DT Attribution & Minor Corrections - recorded msgs

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Sep 04 - 10:50 PM

These 2 are nearly identical (except for spelling) and therefore redundant:
YE CANNA SHOVE YER GRANNIE
YE CANNA SHOVE YER GRANNY

Also, the spelling inexplicably changes from "canna" to "cannae" and from "grannie" to "granny" within the same set of lyrics. IMO "cannae" and "grannie" are more authentically Scottish.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Sep 04 - 09:52 AM

DARK AS THE DUNGEON should be DARK AS A DUNGEON.

allmusic lists 98 recordings called DARK AS A DUNGEON (including those by Merle Travis) and only 2 called DARK AS THE DUNGEON, both by Johnny Cash. (But even Johnny Cash is inconsistent; he has also recorded it as DARK AS A DUNGEON.)

---

I have the song on two Marle Travis CD's "Dark as A Dungeon" on both of them.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 07:50 AM

John Gibbs wrote IRISH WAYS AND IRISH LAWS.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:35 PM

There are two misspellings in the title of WHISKEY FOR NY JOHNIE. NY should be MY and JOHNIE should probably be JOHNNY, since that's the way it's spelled in the lyrics (and the way Americans usually spell it).

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:34 PM

ANCIENT GREEKS should be titled THE CLASSICAL GREEK, according to the recording we found. See this thread. The attribution is correct.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:27 PM

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 09:50 AM

REDNECKS, WHITE SOCKS AND BLUE RIBBON BEER was written by Chuck Neese, Bob McDill and Wayland Holyfield. It has been recorded by Johnny Russell and by Hank Thompson.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 03:33 PM

as far as I know there hasn't been an release of a new edition of the DT since this thread was started...

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: OldPossum
Date: 29 Jul 04 - 03:26 PM

Some of the things mentioned near the top of this thread: Administrivia still need to be corrected (I am checking against the on-line version of the database).

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 10:00 AM

The song that is called HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU in the DT should properly be called CUT THE CAKE. See John McCutcheon's website. (It is correctly attributed. John recorded it, but he didn't write it.) Also, the way the verses are divided, and the way the chorus is labeled, are incorrect. See JM's website for a better layout.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 07:11 PM

At SWIMMING SONG, Loudon Wainwright III's name is misspelled.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From:
Date: 16 Jul 04 - 04:40 PM

For Who Threw the Overalls in Mrs. Murphy's Chowder, a guest gave the author's name.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Jul 04 - 11:06 PM

WHACK FOL THE DIDDLE (GOD BLESS ENGLAND) was written by Peadar Kearney (not Carney) according to this message, which also contains a lyric correction.

THE ROVING KIND was written by Jesse Cavanaugh and Arnold Stanton, and recorded by Guy Mitchell, by The Weavers, and by Rex Allen.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 07 Jul 04 - 09:42 AM

CRAZY was written by Willie Nelson and famously recorded by Patsy Cline.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 03 Jul 04 - 10:45 PM

COFFEEPOT SONG in the DT should actually be called A PROPER CUP OF COFFEE. It was written by R P Weston & Bert Lee. However I don't think we have a reliable copy of the original lyrics. See this message.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 04:57 AM

"Song of the Fishes" - Used in "Down tho the Sea in Ships," music by Alfred Newman, lyrics Ken Darby, 1949.
In the Burl Ives Songbook.
But the poem was written by L. Frank Baum in 1910. L. Frank Baum Works

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jul 04 - 02:55 AM

I'll bet at least a quarter that Song of the Fishes is supposed to have a different title...
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 03:23 PM

If not noted before-
"Olban, or, The White Captive," by Thomas C. Upham, 1818. See Traditional Ballad Index.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Mark Ross
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 06:47 PM

Proud as I am to see my song BILL PICKETT in the DT, I am curious as to why it's there twice, once as the above and then again as OLD BILL PICKETT. And only on one am I listed as being responsible. Not that I'm complaining , mind you, I'm just curious.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 06:08 PM

The Ditchling Carol. Roud 3216. Music attributed to Peter Parsons, a shoemaker at Ditchling who died in 1901, aged 76. Waterson-Carthy got the song from Vic Gammon, who found music and text in the MS collection of the Rev K H MacDermott. It was published in Vic's article 'Hail Happy Morn: Two Sussex Band Carols in Old Harmony' (English Dance and Song. London: EFDSS, vol 49 number 3, 1987, 11-13). The DT midi transcription was evidently made by ear from the Waterson-Carthy recording rather than from their source. They mention the ascription to Mr Parsons in their sleeve notes.

The text was collated by Vic Gammon from the MacDermott MS and from a broadside text. The original text appears in volume 3 of The Universal Songster (1827, p 68) as The Joys of Christmas: the author is named as the Hon. W. R. Spencer. I am not the first to have noticed this. John Roberts and Tony Barrand (who also recorded Vic Gammon's collated set) comment "Since the release of this recording [Ditchling Carol], we have discovered that the poem is the work of William Robert Spencer (1769-1834), a grandson of the 3rd Duke of Marlborough. He published it in his Poems (1811)."

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 22 Jun 04 - 01:45 AM

TICKLE COVE POND is by Mark Walker.

See this site:
Mark Walker was born in Tickle Cove, Bonavista Bay, [Newfoundland, Canada] the son of Marcus Walker of Ireland and Jane (Mackey) Walker of Bonavista, B.B. A boat builder by trade, Mark Walker became well known as a song writer and balladeer--his most famous ballad being "On Tickle Cove Pond". It has been said that he was able to write a song about any subject at any time. Sometime in the mid-1870's he moved from Tickle Cove B.B. to Sweet Bay, B.B.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 10:56 AM

Reply to IanC, whose message is posted above after my message at 21 Feb 04 - 05:23 PM:

I agree that it's a good idea to be "very, very careful." I AM very, very careful. I carefully cited a source for my information. I can't do any better than that.

I notice you cite only "most authorities." How careful is that?

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 10:35 AM

The title SLIEVAMON is misspelled. It should be SLIEVENAMON. That spelling is used in the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 31 May 04 - 10:07 PM

ALL THE WHILE was written by Myles Rudge and Ted Dicks. Bernard Cribbins recorded it under the title FOLK SONG.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 May 04 - 01:22 PM

In this thread (click) Jim McLean says that These Are My Mountains was written by actor Jimmy Copeland.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 May 04 - 12:13 AM

Regarding THE DARK ISLAND and DARK ISLAND 2:

These related songs have a complicated history that is a bit hard to sort out, but having read several threads on the subject, I believe the lyrics you have called THE DARK ISLAND were indeed written by Stewart Ross, but the lyrics in the DT contain some errors and are missing a verse. The correct version has been posted by the author's son, Alan Ross, here.

The lyrics you call DARK ISLAND 2 were written by David Silver (not "Silver Maclachlan").

Both lyrics were set to a pipe tune previously composed by Ian (or Iain) McLaughlan (or Maclachlan) – I don't know which spelling is correct – but Alan Ross says that Stewart Ross modified the tune a bit to fit his lyrics.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 May 04 - 08:36 AM

PLAYMATE should actually be called PLAYMATES. It was written by Saxie Dowell in 1940. The version in DT is incomplete. We have other longer versions in this thread but I don't know if any of them are reliably "original."

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 May 04 - 05:16 PM

actually a duplicated entry in DT (you may already know about this) HEY, GOOD LOOKIN'
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2621 http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2629

(from Foolestroupe)

---

GOSPEL SHIP http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2373

OLD GOSPEL SHIP http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=4404 identical, seem to have been entered by different people.

(from Foolestroupe)

---

2373 seems to be the better transcription

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 May 04 - 04:23 PM

actually a duplicated entry in DT (you may already know about this) HEY, GOOD LOOKIN'
http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2621 http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=2629

(from Foolestroupe)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 May 04 - 12:57 PM

DOWN BY THE RIVER was written by H. S. Thompson, according to the sheet music at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 May 04 - 03:01 AM

Note that Titanic (7) and Titanic (9) appear to be identical.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 06 May 04 - 01:43 PM

Hoarse douvries singing? Will wonders never cease!

Ouvriers- workers, laborers, mill or factory hands (or girl).

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 May 04 - 02:07 AM

I think we have two copies of "LE CHANT DES OUVRIERS," filename[ CHANTOEV (8620), and filename[ OUVRIER (8619)
What is that - "chant of the egg people"??
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 12:36 AM

The song called DO YOU LOVE ME, MOLLY DARLIN? in the DT should actually be called MOLLIE DARLING. It was written by Will S. Hays in 1872. The sheet music is in the Levy collection. A more complete set of lyrics is posted here.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Apr 04 - 10:06 PM

The song that is called CAMP GRENADA in the DT should actually be called HELLO MUDDAH, HELLO FADDUH! (A LETTER FROM CAMP). It was written by Allan Sherman and Lou Busch. Some sources say "Words, Allan Sherman. Music, Lou Busch" or "... arr. Lou Busch." The music is actually an adaptation of Ponchielli's 1876 composition "Dance of the Hours."

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 10:27 AM

According to the sheet music at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music, TOO-RA-LOO-RA-LOO-RAL THAT'S AN IRISH LULLABY was written by J. R. Shannon in 1913. Other sources say that's James Royce Shannon (1881-1946).

It's usually listed as TOO-RA-LOO-RA-LOO-RAL (THAT'S AN IRISH LULLABY) but the original sheet music lacks parentheses in the title.

The lyrics in the sheet music are identical to TOO-A-LOO-RA-LOO-RAL That's An Irish Lullaby in the DT but note the misspelling of the title and of "I'd" in line 7.

---

Note also that the DT spells the song title incorrectly. It should be TOO-RA-LOO-RA-LOO-RAL
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 07:37 PM

"Steamboat Bill." Words by Ren Shields, music by Leighton Bros. Copyright 1910, Pub. Leighton Bros., at F. A. Mills, NYC.
Sheet music at Levy Sheet music.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 10:45 PM

According to the sheet music at The Library of Congress American Memory Collection, MISS FOGARTY'S CHRISTMAS CAKE was written by C. Frank Horn in 1883. Lyrics more faithful to the sheet music are posted here.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:56 AM

Looks like we have it well-established that the title of the Tom Paxton song should be Goodman and Schwerner and Chaney. The DT has it as "Goodwin" in both the title and the lyrics.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: IanC
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 04:54 AM

Jim

It's wise to be VERY VERY careful about making attributions based on sheet music. Firstly, the publishers are often only claiming copyright over the particular arrangement and second, they frequently lie about the copyright.

In the case of "The Rose of Tralee", most authorities seem to agree that the lyrics are by C. Mordaunt Spencer, published in London in 1845 and th music is by Charles W. Glover.

:-)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 03:27 AM

THE OLD APPLE TREE (IN THE ORCHARD)
(not to be confused with IN THE SHADE OF THE OLD APPLE TREE)
Words, Jack Scholl. Music, M. K. Jerome. 1938.

Written for the Humphrey Bogart movie, "Swing Your Lady" (1938), and the tune was subsequently featured as background music to several Warner Brothers cartoons.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 05:23 PM

THE ROSE OF TRALEE was written by G. F. Francis in 1850, according to sheet music at The Library of Congress American Memory Collection.

---

Thread #49846   Message #1121618
Posted By: IanC
23-Feb-04 - 04:54 AM
Thread Name: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread

Jim

It's wise to be VERY VERY careful about making attributions based on sheet music. Firstly, the publishers are often only claiming copyright over the particular arrangement and second, they frequently lie about the copyright.

In the case of "The Rose of Tralee", most authorities seem to agree that the lyrics are by C. Mordaunt Spencer, published in London in 1845 and the music is by Charles W. Glover.

:-)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 04:56 PM

SWING ON A STAR should actually be called SWINGING ON A STAR. It was written by Johnny Burke and Jimmy Van Heusen in 1944.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:51 PM

ASCAP attributes ROCKING ALONE IN AN OLD ROCKING CHAIR to Bob Miller.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 08:23 AM

From The Library of Congress American Memory Collection:

I DIDN'T RAISE MY BOY TO BE A SOLDIER
(Words, Alfred Bryan. Music, Al Piantadosi. 1915)

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 05:27 PM

PUT ANOTHER LOG ON THE FIRE was actually written by Shel Silverstein, though recorded by Tompall Glaser.

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 08:41 PM

G'day,

This is a correction of what looks like an accidental ommission of a name in the notes to DigiTrad's: BOLD JACK DONOHUE (2), (the version collected by Alan Scott from Mr H. Beatty of Hawthorne Qld). If you look at the second sentence, you will see that it is incomplete. I suspect the original poster was checking the name / spelling ... and then posted without any name at all. This causes confusion, as Alan Scott did not bring out the book - his friend John Meredith did. (Meredith, John, The Donahoe Ballads, Red Rooster Press, Ascot Vale, Victoria, Australia, 1982). The first sentences of the note should be as below (I have bolded the name that was missed out(:

This version collected by Alan Scott from Mr H. Beatty of Hawthorne Qld.
In his booklet The Donahoe Ballads John Meredith gives some 16 tunes that have been collected. ...

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 08:10 PM

Sierry Petes (click), a poor version in the DT as Tying Knots in the Devil's Tail (title by a plagiarist named Jack Lee), has not yet been credited to the author, Gail Gardner.

Someone may have posted this before, but this thread takes too long to sort, let alone find.

---

I'll agree the DT version may be inaccurate and the source may not be identified, but it IS apparently correctly attributed to Gail Gardner. Am I misunderstanding the proposed correction?

I know this page is long, but you can use [CTRL-F] to FIND a keyword on large pages. I have asked Susan to leave corrections requests here on the thread and mark them with the harvesting birdie ^^ so we don't duplicate corrections that have already been posted and noted.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 09:31 PM

As pointed out by Alan Ackerman in this message, IT'S A PLEASURE TO KNOW YOU was actually written by Karl Williams (not Carl) and the last line should be

"But friendship's a diamond, and trouble's the diamond mine."

Also, you might want to add the following note:

[Sung by Karl Williams on his album, "Living at the End of Time." Also sung by Sally Rogers on "When Howie Met Sally," and by Faith Petric on "Faith's Favorites."]

Subject: RE: Attribution added: DT authors PermaThread
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 10:13 PM

The name of the author of ONLY OUR RIVERS RUN FREE is actually MacConnell, not McConnell, and though Michael may be his birth name, he seems to always use the name Mickey on his albums and at his official website. (He also uses the name Chordstrangler at Mudcat. Click here.)

There are also a few errors in the lyrics. Compare with the text at the official website.