BS: Whine Fest

Subject: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 10:25 PM

My husband and I took in an 11 year old little girl last April. She had been spending summers with us as part of an inner city program designed to allow children the chance to experience country living. Last spring, her mother called and asked if she could send her daughter to us to live here. Without hesitation, we said yes. Now, as we have known for a few months, Veronica (the little one) will be leaving us tomorrow to spend a month with her mother. There's a logical part of me that says well of course...this is as it should be....they want to be together for the holidays. Then there's the rest of me that is heartbroken that she won't be here to celebrate with us. We get to have her for the hum-drum daily life but not the celebrations. *POUT*

Veronica is all tucked in bed now after a wonderful day of just playing together and I just want to say that this SUCKS. I can't stand the thought of sending Veronica off with her mother..the woman who can't be bothered to raise her, write her a letter or even to call her once a month. She didn't even call on Thanksgiving.

We do not have full custody of Veronica so we are pretty much stuck...we have to do what her mother wishes...try not to rock the boat too much and still maintain our sanity and hearts. I said it once and I'll say it again..THIS JUST SUCKS!!!!!   _()&)(*^*&^$%$@%#$^)*^(*&%*&^$%^#^$#

Welcome to my whine fest.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 10:30 PM

Whining is fine but Michelle, you are a very, very lucky person. -guest

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: mg
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 10:34 PM

It sounds like you have lots of room in your hearts. How about another little girl who might need you on a more regular basis. As long as Michelle is not being abused or neglected, and here's hoping, spending time with her mother is a positive thing, and spending time with you is positive. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: Amos
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 11:00 PM

Sounds like a case for custody might be made, although IANAL. It might be a hassle, and it might be well worth the outcome, depending on how Veronica sees it.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: Mudlark
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 03:19 AM

Don't know how you stand it. It must be so hard to hand her over, even from just a selfish viewpoint. If done right, fostering is bound to be heartbreaking, even in the best circs....which is what makes it such a heroic and wonderful act. Thanks for being there for Veronica in the ho-hum times...maybe you need to institute your own private "holidays," so you all could celebrate together as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 04:26 AM

Ten years and over thirty kids..........Foster Parents.........Doesn't get easier. I have tales and tales. You hope you have made some difference and become depressed when you see that in many cases any difference is so small as to be almost non-existent. But you hold onto that and keep going. eventually most of us burn out while becoming calloused to a point we never thought possible.

You have to take those small differences and hope and believe they were at least something. We stopped three and a half years ago for a variety of reasons, basically burnt out. We get visits from some and sometimes are encouraged but most often we are depressed. On the other hand, they do come back to us and look at the time here and at us as something they hold close......and that's nice. But still.............

And then.............One of our boys, was with us for 4 years and kept visiting for another 3 or so afterwards.....We hadn't heard from him in almost three years and feared the worst.   A month ago he knocks on the door. He's got this nice girl with him who iturns out to be his wife and a 6 month old baby who is happy and beautiful! He has a good job that he's been working for two years, an almost new car, a nice apartment and they are looking at houses. When they left, Karen and I cried awhile.......happy tears.

Sometimes it works.

Get tough.....Hang in.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 08:06 AM

Morning Everybody,

Thanks for the words of encouragement.

To Guest....yes, we realize that we are very, VERY lucky people....for a huge variety of reasons and not just Veronica. We are, indeed, extremely thankful. Concerning Veronica.....YES it is hard to let her go....so yeah, I *AM* going to whine about it. My head knows it is logical and makes sense but there's a lump in my throat, butterflies in my stomach and my heart is overwhelmed with sadness......if you could convince the rest of my body to join what my head is thinking....then go for it.....I'm not doing such a hot job of it.

Veronica really isn't a foster child....she's a little girl who started coming to us through the Fresh Air Fund Program. This program lines up inner city kids from New York who would never have the opportunity to travel or get out of the city to spend the summer with families who live in the country. An awesome program...we've had 5 kids over the years....some children return year after year. When Veronica came here for the first time, she was only 6 years old. She stayed for a few weeks and then returned to NYC. The next year she stayed longer...etc. That's the way the program works. Each summer when the kids leave, I spend some time trying to readjust to the quietness of the house and it's always hard. This year though, Veronica's mom called me at work and asked if I would take Veronica after Easter. I said sure. Then it was would I take her right before Easter....yep, that was fine too. Then it was, could you pick her up next weekend? ABSOLUTELY. Veronica's mother's reason for wanting Veronica to move out (while an older brother and younger sister are still living with Mom at home) was that Veronica wasn't doing well in school and she thought she had a chance to make a better life here. Sounds very noble and we thought highly of her. Three days ago, we were under the impression that Veronica would be gone for 2 weeks.....missing a day or two of school. I called her mom to confirm details of this trip and her mother said, "OH THANK GOD YOU CALLED!" She now wants Veronica to stay until almost the end of January....missing over 2 full weeks of school. We told her that and how she is doing poorly in one of her core subjects. Her mother's response...she laughed and told Veronica to do her work. Gee....what concern, eh? She calls about once a month.....I used to think it was financial hardship was the reason for that...but SHE HAS A CELL PHONE with UNLIMITED NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS!!!!!!!! She can call for FREE EVERYDAY!!!!!!!!!!!! When she sends things in the mail like health records....there is NEVER a note or a letter...and never anything for Veronica. There is no financial support here (no stipend or clothing allowance as many foster care programs allow....no insurance....we added her on our family insurance)....the apathy of this woman just kills me. She doesn't care about her all year long (I'm sure she does care...but we really have no way of seeing it) and now she wants to play Mommy over the holidays. Nice.

My one and only concilation (spelled wrong, I know) is that Veronica will be coming back..at least that's what her mother tells us. Anyway...I'm just blowing off steam. It really does help me to hear about other people who have cared for children who aren't there own and how they have dealt with it.

And Spaw...you have my admiration. Thanks for sharing with me.

Okay..time to get the little one up and ready to go.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: artbrooks
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 08:39 AM

Maybe put up a Valentines Day tree and exchange love gifts? Yeah, its silly.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 09:15 AM

Michelle, you have my great respect and yes, you go ahead and whine! Your capacity for love shines through your posts. Veronica is a lucky little girl.
I have a colleague who actually went through the process of trying to get custody of a child in a similar situation to yours, and the child's family was willing up to a point- until it came to signing on the dotted line. They just couldn't do it. They couldn't parent, either, but they wanted to think they could. Sad conclusion all around.
You just keep loving Veronica from a distance, and call her whenever you can, write to her, maybe even visit if you can manage it. Maybe your modeling of another way to "parent" will drop some hints to Veronica's mom- she may never have had a decent role model herself. And even if it doesn't sink into mom's head, it can't help but be good for the little girl.

Blessings on all of you-
Allison

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 11:48 AM

Lily,
Veronica is so lucky to have you. It must be so hard for her to have a mother who doesn't want her around. And so reassuring to have you caring for her, giving her stability and love. I admire your courage. And feel free to whine and to worry.
I will never understand why people have children they either can't or won't care for.
Mary, former foster mother.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 12:05 PM

I just want to say how much I admire you for what you're doing for this child; your open-heartedness & unselfish kindness is certainly making a difference in her life. As for "whining", it's completely understandable that you feel wretched at being parted from her at the holidays, but rest assured that those "ho-hum" times of the year count for a lot more in the big picture than a few special days.

Bless you,

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 12:16 PM

Michelle,

Since we know one another IRL, I will ask you to recall some of our conversations about my kids and step-kids, when Vee was still a summer visitor in your life.

What you are experiencing now, it's not too different from the experience of custodial parents re: required visitation, or step-parents.

What we have learned is that the main thing to work on during the child's absence is one's own issues about boundaries, and issues about however one was parented, so that when the child returns, one can get back to focusing on what is best for the child, whether it feels good to oneself or not. The grief and worry, one offers up in whatever way one finds useful, for one's own continuing development.

Otherwise one begins to function according to what one feels one needs for oneself, even though one starts out knowing that parenting is never about that. (If only intention could be as reliable as an Expedia map.) But there is a slippery slope, especially in parenting a child who is legally and morally not your own, where intention becomes blurred with intolerable discomfort, and the absences provide a powerful reminder of how to work on that side of things. In the time of absence you will experience fresh views of it all that you could not otherwise see at all, including deep truths about your relationship with the child; it helps to welcome the reflection, if not the cause of it.

The BEST thing about these visitation times is that the more they happen, the less the child will need to make up for lost time, and all the hunger for bonding, with the absent parent later. We sowed that when the kids were preteens and reaped it as they got older and more rebellious (I mean "independent"!).

Knowing the absent parent, as they really are, makes for a much stronger child, later. One of ours has chosen, for practial as well as developmental reasons, to live in her mother's home this last year or so. She has learned everything she wished she had known and could not know without the extended, day in/day out time together. She's had what she calls "enough," and is smart enough to know the difference between the healthier model she had from us, and the co-dependent "friendship" her mother seems to "need."

Kids tend to run FROM need, and run TO love, when both options are available.


Another hard phase lies before you, and if you think it is hard now, it is much harder than this one. And that is, no matter how unhealthy the absent parents or the relationships with them, kids tend to need to explore that side of themselves (be it, act it out, try it on), as they leave the nest and make their own. You can do everything for them, and then see them go off in exatly the "wrong" direction you thought you had saved them from(!), seeming to be "just like" the so-and-so whose mess you've been tending to for years!

This will bother you less if you work on the boundary thing now. Cuz really it is just a phase, and they move through it quickly when we don't freak out, and then they get back to being the wonderful person YOU raised.

I feel for ya, but ya gotta learn all this on your own, and I know you know that.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: Peace
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 02:17 PM

"Who saves a life, it is as if he saved a whole world."

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 03:48 PM

They also serve who only stand and wait.
                                                    —Milton

One thing that you have given to Veronica that is invaluable. If things ever get tough for her, she knows she has someplace she can go.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 04:29 PM

Okay....IT's time for a funny story!!!

Kids doing visitations return to you with issues and attitudes and learning how to recognize and work through this is much discussed and generally a part of most foster training classes (FP's are required some number of hours of training every year, depending on where you are). One of the funniest moments I recall happened in a class dealing with just this subject. The Trainer was a good friend and she is really excellent at getting everyone involved.

After hearing from most of us on some of the problems we had had in the past, she flopped over a new sheet of posterpaper and asked, "Okay.....When your kids come back from visits, what do they have?"   There was a silence as no one seemed to want to answer first. After a pause of about 15 seconds or so, a woman in the back spoke up......."Lice?"

The entire room fell apart laughing.

***************

Like Sins, I don't presume to know why people have children they don't want. As an adoptive parent, I am blessed with two of them so there can be an upside. Read Allison's post again and prepare just in case. Custody battles are difficult on everyone, including the children. In your situation it's too easy to get hopes up, but you just keep whining here huh? We do understand.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 04:57 PM

Well, Veronica is now on the bus with her mother. *Shaking my head* Her mother was more interested in the fact that Veronica's feet has outgrown the boots she got her for Christmas than hugging her hello. It is simply beyond me.

As for Christmas, we will be celebrating with presents and such at the end of January with our entire family. We decided a while back that we want her to experience how we celebrate...TOGETHER. So...the tree and all the Christmasy things will remain up until then.....we wouldn't have it any other way. :)

I know she will be just fine. I know we will be just fine as well.

Thanks again everybody.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:02 PM

Okay....my Little One hasn't returned yet....POUT. Her arrival is looming ever closer and I am excited about her return!

The Christmas tree is still up and the animals haven't mangled the presents....YET...LOL.

I have rearranged Veronica's room to accomodate some new furniture and a larger bed. She's been wanting both the bed (our old bed...we got a new one over the holidays) and the new (really not so new as it was mine as a little girl) furniture as there is a desk and dresser that she is very fond of. I can't wait for her to see it!!!!!

We have also scheduled in a family day trip.

Awww heck....I just can't wait to see that little smile when she hops off the bus!!!!!!!!!!   

I MISS MY VERONICA!!!!!!!!! I MISS HER!!! I MISS HER!!!!   I MISS HER!!!!

*smile* It won't be much longer now....................

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 10:11 PM

I recieved a phone call last week from Veronica's mother. She wants Veronica to come back and live with her on a full time basis. Why? She said, "Veronica's punishment is over. She knows that if she is bad I will send her away again."

WHAT?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

This is the same woman who has called her daughter only 3 times in the last EIGHT MONTHS!!! She did not call Veronica on her birthday or send her a card or anything....nor did she do it the day after or the week after. This is the same woman who "FORGOT" to pick up her daughter at the bus station for a SCHEDULED summer visit. The very same woman who has not written to her daughter in EIGHTEEN MONTHS!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry but you DO NOT send your child away for 18 months for misbehaving (not following directions, talking back...nothing major)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Then her mother changed her mind and said she wanted Veronica to come visit for a week. I knew then that we wouldn't ever be seeing Veronica again. I had a bad feeling and everyone was trying to be positive and said she'd be back...but it's official....Veronica is gone and will not be returning. I am so fucking sad that I don't know what to do with myself. Technically, there is nothing I can do because she is not my child nor do I have custody of her. All I can do is hope that Veronica experienced what family love is all about while she was here...and that she will never ever forget what it feels like to be loved and valued.   :(

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 28 Aug 04 - 10:21 PM

Michelle,
I am so sorry. But I do believe she will be back. Unfortunately, she will come back hurt and angry. When she does, sue for custody. Veronica deserves a stable home. And time is running out for the good you do to make a difference.
Stay strong,
SINS

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 12:58 AM

Hi Michelle,

I hope you can stick in there as Veronica will definately need you. For a mother to send a child away as punishement is a crime in my opinion, both cruel and unjust.

My father was treated in much the same way by my grandmother, something my brothers and I only found out about in the last few years. Unfortunately for him there was nowhere to go but a string of boarding schools and foster homes and then entry into the navy as a cadet at 13.

As a result he grew up as a rather remote sort of person and only in the last years has he been a more open and trusting person with immediate family.

Hopefully you will be able to make a difference to this young lass and prevent her from having more heartache than she has already.

Sadly if her mother has thrown her out before it will easily happen again. Good luck to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: KT
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 01:33 AM

Michelle,
My heart breaks for all of you. Hang in there and hold fast to the knowledge that Veronica KNOWS she is loved by you. That will see her through a lot. Things may well change again. You will all be in my thoughts and prayers.

KT

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 01:38 AM

Michelle, PM or email Spaw....Catspaw49. I have his e mail if you need it. He's been a foster parent foever and knows what you are going through.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: jacqui.c
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 04:39 AM

Michelle

My heart goes out to you - it must be so difficult to be in your situation.

Veronica will never forget your love and care for her and I too think she will be back, but she may lay some of the blame on you for letting her go - children that age don't see the practicalities, only knowing the feeling of not being wanted.

I can't understand how a mother can behave in such a way - this is just total selfishness and selfcentredness. Parenting is the most important thing that we do in our lifetimes and it seems that so many parents are so ill equipped for the role. It's a shame that parents don't have to take an exam to show they can do the job properly before being let loose on such an important mission!

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 09:17 AM

Michelle,

I'm so sorry for your loss. I know the ground you are walking on better than you can probably realize. It's bitter ground now matter how you look at it. I'm writing from that exeprience as well as from being involved in a lot of others' situations from my husband's work.

I hope that Veronica will be able to call you, and I hope you will continue the connection from your end. If you let just a little time pass and then write to her, I would bet her mother will give her the letter. You can do so much to lift her up. The tough part, as I indicated in a post above, will be the boundary issues inherent in any stepchild or foster-child situation. These not only remain but are now more important than ever, and I hope you will get some support so that you can continue to be a strong, loving influence in Veronica's life.

Please do not ever forget that you sent back a young lady better equipped to handle whatever will come her way, in her home and in her environment. She has far more power in that situation than it probably feels like. That one is a survivor, and her chances are better now than they ever were before you knew her. I know that right now all you can focus on is the hurt, and your concerns for her wellbeing, and they are valid concerns. But she WILL keep all she gained during her time with you, not only what you gave her but from ALL the friends she made. And she will continue to do what I think she's always done well-- make lemonade from lemons.

Again, I'm so sorry for your loss. She (and her two families) will be in our prayers.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 06:46 PM

I just want to thank you for the posts. I feel lost and numb. My husband and I spent the day outside in the country...walking and talking. I really appreciate all the good thoughts and prayers.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Aug 04 - 07:22 PM

We'll keep 'em coming. Gosh, it's gotta hurt so much. Grieve it strong and loud-- it will go faster and get balled up less with other stuff in there.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: mg
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 02:21 AM

The mother is engaging in emotional abuse and this should be put in writing, perhaps notarized, to the authorities. Granted, they have such awful situations to deal with that they might not respond, but you need a paper trail. I hope you are keeping a journal or something. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: bet
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 02:33 AM

Michelle,
I have no words to exprees my sadness for this child and you. How very unfair to you both. There are some great postings above and should be reread over and over. I hope they help. My thoughts are with you. bet

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:47 AM

I have kept a journal of many of the things that have happened with Veronica and her mother. It is a very sad log of a little girl who has been repeatedly let down and faced with broken promises. It is also a record of her health and how her basic shots were not up to date, how incredibly BAD her vision was when she came here and yet had NEVER been to an eye Dr. It is a record of Veronica's behavior when she returned from previous visits with her mother, how she has come back with bruises from her older brother and bite marks (on her stomach....that have left scars)from her younger sister (2 years younger). What I have is a record that just breaks my heart. I know that Veronica is not being beaten physically but that poor child has been let down, shoved away and disappointed until it just makes me cry. She doesn't understand why she was sent away while her brother and sister were allowed to remain home. She doesn't understand why "Mommy" doesn't call. She makes excuses for each let down as a means to protect her poor little heart.

That day when Veronica's mother called to say that she wanted Veronica to live with her now because the punishment was over, I told her mother that Veronica was doing very well here. She is on the honor roll at school (which she never had been and in addition, her behavior marks were now all satisfactory...which were shaky before), that she had friends here and people who LOVE her...and that she was HAPPY. Her mother said that she didn't think Veronica was happy here (AS IF SHE WOULD FREAKING KNOW ANYTHING SINCE SHE NEVER TAKES THE TIME TO CALL HER CHILD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). She said she would ask Veronica where she wanted to live. That's all well and good, but Veronica just turned 12 and that is an AWFUL place to put a child in. Should she tell her mother that she wants to stay where she is loved and taken care of or should she tell her that she wants to live with her? Veronica took the day to think about it and I did my best not to prod her in any one direction (although I REALLY REALLY wanted to). She called her mother that night and told her that she wanted to live here, that she wanted to go to school here and have more contact with her mother on the phone and more visits with her (once every other month instead of once every 6-8 months). I guess I shouldn't be surprised even a little tiny bit that her mother went ahead and did what SHE wanted instead of what Veronica wanted. If she wasn't going to allow Veronica to have a say in the matter, why bother asking her and putting her in such a bad position. We told Veronica that no matter what she decided, someone was going to be sad. We also told her that whatever her decision was, we would understand and love her no matter what. It's the best I could do.

Her mother called on August 11th and I have been physically sick with this since then. I had a VERY bad feeling and I suppose I knew deep down that Veronica would end up at her mothers, especially after seeing her. It makes sense (to my head anyway) that Veronica has been deprived of affection for so very long by her birth family that any smidgen of attention from them would bring almost overwhelming joy for her. She craves her mom's love and I know that is completely normal. I worry about what will happen when Mom gets tired of dealing with her this time. We also are aware that Veronica has been sent away before. She was sent to Santo Domingo to live when she was very young, she was living with her Godparents in NY for a period of time shortly before she came to live with us. Her mother moved her from the Godparents because they said something that was not complimentary towards Veronica's mother (GO FIGURE!).

I have heard countless tales about how the mother doesn't get home until after 8:30pm leaving all three kids alone (in the projects of Brooklyn...the oldest child being 14 and abusive), how they all fend for themselves when it comes to meals and how the mother usually is out of the house before the kids even get up for school. There is SO much more but you get the general idea.

Today Veronica would have started her very first day of 7th Grade in the Middle School. This would have been a new building for her and she was incredibly excited about moving to a new building and having a locker. I wonder where she is, what she is doing and if she wishes she were here.

My house is incredibly quiet and there's an empty spot that lingers. I haven't cried yet this morning...

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 11:19 AM

I feel for you and Veronica. It is such a sad story. I would also be davastated. It doesn't help a lot now I know, but in the worst case (for you and Veronica) you'll know you have given her many months of love, affection and security.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 01:06 PM

What sort of formal arrangement was made for Veronica to live with you in the first place? Was it a foster care arrangement? Was there a case worker monitoring Veronica's care, and is there a caseworker monitoring Veronica's care now?

If there is, you should contact them and make them aware of the changes that have been made--if not, or if you don't know, contact the people you work with at the Fresh Air Fund and let them know what is going on--they may be able to intervene on Veronica's behalf, or at least to steer you to an advocate of some sort that can--

Also, contact counselors at the middle school and tell them about what has happened, and about your concerns--they may be able to advocate or find an advocate for Veronica, if even half of what you say is true, she needs one--

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 05:19 PM

LF,

Before following anyone's well-meant advice, consult a lawyer who's been around the block in family law. I would think that documenting things now would cast you in the light of a sore loser with an agenda, and the result may be V ending up in foster care where you can't have any contact at all. Please take time to grieve, think, consult, and consider long-term ramifications before you take action. There are a lot of angles to this....

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:05 PM

I'm not doing anything now except trying to get through my days. I am not documenting now per say....I HAVE documented quite a bit as she was here...part of a daily calendar of sorts. I have receipts, notes, any correspondance and the things as noted above.

I will be taking some action but it will be when I know that I can discuss these things without choking up. Right now, I cannot do that.

I'm too close and too hurt right now....let's not forget anger.....I'm feeling loads of that as well. I know that can be productive but at the moment, I'm afraid it would be more of a destructive nature.

I really appreciate all the thoughts, prayers, kind words and emails that I have recieved....I don't feel so alone with this...thank you all so very much.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:37 PM

Michelle, what you have done and continue to do is admirable and I wish you, your partner, and Veronica all the best in such a sad situation. Did you have something in writing which authorised you to have her treated, medically , if need be, and appointing you to be her temp. guardian as far as school was concerned? I would think that would count for something, legally.

Also, are you allowed to send her cards, letters, or call her once in awhile? After things calm down a little?

It sounds as though she knows this, but it wouldn't hurt to affirm for her that she has a safe haven to come to if she just cannot take being at her mother's and decides to take things into her own hands by running away. She's getting close to that age where kids do such things when desperate.

This is one of those times when Mudcat really shines; when we can share a sorrow and in doing so, perhaps lessen it, even if it be but a little while.

I will include you and Veronica in my thanks givings and *see* the situation wokring out for the highest good of all concerned.

{{{{{{{{Michelle}}}}}}}}}

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 07:34 PM

Any news, Lily? Has Veronica been allowed to contact you? She and you are in my prayers.
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 07:43 PM

Yup, we're still thinking of you and V.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 07:45 PM

Thanks. We received a call from someone in NY...not sure if it was Veronica or her Mom as they didn't leave a message. I will be writing to Veronica this week.

This is hard. Really hard.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 07:49 PM

Parenting IS hard. We get the grief in different ways, but I would bet all of us raising kids have had our hearts broken, and I think as humans we just have to go through it in one form or another. It's a club that's earned any wisdom, the hard way. We don't always tell how we've learned stuff, but those gray hairs don't just pop up with no reason. One thing you can do now is dedicate this grief to being a better parent for the future. Aim it in that direction, so to speak.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 07:58 PM

Quite frankly, I am a mess. I have been physically sick for at least a month, can't sleep much, can't concentrate on much of anything (and being that this is week #2 of university..this is a problem), I can't eat...lost 12 pounds THIS week, I cry every f*cking morning, my house is a disaster and I don't care....the only peace I have found is in riding around the woods for hours...I am not suicidal but I am pretty fucking unhappy.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 08:04 PM

Not my business, but I've also lost a daughter. Please seek counselling if you can -- it was the only thing that kept me from ending up in a hospital. My very, very best wishes for you, and my heart is with you.

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 08:05 PM

Sorry....venting...

And Peedeecee (((((((((Thank you and hugs))))))))))))))

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 08:08 PM

Too long, Lily. Get some help. See your family doctor and then a therapist if necessary. The last thing Veronica needs is for you to fall apart especially if she is headed back to you. Stay strong.

A little trick I play on myself when the world falls apart - pretend it is a year from now and this crisis is not only over but settled to my satisfaction. A form of meditation I guess. "What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve."

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 08:19 PM

I've been to the Dr. Must be I look a mess because the receptionist came out and gave me a hug when I walked in the door. Nice people...trying to help....it takes time though...and I am impatient and so tired of being sick and tired and sad. I keep telling myself that this too shall pass....it has to.

I have a little sign hanging up in my bathroom beside the mirror. As I dry my hair in the morning, I read it outloud to myself.....at least 3 times...and try to keep it all in my mind and in perspective.

It says: Good Morning. This is God. I will be handling all your problems today. I will not need your help. So go enjoy your day.

*big Sigh*   It comes in waves...sometimes tolerable....many times, it just isn't.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:15 PM

These are MY gray hairs talking:

Yup, that's how it goes. It DOES pass but this is how it passes.

You get to exercise some choice in how you do it though-- the cleanest way to grieve is by looking at the happiness. Put her happiest picture in front of you-- the Christmas card family-style would be a good approach-- and stick the good memories deep in your heart like a knife to lance the festering parts of the wound.

Arrange a chance to fall asleep after the spate of tears, then go for a walk after the nap, and do this cycle again, and again, and again.

MAKE yourself balance the crying time with time spent with all your attention on something positive in present time so your brain chemistry has time to recover in between physiologically.

Take a lot of extra vitamin C & B because the tears will flush them out. Pee a lot. Drink a lot of water. Use artificial tears. Watch your blood sugar-- this is stress afecting it.

NONE of this will make it feel any better, but it will help you manage it and survive it and get through it faster and with more positive lessons learned for later.

I swear to God. This is how it is done. And-- call your pastor, OK, he's gotten some parenting gray hairs, too, and can help in areas we can't.

Another good person to ask about grieving is Mudcatter Animaterra.

Hang in there, you can DO this.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:47 PM

Thanks again........lots of good thoughts here and I am SO wanting to take it all in and use it.

Food...lots of water? Gross..it's not gonna stay.
Blood sugars? Running 377 and up.....no food going in...just the body absolutely freaked out...I am monitoring this and taking the fast acting insulin only as I can't predict for the long term right now.

As far as Veronica's picture.....I have put away all but 2 photos of her. I just can't look at her right now....makes me cry, makes me angry, frustrated and just generally wipes me out. I have cleaned out all the dressers in her bedroom. Her toys are all in her room to be packed up on a day when I can sit and cry. My friend offered to come help me sort it all out and I will take her up on it. For now, all Veronica's belongings are going into storage because I just can't have it here. I have ripped up 2 photos of her mother.

Calling my pastor....well, I wrote to him and he wrote back. I'd talk to him if I had any clue as to what to say..but I just don't. As can be clearly seen, I am all over the place and yet feel like I am in hiding.

Given my choice in the matter, I'd stay home, take care of my husband, animals and house and the rest of the world could take a flying leap.

Thanks for all the thoughts, advice and understanding. I'm working on it....

My plan is to send out a card to Veronica tomorrow telling her that we have been thinking of her and hoped her first day of 7th grade went well. I am also going to send her a photo of the sonogram of my friend (who is having twins) as Veronica was SO excited about the new baby to come....she left before we knew it was twins....I'm sure that will bring about that sweet smile.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: mg
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 09:58 PM

Obviously you have a very strong maternal nature. Are you or can you get certified as a foster parent? It might help if Veronica becomes available, and God knows there are numerous other children who need help... mg

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 10:04 PM

OK.

1. You're doing it right.

2. Your pastor knows what to say so he'll call YOU, tomorrow, or you could call him and just weep, and he'd know what to do from there.

3. Your plan what to write her is PERFECT.

4. Re-read #1.


You can DO this. Keep those photos handy and look at them when you can.

It's OK to be a mess. I mean I know it hurts like a son of a bitch and is scary but it is necessary if we are to remain human beans.

And.... V is probably not as miserable as you are, because kids really are so resilient-- so don't be worrying about her TOO much.

Go back to #1 again.

I'm sending you a CD full of pictures via Bonnie or Greg so you can get some visual inputs away from the hurt, for staring time.

NOW-- the sugar--

Isn't that a pretty high number? The sugar is no doubt not helping, so I would hope your doc is giving you correct management help. If it ain't under control-- and ain't getting under control-- maybe you need to be in hospital.

What does Pete say about that?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: LilyFestre
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 10:22 PM

Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you.

I don't like to cry in front of anyone....maybe why I haven't been to talk to my pastor....

Blood sugars are indeed running high due to stress, illness, etc. Hospital? NO NO NO

What does Pete say? He says, I love you. Can I do anything to help? Are you going to eat something TODAY? He's a good egg who is putting up with me and reassuring me that everything is going to be okay. I have not told him about all (but he does know about some)the high glucose levels...he's worried enough.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 10:34 PM

Lord, I could be reading about myself. You call your thread a "whine fest," you apologize for normal human behaviour (falling apart from grief is normal human behaviour); you thank people too much -- hey, be human, let go and howl and stop trying to be perfect and apologizing when you think you aren't. I assume Pete is your husband -- let him hold you and worry about you, and share your blood sugar info with him (he's entitled) and stop trying to Cope and Take it in Your Stride and Deal with it in a Mature, Responsible Fashion.

Be weak -- all strong people are allowed and entitled to be weak and to be taken care of. It's not permanent. Lean, cling, rely.

If you can take sick time from work, I think you should. You are sick with grief.

(Sorry for jumping in like this, but I really recognized myself in your posts.)

Subject: RE: BS: Whine Fest
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Sep 04 - 10:58 PM

Michelle, peedeecee is right.

Greg will call you in the next 48 hours-- is tied up in the AM already and the day goes to hell from there.

Please, talk to Pete about the sugars. You're supposed to let him care for you-- honest, it's in the Bible. He'll worry more if you do NOT tell him. Blame it on me. :~)

Check PM for a new sign.

You can DO this. We all think so!

~Susan