The Advent and Development of Chanties

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 24 Aug 15 - 08:05 AM

Hi, Steve,

These are just addenda.

I am working on a book dealing with the early goings-on, up to about 1845. I prefer devoting the time to that rather than Mudcat housekeeping.

I have several conference/symposium papers. The latest is from the last Mystic Music of the Sea Symposium, and can be seen here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8MBMfZJUEBSLWVXdnFOcE5hS3M/view?usp=sharing

Most of what I have to say (though I hope to eventually say it better) about "Cheer'ly Man" is in this Mudcat thread:
http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=152560

I'm not too focused on "Cheer'ly" as such because I don't consider it part of "the chanty genre", but rather one particular shipboard working song that, I think, merely co-exited with chanties. I think it was practically in a class of its own, rather than representative of a genre or a wide-ranging body of songs. And I try to carefully distinguish my main topic, "the chanty genre," from a different topic, vocalizations or singing at work on sailing vessels. They overlap at times, but they aren't the same.

There is much more than port workers in the Gulf to consider. I consider there to be a wide-ranging base of an African-American style work-song paradigm or genre, connected by water indeed, but shared between such contexts as:
Squads of enslaved canoe/boat rowers
Black firefighting companies
Steamboat "deck" crews - firemen, deckhands, and roustabouts
Longshoremen
Cotton-stowers
Corn-shucking on plantations

Some of this activity introduced the genre to sailing ship crews before the Gulf ports were operating. I think the plantations and rivers of the Eastern seaboard of the US, which was then well connected to the Caribbean via ports at the mouths of those rivers, provided the first "layer" of chanty-singing to deep sea craft. We are talking end of 18h c, through 1830s.

I suggest some of the prior established customs of vocalizing at work in Anglophone ships, somewhat limited, primed them for acceptance of the chanty genre. I also think that a new found popular/mainstream appreciation of Black American music may have encouraged the adoption of chanties by non-Black seamen. Another factor was the advent of the lever windlass (discussed in my paper, above) by the mid 1840s.

Cotton-screwing remains, along with seafaring, the only of the above mentioned contexts where non-Blacks participated in chanty performance to a degree, and seems to have been a gateway to the shipboard practices. The cultural/ethnic map of the cotton-screwing is complex and varied. It started in the East (before the Gulf ports were established) and began with Blacks only. Enslaved and free Blacks (the latter who were a significant part of the population in the former French/Spanish parts of the Gulf) both worked. Slaves were "leased" out by their masters, so the pay was relevant to all. In New Orleans, Irish and German immigrants had begun to displace Black American cotton-screwers, and an all White (largely Irish) union of cotton screwers founded in 1850 excluded Blacks. But that is late in the timeline. I can't say at what point exactly, whether in the late 30's or the 40's that the Black-White balance shifted, but those years (end of 30s through mid 40s) looks to be when the next "layer" of chanty practice on ships was laid -- when transient White laborers were in most contact with the earlier-established practices of Black laborers. Things became very segregated after the U.S. Civil War, and shipboard chanty customs of European/White seamen would develop in their separate way.

In the big picture, I think shipboard work may have been the least significant context for chanty-singing. It was, however, a context where White people would become most likely to participate or observe it, resulting in that the history of chanties has tended to be told through the narrow lens of where White writers encountered it.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Aug 15 - 09:11 AM

So when's the definitive book out then, GS? I appreciate a lot of your research is on here, but in a very haphazard way.

You really ought to start a new thread. It must take those people on slow computers an age to download this lot.

If nothing else, how about a new timeline on mentions of shantying and in what contexts? I am getting the impression that the whole phenomeneon evolved from the workers in port in the Gulf. Which references if any appear to predate the Gulf influence. Is it still thought that British seamen used 'Cheer'ly Man' earlier?

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 21 Aug 15 - 10:59 PM

Re: Charles Nordhoff and his well-known observation of chanty-singing as a merchant seaman --

I was frustrated that I did not have the exact years of his account. After considerably more frustration and too-much time, I believe I have determined:

His observation of cotton-stowers' "chants" in Mobile Bay would have been in the autumn (say, October) of 1848, and his account of "Across the Western Ocean" (returning from Liverpool to Philadelphia) would have been November (or very early December) 1848.

He finished up his merchant sailor life in 1851 (afterwards being a whaler man for a couple years), but he notes no other chanties after that. He goes on to London, to Calcutta, Madras, Sydney, Canton, Mauritius, Rio de Janeiro, New Orleans… Much of his time in the eastern hemisphere he was in British vessels.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 15 Aug 15 - 07:04 AM

Addendum:

The "one reference" I mentioned in the last post, to cotton-screwers of Galveston singing chanties, came from a statement by Maud Cuney Hare, the daughter of the activist/businessman/politician Norris Cuney who had organized Black screwmen. So she must have been thinking of those let couple decades of cotton-screwing—her remarks come in 1924-ish. An excerpt:

Negro chanteys were sung by the crews of the West Indian vessels that loaded and unloaded at the wharves in Baltimore. Many of the old songs are those of the longshoremen who were employed on the wharves in southern ports to stow cotton in the holds of the ships. The custom still prevails of employing large gangs of both American and West Indian Negroes in the ports of Galveston and New Orleans.

[from _The Crisis_ vol 29, #?]

Cuney-Hare, a conservatory trained musician, would go on to write _Negro Musicians and their music_ (1936).

A curiosity is this letter from her to W.E.B. DuBois, editor of _The Crisis_, asking if he'd be interested in her writing an article for the magazine on "Songs of the sailor -- those of Negro origin."
letter to Du Bois, Nov. 1924

The passage above was simply quoted in The Crisis from Cuney-Hare's piece she mentions in The Christain Science Monitor. It may be that DuBois never took interest in a chanties article, and instead just borrowed the passage after reading this letter.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 15 Aug 15 - 12:33 AM

re: Cotton-screwing

I paid a visit to Galveston, Texas this summer to do some research on cotton-screwing. The reason for Galveston is that it seems the knowledge of cotton-screwing as a phenomenon is most alive there, as one might say, in the "cultural memory." For comparison, I also paid a (second) visit to the port of Mobile, and there it seems the local historians are hardly aware of it. Perhaps it is best known in Galveston because, in the last quarter of the 19th century, Galveston became the leading port of cotton export.

Unfortunately, Galveston's cotton-screwing enterprise seems to intersect little with the early history of chanties. We can surely imagine that chanty singing was practiced there, however the histories of cotton-screwing in that port are silent on it. (Well, I do have one reference from the early 1920s that refers to Black chanty-singing cotton screwers in Galveston, but that's it.) Nonetheless, and though the situation in Galveston was quite different from other ports (I'm thinking especially in relation to the ethnic composition of cotton-screwers), there was a little information to be had about the logistics of this type of labor.

As a point of reference, when cotton was screwed in Savannah in the 1810s -- see the journal of Capt. Carr a few posts above (which I also examined in Columbia, SC this summer)-- the work was done completely by enslaved African-Americans. Galveston as a port, of course, did not develop until significantly later: the late 1830s. The harbor was less than ideal. Until 1874, cargo had to be lightered out to ships. It also had to be brought into Galveston by rail, rather than down river as in Mobile and New Orleans. Before 1838, Texas cotton was actually brought to New Orleans.

It seems the cotton stowing work had hardly started by the time the Civil War upset it. However, after the War, the business grew back up to and then far exceeded pre-War cotton output. Again, this later (post-War) history is not very helpful to the study of chanties. Still, it is interesting to note what went on.

Allen Taylor wrote a M.A. thesis for UT Austin on this period (post-War until the decisive end of cotton-screwing), "A History of the Screwmen's Benevolent Association from 1866 to 1924", 1968. Taylor interviewed at least one retired screwman, along with some other people in the business.

What makes the scene very different is that White cotton-screwers formed a union right after the War, excluding the recently freed Black laborers. Black men were excluded from cotton-screwing in Galveston until 1882, and even after that a lot on conflict meant that Black cotton-screwers did not become "significant" in the workforce (after forming two unions of their own) until around 1900 -- the time when cotton-screwing itself was in major decline. Black cotton-screwers were only able to get some leverage in the late 19th century due to a labor shortage; some men were recruited from New Orleans. Galveston paid higher wages. The 4 regular screwers in a gang made about $6 a day, whereas the foreman (5th member, who arranged for the labor through local stevedore agents) made $7.

Each gang carried a pair of jackscrews. The screws weighed about 200 pounds. They were about 3 1/2 feet long, and the screw extended a further 2 1/2 feet. Along with the screws they had other tools, including a stout metal rod called a "dolley." This came into use when needing to sneak in more cotton bales after screwing one. That is, after screwing in a bale, in the space that was gained by the extension of the screw, one needed to insert another bale…without releasing the pressure. This was very tricky business, and the trick of it (in addition to the strength required) is what made cotton-screwing a specialized labor. Taylor describes the process of screwing in his thesis, but I must admit that it is difficult to follow. Several posts, the dolley, and the second jackscrew were needed to be employed, as certain angles, to make it all happen. The second screw in the pair was called the "tuming screw." Yes, tuming -- I suppose related to "tumid," swollen.

Screwing cotton resulted in a gain of 10-15%. Because having cotton screwed (i.e. rather than just placing the bales in there by hand) required more time and expense (to pay the screwmen), this margin was rather tight. Ultimately it was profitable to screw cotton, but the gains were precarious -- and ultimately became negligible as technology progressed.

3-4 gangs were assigned to work each hold. A small vessel might have 9 gangs working at a time, whereas the very large vessels (later) might have 25 gangs.

A transition to steel hulled steamships occurred in the 1880s. This was one of the big technological changes. Earlier, smaller vessels might ship out 1500 bales, whereas later ships could take 20,000.

The real death knell to cotton-screwing was the perfection of a high-density cotton press, by 1900. Up until WWI, there were still some "standard" bales (older level of compression) produced, and cotton stowing was still used for those, here and there. But eventually all bales were "high-density bales." These bales meant 1/3 more cotton could be stowed, and while at first the screwmen tried to screw them, eventually they realized there was no point to it. So, it only made sense to hand-stow (no screw), and the cotton-screwing profession became obsolete.

A few publications I encountered in Galveston used the photo we have seen (Charlie posted), from the New York Public Library. Here, for example, is from the city of Galveston's website:
http://www.galveston.com/juneteenthcottonjammerspark/
Incidentally, I went to look for the site of the Cotton Jammers' Park (this was the Black screwmens' union), exploring on foot, only to discover that this place, once a spot of community functions of Black screwmen, had long been built over with homes.

A brochure in the Galveston and Texas History center, from around 1915, also includes the photo, allowing us to estimate its date between 1900-1915.

Each cotton bale weighed about 500 pounds.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 23 Mar 15 - 09:42 AM

Hi All - This is Andrew from Cardiff, Wales, UK.
I've been researching my family tree and find that I come from a family of welsh shipwrights. My Grandfather, born in 1888 had an unusual middle name: Orenso. We have never been able to find the origin of this name (which apparently he was a bit embarrassed about). However there is a reference in this thread to a book called 'Around Cape Horn to Honolulu on The Bark Amy Turner 1880' which appears to refer to an original form of the well known chanty 'Ranzo' being 'Orenso'. Does anyone have the book (By Briggs?) and can help?

Many thanks
Andrew
(e-mail : [e-mail])

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Sep 14 - 08:23 AM

Worth listening to:


http://www.mediafire.com/listen/47n101di4sl8n69/Songs+of+the+People+4+-+A.L.Lloyd+-+Sea+%26+Sailors.mp3

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Aug 14 - 06:21 PM

> Man, you've just summed up one of the major points of my book

Oops.

Your diligent research, however, makes you the real expert.

Many of us are looking forward to your shanty book.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Aug 14 - 05:15 PM

It suggests to me that the influence of the increased size of sailing vessels after 1812, while significant, may have been less critical in the development of shanties than has been supposed. The tradition was already there, at least in South Carolina, and the bigger ships and increased commerce merely gave it the opportunity to spread out.

Man, you've just summed up one of the major points of my book - if I can ever get it out! …and with full acknowledgements, of course.

In the spirit of acknowledgements: though the South Carolina site does not credit it, my guess is that Prof. Michael Thompson, History, U Tennessee may have been the person to get the Carr journal excerpts in the remotely-accessible world of the Web. Thompson has worked on labor history in Charleston, and I hope one day we'll hear more from him about what he might have seen in archival material.


Although I haven't been very active writing on Mudcat lately, I think it was in the "Visuals of Chanties at Work" thread that I mentioned one of the main issues that has been driving my research lately. Which is, separating out the factor of "need" from the development of chanties. The common narrative, from "rise" to "fall," is based on what is supposed to have been needed. While practical requirements *were* an issue at various points, however, cultural custom was at least as important a factor. One does things a certain way because, well, that's how one does things. So the focus becomes the sites of cultural exchange / acculturation.

As has long been supposed, the cotton screwing trade was one of the sites. Up to a point, it was all slave labor, although not necessarily unwaged. Perhaps another point can be distinguished of when the labor became (in certain ports, thinking of the Gulf) waged ore highly, and practiced by Freemen of color. Then would be the point that White men entered the trade. This would be one of the notable professions, in Antebellum US, where White and Black men both participated. And though I believe the work gangs were segregated, White men taking up cotton screwing in the 1830s (? - by the 1840s) would be entering a space where "chanting" had been a long-established *custom*.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Aug 14 - 10:45 AM

Really a fabulous discovery, Gibb.

>they work & sing with all their might & whither hoisting hauling – rowing – or heaving at the Jack screw, they keep perfect time in all their motions – this gives them more force as they are united & simultaneous in the exertion.

This is one of the best brief descriptions of shantying I've seen, as well as the earliest by far. The whole passage suggests a well-developed shantying tradition in the Charleston area by 1815, 25 years after the rowing songs of 1790.

It suggests to me that the influence of the increased size of sailing vessels after 1812, while significant, may have been less critical in the development of shanties than has been supposed. The tradition was already there, at least in South Carolina, and the bigger ships and increased commerce merely gave it the opportunity to spread out.

As far as we know.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Aug 14 - 08:25 AM

No, I haven't seen those Porter articles.

I do have lots of "new" references in my notes that are not logged in this thread. However, I am SO behind on the work for the book related to this topic that I have felt guilty about taking any time to do things not directly related to it! I spent several weeks this summer just getting the references, bookmarked over the last couple years, into a bibliography.

Anyway, there is one that comes to mind that I'd like to share because it is quite exciting - AND available on-line to boot…

***

This comes from the journal of James Carr, 21 July 1815 ‐ 4 May 1816. It is part of the collection "James Carr Papers," South Caroliniana Library, University of South Carolina, Columbia, South Carolina.

Carr was a captain and shipping merchant, of Bangor, Me. The voyage covered in the journal was Bangor, Me., to Charleston, S.C., and then to Liverpool, England, 21 July 1815 - 4 May 1816, aboard the ship MARY.

Below is a portion I've picked out from a section of the journal provided by the archive in scanned pages from the manuscript.

All of the songs quoted can be connected to later chanties. This illustrates again (e.g. as in Hay's account of Jamaican stevedores in 1811) that these songs were being sung by African-American slaves along the shore/rivers before anything like them was recognized aboard deep sea-going English vessels. It is especially nice to fill in one more step for "Grog Time o' Day". The description of Charleston as like a town in the West Indies resonates along with the line from Hay's 1811 "Grog Time" reference in Jamaica. Important, too, is the early reference to a cotton-screwing gang.

Incidentally, another account of slave rowing songs in Charleston, ca1790s, had been one of the earliest entires in this thread.

N.B. Some spellings may be off from the manuscript, because this is from a transcription made by the South Caroliniana Library. I made a couple corrections myself.

//
I shall now give some little account of Charleston […]
[Page 2]
[…] – before the city on Coopers river is a large marsh covered with coarse grass or rushes – as you approach the city you appear on board your vessel to be higher than the streets. I was told by Mr. Crafts an intelligent gentleman, that the highest of their streets was not more than two feet above the higest tides ­ you frequently meet long narrow barges belonging to plantations or used for packet boats with awnings over the stern to defend the passengers from the intense rays of the sun rowed by 4, 6, & 8 negroes – plantation boats with produce poultry pigs &c for the market – larger river boats laden with rice ­ cotton corn flour wood &c almost all
[Page 3]
of them propelled by oars & managed by negroes, some few of them have [scurvy] looking sails – this appearance with the song of the negroes & the martial sound of a musical instrument about 8 feet long made of a bamboo by the negroes resembling in sound the French horn has all together a very pleasing effect – you are struck by the appearance of the vessels with their awnings. The wharves, the stores & houses built in the West India manner – flights of Turkey buzzards &c taking the tout ensemble –
buzzards, houses, stores wharves vessels negroes french, Spanish black & white inhabitants Charleston is much more like a town in the West Indies than our towns in the United States – As you approach the wharves the Song of the negroes at work greets your eer cheerfully from every quarter, I had so much of it while they were loading the ship, that it made such an impression on my mind as to enable me to give you a few specimens of the african working songs in Charleston:

Cheerly up, and cheerly down;
hey boys hey.
Cheerly up, and cheerly down;
ho boys ho.
Cheerly up, and cheerly down;
high land a.
Cheerly up, and cheerly down;
high land o.
…
[Page 4]
    Sing talio,
Sally is a fine girl,
    sing talio;
Sally is a good girl,
    sing talio, sing talio;
hoora, hoora, sing talio.
Sally in the morning, Susan in the evening;
sing talio, sing talio;
Sally is a sweet girl, Susan is a beauty;
sing talio, sing talio,
hoora, hoora, sing talio.

Ceasar should you like a dram;
Ceasar boy Ceasar.
Ceasar will you have a dram;
Ceasar boy Ceasar.
Ceasar is a smart fellow,
Ceasar boy Ceasar.

Tis grog time a day,
    huzza my jolly boys, tis grog time a day;
Back like a crow bar, belly like a tin pan,
    huzza my jolly boys, tis grog time a day;
Tis grog time a day; tis grog time a day.
huzza my jolly boys, tis grog time a day.

Tis time for to go, tis time for to go;
        Huzza my jolly boys, tis time for to go;
Haul away so, tis time for to go,
        Huzza my jolly boys, tis time for to go.
[Page 5]
Those words underscored is the chorus – those double scored are sung more loud & strong, in which the whole gang join with all their force, and generally much glee – the black having remarkable nice ears for music, are very correct in their time & pauses one & seldom more than two, repeat what they consider the words of the song, all join in the chorus, and whatever work they are doing when in gangs – they work & sing with all their might & whither hoisting hauling – rowing – or heaving at the Jack screw, they keep perfect time in all their motions – this gives them more force as they are united & simultaneous in the exertion – besides it makes their tasks go off hand more cheerily – for five days I had four pr of Jack screws & four gangs of five each at work on board the ships stowing cotton – I was in the midst of them – it often happened that they all had their throats open at the same time as loud as they cou'd ball – you may be able from the discription I have given you to form some opinion of the music – add to that the savoury smell that may be supposed to arise from twenty negroes using violent exercise in warm weather, in the hot and confined hold of ship and you may imagine what a delicious treat I enjoyed, I was happy for business was brisk – things went on well – I retired to rest satisfied and resumed my station the next day with pleasure – A negro alone, seems a solitary being – he delights to work in large gangs – is loquacious & appears perfectly happy.
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Aug 14 - 07:56 AM

OK, here are the rest of the Mulford references that I have in my notes.

Prentice Mulford (1834-1891) was born in Sag Harbor, sailed to San Francisco in 1856, where he settled a while and worked as a writer. Returned to New York City in 1872. He wrote for The New York Daily Graphic, 1875-81.

In 1871, he authored this piece in his hometown newspaper:

"Fifteen Years Ago: Reminiscences of San Francisco in 1856." _The Sag-Harbor Express_, 27 July 1871.

The clipper ship WIZARD, from New York, was tied up at the Valejo street wharf. The passage had taken four months. Mulford was one of seven Americans in the multinational crew. Mulford writes,

//
He [Mulford] gave the Wizard a final jump [pump?] out, to the tune of "Miranza Lee," then marched, hat in hand, to the cabin, was paid off at the rate of five dollars per month, and went ashore, just fifteen years ago.
//

So, "Miranza Lee" was a pumping song.

Next, in 1879, Mulford is writing anonymously as a theatre critic. Here he reviews several recent performances on the New York stage:

"A Gallery God's Reminiscences Past and Criticisms Present of the Stage." _The Daily Graphic_ [New York], 29 March 1879.

Meandering into an editorial-like passage, Mulford longs for an "American comic opera" practice to come about (as opposed to, for example, French operettas translated to English). Such would be, he envisions, filled with "the airs of forty years ago," such as "the old negro songs before the days of Christy…" etc. He goes on to say,

//
There's half a dozen old "shanty songs" that are never heard on shore, sung by sailors at work. Such as "The Bully Boat's a Coming," "Santy Anna," Miranza Lee," "Storm along, John." Take any of these chanted by a Blackball liner's crew as they were making everything taut in the dog watch with top gallant sails set and a lively breeze humming through the rigging, and there's music which would, with a little trimming and polishing, out-Pinafore "Pinafore."
//

Again it's "Miranza Lee"—evidently well-remembered from his 1856 voyage. "The Bully Boat's a Coming" is nowadays known also as "Ranzo Ray."

After this comes the reference, recently posted by Lighter, in the SF _Sunday Chronicle_, 23 Jan. 1881. In it, "Bully in the Alley" takes the place of "Bully Boat" in the list of four "Shanti songs." "Miranza Lee" appears to have been misspelled as "Mirama Lee." The Pinafore idea is repeated.

Finally, Mulford's autobiography, _Life by Land and Sea_, comes in 1889. I suppose it is the final, compiled version of what was earlier printed (in pieces?), because it has the same passage as the _Sunday Chronicle_ piece. But now it's "Miranda Lee"!

Here are the two passage, for comparison:

1881:
"For the first six weeks all the 'Shanti songs' [sic] known on the sea had been sung. Regularly at each pumping exercise we had 'Santy Anna,' 'Bully in the Alley,' 'Mirama Lee,' 'Storm Along John,' and other operatic maritime gems, some of which might have a place in our modern operas of the Pinafore school. There's a good deal of rough melody when these airs are rolled out by twenty or thorty strong lungs to the accompaniment of a windlass' clank and the wild, shrill sweep of the wind in the rigging above."

1889:
"For the first six weeks all the "shanty songs" known on the sea had been sung. Regularly at each pumping exercise we had "Santy Anna," "Bully in the Alley," "Miranda Lee," "Storm Along, John," and other operatic maritime gems, some of which might have a place in our modern operas of "The Pinafore" school. There's a good deal of rough melody when these airs are rolled out, by twenty or thirty strong lungs to the accompaniment of a windlass' clank and the wild, shrill sweep of the winds in the rigging above."

I would guess that "Miranza Lee" was perhaps "Eliza Lee"/"Clear the Track," as that was also a pump chanty.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Aug 14 - 07:41 AM

Yes, Mulford was the author.

"Miranda Lee" certainly sounds more likely.

Have you seen the articles "The Chanty Man's Passing Deeply Deplored" (1909)(Anon.) and "Drift from the Seven Seas," by Albert J. Porter (1911)?

They contain a few variant lines of common shanties.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: RTim
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 07:11 PM

Hi all,
This is such an Important Thread - how can we assure that it will ALWAYS be available to anyone interested in the subject? Can Dick Greenhaus turn it into a book?

Tim Radford
Ps - Even I have not read all of this thread, but should..........

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 06:07 PM

Lighter,

Thanks for that! It sounded familiar and as it turns out: The same passage (later) appears in Prentice Mulford's _Life by Land and Sea_ (New York, 1889). Perhaps Mulford was the author of the newspaper article/story.

HOWEVER: In Mulford's book, he has "Miranda Lee"! Sounds like a more plausible name, no? Perhaps it was a typo being corrected.

THE PLOT THICKENS: There is an even earlier reference than the one you posted, to "Miranza Lee." I'll try to post it later, but it seems likely composed by the same author again (even though it is anonymous).

"Miranza Lee" gives more to chew on. The mind goes to "My-ranzo-ray", "ranzo-ree", "marengo", etc.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 10:55 AM

That's "p. 1."

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 22 Aug 14 - 10:53 AM

Here's one of the few findable, early chantey references that haven't been posted yet:

"Sunday Chronicle" [San Francisco] (Jan. 23, 1881), p.:

"For the first six weeks all the 'Shanti songs' [sic] known on the sea had been sung. Regularly at each pumping exercise we had 'Santy Anna,' 'Bully in the Alley,' 'Mirama Lee,' 'Storm Along John,' and other operatic maritime gems, some of which might have a place in our modern operas of the Pinafore school. There's a good deal of rough melody when these airs are rolled out by twenty or thorty strong lungs to the accompaniment of a windlass' clank and the wild, shrill sweep of the wind in the rigging above."

I can't guess at "Mirama Lee." (Surely it wasn't "The Spanish Nobilio," noted for his damaged "miralto maree," or even a version of "The Loss of the Ramillies.")

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Jun 14 - 02:38 AM

Hello! It has been a busy last year for me with work/living concerns, and that means hard to find the time for this research. But I am working back into a research mode for the next several weeks, and in the process of rediscovering references I had stowed away. Here's one.

1903        "Old Corn-husking Song." _The Wichita Daily Eagle_. 1 December: 7.

The Wichita Daily Eagle for 1 Dec., 1903 which looks to have reproduced a Baltimore Sun article, entitled "Old Corn-husking Song." The anonymous author claims this song was "in vogue in Frederick county, Maryland seventy-years ago." That would make 1833 - which seems impossible to verify. Yet, these songs ended with Emancipation, so 1830s-50s would make sense.

The text of the song follows. The solo parts are improvisational in style. Aside from the first and last couplet, I've omitted the refrains that come after each line.
//
The Jack Snipe said unto the Crane,
    Whiskey Johnnie;
I wish de Lord there would come rain.
    Oh, Hilo!
The Wild Goose said unto the Swan,
The coming winter will be sharp and long,
They say old master's sick again,
He suffers many an ache and pain,
When my old master's dead and gone,
This old nigger will stop husking corn,
Oh, my master's good to me,
And when he dies he'll set me free,
We've possum fat and taters, too,
Good enough for me and you,
If you have cider good and strong,
I'll be to see you before very long,
The watermelons now in their height,
I stol'd two out de patch last night,
The nigger who finds the most red corn,
Will be de next leader 'sho as he's born,
The corn is husked, the supper is o'er,
And now we'll pull the other shore,
And all you niggers start tonight,
So you'll get home before daylight,
And now my friends I'll bid you all adieu,
I've done the best I could for you,
And remember that we niggers all,
Will be on hand next fall,
And now, my friend, again good night,
We husked that corn good and all right,
We stripped the husk off like a shirt,
    Whiskey Johnnie,
And left no silk that would ever hurt,
    Oh, Hilo!
        —Old Timer, in Baltimore Sun.
//

"Hilo" is familiar in this type of song. As for "Whiskey Johnnie": If it didn't originate there, how do you suppose it got there? In a sailor context, I believe the early reference for [WHISKEY JOHNNY] is Clark 1867.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 10:28 PM

Interesting discussion of "Ranzo."

"Round the Corn, Sally" is certainly similar to "Round the Corner, Sally."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 09:58 PM

Hi Doodlepip,

I don't believe there is any other source besides the manuscript from Cecil Sharp (of John Short) on which Tom Brown of "Short Sharp Shanties" based that rendition. If you're having trouble hearing what Tom sings, perhaps you could jot down what you do hear (or think you hear) and we can fill in the gaps.

Tom Brown (doc.tom on Mudcat) could possibly supply the words he sang—only a couple verses of which (correct me if I'm wrong) were actually sung by the chantyman John Short.

There must certainly be other parodies of "Dixie's Land" like this, too.

As far as sailor-generated parodies go, there is one in Hugill's unabridged _Shanties from the Seven Seas_. I don't remember offhand exactly what Hugill printed, but I red between the lines (always a perilous endeavor) and came up with this rendition.
Dixie

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Doodlepip
Date: 09 Jul 13 - 02:04 PM

Lyrics to "I wish I was with Nancy" from Short Sharp Shanties or any other source would be appreciated please

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 03:53 PM

No tune.

I share in the sentiment of your comment, Lighter.

I should have mentioned that I thought this was an interesting reference to share because Abrahams' comment about the sharing between corn-shucking and other "inland" work-songs with chanties has been one of the ideas on this thread. I think that when Abrahams did his Caribbean chanties research he may not have realized the extent of sharing, but then later when he wrote this book all about corn-shucking bees he was struck by the similarities.

Whether those overall similarities may have caused him to "stretch" in making some connections is a different matter.

Abrahams presented the "ju-ran-zie' song in the book before making the comment. When I saw the song, I actually immediately thought, "ranzo!" I may be stretching as well! - but looking at the material with similar "eyes" as Abrahams.

But then when I saw his endnote saying this was a "version" of "Reuben Ranzo," I was surprised that he would be so positive about it. I would leave it at the possibility that the phrase "ranzo" courses through a number of song choruses.

I believe Abrahams' rationale here goes beyond the immediate contents of the text in the example. He does also mention the "Grey Goose"—good catch, John Minear! He points out that "Grey Goose" and some other songs have a similar narrative in the solo lines. He considers this what he calls the "Marster-John" theme, about a slave owner trying to kill a slave, but the slave won't go easily. ...so... Abraham reads the story of "Reuben Ranzo," who is whipped and punished by the ship's "master" as being a "re-coded" version of what "might at one point have been a cante-fable."

The very short solo lines, like, "and then this happened. and then this, then this. then this" do seem to characterize Reuben Ranzo, Grey Goose, and the corn-shucking example. Abrahams, I believe, is juggling all the loose characteristics—poetic meter, narrative theme, "ranz" morpheme, working context—and making a connection. This is the type of thing I've been hoping to accomplish with this thread, etc....to read better between the lines after exposure to lots of data.

However, I do balk again when I read another of his statements. "It should be noted that almost all of the corn songs reported here are also widely found as sea chanteys." (pg191) Almost all?

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 09:45 AM

I don't see any resemblance to "Reuben Ranzo" except for the syllable "ranz" in the refrain.

Are the tunes similar?

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 07:50 AM

Hey Gibb, a very interesting connection. It, of course, brings to mind Leadbelly's "Grey Goose" song about "the preacher went a huntin'". The refrain there is simply, "Lord, Lord, Lord".

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 14 Apr 13 - 05:34 AM

In his _Singing the Master_ (1992), Roger Abrahams comments,

Songs with the same refrains and tunes as corn shuckings are found in cotton-loading and hoeing songs and sea shanties (including the songs above, "Ju-ran-zie," "Long Time Ago," and "It Rain, Boy, It Rain." (pg120)

Elsewhere Abrahams states that the following song is a version of the sea chantey "Reuben Ranzo"...

The song, from a corn shucking, comes in

Chenault, John Cabell and Jonathan Truman Dorris. _Old Cane Springs: A Story of the War Between the States in Madison County, Kentucky_. Louisville, KY: Standard Print Co., 1937.

pg.47

//
Old marster shot a wild goose

A hundred vices answered from all parts of the field and each mangrabbed a stalk for shucking.

Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.
It wuz seben years fallin'

The multitude of voices cried out as at first—

Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.

It was seben years cookin'.
        Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.

A knife couldn't cut it.
        Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.

A fork couldn't stick it.
        Ju-ran-zie, hio ho.

There was great harmony and perfect concord, although the men were scattered.
//

The "wild goose" in conjunction with "Ranzo" (?) is notable here.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 09:23 PM

1839         'Knickerbocker.' "Odds and Ends: From the Portfolio of a Penny-A-Liner." _The Family Magazine_ [monthly, Cincinnati] 4. Pp. 76-9.

The author is presumably a native of New York. Another sort of early musing on what might be called "folk music." Describes/praises the singing of Black stevedores in New Orleans. They are hauling by hand, the chantyman gathering up the end of the rope. Also makes reference to TD Rice's minstrel performances.

Pg 78:
//
…What I call unwritten musick, is such as has never been marked and dotted out on five straight lines—such as cannot be bought at Atwill's—such as is never thumbed by the young miss who yawns at her piano. Reader, if you want to hear unwritten musick, go down to the docks, find a ship from New Orleans, with a negro crew, sit down on a cotton bag, and you will hear, while she is unloading, airs that will haunt you for weeks afterward. You will see half a dozen stout fellows, with lungs like a boss chimneysweep, and wind like a bellows, pulling at the rope which raises the cargo from the hold, keeping time to the air which is sung by their ship-mate who coils away, and at the end of every half minute join in the chorus with a heartiness and power that is most edifying to hear and behold. Unwritten musick is to be heard everywhere. The shoemaker keeps time to it, as he pulls out his long waxed-ends; the porter walks to it; it regulates the strokes of the blacksmith, when the heated iron sparkles upon his anvil; the black cook hums it, as she turns the spit, and it is ever falling from the lips of the young, the lovely, the innocent, and the gay.
Musick of all kinds, written or unwritten, is to be had in this city [New York] in great quantities, and at various prices. It costs a dollar to hear Mrs. Wood sing at the Park Theatre; seventy-five cents to hear Mr. Rice execute "Jim Crow" at the Bowery; and for fifty cents we can hear "Sittin' on a rail" done by the great composer himself, at the Franklin.
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 08:35 PM

The following may not be directly relevant to chanties, but it is another example of the observation of Black boatmen's songs, with a text in a familiar topical style, and with a sentiment that reveals the author finds them to be both unusual and interesting.

1856        Lanman, Charles. Adventures in the Wilds of the United States and British American Provinces. Vol. II. Philadelphia: John W. Moore.

The writings come from tours in North America from the previous 10 years, i.e. since 1846.

Up the Chattahoochee River, through Georgia, on steamboat South Carolina, manned by Black slaves (who received some pay).

Pg149:
//
But I must not forget to mention the cheerful aspect which our steamboat presented as she came in sight of Columbus and paddled her way up to the levee. While the captain invited the passengers to assemble on the upper-deck the mate treated his negro boatmen to a drink of whiskey, which was a signal for them to march to the bow of the boat for the purpose of singing a song. There were twenty of them, and the ceremony was commenced by one of the fellows mounting the capstan and pretending to read the words to be sung from a newspaper, which he held upside down. Their voices were exceedingly good, but, instead of a regular song, the music was more of an incoherent chant, wild and mournful, and breathing forth such impromptu words as these:

"We's up the Chattahoochee, 

On de good old South Calina, 

Going to see my true love, 

How is you my darlin?

Now de work is over 

We's all coming home I"

To my unsophisticated ear there was more melody and pure sentiment in this native chant as it echoed over the tranquil waters, than I ever enjoyed in a fashionable concert room.
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 05:29 PM

1847        "Auto-Biographical Sketches, by a Merchant Sailor, Illustrative of the State of the British Merchant Service." _The Nautical Magazine_ 16 (Feb. 1847): 73-8

This is at least part 3 of a series, started in volume 15 (1846). I wasn't able to ascertain exactly what years are being remembered. If it's the West India trade, I am guessing 1830s (?). Likewise, I'm not sure if Bay of Kingston refers to Jamaica or St. Vincent or...

Local Black stevedores at a capstan are described singing in a unique way.

//
We arrived in the magnificent Bay of Kingston in the island of _____ after a very fine passage of twenty-nine days. Jemmy and his wife landed, with their traps, and took up. their abode with his relation, a planter, the mate was left in full charge, and I heard the master, among the last words he said, tell him to send to the consignee's store for any thing he wanted. We had no spirits ou board on the passage out for the crew, the master saying that it had been forgotten in Liverpool…
…
To enable the reader to understand the events which occurred on board our vessel, during our stay, it will be necessary to explain the custom of the trade as regards loading the cargoes of produce. The sugar and other articles are all collected at the various estates by small cutters and schooners, carrying from twelve to twenty hogsheads; at some places they are loaded at small jetties, at others, the hogsheads are carried to the droger singly, in a boat constructed on purpose, and called a Moses boat. When there is a strong trade wind, the drogers cannot get the produce loaded in consequence of the surf being too high to permit the Moses boat to land. They, therefore, take every opportunity of procuring sugar during favourable weather, and, in order that no time may be lost, it is the custom for the ship's crew to commence taking in sugar from the droger whenever she comes alongside the vessel, whether Sunday or week-day, day or night. These drogers are all commanded by white men, respectable and trustworthy, generally old mates of vessels; they are well paid, and looked on as a very respectable class; the crew is-always composed of negroes, and always numerous from the heavy nature of the work, the hogsheads weighing often one ton each. When the droger goes alongside to commence discharging, the greater port of her crew generally go on board to assist in heaving the sugars on board, which is done by the capstan, (or, at least, was done at the time I am writing of, now, the double winch is often used, and some vessels have regular cranes, which they set up on deck when taking in or discharging,) the negroes singing the whole time a variety of songs, and beating time with their feet. Many of the negroes are improvisatoires of no mean talent, and many a severe remark is passed while singing, upon both mate and master, if not favourites. On some of the beautifully still, calm, clear, evenings enjoyed in the tropics, when no sound is heard save the chirping of the cricket amongst the rigging, or the dull murmur of the distant surf, the sudden commencement of the negro song, on board some vessel in the bay, taking in sugar, would rouse the mind from its lethargy, and recall the wandering thoughts to the realities around.
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 05:12 PM

Moore's "Canadian Boat Song" (1804) is a fairly fancy melody, with a text to match.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 05:00 PM

The following remembrance of life on the Liverpool docks ca.1830, appears to quote [DRUNKEN SAILOR].

1855         Roberts, Edwin F. "Dock-side; Or, Liverpool Twenty-five Years Ago: A Local Sketch." _The United Service Magazine_ 2(319) (June 1855) 240-8.

Pg. 248
//
On either side a dock-gateman is winding open the enormous watergates. The tide is up to the level of that held in the dock; and, being high water, vessels are now coming in and going out. Here is one entering the gut outward-bound, heavily laden, and looking very trim and compact. Half a dozen men and a gigantic negro are heaving away at the capstan. The topsails are hanging in the brails. As yet she is short-handed, for the whole of the crew are not aboard; but here they come, drunk and sober, leaping and tumbling upon the decks. Some go below to sleep their orgies out, and some aloft and hither and thither—and the vessel's way is quickened.
She is not yet out of the dock gates, and till then the gateman acts as a sort of pilot to her—giving directions and orders in the quick, short, stern tone which is the habit of seamen, from the fact that whatever is to be done must be done instantaneously, at once, without debate or dispute.
"Ship ahoy!" the gateman sings out, while, with a merry tramp and an enlivening song, the capstan bars go round—with some such burthen as this:

"Shove him in the long-boat till he gets sober."
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 04:52 PM

Gibb-

Very interesting.

I'm sure that the dockyard workers who helped warp the ships in and out of the pools via capstan power also had their work songs. Some day we'll find someone who was interested enough to describe them.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 04:36 PM

Now this reference is a comment on slaves of African descent on the island of St. Vincent, in 1833.

1834[1833]        "Manners of West India Slaves." _Chambers' Edinburgh Journal_ no.101 (4 Jan. 1834): 387-8.

It's one of those pieces that shows a European's impression that Africans were making music "all the time."

The verse it quotes, one for entertainment, seems to have the same meter as a typical chanty, and the author says that the same type as shared between different contexts, including work.

The bit on nautical songs is interesting. Why would the author need to compare them to the "Canadian boat song" if, not far away, Newcastle sailors were also using capstan songs? I reason that there must have been something significantly different about the style of song.

I am not sure how to read "Our negro sailors, too, have their nautical songs..." Does me mean that they have songs in addition to the nautical songs of White sailors? Or does he mean that in addition to all the other Black songs I have been naming, they have nautical ones? The fact that he needs to elaborate on what that entails *may* mean the latter was intended.

//
A gentleman, resident in St Vincent's, has sent us a large mass of interesting original information on the condition and character of the slaves on one of the estates in that island; but from the controversial nature of the subject, we are prevented from inserting any portion of the details in our Journal, except that which relates to the manners and customs of the negroes.

"In their manners (says our correspondent) they are more polite than many would be inclined to credit:….
…They are passionately fond of music, and very readily acquire any tune they hear, turning every circumstance or important event into such rude verses as those sung on the day after my arrival at Grand Sable Estate, when they had holiday given them, and something to make merry.

'My Lady Brisbane gone away, 

Massa come and give us holiday.
    Huzza! huzza!'

And these you hear repeated over and over again, as they pass along the road, or down the cane-rows at work. On another occasion, when returning from an excursion, I was amused as well as surprised by hearing a negro boy as he approached me whistling, with great accuracy and precision, and at the same time with some melody and execution, the hunting-song in Der Freischutz. The adult negroes, when working in the fields, have their favourite songs, in which the whole gang unite, iterating or bringing down together a long line of glittering hoes in exact time; the delicate and attenuated voices of the females, blended sweetly and prettily with the full deep tones of the male performers. Our negro sailors, too, have their nautical songs, similar to the 'Canadian boat-song,' and ply the oar, or pull upon the hawser and capstan, adapting the measure to the slowness or rapidity of their movements. Nay, even the little Creole gang of children have some favourite choruses; and a leader, a little improvisature, who composes as he goes along, drawing from the stores of his own imagination, or forming rude verses from the ideas suggested by passing objects: first comes the solo of their leader, and then his little band of followers, joining in one simultaneous and merry chorus, beating the time with their hands or upon their little breakfast tins..."
//

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 04:22 PM

Scratch that! The passage in my last post seems to have been developed from a still earlier comment on Newcastle capstan song.

1818         Ford, James. "Suffolk Provincial Songs, Ditties, Healths and Proverbs." In _The Suffolk Garland: or, A Collection of Poems, Songs, Tales, Ballads, Sonnets, and Elegies, Legendary and Romantic, Historical and Descriptive, Relative to that County; And Illustrative of its Scenery, Places, Biography, Manners, Habits and Customs._ Ipswich: John Raw. Pp. 395-404.

//
Songs of trades, or songs of the people, are of very remote antiquity. The Grecians, says D'Israeli in his entertaining work, the "Curiosities of Literature," had songs appropriated to the various trades. There was a song for the corn-grinders; another for the workers in wool; another for the weavers. The reapers had their carol; the herdsmen had a song, which an ox-driver of Sicily had composed; the kneuders, and the bakers, and the galley-rowers, were not without their chaunt. We have ourselves a song of the weavers, which Ritson has preserved in his "Ancient Songs;" and it may be found in the popular chap-book of "the Life of "Jack of Newberry;" and the songs of anglers, of old Isaac Walton, and Charles Cotton, still retain their freshness. Dr. Johnson is the only writer I recollect who has noticed something of this nature which he observed in the Highlands. The strokes of the sickle were timed by the modulation of the harvest song, in which all their voices were united. They accompany every action which can be done in equal time with an appropriate strain, which has, they say, not much meaning, but its effects are regularity and cheerfulness, There is an oar song used by the Hebrideans, and our sailors at Newcastle, in heaving their anchors, &c. use a song of this kind.
//

A song? A single song? Or does he mean a *class* of song? Either way, it sounds limited. But interesting!

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 27 Jan 13 - 03:35 PM

Here's one from the early 1840s confirming Northeastern English sailors were doing some kind of capstan songs—no surprise, but to add the small-ish body of data. The author uses the word "chaunt" to encompass working songs.


1842         M., C. "Songs for the People." _The Musical World_ [weekly, London] 17(17) (28 April, 1942): 130.

Sort of an early essay on "folk song" (though not called that).

//
But if these chaunts have not much meaning, they will not produce the desired effect of touching the heart, as well as animating the arm of the labourer. The gondoliers of Venice while away their long midnight hours on the water, with the stanzas of Tasso; our sailors at Newcastle, in heaving their anchors, &c, use a song of this kind. A society, instituted in Holland for general good, do not consider among their least useful projects, that of having printed, at a low price, a collection of songs for sailors.
//

Hmm, a collection of songs? But were they work songs?

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 08:44 PM

Gibb-

I certainly agree with you that the stevedore work songs have been sadly neglected, and many were most likely the origin of deep sea shanties.

Anyone who wants to find some vintage photos of the stevedores at work should access the portal at the Library of Congress Digital Archives; the photos are available at high resolution, copyright free, and with a little editing are superb.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 26 Jan 13 - 12:34 AM

"Wild Goose Shanty" of AL Lloyd, a version of [HUCKLEBERRY HUNTING] or [RANZO RAY], appears to be developed from an item in W. Roy MacKenzie's _Ballads and Sea Songs from Nova Scotia_ (1928). MacKenzie collected it from Ephraim Tattrie of Talamagouche.

Did you ever see a wild goose floating on the ocean?
    Ranzo, ranzo, away, away!
It's just like the young girls when they take the notion
    Ranzo, ranzo, away, away!

Tune is given. The pitches are almost identical to Lloyd's rendition, but, unlike Lloyd's, the tune is in strict meter.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 11:43 PM

What I mean to say is that stevedores' chanties were more than sailors'. But their cultural context did not form a sort of "framed" picture that would lead people to consider them as a particular "thing" that formed a topic of discussion.

The pattern was to frame "sailors' songs" and then divide that into work and non-work songs, rather than to frame a category of worksongs that straddled the occupations of sailor and stevedore.

In many ways, the lives and identities of sailors and stevedores must have seemed irreconcilable. They did not both fit into the same "file." Yet their songs probably do.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 11:35 PM

I am starting to thing maybe chanties should not be called sailors' worksongs but rather, first and foremost, stevedores' worksongs.

If we think about it: Chanties were probably sung more by stevedores. On sea vessels, anchor-raising chanties would only be sung comparatively rarely—mainly in/out of port. So capstan/windlass chanties would not be sung so much, unless these devices were used as an alternative way to hoist yards and such. Halyard chanties would appear more often, but not constantly. Yes, there was pumping, too. It seems that most of the regular singing would be for the adjustments of sail direction and to tautness, i.e the so-called "sing-outs." And yet these sing-outs are not generally placed at the center of the concept of "chanties," and only a few authors on chanties give them much attention (for whatever reason—their relative "insignificance" is easy to imagine).

On the other hand, stevedores would be working "all day" to the singing of chanties. They would be closer in touch with the "land" songs that would inspire new creations.

And yet did many folklorists and such go out to collect songs from stevedores? There are certainly some studies, but are they not mostly studies of Black stevedores specifically? Other stevedore songs get mentioned only in the context of studies of sailors who heard them or also participated in that work. People didn't go out looking for retired stevedores to interview about their songs. (Stevedores, I suppose, did not figure in the national imagination of the "nautical heritage" of places like England.) While White stevedores were there, and I think of them in the observations of cotton stowing, no other observations of them are coming to mind, outside of mention in works about sailors.

It seems to me that this is a big gap, that probably shaped/skewed the narratives about chanties that developed.

In the least, chanties should really be called, IMO, "worksongs of sailors and stevedores." To define them first and foremost as just sailor songs may be a mischaracterization, that inadvertently marginalizes the stevedores' songs as something extra that one would include only when stretching the definition/discussion.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 08:15 AM

Wow! Elsie Clews Parsons collecting sea chanties in Nova Scotia. The last time I came across her she was down on the Rio Grande in New Mexico collecting Pueblo Indian stories. Very interesting find, Gibb.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Jan 13 - 06:06 PM

Fauset, Arthur Huff. 1931. Folklore from Nova Scotia. New York: The American Folk-lore Society.

This contains a couple stevedores' songs that seem to have been still current in the 1920s, Nova Scotia.

Fauset worked in the field with Elsie Clews Parsons.

Introduction dated 1925. States that the majority of material came from people with Black ancestry. Though popular perception of Americans might be otherwise, in Nova Scotia "the frequency with which one encounters the Negro is not unlike similar experiences in states like New Jersey and Pennsylvania." (pg vii)

Two chanty items, text only. Both were collected by Parsons. Pg. 119.

[BLOW BOYS BLOW] (mis-titled) looks like it might be similar to one of the Caribbean forms in the Lomax recordings. That is just my impression based on the phrasing of the refrain.
//
BLOW THE MAN DOWN

Yankee ship
Coming down the river
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

How do you know
She's a Yankee Clipper.
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

Knock him down
With a marlin clipper,
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

The shipper's [sic] got your grog,
In an old hand dipper,
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

The cook is a Swede,
And you want yer supper,
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!

The mate's arm,
Is just like a hammer,
Blow boys!
Bully boys blow!
//
The above was sung by Basil Robinson, 28, a longshoreman in Yarmouth. Sailor in West Indies, Atlantic Coast. "His parents are colored."

[ROLL THE WOODPILE DOWN]
//
HOLD THE WOOD PILE DOWN

Steamboat comin round the bend,
'Way down in Georgia
Loaded down with colored men,
Hold the woodpile down.
//

This was sung by Clarence Marie, 25, also a longshoreman in Yarmouth. Black man.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: John Minear
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 08:13 AM

Wow, Gibb! That is a lot of culling with some good results! I really appreciate this kind of sorting. Now to go and begin listening to all of this. Thanks for your good work. J.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 04:18 AM

hmm, I missed a few....Hope I didn't miss many more.

> Oh The Yellow Line Fall
[has harmony, minor key]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26587

> Oh Mother Dinah (cf. [MUDDER DINAH] in Hugill)
[Melody is curiously similar to preceding "Yellow Line Fall"]
Sing Sally O, fal-de-rol-day!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26588

> Adieu, Fare-You-Well To The Girls In This Town [GOODBYE FARE YOU WELL]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26594

> One Hundred Can't Pay My Way [HUNDRED YEARS AGO]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26590

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 02:03 AM

Last set,

Tobago

18 August, 1962
Pembroke (None), Tobago

>Island Day [HILONDAY]
Oh poor Miss Mary
Island day
Miss Mary gone a mountain
Island day
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27278

>A Long Time Ago [LONG TIME AGO]
Johnny ~Matto was a fisherman's son
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27266

> Blow, Boys, Blow, Boys
Nancy o, blow my diggy man!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27276

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 02:01 AM

Grenada

29 July, 1962
Six Roads (None), Carriacou (Grenada)

>Hi Lo Boys (cf. [HILO BOYS])
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25921

>Interview with Newton Joseph about sailor songs
Doesn't know "A-rovin".
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25919

>Long Time Ago (Caesar Boys)
Caesar, boy, I know you well
Long time in Mobile Bay
Bully, long time ago
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25920

30 July, 1962
L'Esterre (None), Carriacou (Grenada)
>Ride 'Em Trinidad (I) (cf. [SHINY O] [DOWN TRINDAD], Bullen's [SHENANDOAH])
{from Lighter:}
Brandy and wine, whisky and soda
       Hey-ey! Shiny O!
Shannydo, my bully boy, where you land that cyahgo?
       Right down Trinidad, brandy and wine!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25925

Ride 'Em Trinidad (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27038

>Yankee John (Stormalong) [YANKEE JOHN STORMALONG]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25926

>Hi Lo Boys (cf. [HILO BOYS])
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25927

>Steamboat Due Tomorrow (cf "Drive her captain"/ "And Away ay-ah", above)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25928

>Roseanna (cf. poor [LUCIANA], in Bullen, Abrahams)
The mountain so high and the valley so low
Poor Lucy Anna
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25930

>Shiloh, Boys, Shiloh (cf. [HILO BOYS])
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25931

>Yard-o, Yard-o (I) (cf. Abrahams, "Bell a-Ring")
Bell a-ring a yard o
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27034

>Yard-o, Yard-o (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27522

Ring Down Below (cf. Beck)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27035

Rosibella (I) ([ROSABELLA]; cf. Beck, etc)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27036

Rosibella (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27037

(early) August 1962
La Resource (None), Carriacou (Grenada)

>Blow the Man Down [BLOW THE MAN DOWN]
The Yankee give lumber to build collie so
Give me the rum, I will blow she away
Come blow, come blow, she bound to go
…she can't say no
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27107

>Shame, Shame, Shame For Uncle Riley (cf [BILLY RILEY])
Shame Jimmy Riley oh!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27113

>Long Time Ago (Caesar Boy) [LONG TIME AGO]
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27114

>Long Time Ago (Caesar Boys)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27039

>Roll, Roll, Roll and Go (cf [SALLY BROWN])
Roll and go Blackeyed Susianna
Spend my money the I can't get ashore
I want to get ashore and I cannot get ashore
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27115

>It's Time For A Man Go Home
It time, it time it time it time
It time for man go home!
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27116

>Roll My Riley
Seven long years I was courting
I was courting Mrs. Jemimiah
Hurroh, my Riley [grand chorus]
Immediately when I spoke to her she was down by the police station
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27040


5 Aug. 1962
La Fortune (Saint Patrick), None (Grenada)

> Roll, Roll, Roll And Go (I) (cf. [Sally Brown])
I spend my money and I can't get ashore
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27157

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25935

> Jean Jean-o (I) (cf. [DAN DAN], Hugill, Abrahams)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27159

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27603

> Sound Me Doctor, Sound Me
Sound me, I tell you, sound me doctor
My head to me elbow
Sound me doctor, sound me forever
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27163

> John Gone Away (cf. "Man o' War")
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25933

> Hurrah-lo, Put Me Ashore
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25938


7 Aug 1962
La Filette (Saint Andrew), Carriacou (Grenada)

>Hilo Boys, Hilo (cf. [HILO BOYS])
hilo, bully boy, hilo!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27231

> Going Away
We are going away to London town
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27232

> Fare You Well, Captain, Give The Men A Blow
Blow, blow, blow she away
Give the man a blow and let him go away
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27233

> Way-o, Way-o
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27234

>In My Own Native Land
In my own beloved land
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27235

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 01:59 AM

Next batch.

Nevis

10 July 1962
Newcastle (Saint James Windward), Nevis (St. Kitts and Nevis)

>Interview with Walter Roberts about chanties
Roberts seems to accidentally (?) say "shankey" a couple times, like he is getting it mixed up with "Sankeys" (hymns). Sometimes "k" gets substituted for "t" in Caribbean dialects; but is this significant?
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26690

>Do, My Jolly Boy (I) ([JOHNNY BOKER; cf. Abrahams)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26672

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27023

>(III)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26678

>Pull My Jolly Boys (I) [JOHNNY BOKER]
[done while pulling boat]
Long and strong, me hearty man
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25904

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26695

>Caesar Boy, Caesar (cf. Abrahams)
You look 'pon Caesar, you no look 'pon me
Caesar, boy, Caesar
Caesar drum a-go boom-boom-boom
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26671

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26687

>(III)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26696

>Bear Away Yankee, Bear Away, Boy (I) (cf. Abrahams)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26673

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26692

>Blow Boys Blow (I) [BLOW BOYS BLOW]
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26674

>(III)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26694

>Blow, Bully, Blow Boy (cf. [BLOW BOYS BLOW])
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26675

>See Me Nanny-o (I) (cf. "Boney", above; Abrahams, "Woman belly full of hair")
Woman belly full o' hair
See me nanny-o
I see it when I went there
See me nanny-o
Hurrah for de golden
See me nanny-o

You want to see a monkey kick
Bus' a pepper 'pon his prick
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26676

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26689

>Blow the Man Down [BLOW THE MAN DOWN]
Blow the man down in the hold below
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26679

>Yankee John, Stormalong (I) [YANKEE JOHN STORMALONG]
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26681

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26696

>Long Time Ago [LONG TIME AGO]
A long time me never know you, bully
A long long time in the hold below
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26683

>Bull Dog Goin' Bite Me (cf. Abrahams, Barouallie Whalers, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tM9ziMvI2ms)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26684

>Feeny Brown (I) (cf. Abrahams; cf. [SALLY BROWN])
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26685

>(II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26686

>Interview with Walter Roberts about chanties.
They sing when pushing the boats and when rowing.
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26690

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 01:22 AM

Next batch.

Anguilla

4 July, 1962
The Valley (North Side) (None), North Side (Anguilla)
>A Sailor Likes a Bottle-o [BOTTLE O]
So early in the morning the sailor likes a bottle O
A bottle of this and a bottle of that
And a bottle of very good brandy O
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27472

>We All Going Ashore
Captain captain where are you going
We all going ashore (cf. HIGHLAND LADDIE for cotton stowing in Hill 1893)
Going ashore but not to stay
We are going ashore this evening
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27473

>Dio, The Tree Fall Down
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27474

>Sundown, I'm Going Home
We hear Martin bawling now…
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27476

>Miss Nancy Went To The Corner
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27477

>Haul 'Em So Long
haul 'em ~below
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26564

>Sally Brown [SALLY BROWN]
Sally Brown, the bright mullata
O sing Sally
Sally belly ~
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26565

>Ivan Boy You'll Clear My Ground
dance all night till the morning come
oh oh oh!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26567

>Tom Gone Away (cf. [TOMMY'S GONE])
I wonder where my Stormy gone
Tom gone away
He gone on board of the ~mountain ship
Tom gone away
He gone away, the world don't know
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26569

>Peter, Remember You're Courting Her
Peter don't go ~
Peter!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26570

The Valley (None), North Side (Anguilla)

>Drive Her Home (cf. [BILLY BOY]. "Driver her home" also a popular song in Jamaica)
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26626

4 July, 1962
South Hill Village (None), South End (Anguilla)

>Boney (cf. [BONEY])
The Russians and the Prussians
Sing Nanny O!
Poor old Boney
Sing Nanny O!
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26598

>Bowline [BOWLINE]
oh, ho, the bowline hi!
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26597

>Early in the Morning, The Sailors like their bottle-o [BOTTLE O]
So early in the morning the sailors the bottle o
A bottle of rum, a bottle of gin
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26586

>Fight On, the American Bullies
Hurray, boys, hurray!
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26592

>Haul Away (cf. Hugill p. 357, from Harding - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZn7H_Ivlx4)
haul away, boys, haul away
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26596

>I Can't Go Long Pond
? – audio not working
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26777

>Yankee John, Storm Along ([YANKEE JOHN STORMALONG], cf Abrahams, etc)
O me Liza Lee
Who been here since I been gone?
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26595

>You Never Get a Sail
? – audio not working
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26775

5 July 1962
Copse Eastern (None), Anguilla (unspecified) (Anguilla)

>Island Deh [cf. [HILONDAY]
~ gone on the mountain
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26628

>Somebody 'Round
Everybody singing
Everybody calling
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26629

>Tom Gone Away ([TOMMY'S GONE])
I wonder where my Stormy gone
My Stormy gone, the world don't know
My Stormy to read and write
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26631

>Haul Away
I spend 40 shilling and I spend no more
Haul away, haul away!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27633

>Tell Mister Duncan I Want No More Coil Rope (cf. "Diana hey", above; [FIRE MARENGO])
fire 'em away, fire 'em away
~ steamboat
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26634

>II
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26635

>Interview with a performer about Tell Mister Duncan I Want More Coil Rope
A donkey or a hog with long hair… haul up a steamboat. "coil rope" means a fuss.
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26636

>Spit Fire, Throw Away
Boiling mother!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26637

>Interview with a performer about Spit Fire, Throw Away
"Spit Fire" is a boat going so fast that she is boiling the water
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26638

>We All Goin' Ashore (cf. another version, above)
We all going ashore but not to stay
We all going ashore!
Captain, captain lend me a boat
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26645

>Hombre
Say ~ahmbrey
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26646

>Sundown, I Goin' Home
Sundown, I never know
Sundown!
I hear Martin bell ring
Sundown!
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26647

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 01:09 AM

I've been taking a closer look at the recordings by Alan Lomax in the Caribbean, 1962. Not studying them in depth per se, but just trying to pull out all the chanties and get them logged for future reference. My notes on each, therefore, are mainly to "tag" them and make them notable for later comparisons, etc. As people know, Lomax's titles are often hasty and cryptic, so some sort of minimal notes are necessary.

I've not made any systematic comparison to Abraham's and Beck's collections -- just going on memory, being haphazard. Another disclaimer would be that I have listened to these in a poor acoustic environment, and haven't made too much effort to decipher words.

The main object is simply to have pulled these out of an enormous body of recordings, to gather together what might be relevant for further study.

Lomax (or the people at Cultural Equity) have used tags like "chantey", "sailor song" and "work song" without any particular rigor. I suspect Lomax's preconceived ideas about the chantey repertoire affected his methodology in collecting. There is one notable interview where he is awkwardly plying an interviewee for "A-Roving", and other times he asks vaguely about "pulling up the anchor" and "pulling on the main sheet" (!). Not so effective, I imagine, but of course Lomax's style, very useful in its own way, was to capture the whole "forest" and so miss a lot of "trees." I am generally considering them all to be chanties of some sort (or relevant to the topic).

Generally speaking, I think most of the work songs in the collection struck me as relevant. However, this goes only for the English language ones. There are work songs in other languages, too, but they sound appreciably different from "chanties" to my ear. So these are just *my* "picks"; someone else going through it all might find other songs of relevance. It's a start.

I apologize that I can't spare the time to make all of the links click-able. Sorry.

Here's the first batch.

Trinidad and Tobago

25 April 1962
Diego Martin (None), Trinidad (Trinidad and Tobago)

> Down Below (Mosquito And Sand-Fly) (cf. "Helluva wedding…", [BLOW BOYS BLOW])
sandfly married to baboon daughter…
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=27627

30 April 1962
Plaisance (Rio Claro-Mayaro), Trinidad (Trinidad and Tobago)

>And Away, Ah Ah
O Captain, captain, what's your cargo?
We are traveling to Dover,
And Away, Ah Ah
Travelling 90 knots an hour,
And Away, Ah Ah
Asking captain what's its cargo,
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26075

>Miss Nancy Oh
Oh, Miss Nancy have a wooden foot
Heave er away, miss Nancy oh,
Miss Nancy ey, Miss Nancy oh
Heave er away, miss Nancy oh,
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26076

>O Eliza (I) (cf. Carpenter collection: "Poor Little Liza," by JS Scott)
Miss Liza, Miss Liza we're going away tomorrow…
O Eliza, don't say so
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26072

>O Eliza (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=25816

>Tom Gone Away (I) (cf. "Man o' War" in Beck (?) etc)
I wish I was a fisherman boy aboard de man-o-war oh
Tom gone away, aboard a man o' war
From Dover to Scotland is 40 miles an over, boys…
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26074

>Tom Gone Away (II)
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26078

> Juliana
Ah Juliana, you say you never been there
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26077

8 May, 1962
San Juan (San Juan-Laventille), Trinidad (Trinidad and Tobago)

> Mister Ram Goat-O (I) (not a chanty, but of the course the melody of [HAUL HER AWAY]/Sally Rackett
http://research.culturalequity.org/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26293

18 May 1962
Rampanalgas (Sangre-Grande), Trinidad (Trinidad and Tobago)

>Diana Hey, Diana Ho (cf. "Helluva wedding…", "Down below" (above), [BLOW BOYS BLOW])
What you think they had for dinner?
Diana Hey, Diana Ho
Mosquito liver and sandfly liver (leggo)
Diana Hey, Diana Ho

Helluva wedding across the river,
Mosquito marry to sandfly daughter,
http://research.culturalequity.org/rc-b2/get-audio-detailed-recording.do?recordingId=26418

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:49 PM

I believe I was mistaken. A note penciled into my copy of O'Neill thirty years ago says that the opening bars of the reel "Green Fields of America" are just about identical except in tempo to the first line if "Haul on the Bowline."

In fact, you can listen here:

http://thesession.org/tunes/695

Coincidence? There's no telling.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:45 PM

Lighter, I also think that Drunken Sailor counts as a "real" shanty. But that is by my inclusive and ex post facto definition of "shanty." When I am thinking specifically of shanties as a body of songs developed in the merchant trade for double pulls on the halyards and heaving windlasses (my category, to be sure), I tend to qualify DS.

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:11 PM

I hear a vague resemblance between DS and RTOCA. It may simply mean that the use of one (presumably DS) unconsciously influenced some singer(s) to adopt the other for shipboard use. Or it may be completely coincidental.

Years and years ago I noticed an Irish reel that I thought was surprisingly reminiscent of DS, but I don't remember the name and can't say whether the resemblance would seem as striking today.

It was probably in O'Neill's collection (1903), so even if it's quite similar it could have been influenced by the shanty rather than the other way around. Most frustrating.

FWIW, my view is that DS counts as a "real" (if perhaps unusual)shanty because not only was it used as one and thought of as one by various shanty collectors, it seems not to have been sung in non-shanty contexts.

It's minor point, however.