BS: Muslim prejudice

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 02:03 PM

Agreed, Steve. It seems that some people just want to 'win'. Whatever that may mean to them. OK. I agree everyone else is right and I am wrong. There, see. You have won. Now can we stop this depressing argument and maybe use the time trying to help the victims? Perhaps even the perpetrators?

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 01:42 PM

That's right, and I think I'm beginning to think it's beneath whatever dignity I've got left to post to a thread containing such vicious, brainless bigotry.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 12:21 PM

meaning that Liz and Brian are telling fairy stories..?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:18 AM

And then the good fairy cast a spell on the bad witch and they all lived happily ever after.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Brian May
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 11:00 AM

Well said again Lizzie.

I worked for a year in Bangladesh, flying for their national airline as flight crew. I was appalled at how the crews treated their Cabin Crew.

They were both verbally and sexually abused. A captain can instantly end the career of any girl that refuses - this career is deemed an excellent chance to improve themselves and their circumstances. I was even offered a stewardess to be 'my friend' while I was in Bangladesh, I refused. These are all 'good Muslim men' all misogynists, all holier than thou.

Again, it is THIS I really object to. I don't like abuse full stop. I particularly don't like Muslims coming over here and acting like many of them do, I definitely don't like not being able to comment on it because I'd be accused of being a racist. What for? Telling it like it is? I don't think so.

So I am really pleased to see this realignment of values. I don't like politicians much either, but finally I am starting to hear that my particular viewpoint is coming into vogue.

Other people also object to the way these people act in OUR country, what's more, soon, we'll stop subsidising their hate campaign.

But if you misguided do-gooders out there wish to brand me a racist - then go ahead. I really hope that your disillusionment (when it comes) is not too close to you and yours. It's always easier when it happens to someone else.

Once more, well said Lizzie.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 10:53 AM

Oh go on Liz!

I will shower you with expensive gifts, dazzle you with my exciting lifestyle - your life will be transformed, and i will prey on yor naivety.

However, its probably fair to warn you that (due to my exotic racial origins) I will eventally make extravagany sexual demands. I can't help it - people from my culture are just like that.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Brian May
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 08:33 AM

Another quote: From Daily Mail this time:

French president Nicolas Sarkozy has joined David Cameron in condemning multiculturalism as a failure.
Cameron launched a scathing attack earlier this months on 30 years of multiculturalism in Britain warning that it fostered extremism.
His damning verdict came just months after German Chancellor Angela Merkel said that multiculturalism in Germany had failed.
Now Sarkozy has joined the growing number of European leaders who have adopted identical views on multiculturalism.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355961/Nicolas-Sarkozy-joins-David-Cameron-Angela-Merkel-view-multiculturalism-failed.html#ixzz1Dem66UHL

Perhaps soon, the indigenous population might be listened to, without the 'automatic' smear of being racist by disagreement with the minority who promote ethnic groups as being beyond (fair) criticism.

Perhaps the Baroness needs to reconsider what she thinks . . . or says.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:46 AM

And I agree with Al, how refreshing to read testimony based on substantial personal experience, rather than just endlessly repeated and entrenched dogma, and personal abuse, some of it appallingly aimed at the chronically sick and rooted in Ageism (which stinks just as badly as racism).

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:41 AM

Don't take up Al's offer, Lizzie - 'e drahns 'em in the barf! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:22 AM

Say something nice about me and you're on a promise!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 06:59 AM

PS Any chance of a romantic evening together?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Alan whittle
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 06:29 AM

Congratulations Lizzie. A lengthy piece of writing on this thread that is coherent, interesting and readable - and moreover expert testimony, as opposed to the 'two legs bad, four legs better' restating of entrenched positions, sprinkled with personal abuse.

You have raised the tone of the neighbourhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 05:22 AM

He only claims to have lived in "a Muslim area" for under two years.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 04:25 AM

And one thing that is fundamentally wrong is that some Muslim men think that ALL western women are 'up for it'. This is as racist (and depressing) as saying all Muslim men are misogynists.

However, I recognise that in my culture there is a great deal going wrong at the moment, and the lack of self-respect amongst young women is just one of those things. I'm appalled at how so many young people (and older too) behave these days.

I'm sure Sheikh Assaf would be equally appalled at how some Muslim men behave too, because it brings disrespect to him, as a Muslim, just as women having sex with complete strangers, in a drunken club night stupor, or flaunting themselves so blatantly, brings disrepect to me, as a woman.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 04:15 AM

Lox, you say you lived for a year in a Muslim country and were treated with much respect. Have you ever thought how different that year may have been had you been a woman?

I worked for around 10 years in Harley Street, London. Our patients were about 90% Muslim. In those days there were hardly any hospitals in The Middle East and so patients were sent over en masse to London, New York, all over the world, for treatment, but London was one of the major places.

I dealt with thousands of Arab patients, dealt with their Embassies too on a personal level.

As a woman I have to say that many of the male patients, interpreters and Embassy staff treated me with disdain and some were blatantly sexual in their behaviour towards me, one patient finding himself on the other side of the room after he'd dared to touch my body.

There are many Muslim men who have a foul opinion of Western women. There are many who are also foul to their wives too. How do I know? Because we used to see these poor lassies when they'd turn up for treatment for their sick hearts...and their horror stories would pour out to the doctor, through their female interpreters.

I always maintained the maximum aloofness, expecting the utmost respect from ALL of our male patients. In no way whatsoever did I ever encourage them sexually, or flirt with any of them, or any of the male interpreters. Amongst the 'good guys' on the Street, I was respected and looked after.

When I had to go to The Saudi Health Office, at the top of Harley Street, to discuss the huge unpaid bills, I was nervous, to be honest.
It was Ramadan..tempers were short. Each time a patient was seen by a doctor he gave us an official pink form. This was returned when we submitted the accounts on a monthly basis. Without this we were told we would not be paid. I refused to return the original copies, as way too many had mysteriously 'disappeared' once they'd reached The Saudi Health Office....so I always sent photocopies.

So, this time I was summoned to explain why I was no longer sending in the original forms. I went up there, armed with a huge folder of pink forms, the orginials. I sat down and showed them to the accounts section, who blatantly denied that any of these forms, or patients, were real.

I was then told the Chief Accountant wanted to see me. The whole place was filled with men. One of them I knew. Bassim was an interpreter, a really decent guy and he saw me there. He whispered to me that he'd go with me to the Chief Accountant's Office and he'd be right outside, should I need him.

I walked into that office and was looked up and down, as if I were a piece of meat. The smarmy bastard behind the desk looked at the patients, the bills, the tens of thousands of pounds his embassy owed my doctor.

Then, he closed his file.

He stared at me and said "You show me some honey, and I'll show you some money."

I told him where he could stick his honey...then went outside to Bassim, who escorted me out of the building.

I was shaking when I got back, so threatened had I felt. My doctor was a brilliant surgeon but utterly hopeless with people and he refused to make an official complaint.

Years later, that same Chief Accountant came to see me again. This time I was working for a Cardiologist and Cardiothoracic Surgeon. I told the Cardiologist what had happened years back and he listened intently. I showed the patient in. 30 minutes later my doctor came out and asked me to write a report for this man. He told me that the Embassy wanted to send him back to Saudi, after allegations had been made about corruption within the Health Office, and he, the patient, was worried about the condition of his heart, saying he was too ill to return home.

Dr. Spurrell smiled at the man, then told him to take a seat outside while he dictated a report to me. The report stated that the patient's heart was in very good health and therefore he could return home as soon as it could be arranged.

Justice sometimes takes a while to swing into action.

I have to say that I was treated with great respect by many of our Muslim patients and by many of the interpreters too. It was no less than I deserved.

I also have to say that at no time did any of our non-Muslim patients ever treat me in a disparaging, overtly sexual way, nor look down on me as being lower than a camel.

Whether you like it or not there is a huge problem with the way many Muslim men treat women, not only Western women, but often their own wives, sisters, even mothers. They are spoilt rotten as children, and are taught that men are the superior species.

Until the women of the Middle East rise together and say "ENOUGH!" this will sadly never change. Until you see an equal amount of women on the streets of the Middle East, in the shops, mosques and everywhere else, this will never change. Until the majority of Muslim fathers thanks Allah for the birth of their daughters in the same way he does for his sons, this will never change.

I spent too many years with Princesses and Peasants alike taking refuge in our office, because they'd not mix with the men in the waiting room, or being told to keep myself out of sight, when the Ruler of Oman came calling, as he didn't want to see women around...

Fuck that, I made damn sure I kept wandering, slowly, across the waiting room when he was around..looked him straight in his bad-tempered eye too...

I also have presents from dear and much liked patients. My Hermes scarf from Sheikh Assaf with the scarab on it still sits in my drawer to this day...lovely memoroies of an intelligent and respectful man who adored his wife and daughters.

Muslims & Misogynists are sadly bound together at the moment. It is up to the Good Muslims to shout out about this appalling outlook and to rectify it as soon as they are able.


And before you blow a gasket, Lox...I'd also like to add that I watched 'My Big Fat Gypsy Wedding' recently and there too, within the Gypsy Culture lies Misogyny, bigtime...The young men, when asked if they thought men and women were to be valued in the same way looked astounded. Women are second class you see...their lives are ones of housework and raising the children, little else. If they get divorced they are never allowed to re-marry, if they want to stay within in the community...They are 'grabbed' by the young lads who want to show they're interested in them, which means the men can touch the most intimate parts of their bodies, chase them, force themselves on them, all in the name of 'men's right's' don't ya know...

To deny that some cultures have an appalling attitude to women is ridiculous. It does not mean that ALL within that culture behave or believe in this way, but it does mean that the Good Guys need to make their voices heard as never before to stamp out misogyny, wherever it may be found...and to have the guts to admit that some things within their culture are fundamentally wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 02:05 AM

You, and anyone following this, will know that this community has a strong, well defined and distinctive culture.
That you have to deny this undermines your case at once.

Of course criminality is an exception to the rule, but it is remarkable that there are so many exceptions to this particular rule.
So it has been remarked on.

I suspect, based on the testimony of knowledgeable people, that there is a cultural explanation.
You seem certain that there is not, but can not say why in any readable way (less than half a page).

You are also unable to give alternative explanations in any readable way.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:55 PM

"If it did give rise to just a slight predisposition, then only a tiny minority would succumb.
And that is exactly what is found."

This doesn't help your case.

It suggests that if a small minority of a community commit a crime, that therefore that whole community has a slight predisposition to commit that crime.

In fact, the fact that it is such a tiny minority shows that they are the exception to a wholly different rule.

And there is still nothing to suggest that that tiny minority were influenced by "their culture"" as opposed to other manifold possible influences.

And that is all assuming that British Pakistani culture can be identified and defined that easily.

Supporting your argument is like trying to carry water in a seive.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:33 PM

Don, you cut the next line from my post you just quoted.
It was,
"If it did give rise to just a slight predisposition, then only a tiny minority would succumb.
And that is exactly what is found."

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:05 PM

Don and Dave, I have always acknowledged that only a tiny minority of the community are involved, but they are massively over represented in this crime, out of all proportion to the size of the community.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:59 PM

Lox, this from The Telegraph.
She says "gangs" plural.

Hilary Willmer, from the Coalition for the Removal of Pimping (Crop), said while she welcomes the new initiative, tackling internal trafficking would be hampered by a law that dictates girls over 13 should give evidence against their handlers in court - something they are rarely willing to do.

"It can happen to any child from any family," she said. "The men, the gangs have all the experience. The children, the families and the parents are bewildered, don't know what's happening.

"In practice, unless the primary victim is prepared to give evidence then it's very difficult to make charges stick. The men know this, so they often wait until the girls are 13 before actually having sex with them."

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:35 PM

""Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford - PM
Date: 02 Feb 11 - 05:19 AM

" "their culture inspires a slight predisposition to the grooming and abuse of underage girls"

Can you confirm that that is your opinion of British Pakistanis?"

It is my opinion that it is a reasonable suggestion.
The over representation is a fact that requires an explanation.
Something is predisposing them, and it is more likely to be something sexual in the culture than your alternative list. (wild generalisations?)""

Posted without comment.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:13 PM

Keith has repeatedly stated that street grooming of underage girls is a predominantly British Pakistani and/or predominantly Muslim

Can we either hear that from the horses mouth, Keith? Or can you substantiate that with examples, Don? Even if is proven, may I point out that that is not what I said. Maybe I am not listening but I am thinking of sooty kettles and cooking implements for some reason...

What I actualy said was that Keith has never said that all Pakistanis are involved in this heinous crime. Want me to repeat it? Ok then...

I have not heard Keith say that all Pakistanis (of whetever nationality) are child molesters.

Now, rather than engaging in recriminations of who is and who is not listening can we get some actual facts?

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:02 PM

Don.
"He (meaning me)has also repeatedly stated that there are only those seventeen cases, and there have been no instances of White men committing the same offences."

No Don. Just those 17 cases that have resulted in convictions, in that area.
Those 17 cases appear to be the tip of an iceberg.

Hilary Willmer set up a charity to help victims.
Google her Don.
She has worked with 400 families of victims, as I reported.

According to The Guardian, she said "The vast majority are white families and the perpetrators are Pakistani Asians. We think this is the tip of the iceberg."

Google that too Don, and please do not blame the messenger.
You would have found the same if you looked into it with an open mind.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 03:51 PM

"The vast majority are white families and the perpetrators are Pakistani Asians. We think this is the tip of the iceberg."

Yes - this gang is Pakistani.

And they are "much like international people trafficking gangs"

So the Pakistani/Moslem gangs do not behave in a unique or different way to the non pakistani/non-moslem trafficking gangs.

So it cannot be argued that Islamic or briotish Pakistani culture is the driving motivation.

It must be a different motivation that they share with other trafficking gangs.


If it was British Pakistani/Moslem culture that was to blame, then their crimes would be somehow distinctively British Pakistani/Moslem by nature.


They aren't.


So your witness has shown your hypothesis to be wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: The Sandman
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:46 PM

There's a man going round taking names

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:44 PM

"""The girl (who's typically aged between 13 and 16, but can be only 11 or 12) may meet the man alone, or be introduced by a friend who already knows him. He is usually quite a lot older and good looking, well-dressed and may well have a fast car. He'll meet her regularly, shower her with gifts, give her drink and maybe also drugs, take her for rides, tell her how special she is. He may have sex with her, but not at first, and he will discourage her from telling her parents about him because "they wouldn't understand".

"At some point further down the line he will take her to a flat or down an alley and tell her that in return for all the things he has done for her, it's payback time and she has to do something for him. She will then probably be gang raped. She will be confused, weak, think she's in love with the pimp, but also feel ashamed and guilty. She goes home and takes it out on her family and also drops out of education."""

The original one size fits all tale.

I first heard the identical tale about black Caribbean men back in the fifties, and I'll bet our US members have heard it about Hispanic men in the States.

It's the kind of generic mishmash of half truths and downright exaggerations that is spouted against the outsider of your choice in just about every society with a sizeable immigrant population.

A couple of dozen cases become a couple of hundred and then a couple of thousand.

The truth usually is that there are many different perpetrators, but the ones held responsible depend largely on the current prejudice-of-the-day.

Don T.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:28 PM

""I have not heard Keith say that all Pakistanis (of whetever nationality) are child molesters. I have not heard Lox say that all British people pedle porn and sexualise young girls. All either have said is that certain members of those societies are guilty of some crimes.""

Then you've not been listening DeG.

Keith has repeatedly stated that street grooming of underage girls is a predominantly British Pakistani and/or predominantly Muslim (he seems to believe that those terms are synonymous) crime.

He has also repeatedly stated that there are only those seventeen cases, and there have been no instances of White men committing the same offences.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:21 AM

Hilary said,
"The vast majority are white families and the perpetrators are Pakistani Asians. We think this is the tip of the iceberg."
Quoted in Guardian.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:17 AM

From Keiths expert witness.

"but later discovered widespread pimping networks, much like international people trafficking gangs"

Much like international trafficking gangs eh?

So not unique in any way?

hmmm ...

So probably not a British Pakistani cultural trait then?

Probably a trait shared by trafficking and forced prostitution gangs from other countries and cultures?


Well thank you keith, your expert witness, with whom I strongly agree on that point, has cast more doubt on your hypothesis.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 05:16 AM

Thanks Mike.
I try to be.
I just said Helen when I meant Hilary.
Is anyone going to give reaasons to discount Hilary's testimony?
Any flaws?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:51 AM

Keith seems perfectly calm and rational to me, Al. Unlike some on this thread...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Alan Whittlw
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 04:34 AM

He's got a little list.....!

Calm down Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 03:28 AM

I am adding Helen to my list of expert witnesses.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:39 AM

Helen B again, quoted by Yorkshire Post.
"At the beginning we worked on the assumption that girls were groomed by individual pimps, but later discovered widespread pimping networks, much like international people trafficking gangs. Shopping malls, games arcades, places around takeaways and parks are common meeting places.

"The girl (who's typically aged between 13 and 16, but can be only 11 or 12) may meet the man alone, or be introduced by a friend who already knows him. He is usually quite a lot older and good looking, well-dressed and may well have a fast car. He'll meet her regularly, shower her with gifts, give her drink and maybe also drugs, take her for rides, tell her how special she is. He may have sex with her, but not at first, and he will discourage her from telling her parents about him because "they wouldn't understand".

"At some point further down the line he will take her to a flat or down an alley and tell her that in return for all the things he has done for her, it's payback time and she has to do something for him. She will then probably be gang raped. She will be confused, weak, think she's in love with the pimp, but also feel ashamed and guilty. She goes home and takes it out on her family and also drops out of education."

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 02:34 AM

Don, you are certainly right to say that there must be more than these 17 cases.
That is just the actual convictions, in this limited area.

This good lady has worked with 400 families (FOUR HUNDRED!) of young girl victims since 2002, and she believed even that is just the tip of an iceberg.

This from the Guardian.
Hilary Willmer, of the Coalition for the Removal of Pimping, said that since 2002 her group had supported 400 families where girls were the victims of grooming and sex abuse by mainly Pakistani men. "The vast majority are white families and the perpetrators are Pakistani Asians. We think this is the tip of the iceberg." But she cautioned against treating the matter as a race crime. "It's a criminal thing."

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 11:10 PM

Lochlan ~~ thank you for having at last come out as to the origin of your Cat-name. I did genuinely believe you had adopted it becoz you like smoked salmon; hence the misunderstanding and its misuse: which, however, I can't feel altogether worth the alarmingly [as to your preoccupations and obsessions] abusive & mannerless obloquy thus occasioned...

Words are there to be used. Such vocabulary as I may employ is all present within my normal compass: the image of my sitting there with Roget or Chambers looking to challenge the comprehension of those less semantically well-endowed is a most entertaining one.

Steve ~ if I could make heads or tails of Don's statistics I might be convinced by them.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:53 PM

my stance is against the excesses of the Muslim religion....the fact that the criminals happen to be Pakistani is immaterial....the salient factor being the effect Islam has on their culture.

Let me assure you, old chap, that Islamic culture/religion/community simply don't come into it when you're in the process of shagging an underage girl. It's lusty ol' testosterone, mate, that wonderful substance that cuts across all barriers. That and rotten education. Education provided, supposedly, by the state.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:19 PM

No worries,

Sorry back.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:10 PM

Moving right along . . .

I can`t think of any society anywhere in which there are no forms of intolerance based on gender or religion or colour or economic condition, etc. Muslims are no better in that regard than any other religious group. Once the maniacs take over, the average Muslim who might wish to live in peace, raise a family, educate kids, etc., would likely agree. I was very happy when the new Mayor of Calgary was elected by the people of Calgary. He is Muslim--how practicing a Muslim I do not know. So, indeed there are places where your religion matters much less than your skills and abilities.

Pakistanis (I don`t use the term `Paki`) may be less tolerant, but I doubt it. Lox has raised some seriously important issues along with most other posters on this thread. Extremes of any sort--especially religious--are scary. Look to fundamental Christians (they sure as hell`s on fire ain`t good Christian) or fundamental Muslims (they sure as hell ain`t good Muslims) and go figure.

Sorry to have got carried away, Lox.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 06:00 PM

Yeah. No shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:59 PM

No shit!

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:57 PM

It`s code for Bruce.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:55 PM

Lox is short for my name, Lochlan, and is how my friends refer to me.

Is 999 short for your name?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Lox
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:53 PM

This Debate was finished off long ago.

Thre is no testimony here that would be admissable in any academic paper, or in any court of law, to support the hypothesis that Moslem Culture is any more likely to influence young AND OLD men to become involved in organized sex crime than any other cultural influence.

All we have is a foregone conclusion masquerading as a hypothesis that is being defenced tooth and nail by its adherents, all plodding on with their blinkers on like a bunch of shirehorses.

And any suggestion that they might be wrong is taken as Bashing the West.

The reason for my post above is to show just one of many other significant influences on British Pakistanis that exist in addition to Islam.

One of these is the culture of the country where they live (Britain).

Much of Britain sexualizes its kids at a very early age.

If you don't believe me just type "sexualization of children in Britain" into google and see how many results come up.



Meanwhile MtheGM goes on like a Father Jack about "incontrovertible facts".

Ask him to produce any though, and the best you'll get is a list of the latest words he's looked up in the dictionary, not all of which he fully understands, but which after a few days of jiggling he can sometimes make look coherent.

It doesn't disguise the vacuity of his posts however, as he is completely ignorant of the facts, let alone what they signify, or for that matter what the discussion is actually about.

He is to be pitied ... if only I cared ...


Ake meanwhile sits like an easter Island head, silent for post after post, before repeating exactly what he said in his last post. He is a rock of ages in every way - hard, unmoving, and impenetrable - and as interesting to discuss anything intelligent with.

If you want to develop, improve on or widen your understanding, he is definitely not the man to talk to.

Not to mention Private eye 999, with his cape fluttering in the wind and his underpants on the outside, shouting like a neglected kid til someone pays attention.


You remind me of a guy I knew once who got angry after reading the first chapter of "Brave new World" because he reckoned it was a "paedo book".

I tried to explain to him that you need to read the whole thing before you know what its about, but he was steadfast.

Sad for him because he missed out on a great read.

I think some people are genuinely afraid to challenge their preconceptions and think the sky will fall down if they discover they are wrong.

So they push the same grindstone round and round and spend their lives justifying it.

Go condemn yourselves then.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:46 PM

.... er ... 999 ... (wink ;-) ) (nice disguise)


Lox is a nice disguise too, don`t ya think.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 05:01 PM

So, is a Muslim morris team on the cards in the near future - we ask with baited breath....?

Can they be trusted with all those sticks about - not to engage in merciless floggings? Or perhaps they could do a flogging workshop at Sidmouth? After all we don't want to be little Englanders, there is always room for a healthy interchange of cultural values. I'm sure a fter a few slip jigs and knocking out a corn dolly or two, the beard and sandals gang would enjoy a more diverse approach to the folk arts.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 03:44 PM

Steve... you have certainly misinterpreted my post.

To be against a group of people(Pakies yeah?, because of their skin colour or place of origin is of course crass idiocy. why do you accuse me of this, when my stance is against the excesses of the Muslim religion....the fact that the criminals happen to be Pakistani is immaterial....the salient factor being the effect Islam has on their culture.

To say that all religions are equally abusive is a knowing lie...either a lie or ignorance.

A quick trawl through the internet will show very many cases of murder and mutilation performed by Muslims against Christians.

There are literally dozens of cases cited. Keith has cited only one or two.

Then there are the horrible punishments handed out to members of their own religion who are deemed to have transgressed.

The burying alive of teenage girls who have had sexual intercourse with an infidel.....and "honour" killings come immediately to mind.

These people and you "liberals" are supporting not a religion, but a cult of madness.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 01:53 PM

Dick. The fact is that wherever there are people in power, some people will abuse that power. No exclusions for catholics of whatever ancient city, moslems of whatever sect, politicians of whatever party or any other group you can mention.

Don. I have no idea whether what Keith says is true but unless someone can disprove it, factualy, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. I do know that what Lox said, be it true or not, was posted to paint 'British Culture' as something sordid against a background of moslem purity. Neither stand point is true. There is good and bad in all societies and it is tarring all people in that culture with the same brush that I dislike.

I have not heard Keith say that all Pakistanis (of whetever nationality) are child molesters. I have not heard Lox say that all British people pedle porn and sexualise young girls. All either have said is that certain members of those societies are guilty of some crimes. Surely that is taken as read? I don't understand your point. Why is saying one any worse than saying the other?

Now, I think I will go away and start a thread of how smelly, house metal freaks are predjudice aginst beer swilling, bearded folkies. Doubt if it will run as long though...

DeG

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 01:45 PM

"Why else would they steadfastly refuse even to consider the possibility that I could indeed be right? After all they believe Jack Straw without question, but then he has the same bias."

Straw, and Cryer, and Ahmed, and Alibhai- Brown, and the senior police officers, active and retired, and the local press, ...

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim prejudice
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 09 Feb 11 - 12:01 PM

There, Michael, see what I mean about statitics? Why don't you let Don's simply lead you to the conclusions then?