BS: Muslim prejudice

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 02:07 AM

Ollaimh, you know nothing about us, yet you hate us with a vengeance.
Had you used my links, or Googled Ahmed yourself, you would know that he is no blue blood aristo!

He is a BP and the son of an immigrant.
He is a lifelong socialist who has worked tirelessly for the poorest of that community.
The Labour party put him in the Lords to continue his work there.
No better witness. Why do you dismiss and discredit such a man?

Don, I made no ad hominem attack, just a generalised insult to people unable to distinguish culture and race.

Unlike other "istans" Pakistan is not named for any single tribal group.
It has been a separate country only since the partition.
Pakistanis in Britain form a well defined and distinct cultural group.
First cousin marriage for instance is part of their culture but not based in Islam or any racial characteristic.

Don, when you flounced out you threw a groundless slur on many contributors.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Feb 11 - 01:50 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 10:34 PM

Don T: "A perfect example of what GonefromSanity refers to as pre-pubescent name calling. Hold on a minute though Keith, aren't you supposed to be one of the righteous debaters who doesn't indulge in ad hominem attacks?"


Gosh, and being somewhat amused...was that a compliment?..because I was ACCURATE in describing a reality??.....or an opportunity to use my words to illustrate clearer, some 'name calling' by innuendo, that You're attempting?..or both??...nonetheless, you're use of "GonefromSanity" demonstrates you're own participation in such activities, (as per fore accurately describe by me), and puts you in a rather awkward circumstance!...not only that, if I'm "GonefromSanity", but accurate, and you call accuracy, "GONE", well, (and with a big grin on my face), May I suggest you, that if you are so disconnected from separating and equating accuracy (in the calling of a situation),....and then proceed to do the same thing, without the awareness of what you are doing........well, need I say more????

Gee, I wonder if that kind of error occurs in the assimilation of other thoughts, too...maybe 'religion' or 'political stances'.....seems to me, that you might double check your logic and reasoning mechanisms!!!

BUT, It was good for a chuckle!

GfS('f' as in 'from'...maybe a couple of other things, too...(wink)

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 08:13 PM

""If he does, he fears that being taken as an admission that he is racist."

Only by a moron!""

A perfect example of what GonefromSanity refers to as pre-pubescent name calling. Hold on a minute though Keith, aren't you supposed to be one of the righteous debaters who doesn't indulge in ad hominem attacks?


""I am supporting a view put forward by others, many of Asian origin, that is based on culture and NOT RACE.

And, as that jibe is unsustainable, Lox leaves.
Again.""

Culture, not race eh?

So that'll be why you insist on the dehumanising term "BPs" ("BRITISH PAKISTANIS") whenever you speak about this "CULTURE!!""

Last time I looked "Pakistani" WAS A RACE , and I don't think that has changed in the last two weeks.....DO YOU?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 08:07 PM

Yep, that's how it was, and is all right.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: ollaimh
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 08:01 PM

lox getting into a debate with keith is pointless. he's as uneducated as heis ignorant.

i supose that when any western person commits a crime then thats a christian crime, is about as reasonable as stating that the "muslimcrimes" against young women are religoiusly based.

the real irony is a barron quoted in the beginning. a memmber of the british house of lords weighing in on racism and religious discrimination. that august body was onece the wold centre of religious discrimination and racism, as they scoured the world foe other peoples goods and cash under the old "laissez faire" empire(read military capitalism).

and that regime did organize widespread religious murder sexual abuse and genocide. of many examples is the ssystem of residential schools in north america run with government authority and by tyhe anglican, catholic and united churches. there over a century they had a death rate of fifty percent of the children in their care, mostly by neglicting the most basic healt precautions such as separating the infected with small pox, tuberculosis and other diseases from the healthy, but some openly beaten to death in front of the school to show an example. there was systematic sexual abuse--and sorry akenaton it was mostly hteresexual.

this is just one example. the children of abraham have no right to call names. they have participated directly and indirectly in the worst of the worlds abuses and genocides.

yes muslim countries have few protections against human rights abuse , but that is cultural and much like the situation with medieval christianity. that will likely change as they develop. especially in the west. in toronto the young ,muslims i knew were rarely much different in values that everyone else, in fact the major terrorist group arrested a few years ago was penerated by a young radically conservative muslim who acted as a mole and exposed them. he, though committed to salifist ideas, thought terrorism was wrong and evil and helped the police stamp it out when he was approached by the terrorst group to join.

now maybe people ought to occasionally consider that all these abrahamic faiths are medieval and sadly out of place in modern society. the old testiment is a litany of blood and genocie, the koran actually hasn't as much blood and gore but it has plenty. in the ten commandments god says he is a jealous god who will punish sinners unto the seventh generation--thatss an insane deity. and if you consider other cultures most have two classes of gods, devas and ashuras, of gods and titans etc. the jealous gods are the ashras and not generally viewed as worthy of worship.

i am certainly gatefull that i was untouched by the curse of christianity in myn upbringing. christianity pleads a lot of fime words when raping native or aborigional children, but the fine words don't mean a thing except that the christians who speak them are hypocrytes

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 04:14 PM

If you could possibly see your way clear to stringing a few sentences of English together in some kind of logical sequence I'd be more than happy to demolish your arguments for you. As you seem to not really have any, I shan't be holding my breath. How's the blood pressure these days? Have you got enough of the right substances to keep you going? Never mind, at least with friends like Achy...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 04:02 PM

I guess when immature idiot-morons can't address the issues, with a rebuttal, based on some sort of facts, or at least data, they tend to resort to what they last learned, in their developing stages of life, when dealing with conflict.......pre-pubescent name calling!

Do your homework, and stop calling ridicule on yourself!!!

Here, Steve, I'll reply for you......

"ewwww, I don't WANT to do homework.....that's not as fun as watching cartoons, and resenting my family for 'bothering' me!"

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 04:02 PM

Well to be fair, there are similarities Steve, your thought processes do appear to be on the Prehistoric side.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 03:41 PM

Gosh, if you think Guessed from Insanitorium has nailed anything at all you're as barking as he is. It's such incoherent guff that one can't even begin to address it at all. Amusing, though, I'll give him that (unless it's a her, or even an it). And if you're a communist I'm a sabre-toothed tiger.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 03:20 PM

Yep.... thats just about nailed it GfS.....They use the same M.O. on every thread!

Frank....I think you are just a little off course on this one.
I was a Communist for most of my life, probably still am, they say you never get it out of your blood, but don't bracket us with these lunatics.....for that is what they are.
Lunatics who believe in self survival.....they know that "western values" will put an end to their power, that is why they are so bloodthirsty...they terrorise their people after brainwashing them.

I happen to think that much of what happens in Western Society is evil and I would like to change it completely but not in the manner of these hate mongers

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 03:12 PM

Incoherent and, sadly, barking. Absolutely barking. Say goodnight to the folks, Gracie...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 01:20 PM

Again, Steve is showing that he is more consumed with OPINIONS BASED ON A NEED FOR ATTENTION, than FACTS(remember those old things?)
The far left are using the Islamic 'cause' to further their agendas, and the same is true in the reverse...the only problem with that, is of course, when its all said and done, one of the two will have to turn on the other, because, to the 'left', when they finally decide to think it through(not one of their stellar attributes), they will finally figure out that the Islamic extremists, who seek totalitarian control of the rest of their religion, won't be going along with the 'social tolerances' that the 'left' has stored away for their political 'Utopian Dream'.....and besides that, then they will be the targets, for the sheer reasoning that the 'left' will still be considered 'infidels', and subjected to extermination!...its like two enemy horses trying to ride each other!!...but this is way above people like Steve figuring that out, on his own.....he'll just bitch, and blame a scapegoat, for trying to 'mislead' him!?!?

Just think, death penalty..for being raped, for dating the 'wrong' guy, because of his non-adherence to a particular sect, honor killings for what is THOUGHT to be bringing 'shame' on your family, (of loonies?), hands being cut off, for stealing, death for homosexuals, death because you exist, but are not Muslim....this is what you want?????????

The 'right' has their ills with all this too, but the truth is, BOTH sides are using ALL this to further an agenda, which is NOT pro-liberty, or pro-freedom!!!!

So stop all the stupid arguing about shit you don't even think through, (Not that that ever stopped you!)

Get a Life!!

GfS

P.S. Why don't you try doing some musical homework..so your 'music' doesn't end up sounding as irrelevant, banal and stupid, as you come off?!?!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 12:55 PM

Waaal, now, I dunno, String & Steve - whose worse? them Fundal Muslimentalistsisis, or them Ill Eagle Aliensesses??

Whose gonna distroy Amerika fust?

I sure wish them Commies wuz stll around- things wuz a lot easier back then.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 12:36 PM

Yup!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Stringsinger
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 12:33 PM

Muslims are the new Communists. It's the same old scape-goating for political purposes.

What we have to fear is the extremist fear-mongering of many Americans who are ill-informed and receive their information through Fox News.

The Tory party is well-known for their prejudices.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 12:29 PM

Well, I agree with your last point 100%, Steve; but I fear & suspect that 'wishing' will be as far as we get. And I agree that RC-ism has much to answer for. But I don't think there has ever been any Holocaust-denial in official Vatican policy; and I repeat that I don't think there is a Catholic country where it is a judicial capital offence to apostasise, or a Catholic tradition whereby young women are routinely killed by their supposed nearest & dearest for having different tastes and expectations with regard to marriage partners. And I feel we have here that sort of "Hegelian leap" whereby a quantative difference becomes a qualitative one. Islamism has just take their concept of their faith beyond all humanitarian reason, and I don't think replies of "Well what about ··· then?" are going to ameliorate this fact.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 12:04 PM

Well no, it does go slightly beyond asserting Catholic superiority. There's the pitching of millions of African women into grinding poverty and ill-health by virtue of the blinkered dogma on birth control for starters... the tacit suppport of the Vatican for the Nazis and hush-hush about the Holocaust and the facilitating of the escape of war criminals to South America... oh, don't get me started. Like I said, I just wish they'd all go away.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 11:33 AM

Drift ~ which Steve has started by trying to be clever about my nickname. Altho spelt slightly differently, Louis B Mayer, Sam Goldwyn's partner at MGM Srudios, was in fact my first cousin twice removed. i.e. my paternal grandfather's first cousin. I am still in touch with some Californian distant cousins. So the clever-clever use of the coincidence of my initials as a smartarse comment wasn't quite so bright, as the similarity of initials is not so adventitious after all.

I am interested in where Steve finds any 'infantile insults' in what I have written. I agree with him that all religion is nonsense; but maintain my view that some religions are more actively harmful to large sections of humanity than others. If Steve can really see no moral difference between 'honour-killing' of a daughter for bringing 'shame' to her family by wishing to marry out of her parents' faith, and often fatuous verbal propagandising for the superiority of one's own lot over others, then I call that an unfortunate deficiency in perception on his part. In what way this can be construed as an 'infantile insult', I do not know.

Despite the warning I received above, for which however I am not ungrateful, I think that Steve is probably a well-meaning man of principle, who happens to have let his inherent hatred of racism in any form rob him of his sense of proportion in this instance.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 09:38 AM

Well, Guest ex-Sanitary, you forgot to play the rest of that anonymous video, the bit where he says that all we can do about it is wage a world war against Islam. Nuclear, naturally. I note that Mr Video appears to be being used by you as his proxy (y'know, I accidentally typed "poxy" there!), as you yourself are distinguished by having never strung two rational sentences together. At least he was fairly articulate (though reading), unlike your good self, but excuse me for stopping my praise for him right there. Still, I enjoy your inanity, and your exclamation marks, so please continue.

As for you, MetrotheGoldwynMayer, you who wouldn't recognise logic if it jumped up and bit you on the arse, I am no defender of Islam and never have been. Neither am I going to get into some kind of contest to see who's worse, them or the Catholics. I wish they would all just go away. And that wish is predicated on my knowing what they get up to, so litanies of lurid examples are not required.

Can either you or your ally Guest insanitary (how do you feel about having such a friend, actually?) advise me as to which of your suggested medical practitioners I should go to first, the therapist or the optician? Or should we just all accept that your facile and bigoted arguments are tits-up in the water seeing as how you've both resorted to infantile insults?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 04:48 AM

Re "shame": the only shame really involved in all this unhappy business is that brought on their faith & their co-religionists by the small but vociferous, prominent and unhappily so effectual minority, the so-called Islamiist faction. There is where the true 'shame' lies. And if Steve and Don and GrottiLox can't see it, then a visit to the opticians would be advisable for them without delay.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 04:31 AM

No need to generalise from one particular case.
There are plenty right here in UK.
This from BBC site,date 2003.

There were 12 "honour killings" in Britain last year - six in London, according to Scotland Yard.

But Ram Gidoomal, of the South Asian Development Partnership charity, told BBC News: "There are many more that go unreported."

Victims were sometimes taken abroad before being murdered, he added.

It was estimated there were more than 13 honour killings worldwide every day in 2000.

Entire families can be involved.

And women have even been murdered for the "dishonour" of being raped.


The question for us is if Heshu had gone into a police station saying she felt at risk would she have been treated with the urgency her concerns warranted?

Metropolitan Police Detective Inspector Brent Hyatt
Mr Gidoomal told BBC News: "There was a case a few months ago, where a mother and her son took her daughter, his sister - and she was expecting - and murdered her in cold blood here in Great Britain."

This from the Independent, 2007.

For dozens of couples in the UK, such threats have become all too real. Police are now investigating more than 120 deaths they suspect of being "honour killings". It has been estimated that 12 women a year die in the UK as a result of such terrifying acts.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/love-that-can-be-lethal-muslim-couples-in-fear-of-honour-killing-455174.html

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 12:23 AM

MtheGM, You have to know this about Steve..he is so full of shit, and just likes to stir up stupid arguments on here....He is all over the place, saying he is an atheist, and God is moronic, and so are believers in such, offering no proof of anything, including 'intelligence', when asked to prove or disprove the 'unseen', then argues about the 'wonders' of Islam....as a religion!!!!??!!!?

He is in definitely serious need of professional help...being as he spends many lonely, frustrated hours on here, trying to get attention, to his normally boring existence!

That's all!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Feb 11 - 12:00 AM

I am afraid you are having some logic-farts to go with them, Steve. Two wrongs, as the proverb tells us, do not make a right. Especially when some wrong are so manifestly more wrong than others. Of course we all know RCs indulge in all sorts of propaganda for their faith as superior, the only true faith, &c.

Now provide an instance since the C17 of anyone judicially executed in any Catholic country for apostasy from that faith. Or of a Catholic daughter killed by her father, with the approval of the Church and its community, for wanting to marry a non-Catholic, or a statement that such a procedure brings 'shame' on the young woman's family.

And now deny that these are relatively commonplace events in Islam.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 11:54 PM

....and I'm NOT answering bullshit about this.....

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 06:50 PM

And the last paragraph of that should not be in italics. I'm having a positive gale of typing brain-farts. Shit, how to leave oneself open...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 06:47 PM

Sorry, the first line of that should have been in italics too. Only the last line is me.


Now this from achy Tony:

Just watching a BBC "Dispatches" documentary aqbout Muslim faith schools in the North of England......Tolerance dont make me laugh.

I urge all pro Muslim posters to view it on I player....then report back here and tell us that it is no more abusive or bigotted than Christianity!

I shall be waiting!

Well, achy, as it happens I went to a faith school (two, actually) meself in the north of England. Catholic they were. Oh, if only I had a video to show you the intolerance and bigotry we were treated to! Catholics were better than everyone else, don't play with the proddy kids from the school down the road, no non-Catholics can go to heaven... Now I respect people who follow the Muslim faith just as I respect those who claim to be Christians, though the respect is predicated at all times on what kind of people they are. I do not respect their organised religions in the least, which is an entirely different matter. They are all as bad as each other, so please spare us the "Islam-is-worst" bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 06:36 PM

Since I'm a racist bigot and you don't want to believe Lizzie, have a look at this on the BBC News website:

A 20-year old Pakistani woman who lived in northern Italy, she was murdered by her father who claimed he was "saving the family's honour".

Mohammed Saleem said he didn't like the way Hina was living her life and told the authorities she brought shame on his family.

So he slit her throat. Twenty-eight times.

. . . presumably that's OK - funny the judge disagreed with him and locked him up for 30 years.

She had the effrontery to eschew Islam and wanted freedom, so she died for it. Twenty eight times ??? He goes on to say he's a good father.

Yes, very, very unpleasant, Brian. Now I'm sitting here with bated breath waiting for you to generalise from this particular case. I just know you can do it. It's what all bigots do.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 04:12 PM

Just watching a BBC "Dispatches" documentary aqbout Muslim faith schools in the North of England......Tolerance dont make me laugh.

I urge all pro Muslim posters to view it on I player....then report back here and tell us that it is no more abusive or bigotted than Christianity!

I shall be waiting!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Brian May
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:21 PM

Since I'm a racist bigot and you don't want to believe Lizzie, have a look at this on the BBC News website:

A 20-year old Pakistani woman who lived in northern Italy, she was murdered by her father who claimed he was "saving the family's honour".

Mohammed Saleem said he didn't like the way Hina was living her life and told the authorities she brought shame on his family.

So he slit her throat. Twenty-eight times.

. . . presumably that's OK - funny the judge disagreed with him and locked him up for 30 years.

She had the effrontery to eschew Islam and wanted freedom, so she died for it. Twenty eight times ??? He goes on to say he's a good father.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 10:45 AM

In your dreams, Keith! I fear.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 10:27 AM

"Keith is in a catch 22 situation."

Oh dear!

"If he doesn't give up, he continues to show himself up."

I'll risk that.


"If he does, he fears that being taken as an admission that he is racist."

Only by a moron!
I am supporting a view put forward by others, many of Asian origin, that is based on culture and NOT RACE.

And, as that jibe is unsustainable, Lox leaves.
Again.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 09:30 AM

Come on, you two. Only five more last words to and you'll be Jesus.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 06:00 AM

You listen to someone as bitter, twisted and agenda ridden as Cobra, but not Jasmin Aibhai-Brown!
You only hear what suits you.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 05:55 AM

I'm going to take Cobras advice.

Keith beleives that British Pakistanis harbour a secret tendency to enslave and rape underage white girls in a way that is unique to them.

This arbitrary psychologcal profile is unsupported by any form of research or scientific evidence whatsoever and relies on the deliberate exclusion of criticism and other hypotheses to survive.

Keith is in a catch 22 situation.

If he doesn't give up, he continues to show himself up.

If he does, he fears that being taken as an admission that he is racist.


I can suggest a solution would be an admission that Straws and Cryers hypothesiis is a racist one.

But I suspect Cobra may be right that keith just needs the last word.

Its all yours Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 05:39 AM

Lox, how can you claim I am making a racial hypothesis?
I am not making it, and it is about a culture within a racial group.

Men are predisposed because there is no outlet for sexual relationships within the community, and no intimate relationship permitted outside.

But only a tiny minority, the weak and wicked, succumb.
Nothing to do with race, and the majority are completely innocent.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: cobra
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 05:16 AM

*Ah, that's better*

Lox, I think you have shown remarkable forbearance and patience in this thread. Your setting out of a logical, coherent, consistent explanation has been outstanding and I fully understand completely why you have done it and why you felt the need to do it.

However, you should know by now that you will never gain any accommodation from the keyboard warrior, Keith A - on a sofa somewhere - in Hertford. You will win the argument hands down. In fact you have already done so. The problem is that Keith The Armchair is only capable of diversion, mis-representation, deviation and failing to substantiate his wild and outlandish claims. His is a classic war of attrition and I honestly think he clearly believes that by wearing down his perceived adversaries he will have the last word and so will have won!

Ridiculous but true. But his time alone in his armchair clearly leaves him with a need for some form of social interaction. His approach on messageboards (well, to be absolutely accurate, THIS messageboard) suggests he will truly struggle to have any meaningful form of social interaction. Hectoring people and incessantly making outlandish arguments is not a recipe for success in that respect. Anyhoo, my point is that others - myself included - have chosen to ignore his tired and pathetic ramblings. Let him argue with himself. He will soon tire of it. Deny him oxygen for his increasingly lunatic posturing on this topic and on the topic of Northern Ireland and he will simply go away.

As with Ireland where, if memory serves, he spent a weekend at a wedding, his knowledge of British Islam and Muslims in the wider context is, I would wager, not based on any actual exposure to the people or to their faith or culture (too much trouble involved in setting down one's Daily Mail, getting out of the armchair and actually researching at first hand). Most rational people will base their opinions on more than an armchair assessment and allow a wider set of experiences to inform their opinions.

So, Lox, give it up. You have manifestly exposed the fatal flaws in the arguments put foward by the Armchair General, he will nevertheless not desist. You know this. Let him have the last word in his true schoolboy bullying fashion. Best just to let him fester in his own deluded mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: cobra
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 05:15 AM

Whya am I barred from posting anything longer than twenty five words in this thread?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 04:42 AM

"Lox, BPs are massively over represented in infant mortality and serious, crippling childhood disease.
First cousin marriage is a part of BP culture.
By accepted theory, it is to blame."


Genetic science has done decades of research into the effects of procreation between siblings and cousins.

This has been the result of the application of rigorous scientific testing.

Otherwise known as scrutiny Keith.

So it follows that where more cousins procreate, there is a higher chance of birth defects in that community.


This is the exact opposite to your position Keith.

Your theory that British Pakistanis are culturally predisposed to making sex slaves of underage white grls is unsupported by any research or testing of any sort ... EVER.

And in fact, its longevity relies on you ignoring my arguments and making shit up.


So - one theory is reliable and well supported.

The other is full of holes and totally unsuported.


Anothger false comparison keith driving the nail mever more firmly into the coffin of your hypothesis.

Will you ressurect it for yet another pointless autopsy?

I suspect so.


But Alan, despite this glaring problem in Keiths position, he states: "Alan, it is a fair precis of my views"


Now - even if there were evidence, it would still be a hypothesis that discriminated on racial greounds.

In which case it would have been the first ever successful hypothesis in history to discriminate on racial grounds.


But in this case, the racial explanation is not the only one available, and of those available, it is not even the best.


But Keith insists on shutting out all other possibilities, and is loyal to it regardless of a lack of evidence, and a TOTAL lack of reliability when exposed to scrutiny.


Now - you can understand why I would be concerned that he has stuck to his guns, through thick and thin to defend an unsupported, fundamentally flawed hypothesis that discriminates on racial grounds.


It is very strange.


Almost as strange as the PMs I have received from people impersonating moderators who have been trying to threaten me to "accept that keith has won" or face the consequences.


So Keith - in the absence of reliable evidence or a sound argument, what is it about a racist hypothesis that you find so attractive?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 04:36 AM

OK, a different path.....

Here you can listen to Christopher Lee talking about his portrayal of the founder of Pakistan, Quaid-e-Azam. He says how the film was never taken up worldwide, because of the situation regarding the bad side of Islam.....He also talks of hos Quaid was a man of great intergrity, honesty and vision....in the days before a strong, fundamentalist minority took over Islam and brought it to what it has now become, in the eyes of so many around the world...

Christopher Lee talking about his role as the founder of Pakistan


Here you can watch the entire film.......

His film 'Jinnah' - Part 1

'Jinnah' Part 2

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 04:09 AM

'Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency""

Well all I can say is keith, that you shouldn't have been convinced. The evidence is all around you that many Muslims live reasonably happy family lives and are useful decent members of our community.

If you categorise a whole racial group - you do lay yourself open to the charge of racism - and worse, the real bastards get under the radar. Someone does need to focus on them and work out the base from which they work, and counterract the considerable damage they are doing to our society.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:41 AM

Alan, it is a fair precis of my views, except that it does not say why I have been convinced by a few polticians, a writer, a victim support worker and policemen.

Ordinarily, I would not be so easily conviced.
Those witnesses are far from ordinary.
A reason should be given for discarding their input, other than the old jibe "racism."

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 14 Feb 11 - 01:28 AM

Lox, BPs are massively over represented in infant mortality and serious, crippling childhood disease.
First cousin marriage is a part of BP culture.
By accepted theory, it is to blame.

But, "A theory that wilfully and exclusively discriminates on Racial/cultural grounds is a racist one."

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 10:18 PM

===I was not debating with MtheGMm and his new nice as pie attitude belies the fact that he has never engaged with me on this forum except to either hurl abuse of some sort or to attempt to wind me up - this was the thread on which I decided I'd had enough.===

And with what exemplary charm and urbanity you did so, Goldilox darling: a real model of subtlety and wit for us all to follow, indeed.

♥❤Happy Valentine's Day, my little dilly-duckling❤♥

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 08:19 PM

A fair precis of your views, Keith?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 07:08 PM

Al,

"Its hard to see what this argument is about. Apart from the fact that you don't trust each other."

The argument is as follows:

Keith Believes that British Pakistani culture predisposes British Pakistani Men to the trafficking and abuse of underage girls in a way that other cultures don't.

He believes it is this culturally inherent tendency that has motivated the crimes of recent reported cases of trafficking of underage girls for sexual slavery.

To quote him in a response to Don: "Don I do now " believe that all male Pakistani Muslims have a culturally implanted tendency""

He bases this on the OPINIONS of 3 politicians and a journalist, none of whom are qualified psychologists or anthropologists and none of whom have done any research in this field.

He also bases it on an article which in fact argues an opposing view when read closely.

And finally he argues it on the basis of the HUNCHES of two police officers.

He ignores more probable cultural factors, he certainly ignores the probability of other explanations, and he presents no evidence that all other explanations are improbable.

He remains loyal to his hypothesis through thick and thin regardless of what is said, whilst ignoring opposing arguments, fabricating points of view on behalf of his opponents and coming up with increasngly far fetched analogies and comparisons.

I thoroughly dispute his hypothesis as it is groundless and discriminates on the basis of race/culture, to the deliberate exclusion of all other factors.

I hope that has clarified the matter for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 06:50 PM

Greg, In British law, a wife was considered the property of her husband and therefore Marital rape could not exist until paliament finally outlawed maritall rape in 1992.

You don't even need to look in religious text to find hypocrisy.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 06:22 PM

Of course, in Sharia law her husband was entitled to treat however he wanted.

Guess you heven't given the christian[sic] old & new testaments a close read, have ya, Liz?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 06:14 PM

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzz.....

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 13 Feb 11 - 05:24 PM

Keith,

that is the most absurd bit of nonsense logic that I have ever read.

Once again it is based on wrong assumptions about my argument (which you would not make if you went and read my posts).

When you are able to identify what aspect of British Pakistani culture is responsible for the crimes of Organized Trafficking Gangs, and when you can provide actual evidence that actually supports your hypothesis, AND when you can show that your hypothesis is the only possible alternative, then we can begin to have a discussion.


In the case of thuggees, it shows nothing about how "culture can sometimes be to blame". What a preposterous load of bollocks.

The case of Thuggees shows that Groups who exist to commit murder can be said to be inclined to murder.

Just as trafficking gangs can be said to be inclined to traffick.

Thuggees were a sect within Hinduism.

By your logic, hindus are predisposed to murder because some hindus are thuggees.

By your logic, British Pakistanis are predisposed to rape and trafficking because some British Pakistanis are in those gangs.



This is becoming more and more surreal.