Carthy Family needs assistance

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 05:04 AM

From Eliza’s Page an hour ago…

”Hello all. Not much to say about such monumental sadness, but mam passed away yesterday afternoon, January 30th 2022.
Thinking of everyone who has supported and donated and just been there for us the last few weeks, the last few years, and through all of her triumphs and trials.
Our only hope is that she is with Lal and Mike and her mum and dad now, being held and welcomed and finally without pain.
More soon.
We love you Mam. Going to bring you home as soon as we can.

“Just a song at Twilight, when the lights are low
And the drifting shadows softly come and go
Though your heart be weary, sad the day and long
Still to me at twilight comes love’s sweet song
Comes love’s old sweet song”

The link to offer support to Dad is still www.ko-Fi.com/elizacarthy “

RIP wonderful lady.

---

I think it's appropriate to close this thread. RIP. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 31 Jan 22 - 02:13 AM

Best wishes to Norma, Martin and Eliza.

And the wider Waterson family too.

The Watersons have shone in our world like a beacon.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 30 Jan 22 - 08:21 PM

Very worrying.
Sending warmth, light and love.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 30 Jan 22 - 06:17 AM

Poor Norma, she is in our thoughts.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jan 22 - 06:09 AM

Norma is ‘extremely poorly’, and back in hospital. From Eliza’s FB page last night…

”Hi,
   Mam has taken a turn. She phoned us this morning sounding full of the joys of Spring, but later in the afternoon she became very feverish and confused, had a seizure and is unconscious.
She has had a CT scan and her brain is fine, they were worried it was bleeding because of the fall she had five days ago. It's also not a chest infection so they are stumped as to what it is.
Dad has been allowed to go to her, he's going to hold her hand all night. He says she's aware that he is there as she occasionally squeezes his hand, but I do need to let you know that she is extremely poorly and the doctor say that the next 48 hours will be crucial.
She's on very hefty antibiotics and antiviral medicine, and he says it's all in hand.
But please, keep her in your thoughts tonight. I have to stay here with the children but hopefully I will be able to see her tomorrow.
Love from us.
Xxxxe”

Every good thought for the Carthy family.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 22 - 08:55 AM

Morrisons' music is generally execrable, but on one gloomy evening during the first lockdown, when the shop was almost deserted, ABBA's "Dancing Queen" came over the tannoy, and the diminutive lady supervisor and I had a little bop in the aisles by the checkouts. So not all bad then!

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 22 - 08:21 AM

You can also mention shopping at Morrisons but not compliment the supermarket on its music - that gets redacted.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Jan 22 - 06:40 AM

Well we have obits, tech and all sorts of other stuff above the line. They are a family of musicians whose music is appropriate to this website. I wouldn't be so sure if it were Mick Jagger asking. The family didn't ask. 'Twas someone else who gave us the link. As has been rightly said, no-one has to give or even read this thread. I do think there are things we can discuss about it, the large amount raised and the length of time the appeal has been running for, for example, both of which can have us scratching our heads if we're that bothered, and the fact that millions of people on their uppers can't make similar appeals. None of that means that the appeal isn't justified. I think that the thread is appropriate, but at the same time we should be able to talk about it without being accused of negativity.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 28 Jan 22 - 06:43 AM

I'm not seeing negativity either. We are invited to contribute money to a family that many would be surprised to hear is in financial difficulty. Fair enough. Details are sparse, though no-one should have to air all their affairs in public. We all get that. The fund is still open and, at a fiver a pot, has netted £67000. That would be more than enough to sort out several families in financial difficulty. Many of those families haven't got access to a public platform to ask for donations. These are plain facts, not negativity.

I'm off to Morrisons soon. I haven't suffered from financial privation during this pandemic (due to nothing more than good fortune) and I'm going to put a stash of stuff in the food bank basket.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 22 - 03:19 AM

I don't perceive much negativity. It is dreadful that anyone should find themselves in this situation.

I certainly don't begrudge Norma Waterson or Martin Carthy a comfortable life.

I know Joe has decreed that this is a give/don't give thread, not a debate, but I'd like to make a request:

To those that can afford to give money to this cause, could you also a buy a "cup of coffee" from a campaigning organisation of your choice so that real change can happen and no one has to go begging because life has tripped them up?

Those who can't afford to give money, take a little time to petition your representative in government.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Noreen
Date: 27 Jan 22 - 07:21 PM

Paypal did release the funds quite quickly.

I too am disappointed with the negativity in this thread.

I'd be delighted to buy them all a coffee in real life but I can't, so donating to this appeal is the next best thing.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 24 Jan 22 - 04:08 PM

Wonderful news, I wish them all well.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: keberoxu
Date: 24 Jan 22 - 01:57 PM

Update from Eliza Carthy's Facebook site posts:

Testing negative, finally, for the first time.
And 'tomorrow',
Norma Waterson is to return home from hospital.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST,Is
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 04:26 PM

True, Roberta Dobbins, but the other way all the donations go directly to the family without countless middlepeople taking cuts!

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST,Roberta Dobbins
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 03:08 PM

There’s always the option of buying one or more of the Carthy CDs as a way to support them in their current distress.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 04:29 AM

I agree with Gillymor.
I have donated.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 03:31 AM

Mr Red, was that Marsh Gibbon perchance?

The very same. Guest guessed.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: leeneia
Date: 21 Jan 22 - 02:58 AM

Good for you, gillymor.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 09:18 AM

If people feel compelled to help out that's their business, it's not coming out of your pocket. Considering the contributions of the Watersons and the Carthys 60K is a pittance.

---

This is not an opportunity for debate. Give, or don't give. -Mod

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 05:33 AM

Quite... When I looked last night the appeal was still open.

Well, Matt, once again, I haven't seen anyone making a case that that there are MORE deserving causes.

One aspect of this thread is the words, apparently forgotten by many, that the good Lord said, "But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what their right hand doeth."

Just before that he told his audience to beware of trumpeting their alms-giving in front of others, as the hypocrites do in the temples in order to be praised. They have already got their reward, and the Almighty would not be best pleased with 'em!

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 05:00 AM

"Sixty grand. Not bad, eh?"

Would have been nice if some one had said, "£10,000? That's enough to see us through. Let's close the appeal so other causes can get some money"

Beginning to resent my fiver.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: matt milton
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 04:43 AM

Just pretend that the previous 2 or 3 times you bought a Martin or Eliza Carthy album, or went to a gig, it cost £1 more. Think of it that way. Like a tip.
To all those pointing out that there are more deserving cases: I'm sure Martin and Eliza would be equally glad to hear that their plight has prompted you to give £5 to Medecins San Frontieres, or a Palestinian refugee charity or whatever; because they are nice people who I'm sure know only too well that there are plenty worse off than them.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST,Oriel
Date: 19 Jan 22 - 12:50 AM

Nothing. This money is a gift and not earned income.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Malcolm Storey
Date: 18 Jan 22 - 08:37 PM

Just wonder how much the nasty tax man might want?!

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 22 - 07:22 PM

Sixty grand. Not bad, eh?

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 18 Jan 22 - 07:21 PM

This is typical PayPal. If there is uncharacteristic financial movement in an account they will think the worst. Eliza must get in touch with them ASAP and explain the financial irregularity. Money laundering rules are to blame for this hold up. Unfortunately she may have a bit of a battle to get them to believe her. Flaming nuisance.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Felipa
Date: 18 Jan 22 - 07:16 PM

I think PayPal has been freezing accounts when people get large numbers of people sending them money as "friends and family" to avoid paying fees, even if they are just sending small amounts. But that wouldn't be a problem with "Ko-fi".

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: keberoxu
Date: 18 Jan 22 - 07:11 PM

There are updates from Eliza Carthy thanks to her
Facebook and Instragram accounts.

Let's get the bad news out of the way first:
PayPal UK have FROZEN her account and she can't access the money!

In a January 16 post, Eliza described how she communicated to her mom,
still in isolation, who was 'moved' to hear of the generosity of the response to the online appeal.

"5 hours ago" is the time on the latest update:
"Mam is on antibiotics / steriods and will be out in three days.
"Dad & I testing positive so we all have to keep isolating."

And many expressions of gratitude which you may read for yourselves.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 12:14 PM

I bought them a few cups of coffee at Ko-fi,not considering it charity but an expression of gratitude for all that the Watersons and Carthys have done for the music but you'd think the bozos in charge over there would come up with at least a modest grant to help see them through the lean times.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 09:52 AM

Mr Red, was that Marsh Gibbon perchance?

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST,PB
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 05:17 AM

Donated about a week ago. Thanks to all the Carthys and Watersons for the last fifty- odd years of inspiration. It only works out about twopence a time..

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 02:56 AM

Let it be said, Martin Carthy, over the years has supported Folk clubs by making surprise appearances to get them started - like the Minchinhampton FC in Gloucs.

One Folk Festival I attended 30+ years ago and knew the organiser and the machinations. He was far too ambitious. His comment was "one artist refused the fee, after looking at the size of the audience". The organiser had known the Watersons in his days in Hull. And Carthy was on the bill. Given his well known generosity I assumed it would have been him.

Eliza was there as a 14 year-old toying with a mandolin, though not on stage.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Jan 22 - 01:55 AM

You're a very nice person Joe, and if its that religion (that so many on mudcat have been sniffy about) that helps you be so nice. Sod 'em!

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 09:34 PM

Joe, I don't know if the concert donations go 100% to Martin Carthy, or how difficult donation is. I donated through Ko-Fi. They get 100%, and it was very, very easy, though PayPal. I don't suppose that, all things being equal, it matters as long as they get the money.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 08:37 PM

I have a friend in the neighborhood who just turned 100 years old. She shares the family home with a daughter and son-in-law, and all three of them are disabled. The daughter is not afraid to ask for help, and sometimes I think she asks for too much. So my friend wants $10,000 to build a kitchen so her daughter doesn't have to go upstairs to the main kitchen - and I have to think this is a reasonable request and I'm going to give $2,500 toward this. It's always a question whether a request is legitimate, but I tend to err on the side of generosity.
I had hoped to support the Waterson-McCarthy family through donations at the January 22 Martin Carthy concert, but this thread took off and now I'm not sure what to do.
I'm looking for the best way to get my donation to the Waterson-Carthy family and make it clear that this is in gratitude for all that this family has done for folk music all over the world.
Thank you, Martin and Norma and Eliza and everyone.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 08:23 AM

its okay I contributed my pittance on Liza's website.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST,Cj
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 06:53 AM

re prs i would have thought martin gets prs for his trad arr recordings, of which there are of course many. but he's hardly ever on the mainstream radio, so i guess it won't add up to much.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 06:19 AM

my specialist subject....

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 06:17 AM

Bonzo , i am not sure what you are referring to
I have Martins phone numbers and postal adress , he is a friend of mine, but i do not put it up here, if you pm me i will give it to you, Al.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 06:01 AM

Rubbish

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 05:59 AM

Well its none of my business. But I suppose he does get performance rights by the phonographic lot. That should be enough to keep his budgie in comfort, if not luxury.

My point was that both bob Dylan and Paul Simon, morally at least, owe him a shitload of money.

I think we can assume that this a genuine plea for help from people we all respect. However the people I've met on mudcat fall into two main categories those completely skint, and those completely mingy.

However in Dylan and Simon we have two great artists famous for being generous citizens of the world.

Doesn't anyone know how to contact them? I get the impression from some mudcatters, they are always in and out of each others abodes for a cup of sugar.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Jan 22 - 04:15 AM

Following on from Big Al's point, Martin isn't a songwriter so I suppose won't be getting anything from PRS.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Jan 22 - 10:11 PM

I suppose really that's why the Paul Simon/Scarborough Fair business is so important. Paul did use almost note for note that exquisite accompaniment written by Martin and if he'd paid what they were worth - presumably the Carthy family would be living in opulence.

Its a very public piece of wrongdoing. Possibly not intentional by two young men who weren't thinking of 60 years hence.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 22 - 09:01 PM

Copied from the Ko-Fi page: "Right now the Carthy family, as many others, is struggling to survive the pandemic. Martin and Norma are 80 and 82, Norma being unable to perform for years due to illness. She is currently in hospital with pneumonia. Eliza and her two young children moved back home to help care for her 11 years ago; for the last 2 the family's income has dried up. There have been almost no concerts, club dates or festivals: everything has been moved. They urgently need funds to tide them over until the pandemic lifts and Martin and Eliza can return to touring and again become self sufficient. During the pandemic Eliza recorded a new album. Once touring resumes there will be that extra income stream plus the small income derived from the limited releases of the Waterson Family Archive. Until then the family is hard-pressed, and any donations you can make will be greatly appreciated."

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 22 - 08:38 PM

Keep in mind that the page says "[coffee' cup]x 9978"
If you investigate, 1 coffee = £5
(Actually, Phil said it first.)

Everyone in that family earns money by gigging, and they can't gig. But the amount raised so far is a good reflection on how many people's lives they have touched.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Jan 22 - 08:32 PM

£49,890 currently.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST,Liz Milner
Date: 15 Jan 22 - 08:31 PM

The Carthy/Waterson Family have brought so much joy and fine music into my life that I feel privileged to contribute to this fundraiser. It's a shame that the U.K. and U.N. don't do more to conserve human artistic treasures.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jan 22 - 08:18 PM

Clarity is required!

There's very little unkindness in this thread. There's a fair bit of umming and ahhing but there's also a lot of support. My view is that I haven't got the right to ask intrusive questions about the precise circumstances of the family. On the other hand, very little has been voluntarily divulged. It's fine for them to ask. It's fine for us to give (or not). It's also fine for us to discuss and to consider the wider national context. There's not a hint of unkindness in any of that. This very evening I've been reassuring some friends that I know that hardship is around the corner for them as a result of the energy price hike and that I'm here for them if needed. Times a million, eh? That's the wider context for me.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 15 Jan 22 - 07:32 PM

Just counting legs and dividing by two here:
2329 supporters bought
9936 cups@
£5ea. =
£49.680

RE all the rest: Copypasta & search “Kevin Kelly” + “1000 true fans”

It's actually pretty bogus fiscal business planning for a working artist but for one-ended charity cases like this, cyberspace is really hard to beat.

Subject: RE: Carthy Family needs assistance
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 15 Jan 22 - 07:27 PM

I'm glad to help, and a little shocked at the unkindness in this thread. It doesn't take much to give a little back to some musicians who have given so much to others, and who have helped shape the music that we love. We owe a debt to people like Martin Carthy, and I'm glad for the opportunity to pay of it. Yes, others are in need too, and we give in our own ways when and how we can.

If you don't like the idea of a gift, consider go watching one of their online concerts, or some YouTube videos. Enjoy the music - and then pay for it. It's the least we can do.

Dan