Nic Jones In The Daily Mail

Subject: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: cptsnapper
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 07:50 AM

There's a question & response about Nic's recording career on page 53 of today's Daily Mail.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Les from Hull
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 08:03 AM

Well that's very interesting. Are you trying to sell the Daily Mail?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 08:08 AM

I'm certainly not going to buy it though I hope they paid Nic. Can somebody with the right sort of fancy software please scan the appropriate bit of p.53 and post it for all to see?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 08:15 AM

Yeah, I second that - can it be scanned or anything? Not all of us Jones fans live in the UK :-)

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: cptsnapper
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:11 AM

With regard to Les's contribution no more than I'd be trying to sell any newspaper which had an article which I thought was worthy of note. I've already contacted the Mail to rebut the headline to the piece. Unfortunately I don't know how to scan it but I'm sure that someone will be able to.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:18 AM

I don't think it is legal to scan copyrighted material and posting it without permission.   Can anyone at least give a summary of what the article contains?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:27 AM

Someone wrote to the newspaper asking the question why Nic had only recorded one album.

The response was basically that there is only one album (Penguin Eggs) currently available through commercial outlets, but there are eight in existence.

His horrific injuries after the accident when returning home from Glossop Folk Club were mentioned, along with his unique playing style that so many have since mimicked.

It was quite a long and interesting response - a pity we don't see more such!

I didn't pay for this information - the local café has a copy available when I go for lunch!

;o>

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:30 AM

I'm just curious - why does there seem to be an issue with paying for a newspaper?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:34 AM

It's because it's a disgusting right-wing rag which no self-respecting leftie would normally touch. However, I've just gone and bought it and will transcribe then post if no-one beats me to it. The headline if 'Forgotten Folk Hero'. What's wrong with that?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Phil Manchester
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:36 AM

Ron - I assume you are not from the UK. The Daily Mail has a reputation for being slightly to the right of Genghis Khan. Not the sort of paper you would expect to see a query about Nic.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:40 AM

I ahve emailed the stupid paper to ask why the bit is not on their website.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:41 AM

Because of the type of newspaper it is. Tabloid equivalent of your Fox News in the USA.

I had a look at the Mail's website, but the search didn't throw up anything about this. Perhaps they haven't got round to putting some of today's stuff online yet and it might be there later on.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:42 AM

No, I am not from the UK.   I see your point, and I admire you for not buying it - but even though you don't buy the paper you end up supporting it by just reading a copy. A boycott should be 100%, not just a matter of convenience.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 09:57 AM

Q Why did Nic Jones produce only one album?

A Nic Jones has in fact produced eight solo albums - five studio recordings and three sets of remastered live material - but the critically acclaimed Penguin Eggs (1980) is the only studio album widely available.

The four earlier ones, Ballads & Songs (1970), Nic Jones (1971), Noah's Ark Trap (1977) and From The Devil To A Stranger (1978) remain highly prized among collectors of vinyl.

Jones was part of the English folk revival of the late Sixties and early Seventies, first as a memeber of the group The Halliard, with whom he produced the albums It's The Irish In Me (1967) and The Halliard And Jon Raven (1967). He enjoyed rave reviews for his moving vocals as wel as his prowess on guitar and fiddle.

Jones' guitar style was unique in its day and has been much imitated since. He played with a plastic thumb pick but not his finger nails. Instead he opted to grasp and pluck the strings of his guitar which led to the slapping down onto the fingerboard with no small force, a technique similar to that employed when plucking the lute.

Jones was much in demand in the Seventies and played on some of the top folk albums of the time, appearing for luminaries such as Richard Thompson, Maddie (sic) Pryor and June Tabor. He also contributed to a short-lived folk outfit called Bandoggs who produced a single eponymous album in 1978.

His legend was secured by the release of Penguin Eggs in 1980, the decade's finest folk album which brilliiantly showcased his talents. His arrangement of Canadee-i-o, an excellent example of his guitar style, was copied by Bob Dylan and used on his 1992 album Good As I Been To You. Despite this being an excellent album, many feel that Jones should have been credited for the arrangement.

Disaster struck in 1982 when Jones was involved in a serious car acceident when driving home from a gig at Glossop Folk Club. He broke several bones, suffered brain damage and was hospitalised for eight months. Sadly he still suffers some co-ordination problems and feels he is unable to play the guitar well enough to perform. He lives in York where he does daily battle with his guitar and continues a long love affair with the game of chess.

His wife Julia set up the label Mollie Music which has issues albums of remastered live material from Jones' early career.

Henry Giggs, Newcastle Upon Tyne

ex Daily Mail, 6 February 2007

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Cats
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:07 AM

It's probably in beacause he won the Good Tradition Award in the Radio 2 Folk Awards yesterday.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:08 AM

And as the piece is short on accuracy on what is available, this is a complete discography from his website:

http://www.nicjones.net/discs.htm

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: redsnapper
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:11 AM

Appalling right-wing gutter-rag though The Mail may be... it's at least good to see something, however incomplete, about Nic in the press. Thanks to CR for transcribing!

RS

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:25 AM

hear hear cr
chris

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:32 AM

For me boycotting a paper doesn't mean I might not read it, just that I avoid buying it.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:37 AM

Thats not a boycott then.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:42 AM

Oh lads, please!! How about just calling it

getting-the-contents-without-paying-for-it-so-THERE ??

Like redsnapper, I'm just glad to see some decent PR about Nic that keeps his name in the public eye without resorting to the usual gossip or one-sided rubbish

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:43 AM

If you do not cross a picket line, that doesn't mean you let someone else go into the store for you.   If you boycott grapes to protest the treatment of migrant workers, you do not pick up a handful at the buffet table.

That is exactly what you do when you read a paper that you supposedly boycott.   When you read the paper, you are seeing the advertisements and getting the information that the editors wish you to see. Whether it is on your dime or someone else, the effect is the same.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:45 AM

In normal circumstances I would obviously not support the Daily Mail in any way. Today I bought it in order to let people here see what had appeared in a highly unusual source where it may well be read by many thousands who might otherwise never have heard about Nic Jones.

Thus I would prefer to view the contribution of 45p I have made reluctantly to Associated Newspapers rather as a very small one towards publicising the work of a musician who has been long deprived of income because of the limited availability of his work.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:51 AM

Ron Olesko, I would quote from or even, if pushed, buy The Times if by doing so it served the purpose that my buying the DM did today. Yes, I'd even hand one squid over to Rupy. And I was fired from Wapping then picketed outside. This is about Nic Jones, not despised media moguls.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:52 AM

"Going into the store" means you BUY something. They're not getting any money if someone reads this story without paying for it. I suppose it comes down to the semantics of the word "boycott", which I am quite happy not to use (and didn't). I think the main thrust of not buying this paper is that it withholds financial support - they're not going to know or benefit from what a non-customer happens to see (and you can always ignore the adverts).

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:54 AM

I cross-posted with Diane -

YES, this is about NIC

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:57 AM

Ron, the Mail has supported every right wing shit from Benito Mussolini to the present day. they are not nice people.

however such is the parlous state of the folk music revival in England, that we look for chinks of light wherever they come from.

I wonder how far back you have to go to see an article before that one, in a popular English newspaper about a folk artist.

One or two obituaries maybe.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:09 AM

I agree, I am glad that ANY publicity gets shone upon the world of folk music.

Bonnie, say what you will about ignoring the adverts, but subliminally you cannot avoid them. It doesn't matter if they know or not, the idea is that you know. "Going into the store" does not necessarily mean that you buy something. It shows you crossed a picket line. As you said, the people on the line are not going to know if you bought something or not. It is your decision. We can justify our actions to soothe our conscious, the spin doctors do that daily.

My point is that you can't call it a boycott if you make exceptions.   There is nothing wrong with making exceptions as long as you understand what you are doing.

I'm not a fan of boycotts, although I understand and respect them. They can be very hypocritcal.   I remember a famous story that Dave Van Ronk complained to Oscar Brand about Oscar playing Burl Ives on his radio program.   Van Ronk was upset because Ives stance during the HUAC hearings and felt that his music should not be heard on the radio. Brand replied "Dave, we on the "left" do not blacklist". Point well taken.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:11 AM

... and if this thread is "about Nic", then why where the original comments about the Daily Mail added?   If you open up the conversation to sidebars, you can't suddenly stop them.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,Guest - Icarus Allsorts
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:19 AM

That's the downside of sites like this - some nutter completely misses the point, goes off at a tangent saddled on his hobby horse.
Bugger the 45p, three cheers for Nic!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:22 AM

Yeah, I'm a "nutter". Wonderfully witty observation.

I am very glad that Nic is getting recognition. I think the Topic CD that was release late last year was superb - one of my favorites of the year. Put your "45p" towards buying a copy of that! Support Nic.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:29 AM

Ron, I have learnt to respect you and your opinions over the years - you are almost always right.

Sadly I do think you have missed the point. It is a culture gap I suspect.

Because of his immense talent and because of the tragic way people are no longer able to share it live - Nic is loved by everyone. He was also badly treated by a record company who have his music and spent a long time not releasing it. Diane did not give the full story up there. But search for Bulmer or celtic music in Mudcat for a fuller version of the story.

I would never buy the Mail, nor would I buy it so I could post something on here - like Diane has done - but I am now happy to read it.....

And I have done my share of picket lines - mine and other peoples.
We once had a brilliant strike with fantastic organisation - and amazing publicity lined up.

They released Mandela to take the limelight off us..........There is no limit to the extent the capitalist class will go....

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: cptsnapper
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:33 AM

So could we have a list of the papers which we should read & the people that we should listen to?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:33 AM

Dave, I do not think I missed the point. I know the story of Nic Jones, Bulmer, etc.   I am not disagreeing at all that the story in the Mail is a good thing.

What appears to be making people uncomfortable is the fact that people make exceptions to what they thought were their principles. Others brought up the Daily Mail before I questioned the issue. You can't stand on principle and then make an exception when it suits your purpose. Maybe it a cultural thing.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:43 AM

You all need to know that I have now ripped said copy of the Daily Mail into pieces and put it into my green Haringey recycling box. It has served its purpose and the newsagent has promised not to tell my neighbours that I ever bought it. Dave is right in saying that I didn't tell the full story above but that was deliberate. Here is not the place when something potentially positive is happening for Nic Jones: yesterday the Good Tradition Award for Game Set Match, today an unexpected boost from a tabloid. At long last his music is getting out there. The fact that I reluctantly parted with 45p to Associated Newspapers rather than to Mollie is not going to either retard or hasten the fall of capitalism and I already have everything Nic has recorded anyway. But if it will make Ron Olesko feel better about me, I put a cheque for 45p in the post to York now . . .

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:51 AM

Countess, I was not feeling bad about you or anyone else. I'm sorry if my comments made you and anyone else feel uncomfortable.   

I would have bought the newspaper as well. I just would not say that I am boycotting it. When you make a definitive stand, you can't make exceptions.

I think Fox News is destroying what little crediblity the media in our country. Do I watch them? No.   Will I say that I boycott them? No.   Do I buy the New York Post? No. Will I say that I will never buy a copy? No. There might be an article or an interview about someone of importance to the American folk community that I will want to read or watch.

There are exceptions. Making a good fight is one thing, but don't call it something that it isn't.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,mike. halifax uk
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

it's said 'don't argue with idiots.. observers may see the difference'...

I for one have all of Nic's Vinyl records. A giant in English folk music. He was and still is unique. Close this thread and get over all this 'newspaper' tosh.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 12:19 PM

I can't argue with you there Mike!

I apologize to everyone if my comments were not taken in the spirit that I meant them. I did not mean to drift the thread, nor did I wish to take anything away from Nic. I was not the one who first brought up the comments about the Daily Mail, and I am now very sorry I asked what that was about.   Mudcat sure can stifle conversations and discussion. I had forgotten how defensive people get when questioned. Sorry.

I urge everyone to go to the Nic Jones website and pickup a couple of CD's.   He is unique and I think the recent releases can bring his music to a new generation. I do try to play as much of his music as I can on my radio show and I will do so again this Sunday. What happened to Nic is the real tragedy and I hope more people will learn what a treasure he is. For me, someone on the other side of the pond, I wish I had the opportunity to hear him when he was still performing on stage.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:28 PM

Sod the Daily Mail...
Quite independently, I was waiting to meet someone off a train at Kings Cross station at 11 o'clock this morning,...suddenly get a tap on the Shoulder...Nic and Julia heading back home to York after a swanky night in a Hotel.
Even got to hold his award (Oo-Er Missus....Carry On moment there)
He seemed very chipper. Apparently, Ms Rusby who presented the award was more nervous.
From other people present, Nic got a standing ovation.
Jolly Good I say.
Julia said that they would put the award on their mantlepiece....If they had one!!!
As for the Daily Mail..
All publicity is good publicity...
Oh the stories I could tell about Mr B.

Well Done Nic. Enjoy

Regards to all. Ralphie

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:39 PM

And...
The reason that I was at Kings Cross was for the "Fake Awards"
A feeble excuse for a session, at which Tim Van Eyken was up (with several other guys) for "Rear of the Year" award...
The girls loved it..
Good job that Tim won, the prize was his award from the previous night, which someone had knicked at the after show bash.
It's weird watching grown women fondling buttocks...
Ah Well, all in a good cause-ly...Yes he was there too.

Ralph, Home again.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: NormanD
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:29 PM

Thank you, Diane, for making the double sacrifice of buying the Daily Mail and reading it.....and, of course, for summarising the article.

One question that the Daily Mail never considered: What would be the effect on house prices if the vinyl albums were to be released on CD?

And might there be a link to avian flu?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:30 PM

Avian 'flu is untweetable...

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 04:44 PM

Ralphie - the Alzheimer's is definitely setting in! James Fagan actually won the "Rear of the year" type award,with stiff opposition from Tim, Sam, Doug and.. damn, the Alzheimer's is catching! - I should know, I was sitting in the front row with a very good view of the proceedings (somebody had to do it!)! Tim actually won the "Fake"Award for pledging his morals for the year (don't ask)..... and Mr Causley didn't win a thing - whereas the Lifetime Achievement award was presented to Lauren as a representative of those who had had to live and/or work with him... LOL

A very good bash - thoroughly enjoyable - well done Sam, Joe and Lauren!!!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 05:25 PM

Nic got a great review on Radio 2 last weekend with Stuart Marconie imploring everyone to go out and get a copy of 'Penguin Eggs' as it was one of the greatest albums of all time.

I had never heard him play before I met him, not too long after his return to the world. I was with him at his first festival after the accident and it was amazing to see the respect and affection he garnered from every kind of audience. His reunion with Tony Rose was something else. It's been great to see the progress he's made over the intervening years.

LTS

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 05:39 PM

Penguin Eggs will be on my desert island. Little (aka Wee) Pot Stove might even be what I'd save if the waves claimed the other 7, because I'd think of Tony Hall and Bridget Danby, and Herga's heyday in the 70s and 80s...

Kitty

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 05:54 PM

Surreysinger - you missed me being awarded the Murky Prize after you left, for reasons that are still not clear.

James Fagan was a deserving recipient of Rear of the Year.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:00 PM

If anyone wants to fork out for a Nic Jones album, I would urge you to buy direct from Mollie Music... http://www.nicjones.net/hats.htm
The Jones family get a better deal that way!
They get mere pence from Topic sales!
Deal direct with the Jones via that link..... please.

Thank you - Cheers - HFA

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:06 PM

Ruthie - I thought the Murky prize was awarded before I left.... but obviously I've definitely got the Alzheimer's as well. I thought that the whole reasons for the Murky award was the fact that the reasons were not clear?? What was the citation.... and come to that what the hell was in the jar???

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:12 PM

Apparently not. Yes, that is the whole reason for the award...there was no citation. Tim suddenly said, "Joanie, I believe you've won the Murky Prize." It was quite surreal. The reasons for giving it to me were as opaque as the reasons for the award itself - largely due to the fact that I happened to be standing there, I think. The only thing that's certain is that I have agreed to bring it back next year so it can be passed on...

What, you think I've opened the jar? I'd have to be nuts...

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:15 PM

That's not the Bottled Fart that Les Barker won several years ago is it?

Should be about ripe by now...

LTS