Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Printer Friendly - Home
Page: [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19]


The Advent and Development of Chanties

Related threads:
ADD: Alabama John Cherokee (16)
What exactly is a sea shanty? (27)
What your favorite sea shanty? (92)
Shanty or Chantey? (197)
What is a Shanty (100)
Stories/Shanties of Hjalmar Rutzebeck (22)
Spanish sea shanties (59)
The origin of Sea Chanteys (129)
Help: What is a 'forebitter'? (58)
Info: The Shanty Book (Richard Runciman Terry) (25)
Lyr Add: Chanties of Capt. Tho. Forrest (15)
Lyr Req: Strike Up the Band, Here Comes a Sailor (8)
L.A. Times article on S.F. chantey sing (34)
Lyr Add: Huckleberry Hunting (Pumping Chantey) (51)
Deficit of Doerflinger on Wikipedia (15)
Annotated Bibliography on Sea Shanties (9)
sea shanties (110)
A Little-Known Shanty Collection (42)
French Shanty Site (8)
(origins) Origin: John Cherokee (59)
Lyr Req: One More Pull (41)
Chanties Helped Win World War I (25)
(origins) Origins: Yangtse River Shanty (32)
Sea Chantey Lyrics, MIDI tunes, & MP3's (54)
Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman (165)
Cowell Collection Shanties (4)
Tempo for Chanties (12)
Lyr Add: Windlass Shanty-Lincoln Colcord Rework (12)
Lyr Req: French sea shanties (40)
Happy! - July 30 (Doerflinger) (4)
Lyr Add: Larry Marr (shanty) (1)
Lyr Add: Windlass Chantey (8)
Lyr Add: Hi Rio, Randy-o! Shanty? (4)
Watered Down Shanties (33)
Who Said - Shanty worth 5 men? (30)
Sea Chanteys (shanteys) part two (3)
Lyr Req: Shantyman (Bob Watson) (14)
shanty sessions in U.K. (12)
New England Shanty Sessions (31)
Lyr Req: Whalen's Fate (Doerflinger version) (6)
Shanty Gathering Ideas for New England (26)
Lyr Add: Seafood Shop Chantyman's Song (5)
Chanties in Southern Maine (5)
Musical question (chantey types) (30)
Baggyrinkle - To Hull & Back (Shanty Festival) (58)
Lyr Req: Sea chantey:'...wouldn't do me any harm' (34)
help: Moby Dick shanty thread? (19)
Shantyfest at Mystic Seaport (3)
help a struggling student! - triple meter chant? (10)
Lyr Req: Seeking: 2 Shanties & 1 Traditional Folk (9)
Shanty background: Portland's Tunnels (32)
Rum, Sea Shanties and Women (27)
William Main Doerflinger 1909-2000 (15)


GUEST 11 Dec 12 - 06:11 PM
Gibb Sahib 11 Dec 12 - 05:35 PM
Steve Gardham 11 Dec 12 - 05:04 PM
GUEST,Lighter 11 Dec 12 - 03:32 PM
Gibb Sahib 11 Dec 12 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,Lighter 11 Dec 12 - 07:37 AM
Gibb Sahib 11 Dec 12 - 03:08 AM
GUEST,Lighter 10 Dec 12 - 09:12 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Jun 12 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Lighter 22 Jun 12 - 04:13 PM
Gibb Sahib 22 Jun 12 - 03:38 PM
Charley Noble 22 Jun 12 - 03:29 PM
Charley Noble 22 Jun 12 - 03:28 PM
Steve Gardham 22 Jun 12 - 02:56 PM
GUEST,Lighter 22 Jun 12 - 10:05 AM
Charley Noble 22 Jun 12 - 08:40 AM
Gibb Sahib 21 Jun 12 - 08:18 PM
Gibb Sahib 01 Oct 11 - 12:55 AM
Gibb Sahib 30 Sep 11 - 09:32 PM
Gibb Sahib 30 Sep 11 - 09:08 PM
Gibb Sahib 30 Sep 11 - 07:20 PM
Gibb Sahib 30 Sep 11 - 06:52 PM
Gibb Sahib 30 Sep 11 - 05:56 PM
Gibb Sahib 30 Sep 11 - 02:59 AM
Gibb Sahib 30 Sep 11 - 01:40 AM
Gibb Sahib 30 Sep 11 - 12:50 AM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 10:02 PM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 09:39 PM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 09:10 PM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 08:26 PM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 08:02 PM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 07:43 PM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 07:21 PM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 05:50 PM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 05:33 PM
Lighter 29 Sep 11 - 07:20 AM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 06:29 AM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 04:22 AM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 03:22 AM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 02:45 AM
Gibb Sahib 29 Sep 11 - 02:13 AM
Gibb Sahib 28 Sep 11 - 11:41 PM
Lighter 28 Sep 11 - 09:31 PM
Gibb Sahib 28 Sep 11 - 08:34 PM
Gibb Sahib 28 Sep 11 - 08:15 PM
Lighter 28 Sep 11 - 10:05 AM
Gibb Sahib 28 Sep 11 - 07:01 AM
Gibb Sahib 28 Sep 11 - 06:23 AM
Gibb Sahib 12 Sep 11 - 12:52 AM
Gibb Sahib 11 Sep 11 - 11:55 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 06:11 PM

Gibb,
These long threads take a long time to download even on my quite fast new computer. Have you considered breaking up the thread at some point to make it more manageable? It could have a tag of 'part 2' quite easily. I suggested this successfully to Richie on his thread. Just a thought.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 05:35 PM

What you say is true, Lighter. I simply take a more strict approach to reading the evidence in that I require some indication that a song was used as a shanty. Dating a song is one thing; dating its use as a shanty is another. The 1830s-ish existence of minstrel song "Coal Black Rose," for instance, which at some point was adapted to be a work song, does not suggest to me (n itself) that that sort of song had a life as a shanty in earlier days.

Steve, the info on "Chariot" suggests circa 1880s genesis of its shanty use. FWIW I group Chariot and DS in my mind (for right or wrong) due to their formal similarity to each other and their distinct difference from other songs that, and the end of it all, are grouped as "shanties." I can picture "Chariot" being developed as a shanty through the use of DS as a model. Just a thought.

The history of these two tunes is interesting, but at the same time (again a reflection of my personal disposition) I view them both as sort of "outliers" of the shanty phenomenon/genre. One is "too early," they other is too late!

"John Brown's Body" is a similar sort of song, I think, formally speaking.

Definitely shades of bagpipe tunes, I think, but I wouldn't limit it to that. The tune style could possibly be generalized to British Isles / Ireland music (?)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 05:04 PM

To me the DS tune is very close to 'Roll the Old Chariot Along'. How far back has that been traced? I'm sure there's also an old Scottish tune that is pretty similar. It has the smack of a Highland Pipe tune.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 03:32 PM

> the possibility that the composer had borrowed from a sailor song that was existing by the 1820s, or that some time after the 1820s sailors based a work song on a composer's popular air. Both seem plausible to me at this point.

If the "Three Little Indians" tune antedates Meineke's composition, it would increase the likelihood that the shanty already existed. If not, not.

It's probably impossible to show that the tune did *not* exist earlier.

The point is that there are two sources of evidence to suggest the shanty was in existence more than decade before Olmsted's voyage.

That isn't a very exciting claim, but it's about the best that can usually be made in 19th C. folk music research.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 02:16 PM

Sure...but we need more info! (Will we ever not? haha)

My perspective would be that the development of shanties and the origins of the song "Drunken Sailor," two different inquiries, do have a relationship...but not so relevant a relationship (this is where my opinion comes in) as some might feel.

I think the idea that the song DS is based in a previously known "air" -- in particular, one of a marching type....as might be played on fife/fiddle (the instruments of motivation in Navy ships) -- is very plausible.

In this case, the evidence is not, as Lighter obliquely suggests, that the song "Drunken Sailor" was "in use" i.e. as a shanty. Rather it presents the possibility that the composer had borrowed from a sailor song that was existing by the 1820s, or that some time after the 1820s sailors based a work song on a composer's popular air. Both seem plausible to me at this point.

That being said, I consider the *use* of DS as a shanty to be something appreciably distinct from the origin of its component parts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:37 AM

Well, if the 1825 date is accurate, that beats 1840 and tends to corroborate the otherwise uncorroborated 1827.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 03:08 AM

Further than who thought? ;)

We certainly have Olmsted's whaling voyage of 1840 that cites it as a work-song.

Then there is the claim in Eckstorm & Smith (1927) that it was heard before 1827.

I have heard this Drunken Sailor composition, but guessed it was inspired by the sailor song. I have no trouble believing that the sailor song dates back to at least 1820 (though without contemporaneous proof).

I call "Drunken Sailor" a shanty, but only after the fact. So far as its form was different from almost every other shanty, and it's use was so particularly circumscribed (walk-away), and (it seems) it was allowed in the navy, I understand it to be one of the work-songs that predated most chanties.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 10 Dec 12 - 09:12 PM

There is evidence that "Drunken Sailor" goes back considerably further than we thought.

This site:

http://www.pdmusic.org/1800s.html

includes a MIDI for the composition "Drunken Sailor (Rondo/Divertimento)" by Christopher Meineke (1782-1850). The piece is said to have been published in 1825.

Its first strain is the major version of the shanty tune (essentially "One Little Two Little Three Little Indians"). At least one shanty authority (can't remember which one) states that this was a "modern" variant.

Either way, Meineke's composition suggests that the shanty, with one tune or the other, was in use long before the Civil War.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 06:06 PM

Hi, Jonathan,
I think this is the version I used to sing many years ago. I must say I could never figure out how it ever could have been sung aboard as a shanty.

Thanks, Gibb,
I've seen the link on the other thread now.

I wasn't questioning Masefield's sea experiences, only calling him a 'shantyman'! Surely someone with so little experience would not have been allowed to take on this prestigious role.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 04:13 PM

To add to the confusion:

On Nov. 26, 1932, the Irish song collector Sam Henry published the following text (with tune)in the Coleraine "Northern Constitution":   

I dreamt I saw my own dear bride,
Lowlands, lowlands away, my John.
I dreamt I saw my own dear bride,
My lowlands away.

[similarly:]

And she was dressed in shimmering white.

All dressed in white, like some fair bride.

And then she smiled her sweetest smile.

She sang and made my heart rejoice.

The salt seaweed was in her hair.

It filled my heart with dark despair.

And then I knew that she was dead.

Then I awoke to hear the cry.

"All hand on deck! Oh, watch ahoy!"

This appears on p. 144 of _Sam Henry's Songs of the People_ (1990).

The infuriating note by the editors says: "Source not given."

If this text has appeared upthread, I apologize. It was easier to copy it than to search the entire thread.

Comments?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 03:38 PM

Hi Steve

As Charley says, Masefield seems to have been familiar with a number of chanties in direct experience, though he indicates that chanties were on their way out or otherwise not in their prime when he was working.

In my paper, I argue that despite what Masefield's familiarity may have been with some chanties, in the case of "Lowlands," he had no experience (or else chose to ignore it).

I'll PM you link to paper on-line.

Gibb


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 03:29 PM

I guess it's actually called "messages."

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 03:28 PM

Steve-

If you first click on "the number of replies" rather than the thread name, the thread will come up in sets of 50, much more manageable.

Masefield did sail a couple of years as an apprentice, and was trained aboard the "Conway" as a cadet in England. He certainly was familiar with shanties as sung and most likely chorused along as he worked but it's not clear if he actually led them.

Masefield had very bad luck with both his first and second captains and finally jumped ship in New York City, getting jobs as a waiter in sailortown dives and eventually getting a job via a friend he met in a textile mill in New Jersey. Eventually he quit that job and steamed back to England and eventually became a successful poet. His mother was most distressed to learn he was throwing away "his career."

Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 02:56 PM

Gibb,
Any chance of posting your research somewhere please? For those of us on t'other side of the pond.

Jonathan
Was Masefield a 'shantyman'? Is there evidence for this? I'll have to check my copy of his 'sea songs'.

Gibb,
I've suggested this before to other thread leaders. This thread is so long even on my new superfast computer it takes a while to download this thread. All that is needed is to start a new thread , part 2...part 3 etc every couple of hundred posts.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 10:05 AM

I confess that I feel somewhat skeptical too. Surely one of the most lyrical and melancholy trad songs can't have been created step by step by careless and romantic 20th century editors!

But Gibb's evidence that it was isn't easily disputed. I'm going to think about it some more, however.

As to Hugill, he certainly had no reason to expect that the shanty collections were fooling him. Maybe he learned the song from print even before he went to sea, then taught it to his shipmates.

At least that would make the "dead lover" "Lowlands" a real shanty, even if sung by only one real shantyman! (Two if Masefield had ever sung it.)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jun 12 - 08:40 AM

Gibb-

You probably got a lot of feedback from your lecture at the recent Mystic Sea Music Festival. Would you be willing to summarize the reaction? My friends were very interested in your presentation but were skeptical of your conclusions. Maybe they just needed to review this thread.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 21 Jun 12 - 08:18 PM

A recently digitized source.

1890            Bassett, F.S. "Songs of the Sea." _Brainard's Musical World_ [Chicago] 27(313) (January 1890): 7-8.

Nothing too interesting here, though I consider any 19th century article of chanties to be of some notability. Each contributes in some way to broadening the audience and solidifying standardized print knowledge.

So this one is basically whipped up based in L.A. Smith's _The Music of the Waters_ (1888). I see no unique info. On the other hand, the author tweaks some lyrics here and there. For instance, "I am bound to the Rio Grande" becomes "I am off to Rio Grande." And "Slapandergosheka" becomes "Slopandergosha." However, despite such differences, and in light of several mistakes, it is absolutely clear to me that this knowledge is derived from Smith's text. There is no evidence that the author had his/her own direct knowledge of chanties.

Notable is the tweak of the text for "Lowlands", wherein Smith's "Lowlands a-ray" has become here "Lowlands away." I believe in this case that this was a rationalization, not a correction.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 12:55 AM

2011-2012        Various Artists. Short Sharp Shanties: Sea Songs of a Watchet Sailor. Wild Goose Studios. 3 CDs.

I compared (well, collated) the John Short items presented by Tom Brown and co. on this project with the C Sharp and RR Terry collections, to see what items were unique to the unpublished manuscripts. I realize of course that the published versions aren't exactly the same as the manuscripts, however my understanding is that what Sharp and Terry attributed to Short in their publications was based in the manuscripts, even if the editors made composite versions that come out different. My interest here is purely to track the unique appearances of chanty items.

Anyway these are the unique (i.e. not previously "tallied") items I came up with. Hopefully I didn't mess up. Corrections appreciated.

NEW YORK GIRLS
SACRAMENTO
WHISKEY JOHNNY
DIXIE'S LAND
CLEAR THE TRACK
GOODBYE FARE YE WELL
LOWLANDS AWAY
PADDY ON THE RAILWAY
REUBEN RANZO
ROSABELLA


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 09:32 PM

1896        Hawley, G. "The Foundations of the Sea." The Pall Mall Magazine 14(57).

Nov. 1891, ship Manilla > Honolulu. Can't quite tell if this is supposed to be fiction (I presume) or possibly a true account. Uses the phrase "shanty song."

//
The rest of the crew staggered out, carrying those who were beyond walking. Fresh air and cold water galvanised them into something like life; but the rest of the voyage was a sad lot. The greyness had eaten into us, and the clank of the pump brakes, watch in, watch out, took the place of the cheery, shanty song. The ship leaked like a basket, the heat having started the pitch from the caulking in every seam, and we made Honolulu with three feet of water in the hold.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 09:08 PM

1895        Stedman, Thomas L., ed. Twentieth Century Practice: An International Encyclopedia of Modern Medical Science. Vol. 3. New York: William Wood and Co.

Chanties inducing nausea!

Not much info here except to add to our sense of how familiar laypersons may have been with the genre in the 1890s, i.e. the phrase, in quotes, is "chanty song."

//
A distinguished surgeon in the United States Navy, formerly associated with me on duty, who, although he had passed half of his twenty-five years of service at sea, was always a great sufferer from seasickness, assured me that he could at any time excite in himself feelings of nausea, by recalling occasions and circumstances of former attacks. Charteris quotes Henry Ward Beecher as relating how "many years after his first voyage across the Atlantic, he heard some sailors in a Brooklyn dock singing the same old 'chanty song' that he had heard when ill at sea, and that the mere listening to it produced the creepy feeling of seasickness;"
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 07:20 PM

1894        Walling, Lieutenant Burns T. "The Wreck of the Kearsarge." The Proceedings of the United States Naval Institute 21(4).

Feb 1894, the famed USS KEARSARGE is wrecked on Roncador Bank, off the east coast of Central America. At one point during the activities, singing of chanties is described.

The men sang "Shantee songs", [BLOW THE MAN DOWN] and [A-ROVING].
//
What preparations could be made for the approach of daylight were now pushed ahead. Three rafts were constructed from the light spars and lumber, their heads resting on the rail forward, all being ready to launch in case the other boats should fare no better than had the second cutter. As much extra provision and fresh water as possible was brought up, limited only in amount by a desire to keep the gangway clear for a rush forward in case she should break in two.

The galley fires were started and coffee was made and served out, reinforced by cigars and cigarrettes from the wine mess stores. The men kept at their work singing cheerily a number of 'Shantee songs, the most popular being "Heigho, knock a man down" and "No more I'll go a-rovin' with you, fair maid.''
//

It's interesting as another appearance of the "knock a man" variation.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 06:52 PM

1895        Manchester Literary Club. _Papers of the Manchester Literary Club._ Vol. 21. Manchester: John Heywood.

4 Feb., 1895, at one of the weekly meetings of the Manchester Literary Club, J.B. Shaw presented a paper on chanties. It was accompanied by performances, with piano accompaniment.

Two sentences are verbatim copy of Alden's 1882 article, so that was used as a source on background. If they had piano accompaniment, there is a good chance they were using Davis & Tozer's Third Edition, published in the early 1890s, as it was the only source then with accompaniment. However, they might have made their own accompaniment.

This event is interesting because it marks perhaps the first (or first I've seen!) instances of chanties being performed by "laymen". Although we don't know if, perhaps, some or all of the performers were ex-seamen, it seems to me that most or all were simply interested amateurs. They speak of preserving the songs – the first rumblings of a revival? As I said, Davis/Tozer's volume, which doesn't seem to have gotten much notice until its third edition, looks to have been the only publication in the 19th century that was created to facilitate performance of chanties by laypersons.

The brief reads as follows.
//
Sailors' Chanties.
Mr. J. B. Shaw contributed the principal paper. It dealt with Sailors' Chanties and other Sea Songs, and was illustrated by the singing of a number of these "chanties" and songs by Messrs. Derby, Butterworth, Dinsmore, Edmeston, Mercer, and Wilcock, who were accompanied on the piano by Mr. W. Noel Johnson. The reader said that "Sailors' Chanties" belonged to a time now no more. The typical "Jack " of the pre-propeller age has utterly vanished, has passed into the dusty domain of the archaeologist, and his real habits and customs will soon be forgotten. We should therefore make an effort to preserve the memory of his songs before the last man who heard them and can give testimony in regard to them is gone. The "Chanty-man," the chorister of the old packet ship, has left no successors. In the place of rousing "pulling songs" we now hear the rattle of the steam-winch, and the steamwinch or pump give us the rattle of cog-wheels or the hiss of steam instead of the wild choruses of other days. Sailors' songs might be divided into two classes, pulling songs and windlass songs. The former were used merely to aid the men when pulling on a rope, to pull at the same precise instant. The latter were intended to beguile the men while getting up the anchor or working the pumps into temporary forgetfulness of their prosaic labour. These songs are worth studying from various points of view. Musically they are most valuable, as showing how much they are characteristic of their subject, vocationally as proving the amount of impetus or encouragement needed by the singer in his work, and poetically by making known the feelings which animate a sailor's breast with regard to his home, his wife, his captain, and all that concerns him.
In the conversation which followed the reading of the paper, Messrs. Milner, Kay, Crosland, Chrystal, and Newton took part.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 05:56 PM

1894        Burn Murdoch, W.G. _From Edinburgh to the Antarctic._ London: Longmans, Green and Co.

During the Dundee Antarctic Expedition of 1892-93. Barque BALAENA.
Passenger/observer notes several instances of chanties. He spells the word two ways: "shantie" and "chantie". I believe the experiences were genuine, however he seems to utilize Davis/Tozer to "refresh" his memory of the chanties.

[WHISKEY JOHNNY]
//
Men and boys there were of every sailor type: old Arctic whalers, red cheeked and bearded; tanned South Spainers with shaven chins and faces lined with the rough and smooth; quiet men and boys from the East Coast fishing villages, and gentle men from the Shetlands. Fifty men from all the world; strangers an hour ago, brothers now—in the one spirit of whisky, devilment, and adventure.
What a picture they made as they swung together at the topsail halyards, their eyes gleaming, with open, thirsty mouths shouting the old shantie, 'Whis—ky John — nie. Oh—whisky makes the life of man. Whis—ky for—my Johnnie,' with the shantie man's solo, 'Oh, whisky made me pawn my clothes,' and all together again, with a double haul and a shout of 'Whis—ky—John—nie,' that makes the blood tingle even to remember it.
//

[MR. STORMALONG]
//
A Danish ship passed us to-day; she came up from leeward, passed under our stern, and faded out of sight in a veil of mist ahead of us and to windward. She was sailing quite two points closer than we could. She had a windmill working her pump, an arrangement much despised by our sailors—without reason, I think, as it saves an immense amount of work. We have to pump ship every four hours, and it takes about ten minutes each time. After heavy weather and the ship has been straining we have to pump her for about half an hour out of each watch. The pump stands at the foot of the mainmast inside the fife-rail, and has a handle on either side; some of the watch turn the hands and the rest stand in a line along the deck and haul on a rope attached to the pump handle each time it comes up. As we pump, the chantie (pronounced shanty) man trolls out some old sea song, and after each line all hands join in the refrain. Some of our men have a large stock of these songs. Most of them are sung to sad, minor tunes, with sometimes almost meaningless, but time-honoured words. The airs have much of the dignity of early Norse and Gaelic tunes, quite unlike any modern music ; when and where they originated I should like well to know. Here is one of them that the men sung frequently. It refers to some ideal skipper, beloved by his crew, who had died and gone to his rest a long time ago. [w/ score]

Oh, Stormie's gone, the good old man.
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Stormalong.
Oh, Stormie's gone, that good old man,
To be with you Stormalong.
We dug his grave with a golden spade, 

Aye, aye, aye, Mister Stormalong;
His shroud of finest silk was made, 

To be with you, Storm-along.
We lowered him with a silver chain, 

Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm-along;
Our eyes were dim with more than rain, 

To be with you, Storm-along.
And now he lies in an earthen bed,
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm-along; 

Our hearts are sore, our eyes are red, 

To be with you, Storm-along.
Old Stormie heard the Angel call,
Aye, aye, aye, Mister Storm-along; 

So sing his dirge now one and all, 

To be with you, Storm-along.

Think of this very slowly chanted, in time to the clank of the pump, the waves surging over the decks, sky and sea grey, and the wind booming through the shrouds overhead, and you have as dreary a scene as can well be pictured.
//

The [DEAD HORSE] ceremony is described.
//
OCTOBER 6th.—Lat. 30.30 ; long. 20.4. Old Horse day.
The cat's wind has held fair, and the Balaena, with a white feather in her teeth, bowls merrily southward.
The Old Horse came out in great style. The sailors consider that they do their first month's work at sea for nothing, having received the month's pay in advance when they signed articles, and the old horse is made an emblem of this month, and is hanged. I fail to see the analogy between an old horse and an unpaid month's work, but I am told that it is quite evident. However, I relate the incident as I saw it. It may be a custom of the past in a few years, for the reason that men are now trying to have their wages paid weekly. They would like to have a portion of their first pay handed them in advance, and would like their wives to receive their half pay in weekly, instead of in monthly, instalments. There are several other regulations they wish to have formed as to their pay; for instance, that in case of shipwreck, they should receive pay up to date of reaching home, or at least till they make land, or a port. If we were to lose this ship in the Antarctic and lived in the boats or on the ice for a month or so, and then had the good fortune to be picked up by one of our companion vessels and brought home alive, the men would only be entitled to claim pay up to the moment the ship went down, and instead of returning with their pockets full of money, they would arrive in debt to their employers for the cost of their board on the vessel that took them home, whilst the owners by insurance might lose nothing, and might even profit by the wreck. This seems hardly a considerate arrangement in regard to the men; and if employers would still be employers, they ought to be very considerate in this respect, or the time will come for sailors to work for their united interest, and the consideration of the employers will be of no account.

For some days reports have come aft from the focsle that the horse was being constructed. When I heard an unfamiliar song being chanted this afternoon, I went forward and found the men hauling on two lines that led down to the focsle-hatch. At the end of the lines came the dummy horse, made of wood and canvas, bestrode by Braidy, arrayed in a scarlet flannel jacket and a black jockey's cap. The horse was supported on either side and at its latter end by some of the old hands. As the hatch is very steep, they had some difficulty in hauling up the horse and its rider properly and in time to the chant. At last they got him on deck and then began a slow march round the ship, going aft on the starboard side, round the poop, and forward again by the port side. The procession really made a splendid picture-subject, the colouring of the men's clothes in the sunlight was so varied and so harmonious; there was faded blue, and purple, and pale green, and a sky-blue Tam-o'-Shanter, and all the faces and arms were dyed nut-brown by the sun. In the middle of the group sat Braidy in his scarlet coat, with the brown unpainted wood of the bulwarks and the blue sea above forming a back-ground. Round the deck they went singing 'The Old Horse,' chanting the time-honoured song with all solemnity, making the old horse plunge at times, for they had to pull it along the deck in short jerks to keep time to the tune. In the lee channels the sea was frothing white, and I thought Braidy would come off, for the horse grew very restive there; but he held to its neck.

Under the foreyard the procession halted, and a running bowline was dropped over the horse's head, and Braidy got off, and to a second mournful chant it was hauled up to the yard's-arm. It was a curious, quaint, and pretty performance; the solemn seriousness of the whole affair and the suppressed childish fun were in extreme contrast. For a minute the horse hung swinging against the bright sky, then a man lay out along the yard and drew his knife across the line, and the 'Poor Old Horse' dropped with a splash into the blue waves and floated sadly astern: These are some of the words of the song, and the air as nearly as I can remember it.

THE OLD HORSE [w/ score]

They say my horse is dead and gone,
And they say so, and they hope so!
They say my horse is dead and gone;
Oh, poor old man!

For one long month I rode him hard, 

And they say so, and they hope so! 

For one long month I rode him hard; 

Oh, poor old man!

But if he's dead I 'll bury him low,

And they say so, and they hope so! 

But if he's dead I'll bury him low; 

Oh, poor old man! 


Then drop him to the depths of the sea, 

And they say so, and they hope so! 

Then drop him to the depths of the sea; 

Oh, poor old man!
//

[REUBEN RANZO]
//
Now a chantie is started as the crew haul on the main topsail halyards. Lately the chanties have been few, and half drowned by the racket of the storm and hail-showers; but this morning there is a ring of triumph in the hearty voices, and the white sails that have been imprisoned so long seem to signal to the gale as they unfurl that we have beaten it, and are ready to face it again.
It is a new chantie to me, this old song, which one of our harpooneers trolls out—sung in the ark, probably, when Noah hauled in the gangway. Marshall has an endless stock of these chanties, and brings out a new one when we get tired of the last.

Chantie man: Ran-zo was a tailor,
All together: Ranzo, boys, Ranzo!
Chantie man: Now he's called a sailor,
All together: Ranzo, boys, Ranzo!
The skipper was a dandy, 

Ranzo, boys, Ranzo! 

And was too fond of Brandy, 

Ranzo, boys, Ranzo!
They call him now a sailor! 

Ranzo, boys, Ranzo! 

The master of a whaler! 

Ranzo, boys, Ranzo!

There is a fine sudden ring in the chorus that goes well with the wind and squalls. 'Belay,' shouts the mate, and the crew repeat' belay,' and the chantie stops in the middle of a Ran-zo.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 02:59 AM

1903[Dec.]        Gilbert, Paul Thomas. The Great White Tribe in Filipinia. Cincinnati: Jennings and Pye.

Dec.1901, Oroquieta, Phillipines. A ship is wrecked off shore, and this incident happens with one of the rescued officers. He sings [BLOW BOYS BLOW] and [GOODBYE FARE YOU WELL]

//
The mate, aroused by the example of the chief, rendered a "Tops'l halliard shanty," "Blow, Bullies, Blow." It was almost as though a character had stepped from Pinafore, when the athletic, gallant little mate, giving a hitch to his trousers, thus began: "Strike up a light there, Bullies; who's the last man sober?"

Song.

"O, a Yankee ship came down the river—
      Blow, Bullies, blow! 

Her sails were silk and her yards were silver—
      Blow, my Bully boys, blow!

Now, who do you think was the cap'n of 'er?
      Blow, Bullies, blow! 

Old Black Ben, the down-east bucko—
Blow, my Bully boys, blow!"

"'Ere is a shanty what the packeteers sings when, with 'full an' plenty,' we are 'omeward bound. It is a 'windlass shanty,' an' we sings it to the music of the winch. The order comes 'hup anchors,' and the A one packeteer starts hup:

"'We're hom'ard bound; we're bound away;
        Good-bye, fare y' well.
We're mone'ard bound; we leave to-day;
        Hooray, my boys! We're home'ard bound.
We're home'ard bound from Liverpool town;
        Hooray, my boys, hooray!
A bully ship and a bully crew;
        Good-bye, fare y' well.
A bucko mate an' a skipper too;
        Hooray, my boys, we're home'ard bound!'"
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 01:40 AM

1889        J., F.H. "Negro Music of the United States." In _A Dictionary of Music and Musicians_, ed. by Sir George Grove. Vol. 4. London: Macmillan. 728-730.

Early edition of Grove's Dictionary of Music and Musicians. Reflects the "common knowledge" about African-American musical style that probably would have informed C. Sharp and Arnold (w/ Bullen) in their comments from their collections.

Just one excerpt here on work-singing, by stevedores and firemen:

//
They [African-Americans] have songs for all occasions where they move in concert, such as loading or unloading ships, or working at the pumps of a fire engine. Their rhythmic sympathies are most strongly active on these occasions. Often one of a gang acts as a precentor, giving a line or two by himself, and the chorus coming in with the refrain. This leader, when his supply of lines gives out or his memory fails, resorts to improvisation.
//

No mention of any sailors' songs in this volume.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 12:50 AM

1893        Ralph, Julian. "The Old Way to Dixie." _Harper's New Monthly Magazine_ 86(512) (Jan. 1893).

Headed down the Mississippi on the old fashioned steamboat CITY OF PROVIDENCE. The refrains of roustabouts (who earn "a dollar a day") are noted. One has the famus floating lyric of "Johnny Come Down to Hilo" and "Hog-eye", i.e. "Who's been here since I been gone?"
Pg174
//
At one stop which we did make, Captain Carvell ordered a barge pushed out of the way—"so's we shan't make a bunglesome landing," he said. The nearest great landingstage, a long gang-plank hung by the middle from a sort of derrick,and capable of connecting the boat with a hill or a flat surface, was let down on the bank. The unavoidable flour-barrels came head foremost along a wooden slide this time.and a darky on the boat sang an incessant line, "Somebody told me so," as a warning to the men below that another and another barrel was coming. They are fond of chanting at their work, and they give vent to whatever comes into their heads, and then repeat it thousands of times, perhaps. It is not always a pretty sentence, but every such refrain serves to time their movements. "O Lord God! you know you done wrong," I have heard a negro say with each bag that was handed to him to lift upon a pile. "Been a slave all yo' days; you 'ain't got a penny saved," was another refrain: and still another, chanted incessantly, was: "Who's been here since I's been gone? Big buck nigger with a derby on." They are all "niggers" once you enter the Southern country. Every one calls them so, and they do not often vary the custom among themselves.
These roustabouts are nothing like as forward as the lowest of their race that we see in the North. …They earn a dollar a day, but have not learned to save it. …Though they chant at their work, I seldom saw them laugh or heard them sing a song, or knew one of them to dance during the voyage. The work is hard, and they are kept at it, urged constantly by the mates on shore and aboard, as the Southern folks say that negroes and mules always need to be. But the roustabouts' faults are excessively human, after all, and the consequence of a sturdy belief that they need sharper treatment than the rest of us leads to their being urged to do more work than a white man.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 10:02 PM

1853        Bright, Henry Arthur. Free Blacks and Slaves. Would Immediate Abolition Be a Blessing? London: Arthur Hall Virtue & Co.

Just something as a point of reference to the speculative idea that has popped up here and there that, if African-Americans were at the forefront of introducing the concept and/or the repertoire for the "modern" chanties, a subsequent shift in that development may have been due to the disappearance of Black labor in certain trades. Or, the development and spread of chanties may have been affected by the movement of non-Blacks replacing them, taking over the reins and perhaps acquiring the chanties.

A letter from an anti-abolitionist.

Quotes from a letter to the Maryland Colonization Journal from Mr. Latrobe of Baltimore, Oct. 1851.
//
Again, I would quote in support of my position a few facts from Mr. Latrobe's letter :—he is speaking of the effect of competition between the two races—"In Baltimore, ten years since, the shipping at Fell's Point was loaded by free coloured stevedores ; the labour at the coal-yards was free coloured labour. In the rural districts round Bal timore, the principal city of a slave state, free coloured labourers, ten years ago, got in the harvest, worked the mine banks, made the fences, and indeed supplied, to a great extent, all agricultural wants in this respect. Now all this is changed. The white man stands in the black man's shoes—or else is fast getting into them. In Cincinnati, the labour that used to be performed by free blacks in the great pork establishments, is now performed by white men. The firemen on the steam-boats on the western waters are now whites, where they used to be free coloured men ; and the negro's song, as he filled his furnaces, has ceased on the Ohio and Mississippi."
//

So, dating the death of the steamboat firemen's songs to the turn of the 1850s and saying that much of the free Black labor – at which time Whites would have worked relatively "side by side"—was in the 1840s. That's the decade in which I believe we see the burgeoning of chanties.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 09:39 PM

The last author, 1879, used the phrase "shanty song" (without quotes). This author, same year, puts it in quotes as "shantee."

1879        MacMichael, Morton. _A Landlubbers Log of a Voyage Round the "Horn"._

From a journal kept. By a passenger in the ship PACTOLUS, (of New York) captained by Colcord (aged 30), from Philadelphia to San Francisco via Cape Horn. Left Philly in July 1879. The passage is from August 1879.
//
The men, who are now prevented from working about deck or aloft at their usual jobs, are only worked at tending the sails, and between orders stay under the lee of the forward house. They look very odd, being swelled to nearly twice their natural size by their thick clothes, over which they wear oil-skin coats and pants, and also rubber " sou'wester" hats. Those that have new suits of oil-skins look like mammoth canary birds, the color of the garments being a bright yellow. Through all their hardships, and this weather is really very hard on them, they seem as cheerful as possible, and sing their queer monotonous songs with a vim when pulling on the ropes, where all hands, or a whole watch is needed. At these times the carpenter is expected to lend a hand, and when on deck I too catch hold and help pull. The song or " shantee" as they call it, and which is sung when a whole watch or more are hauling, consists in the leader singing a line, then all hands the chorus, which is only one line long, and at the same time giving two long steady pulls; as the leader chants the next line the men rest, then another chorus and pull, and so on until the yard is hoisted or the sail sheeted home.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 09:10 PM

1879        Featon, John. The Waikato War 1863-4. Capper Press.

ca.1863 New Zealand, during the Waikato War. Pg69. Deep-water shanties adapted for rowing, with SHENADOAH and an ambiguous other.
//
The majority of the men who volunteered for the Water Transport Corps, were, as may be imagined, those who had been used to a sea-faring life, and accustomed to boats and rowing. They were a rough-and-tumble lot, and many are the wild stories told of their escapades. The boats' crews (8 and 12 oars), used generally to sweep up against the stream to the chorus of a sailors shanty song, "I'm bound away," or "Ye rolling rivers," usurping the canoe chant of the natives.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 08:26 PM

1903        Des Voeux, Sir G. William. _My Colonial Service in British Guiana, St. Lucia, Trinidad, Fiji, Australia, Newfoundland, and Hong Kong with Interludes._ Vol. 1. London: John Murray.

December 1863-ca. 1867, a magistrate in Demerara. The observer talks about rowing songs led by a Barbadian, including [JOHN BROWN'S BODY]. Pp24-25

//
As I was destined to spend a large proportion of the next four years in them, it may be as well to give here a short description of the boats used for travelling in Guiana by Europeans and the upper class of coloured people….
The rowers were usually negroes or "coloured men," who, when they got away from town and drink, showed marvellous endurance. I have known them of their own accord labour steadily at the oars for sixteen to eighteen hours, with scarcely any intermission, when they had any special desire to reach their destination quickly. At first when they began to tire I used to give them spirit, but I soon found by experience that this was worse than useless. It put some additional life into the stroke for a short time, but always caused a very quick collapse afterwards. At night the pace was increased when they sang in chorus. The songs, usually led by a Barbadian negro, were much of a kind described in Marryat's Peter Simple, remarkable neither for sense nor tune. Only one of these songs, as far as I remember, had in it anything approaching to melody. That was the Union battle-song of "John Brown," with the refrain of " Glory, hallelujah, as we go marching on." And even that, reiterated many times, became, to say the least, monotonous; especially during the night hours when sleep in view of the next day's work was desirable. But however wanting in other respects, this singing was always in good time and no doubt lightened the labour, as it seemed absolutely essential to good going; so that whenever there was necessity for expedition I never put an end to it.

[footnote]
The chorus of one of them, which I took down in writing and happen to have preserved, ran as follows:—

"He hi ha, bow wow wow, the days of the petticoats are coming, 

Never mind the weather, but get over double trouble; 

Then we're bound for the happy land of Canaan."

The verses, of which there are many, preceding this chorus were equally nonsensical. For instance :—

"Tom Sayers and Heenan, they made a night to brag, 

They swear'd they'd beat all creation; 

But the little Malitia Boy did tap him on the nose, 

And knocked him in the happy land of Canaan."

This was, o course, a reference to the celebrated prize fight which had recently taken place in England, "Malitia" being evidently intended for "Benicia," and the singers quite innocent of the fact that the "Benicia Boy" was Heenan himself.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 08:02 PM

1871        King, Rev. F. "In the Bahamas." _Mission Life_ (1 June 1871). 309-13.

On Abaco.
//
"There are large sugar cultivations on the mainland," writes Mr. Philpot from Abaco, "and the fields of waving cane, with their delicate green leaves and golden tassels, look very pretty, especially when they relieve a dark background of sombre pine-wood. A windmill crushes the cane, and when wind fails, manual labour is called in—a number of negroes turning the windlass to the wild chaunts of their own country."
//

On Bimini. A "hilo" song while working cargo.
//
Shocking as it may seem to our notions, the main source of wealth and employment to the Bahama islander used in former times to consist in "wrecking." Wrecks then were more often designed than accidental, and the goods rescued from the ship were bought at a nominal sum, and sold afterwards by the wreckers at a considerable profit in Nassau. …

"When the ship is above water, the work is pleasant enough. Blocks and ropes are fixed, hatchways opened, and sturdy arms at work, while strong lungs shout the wrecking songs—

'High low, high low,
Johnny come blow the organ! 

Walk him up and walk him down, 

High low, high low!'

and the cotton-bales and sugar-boxes seem to fly into the boats. But when it is a sunken wreck, and the goods have to be dived for out of the hold, then comes the danger. The diver descends into the ship with a line tied round him, which he jerks when he wishes to ascend. Woe betide him if he gets entangled in the ship's hold and cannot come out! and this is not seldom the case."
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 07:43 PM

1833        Unknown (Johnstone, ed.). "Sierra Leone and its Capitol, Freetown." _The Schoolmaster_ 34(2) (23 March 1833).

About the "Kroumen" and their singing when rowing. Recall that Alden (1882) made a comparison to, "the lawless, halfmournful, half-exulting songs of the Kroomen."
//
The habitations of the Krou people, Krou Town as it is called, are, in the direction of this spot adjoining Freetown, a complete Indian village; the houses formed, like all the huts in the colony, of clay, twigs, and thatch. These men are an emigrant and industrious race, natives of a part of the Grain Cost, in the neighbourhood of Cape Palmos, about thret hundred and fifty or four hundred miles south-east of this, who come here for a few years only—let themselves out for hire to ships or as servants on shore—make a little money—return home again, and are succeeded by some more of their fortune-pushing countrymen- They are, in fact, the Scotsmen of Africa. They are a remarkably strong, active, hardy and intelligent race of men. Their skin varies from a dark copper colour to black, tattooed about the face, chest and arms. They are distinguished by a tattooed arrow on each temple with its point to the eye; and almost all of them have the front teeth of the upper jaw filed to a point, or some portion of each tooth removed, according to the fancy of the wearer or those who begat him, which gives them a savage appearance. Their only article of dress is a piece of printed cotton cloth round the middle. None of them have their wives and families here; these are left at home under the guardianship of their own relations, and the protection of their chief, to whom, on returning home, they always carry a present of cloth, muskets, gunpowder, or some article of dress, as a sort of tribute and acknowledgment for his protection.
Every ship of war on arriving at Freetown, enters certain number of these Kroumen over and above her compliment, for the purpose of manning her boats when the may be sent on any service where there is likely to be much exposure to the sun or rain, and to the mephitic exhalation from the soil, such as weeding and watering so that our unassimilated seamen may be subjected as little as possible to the deleterious influence of the climate.
We received upwards of twenty of them on board, chiefly young men, all of them more muscular and athletic, though not generally taller, than our own people;…

In rowing, they have always a song of some sort or other at command, to which they keep time with the oar, someimes melodious, but usually harsh and untuneful, having generally for its subject something connected with the ship, or the officers, or the duty that is going on, each chanting a subject in turn, while the rest join in the chorus.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 07:21 PM

1854        Hogg, James, ed. "A Letter from Mauritius." Hogg's Instructor. Vol. 3. (July-December 1854). Edingurgh: James Hogg.

Mauritius. Observer calls sailors chantying "chanting".
//
The little bay looks active and busy with shipping; loading and unloading goes on merrily to the chanting of the sailors, which sound is borne pleasantly across the water with every little breath of wind;
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 05:50 PM

The "xxxx" in my last post doesn't mean anything (just a marker in my notes).
***

1835        Atkinson, Samuel Coate, ed. "Going to Bed without Your Dinner (from Leave From a Log: A West India Story)." Atkinson's Casket 1 (January 1835).

Published Philadelphia.
Commenting on a sight in "the West Indies" – Trinidad? Calls Black work songs "a kind of Creole chaunt."

//
1 now passed the estate belonging to Monsieur Honnemaison: the field-gang were cutting canes, and the muleteers loading their animals,—all were chaunting a short song. Negro songs are always short; it was what on French estates is called a "belle air," a kind of Creole chaunt, almost agreeable enough to merit its appellation.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 05:33 PM

xxxx1850        Baird, Robert. _Impressions and Experiences of the West Indies and North America in 1849._ Vol. 1. Edinburgh and London: William Blackwood and Sons.

Early 1849, Antigua.

//
Nothing to break the calm silence of the scene, save the occasional chaunt of a negro band, who were engaged, at some distance, putting up the sails of a windmill, and whose chorus, rude and imperfectly heard as it was, sounded pleasantly in the ear, as the indication of light hearts.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 07:20 AM

Gibb, the OED gives no support for that pronunciation of "chaunt."

It lists it simply as an 18th and 19th century spelling variant of "chant," with the "ch" in "church" and the "au" as in "palm."

This suggests to me that if "shanty" had come directly from "cha(u)nt," it would almost certainly have had the "hard ch" from the very beginning. But if it had, I doubt anyone would have suggested French as an origin.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 06:29 AM

Fanny Elssler is back! This time she is in Havana, rather than New Orleans, and the stevedores are rolling cargoes rather than hoisting them. Their song is a "lively chaunt."

1843        Unknown. "Fanny Elssler at the Havanah." Fraser's Magazine 168(28) (December 1843).

Havana, Jan. 1841. A rough translation of Elssler's own accounts.

//
Before me lay the harbour, beautiful in shape, and its fine quays thickly lined with hundreds of vessels of all nations. …Great masses of idle people were standing contemplating our arrival, the vessels teeming with negroes, oddly attired, were at work rolling cargoes in and out, and accompanying their labour with a lively chaunt, both musical and strange.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 04:22 AM

1835        Hoffman, Charles Fenno. A Winter in the Far West. Vol. 2. London: Richard Bentley.

Contains a letter dated March 25th, 1834. The author is embarking upon a trip out of St. Louis on a steamboat.

//
The hoarse panting of the high-pressure engines, the rattling of the drays on the paved wharfs, and the discordant cries in every tongue mingling with the song of the negro boatmen, as their wild chaunt on coming into port would rise ever and anon above the general din, made a confusion of sights and sounds that was bewildering.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 03:22 AM

1851[March]        Dixon ("A Rugbaen"). _Transatlantic Rambles; or, A Record of Twelve Months' Travels in the United States, Cuba, & the Brazils._ London: George Bell.

A visitor from England to Virginia. Makes a generic comparison of Black songs to deep-water chanty. Being ca.1850/51, "chanty" wasn't in common use, but rather than call the sailor song a "song", he calls it a "chaunt."

Pg54
//
I am told that negroes, although living in " Old Virginny," never did, and never would, sing such songs as Old Dan Tucker and Lucy Neale, which only originated in the brains of their sham Ethiopian personifiers. The songs they do sing are almost always of a religious turn, something between a nautical anchor-hauling chaunt and the "Old Hundredth."
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 02:45 AM

1831[Oct. 1830]        Ormond, Cyprian. "The Star of St. Philippe." In _The Amethyst_, ed. by Nathan Covington Brooks. Baltimore: N.C. Brooks.

A story set in New Orleans. "Wild yet rich" rowing songs, called a "rude chaunt."

//
By this time we had arrived upon the levee. The City, with its white stuccoed houses, lay on the interior of the high embankment, and the shipping, with its dark hulls and its forests of spars and rigging, upon the outside in equally profound repose. It was as bright as the sunshine of noon. The sea breeze, whose steady current came freshly up the river, wafted the musquitoes from the shore, gave us a pure reanimating atmosphere to breathe and fanned the feverish brow of my companion, who opened his bosom to the cooling air. The stillness was now and then broken by the shrill, harsh creaking of the ungreased wheels of one of those water carts, that ply daily and nightly through the streets, piercing the tortured ears of the stranger, till his hardened auriculars become habituated to the sound. In the pauses of this melody came music, floating over the waters, of a finely contrasted description. It was the rude chaunt of some negroes returning down the river to their master's plantation, and beguiling the toil of their oars with a wild yet rich and well harmonized chorus.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 29 Sep 11 - 02:13 AM

A net-fishing reference to 1840s Jamaica.

1851        Gosse, Philip Henry and Richard Hill. A Naturalist's Sojourn in Jamaica. London: Longman, Brown, Green and Longmans.

July 1885, west coast of Jamaica. Fishermen are using seine nets. Their songs are...WILD!!

//
The sound of human voices in melody falls now upon the ear, the song of the negroes who have begun to haul in the seine. Rude their music is and artless their tune; yet, mellowed and softened by distance, now swelling in chorus, now feeble and faint, it has considerable sweetness, as the human voice always has under such circumstances. Yonder we see them, forming two lines in the water, ten or a dozen men in each row, hauling upon the two ropes; the outmost up to the neck in the sea, and the inmost on the beach; all naked, regardless of the burning sun that now pours down his beams upon their woolly heads and glossy backs. It is a slow operation ; and as they all throw their weight upon the line together, they sway backward and forward in time with the wild air whose notes they are singing.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 11:41 PM

1839        "The Old Sailor." "A West India Sketch." _Chambers's Edinburgh Journal_ 367 (9 Feb, 1839).

The author is on the Mahaica river in British Guiana. He interrupts his narrative to remark on the rowing songs of the Black oarsmen. If indeed the author was an "Old Sailor," it is notable that he does not compares these to any sailor songs.

Although it seems completely original, it's remarkable how similar this description is to others of the time.

//
Suddenly, on a signal from their spokesman, the negroes struck up a song, to which they kept time with their oars. The leading songster sang a line solo, taking up any occurrence that crossed his mind at the moment, or that took place in our progress. Thus, when the looms of the oars were thrown aft to replunge the blade in the water, the leader sang his line, whatever it might be, and as they one and all took their stroke together, every voice united in a general chorus. The first subject was connected with our voyage. The leader commenced—
Wo da boy for pull da boat,
to which the rest instantly rejoined—
Sing cheerly row!

then the first line was repeated, and the response again followed; and it was extremely rare that a subject was alluded to more than once; indeed, as the scenery and circumstances were changing, he was seldom at a loss for a theme; and when it flagged, some sly hit at the manager, myself, or their fellow-negroes, supplied the deficiency. There was something extremely musical in the tone and manner of singing, that rendered it any thing but unpleasant; and as it acted upon the energies of the negroes, to incite them to greater exertion, we had no objection to it. Two or three other lines I remember were—

Sun him get abub da bush,
Sing cheerly row; 

Sun him get abub da bush,
Sing cheerly row.

Captain hab da grog-bottell,
        Sing cheerly row; 

Captain hab da grog-bottell, 

Sing cheerly row.

At one time the voice of the leader became low and solemn as he pronounced—

Poor Charley neber cum again.
Nigger boy cry oh! 

Poor Charley neber cum again, 

Nigger boy cry oh!

There was something exceedingly plaintive in the tone of the leader, as well as the response, and Mitchell informed me that they referred to the death of a favourite slave belonging to his plantation, who had been drowned at that very spot about twelve months previous. The motion of the oars was equally slow with the utterance of the singer, and several other allusions to the deceased were made in the same mournful strain, till all at once the leader shouted—

Alligator in da mud. 

Sing cheerly row;
Alligator in da mud. 

Sing cheerly row.
//

Later in the account, more verses are given, and the narrator refers to the rowing song as a "chaunt."
//
The boatmen could hear very little if any thing of our conversation; but seeing us earnestly engaged, they ceased their chaunt, for they guessed poor Charley's history was the theme: still they narrowly watched our looks, and spoke in an under tone to each other; and when my friend could no longer repress his feelings, the spokesman suddenly burst forth in a loud song that was really startling, on account of the previous stillness, though it e: the honest sentiments of the negroes' hearts—
Massa Mitchell bery good man.
Sing cheerly row; 

Massa Mitchell bery good man,
Sing cheerly row.

…I was going to inquire who Hammerton was, but the question was delayed by the peculiar mournful cadences of the negroes as they continued their chaunt. Their voices sank yet lower, as the leader, having looked towards a clump of plantain and papaw trees, uttered,
Old man tan upon da shore,
Sing saafly row; 
[I'm not sure of "saafly", but it's not "cheerly"]
Old man tan upon da shore. 

Sing saafly row.
"Hush, Sam—hush I" said Mitchell; "leave off your song: he is indeed there, bending over the grave of his child."
"Massa Hammerton like for hearee we peaka too much sorry," answered Sam, the leader of the chaunt.
//

And later, a guy ("Caesar") refers to the singing as "chant":
//
"Go, massa, go," continued the negro; "you no top longer; Golamity bless Massa Mitchell; go den quick, and no let em boys sing em chant hearee, spose you please."
//

This suggests that rowing songs (perhaps, specifically those in the style of New World Africans) were sometimes called "chaunt" or "chant", both by "outsiders" and "insiders". There seems to be a correspondence between the terms, as if perhaps "chaunt" was "proper English" and "chant" was dialect. However, I'm not sure what this says about pronunciation. My assumption is that "chaunt" would have been with "sh" sound, while "chant" (as a dialect term in that spelling) would have had "ch/tsh" sound.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 09:31 PM

Munsey's Magazine, Feb. 1918, p. 71:

"One of the most interesting innovations in the American army and navy camps is the teaching of mass singing to the soldiers and sailors. This is being done not merely as a pastime, but with the distinct object of making better fighting men as a result of such training."

The official repertoire appeared in a USGPO publication called "Songs of the Soldiers and Sailors." The closest it came to shanties were "Sailing, Sailing" and "A Life on the Ocean Wave."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 08:34 PM

Here is more about the popularization of chanteys via the U.S. Merchant Marine of the time, foreshadowing the appearance of chanteys on record.

1918        Unknown. "Carrying the Sea Atmosphere Inland." _Shipping_ 5(7) (16 November 1918): 13-5.

//
Folks back home at Bangor, Maine, or Mesa, Arizona, who have boys in the Merchant Marine, may soon hear real sea songs, as they now look on scenes aboard ship, without leaving their own neighborhood —sailors' "chanteys" are being preserved on phonograph records for home use—life on square-riggers, cargo steamers and merchant marine training ships, has become material for the "Movies"—altogether an interesting phase of a "back to the sea" movement of national proportions.
…In this educational effort for it is such, purely, undertaken from various angles by various people, but under authority of the United States Shipping Board, official sponsor for the merchant marine --some novel effects are being worked out. For example, in due time it may be expected that sailors' songs and sailors' "chanteys"--as sung in forecastles and at tasks on deck when Jack the merchant mariner was a personage afloat and ashore, as he is getting to be again --will be reproduced in the records of the family phonograph.

"Chanteys" for the Music Machine.

Chantey singing is being revived in the merchant marine, at least on the training ships which are preparing Young America, at the rate of 4,000 lads a month, for service on our vast new commerce fleets, and under the new order of things it will be possible for Bangor, Maine, and Mesa, Arizona to hear in the same hour the actual notes and phrases of such famous chanteys as "Shenandoah," "Bound for the Rio Grande" and "Blow the Man Down," for the record may have them hard and fast before spring flowers bloom again. …
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 08:15 PM

Lighter --

Could the distinction there, in your neighbour's case, have been between Navy and Merchant Marine?

***

Here's an announcement that I would guess fairly well dates the time when Stanton King was first appointed Merchant Marine chanteyman. Interesting that his reputation (at the Sailors' Home) preceded him, and I wonder if we might consider him one of the people who proverbially "kept shanties alive" during what seems to have been a gap period in the U.S. I recall the interest in chanties in some American articles from the turn of the century, but most of the other interest in evidence in the first couple decades was coming from Britain.

1918         Unknown. "Official Chantey Singer." New York Times (27 Jan. 1918). Pg. 46.

//
A new war job under the sun has
been created. It is Official Chantey
Man for the American Merchant
Marine. Stanton H. King of Boston
has been appointed to revive singing
among merchant sailors who will
Join the country's new cargo ships
through the United States Shipping
Board Recruiting Service. Chanteys,
sea sharps say. insure team work when
a crew is pulllng on ropes, even aboard
a steamer, while the bullding of a large
number of American schooners means
increased demand for men who can "reef, hand, and steer" on sailing vessels,
where chantey singing used to
flourish.
    Mr. King is probably the best known
chantey singer in the, country. He is
now the head of the Sailors' Haven
Mission at Charlestown, Mass., widely
known for its religious work among
sailors. Chantey singing is a part of
the service, and many go there to hear
Mr. King lead his sailor friends in
"Bound for the Rio Grande" or "'Blow
the Man Down." The Official ,Chantey
Man is an old salt and learned chantey
singing in its home, on board deep-sea-golng vessels.
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Lighter
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 10:05 AM

On another thread long ago and far away, I mentioned my neighbor who, as a navy recruit, had trained on the Constellation in 1918.

He said the only time he'd heard any singing was when "drunk and on liberty." Possibly compulsory mass singing wouldn't have counted.

He couldn't remember any specific songs, but he was sure that nobody was caroling shanties.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 07:01 AM

1918        Collins, James H. "Vikings of the Future." _St. Nicholas_ 45 (10) (August 1918).

Another mention of the merchant marine training program set up by Howard, and the role of chanteys.

//
… Only men of draft age—twenty-one to thirty —are taken, and the novices are taught the rudiments of their new calling in six weeks of intensive instruction aboard one of the training-ships.

There are four of these training-ships in commission now, three of them located at Boston and one at San Francisco, while others are to be stationed at Norfolk, New Orleans, and Seattle. They are big, comfortable, roomy ships. One is a former ocean greyhound which held some speed records in her day. Another, the Calvin Austin, a former coastwise passenger-ship, with her load of recruits in training was the first ship to reach Halifax after the disaster there.

The young man who takes this training is equipped with a uniform and receives thirty dollars a month while he is in training. The students are grouped in squads of ten, with an instructor for each squad. Eight hours a day are consumed in the study of the compass, knots and splices, the nomenclature of ships, both sail and steam, the handling of life-boats, and other important things…

Mr. Howard has put spirit into the training by reviving the old sailing-ship practice of chantey singing. The sea chantey is a slow, melodious song whose measures fall into the rhythm of a gang of sailors hauling on a rope. Mr. Stanton H. King, of Boston, an old deep-water sailor, is the chantey instructor; and now on our modern, standardized, steam vessels of wood or steel, or even concrete, are to be heard such ancient windjammer tunes as "Shenandoah," "Blow the Man Down," and "Bound for the Rio Grande."
//


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 28 Sep 11 - 06:23 AM

1918        Howard, Henry. "Manning the New Merchant Marine." _Pacific Marine Review_ 15 (August 1918).

By the Director of Recruiting, U.S. Shipping Board.

Section on "Training Merchant Crews" gives the daily schedule on training (steam) ships. 6-9pm included recreation, about which it says,

//
Recreation includes singing, for each ship is supplied with a piano. The musical program includes old-time chanties, in which the young men are instructed by a veteran deep-water chantie man.
//

I would guess that the "veteran" was Stanton King – though it seems like more than one "veteran" would need to have been recruited.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 12:52 AM

Here's a sketch of the "most common" chanties of the 60s-70s-80s, from my charts...with the rationale being that most of Carpenter's singers would have been learning shanties in that era.

WHISKEY JOHNNY (25)

SHENANDOAH (22), REUBEN RANZO (22)

BONEY (21), BLOW THE MAN DOWN (21)

HEAVE AWAY MY JOHNNIES (20)

RIO GRANDE (19), GOODBYE FARE YOU WELL (19)

HAUL AWAY JOE (18)

SANTIANA (17)

JOHNNY BOWKER (15), BOWLINE (15), BLOW BOYS BLOW (15)

SALLY BROWN (14)

SACRAMENTO (12)

TOMMY'S GONE (10), MR. STORMALONG (10), BLACKBALL LINE (10)

DEAD HORSE (9)

PADDY ON THE RAILWAY (8), PADDY DOYLE (8)

As compared with this list, notably absent from the "top" shanties among Carpenter's singers are GOODBYE FARE YOU WELL and BLACKBALL LINE. As compared with this list, notably PRESENT in Carpenter's set are ALL FOR ME GROG, LONG TIME AGO, JAMBOREE, and HIGHLAND. The last *might* be explained by Carpenter's emphasis on Scottish locales (?). LONG TIME AGO is supposed to have been more popular in later days, i.e. 1890s, which is why it might not be in my list.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: The Advent and Development of Chanties
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 11:55 PM

Way back in his 1998 article, RY Walser gave a chart presenting the most common chanties in the Carpenter Collection. I can't tell if he meant that this tally came from only those chanties on audio recordings, or if it also included those for which there is text but no audio.

Walser's list (w/ my tags added, for comparison purposes):

//
Figure 1 lists the most numerous shanties, shown in order of frequency, of which recordings survive in Carpenter's collection.

Blow the Man Down [BLOW THE MAN DOWN]
Haul Away Joe [HAUL AWAY JOE]
Ranzo [REUBEN RANZO]
Whisky Johnny [WHISKEY JOHNNY]
Santy Anna [SANTIANA]
Blow Boys Blow [BLOW BOYS BLOW]
Bonnie Hielan Laddie [HIGHLAND]
Sally Brown [SALLY BROWN]
Poor Old Man [DEAD HORSE]
Shenandoah [SHENANDOAH]
Boney [BONEY]
Jamboree [JAMBOREE]
Leave Her Johnny [LEAVE HER JOHNNY]
Run Let the Bulgine Run [RUN LET THE BULGINE]
Tom's Gone to Hilo [TOMMY'S GONE]
Heave Away Me Johnnies [HEAVE AWAY MY JOHNNIES]
Paddy Doyle [PADDY DOYLE]
Haul for the Grog [ALL FOR ME GROG]
Rio Grande [RIO GRANDE]
Johnny Boker [JOHNNY BOWKER]
//

I've drafted my own list based on my work with the available info. It includes any shnty-form for which there were at least 6 instances. Ranked from most to least common. The number following the names, in parenthesis) tells how many instances there were. The number with "W" refers yo the ranking on Walser's list.

1. (W1) BLOW THE MAN DOWN (26)

2a. (W4) WHISKEY JOHNNY (17)
2b. (W6) BLOW BOYS BLOW (17)

3. (W3) REUBEN RANZO (14) + REUBEN RANZO?

4a. (W8) SALLY BROWN (14)
4b. (W2) HAUL AWAY JOE (14)

5. (W5) SANTIANA (13)

6. (W7) HIGHLAND (13)

7. LONG TIME AGO (11)

8a. (W19) RIO GRANDE (10)
8b. (W16) HEAVE AWAY MY JOHNNIES (10)

9a. (W9) DEAD HORSE (8) + DEAD HORSE?
9b. BOWLINE (9)

10a. (W15) TOMMY'S GONE (8)
10b. (W11) BONEY (8)
10c. (W18) ALL FOR ME GROG (8)

11a. SACRAMENTO (7)
11b. ROLL THE COTTON DOWN (7)
11c. MR. STORMALONG (3) + MR. STORMALONG? (4)
11d. (W20) JOHNNY BOWKER (7)
11e. (W12) JAMBOREE (7)

12a. (W10) SHENANDOAH (6)
12b. (W17) PADDY DOYLE (6)
12c. (W13) LEAVE HER JOHNNY (6)
12d. HUNDRED YEARS (6)
12e. HUCKLEBERRY HUNTING (6)
12f. A ROVING (6)

(W14) RUN LET THE BULGINE


Like Walser, I found BLOW THE MAN DOWN the most. As earlier discussed, Carpenter wrote an article on variants of that chanty, and I wonder if maybe it was a personal mission of his to collect as many variations as possible. We don't know (?) his exact fieldwork methodology, and it may have been that he influenced what songs were sung, say, by requesting them or reminding informants about them.

Anyway, it's hard to compare my list and Walser's precisely, because his does not indicate ties in the ranking. Sure, it's only a rough guide. FWIW however, we may note that LONG TIME AGO, BOWLINE, SACRAMENTO, ROLL THE COTTON DOWN, and MR. STORMALONG (among the first 20 of my list) did not make his set. I'm not sure why. And his RUN LET THE BULGINE did not make my list.

The one surprise for me was the frequency of ALL FOR ME GROG, which up to this point has not appeared in this survey of chanty literature. Could this be another song that Carpenter perhaps requested from informants? Might he have filed it incorrectly as a shanty? Again, I am not sure.

One can also compare the repertoire to my list of shanties SO FAR most common up through the 1880s.

WHISKEY JOHNNY (20)

REUBEN RANZO (16), SANTIANA (16), SHENANDOAH (16)

BLOW THE MAN DOWN (15), CHEERLY (15)

BOWLINE (14)

BONEY (13), GOODBYE FARE YOU WELL (13), HAUL AWAY JOE (13), HEAVE AWAY MY JOHNNIES (13), RIO GRANDE (13)

SALLY BROWN (12), STORMY (12)

MR. STORMALONG (11)


Blow the Man Down was certainly common, but Carpenter's set seems skewed. "Blow Boys Blow" also has a high ranking in Carpenter, and it's another that, judging from his writing, he took particular interest in. "Shenandoah" was lower in the rankings of Carpenter than one might expect, and I might speculate that it was a little more common with American singers rather than the British singers that Carpenter interviewed. "Cheerily Men" is poorly represented in Carpenter's, which we know to be because it was a song of an earlier era.

I supposed I'd have to compare only the chanteys of the core time of Carpenter's singers -- 1860s, 70s, 80s -- for a better representation of the similarities and differences.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
Next Page

  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 1 May 12:24 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.