Low D pennywhistle?

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 06:31 PM

G'day Peter T,

I reckon Alison's advice is the best wat to see what there is in the whistle line. Dale Wisely's Chiff and Fipple site covers the lot.

There is really no "Standard" mouthpiece on whistles. Small factory whistles mostly have moulded plastic these days but Clarke's 1843 originals (still made) were tinplate rolled into a taper and plugged with a wooden fipple. Larger whistles, particularly since Bernard Overton made some for the Furies (early 1970s?), often have constructed mouthpieces from the tube material to minimise the size of the mouthpiece. For my curved windway models, I use a thin outer tube, once again to keep the head small enough for ordinary human mouths.

Christiaan Dolislager, who sells his own style of aluminium Dolang whistles locally in Sydney (partly based on a variety of whistles in my possession) uses a common head size for his G and D whistles, sweating the smaller head into the larger tube. His heads are swaged, in a similar way to Overton's - this involves pressing or rolling to shape around a form and is a good production technique if you have access to custom dies, presses and rollers.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: alison
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 11:04 AM

check out the chiff and fipple site.. you'll see all the mouthpieces.. and heaps of info and reviews on all sorts of whistles

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 10:45 AM

Thanks again -- sorry to be dopy, but to reiterate Homeless' question -- what is the mouthpiece like on a standard (not Bob Bolton's excellent adventure type -- what does "swaged" mean, by the way?)?

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: alison
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 04:01 AM

Yep... lovely instruments.. great tone.. but unfortunately not designed for me..... depending on the model my fingers can fall right into the holes (the ones I can reach).. even using piping fingering....

my advice.. go to a shop that sells them.. or if you are buying sight unseen.. make sure they have a refund policy....

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Jul 00 - 01:45 AM

I have a Shaw Low D which is a conical bore, and a Chieftan tunable Low D. Two entirely different creatures, both with a lovely sound. I believe the Shaw has a much more haunting tone to it, but it is also very hard to finger, even with my big paws. It also requires a great deal of air, but it is very dependable through the octaves. If THE FAIR ONE (she whom I pursue relentlessly over the cyber hills and dales) were not such a wee lass, she would love playing this thing. A wonderful sound.

The Chieftain is tunable, and it has a bigger sound, but not nearly as haunting. It requires much less air to play, and the stretch isn't as bad, but the holes are large. Even using the pipe fingering that my friend Barbara talks of, one must pay strict attention to the covering of the holes.

The Shaw cost me $78.00 US. The Chieftain cost me $127.00 US. Both are available through Elderly. They stock them. I have also played the Susato Low D, which is available for around $45.00 US from Elderly. It plays surprisingly well, and unlike many Susato D's, it is completely reliable through the octaves.

All the best,

Big Mick

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 11:59 PM

G'day all,

Homeless,

There are a lot of ways to make a whistle - particularly a dig one like a low D. My first large whistle (a low G)I made in an old smithy in Tasmania, in 1965, from copper water pipe, when I also made a standard C and high F and G from smaller copper pipe (something like 1/2", 3/8" and 1/4" i.d., respectively).

I sawed a narrow slit to form the lip and hammered the lip side down over a pre-shaped mandrel, then filed it smooth and lightly undercut the edge. I also hammered down the top of the windway and trimmed a bit of local hardwood (eucalyptus) to fit into the pipe as a fipple I positioned the holes by looking at (or scaling up from) existing whistles and drilling each of the holes undersize and reaming out as I checked pitch.

Since I got back to making large whistles last year I have used either PVC plumbing pipe (1" or 25mm for a low 'D') or thin-walled aluminium tubing (25mm id x 1.4mm wall thickness). I have made fully swaged heads (a la Overton), simpler formed heads ... more like my 1965 efforts and curved windway styles, where the wall section IS the lip position and the windway is a slit cut down the wall and defined as the space between the cylindrical fipple (plug)and a slightly larger tube slipped over the body tube. Currently this is a PVC tube but I am looking at alternatives.

One of the reasons I made more whistles was to explore alternative spacings to the wide spacing of the Overtons (I own 5 Overtons - a small D, a small C, a low G, a low F and a low D). So far, I tend to think that narower spaces work ... and are necessary for people with smaller hands (Alison, indeed, wants one!) BUT the wide spacing produces the strongest and clearest sound.

Fortunately, I can fairly happily play with the piper's fingering style, but I suspect it would not allow the rapid 'rolls' of Irish technique used o trebles. Perhaps this is a good thing and the low whistles are best in a more harmonic role - or handling those low, soulful tunes that are just squeky on the small whistle.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 10:48 PM

If you want to try your hand at building one of these monsters check out this web site:

http://www.ehhs.cmich.edu/~dhavlena/low-d.htm

Good luck.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Homeless
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 07:49 PM

I went thru the site mentioned above, and maybe missed something, but I don't see an answer to the question of what to use for a mouthpiece (when making a whistle yourself). Do you punch a hole in the metal, press a fipple down, and plug the end? Or fashion a mouthpiece out of wood or plastic and put that on the tube? Or is there some other method of getting a mouthpiece on?

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Snuffy
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 07:28 PM

Our Morris side has a three-hole Low D, but it's just too big for my short fingers. I can just about cover the holes on the low G, but the D is beyond me.

And as I'm the only whistler in the side, it never gets played. Great pity.

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: pastorpest
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 07:13 PM

I have two low D whistles. Although uncommon they are available at some ordinary music stores and stores that sell celtic stuff. I like my Sussato low D available from the manufacturer on the net and from many other stores as well.

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 06:03 PM

Thanks, Sean -- I have also now checked out the site Jeri posted above. All very enlightening.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: SeanM
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 05:51 PM

Peter;

I know I'm not InOBU, but I'll field the dimensions... The whistles I've seen have all been similar in dimensions, around 18 to 24 inches long, and about 1 1/2" thick. They've all been fairly sturdy, and as the posts above bear out, they can be made out of just about anything that fits the dimensions.

M

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 05:35 PM

Cool website, Jeri. I saw a low D whistle for sale at Old Songs and didn't buy it. Bummer.

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 05:34 PM

Thanks Mudcatters all.

Sorry Inobu I can't come to New York -- but you are obviously an expert. I sort of imagine them about the length and breadth of a tenor recorder -- are they thin (like long pennywhistles) or big thick things like the pipe at the back of a toilet? What do you use for a mouthpiece?
(inquiring minds want to know) yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: InOBU
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 05:27 PM

Hi Peter:
I make low D whistles. I used to have Pavee (Traveller) friends in Ireland who used to make them out of any old right sized pipe, so one day, when about to throw out an old mop handle, I said, Hmmm low D whistle, and the rest is spliters of tin and history. I now make them out of copper pipe with plastic plugs rather than wood, and so I expect they will last for a few thousand years, and can be used for plumbing if a pipe breaks. They also keep you safe late at night on the subway. Recently Paddy Keenan said, in concert, that he used to make them out of TV roof antenas. He said he'd get less than a quid for em and they are now selling for over a hundred pounds. He says he should have forgoten the pipes and stuck to making low d whistles.
Get out the hack saws guys but stay off the nieghbor's roofs!
Larry
PS come hear Sorcha DOrcha July 7 and 31 at the New Age Cabaret at 23 Saint Marks Place NYC - and I will pull out the owld low D

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 03:46 PM

Peter, finger this, or if you really think the journey is more fun than getting there, click here to begin. (Don't bypass the haiku!)

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: SeanM
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 03:34 PM

I've had a few opportunities to play with a Low D, and they're wonderful if you can.

Note that this is a BIG whistle. Most of the ones I've seen are around 2-3 foot long. My personal favorite is the Clarke Low D - it's stainless steel or aluminum (think it's steel), and probably weighs in at around 5-10 lbs... I keep telling my band that if we ever get involved in a bar fight, I can lead the way swinging with the whistle.

They do take some getting used to. Spacing's about twice that of a normal whistle, and transferring between the regular D and low D takes me a few minutes to get used to.

Good luck with it, though. It's a beautiful sound, and blends VERY well with other winds, esp. flute...

M

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Barbara
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 03:26 PM

I have one, I forget the brand. It's either an Overton or a Clarion, and the other brand is unplayable in my experience. Take em for a test drive before you buy, there's a big difference, and some people's hands just don't span the length (Alison, for example, has this problem, I think).
Fingering... now that I've sort of learned to play mine, someone showed me recently that using bagpipe position on the whistle (pads of second and third joints, not fingertips, so that your hand is flat, rather than curled around the tube) makes it possible to play the istrument fast -- something I can't do. The fingering is otherwise the same as pennywhistle, but I use my pinkie rather than ring finger for the bottom hole. Can't reach otherwise.
They are also considerably spendier than the basic set ($70 US and up).
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Low D pennywhistle?
From: Bert
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 02:47 PM

Lark in the Morning Sells them. I also recall a website that tells you how to make one. I'll see if I can find it .

Bert.

Subject: Low D pennywhistle?
From: GUEST,Peter T.
Date: 03 Jul 00 - 02:41 PM

Having recently heard an Irish bouzouki, I am intrigued by slighty odd versions of familiar instruments. Does anyone here play what I guess is called Low or Bass D pennywhistle? (Someone told me that it figures largely in Riverdance, so has come into some popularity....) Is it fingered the same as a standard pw? Do ordinary stores stock them (I have never seen one, so I guess they don't). Or any other facts -- are they a new instrument, or an old one? Easy to play, hard?

yours, Peter T.