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BS: Muslim prejudice
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 06 Jul 11 - 04:28 PM "Don, this discussion is ABOUT the involvement of BPs in this crime." This discussion is supposed to be about "Muslim prejudice" (take a look at the title) of which you have displayed enough to tightly pack a Nuremberg rally. You are now trying to steer it away from your own racist utterances and are still hiding behind your hand-picked experts in order to do so. Please don't try and manipulate this thread to suit yourself - you've already led a thread drift to publiciase your racist agenda by the sheer weight of your postings. People will decide whatever they choose to discuss without your attempted manipulation. Despite your pompously propriortorial attitude, this is not your thread, created to serve your personal prejudices. "He was latterly known as Manjusvara." Oh dear - not the old "some of my best friends are...." line; how stomach-heavingly patronising. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 06 Jul 11 - 02:08 PM Don, this discussion is ABOUT the involvement of BPs in this crime. How can I discuss that and defend the over-rep without referring to them. Remember it started with Straw specifically referring to BPs in connection with it. Likewise Cryer, Shafiq, Ahmed, Wilmer, Bindel, Norfolk, A-B, etc. Not on holiday Jim, but attending the funeral of an old and dear friend. He was latterly known as Manjusvara. You might want to Google him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: GUEST,livelylass Date: 05 Jul 11 - 02:32 PM I believe Stringsinger raised a potentially relevant point recently in this thread re: the role of religion in the oppression of women worldwide. It is a point I agree with. As a woman, I find all patriarchal religions troubling, both at this time and in the past, both here in the West and abroad. I believe that they tend to do a huge disservice to women worldwide, whether it be the Catholic promotion of incessant childbearing upon African women or routine female clitorectomy as practiced in many Muslim countries. While there may be no direct relationship between religious indocrination and the crimes under discussion on this thread, I would suggest that religious intolerance of freely expressed feminine sexuality, and indeed the entire othering concept of a woman as a "slut" or "cheap whore" is one inherited from religious prejudice. Does God Hate Women? Well, personally I think He does: http://standpointmag.co.uk/node/2041/full?page=1 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 05 Jul 11 - 06:41 AM ""You decide I am racist, so it does not matter that I make only non-racist and anti-racist posts, and never make racist ones."" No, I don't decide anything of the sort, and in point of fact until that last post, I have argued the issues without directly accusing you of racism as such. However, if you persist in trying to isolate one particular race, British Pakistanis, and assert that their specific culture renders them liable to be a danger to children and young people, then observers are justified in asking why other racial groups with identical cultural and religious backgrounds do not register on your radar. This brings up the question of your motives, and leads to the suspicion which has grown around your choice of, and insistence upon, this theory to the point that you ignore and ridicule all suggested alternatives. You engender further suspicion by denying responsibility for your recorded statements, and hiding behind a bunch of "sources" (chosen by you), who never went to the lengths you did in drawing conclusions, and would probably be horrified at being linked with those conclusions. In conclusion the duck analogy stands. You will (we all will) be judged by what you say and do, not by what is left after you shift the blame to others who have never agreed to your theory and never heard of you. It's your own mess Keith, and that's why this thread is as long as it is. You made this about you and your theory, so in future you might like to think a bit more before saying things like ""Don I do now believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency......"", because they are expressions of YOUR point of view and I'm afraid that you own them, like it or not. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 05 Jul 11 - 03:53 AM Sir - sir - didn't you forget to give us all 100 lines for being bad children? Just about caps your "My work is done here", when you tried to defend wartime British establishent fascists!! Have good holiday sir. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Jul 11 - 03:05 AM More empty name calling. Another lie ("You've made your racists point ") Where? When? And no reference to any issue or any argument, just me. So, no change there Jim. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 05 Jul 11 - 02:24 AM "Use it to construct a challenge to what I have actually argued." You conceitedly self-important puffed-up little burk. You've made your racists point cleary enough not to be misinterpreted - it's fallen on deaf ears. As I said, shut the door as you go out. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Jul 11 - 02:07 AM "My last post sums up your claim that "all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency" towards paedophelia. " But I never did claim that. That is why it is not on the list. You lie. I was and am referring only to this crime which I have never linked to paedophilia. I claim only that BPs are over-represented in it. That claim is vindicated by every bit of research including CEOP. Address the issues Jim and cut out this hate campaign of lies. Off line for a couple of days. Use it to construct a challenge to what I have actually argued. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 05 Jul 11 - 01:36 AM "Not once have I suggested that BPs are any more prone than anyone else." What, not "massive" or "massive"; where have you suggested that we are all culturally linked to paedophelia? "I stated repeatedly that they are not." Where? "I stated repeatedly that I, like other experts....." Since when have you been an expert - you said you were ignorant on the subject - I agree with you totally - about the only thing you got right. "Your repeated claims that I have linked BPs with paedophilia is an evil lie." My last post sums up your claim that "all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency" towards paedophelia. you haven't explained it, you haven't denied you made it, you have not even acknowledged it, you ignored it - the vileness, the filth and the lies are all yours. You have set out smear British Pakistanis by directly linking the culture of "all" of them with paedophelia to a "massive" or "massive, massive" degree (your own words); you have failed to do so. "I state, unequivocally, that I do not." Denial is not proof - ignoring your own statements is - you have proved our point for us. Your point, quoted back at you dozens of times, is a racist one; you have made racist statements; your stance throughout has been a racist one; you have failed miserably and now embarrassingly desperately, to make your case. Shut the door as you go out. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Jul 11 - 01:34 AM I am going to be off line for a couple of days. Don, I think you must have missed this. Here is every use of a word beginning "paed" by me in connection to BPs in this thread. (except when quoting you 3 who use it in nearly every post, so desperate are you to make the smaear stick.) 24th Jan. Paedophilia is not endorsed,(by Islam) 22nd March Lively, I agree about it not being necessarily paedophilia 25th March The offenders were not viewed as paedophiles but had picked the girls 'because of their malleability' 21st April The contention is that children are easier meat than older girls, not that the offenders are necessarily paedophiles. 21st April Jim, I just told you that paedophilia was not a contention! 9th June Also, it is suggested that children are targetted because they are easy meat, not because of paedophilia. 11th June I have repeatedly told you that I acknowledge that paedophilia is mostly a white crime. 14th June Most paedophiles in this country are white, 18th June No-one here has ever claimed a link between paedophilia and culture. 19th June Jim, I keep telling you that I do not regard participation in this form of abuse as evidence of paedophilia. 20th June Paedophilia is not a crime Don. It is a condition. I do not think these offenders are driven by it. 22nd June I keep telling you that I am NOT postulating paedophilia. Why do you keep on about it? 25th June I have stated repeatedly, since January, that I do not regard paedophilia as an issue in this. 25th June You said I accused BPs of paedophilia. That was and is a lie. I never did, and don't. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 05 Jul 11 - 01:09 AM That defies logic Don. You decide I am racist, so it does not matter that I make only non-racist and anti-racist posts, and never make racist ones. There is another explanation for the absence of any racism in any of my posts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 04 Jul 11 - 05:42 PM ""Against that there are about twenty posts, from January onwards, where I state, unequivocally, that I do not."" You can say it twenty, two hundred, or two thousand times, but it don't necessarily make it true. As with so much else that you try to beat into peoples' heads with the sheer weight of multiple posts, there is ample evidence to the contrary. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jul 11 - 04:53 PM Five and a half months. Several posts a day from me. You find one post, from months back, to use against me. It does not even mention paedophilia! You take a whole screenful of closely argued tosh to make a case that it links BPs with paedophilia. Against that there are about twenty posts, from January onwards, where I state, unequivocally, that I do not. You have failed to make a case. It is just lies. Your case is a lie. And even if it were true, why not counter my arguments instead of just saying racist? Why not discuss the issues instead of me for a change? Because you can't! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jul 11 - 04:26 PM Jim, I posted my every use of words related to paedophilia. Not once have I suggested that BPs are any more prone than anyone else. I stated repeatedly that they are not. I stated repeatedly that I, like other experts quoted, do not link this crime with paedophilia at all. I stated repeatedly that kids were targeted because they were "more malleable. "Easy meat." Your repeated claims that I have linked BPs with paedophilia is an evil lie. Your whole case against me is a filthy, vile lie. So, no change there then. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jul 11 - 04:16 PM Steve, I refuted all your other comments at the time. I am not, and never was making any other case but the over-rep. As I said to you then, as you accept the over-rep I have no other issue with you. I was not and am not pushing all those things you accused me of. My case was, and is, just the over-rep. You accepted it. We are done. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Jul 11 - 02:22 PM "If you have to lie, you clearly have no case. " This discussion has now been permanently entered into the archives of utmost idiocy. "Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency". When you can show us that; "Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency" does not mean that they are culturally inclined to paedophelia; that; "all male Pakistani Muslims" does not throw suspicion on every male Pakistani Muslim; that; "I do now " believe" makes it your belief and nobody elses; and that the whole statement; "Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency"; is not a racist stereotyping accusation which suggests that every single male Pakistani Muslim is culturally inclined towards paedophelia and has to resist their cultural inclinations. you might then have a case This is your statement; it is aimed at all British Pakistani men, it puts them all under the suspicion of being paedophiles, and it is racist - show us how this is not the case. Couple this fact with your further statement that there is a "massive" or a "massive massive" over-representation of British Pakistanis in the crime and you present us with an ethnic group in Britain who can never be trusted near children; show us how this is not the case. You have made the statement, the implications of what you have written are plain; show us how you have not cast suspicion on all male Pakistanis. Your adding; "...and always acknowledging that only a tiny minority succumb." adds insult to injury and makes no difference whatever to your accusation - according to YOU it is a "culturally implanted tendency" which they have to resist. Your pathetic gibberish in attempting to explain how it is possible to make a statement, deny you have made a statement and finally claim to be neutral, all in the space of half a dozen postings, confirms your idoitic stance as the idiocy it is. It is you who has lied and who continues to lie Now - one by one, explain these above facts. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Jul 11 - 11:56 AM You forgot to quote the rest of that March 17 post, Keith. I accused you of misrepresenting then and you're at it again now. Here's the bit you left out: What's wrong is the gloss you're putting on it, your focus to the exclusion of all other sex crime in this country. You seem to be on a mission to besmirch one particular small group of people. That could be racist for all I know. It's down to you to defend that stance and you have signally failed to do so, which is why you are being confronted with scepticism by so many people. It doesn't help when you blatantly misrepresent what people post, as here, either. Nothing's changed, has it, which is why I butted out of this thread ages ago. Till now, of course, following your unwelcome dredging up of what you wrongly interpret to be past "evidence" in your favour. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jul 11 - 05:10 AM A large number, many hundreds, of children were groomed and gang raped by BPs in certain northern cities over the last ten years. I had to keep saying it because you and others either deny it or say it is not significant. Do you still deny it? Do you think it significant? Do you think it racist? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Steve Shaw - PM Date: 17 Mar 11 - 02:20 PM When have I ever denied it? Or said it was insignificant? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Steve Shaw Date: 04 Jul 11 - 04:40 AM I haven't accepted anything. Do not construe silence as agreement. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jul 11 - 04:06 AM Steve Shaw, Jon Freeman, MtheGM, Dave the Gnome, have all accepted. Driven people away? I just keep saying there is an over-rep and putting up evidence. I only carry on because you 3 keep denying it. Now, about why you had to lie about me Jim? If you have to lie, you clearly have no case. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 04 Jul 11 - 03:26 AM "Jim and possibly you are the only ones still denying it. " No Keith - you've driven everybody else off with your lies, evasions, and refusal to take responsibilty for your own opinions, blaming them on somebody else. Must go - got a music festival to attend Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 04 Jul 11 - 01:19 AM That is the exact point Don. I do not quack like a racist duck. I am no racist so I do not say racist things. Put one up if I ever have. Likewise a lie. The last time you posted your theory of why the over-rep, I said I agreed with it if you just changed "small number of victims" to "large." There are known to be a very large number of victims. My only "crime" Don is to believe the over-rep to be real. Even on this thread, Lox, Jim and possibly you are the only ones still denying it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Don(Wyziwyg)T Date: 03 Jul 11 - 06:54 PM ""I along with all the others who forwarded suggestions why " Only Don has, and I mostly agreed with him."" Please do not pretend that you and I are in agreement about anything. If I recall correctly you referred to my alternative as "total nonsense" and "wild exaggeration", so don't try to play me off against Jim and Jon. You represent everything I hate about prejudice, bias and denigration of the different. You protest very loudly that you do not lie. I have proved more than once that you do......frequently! You protest very loudly that you are not a racist. Well, if you quack like a duck and you waddle like a duck, you shouldn't be too surprised if people take it on face value that you are a ruddy duck........or maybe one of the other breeds. Don T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 03 Jul 11 - 02:35 PM I was supposed to know that? It is not acceptable even for a member Jon. Try to show that my posts or arguments are racist, and I will challenge you. Let's leave personal attacks and name calling out of it. That is the rule anyway. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jon Freeman Date: 03 Jul 11 - 02:26 PM It is not acceptable, even for a member of this forum, to make a personal attack like that on a member. You were saying Keith? Please don't try to pull that one... I am member 4429. Anyway back to guest and back to out of this thread. Just wanted to show you... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 03 Jul 11 - 01:33 PM Jim, can I remind you that I stated that you lied about me to justify the slander of racism? Your whole post was lies. It had to be because the accusation of racism is a lie. You have been challenged many times by me and by MtheGm to justify your continuous use of that most despicable personal attack. You never have, and you still can not because it is a lie. Please start with the lie that my posts, " depict Pakistanis as cultural perverts" That is the nastiest lie of all. You can not produce such a post so common decency demands you withdraw the slander. You can not just make statements like that about people and ignore rebuttals. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: MGM·Lion Date: 03 Jul 11 - 12:38 PM Oh, I used to drink like everyone else, Jim; just suddenly went off it at 70, realising that I had never actually liked it that much, that it was an easy way to waste a lot of money if one wasn't really taking that much pleasure in it, and that it was often an advantage, as well as intrinsically pleasurable, to have a clearer head than one's company and no headachy feelings next morning. Had I realised all this earlier, I should probably have saved even more over a longer period; and expect I should nevertheless have survived the revival at that! I am not a teetotaller: will e.g. politely drink toasts in champagne at a wedding. But must admit to having been brought up short by the recognition of how much crime & anti-social behaviour [like, probably, I shouldn't wonder, the main subject of this thread] are in fact alcohol related. Yours in temperance but I hope not priggishly ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Jul 11 - 08:25 AM PS I'm informed by a fellow catter that someone is sendings racist PMs in my name - not me, but am not too concerned; it's always useful to know where the dog has shat before you put your foot down. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Jul 11 - 08:20 AM "I don't drink, Jim; so have one {or a couple!} for me." You don't?? How did you ever survive the revival - you wouldn't have lasted ten minutes in Ireland? Slante (can't do fadas yet!) Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 03 Jul 11 - 07:53 AM Why did the child abuse debate run for so long? I joined it 2 days in, just to speak out for the victims. The word "slut" had been used. I found that it was being denied that there was anything unusual going on, and I put up the evidence that the specific crime was worthy of discussion, and that there was an over-representation of one demographic group. Some people are still denying at least the over-rep part, so the debate may be exhausted on the evidence to date, but it is not decided. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: MGM·Lion Date: 03 Jul 11 - 07:17 AM I don't drink, Jim; so have one {or a couple!} for me. Le-Chaim! ~Michael~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Jul 11 - 06:59 AM "I think this thread would have been better closed months ago... " I'll drink to that - often! Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:58 AM Whither next for the thread? Is it still viable? I've just added to comments on the other topic but on reflection, I think this thread would have been better closed months ago... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:38 AM (you know they are not like us rather than a German, and therefore bad and or the cause of our problems) opps. I was going to type one thing, changed my mind but obviously didn't edit fully. I had intended it to read: (you know they are not like us, and therefore bad and or the cause of our problems) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: GUEST,Jon Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:33 AM but it seems that when religious bodies attain any degree of power and influence in the running of the state or the lives of ordinary people, there are those who will use that influence to evil ends I don't think that's a peculiarity of religion or that religion is the cause, Jim. I would say that nasty people have and will continue to use ANY difference (you know they are not like us rather than a German, and therefore bad and or the cause of our problems) to further their own ends and I do sadly agree that religion has got caught up in this far too often. The Catholic Church is still reeling under two reports which have uncovered a large number of cases of child abuse by the Catholic clergy, possibly going back at least a century. A further enquiry is about to be launched into the abuse of young women employees of The Magdelene Laundries. While I agree it was awful and inexcusable, I don't think it's the same type of abuse of power as above. I am from an Irish Catholic background and my interest in music has brought me into contact with many ordinary Catholics, largely older people. I have great difficulty in equating the kind, gentle friendships we have experienced over the last four decades with the behaviour of their church. I don't have your wealth of experience but I've played in a few good sessions where I've known Irish protestants and Irish Catholics are present. I agree some things are difficult to equate... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: MGM·Lion Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:33 AM The thread is surely becoming as repetitiously "Didn't!" - "Did!" as when Joe stepped in and deleted stuff before, isn't it? Stringsinger's intervention intro'd a new element; but not quite sure it fits on this thread, which began as study of a specific faith, and specialised itself at some stage as relating to that faith as instanced by the practices of a small & localised but significant segment of one demographic which practises that particular faith. Whither next for the thread? Is it still viable? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 03 Jul 11 - 05:21 AM Jon, you have labelled me as a racist on this forum, supported by Jim Carroll. It is acceptable to describe a post or statement as racist. It allows me to defend or withdraw it. It is not acceptable, even for a member of this forum, to make a personal attack like that on a member. Jim had posts deleted on this thread last month for that very breach of forum etiquette. The rule is, attack the argument not the person. I ask you again to reconsider what may have been posted in a moment of anger. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 03 Jul 11 - 04:33 AM "Your anti religion prejudice isn't going to help matters either... " I'm afraid I find myself in agreement with Stringsinger Jon. Religion should be a private matter left entirely to the choice of individual, but it seems that when religious bodies attain any degree of power and influence in the running of the state or the lives of ordinary people, there are those who will use that influence to evil ends. Historically, here in Ireland, there has been centuries of unrest, suffering, persecution and death in the name of religion. The Catholic Church is still reeling under two reports which have uncovered a large number of cases of child abuse by the Catholic clergy, possibly going back at least a century. A further enquiry is about to be launched into the abuse of young women employees of The Magdelene Laundries. If the church survives here it will be as a much reduced and changed body. I am from an Irish Catholic background and my interest in music has brought me into contact with many ordinary Catholics, largely older people. I have great difficulty in equating the kind, gentle friendships we have experienced over the last four decades with the behaviour of their church. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 03 Jul 11 - 03:05 AM Jon, how "savage" were Jim's posts against me? Is the term justified? I ask you to reconsider your opinion, taking into consideration that, I have made no racists posts or statements at all. My posts contain very many anti-racist statements. Everything I have said has also been said by high profile anti-racist BPs, and reported in all the media. I have not "selected." Also please remember that "racist" is not any kind of argument. You could believe someone was racist and just knock down their racists arguments, exposing them that way. (Difficult with me as I have not made any.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: GUEST,Jon Date: 02 Jul 11 - 07:43 PM Muslim prejudice seems to be coming from competing religious ideologies. Your anti religion prejudice isn't going to help matters either... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Stringsinger Date: 02 Jul 11 - 07:38 PM Muslim prejudice seems to be coming from competing religious ideologies. Extremist Christians seem to have an investment in denigrating mosques. The "Know Nothing" party of America's history was organized against Catholics by Protestants. Religious bigotry has an extensive historical role in the US. One religion seems to cast a blind eye toward their actions as they blame another for the very same actions they themselves commit. There are those who claim that one religion is better than another because of their employment of humane treatment. Historically, there is not much evidence for this view. One could substitute "race" for "religion" and come up with similar conclusions. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Jul 11 - 05:04 PM "- they depict Pakistanis as cultural perverts." A vile, filthy lie. Show ONE of my posts that does that and I will quit Mudcat. You can not. Vile, filthy lie. CEOPS figures, like Dando's, Wilmers and the rest, DO show a massive over-rep. We could discuss that issue, but that is not your style. "And contradicted by many hundreds more who were highly offended by the suggestion." If that is true, put them up. The FACT is I have found all there are. ""Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency......" Repeating the same old discredited lie, and resorting again to leaving ou half of the sentence making clear what was meant. Dishonest and deceitful. "I along with all the others who forwarded suggestions why " Only Don has, and I mostly agreed with him. "You deliberately ignored many more experts whose opinions not only disagreed with yours" Blatant lie Jim. If it is not, put one up. So here we are ignoring all the issues and arguing about me again. Your only reply to all my evidence is "racist" You are a one trick pony, and a shite trick it is. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 Jul 11 - 04:05 PM "I am racist you should substantiate the insult." You've already done that for us Keith hundreds of times over. "Most of my posts contain ANTI racist sentiments." No they don't - they depict Pakistanis as cultural perverts "How many times have I stated that the overwhelming majority of BPs are decent people who abhor this crime?" How can they be if they have cultural implants that they have to resist ("don't succumb to" in your own words) "I acknowledged they are UNDER-represented"" Two-faced shit as you have already claimed that they are a potential risk to children - you only made this statement when you were cornered by your own prejudice "My only case here has been to establish that the over-rep is real" No it wasn't; even if it could have been proved to exist (which it hasn't) you have overstated it over and over again as "massive" and "massive, massive". When CEOPS' self-confessed inconclusive and partial figures were revealed you even tried to claim they backed your argument. "Everything I have said has also been said by high profile anti racist BPS" And contradicted by many hundreds more who were highly offended by the suggestion. The fact that you have totally ignored what they had to say only underlined your racist stance, as did your totally ignoring the plea from your own witnesses that making the issue a racial or cultural one coulf only worsen the situation for the victims - cynical agenda-pursuing hypocricy of the worst kind, especially when it is "helpless children" who are the victims, to use your own words. "IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY ONLY CASE!)" No it hasn't - if it has where did this come from? "Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency......" "He never offered any opinion but one. Racism." And you continue lying, as you have about others who you have claimed put no case. I along with all the others who forwarded suggestions why a handful of young Pakistanis behave as they have done; not only have you ignored what has been suggested, but you have lied about me and others making suggestions. You are renowned for ignoring what other people write when it suits you - want me to let you have some of the other complaints? In this case it is further proof of your manipulative and dishonest behaviour in trying to prove British Pakistanis are cultural degenerates. My opposition to your racism was because I have never known anybody put such a sustained effort into maligning a whole culture; one more time: "Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency......" "His main tactic, trawling months old post for anything to use against me." And you, single-handedly have kept this foul thread going for months and have never withdrawn any of your racist smears. "I have not selected experts," Yes you have - you've carefully selected unsubstantiated opinions and anecdotal evidence, and when their opinions didn't suit your case you left th awkward bits out; as fervently as you praise their expertise you even ignored their advice not to make it a racist issue. You deliberately ignored many more experts whose opinions not only disagreed with yours, but took great offence at the suggestions you have made off your own bat and supported from your hand-picked team. "Now show where I have showed racism or withdraw the slander. " As I said, you've done the job for us, over and over again. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Jul 11 - 03:03 PM We are all entitled to opinions about each other, but if you say I am racist you should substantiate the insult. I am no racist and have never made a racist post so it will be hard. Most of my posts contain ANTI racist sentiments. How many times have I stated that the overwhelming majority of BPs are decent people who abhor this crime? How many times have I acknowledged they are UNDER-represented in all other crimes including other sex crimes? Everything I have said has also been said by high profile anti racist BPS and given blanket media coverage. NO RACISM! My only case here has been to establish that the over-rep is real. Jon, you have accepted that so I have nothing more to discuss with you anyway. (I said the same thing to Steve Shaw on 17 Mar 11 - 03:14 PM when he accepted it. IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY ONLY CASE!) Savaged? That is not too strong a word for the abuse I received for posting here what has been already been published everywhere else. Jim Carrol has just reiterated that his only case has been about me. He never offered any opinion but one. Racism. His main tactic, trawling months old post for anything to use against me. I say there is an over-rep. I have not selected experts, I have quoted and/or linked to the statements of ALL the people who have been widely reported on this. Now show where I have showed racism or withdraw the slander. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Jim Carroll Date: 02 Jul 11 - 11:20 AM "I thought the issue the over-rep and reasons for it" Nope - the issue has always been that YOUR attempts to depict British Pakistanis as cultural perverts and are now resorting to gibberish to attempt to explain why you have denied doing so, admitted doing so and finally pleaded neutrality. Obsession, to me is somebody who keeps alive a thread as long as you have in an attempt to denigrate another race - there is no rational discussion to be had with such pervs as far as I've concerned, especially those who would do so using abuse victims as a wweapon. "Keith, I now firmly believe you are a racist." Join the club Jon, but there's a long waiting list. Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: GUEST,Jon Date: 02 Jul 11 - 05:45 AM And Keith, in case there is any doubt as to where I stood before trying to discuss the theory in this thread and finding it impossible with your using of selected experts, avoiding direct answers, etc.. I will refer back to the Bin Laden thread where you were accused of being racist: Subject: RE: BS: obit: Osama Bin Laden ??? You've certainly changed my opinion from that point! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: GUEST,Jon Date: 02 Jul 11 - 04:57 AM So why are you all savaging me for putting it in a folkies forum seen by almost no-one? For heavent's sake, I made the effort to attempt reasonable discussion with you yesterday and thought I'd got things back on track. My opinion is my honest opinion and I see nothing in it that "savages you". Don, the only other contributor to this leg has said nothing to "savage you". You want to carry on with your British Pakistani theories fine. I'll try to stay out of this thread from now on. But know this. As you are prepared to twist my reasons for thinking "cultural conclusions" are not a good idea into a savage attack on you, you have lost the benefit of the doubt I've given you up to now. Keith, I now firmly believe you are a racist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Jul 11 - 02:23 AM I doubt there are more than ten of us who are reading this, and our daughters have daughters of their own. A bit late to lock them up now. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 02 Jul 11 - 02:06 AM The link to culture had already been made and given blanket coverage by all the media and national broadcasters. So why are you all savaging me for putting it in a folkies forum seen by almost no-one? Why was this argument not launched against BBC, Guardian, Observer, Independent and all the others? Just me. Are you confusing me with a media mogul, or is this just a personal vendetta? It certainly feels like a personal vendetta. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice From: GUEST,Jon Date: 01 Jul 11 - 04:13 PM Are you suggesting that is my POV? I am suggesting that is how a statement drawing a "cultural conclusion" could be interpreted and that it is a bad idea to dive in with guesswork. |