BS: In every thread someone has to be last!

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: 42
Date: 13 May 04 - 07:00 AM

you snooze you looze
j

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 04 - 09:07 AM

Unless it's a rest you really need.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 13 May 04 - 01:03 PM

No one would dare be the last on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 May 04 - 01:54 PM

I thought The Vicar of Bray was a weathercock!!
JGM

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: ranger1
Date: 13 May 04 - 08:07 PM

In honor of the two bald eagles that visited my little corner of the world:

The Eagle

He clasps the crag with crooked hands;
Close to the sun in lonely lands,
Ringed with the azure world, he stands.

The wrinkled sea beneath him crawls;
He watches from his mountain walls,
And like a thunderbolt he falls.

--Alfred, Lord Tennyson

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 14 May 04 - 03:31 AM

No snub intended, beardedbruce...xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: 42
Date: 14 May 04 - 07:07 AM

did you know that bald eagle nests can be up to 2.5metres in diameter and over 3 metres deep?

try crawling out of that if you're a fledgling!

j

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 14 May 04 - 07:23 AM

still trying to be someone.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 May 04 - 12:02 PM

Ellenpoly:

Good to hear that... But this post might put you sleep.

It seems that my attempts to kill this thread off with (bad) verse are not as successful as I would like- Thus, I must escalate.


Sonnet Redouble, to Katie Elizabeth


My Lady Muse, how can I reach your heart
And hold to source of dream? You are the cause
Of my desires, a vision that gives start
To words of my emotion. Shall I pause
From caring, when I hear only the wind?
Can dream replace the touch of lips, or line
Hold you as arms desire? Can heart rescind
All feelings, or chance of your love decline?
You are the center of my dreams, the core
That defines structure of desire: You lend
The form, to fill my fantasy, and more,
You offer focus, to emotions bend.
How can I find this hope, that dreams require,
To tell of my concerns, and my desire?

To tell of my concerns, and my desire,
Seems beyond power that mere words contain.
You are one who more than just dreams inspire:
Can my heart's hope more than soft smile obtain?
All vision fades, with distance: Can I see
Beyond my own desires? You are the light
To show image of what dreams hope to be;
The source of brightness that to hope is sight.
Will muse be all I seek, when I reach out
To touch your fire? Can lips not seek to kiss
Your palm, forehead, and neck, and try to scout
Where I might offer pleasure, and earn bliss?
Desire feeds dreams, and passion forms my art:
Can longing be enough to future start?

Can longing be enough to future start
When I have sought for muse too many years?
Having found you, how could I think to part
From vision that guards me from past's cold tears?
Can I hold back from love, when your smiles send
Desire to warm my heart? Shall I not care
If I might please you, or let words pretend
I do not suffer when you sadness share?
Can I be more than poet, to hold muse
Within both arms and thought? Shall verse remain
My goal, or should I deeper passions choose,
When night allows desire to hopes explain?
Though you give light to dream, and verse inspire,
Can dream be all to which I might aspire?

Can dream be all to which I might aspire
When vision fills each night, and day? I seek
For happiness: What god would heart require
As tithe to future that only seems bleak?
Can passion be contained, controlled, or bound
By reason and by sense? Can desire burn
Without some warmth, and will my hopes be found
To hold only to dreams mere friendships earn?
Can longing be ignored, and set aside?
Can I not breath, nor feel, nor let mind think?
Would I be able to from my heart hide
All that I hope, and dream, to darkness sink?
Though more than my desire and source of rhyme,
I have no claim upon your heart, or time.

I have no claim upon your heart, or time
To build more fantasy upon your smile.
You embody desire, but can hope mime
Reality, that dream might future style?
You remain goal, beyond heart's hope to reach
Yet too dear to be set aside, or locked
Inside, unsaid. Will dream be brought to teach
Pleasure, or will all hopes by fact be mocked?
All that I hope, I owe to thought of you.
Your smile illuminates my dreams, your eyes
Reach to my soul, and offer heart what few
Have sent: A dream, of love that fate defies.
I offer heart and mind, to pay dream's fee:
Though I may seek for soul, you remain free.

Though I may seek for soul, you remain free
To ask for what you will: I'll not deny
My muse all that I have, nor would I be
Unwilling to all of your desires try.
You guide my dreams, and steer my hopes in ways
That excite my desires: How can I mask
How much I want to hold you? Can dream raise
My hopes enough that I might desires ask?
I do not think you need my love, but know
I require what concern hope might yet send.
My dreams are fragile, formed in heart, and show
More of desires than Truth reasons defend.
Should I think that to seek for love is crime?
Can I ask for a smile, to my dreams prime?

Can I ask for a smile, to my dreams prime
With passion? Would my hopes give heart a chance,
Without some sign to show you care, to climb
From depths of dark despair to sweet romance?
I want far more than glance, but know I hold
No key, to chain you to my dreams. Yet, dream
Would wrap arms around you, to warmth enfold:
I cannot deny that in heart I scheme.
I desire chance to show how much I care,
Beyond desire: All dreams center on you.
Shall I offer my heart, or can I dare
To ask if I might your smile try to view?
I know I have no hope to from hope flee:
Can I hope that you'll listen to my plea?

Can I hope that you'll listen to my plea
To give reason for hopes, or make dreams real?
Will thought become true deed, or heart agree
It will in future only pleasures feel?
My hopes, and heart, cannot ignore your eyes,
Nor keep desires to what is within reach.
Yet, should I refuse dream that otherwise
Gives joy? Should I but bitter thoughts beseech?
All reason flees: I chase moonbeams, and seek
For vision seen only within my mind.
What can I say, that would fantasy speak,
That could alter the world, to desire find?
How can I hope deny, or passions fight:
You are my heart's desire, my muse of light.

You are my heart's desire, my muse of light,
Bringing a hope of heaven, and a touch
Of subtle passion to echoes of night.
How can my dreams of you remain as such?
I search your words, for image, and for hint
Of what might make you smile, or how to bend
Your dreams to thought of me. Eyes need no tint
To see what soul desires, to my heart mend.
I see what heart desires, but am I blind,
Looking at light too bright? I do not know
How I might filter out my dreams, or find
If hope is lust, or deeper passion's glow.
You remain muse, that heart can't set aside;
Sweet inspiration of my verse, and guide.

Sweet inspiration of my verse, and guide
To realms of dream, and of desire, you bring
Light to my darkness. Can my heart abide
Without some thought of your soft smile seeking?
Dear one, is future preordained, that all
My hopes are less than dust? I dare not hold
To such a faith: I would to heaven call
And ask for dispensation, to dreams mold.
Can vision torn from dream be true, or show
More than my fondest wish? Can my heart care
Less for itself than that you passions know?
How can I dream, when you all my dreams snare?
Without a chance to kiss, or hold you tight,
How can I know if my concern is right?

How can I know if my concern is right
When all I hold are dreams? Can heart discern
What you would have me do? Can words invite
Hope beyond dream, or give heart chance to learn?
How can I hope to offer more than wit,
When I share only words? Can care remain
Within, hidden from life, without a bit
Of dream escaping to my hopes explain?
How can I care so much for one, unseen,
Beyond all hope of passion? Can I hold
My heart from love, when all that hope can glean
From dream is that time does not make one old?
What hope have I to future dream decide,
To tell if words should hope display, or hide?

To tell if words should hope display, or hide
All feelings, heart must find a path to lead
Out of my dreams. Yet, would I turn aside
For fear heart might lose something that I need?
How can I deny dreams, or hope refuse,
When without thought of you my nights are cold?
My dreams bring joy, since I found you, my muse;
How can I let your effect be untold?
I wear heart on my sleeve: You are the maid
I hold as Lady Muse, but should I try
To be more than just friend? Hopes do not fade
With time, but can my heart to sense reply?
Heart seeks to show your colours, and dreams rule:
I do not know if I am knight, or fool.

I do not know if I am knight, or fool
To care for you, when I can't hope to reach
Beyond desire. I cannot think you cruel,
Though I might wish far more than rhyme to teach:
You are one I desire, but more, I care
That you are happy, and future enjoy.
What should I do? Can words hope to repair
Your dreams? How can I past demons destroy?
You know I seek to have you laugh, and smile,
Though I might want to hold you, and to kiss
Forehead, and palm, and lips. Might I dream, while
I remain distant? Is concern remiss?
I do not know if I should dream o'errule;
Whether to offer heart, or passions cool.

Whether to offer heart, or passions cool
Remains beyond decision. Dream is all
I have: I cannot desire for you school
Out of my dreams, nor out of longing fall.
Yet, dare I ask to fulfill dreams, or tell
How I might offer passion for your night?
I care too much to risk breaking this spell
You hold me in, that fills my dreams with light.
Reason requires that heart be held in check,
But desires control dreams, and hope. I long
To whisper in your ear, and nibble neck,
But do not know if action would be wrong.
I offer heart, and soul, and all of art:
My Lady Muse, how can I reach your heart?

My Lady Muse, how can I reach your heart
To tell of my concerns, and my desire?
Can longing be enough to future start,
Can dream be all to which I might aspire?
I have no claim upon your heart, or time;
Though I may seek for soul, you remain free.
Can I ask for a smile to my dreams prime?
Can I hope that you'll listen to my plea?
You are my heart's desire, my muse of light,
Sweet inspiration of my verse, and guide.
How can I know if my concern is right,
To tell if words should hope display, or hide?
I do not know if I am knight or fool;
Whether to offer heart, or passions cool.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 14 May 04 - 12:07 PM

Oh no, beardedbruce, I like this long poem, really I do..
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 May 04 - 12:13 PM

Not to worry- Having completed one Sonnet Redouble, it is unlikely I will write another... Way too much effort for something no-one ever reads all the way through.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 04 - 12:18 PM

Bloody Hell!!! You are a sick man, beardedbruce. That is the most interminable lot of tripe I have ever tried to read. It begins nowhere goes nowhere and ends nowhere...then returns to its starting place and does it all over again. It is a mobius strip of maudlin excess that numbs the mind and petrifies the soul. The man who wrote it should have been thrown naked into a pit of famished chihauhaus.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 May 04 - 04:31 PM

Thank you. Good criticism is so hard to find.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 May 04 - 04:42 PM

Little Hawk:
"It is a mobius strip of maudlin excess that numbs the mind and petrifies the soul."

Well, I think THIS might deserve that comment a little more...

A Dark Corona

What vision can I hold, when dreams are dark
And chill creeps into soul? How can I see
If future offers reason, or might be
Enough to some image of hope lend spark?
Yet, shall I think that past would not leave mark
Upon a weary soul? Will darkness hide
The scars of heart that to dead dreams are tied?
Can any shroud cover a wound so stark?
My soul in silence dwells: I hear no muse
To offer song, nor to receive my heart.
What passions might I hold, when heart is bound
In cold and silent tomb? Can hope refuse
To fade, when all is grim? How can dream start
When only shadows in the night are found?

When only shadows in the night are found
To fill my dreams, how can I hope to know
A reason to go on? Desire might show
Image to heart, but silence has heart bound
To dark despair: All of delight is ground
Into the dust. Yet, should I try to light
My dreams, when hope brings me such pain? How right
To think of muse, when no replies resound?
Should I care for the past? It matters more
Than I might say: My muse remains a part
Of soul. I cannot longing for muse end.
I do not dare forget her, or ignore
All that was never said: Dream offered art
Far more than I might in my verses send.

Far more than I might in my verses send,
I give concern. I worry still, but fear
Heart cannot hope to hold past muse as dear
As I desire: Regrets darken hope's end.
I wake to find no dawn; Pale stars pretend
To light cold night, but vision cannot tell
Between gray thought, and black. Will my mind dwell
On loss, or hope to future hopes defend?
I care, but cannot alter fact: My dreams
Have little value to my muse. I seek
What will not be, that desires might not fade.
It matters not: The desire I held seems
Beyond all thought. I cannot make muse speak:
No power I control can passions aid.

No power I control can passions aid.
To hold to muse: Heart seeks for voice in vain
Without bright dreams. How can I hope obtain
From silence? Yet, can my desire be made
To change, or bend? Shall I think that heart paid
Such price for transience? I cannot bear
That it is for illusion that I care:
How can I heart's desire for phantoms trade?
Ghosts fill the darkness: Memories now dead,
But free to roam my dreams. I do not fear
What was: Future alone frightens heart's night.
I cannot forget what past words I've said,
Nor regret one concern, or wish, or tear:
Why can I not find muse to bring dream light?

Why can I not find muse to bring dream light
And end this silence? Do I ask for more
Than might be wise? Did I some god ignore,
That Heaven withholds what could make heart right?
What crime condemns me, that I cared? How might
I earn reprieve, or pardon? I regret
Only those words unsaid, that I have let
All hope depart, by not holding muse tight.
All passions pass, but I do not seek grave
For my desires: I prize even the tears
The memory of smile recalls to mind.
Yet, memory alone does not dream save
From bitter night. Should I look to spend years
Waiting for end, with all my visions blind?

Waiting for end with all my visions blind,
Echoes remain, to fill the empty hours
With illusion of life. Does past hold powers
To control dreams and thought, or with hope bind
Dark night to all desires? Can I not find
Some path for future muse to alter fate?
What might my heart resolve, that hope would wait
In silence? Do echoes of muse remind?
The chill seeps in my bones: I ache, to try
To move my heart from past. Nothing remains,
But I am loathe to leave this tear-filled grave.
When shall I forsake dreams, and know hopes die?
How can heart binding burst? Let these tear stains
Be all that I recall, and all dreams save.

Be all that I recall, and all dreams save
From dark concern: I cannot ask for less,
Nor more. I can only concern confess,
That muse matters to heart. Is silence brave,
To keep me blind? Had muse one reason gave
I'd accept fate, but in silence I hear
Only the absence: Hope does not appear,
And all attempts to know have left me knave.
I wish muse only well, but wish she'd say
Some word of what transpired: Must I believe
That all past conversations were but lark?
I cannot forget past, nor future sway,
But present gives me only cause to grieve:
What vision can I hold, when dreams are dark?

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 May 04 - 04:47 PM

... as we go from bad to verse...

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: 42
Date: 14 May 04 - 04:55 PM

omigod! even my mouse went to sleep!
j

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 May 04 - 05:00 PM

42:
"even my mouse went to sleep!"

Hmm... I guess the last poem is a failure, if the mouse didn't jump off the desk and hang itself...

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: s6k
Date: 14 May 04 - 05:36 PM

ask not what your country can do for you, ask for money

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 14 May 04 - 07:07 PM

why? Will they give me any?

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: ranger1
Date: 14 May 04 - 08:45 PM

No, but someone else might.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: s6k
Date: 14 May 04 - 08:50 PM

no they wont

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: ranger1
Date: 14 May 04 - 08:55 PM

Sure, they will. As PT Barnum once said: "there's a sucker born every minute."

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Pogo
Date: 14 May 04 - 09:57 PM

Now this is the true end of the thread because it has come full circle back to its beginning...therefore any posts that follow it are irrelevant and rendered null and void! bahahaha >:OP

'Jim Dixon uttered something cosmic in another thread, regarding posts that kill threads. He said, "In every thread someone has to be last."

He's right. This is really something to ponder, so I have launched a thread to explore it in depth. Feel free to post and give your own thoughts on the matter.

WHO will be last in this thread???? Who will it be? And when will we know?

The suspense is mounting...

- LH '

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 15 May 04 - 05:59 AM

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...Huh, wha?? Did someone write something important??...ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 May 04 - 06:59 AM

Greenland's icy mountains and the island's entire ice cap could disappear in the next 1,000 years because of global warming, European scientists warn today. If the annual average increase in temperature reached 2.7C above the present rate, then melting of the icecap would begin.If that occurs sea levels will rise by seven metres, drowning low-level coastlines around the world. Greenland is covered by the biggest ice sheet in the northern hemisphere: almost 772,000 square miles of ice which is up to 1.9 miles thick, the base of which is below sea level.

The greater the warming, the faster the snow melts. The worst-case predictions for Greenland, made by an intergovernmental panel of scientists, involve an average warming of 8C (46F). There are already signs of consistent melting in Greenland. Researchers reported in 1999 that the ice sheet was thinning by about a metre a year.

The latest research confirms the picture of an increasingly mild polar world. Alaskan glaciers are in retreat. The Arctic Ocean icepack has thinned by more than 30% in the past three decades and has been shrinking by an area equivalent to the Netherlands each year during the same period. If warming continues by the end of the century the Arctic could be free of ice altogether during summer months, British scientists predict.

www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,1188079,00.html

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 May 04 - 07:06 AM

Somethings generating too much hot air!
JGM

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 May 04 - 07:40 AM

thought it was time for a complete change in here Giok - things were getting a little stuffy.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: 42
Date: 15 May 04 - 07:49 AM

change for change's sake is not always creative or productive. perhaps I will be last!!!!

j

'cause i'm younger than LH

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: s6k
Date: 15 May 04 - 08:58 AM

then again, perhaps not

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 May 04 - 10:10 AM

but not least

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 May 04 - 10:40 AM

at least i've lasted the last lost lesson.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 04 - 11:25 AM

Sonnet 05/01/03                        DCCLXXIII

I have had little time to dream, or spend
In thought of my desires. I now concern
My moments with just getting by: I bend
My hopes to thought of how to living earn.
I have had no reason to smile, or think
I might find happiness, or seek for joy.
This season I find bitter past to drink,
That one I cared for would my dreams destroy.
I have had tears for cold, cruel silence, lost
Illusions, and dead dreams, but have not found
That salt pleases my taste. Are dreams the cost
For desire to have to sweet muse been bound?
Past gives no future, and I cannot see
How dead desires might ever come to be.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 04 - 12:05 PM

freda:

So, the little ice age ( since the 12th century) is finally coming to an end. The Viking colony can be re-established in Greenland, and as for the coasts being flooded, that would clean up a number of major urban areas. Of course, it would be far better to bring all that ice down to the Sahara region, and try to restore the man-made desert ( caused by goats overgrazing). That might change the politics of the region, though.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 May 04 - 01:11 PM

Mild, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 04 - 01:19 PM

rather hot, here in the DC area...

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 04 - 03:06 PM

btw.... "average warming of 8C (46F)."

Though I may be a rocket scientist, I don't understand these numbers...

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 15 May 04 - 05:55 PM

things were getting a little stuffy.

How about things were getting a little stiffy?

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 15 May 04 - 06:14 PM

Here's a little bit of Florida history for you - having to do with dueling and revenge!

----

Some people know that Orange County, Florida was called Mosquito County originally, but few know of Leigh Read County.

The renaming of Mosquito County to Leigh Read County begins with the story of the man, Leigh Read, and the circumstances of his life.

Leigh Read was born around the year 1800, possibly in Georgia. We don't quite know when he moved to Florida, but it probably sometime in the mid 1820s. In 1835 he enlisted as an officer in the Florida Militia at the beginning of the Second Seminole Indian War (1835-1842). He was wounded at the battle of Withlacoochee on December 31, 1835.

In 1836, based on his bravery under fire and his wounds, Read was recommended to President Andrew Jackson (and former governor of territorial Florida) to become the Brigadier General of the 1st Brigade of Florida Militia. This recommendation was made by the territorial governor of Florida, Richard K. Call.

President Jackson accepted the recommendation. Brigadier General Read took command of the 1st Brigade on September 10, 1836. The Brigade was ordered into service by Governor Call to aid the cause against the Seminole Indians in Central and South Florida. Read held command until January 5, 1837.

After completing his military service, Read settled in Tallahassee and married Eliza Branch, daughter of John Branch who would become Florida's last territorial governor (1844-1845). Read became a leader of the Florida Democratic Party as well as an official of the Territorial Council of Florida.

In 1837, Read was working in Tallahassee with the convention charged with the task of passing "An Act to call a Convention for the purpose of organizing a State Government." That act was passed in 1938. The result of this work was the Constitutional Convention of 1838, which set Florida on its journey to statehood seven years later.

During Florida's territorial years its capital, Tallahassee, was a wild and generally lawless town. One of Tallahassee's mayors, the reform-oriented Francis Eppes (grandson of Thomas Jefferson), described the town's Marion Race Course "A hotbed of vice, intemperance, gambling and profanity." He held that the rest of the town was little better. And Ralph Waldo Emerson, after a visit to the capital, called Tallahassee "A grotesque place of land speculators and desperados."

One of the hottest topics of public debate in the territory at that time was the issue connected with the banks. The Panic of 1837 soured many people on banks because of their questionable investments and subsequent loss of money which meant they could (and did) close their doors. In the debates of the bank issue the Whig Party were pro-banking while the Democrats were anti-banking. Leigh Read, as a leader of Florida's Democratic Party was anti-banking, and therefore was quite literally a target for leaders of the Whig Party.

In 1839, two Whig leaders sought to attack Leigh Read by challenging Read to duel concerning arguments over bank reform. One was William Tradewell. Read declined both challenges though he was heard to say that if he had to fight anyone, it would be the Whig's "Bulldog" himself - Augustus Alston.

Augustus Alston was born in Georgia in 1805. He was part of an influential and politically oriented family. An uncle of his - Willis Alston - was a member of the North Carolina House of Commons and U.S. Representative from North Carolina. Augustus, himself was a member of Georgia State House of Representatives. Augustus had two sisters and two brothers (Gideon and Willis). The Alston family was a prosperous planter family that moved to Florida around 1830 after purchasing large amounts of farmland between the Georgia border and Tallahassee. The made their home near Miccosukee. It was known that the Alston family had a great interest in weaponry and possessed a rare collection of dueling pistols.

Soon after moving to Florida, Gideon Alston and a family friend stepped outside the Alston house to test two old pistols. Only the friend returned. He explained that he had accidentally discharged his weapon and Gideon had been killed. The family supposedly accepted the story. However a few months later the friend was reported lost in a storm at sea and was never heard from again.

Around 1835, Willis Alston moved to Texas. That same year Augustus Alston joined the Florida Militia and became a colonel. After his service, he became a leader in the Florida Whig Party.

Augustus Alston was urged by his friends to challenge Read to a duel. He did so and Read, reportedly to the surprise of many, accepted the challenge. It was said that from that day on, Read was a doomed man. He was only a casual user of firearms - mostly connected with his military service - while Alston was well known to be a well-practiced shot.

The duel took place early in the morning on December 12, 1839. As the confident Alston left his home on his way to the duel, he instructed his wife and sisters to prepare a victory banquet for his return.

The duel was pre-determined to be "to the death" and Read, being the one who accepted the challenge was allowed to chose the type of weapons the two would use. He chose Jaeger rifles. This particular rifle was considered one of the most deadly at such short range because of its large caliber, and it also had a hair trigger. Read probably chose the weapon because it was most like the guns he used in the militia and with which he was most comfortable.

The two men walked the proscribed ten paces and wheeled around to face each other. Eyewitnesses reported that somehow Alston accidentally discharged his gun before he could raise it and aim. He then clutched the rifle to his breast as Read aimed and fired. The ball shattered through Alston's rifle trigger and hit Alston squarely in the chest and fell dead.

While the duel was considered fair by the observers and most others who heard the details, Alston's sisters called it murder since Alston fired before he could aim. His sisters took the lead ball that killed their brother, had it recast and sent to their brother Willis in Texas, demanding that he avenge his brother's death. This was known publicly, so from then on, Read chose to stay armed at all times.

In 1840 Read was elected speaker of the Florida Territorial Legislature. On the evening of January 6, 1840, he was entertaining friends at the traditional Speaker's Ball at the City Hotel. A tall figure, wearing a long cloak and hat pulled down over his face entered and strode toward Read. It was Willis Alston who had returned from Texas. He pulled a Bowie knife and lunged at Read. Read was able to pull his gun and fired. He grazed Willis' hand, but did not stop him. The two struggled until partygoers pulled them apart. Neither man was badly injured. Willis Alston left the event and dropped out of sight.

Over a year later, in the spring of 1841 Willis Alston arranged to stay with a friend, Michael Ledwith, in Tallahassee. It was common knowledge that Read often walked passed Ledwith's house, so Alston waited with a double-barreled shotgun. On April 27, 1841, Read and a friend were strolling past the house. Alston came out and from behind, shot Read in the back. It seriously wounded him but he was able to turn around to face his attacker. He was not able to get his gun out before Alston came up even closer and fired the second cartridge into Read's face. Read died instantly.

Alston was arrested and jailed but later escaped, due primarily to political influence and approximately $30,000 in bribes. He fled to Brazoria, Texas.

In Brazoria, Dr. Stewart, a Brazoria resident and also a former resident of Tallahassee who knew Leigh Read and knew of the murder found out that Alston was in the same town. Stewart shared with people that he was incensed that Read's killer lived near him. Alston learned of Stewart's comments and wrote them down on paper. One day, the two met on horseback and Alston handed Stewart the paper and asked the doctor if he did make the remarks. As a reply, Stewart got off his horse, drew his gun and shot Alston in the stomach. Although seriously wounded, Alston was able to pull his shotgun and fire point-blank at Stewart. The Doctor Fell dead.

Willis Alston once again found himself in jail for murder. One night a servant, who visited him, secreted a length of rope, wrapped around his body, into the jail. The rope was supposed to be part of an escape plan. Alston never got to use it, however, for later that same night, friends of Dr. Stewart stormed the jail, overpowered the Marshall and dragged Alston outside and fired a volley of bullets into him. This killed the last of the Alston brothers.

It took many more years before the duel became truly outlawed in Florida.

The next year, 1842, both houses of the territorial legislature passed a bill changing the name of Mosquito County to Leigh Read County. The name change was never official however. The bill was never submitted to the governor and therefore never signed into law. It was probably done as a measure of respect and never intended for it to become law. By the time Florida achieved Statehood three years later, Mosquito County had regained its name and would soon receive its third and final name: Orange.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: beardedbruce
Date: 15 May 04 - 07:13 PM

KisP.... but not sure how I can utilize this...

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 May 04 - 08:42 PM

Austria claims to have invented tartan kilts

Tartan kilts have become fashionable in Austria after archaeologists claimed the country invented them. Many Austrian stores are now selling "traditional Austrian" kilts and sporrans as well as lederhosen.

The Austrian claim is based on the discovery of what they claim is the oldest piece of tartan in the world. Thomas Rettl, whose clothing company is based close to where scraps from the original Celtic kilt were found, said: "Ever since we found out that Austria was the true home to tartan we have been doing a roaring trade.

"It was found not in Scotland but in a place called Molzbichl in Carinthia in Austria. The Celts who conquered Scotland originally came from Europe, which would back our claim to have had the kilt first. The tartan sample found in Austria was dated to at least 320 years BC - over 1,600 years earlier than the oldest Scottish tartan which was made in 1,300 AD."

Mr Rettl said armed with the knowledge that the kilt was actually Austria's traditional costume, he and his fellow Austrian tailors had decided to make a kilt and since then many others had copied the trend.

"We worked with a Scottish firm in the Borders to get the necessary expertise but the kilt is an Austrian design and we use the best materials from around the world - our kilts are better quality than many in Scotland.

"The success of the Carinthian kilt in particular has surprised even me. I am hoping to sell more in Scotland as well and in recognition of our shared Celtic past with the Scots I am making a deer leather kilt - a mixture of a tartan cloth and a pair of lederhosen."

The Scottish Tartans Authority says it's not in the least bit surprising that traces of tartan were found in Austria.

Brian Wilton said the oldest tartan authenticated was found in China 500 years before the time of Tutankhanum.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: ranger1
Date: 15 May 04 - 08:46 PM

Thank you, Blackcatter. It was going to be a day that ended without a new bit of knowledge, until now. I try to avoid knowledgeless days, and you never know when some little factoid might win you lots of money on Jeopardy!

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: s6k
Date: 15 May 04 - 10:06 PM

what- EVERRRRR!

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: 42
Date: 15 May 04 - 10:33 PM

me
j

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 May 04 - 11:43 PM

I think you forgot the first part of that, 42...

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 15 May 04 - 11:44 PM

You're welcome Ranger

The life & death of Leigh Read proves you don't have to write fiction to hear a remarkable story. So many people don't know that Florida was one of the biggest frontiers that the U.S. ever "tamed." The Seminole Indian wars were the longest and most costly Indian wars the U.S. ever fought. Over 300 forts were built throughout the territory/state.

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: 42
Date: 16 May 04 - 06:59 AM

if I'd forgotten anything I would have typed "you" LH
j

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: Tam the Bam (Nutter)
Date: 16 May 04 - 08:14 AM

No they don't just don't post unlike me HAHAHA

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: s6k
Date: 16 May 04 - 09:53 AM

sorry but this has to be done...

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: s6k
Date: 16 May 04 - 09:53 AM

what has to be done?

Subject: RE: BS: In every thread someone has to be last!
From: s6k
Date: 16 May 04 - 09:53 AM

post number 600 !!! i thank you!