was also a very humble man who was thankful for the opportunities he was afforded in his life. He loved his wife dearly and too, his children. It bothers me that so many are filled with hatred, spawned by one issue that they can't give the man his due. One lacks focus when they attempt to blast every area of some one's life over a single issue. In logic this is the fallacy of the hasty generalization. What the are really doing is telling something about themselves. The difference, Donuel, in the two quotes is that Mr. Heston's words were from a script in a movie where he portrayed a character. He was paid to portray this character and to utter those lines. And IN THAT STORY the subject of the condemnation was not the United States of America; it was to fanciful "talking gorillas". Rev. Wright's words were his OWN. They were heartfelt and shouted from a pulpit. A pulpit, I might add, that should have been used to honor the Prince of Peace, the model of forgiveness. Do you see the difference? Juxtaposing these two statements is not fair to either man. I am surprised that you were so impressed by such a hate directed attempt to manipulate prejudices and emotions. But, then again, maybe I shouldn't be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 08 - 05:56 PM And thank you, Slag... I'm not sure if you were around during the Martin Gibson era but he made this place miserable... He highjacked just about every thread that he could... It got so bad that I asked Joe is he could be crinminally investigated for his behavior here in Mudville... Noe I am not elevating GG to that level because GG isn't even in the same league... But GG is like becoming Martin-Lite... That was a joke... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Big Mick Date: 07 Apr 08 - 06:11 PM Fair enough, Bobert. I think that is good policy. We will call everyone who injects their politics in a thread. That ought to work well. I maintain that Jack set the tone when he made his first post. Lord knows it feels odd defending one of the GG's, but the fact is that the tone was set from the beginning. As to others writing you PM's, I have no way of if that is so, but I will take your word for it. But the majority can often be the worst dictatorship, when an opinion runs contrary to them. This person, whoever the hell it is, did not start this, nor were they out of line. And given Jack's initial post, they were in the spirit of the thread. I am done discussing, but you all feel free to knock yerselves out. Remember, we will now monitor for when folks inject their politics in threads...... Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:01 PM Yeah, that's fair, Mick... If it isn't a political thread for someone to post a purely political post is outta order, regardless... I haven't seen anything like GG since Martin Gibson... JtS just fired back... Does that excaue JtS??? NO, but he didn't fire off the 1st volley... GG did... That is the point here... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:05 PM Mick did you just set Mudcat Policy? Didn't you talk to the other moderators? No wonder it is so difficult tell what the rules are. Are there actual rules for RIP threads vs Others? Are they written down some where? I am not sure that I did inject politics. I didn't mean to I just quoted the man. From a speech I am sure he was proud of. I did not say that the quote was bad or good. It is simply what i thought of when I heard that he was dead. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:27 PM Correct me if I am wrong, but when I expressed my admiration for Mr. Heston it was as an actor and for his public stance in support of those who wish to hold ownership of firearms. NOTHING ELSE. By God Bobert you can twist it, "GG has no right to come in here, gust or nonguest, and set her own rules..." I never came on the thread to set rules as you put it, are you saying you are now appointed by other members to challenge my posts ? I would be grateful if you would not make comparisons with me and MG (the guitar loving anti-semantic). You are not qualified to speak about me as you don't know me.Glad at least someone else made a little boy of you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Big Mick Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:36 PM Apparently the tongue in cheek nature of my post was missed. Jack, your "I only quoted..." is the kind of denial that children do. Your "cold dead hands" reference was clear in its implication. Now I really am out of this thread. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Slag Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:51 PM GG. Why not start a thread wich challenges the powers that be, whose guest you are. This is certainly not hte thread for it. I may or may not agree with your view but please, not here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 08 - 07:59 PM Listen GG, I ain't trying to win "the point" here but I've called you over and over on various threads about your obiter dictumary tendencies to overpost to threads... If you have a bone to pick then start a new thread... This ain't some free association forum where folks can just wander in and out of the themes of the various threads... All I am asking is that you make an attempt to stay on topic... We all know how you dislike Obama and anyone who supports him but we don't expect to open threads that have nothing to do with him only to have you bring your biases against him and his supoorters into those threads... No one went ballistic on C.H. over his NRA aqctivities until you devoted an entire post to bashing anyone who you might might have thought would disagree with you on gun control... Yours was an unilaterial assault and changed ther tone of the thread... You can take this critiqe or not... It's not meant to be mean spirited or win-loose... If you had n a handle I would be talking with you privately and not here... I am sorry if this is hurtfull... When I came here many years ago I was alot like you... Full of opinuions and full of then desire to lay them out... I came in as a registered member and I took a lot of heat in the form of PM's... I mean, I got my butt chewed and chewed and chewed... It ain't like changed any of my opionions to make them more digestable because I've always been purdy friggin' rowdy here... But I learned to ***respect*** the forum... I guess that is the beef I have with you, GG... Yeah, politically, we probably aren't all that far apart... But this ain't about policis or politics... It's about appropriateness and protocaol... Hey, I couldn't care less if you want to rant about this or that... Start a thred... But, for gosh sakes, check the obirter dictum at the door... Respectfully yours, Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:01 PM Slag, sorry about the thread drift. I would not start a controversial thread such as that, no point. I already got F.ed at above for nothing by a lady who deletes harmless comments, note her own still stands ! |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:17 PM Bobert, "We all know how you dislike Obama" sorry I never expressed a dislike for that gentleman. If you send one of your pm's to a moderator, I am sure they will confirm I have not entered into any debate about him. Reason being, I know sod all about American politicians, and to be honest, I care less. On another thread you made it apparently clear you were going out to deal with me, what was it you said ? oh yes I remember "rope a dope". I really do not want any disagreement with yourself or anyone else here, an exchange of views yes. If you plan to challenge me on every thread as you said, fine with me. But I will express opinions and viewpoints, as I did earlier on this thread. Yes I did respect the gentleman this thread was started for. Name calling and the use of four letter words by ladies really don't bother me. If you or someone else confuse me with someone else who holds a dislike for Obama that is your problem not mine. Respect returned and thank you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Little Hawk Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:24 PM The problem, you see, is that there are (appparently) several Guests who are signing themselves "Guest". Every one of them then appears on the forum as "GUEST, Guest". They are thus indistinguishable from one another. People assume that they are all the same person. This is kind of like several different people wearing identical gorilla suits and crashing various social occasions incognito and all getting blamed for whatever any of them ever does! Damn silly, isn't it? ;-) I see no possible remedy for this situation except if the "Guests" stop all posting under the same label...and how would we ever know if that happened? We wouldn't. Let's try, instead, to build a better mousetrap or discover what happened to Judge Crater. There would be some chance of success. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Guest Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:35 PM Thanks Little Hawk, I just discovered that there after Bobert accused me for the umpteenth time about talking about Obama. I know sod all about the guy. I seen several posts on a thread from another Guest. If anyone confuses me and them, that's their problem, it doesn't annoy me in the least, I had wondered about the hostility and the bad language used above towards me. Apologies again for thread drift.
-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator- |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:49 PM But... ...wich Guest, guest just posted??? Maybe the anser is having Guests having to stick with handles, like GuestA, GuestB... Oh, this hurts my head... We've been here before... and before... and before.... I think I'm done with Charlton Heston's passin'.. May the poor man rest in peace... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Jack the Sailor Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:56 PM Guest, I am sorry that I accused with you with another poster who uses the same name. For the sake of clarity, I would like to suggest that you chose another name. Because of the behavior of the the other one it will be difficult for many not to see your posts through the filter of the other's behavior. I think that The comparison with Martin Gibson comes from the totality of posting under the name GUEST, guest throughout the forum. I still don't think that you acted like a minister. But I am sure that if you had used another name then you would have found much less oppositions to the positions you took and the words you used. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Bobert Date: 07 Apr 08 - 08:59 PM Amen................................. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: katlaughing Date: 07 Apr 08 - 09:34 PM As others have noted, if you do not want to be mistaken for a notorious, obnoxious poster who uses "Guest,Guest" it would be best to choose something else for a consistent guest name OR join up. It's free and you won't get spammed. And, all of this could have been handled by PM, though if you had a membership or a unique (well as unique as one can be when posting as a guest) guest name, then it most likely would not have been an issue, anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Riginslinger Date: 08 Apr 08 - 12:16 AM Well, what ever they say about Charlton Heston, I think he was right about guns. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Slag Date: 08 Apr 08 - 01:06 AM I want to know what is so difficult about registering here as a member? If you want to join in the discussions or brawls, as they may be, why not join? The price isn't to high (free) and you don't have to give them your social security number either. Then you'd have a name, uniquely yours, which just may communicate something about your self. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Charlton Heston Date: 08 Apr 08 - 05:50 AM Since the name is now available, I thought.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Mr Red Date: 08 Apr 08 - 08:47 AM he certainly was Right about guns, but being Right isn't correct - it is political. So we can agree on that much. But he was wrong about guns. Violence begets violence. Just as much as submissiveness begets violence. There is a better way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: DougR Date: 08 Apr 08 - 07:51 PM Not everybody, Mick, I realized immediately you had your tongue firmly planted into your cheek. Seems the thread kinda wondered off the subject didn't it? DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Big Al Whittle Date: 08 Apr 08 - 09:03 PM Not much about his acting, is there? He WAS an actor. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Jack the Sailor Date: 08 Apr 08 - 11:27 PM He was? No he was a right. He was a fine Moses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: Jim Dixon Date: 12 Apr 08 - 02:33 PM Naturally, The Onion had the perfect headline. |
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Subject: RE: BS: RIP Charlton Heston (5 April, 2008) From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 13 Apr 08 - 02:10 PM I remember first seeing him the in "The Naked Jungle" back in the 50s. It amazes me to realize that he probably only in his late 20s when he made that film. |
