Nic Jones In The Daily Mail

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:39 AM

You CANNOT be over-zealous in slagging off the Daily Mail........

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:25 AM

It was not 'a quote from the Daily Mail article' but, as ought to have been clear from the outset, a literal transcription of an answer given to a query. The Q&A were published in last Tuesday's edition, as noted. As already said, the information was not entirely accurate or complete but I did not edit it. For the purposes of this discussion, I simply reproduced it and, in a separate post, provided a link to Nic's website for those interested in seeking further information. I could have written several long paragraphs on Nic's playing style but this would have been irrelevant to the matter under discussion.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Stower
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 09:09 AM

Rusty Dobro: "In response to Ian Pittaway above - the info was submitted by a reader, not a DM 'journalist'."

I was referring to the post by countess richard, which gives what I took to be a long quote from the DM article, especially as the post ends "Henry Giggs, Newcastle Upon Tyne, ex Daily Mail, 6 February 2007".

Anyway, whether or not it's the DM article, it's still wrong!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:42 AM

Before we get get too over-zealous in our slagging off of the DM, let's remember that it did at least print the Nic story - more than can be said for the more 'acceptable' papers.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 05:15 AM

In response to Ian Pittaway above - the info was submitted by a reader, not a DM 'journalist'.

Those of us who have jobs with any kind of political angle, or have specialist knowledge of a particular subject, will long ago have learnt to recognise and despise the appalling misinformation put out on a daily basis by the DM; it is, I'm sure, stating the obvious to UK 'catters to say that virtually nothing in it is to be trusted, and a safe policy is to see what the 'Mail' says about anything at all and then take the opposite view. Trouble is, there are literally millions out there who take it as gospel - the letters page is frightening.

I need to lie down in a darkened room now.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Anne Lister
Date: 08 Feb 07 - 02:59 AM

I have a particular dislike for the Daily Mail after they ran some features some years back about my brother, who was supposedly running "guerilla training schools" because he was (sorry - still is) part of a very left-wing political group. There was a lot of totally untrue stuff published and as the Mail was my grandmother's paper of choice it led to quite a bit of family upset as well. These days I see it when I visit my parents, as my Mum likes the puzzles. It's not a paper I would ever buy, but if it encourages people to seek out Nic's music then that would be something to set against my grudges from the past.

I did, as mentioned in another thread, rate a comment in the Mail's sister paper the Mail on Sunday a few years ago when a travel writer spent time on the Greek island of Skyros, where I was working. The travel writer concerned was a very odd character, pretentious in the extreme, and her article was about as accurate as you might expect from someone who didn't participate in any activities apart from sitting in the bar.

Under these circumstances, if the article on Nic had even 50% accuracy it's doing better than my previous experience of journalism in the Mail!

Anne

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 04:42 PM

I merely transcribed the piece, I didn't edit, amend or add. Although incomplete and not entirely accurate, it's considerately better than some stuff I've seen in so-called specialist mags. The DM (sad to say) is bought by thousands, read by millions in public libraries, cafés and bars. Who knows how many (well not many but some) might read this section entirely by chance and go on to seek out Nic's music. Which has got to be welcomed. And whatever next? A team of investigative journos staked out in Harrogate, possibly? Followed by boxed sets of remastered material appearing in the racks of High Street record stores?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bainbo
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 04:22 PM

It's not so much the political slant of the paper - I'll happily read the Telegraph, or the Sunday Times. But I try to avoid this particular paper because of its agenda of actively stirring up hatred and division between different sections of the community.

It sells phenomenally well, though. I once remarked to a journalist friend that you had to admire it, because it knew it was excellent at knowing its market. She, quite rightly, rebuked me, saying you might as well as well admire arms manufacturers becuase they knew how to sell.

Ron, I've followed with interest your argument about a boycott. I don't think anyone was saying they'd boycott it - just that they found it distasteful to read. My dad used to take it, and if I was going round to the shop for him, what was I supposed to do? Deny him his paper, lecture him, and buy him the Guardian instead? I don't think so :-)

Oh, and back on topic, congratulations to Nic Jones in the Radio 2 Folk Awards.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Stower
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 04:21 PM

I know this was many posts ago, but I have just come across this thread and think information should be accurate. Daily Mail: "Instead he opted to grasp and pluck the strings of his guitar which led to the slapping down onto the fingerboard with no small force, a technique similar to that employed when plucking the lute." Err, no. In fact NOTHING like playing the lute. Play the lute like that and you turn an instrument of beauty into small-sounding, thin-sounding, unmelodic junk. You can't expect a Daily Mail journalist to know anything about anything that needs skill or finesse, like lute playing.

On the other hand, anything that gets Nic positively into the public eye has to be good - even if it is in a rag like the DM.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,Ten-Dollar Jack
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 04:01 PM

The idea that you shouldn't read something because of the political slant of the owners is amusing. Jeez, look at the darn article and forget about it.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Surreysinger
Date: 07 Feb 07 - 11:38 AM

Just reread that last post from me - I meant "are you sure it wasn't you that got the looks ...because of the jar". Realised that it could be read another way - completely not my intent!!!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 07:31 PM

"It got some odd looks on the train... "
LOL!
Are you sure it wasn't you that got the looks? Mind you, the recipient of the stuffed squirrel was suggesting that he thought a taxi might be preferable to taking it home on the bus!!!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:27 PM

The stuffed squirrel was the top trophy, clearly.

I fully expect it to ferment and explode, yes. At the moment it's on the bookcase in my sitting room.

It got some odd looks on the train...

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:24 PM

Are you sure it's not going to ferment and explode before next year then Ruthie And where are you going to store such a beautiful award - on the mantelpiece??

I have to say that I would far rather have had the stuffed squirrel with the camera - at least that's a talking point - what can you say about an evil looking jar of gunge?? Glad it's you and not me!!!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:17 PM

It's a brown, vile-looking liquid, Liz...

so possibly.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:16 PM

"His legend was secured by the release of Penguin Eggs in 1980, the decade's finest folk album...."

Is that the decade 1971 to 1980? or 1980 to 1989?

"Penguin Eggs will be on my desert island. Little (aka Wee) Pot Stove might even be what I'd save if the waves claimed the other 7...."

Have you heard the recording by Harry Robertson, who wrote the song? Re-released on CD a couple of years ago, fine piece of work, also has Ballina Whalers, which Jones recorded as The Humpback Whale.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:15 PM

That's not the Bottled Fart that Les Barker won several years ago is it?

Should be about ripe by now...

LTS

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:12 PM

Apparently not. Yes, that is the whole reason for the award...there was no citation. Tim suddenly said, "Joanie, I believe you've won the Murky Prize." It was quite surreal. The reasons for giving it to me were as opaque as the reasons for the award itself - largely due to the fact that I happened to be standing there, I think. The only thing that's certain is that I have agreed to bring it back next year so it can be passed on...

What, you think I've opened the jar? I'd have to be nuts...

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:06 PM

Ruthie - I thought the Murky prize was awarded before I left.... but obviously I've definitely got the Alzheimer's as well. I thought that the whole reasons for the Murky award was the fact that the reasons were not clear?? What was the citation.... and come to that what the hell was in the jar???

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 06:00 PM

If anyone wants to fork out for a Nic Jones album, I would urge you to buy direct from Mollie Music... http://www.nicjones.net/hats.htm
The Jones family get a better deal that way!
They get mere pence from Topic sales!
Deal direct with the Jones via that link..... please.

Thank you - Cheers - HFA

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 05:54 PM

Surreysinger - you missed me being awarded the Murky Prize after you left, for reasons that are still not clear.

James Fagan was a deserving recipient of Rear of the Year.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 05:39 PM

Penguin Eggs will be on my desert island. Little (aka Wee) Pot Stove might even be what I'd save if the waves claimed the other 7, because I'd think of Tony Hall and Bridget Danby, and Herga's heyday in the 70s and 80s...

Kitty

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 05:25 PM

Nic got a great review on Radio 2 last weekend with Stuart Marconie imploring everyone to go out and get a copy of 'Penguin Eggs' as it was one of the greatest albums of all time.

I had never heard him play before I met him, not too long after his return to the world. I was with him at his first festival after the accident and it was amazing to see the respect and affection he garnered from every kind of audience. His reunion with Tony Rose was something else. It's been great to see the progress he's made over the intervening years.

LTS

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Surreysinger
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 04:44 PM

Ralphie - the Alzheimer's is definitely setting in! James Fagan actually won the "Rear of the year" type award,with stiff opposition from Tim, Sam, Doug and.. damn, the Alzheimer's is catching! - I should know, I was sitting in the front row with a very good view of the proceedings (somebody had to do it!)! Tim actually won the "Fake"Award for pledging his morals for the year (don't ask)..... and Mr Causley didn't win a thing - whereas the Lifetime Achievement award was presented to Lauren as a representative of those who had had to live and/or work with him... LOL

A very good bash - thoroughly enjoyable - well done Sam, Joe and Lauren!!!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:30 PM

Avian 'flu is untweetable...

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: NormanD
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 02:29 PM

Thank you, Diane, for making the double sacrifice of buying the Daily Mail and reading it.....and, of course, for summarising the article.

One question that the Daily Mail never considered: What would be the effect on house prices if the vinyl albums were to be released on CD?

And might there be a link to avian flu?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:39 PM

And...
The reason that I was at Kings Cross was for the "Fake Awards"
A feeble excuse for a session, at which Tim Van Eyken was up (with several other guys) for "Rear of the Year" award...
The girls loved it..
Good job that Tim won, the prize was his award from the previous night, which someone had knicked at the after show bash.
It's weird watching grown women fondling buttocks...
Ah Well, all in a good cause-ly...Yes he was there too.

Ralph, Home again.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 01:28 PM

Sod the Daily Mail...
Quite independently, I was waiting to meet someone off a train at Kings Cross station at 11 o'clock this morning,...suddenly get a tap on the Shoulder...Nic and Julia heading back home to York after a swanky night in a Hotel.
Even got to hold his award (Oo-Er Missus....Carry On moment there)
He seemed very chipper. Apparently, Ms Rusby who presented the award was more nervous.
From other people present, Nic got a standing ovation.
Jolly Good I say.
Julia said that they would put the award on their mantlepiece....If they had one!!!
As for the Daily Mail..
All publicity is good publicity...
Oh the stories I could tell about Mr B.

Well Done Nic. Enjoy

Regards to all. Ralphie

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 12:19 PM

I can't argue with you there Mike!

I apologize to everyone if my comments were not taken in the spirit that I meant them. I did not mean to drift the thread, nor did I wish to take anything away from Nic. I was not the one who first brought up the comments about the Daily Mail, and I am now very sorry I asked what that was about.   Mudcat sure can stifle conversations and discussion. I had forgotten how defensive people get when questioned. Sorry.

I urge everyone to go to the Nic Jones website and pickup a couple of CD's.   He is unique and I think the recent releases can bring his music to a new generation. I do try to play as much of his music as I can on my radio show and I will do so again this Sunday. What happened to Nic is the real tragedy and I hope more people will learn what a treasure he is. For me, someone on the other side of the pond, I wish I had the opportunity to hear him when he was still performing on stage.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,mike. halifax uk
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

it's said 'don't argue with idiots.. observers may see the difference'...

I for one have all of Nic's Vinyl records. A giant in English folk music. He was and still is unique. Close this thread and get over all this 'newspaper' tosh.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:51 AM

Countess, I was not feeling bad about you or anyone else. I'm sorry if my comments made you and anyone else feel uncomfortable.   

I would have bought the newspaper as well. I just would not say that I am boycotting it. When you make a definitive stand, you can't make exceptions.

I think Fox News is destroying what little crediblity the media in our country. Do I watch them? No.   Will I say that I boycott them? No.   Do I buy the New York Post? No. Will I say that I will never buy a copy? No. There might be an article or an interview about someone of importance to the American folk community that I will want to read or watch.

There are exceptions. Making a good fight is one thing, but don't call it something that it isn't.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:43 AM

You all need to know that I have now ripped said copy of the Daily Mail into pieces and put it into my green Haringey recycling box. It has served its purpose and the newsagent has promised not to tell my neighbours that I ever bought it. Dave is right in saying that I didn't tell the full story above but that was deliberate. Here is not the place when something potentially positive is happening for Nic Jones: yesterday the Good Tradition Award for Game Set Match, today an unexpected boost from a tabloid. At long last his music is getting out there. The fact that I reluctantly parted with 45p to Associated Newspapers rather than to Mollie is not going to either retard or hasten the fall of capitalism and I already have everything Nic has recorded anyway. But if it will make Ron Olesko feel better about me, I put a cheque for 45p in the post to York now . . .

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:33 AM

Dave, I do not think I missed the point. I know the story of Nic Jones, Bulmer, etc.   I am not disagreeing at all that the story in the Mail is a good thing.

What appears to be making people uncomfortable is the fact that people make exceptions to what they thought were their principles. Others brought up the Daily Mail before I questioned the issue. You can't stand on principle and then make an exception when it suits your purpose. Maybe it a cultural thing.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: cptsnapper
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:33 AM

So could we have a list of the papers which we should read & the people that we should listen to?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Folkiedave
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:29 AM

Ron, I have learnt to respect you and your opinions over the years - you are almost always right.

Sadly I do think you have missed the point. It is a culture gap I suspect.

Because of his immense talent and because of the tragic way people are no longer able to share it live - Nic is loved by everyone. He was also badly treated by a record company who have his music and spent a long time not releasing it. Diane did not give the full story up there. But search for Bulmer or celtic music in Mudcat for a fuller version of the story.

I would never buy the Mail, nor would I buy it so I could post something on here - like Diane has done - but I am now happy to read it.....

And I have done my share of picket lines - mine and other peoples.
We once had a brilliant strike with fantastic organisation - and amazing publicity lined up.

They released Mandela to take the limelight off us..........There is no limit to the extent the capitalist class will go....

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:22 AM

Yeah, I'm a "nutter". Wonderfully witty observation.

I am very glad that Nic is getting recognition. I think the Topic CD that was release late last year was superb - one of my favorites of the year. Put your "45p" towards buying a copy of that! Support Nic.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,Guest - Icarus Allsorts
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:19 AM

That's the downside of sites like this - some nutter completely misses the point, goes off at a tangent saddled on his hobby horse.
Bugger the 45p, three cheers for Nic!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:11 AM

... and if this thread is "about Nic", then why where the original comments about the Daily Mail added?   If you open up the conversation to sidebars, you can't suddenly stop them.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 11:09 AM

I agree, I am glad that ANY publicity gets shone upon the world of folk music.

Bonnie, say what you will about ignoring the adverts, but subliminally you cannot avoid them. It doesn't matter if they know or not, the idea is that you know. "Going into the store" does not necessarily mean that you buy something. It shows you crossed a picket line. As you said, the people on the line are not going to know if you bought something or not. It is your decision. We can justify our actions to soothe our conscious, the spin doctors do that daily.

My point is that you can't call it a boycott if you make exceptions.   There is nothing wrong with making exceptions as long as you understand what you are doing.

I'm not a fan of boycotts, although I understand and respect them. They can be very hypocritcal.   I remember a famous story that Dave Van Ronk complained to Oscar Brand about Oscar playing Burl Ives on his radio program.   Van Ronk was upset because Ives stance during the HUAC hearings and felt that his music should not be heard on the radio. Brand replied "Dave, we on the "left" do not blacklist". Point well taken.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:57 AM

Ron, the Mail has supported every right wing shit from Benito Mussolini to the present day. they are not nice people.

however such is the parlous state of the folk music revival in England, that we look for chinks of light wherever they come from.

I wonder how far back you have to go to see an article before that one, in a popular English newspaper about a folk artist.

One or two obituaries maybe.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:54 AM

I cross-posted with Diane -

YES, this is about NIC

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:52 AM

"Going into the store" means you BUY something. They're not getting any money if someone reads this story without paying for it. I suppose it comes down to the semantics of the word "boycott", which I am quite happy not to use (and didn't). I think the main thrust of not buying this paper is that it withholds financial support - they're not going to know or benefit from what a non-customer happens to see (and you can always ignore the adverts).

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:51 AM

Ron Olesko, I would quote from or even, if pushed, buy The Times if by doing so it served the purpose that my buying the DM did today. Yes, I'd even hand one squid over to Rupy. And I was fired from Wapping then picketed outside. This is about Nic Jones, not despised media moguls.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:45 AM

In normal circumstances I would obviously not support the Daily Mail in any way. Today I bought it in order to let people here see what had appeared in a highly unusual source where it may well be read by many thousands who might otherwise never have heard about Nic Jones.

Thus I would prefer to view the contribution of 45p I have made reluctantly to Associated Newspapers rather as a very small one towards publicising the work of a musician who has been long deprived of income because of the limited availability of his work.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:43 AM

If you do not cross a picket line, that doesn't mean you let someone else go into the store for you.   If you boycott grapes to protest the treatment of migrant workers, you do not pick up a handful at the buffet table.

That is exactly what you do when you read a paper that you supposedly boycott.   When you read the paper, you are seeing the advertisements and getting the information that the editors wish you to see. Whether it is on your dime or someone else, the effect is the same.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:42 AM

Oh lads, please!! How about just calling it

getting-the-contents-without-paying-for-it-so-THERE ??

Like redsnapper, I'm just glad to see some decent PR about Nic that keeps his name in the public eye without resorting to the usual gossip or one-sided rubbish

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:37 AM

Thats not a boycott then.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:32 AM

For me boycotting a paper doesn't mean I might not read it, just that I avoid buying it.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:25 AM

hear hear cr
chris

Subject: RE: Nic Jones In The Daily Mail
From: redsnapper
Date: 06 Feb 07 - 10:11 AM

Appalling right-wing gutter-rag though The Mail may be... it's at least good to see something, however incomplete, about Nic in the press. Thanks to CR for transcribing!

RS