Pete Seeger's last concert

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peace
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 06:26 PM

Does anyone know where Meeka is?

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: EBarnacle
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 07:26 PM

I just looked up Oh, Had I a Golden Thread" in "Where have all the Flowers Gone?" According to Pete, he got his inspiration from "Nearer My God to Thee." One thing about Pete, he makes it a point to cite his sources.

I expect to see him Oct 2 at the Clearwater Annual Meeting, where he will pick up his banjo and do a song or two. He has been contemplating retirement for quite a while. Neither he nor Toshi is as young as they were and they wish to enjoy their works, which are many.

He is aware of his deterioration and is handling it like the gentleman he is. When Lady Hillary and I ran into him at the Revival, he said "I know I know you but I forget your name." I supplied it and introduced him to Lady Hillary.

One thing that gets little mention is his art work. He is an inveterate sketcher and painter. If you have one of his drawings, you have a treasure. He did many as throwaways but they are really nice. [Take that from my other hat as an art dealer.]

He has been a participant in and a spur to many of the public actions of the past 65 years. He has not been an idle observer. How many people can say they created a movement that saved a river?

In re: Palestine Pete does not line up against, except what he sees as injustice and hate. He is for the Palestinian and Israeli people, not the killers. When peace comes, part of the reason will be people who grew up singing his songs together. He has been consistent in this sort of stand for at least the past 35 years.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 08:20 PM

Well put!! He has sung and supported both sides over the years (think back to the 50s and up to the present).   Humanity is what he is about.   And his talent and charisma helps achieve his and, hopefully our, goals.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: MAG
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 09:27 PM

He was at the Jonesborough Storytelling Festival not all that long ago, and less than 10   years ago was at Folklife in Seattle.

Folklife   is free; the storytelling has an admission charge but nobody gets paid. Both times he got people siiinging with little apparent effort.

One class act. no pun intended. or, maybe it was.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 07:39 AM

JeffM (who was at the concert) emailed me at 2:00AM this morning!!! Sounds like it was a great show and quite a party!!! Details, JeffM, Details. And Mike, and anyone else who was there.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 10:28 AM

TOTAL BLISS!! Having missed Pete Seeger all those years (not being an obsessive folkie till I got here), I assumed I would never see him when he stopped really performing, and then to have THE WEAVERS (Cripes!) show up on the doorstep!! Got into line about 7, and got in -- can't tell you what a thrill it was just knowing I had got in. The Elgin was packed (old theatre, perfect place, everyone close), and we started off with the film (some sound problems at the outset, which was a laugh) -- a fine film, captures the Carnegie Hall concert well, and some of the history, just a great wallow. And then Roger Ebert came out, introduced Harold (Harold!) to a massive standing ovation, and then out came the Weavers, very simply, Eric Darling, Fred Hellerman, Ronnie Gilbert (who I had seen before), Pete Seeger (Pete Seeger!!!), and Eric Weissberg. They sang four songs, When the Saints, Music in My Mother's House, Wimoweh, and (surprise) Goodnight Irene. The most touching moments for me were when Pete did a little bango work (frail, not frailing), and, at the end of Irene, he took the verse that ended with: "Sing me one last song." And then they were gone. Man o man. The Weavers!! Man o man!! Still buzzing!!

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Amos
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 10:44 AM

Aww, PT, I am so happy for you to have been there!! What a thrill, man!!

A

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 10:47 AM

Fascinating reading. As a side issue, does vitriolic posting come with automatically poor spelling and grammar, or is it the result of real effort?

I still have several Weaver's LPs, and two or three of Seeger's songbooks. They still get used. More power to him; a great folkie, and a great human being.

Regards to the less vitriolic,

Shimbo

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 03:32 PM

Oh, Peter, that's fantastic! My husband and I just got back from seeing the movie at the Varsity. The film is challenging, moving, informative, magical and fun. It treats the subject with passion and integrity. It is a MUST SEE MOVIE!!!!!

Great to have the introduction and QA period afterward, as part of the film festival.

What made it even more special for us was that we'd just seen Arlo Guthrie up at the Ottawa Folk Festival at the end of August, which made the whole thing feel a bit more personal.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 03:49 PM

Oh, and one more thing - Leon Bibb's Shenandoah is a real highlight in the film.   Stunningly beautiful.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,A music lover but politics hater
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 07:22 PM

He is such a hack his music doesnt outweigh the BS politics of the whole generation of "folkies" most of whom are nothing but a bunch of pacifistic liberal cloueless........

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 08:40 PM

I had just written to a friend about the concert when I found the review and article in the Canadian paper. Wish I had been there---sounds fantastic. Only re-union I ever missed.

I only hope the film is released soon in the U S. Will rank, I am sure, right up there with Wasn't That A Time---and, sadly, the final documentary on this---perhaps not.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 01:14 AM

Thanks to you all for posting these details of what went on. I just about feel like I was there with you.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Cretinous Yahoo
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 07:30 AM

Guest, music lover...and MG, save your breath for your blow up dates.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:29 AM

JeffM sat right behind PeteS at the movie Friday night. We wonder if JeffM will ever descend from his cloud of joy and write something on this thread?

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: kendall
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:41 AM

Pete Seeger is an angel on earth.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 10:07 AM

Still buzzing! I forgot to mention a few things, not the least of which was Ronnie telling all the Americans in the audience that they had a little more than a month before they too could change the world!!
There was a particularly nice moment in the film when Harold talks about how Pete Seeger represented for many people around the world the real America -- love of liberty, equality, hope for the downtrodden of the world. Got a big round of applause.

Ronnie also mentioned a 94 year old woman running for Congress (is that right?) in New Hampshire!

I figure the Weavers should go on tour with the movie. I mean, just because the movement has used them up a million times, and they have earned their rest a million times, why not one more squeeze from the selfish so and sos like me, their fans? Their open heartedness is such a difference from the truly dinosauric, crabbed, cramped, hopeless, selfish dark grimness of which there is much evidence abroad (and some in the thread above)

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: curmudgeon
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:01 AM

Doris "Granny D" Haddock is running for U. S. Senate here in NH. She made the news a few years back when she walked across the country agitating for campaign finance reform. She is a charming and very feisty lady who speaks clearly yet eloquently, to the issues.

Jeri, Bat Goddess and I had the pleasure and honor of meeting her last month when we performed for the Strafford County Democratic Picnic.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:15 AM

[Thread creep alert]
Peter, it's Doris Granny D Haddock, and she's running for U.S. Senate. Her web page is here. Go read it, I think you'll find her fascinating. She just recently legally changed her name to have 'Granny D' added, because that's how people know her.

I'd heard about her and didn't take her very seriously. BIG mistake. I met her early last month and heard her speak. She's a Force With Which to be Reckoned in a teeny little 94 year-old body surmounted by a funny hat. (I had the honor of being gently poked in the eye with that feather while posing for a photo.) Read her speeches - some of the best I've ever read.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: black walnut
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 12:18 PM

On Saturday morning they said that there would be a tour, Peter. They said that the Weavers had felt so positive about the concert and the response that they were talking about doing some more concerts with the movie.

Not official, but that's what they said on Saturday.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 01:04 PM

Guest Cretenous Yahoo.

Guest Music Lover, speaking for whomever that is, and I will not save our breath for anything but to tell how we really feel about something.

So deal with it.

This is not your exclusive thread.   None are.

I love music. Politics in folk music's greatest enemy.   It's what unfortunately has been killing the genre.

Don't you get it? No one cares much anymore. Enjoy music for it's melodies, harmonies, poetic lyrics, and universal language.

Screw politics in music.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 02:05 PM

MG,MG,MG! There! Happy?

My first memories of hearing Pete Seeger was at a Bowdoin College concert in Maine back in the 1950's that my parents dragged me to. I was amazed that he got so many people singing along with him, and some of the songs weren't even in English!

When I got to college, years later, I had my own Folkways collection of Seeger albums and was delighted to find a few other folks there who wanted to learn how to sing and play the tunes. We had a great time riding the wave of the early 1960's folk scare. Somewhere along the way I also bought the "Goofing Off Suite" which opened my ears to what a range of things could be done with the banjo. I still play "Meadowlands" but have resisted converting it into a sea shanty!

I once sat down with Seeger at a People Music gathering, asking his advice about getting my collection of tenant and neighborhood organizing songs published. He didn't think it would be an easy job and he was certainly correct but he encouraged me to keep at it.

Pete's legacy is certainly long and inspiring, and it's not over yet, and I doubt if it will be over a hundred years from now. As long as someone is still singing his songs and creating new ones in the same wonderful spirit, his legacy will continue.

Yours in struggle,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 02:16 PM

Oh Martin, you're at it again.

Politics in folksong....not for you, okay.

For Woody Guthrie, Ewan MacColl, Billy Bragg......pretty much meat and drink.

What guest said to you wasn't nice, but he gave name to that sort of comment himself. Like you said shun it. Don't blame Pete Seeger and upset his friends

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 03:11 PM

Considering that an anonymous Guest spoke out, I'm afraid that's the breaks.

I don't blame Pete Seeger for anything.

But I've never bought his records, either. It doesn't mean that I haven't heard them.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 03:26 PM

That would be so great if they would. 4 songs was hardly enough, we would have stayed there for a couple of hours -- revival meeting!! Maybe we will be able finally to thank George W. for something -- getting the Weavers so pissed off they went back to playing.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 06:31 PM

MG,

Don't agree with you. Folk music is not being killed by politics. On the contrary folk music (such as "Freiheit" and "De Gedanken Sind Frei," "Wimoweh," "Follow the Drinking Gourd," "Yankee Doodle Dandy," "Shule Roon," "Union Maid," "We Shall Overcome," "This Land is Your Land," "Zog Nit Keinmal") as well as pieces from other musical genres (the 1812 Overture, the Polonaise) have historically been infused by and have infused politics. The reason is that it not only the facts that influence people, but it's the spirit that gets them off their collective butts, gives them courage, gives them hope, clarifies and distills a range of feelings. And folk music particularly -- with lyrics and music -- galvanizes that spirit. Always has. Still does. Always will.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 07:45 PM

And "Which Side Are You On" sums it all up.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:31 PM

It doesn't sum up anything.

Popular country music far outshadows folk music today as the political voice of the masses.

The songs you mentioned lucky P are from a different era.

Many people, myself included have no need for politics in folk music. I would rather just be entertained by it or to entertain an audience.

I can't stand watching folk performers trying to shove their ideologies down everyone's throats just because they have the stage.

Shut up and sing.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Suffet
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:34 PM

For what it's worth, Pete Seeger is already booked to appear in two concerts for the People's Music Network in New York next January. The first will be Friday night, January 28, 2005, at the Brooklyn High School for the Arts in Downtown Brooklyn. The other will be a children's concert on Saturday morning, January 29, 2005, at the Renaissance Charter School in Jackson Heights, Queens. Pete will be accompanied at the RSC by members of MacDougal Street Rent Party.

The Brooklyn concert will feature a number of choral groups, including the Brooklyn Women's Chorus, Harmonic Insurgence, and the Disabled In Action Singers. It wil be open to the general public. For ticket information, please call Bev Grant at [phone], or e-mail her at:

[e-mail]

The Jackson Heights concert will be restricted to Renaissance Charter School students and to children of people attending the PMN Winter Gathering. More information will eventually be available on the PMN website:

http://www.peoplesmusic.org/

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,God
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:45 PM

Don't waste your time arguing with an idiot. (My fault. I made him that way. Came out of a bad batch. Mutter mutter mutter.)

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:48 PM

Martin:

It depends how you understand the role of Politics and folk musicians' relationship to it. Regarding folk music and modern era, I am sure we both know of legions of folk musicians (singer songwriters) and non folk musicians who wrote pieces as a way of "coming to terms" with 9/11 (of course, you can't ever come to terms with 9/11, but nonetheless attempts were made...); most notably, Judy Collins and Springsteen. Robin Greenstein wrote a great piece, Christine Lavin also wrote one -- many others, too. These were not attempts to shove their political agendas down listeners' throats. The songs are, however, musical responses to a political event, responses to deal with an unspeakable tragedy which, as I said in my earlier post, is a role that folk music (and other musical genres and other forms of art), has always played, to wit: clarifying and distilling feelings. The facts about what happened are one thing, but the feelings of enormous sorrow, shock, mourning, fear, courage. Not to mention Judy Collins' use of "Amazing Grace" as an attempt to bind up the nation's wounds. I rest my case.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 08:49 PM

Therein lies the problem with Guests---run to another computer and be clever---right ----god?

I may not agree with Martin on many issues and may not like many of his responses but, hopefully, I answer them in an intelligent way.

Sadly the debating form is being prostituted by "zzzholes"
as yourself.

You know who I am so ---no signature

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 09:22 PM

Alan Jackson wrote a good one also lucky p.

But it all depends how you look at it. 9/11 was in my opinion was by far a human nightmare as opposed to a political event. I have no problem with that at all. Music should reflect different emnotions of human spirit. I just don't see songs about 9/11 being a rant about a political agenda.

It was much more of a political event to Al Quada I would think.

My case rests, also.

Bill H., thanks for saying what I've been saying for a while. I may not be perfect, but I really do believe I make Guests like that moron look the schmucks they are.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: RichM
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 09:25 PM

Actually, Guest God is right; Martin speaks through his zzzhole.

An unfortunate plumbing anomaly, but don't blame yourself, G!
Most of your creations work fine.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 10:53 PM

What's this "shoving their ideologies down people's throats"?

This form of music is seldom or never inflicted on the unwilling. It is perhaps "preaching to the choir", or "consciousness raising" among those likely to be receptive. If one goes to a P. Seeger concert, he's presenting his position to those who have CHOSEN to be there and receive it. You, MG, are not likely to just wander into his concert, thinking it's a circus or something, and get Pete's ideology "shoved down your throat". If you're there, it's because you wanted to be there. Those who dislike his choice of repertoire should and do avoid exposure.

And if a political song of Pete's happens to get played on a radio show you're listening to for other reasons, there's several scenarios:
1. You turn the radio down or off or to another station.
2. You go get a cup of coffee or a beer.
3. You wait (impatiently, I suppose) while it plays. If you do that, it's clearly not offending you enough to do 1 or 2, so it can't be too bad, can it? In any case, it's not going to change your ideological outlook. Nothing is "shoved down your throat".

If his presentation of his ideology bothers you so much, even though you're not required to listen or to like it or agree with it, then I tend to think you have a lack of confidence in the validity and solidity of your own position.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Mike Regenstreif
Date: 19 Sep 04 - 11:50 PM

The world premiere of "Isn't This A Time," followed by a
short performance by The Weavers (Pete Seeger, Ronnie Gilbert, Fred
Hellerman and Erik Darling with Eric Weisberg)was a very special,
awe-inspiring night.

The film is a documentary about the tribute concert, held in November
2003, in honour of Harold Leventhal at Carnegie Hall. The featured artists included Arlo Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Leon Bibb, Theo Bikel, Peter, Paul & Mary, Tao Rodriguez Seeger, Sarah Lee Guthrie & Johnny Irion, and The Weavers. Jim Brown, who directed "Wasn't That A Time," about the Weavers' 1980 reunion, did a spectacular job of capturing the concert and a lot of wonderful off-stage moments. And more than just a concert film, it also tells the story of Harold Levanthal's lifetime involvement in folk music and how he defied and masterminded the end of the McCarthy-era blacklist. This is a film not to be missed by anyone who loves folk music.

After the screening, Harold was introduced, said a few words and received a richly deserved standing ovation.

Then the Weavers came out and sang "When the Saints Go Marching In,"
"Music In My Mother's House" and "Wimoweh." Although I've seen Pete
perform on dozens and dozens of occasions, and Ronnie on several, this was the first time I've ever had the opportunity to experience the Weavers, as a group, in person. They were inspired and inspiring. After a standing ovation, they returned to the stage and led us in singing "Goodnight Irene." I can now say that I've sung "Goodnight Irene" with The Weavers.

At the party later on, I was chatting with Pete Seeger, and telling him how much it meant to me to have been there that night, when Roger Ebert walked over and said the same thing to Pete.

Nora Guthrie introduced me to Harold Leventhal, who I was able to thank for being a great role model for those of us non-performers involved in folk music, and to Fred Hellerman, who I'd never met before, but whose music has inspired me since childhood.

It was one of those events that remind us why we do what we do, and why what we do is so important, particularly in these times.

Mike Regenstreif

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:17 AM

Martin, do you know the work of Ralph mcTell at all?

He's one of England's best picker/singer/songwriters - in my book the best. Some of his work is very political. In the Thatcher years we lived through 'which side are you on' sort of times.

Try to imagine the cannon of Irish music without the beautiful rebel songs.

Something has got you worked up - Ithink you need to be more specific for us to understand your point.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 09:40 AM

Let me be devils advocate for a moment. While I disagree with Martin about political music, I am rather surprised at the outrage being thrown at him because he doesn't like Pete Seeger. Is it not a bit hypocritical? I think one of the lessons I've learned from Pete is that we create our own music and choose to learn from diverse cultures and thought. Martin expresses a different point of view about folk music, and some people get their back up against the wall. To turn Uncle Dave O's point around, it seems like some of us have become defensive because of a lack of confidence in our position.

What Martin referred to early on was the divergence in schools of thought on folk music.   Read Ronald Cohen's brilliant book about the folk revival. He shows how the folk revival grew in the 20th century, and he points out how leftist politics grabbed hold of ONE aspect of folk music and built an audience. We tend to think of people like Pete Seeger, Woody Guthrie and all the great writers who have carried on that legacy, but we tend to overlook the conservative movement that also made the folk revival possible. Staunch conservatives like John Jacob Niles and John Lomax shunned the politics of the music in favor of capturing a snapshot of the culture that created it.   You can argue that politics played an important role in development of a culture, but that was not their focus. They were responsible for mining a different aspect of our heritage, and while we can also argue that they censored their own work, I think the same can be said for the left. I think that is apparent when we see so many people knocking Martin because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music.

Because most of us grew up in the folk revival generation - safe to say from the late 40's through the 60's (and maybe later).   Folk music during that period had a strong connection with the left. That connection is very important to me. As someone above said, some of it is preaching to the choir, but I think that is extremely important. Those who sang "We Shall Overcome" during marches during the civil rights movement gained strength from the words.

I urge everyone to read Ron Cohen's book - Rainbow Race. He describes it more eloquently than I can, but it really helps give perspective on the music we love and perhaps will give some people an understanding of where Martin is coming from.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 10:48 AM

Ron Olesko said, in part:

"While I disagree with Martin about political music, I am rather surprised at the outrage being thrown at him because he doesn't like Pete Seeger. Is it not a bit hypocritical?"
* * *
"I think that is apparent when we see so many people knocking Martin because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music."

I disagree with the premise of these two excerpts, Ron. I think the "outrage" has to do not with MG's disliking Pete Seeger or his work, but with the often offensive, emotional tone with which he expresses it. MG has made a number of worthwhile contributions in various threads, but he seems to go out of his way to be objectionable sometimes, and that sort of thing feeds on itself, just cries for a hostile reply. And of course that gets MG's back up, and he intensifies things, and away we go!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:02 AM

Dave, you proved my point.   People are reacting to Martin's tone and acting in the same manner that they found offensive. Because you disagree with a perceived offensive tone, you react the same way. That IS hypocritical.   The hostile replies, as you say, intensify things and the whole message is lost.   

Belief in ones convictions should allow for a dignified response that does not sink to the level that you object to.

I'm not pointing the finger directly at you Dave since your post was not angry in tone, but if you read many of the posts online you see the connections.   People complain that Mudcat has evolved to mudslinging, and they do not realize that they are part of the problem.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:14 AM

Agree with Ron Olesko -- the book, to which he is referring, is entitled, Rainbow Quest (unless Ron, there is another book of which I am not familiar?)

Thanks.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 11:44 AM

My error in the title - thanks for the correction Lucky! The book is indeed Rainbow Quest.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Peter T.
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 12:44 PM

As a zillion people have said before on this site, folk music is political, as is country music, as is any kind of music -- the form, its roots, its tone, its subject matter are drenched in politics. Deciding that music should shut up and just entertain us is a political position -- you want a dream anaesthetized entertainment space. This is what I call "gated music".

Why has no one put Pete's TV programmes on DVD?

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 01:48 PM

If Pete were not political, he wouldn't have had the influence in the idea of folk music that many have. You can't separate an artist from his/her politics. Even a banal empty commercial offering on TV of the inane musical nature is a political statement that says "don't bother me with anything significant, I belong to the corporate establishment that makes me say what they want you to hear."

That's how the music business works. Don't rock the boat if you want airplay which is a political statement in itself.

Many traditional folk songs contain objectionable material about black people, foreigners, abuse of women, or some are just plain dirty songs (a form of folk music.) Some laud the violent exploits of Kings and some reflect other views than ones advocated by the left-wing. Just because it's trad doesn't make it redeeming or particularly deserving of praise in my view.
Traditional folk music is neutral in that it can be doggerel, offensive or wonderful. It's not all great art, however. Even some songs advocating political policy are trite pamphlets rather than insightful reporting. All of them are a comment on the times in which they were created.

But human beings are political animals otherwise they wouldn't survive.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:26 PM

Ron:

I think we are talking past each other.

My response was to your own language, to wit:

"because he doesn't like Pete Seeger. Is it not a bit hypocritical?"
   and
"when we see so many people knocking Martin because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music."

My point is that most of the hostile reaction to MG is not "because he doesn't like Pete Seeger" or "because he has another view of Pete Seeger's music."

While an angry or impolite response to an offensively phrased (as opposed to unpopular content) post is not pretty or to be desired, I don't think that "hypocritical" is an accurate characterization.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:48 PM

Dave, deal with this:

Pete Seeger is way down there in my folk music favorites.

Why? because of the continuous political overtones that overshadows what could be just good music. Yes, I tune that type of folk music out. No, I do not want to go to any concerts of his.

Now,is that hostile? Hardly. Ron Olesko has explained to you quite clearly on the two schools of folk music and I thank him for his support.

weelittledrummer, no I am not familiar with the work of Ralph Mctell. Thanks anyhow, as English folk music is something I am not the least bit interested in let alone political English folk music.

RicjM, take a look at how much that you have contributed to this thread's discussion and you will realize that you only agreed with someone who can best be classified as a moron.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 04:55 PM

You are right, we may be talking past each other.   

Again, my comments were not directed at you Dave. Some of the comments I've read here and in other threads do seem to take umbrage at Martin as a person. I do think that is hypocritical to react that way. No, you do not have to accept his statements and I'm not defending what he has said in other threads. Pete sings of love and understanding. We do not have to accept offensive statements from others, but we should not react in kind.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: lucky_p
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:13 PM

Martin,

I don't understand what you gain by snapping at people -- I find it offensive -- not what you say, but how you say it. When you say, "I'm not the least bit interested in English folk music," that is certainly okay. But not the way you say it. You say it in a way that snaps at people, and I don't understand why. If you don't like English folk music, why can't you say, "I appreciate your input about Ralph McTell -- I've never heard him, and I'm probably not going to seek him out. But thanks for the info."

These are two different ways of saying, "I'm not interested." Your way is hostile -- it's honest -- but it's hostile. My way is just as honest, but it's diplomatic and kind.

I'm wondering, how do you think it serves you to be at best, brutally honest, and not diplomatic and kind?

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:22 PM

Martin - I do think you are missing out by not listening to English folk music, but that is your choice. Ralph McTell is a brilliant musician. It is funny, I don't really think of him as a political musician, although I am reminded of that aspect of his work through weelittledrummer's post.   I guess each of us take what we want from folk music. Frank Hamilton's post was wonderful. Politics and art do mix, and we would not have the canon of traditional music without politics.

Again, to each their own. I admire Martin for being "brutally honest". It is his choice to listen to whatever he desires. For me, I welcome the opportunity to be exposed to new ideas and souncs, and THAT is what folk music and Pete Seeger represent to me.

Subject: RE: Pete Seeger's last concert
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 05:35 PM

Politics aside, what has always been most remarkable about Pete Seeger is (as others have noted above) how well he could "play the audience" -- engage everyone, get 'em to sing along, etc.

Of course, that concern for other humans is probably just what his political convictions were and are all about.