DT Attribution & Minor Corrections - recorded msgs

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 01:43 AM

Bells of Rhymney - tune from Pete Seeger. Lyrics by Welsh poet Idris Davies, who lived in Tonypandy in the Rhondda Valley the heart of the coalfields of South Wales. I see the lyrics are goofed up a bit. Here's a complete, corrected transcription:

BELLS OF RHYMNEY
(Idris Davies & Pete Seeger)

Oh what will you give me?
Say the sad bells of Rhymney
Is there hope for the future?
Cry the brown bells of Merthyr.
Who made the mine owner?
Say the black bells of Rhondda.
And who robbed the miner?
Cry the grim bells of Blaina.

They will plunder willy-nilly,
Cry the bells of Caerphilly.
They have fangs, they have teeth,
Say the loud bells of Neath.
Even God is uneasy,
Say the moist bells of Swansea.
And what will you give me?
Say the sad bells of Rhymney


Put the vandals in court
Say the bells of Newport.
All would be well if, if, if,
Cry the green bells of Cardiff.
Why so worried, sisters, why?
Sang the silver bells of Wye.
And what will you give me?
Say the sad bells of Rhymney.


Lyrics from "Gwalia Deserta" by Welsh poet Idris Davies, who lived in Tonypandy in the Rhondda Valley the heart of the coalfields of South Wales. The poem was written in about 1927, and published in 1938. Tune by Pete Seeger, 1959.
Copyright Ludlow Music, 1959.

Source: "Where Have All the Flowers Gone?" - a book by Pete Seeger.

@Welsh
recorded by Ian Campbell Folk Group
filename[ BELLRHYM
TUNE FILE: BELLRHYM
CLICK TO PLAY
SOF

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 04:43 AM

Joe

BTW, the Johnny McEvoy attribution is correct - I wasn't sure when I first posted the song.

Regards

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 01:13 AM

As explained in this thread, the song called GOOD FISH CHOWDER was originally a poem called JERRY MULLIGAN by John Ciardi set to the traditional tune THE WINNIPEG WHORE. It was Greg Hildebrand who first got the idea to combine them, and Joe Hickerson who first recorded it.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 11:53 PM

According to several sites such as this one, SWEET VIOLETS [2] was written by Cy Coben and Charles Grean, copyright 1951. (But that might not be the oldest version.)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 12:22 AM

SILVER BELL
Words, Edward Madden. Music, Percy Wenrich. 1910.
(Information from The Levy Collection.)
The lyrics here are more accurate.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 06:04 PM

THE JEELIE PIECE SONG (SKYSCRAPER WEAN)
Spelling should be McNaughtan, not MacNaughton.
(McNaughtan is how his name is spelled at Greentrax, his record company.)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 09:50 PM

According to Malcolm Douglas, the song in the DT called FALL DEE RAY should actually be called THE VILLAGE PIMP, as it is a parody by the Kipper Family of THE VILLAGE PUMP.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 11:20 PM

But mostly because that's what the song's writers, Dick Nudds and Chris Sugden (uncredited in the DT file), called it.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: GUEST,Cuilionn
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 12:19 AM

I posted this elsewhere, but might as well say it here.

Mary Litchfield Tuel, past member of the group "Women, Women & Song", sent the following to me via e-mail:

"Libbie (or as she prefers to be known professionally, Elizabeth W.
Anthony) wrote the Key of R and I told her at the time it was a work of comic genius and it still is and I still think so but it never hurts for other people to tell her so. It has been passed around quite a bit, and I have heard it attributed to me, but I didn't write it, Libbie did, and it would grieve us both for people to get that wrong..."

SO.... please change attribution for "Key of R" to credit Elizabeth W. Anthony.

Moran Taing/Muckle Thanks,

--Cuilionn (and yes, I will get around to re-registering one of these days!)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 01:41 AM

Mary Dear - Words by Andrew B. Sterling, music by Harry von Tilzer, 1902.
Recorded by Gene Autry & Charlie Poole

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 07:45 AM

Laura Lee in the DT, compared with Laura Lea in the sheet music at the Levy collection, has the title misspelled, the names of the lyricist and composer reversed, the chorus missing (although the chorus is only a repetition of the last 2 lines of the first verse), and a few small differences in the words. A better copy is posted here.

---

I believe the song title is usually spelled Aura Lea. The Book of World-Famous Music says "Aura Lee has words by W.W. Fosdick, Music by George R. Poulton, copyright May 1, 1861. In 1956, a new lyric entitled "Love Me Tender" was written to the melody by Elvis Presley and Vera Matson.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 10:13 PM

The name of the author of ONLY OUR RIVERS RUN FREE is actually MacConnell, not McConnell, and though Michael may be his birth name, he seems to always use the name Mickey on his albums and at his official website. (He also uses the name Chordstrangler at Mudcat. Click here.)

There are also a few errors in the lyrics. Compare with the text at the official website.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:31 PM

As pointed out by Alan Ackerman in this message, IT'S A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU was actually written by Karl Williams (not Carl) and the last line should be

"But friendship's a diamond, and trouble's the diamond mine."

Also, you might want to add the following note:

[Sung by Karl Williams on his album, "Living at the End of Time." Also sung by Sally Rogers on "When Howie Met Sally," and by Faith Petric on "Faith's Favorites."]

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 08:10 PM

Sierry Petes (click), a poor version in the DT as Tying Knots in the Devil's Tail (title by a plagiarist named Jack Lee), has not yet been credited to the author, Gail Gardner.

Someone may have posted this before, but this thread takes too long to sort, let alone find.

---

I'll agree the DT version may be inaccurate and the source may not be identified, but it IS apparently correctly attributed to Gail Gardner. Am I misunderstanding the proposed correction?

I know this page is long, but you can use [CTRL-F] to FIND a keyword on large pages. I have asked Susan to leave corrections requests here on the thread and mark them with the harvesting birdie ^^ so we don't duplicate corrections that have already been posted and noted.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 08:41 PM

G'day,

This is a correction of what looks like an accidental ommission of a name in the notes to DigiTrad's: BOLD JACK DONOHUE (2), (the version collected by Alan Scott from Mr H. Beatty of Hawthorne Qld). If you look at the second sentence, you will see that it is incomplete. I suspect the original poster was checking the name / spelling ... and then posted without any name at all. This causes confusion, as Alan Scott did not bring out the book - his friend John Meredith did. (Meredith, John, The Donahoe Ballads, Red Rooster Press, Ascot Vale, Victoria, Australia, 1982). The first sentences of the note should be as below (I have bolded the name that was missed out(:

This version collected by Alan Scott from Mr H. Beatty of Hawthorne Qld.
In his booklet The Donahoe Ballads John Meredith gives some 16 tunes that have been collected. ...

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 05:27 PM

PUT ANOTHER LOG ON THE FIRE was actually written by Shel Silverstein, though recorded by Tompall Glaser.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 08:23 AM

From The Library of Congress American Memory Collection:

I DIDN'T RAISE MY BOY TO BE A SOLDIER
(Words, Alfred Bryan. Music, Al Piantadosi. 1915)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:51 PM

ASCAP attributes ROCKING ALONE IN AN OLD ROCKING CHAIR to Bob Miller.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 04:56 PM

SWING ON A STAR should actually be called SWINGING ON A STAR. It was written by Johnny Burke and Jimmy Van Heusen in 1944.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 05:23 PM

THE ROSE OF TRALEE was written by G. F. Francis in 1850, according to sheet music at The Library of Congress American Memory Collection.

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Thread #49846   Message #1121618
Posted By: IanC
23-Feb-04 - 04:54 AM
Thread Name: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread

Jim

It's wise to be VERY VERY careful about making attributions based on sheet music. Firstly, the publishers are often only claiming copyright over the particular arrangement and second, they frequently lie about the copyright.

In the case of "The Rose of Tralee", most authorities seem to agree that the lyrics are by C. Mordaunt Spencer, published in London in 1845 and the music is by Charles W. Glover.

:-)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 03:27 AM

THE OLD APPLE TREE (IN THE ORCHARD)
(not to be confused with IN THE SHADE OF THE OLD APPLE TREE)
Words, Jack Scholl. Music, M. K. Jerome. 1938.

Written for the Humphrey Bogart movie, "Swing Your Lady" (1938), and the tune was subsequently featured as background music to several Warner Brothers cartoons.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: IanC
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 04:54 AM

Jim

It's wise to be VERY VERY careful about making attributions based on sheet music. Firstly, the publishers are often only claiming copyright over the particular arrangement and second, they frequently lie about the copyright.

In the case of "The Rose of Tralee", most authorities seem to agree that the lyrics are by C. Mordaunt Spencer, published in London in 1845 and th music is by Charles W. Glover.

:-)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:56 AM

Looks like we have it well-established that the title of the Tom Paxton song should be Goodman and Schwerner and Chaney. The DT has it as "Goodwin" in both the title and the lyrics.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 10:45 PM

According to the sheet music at The Library of Congress American Memory Collection, MISS FOGARTY'S CHRISTMAS CAKE was written by C. Frank Horn in 1883. Lyrics more faithful to the sheet music are posted here.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 07:37 PM

"Steamboat Bill." Words by Ren Shields, music by Leighton Bros. Copyright 1910, Pub. Leighton Bros., at F. A. Mills, NYC.
Sheet music at Levy Sheet music.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 10:27 AM

According to the sheet music at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music, TOO-RA-LOO-RA-LOO-RAL THAT'S AN IRISH LULLABY was written by J. R. Shannon in 1913. Other sources say that's James Royce Shannon (1881-1946).

It's usually listed as TOO-RA-LOO-RA-LOO-RAL (THAT'S AN IRISH LULLABY) but the original sheet music lacks parentheses in the title.

The lyrics in the sheet music are identical to TOO-A-LOO-RA-LOO-RAL That's An Irish Lullaby in the DT but note the misspelling of the title and of "I'd" in line 7.

---

Note also that the DT spells the song title incorrectly. It should be TOO-RA-LOO-RA-LOO-RAL
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 10:06 PM

The song that is called CAMP GRENADA in the DT should actually be called HELLO MUDDAH, HELLO FADDUH! (A LETTER FROM CAMP). It was written by Allan Sherman and Lou Busch. Some sources say "Words, Allan Sherman. Music, Lou Busch" or "... arr. Lou Busch." The music is actually an adaptation of Ponchielli's 1876 composition "Dance of the Hours."

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:36 AM

The song called DO YOU LOVE ME, MOLLY DARLIN? in the DT should actually be called MOLLIE DARLING. It was written by Will S. Hays in 1872. The sheet music is in the Levy collection. A more complete set of lyrics is posted here.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 May 04 - 02:07 AM

I think we have two copies of "LE CHANT DES OUVRIERS," filename[ CHANTOEV (8620), and filename[ OUVRIER (8619)
What is that - "chant of the egg people"??
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 May 04 - 01:43 PM

Hoarse douvries singing? Will wonders never cease!

Ouvriers- workers, laborers, mill or factory hands (or girl).

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 May 04 - 03:01 AM

Note that Titanic (7) and Titanic (9) appear to be identical.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 May 04 - 12:57 PM

DOWN BY THE RIVER was written by H. S. Thompson, according to the sheet music at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 May 04 - 04:23 PM

actually a duplicated entry in DT (you may already know about this) HEY, GOOD LOOKIN'
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2621 http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2629

(from Foolestroupe)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 May 04 - 05:16 PM

actually a duplicated entry in DT (you may already know about this) HEY, GOOD LOOKIN'
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2621 http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2629

(from Foolestroupe)

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GOSPEL SHIP http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2373

OLD GOSPEL SHIP http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=4404 identical, seem to have been entered by different people.

(from Foolestroupe)

---

2373 seems to be the better transcription

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:36 AM

PLAYMATE should actually be called PLAYMATES. It was written by Saxie Dowell in 1940. The version in DT is incomplete. We have other longer versions in this thread but I don't know if any of them are reliably "original."

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 May 04 - 12:13 AM

Regarding THE DARK ISLAND and DARK ISLAND 2:

These related songs have a complicated history that is a bit hard to sort out, but having read several threads on the subject, I believe the lyrics you have called THE DARK ISLAND were indeed written by Stewart Ross, but the lyrics in the DT contain some errors and are missing a verse. The correct version has been posted by the author's son, Alan Ross, here.

The lyrics you call DARK ISLAND 2 were written by David Silver (not "Silver Maclachlan").

Both lyrics were set to a pipe tune previously composed by Ian (or Iain) McLaughlan (or Maclachlan) – I don't know which spelling is correct – but Alan Ross says that Stewart Ross modified the tune a bit to fit his lyrics.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 May 04 - 01:22 PM

In this thread (click) Jim McLean says that These Are My Mountains was written by actor Jimmy Copeland.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:07 PM

ALL THE WHILE was written by Myles Rudge and Ted Dicks. Bernard Cribbins recorded it under the title FOLK SONG.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 10:35 AM

The title SLIEVAMON is misspelled. It should be SLIEVENAMON. That spelling is used in the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 10:56 AM

Reply to IanC, whose message is posted above after my message at 21 Feb 04 - 05:23 PM:

I agree that it's a good idea to be "very, very careful." I AM very, very careful. I carefully cited a source for my information. I can't do any better than that.

I notice you cite only "most authorities." How careful is that?

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 01:45 AM

TICKLE COVE POND is by Mark Walker.

See this site:
Mark Walker was born in Tickle Cove, Bonavista Bay, [Newfoundland, Canada] the son of Marcus Walker of Ireland and Jane (Mackey) Walker of Bonavista, B.B. A boat builder by trade, Mark Walker became well known as a song writer and balladeer--his most famous ballad being "On Tickle Cove Pond". It has been said that he was able to write a song about any subject at any time. Sometime in the mid-1870's he moved from Tickle Cove B.B. to Sweet Bay, B.B.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 06:08 PM

The Ditchling Carol. Roud 3216. Music attributed to Peter Parsons, a shoemaker at Ditchling who died in 1901, aged 76. Waterson-Carthy got the song from Vic Gammon, who found music and text in the MS collection of the Rev K H MacDermott. It was published in Vic's article 'Hail Happy Morn: Two Sussex Band Carols in Old Harmony' (English Dance and Song. London: EFDSS, vol 49 number 3, 1987, 11-13). The DT midi transcription was evidently made by ear from the Waterson-Carthy recording rather than from their source. They mention the ascription to Mr Parsons in their sleeve notes.

The text was collated by Vic Gammon from the MacDermott MS and from a broadside text. The original text appears in volume 3 of The Universal Songster (1827, p 68) as The Joys of Christmas: the author is named as the Hon. W. R. Spencer. I am not the first to have noticed this. John Roberts and Tony Barrand (who also recorded Vic Gammon's collated set) comment "Since the release of this recording [Ditchling Carol], we have discovered that the poem is the work of William Robert Spencer (1769-1834), a grandson of the 3rd Duke of Marlborough. He published it in his Poems (1811)."

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Mark Ross
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 06:47 PM

Proud as I am to see my song BILL PICKETT in the DT, I am curious as to why it's there twice, once as the above and then again as OLD BILL PICKETT. And only on one am I listed as being responsible. Not that I'm complaining , mind you, I'm just curious.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 03:23 PM

If not noted before-
"Olban, or, The White Captive," by Thomas C. Upham, 1818. See Traditional Ballad Index.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 02:55 AM

I'll bet at least a quarter that Song of the Fishes is supposed to have a different title...
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 04:57 AM

"Song of the Fishes" - Used in "Down tho the Sea in Ships," music by Alfred Newman, lyrics Ken Darby, 1949.
In the Burl Ives Songbook.
But the poem was written by L. Frank Baum in 1910. L. Frank Baum Works

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 10:45 PM

COFFEEPOT SONG in the DT should actually be called A PROPER CUP OF COFFEE. It was written by R P Weston & Bert Lee. However I don't think we have a reliable copy of the original lyrics. See this message.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 09:42 AM

CRAZY was written by Willie Nelson and famously recorded by Patsy Cline.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 11:06 PM

WHACK FOL THE DIDDLE (GOD BLESS ENGLAND) was written by Peadar Kearney (not Carney) according to this message, which also contains a lyric correction.

THE ROVING KIND was written by Jesse Cavanaugh and Arnold Stanton, and recorded by Guy Mitchell, by The Weavers, and by Rex Allen.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From:
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 04:40 PM

For Who Threw the Overalls in Mrs. Murphy's Chowder, a guest gave the author's name.