BS: Some Coyote Information

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: maeve
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 08:29 AM

More discussion on Maine island deer overpopulation, here: http://www.workingwaterfront.com/articles/Deer-islands-and-people/9536/

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: kendall
Date: 27 Jul 12 - 07:46 AM

Here's an example of what happens when man screws with nature.
The Island of Isle Au Haut in Maine is part of Acadia National Park. Hunting is forbidden, and the deer population have no natural enemies.
Consequently, they overgraze the land and none of them ever reach 150 pounds. They are visibly skinny and appear to be half starved. It is impossible for the people to have a garden, so no one benefits from their status as a park.
What's the point?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: maeve
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 10:22 AM

Q's cougar link 23 Apr 12 - 01:56 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Becca72
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 09:30 AM

"And I see no reason why we should kill an animal that acts in accordance with its nature when WE did the stupid thing."

amen, Rap.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 12 - 08:43 AM

Cattle producers want coyote compensation


Attacks are killing calves and New Brunswick is only province lacking program

TIMES & TRANSCRIPT STAFF

Cattle producers throughout the province say they are experiencing an onslaught of coyote attacks and killing of calves, despite their best prevention efforts.

'At a time when the beef industry is trying to recover from several years of poor market prices and the BSE crisis, the coyote attacks could be the last straw for many producers,' said Jennifer MacDonald, president of the Agriculture Alliance and a beef producer herself.

MacDonald said coyote attacks have been an ongoing problem, but with the coyote population seeming to be growing and getting more aggressive, producers have decided to get more vocal about the issue.

They also want the province to create a compensation program to help farmers offset their losses.

She said one producer alone has lost nine calves recently while another has lost two in incidents in Stanley and Sackville.

Coyote populations are growing throughout the province, and urban areas are also experiencing an increased incidence of coyote sightings and human encounters.

Preventative measures such as fencing, are inadequate responses to coyote attacks and prove costly to producers who should not have to incur the cost to safeguard their herds from public wildlife depredation, the president said.

'We're the only province or territory in Canada that doesn't offer compensation,' MacDonald said.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Apr 12 - 10:46 AM

About vicious predators? And it's not about politics?

Oh, you mean the other kind of vicious predators! The kind that actually have a place in the natural order of things!

Folks are seeing young moose, beavers, and skunks on their morning walks around here. And in town, not out in the hills, either. They are also intelligent enough to leave them alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: GUEST,SFJ
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 04:41 PM

Well I'm not discussing politics either.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 04:35 PM

Start a new thread, NAY, refresh an OLLLLD thread about the Royals if you please. I merely responded on a one time basis to a question I was asked. A discussion of same is not warranted nor is it appreciated herein. This is about vicious predators. >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: GUEST,Sfj in the electron cloud
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 04:20 PM

Gnu - I don't need teaching about the Queen - over here we're paying for her and the future monarchy still causes many robust discussions in boozers and around the dinner table. You can heave the lot of them if you love them so much. We've had this lot for a thousand years and they've had their pound of flesh. Ever heard of prince andrew?

Got a coyote skull on my shelf here at home, and will be adding a red fox skull to when I've prepped it. The coyote was road kill I think, the fox died under a neighbours hedge.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 03:42 PM

I proposed that toast in a local bar once and made six new "friends." Had to escape through the window in the men's room.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 02:24 PM

Q... page not found.

Sugar... "Just out of interest, do Canadians want the monarchy?"

Yes. Ignorant Canadians do not. This thread is no place to debate such but I'll just say that when Beth meets with other royals, polititicans, business moguls, religious leaders, etc, around the globe, she gets shit done that your PM could never get done. She serves a purpose that is separate from and, IMO, almost equally as important as your government and she does so for the entire Commonwealth and it's allies. I suggest you watch the BBC's TV program on her diamond jubilee... although it's only a snapshot, it may open you up to further consideration in this regard. Long live The Queen.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 01:56 PM

The prairie rattlesnake occurs in SE British Columbia, far southern Alberta and Saskatchewan. Studies aimed at sustainability and protection of habitat are ongoing in Alberta.

The largest predator in Alberta is the cougar or mountain lion, the largest subspecies in North America is resident here. Licensed winter hunting is (unfortunately) available.
A cougar recently made a kill (deer) on my daughter's place near Calgary. Her camera set-up caught the cougar. See http:wareabouts.ca/cougar.html

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 12:29 PM

I ain't going a-shootin' with no bow (although I do have a longbow . . . haven't shot it for a few years though). Can't afford a telephoto lens.

Saw plenty of elk when we were in the US, along with Mule Deer, Whitetails and Pronghorns. we were in a hotel in Wyoming and they had a collection of stuffed heads on the wall, and one of those elk was bleedin' massive. I've seen big bull deer up close here but I don't think that was as huge as this beast. We do get very big Red Deer here, but I'm guessing these are rarer than in North America. Unfortunately, this mighty beast ended up on someone's wall. Here, this isn't good. Deer need culling occasionally (yum), but this magnificent animal was poached by a criminal trophy hunter. Even so, we don't go into the woods near my house during the rut as the bull deer get a tad territorial.

Saw moose in Yellowstone and the Wapiti Valley. My god, what a place that is. Incredible.

Like the look of the Idaho Museum, especially the fossils and tracks. Great link - thanks. I could live the US. Then you'd have a fat pasty ex-pat brit telling you what to do instead of a fat pasty brit tourist (joke).

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 11:25 AM

Bow. Telephoto lens. Besides, red deer can't hold a candle to the elk and moose we have out this-a-way.

You should come visit the IMNH.

I'm a Yank. Gnu is too but doesn't admit it because he lives in New Brunswick.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 23 Apr 12 - 06:10 AM

Gnu - love the link.

Sheeeeet, we've been talking at cross-purposes here. I didn't realise you were Canadian, I thought you were American. That'll get me in trouble again. I've never been to Canada, would love to go though, especially to Alberta to the badlands of the late Cretaceous (was in Montana a couple of years ago digging up dinosaurs and had one of them danged piesin snakes a'rattlin' at me). Also out to the west coast to see the sea there, and the northern end of the Rockies. Wolves a-plenty up there. Flying over Canada is something else - you got some space up there.

Just out of interest, do Canadians want the monarchy? I'd get rid of the lot tomorrow. Too much damage done over the years around the world in their name. At home too - there's still a feudal system in this country to all intents and purposes. If I wanted to hunt deer I couldn't, as someone now owns the land (they stole it off us during the Acts of Enclosure) and you'd never get access in a million years. I can often see Red Deer grazing on the fields at the back of our house, but if I wanted even just to photograph them chances are I'd never get permission.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 04:58 PM

Rap... "(and probably neither of the Canadians)"

Hahahahahahehehehehehehe! I near spit my tea! Hahahahaaaaaaa

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 04:45 PM

Jack, it ain't the rational tourists. It's the folks who come visiting and tell you how to live your life that become annoyances. Now sometimes that's great because others can see what you can't "because it's always been done that way" but many times lives are lived the way they are because it fits the local environment.

But like gnu and Kendall, if an animal in the wild attacks me -- especially when it normally would flee -- I'll assume it's rabid and take what steps are needed. That includes skunks, raccoons, and squirrels as well as larger ones.

No matter what you might assume from TV the vast, vast, vast majority of the 310,000,000 Americans (and probably neither of the Canadians) don't walk around armed anymore than Londoners do. But having had an "up close and personal" encounter with a prairie rattler (we both lived; I had to change pants) and encounters with other, slightly less personal, encounters with other wild critters, I'd rather err on the side of my own safety. That means that just like there are some bars in town I won't visit, there are some areas of the woods I'll try to avoid.

As for tourists, please come visit but use your good sense. Just because it's black-and-white doesn't mean it's a kitty-cat and just because you think it would be "cute" for your kid to ride on a live grizzly doesn't mean that either is correct. (Both of these examples are true, by the way. One was cleaned up with various chemicals and time, the other...well....)

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 04:31 PM

I have almost never been scared of bears, yotes, eastern brush wolves, cougars, moose (moose aren't dangerous at all if ya know what (not) to do), and others but I would be scared of gators. And pie-sen snakes. Naty spiders too, I expect but we don't have either here... yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 03:58 PM

We haven't heard of coyote sightings here. Could that be because of the bear and alligator sightings?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 03:56 PM

Kendall... a rabid yote or fox or coon or skunk... is pretty easy to spot. Of course, anytime one of those 'cept a yote comes at ya, it's usually rabid and it's good advice to kill it. Then again, if ya ain't got a gun, they got shots fer rabies. Not much good if a pack a yotes chew yer ass tho.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 03:51 PM

Sugar... hmmm. Ahhh, we did become a Dominion in 1867. We did formally did become a "country" in 1982 with the new Charter and The Constitution Act but we still have a Governor General. "My" property upon which my ass presntly sits is still owned by Her Majesty The Queen in Right of Canada. And we still send troops to places like Afghanistan when Beth says we should. So, Canuckistan never really "got out". And, neither did the Yanks, no matter about that Tea Party in Boston a while back. All smoke and mirrors really.

Himmmm himmm himmm... Britannia rules the knaves!

Then again... I'd rather be in the Commonwealth than being bombed by it.

Back to dogs. How do you feel about PIE-sen snakes? Me? Shotgun.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: kendall
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 03:44 PM

If there is a Coyote coming at you in the day time it may be rabid. Kill it.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 03:25 PM

It's not about any one telling and I don't mean to sound preachy (once more, the bloody internet) . . . it's just here in the UK we don't have any large predators and the ecosystems are the worse for it; our landscapes are sterile and lacking a certain something. Don't take to for granted. There's something missing here. My opinions have been informed by your countrymen, and I think we'll have to agree to differ. I accept fully however I don't actually live anywhere there are keystone predators so perhaps don't fully understand the whole picture.

As for Her Majesty's colony . . . you did the right thing getting out while you could. I'm a republican and that lot and their mates are part of the problem. If it comes to the crunch, I hope I can rely on you coming over to man the barricades with those of us trying to throw off the Norman Yoke ;-) There'd be a beer in it for you Gnu!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 03:25 PM

Coyotes can be semi-domesticated. When I was a child, a couple of children I knew had coyotes that they raised from pups. When grown, they had a habit of wandering off, and sometimes were not seen for weeks. In other words, they have little value as pets.

The coyotes here in Alberta are fairly small, they are a minor problem during calving season but a good cow mother can protect her calves. They keep their distance from humans, and are a danger to rodents, hares (often called snowshoe rabbit, common here even in the city) and the like. I know of no attacks against humans or dogs under control. They help keep the alleys in my neighborhood clean of organic garbage carelessly left outside the containers provided by the city. I haven't heard of any "coy-dogs" here, this seems to be largely a myth as noted above. When we had a little farm acerage, we often saw them in the fields and enjoyed their song at night. Our dogs would watch them, but kept their distance except for a stupid miniture schnauzer, which wanted to join them in the fields. The coyotes seemed to want to play with it, but we didn't trust them.



Dogs in packs have been a problem from time to time, and sheppard types have been confused with coyotes.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 02:55 PM

It is your misreading, Sugar. Apology graciously accepted. I'll buy you a pint too. Guns? No. We are a civilized people here in Her Majesty's colony... for the most part. It's just that we don't care for tourists telling us not to shoot something that is intent on biting us. Even tourists... >;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 02:43 PM

"I don't hate either... if they leave me alone."

This just came across as rather aggressive and perhaps a tad intimidating, but then this is the internet. If that's my misreading, then my sincere apologies. You do actually scare me a bit to be honest. You're welcome for a pint and a chat here anytime. No guns though.

So . . . are there wolves in North Carolina can anyone tell me? I assume there are black bears and cougars, but does anyone know if the wolf is either still there or come back?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 02:10 PM

I posted before... they have come at me more than once. But, I used to hunt and fish in the BACKwoods.

A serious problem is the one faced by woodsworkers in the backwoods. Lots of stories of them being treed by packs of yotes. A buddy of mine keeps an old, worn broom in his harvester. If he see any, he "shoulders" the broom as you would a rifle and they take off. I have done the same thing with a raven that was trying to get at grub I had put out for the Moosebirds at my camp. You can even just point at a raven and it will take off.

Of course, with yotes, it depends on location and time of year.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: kendall
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 01:48 PM

I've seen one Coyote. Hardly a threat.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 01:26 PM

Sugar... because you posted... "Do they have them in North Carolina? Do people hate tourists and animals there too?"

And... "Let me know where you live and I'll stay as far away as possible."

If yer gonna put put words in my mouth, I'd appreciate ya doin that. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: bobad
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 01:25 PM

Myths and Facts about Wolves

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 01:07 PM

Gnu - Why hate tourists? We spend our hard-earned in your wonderful country. Some, like myself end up making good friends with the people I have met - friends I hope to have for life.

Shame really. You've got an incredible country, a treasure, with polite, curious, intelligent and (for the most part) friendly people and the sort of wildlife we have to come over there to see. You might think it's funny to take the piss, but I at least offer my respect to your good self.

Never mind. I'm hoping to be over later this year. Let me know where you live and I'll stay as far away as possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 12:41 PM

I don't hate either... if they leave me alone.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 10:46 AM

Actually, perhaps not ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 10:20 AM

Agree about the yappy ever-yaffing dog though.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 22 Apr 12 - 10:14 AM

Ah well. Perhaps I should stop coming to the states if I'm going to be fed to the wolves.

Do they have them in North Carolina? Do people hate tourists and animals there too?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 08:31 PM

Dan... if they hunt in packs, if they run with their tails up, if they weigh 90 pounds... they are not yotes. They are eastern brush wolves. My old man told me that in the late 70s when the game wardens (DNR) said there were NO yotes in our province. I saw them. Maybe the wardens didn't see any because they were at Tim Hortons and not back in the bush where I was.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: olddude
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 08:17 PM

I too love animals, I no longer hunt because I just like watching them, but now when I walk my dogs in the grape vineyards, I also carry my glock. A lady 5 miles aways lost her lab when one rip into it while waling in the woods. They are everywhere here. I hear them every night howling. I hear the pups ... big buggers also .. one got hit by a car and was over 90 lbs. They called it a coyote but I think it was a wolf myself

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: kendall
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 08:12 PM

When I first moved to this area, I used to walk my Labrador retriever past a neighbor's place. He had a nasty dog that would come out with teeth bared and act like he was going to attack either me or my dog.
One day he came too close and I let him have it with my Irish walking stick.I told the owner that if it came at me again I would kill it.
From then on I carried my .38 and I meant what I said. They moved and took the dog with them.
I hate cruelty to animals, but a bullet between the eyes of an attacking dog is not cruel; it would never feel it.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: kendall
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 08:08 PM

I was an avid hunter most of my life, and I never encountered any animal that posed the slightest danger to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 03:54 PM

Feed 'em tourists and yappy little furry footballs. Yeah!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 01:39 PM

Only one, Kendall... to stay away from me or they're dead meat. And I reserve my right to my land and to cruise the bush. I've had literally thousands of encounters with all sorts of deadly animals   and only a half dozen had me in a, hmmm, heightened state of awareness. I've only ever had to kill a few times (one of those times, I didn't get the chance - I posted that story on a recent thread). And, once, I would have done so but had only a knife and got away by using my wits... recall the black bear and the beaver pond story?

Anyway, eastern brush wolves, coyotes, bears, cougars (panthers?) aren't much of a problem here that I am aware of except for livestock and pets in farm country and for pets in towns and cities. I can't see eradicating them unless they do become a problem. If they'd eat Chester's little yapper of a dog, I'd feed them. It barks incessantly for hours... I think Chester is deaf.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: kendall
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 11:41 AM

We have a right to protect our property. Now, what happens when we allow pour property to invade THEIR home ground? Have they NO rights?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 10:59 AM

Taylor Mitchell

Wolves had a bounty on them here in the mid 1800s because they were eating livestock. Otherwise, there wouldn't have been a bounty. As far as no wolf ever attacking a human, pretty hard to disprove a negative, especialy when we are talking over hundreds of years, in the case of NB anyway.

As for them being here first, I am here now. I am all for shoting them if they threaten livestock, pets or people. Of course, I repeat myself.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 10:20 AM

The real experts, those who work around grizzlies every day, generally have someone with them who has a 12-gauge shotgun loaded with "flash-bang" shells. These a basically loud firecrackers and are used to scare a charging critter, not to harm it, and they work. Between the sound of the shot and the "BANG!" of the firecracker the bear or other critter heads off in another direction. don't even think of this unless you know what you're doing.

Park Rangers are scared shitless because people are now allowed to carry firearms in the National Parks, except into buildings. BUT it is totally forbidden to discharge them ("You can carry 'em, Congress said so, but you can't shoot 'em!"). The rangers are afraid of two things: someone's gonna think a naturally curious bear is attacking and it will be shot with a .22 by a panicky tourist and then the Rangers WILL have to "put it down" OR some drunken lout with shoot someone over a campsite dispute. So are the locals, who will have to deal with the results of such stupidity just as the Rangers do...you don't think there's a hospital in Yellowstone, do you?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 10:02 AM

"Congratulations on your experience. It's the sort everyone should have."

It was one of those defining moments in my life, and like you say Rap everyone should experience it.

As for the bear spray . . . ah well, I might as well confess.

We purchased a can of bear spray from a shop in Buffalo, Wyoming on our way to Yellowstone (along with a rather fine stetson). When we started the hike we got up into the woods and the trail was empty, so I decided to test the spray. I checked the wind direction, stood so I could squirt downwind and pressed the nozzle . . . and consequently got a face full of spray as the wind (which I'd misjudged) blew it straight back into my face.

Cue utter havoc. I was instantly blinded, unable to breath properly and totally bloody helpless. My wife then grabs me and we trot off up the trail with her leading me (I couldn't open my eyes for love nor money) as she herself spluttered through the cloud of pepper. When we got far enough away she poured water in my eyes and eventually I could see again. I felt like a right tit.

Suffice to say had I sprayed that at a grizzly we came across then he would have had a nice, helpless fat brit incapable of offering any resistance for his supper. Although we laughed, we realised this was not a game and took it all a bit more seriously after that. Typical townies I guess.

As for those tosspots poaching the game, the mind boggles. Must be something to do with having to prove their manhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 09:48 AM

Exactly, Kendall.

SJ, that sort of experience makes you realize your vulnerability. I can drive to Yellowstone (and other wild places) in 2.5 hours or less. Heck, I can drive to a trailhead and be well into the mountains in less than half an hour. I've had a wolf in my backyard, ferchrissakes! Cougars regularly pass through this area; one was hit by a car in downtown Downey recently, about 40 minutes drive south of here (it wasn't badly hurt and was tranquilized and relocated). Elk, deer -- a friend of mine saw a young moose along the banks of the river the other day, where the river flows through a city park.

The very worst predators are the damnedfools and idiots who come visiting from LA, Salt Lake City, and other undescribable places. For reasons known only to themselves they have poached wild game (taking only the heads, of course), maimed or killed cattle (it's not all that hard to shoot a cow!), set fire to both public and private lands, emptied their rented RV's holding tank into the nearest creek, destroyed the silence, and in general deserve to disappear into The Wild.

Congratulations on your experience. It's the sort everyone should have.

Do you know what we call bear spray out here?
--Seasoning.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 09:33 AM

Oh yeah- forgot fatalities caused by horses. We better start shooting them, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 09:32 AM

[Coyotes] eat livestock, pets and humans.

C'mon, gnu- coyotes eating humans?? Some time check the number of humans (for real!) and livestovck killed annually in the U.S. and/or Canadan by domestic dogs & compare to coyotes and/or wolves. You'll find that the former exceeds the latter exponentially.

So, lets start shooting all the dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: kendall
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:18 AM

How come there is not one documented case of a Wolf attacking a human?
Bears will avoid you if you don't surprise them. We are not natural prey for either species.
However, if you are incapable of using your head, stay out of the woods.They were here first.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Stu
Date: 21 Apr 12 - 07:17 AM

"Fuck em. They eat livestock, pets and humans. Humans can fill the void if a predator is required to control the population of some species. Just like they did here with wolves back in the mid 1800s."

No they can't. White men with guns and an attitude of superiority are the real problem here (as they are across so much of the world, and have been for a couple of thousand years). Until they arrived there was no problem with wolves and humans existing together as they had done for thousands of years. Wolves have been driven out of everywhere us and our ancestors have rocked up. Here in the UK we need to reintroduce wolves to start re-balancing the ecosystem, but rich white men with guns who robbed the land off the original inhabitants won't have it as it will interrupt their 'sport' (the last wolf in Great Britain was shot in the 1700's).

Like it or not, extirpation of wolves is detrimental to the environment and humans cannot replace then as keystone predators: the way wolves influence an ecosystem is down to more than what they eat. They influence the behaviour of prey such as elk and moose and this in turn means over browsing is checked. I can recommend a superb book called The Wolf's Tooth by Cristina Eisenberg, which discusses the impact of wolf populations on ecosystems. Of course there is a balance we need to strike here as people have to make a living, but we need to dump our cultural baggage and move on. There are areas where control is necessary, but there are alternatives to blasting the living shit out of everything in sight.

Here's a plea from the heart: Here in the UK we destroyed our native ecosystems over hundreds of years, and with this shower of toffs in power efforts are continuing to slaughter our remaining wildlife despite the fact the evidence shows this is a disaster. In the times I've visited the US I've been struck by the fact you have wilderness, room for large keystone predators like wolf and cougar and the animals they prey on. What you have is special beyond words, and you guys are guardians of this treasure for every man, woman and child on this planet.

I might have said this before, but when we were hiking in the backcountry of Yellowstone a couple of years ago I had an epiphany. Two UK hayseed brits complete with bear spray set out into old growth forest where (according to the warning) grizzly and brown bears were passing through and of course, there were wolves about. We didn't see any (we did meet a really confident ground squirrel), but walking through those woods I felt a feeling I'd never experienced before, the fact I wasn't the top of the food chain. It sent a tingle down the spine, made you really look at what was about, be aware of your environment and heightened the senses. This is what it felt like for our ancestors on the plains of Africa. This made me feel really alive.

I love the stories you guys tell and have the greatest respect for you and have learnt much, but sometimes I don't think you know how lucky you are to have what you have. Once it's gone, it ain't coming back, and then we all loose.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 11:30 PM

Well said, Rap!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 10:20 PM

I live in bear and wolf country. And coyotes. And mountain lions. And some other critters that'll gnaw on you if you give them a chance.

If you're not stupid there's very little problem. If you do stupid things, like storing your food and garbage in the same tent you're sleeping in or deciding that the grizzly cub should be petted, well, the gene pool gets a little deeper with your getting out of it.

Take them folks who think that they can live and love with the grizzlies. Well, they might, but in the long run I'm betting on the humans being the blue plate special. And I see no reason why we should kill an animal that acts in accordance with its nature when WE did the stupid thing.

Now, I don't like the idea of "garbage dump bears" or messing with their natural food sources because they can become dependent on human's "largesse." If a lion takes a cow, well, to the lion it's just "slow elk" and yes, it can mean not covering the mortgage to the farmer or rancher. Gotta balance it out.

So: I propose that we feed tourists to the animals, but only tourists who are stupid enough to hike the backcountry in shorts and flip-flops in June, who can't tell the difference between reality and television shows, and who think baby animals are just cuddly-wuddly cute little balls of fursy-wursy yes um is!.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 09:25 PM

From:GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 04:14 PM

Power outage ate my cookie.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 04:14 PM

"Wolves and coyotes are valuable in the natures hierarchy."

Fuck em. They eat livestock, pets and humans. Humans can fill the void if a predator is required to control the population of some species. Just like they did here with wolves back in the mid 1800s. City slickers and tree huggers ain't never been approached by a pack of Eastern Brush Wolves. I have and it ain't a whole lotta fun. I didn't enjoy what I had to do... fold up three of them several minutes apart before they got the message and left me alone.

Now, they are smart criiters, but fact is, they have become so prevalent and so used to humans that don't go after them that they go after livestock, pets and humans. Same thing with black bears and I have had a lot of run-ins with bears... up until about twenty years ago bears would run away on site or smell of a human. Not so since. Fuck em... I mean the city slickers and tree huggers.

Until ya spend time in the bush or on the farm tryin ta make a livin, I don't see yer point.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 03:34 PM

Wolves and coyotes are valuable in the natures hierarchy.
There is an attempt to re-introduce the wolf to New Mexico, so far unsuccessful.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: kendall
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 02:26 PM

Wolves keep the Coyotes down.

Man screws with nature like some witless tinkerer who tries to repair a machine when he has no knowledge of what he is doing.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 01:08 PM

Moncton, New Brunswick Times&Transcript today, article by James Foster

... "The booming number of coyote hunters in this province were astounded to learn of the giant canine shot on the Acadian Peninsula earlier this month, as well as the almost identical beast nailed by a hunter in Newfoundland days earlier, both of the animals looking suspiciously like wolves.

If I hadn't seen the photos with my own eyes and heard assurances that the carcasses had been witnessed by wildlife officials, I wouldn't have believed it.

Jacques Mallet shot the wolf-like animal weighing nearly 90 pounds near St-Simon in early April. I do believe this fellow didn't know what he was seeing, as it was only the second wild canine he has shot since taking up coyote hunting just two years ago.

The last wolf reported killed in N.B. was in 1876, thanks to a bounty instituted in 1858.

DNA tests being done right now will tell the tale, but it would truly be astounding if this animal turns out to be a wolf. That's entirely possible, with wolves occasionally seen in Quebec and in Maine. While St.-Simon is a good hike from either of those two jurisdictions, it certainly seems within a reasonable distance for a species of large carnivore seeking to extend its home range."

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Janie
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 01:27 AM

Hard choices are going to have to be made.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 28 Jan 11 - 12:32 AM

The day before yesterday as I was heading to Halifax a deer ran across the road about 500 feet ahead of me. Hot on its trail was a pack of four coyotes. It ran into the woods on the far side and probably met its demise in the deeper snow. These canines are classed as Eastern Coyotes but they are much different from their western cousins in size and behavior. They run and hunt in packs with an alpha male and female as do wolves. They also move into urban areas preying on garbage and pets as wolves do not. They are very elusive and hard to hunt or trap, like a true coyote and are highly intellegent like a German Shepherd, and larger ones are about the same size. In winter when their fur is thick and full they are a beautiful animal and most keep to the forest, but some are aggressive and dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Janie
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 09:42 PM

Which is why calling them eastern Coyotes is also a misnomer.

Most eastern Coyotes in the southeast are not wolf-coyote hybrids.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 09:30 PM

Northeastern Naturalist 17(2):189-204. 2010
doi: 10.1656/045.017.0202

Genetic Characterization of Eastern "Coyotes" in Eastern Massachusetts

Jonathan G. Way1, Linda Rutledge2, Tyler Wheeldon2 and Bradley N. White2

1 Eastern Coyote Research, 89 Ebenezer Road, Osterville, MA 02655.

2 Natural Resources DNA Profiling and Forensic Centre, Environmental and Life Sciences Graduate Program, Trent University, Peterborough, ON L8S 4K1, Canada.

* Corresponding author - [e-mail].

Abstract

This study examined the genetic nature and relatedness of Canis latrans (Coyotes) in eastern Massachusetts (i.e., eastern Coyotes). We characterized 67 animals at the mitochondrial DNA control region, and 55 of those at 8 microsatellite loci. Structure analysis and factorial correspondence analysis of the microsatellite genotypes indicated that the eastern Coyotes in Massachusetts clustered with other northeastern Canis populations and away from western Coyotes, C. lycaon (Eastern Wolves), and C. lupus (Gray Wolves). They contained mitochondrial haplotypes from both western Coyotes and Eastern Wolves, consistent with their hybrid origin from these two species. There was no evidence of either C. lupus familiaris (Domestic Dog) or Gray Wolf mitochondrial DNA in the animals. These results indicate that the eastern Coyote should more appropriately be termed "Coywolf" to reflect their hybrid (C. latrans x lycaon) origin. Genetic data were also used to assess parental and kinship relationships, and confirmed that family units typically contain an unrelated breeding pair and their offspring. Lastly, a synthesis of knowledge of the eastern Coyote as well as implications for Wolf recovery in the northeast US is provided.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Janie
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 09:13 PM

pdq, I tend to agree, from what little I have read or know. I have been casually reading about and following news and science articles about the spread of coyotes in the NC Piedmont for a few years.

The article bobad linked is interesting, but I'm not so sure of the science and statistics presented. For one thing, I think it is more than a misnomer to label the wolf-coyote hybrids found in parts of eastern Canada "eastern coyotes."

It may be that wolves and coyotes have hybridized extensively in Canada and/or New England. (from the Wikipedia entry on the Eastern Wolf {canis lycaon}On March 31, 2010, a presentation by Ontario Ministry of Natural Resources research scientist Brent Patterson outlined key findings about the Eastern Wolf (and coyotes): Most coyotes in Eastern Ontario are wolf-coyote hybrids; wolves in Algonquin Park are, in general, not inter-breeding with coyotes; and the buffer zone around Algonquin Park is a great success with mortality rates down and populations remaining stable.[2]

Very little evidence exists of significant hybridization within the North Carolina population of coyotes (estimated to be about 50,000 now.) That is not to say there are no dog or wolf/coyote hybrids, but they ain't the main story here. The only red wolves (canis lupus rufus) in the wild in the southeast is a population of just over 100 in and around Alligator River National Wildlife Refuge on the North Carolina coast. Coyotes in North Carolina and the southeast, from what I have read, tend to range between 20-40 lbs, consistent with the size of non-hybrid coyotes.

As a related aside, it is also pretty fascinating to read about all the uncertainty, controversy and opinions within the scientific community about the taxonomy of wolves extant in North America.

Regardless, it is all quite interesting. Evolution continues.

I wouldn't be surprised if non-hybrid coyotes in the southeast do not prove to be a little larger than western coyotes, simply because they are not competing any "top predators," (the rest of top predators, save the struggling red wolf, all having been extinquished) and in the absence of top predators, there is an overabundance of prey. (White-tail deer, cottontail rabbits, gray squirrels and abundant rodents, possums, groundhogs, etc. )

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 07:40 PM

The spelling?... lunch.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 06:34 PM

...or a timber wolf/chihwawa (how do you actually spell that) hybrid..,

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 06:18 PM

Actually, that point was made by Q, I believe.

My main point is that many species are poorly defined and only become clearly distinct when we ignore the intermediate examples. I think the 89 pound canine mentioned is a wolf with some genetic material from coyote and domestic dog added.

The 22 pound critter that howls at the moon in the California foothills is a coyote.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 06:07 PM

I`ve met both wolf and coyote in person. Wolves tend to go away and coyotes do the same. I expect maybe the coyotes weren`t hungry enough. However, when I`m unarmed I tend to stay near enough to trees that escape is likely for me. As PDQ said, humans are fast encroaching their territories, and they have no choice but to encroach ours.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 05:51 PM

The cougar is thriving in Alberta and making a comeback in Quebec. fwiw

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 04:15 PM

You are absolutely right Gnu, there were not suppose to be any cougars left around either, all killed off more than 100 years ago. That is until a guy hit a juvenile one with his truck about 8 years ago near the swamp about 12 miles away. I can see them thriving in that place, you never saw such thick brush, thorns, bushes. impossible to even walk in that place. The coyotes here are all huge and I suspect they are wolves or wolf mix but I am no expert on the various calls, you can hear them howl about every night. But there is an endless supply of food in the grape vines, miles and miles filled with rabbits and every other thing they need. Back in PA the coyotes I grew up around were much smaller and much more skiddish critters. The fur also was much more ratty looking. Certainly never attack a dog the size of a lab.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 03:58 PM

Mrrzy, do you hump domestic dogs? LOL .... sorry you opened the door I walked through ... Me bad LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 03:39 PM

Mrrzy?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 03:29 PM

And here I thought this thread would be about Coyote, one of the few natural forces I personify...

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 03:14 PM

They sound similar but the howls are much louder. >;-)

I often used to get them going after dark. I used to have a small trailer (caravan) parked about 25km from the nearest hunting camp. Just about as far as you could get away from other humans. I'd wind them up with a challenge call and get them to come in close and then whip snowballs at them. They seemed to enjoy the game.

Unfortunately, the first night I brought my recent bride for the initial fall trip, I thought it would be nice to surprise her with observing nature up close in like fashion even though they was no snow. I tried to explain to her that they had to get passed a 225# Good Ol' Boy with a shotgun to get to her. The next morn, we had to pack up and go home.

Odd thing. When I didn't hook the trailer up to the truck she was perplexed. I said it was to remain for when she next wanted to come up and ushered her into the truck. She said she would not be returning and I replied, "Yeah, that's right." The hour and half drive home was silent and not pleasant. When we arrived home, she was again perplexed as to why I didn't get out of the truck. The drive back when I dropped her off was great fun. So were the next 5 days... after I got home, not so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 02:46 PM

I said that the jack rabbit, an animal that the normal western coyote can take, is introroduced when I meant to say that its cousin, the European hare, was introduced and
and can serve as food for the eastern version of the coyote.

If people say "the eastern coyote is part wolf" then it is also fair to say that "the eastern wolf that is part coyote".

Human nature suggests that the first thing we see as kids becomes the standard by which all such things are to be judged. If you first saw a feisty 22 pound coyote in Callifornia, then the 89 pound canine that was hit by a car (mentioned above) in Upstate New York just ain't gonna sound like a coyote to you.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 02:35 PM

BTW, sorry for all the typos and lost words in my posts. I tend to try to go to fast for a hunt-n-pecker and don't proof.

Re interbreeding of species, wolves will mate with dogs. NA native peoples have practised this for centuries and still do. Simply tie a bitch to a tree and the wolves do the rest. Search Malamute.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 02:32 PM

As more and more farmland, pasture and bush is taken over for suburban housing, the coyote (and other animals) lose their natural food supply, and must forage into territory occupied by humans.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 02:23 PM

Dan, that's a nasty big yote.

I doubt if a 20 pound yote could snap the rib bones off the spine of a 150+ pound deer and seen lots of carcasses with only head, spine, femurs and the hide on the ground side.

One thing many people don't understand around here (especially our wildlife biologists - and that simply floors me) is that our "yotes" were eradicated when the white man eradicated the caribou around the turn of the last century. There was NOT enough grub for them.

Now, there is enough grub and that is why they have returned and are thriving. The increasing human population has provided them with new food sources. Deer, for instance, which only appeared here the late 20s and 30s because the stripping of softwood forest allowed a tremendously rapid increase in deer feed. Farming grew to feed an increased population of humans which provided livestock... and pets.

Re the Virginia White Tailed Deer arrival. My old man worked in a lumber camp in the 30s. One supper, a couple of lads told of pig or sheep tracks in the mud. Again, bullshit or crazy talk because the nearest farm was at least 20 miles away. The next eve, they produced a shovel of dirt with these tracks. One of the lads, from The Boston States, announced they were deer tracks. Nobody in the camp had ever seen one or even knew what they were but the Yankee said they must have followed the railway (the only way into many lumber camps) and that they were delicious. Deer steaks and pancakes with maple slurpup became a favourite meal immediately.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 02:18 PM

However, Sgt. Rosemary Moninger of Hood County animal control said Texas A&M University scientists conducted tests and identified the corpse as a "coyote-canine hybrid" with signs of mange and internal parasites.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2010/07/14/Expert-Chupacabra-a-coyote-dog-hybrid/UPI-80031279145698/#ixzz1CGUAEwfb

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 02:16 PM

Could be a myth, I never talked to a biologist only DEC officer and they are not biologists. What I think we have around here is wolves. I saw plenty of track and plenty of really big canines that were no dogs or standard large coyotes. Maybe as Gnu states Brush wolf. however that article says that canine was tested by the Texas biologists as a mix breed. I would have like to seen it .. I wasn't there, that is an API article

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 02:07 PM

However, now they are breeding with people's dogs or stray dogs

The "Coy-Dog" is a myth that has been around for decades. Plenty studies and articles available that dispell the myth.

But, as usual, myth trumps reality every time.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 01:54 PM

I agree. The time I saw any was in the early 70s and they ran as soon as they saw me. I told my old man and he asked me if they were running with their tails straight up. They were. He said, "They are Eastern Brush Wolves. Don't tell anyone you saw them." I asked why and he said, "People will think you are bullshitting or crazy or both." Now they are commonplace and a menace to pets, livestock, and humans. Not too mention deer and moose.

Same thing happened with cougars in the late 70s. There have been many reported sitings here over the years. Even today, the debate is on about whether cougars exist here... they do. I've seen them, their tracks and their droppings. One nearly ran my brother over chasing a rabbit.

The oddest thing of all was the time bro saw two ptarmigan in Kent County, New Brunswick. Yes, some migrate south of the Gulf of St. Lawrence, but THIS far south of The Appalacians? Very rare I should think. Hehehe... on a similar note, I asked bro if they might not have been Spruce Partridge. His response included a description of their proximity to him punctuated with appropriate profanity.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: olddude
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 01:37 PM

One was killed on the highway here up towards Buffalo that the news said was 89 lbs ... that is big

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 01:28 PM

The eastern coyote has been shown, by DNA analysis, to be a hybrid of the western coyote and the eastern red wolf and is consequently much larger than it's western cousin, 35-40lb. and possibly up to 50 lb. versus 25-30lb.

Good info in this regard and on coydogs too here: http://wilddogsne.com/WJ%20NovDec2010%20Coyote.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 01:07 PM

At some point, we need to accept that we are not talking about the same animal.

The 22 pound coyote that thrives in the California foothills and the southwestern deserts takes nothing bigger than a jack rabbit, which, by the way, is an introduced species.

The 85 pound canine described here as running in packs of 10-20 members and bringing down 200 pound deer is a variant of the wolf, even if we choose to call it something else.

maeve linked to some good articles, but the authors clearly state that there is no definitive record of what was in the New England or Maritimes 200 years ago and no specimens of the wolf populations there from which genetic material can be taken.

Remember that named species were created by Man, not God.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 12:28 PM

``Since the average coyote is about 20 pounds and is a "loner", he presents much less danger to people, pets and livestock that the hysteria would indicate. Domestic dogs are more dangerous than coyotes, and domestic cats kill lots of birds without the ecological importance of the coyote.``

Well said, PDQ. Just a small addition. In Alberta, the time coyotes trouble ranchers is calving season. Basic rule is shoot coyotes on sight.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: maeve
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 11:57 AM

Well told, gnu.

Maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 11:55 AM

Years ago, when I hunted, I was after a large buck on snow. I guessed his weight at about 300 pounds. He had 16 ponts. I dislike "trophies", but that will mean something to those who understand what a buck can do with them. I was about a half hour back when I heard the racket. When a buck trumpets, he's really pissed off. I heard some yips and yelps and some nasty howls. About 15 minutes later I heard tremendous en masse howling and I thought the buck may have been taken.

When I got to the scene, the six inches of fresh snow was messed up in a circle 40 fourty feet in diameter. They had come along the edge of the woods near the back of a farmer's field. Nine sets of tracks. The buck had cut across the field. I found no hair. I found a fair bit of fir and blood. The blood was in two spots and two blood trails went into the woods. One was slight and the other was heavy. The buck had continued on in the same direction.

I decided I would end my pursuit out of respect. But the howling... I knew what had happened. I followed the heavy blood trail and saw the body about twenty feet inside the woods. I guessed at about 50 pounds. Might sound harsh but I was pleased. I never went after that buck again and I hope the yotes didn't either.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: GUEST,oldude
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 11:22 AM

Interesting article on the mix breed

coyote-dog

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 11:16 AM

They can be right, it was just what they said in our local paper so I assume it was just a local DEC guy they quoted and not any biologist. I always felt the animals that attacked the ladies dog was wolves (rare here but they do exist) or two wild stray dogs. Wish they would have put a picture when they got them. Stray dogs can look pretty ratty like the fur on a coyote. I myself seen a lot of coyotes, never saw any type of cross breed in all the years I been in the woods. Got lots of coyotes right back of me in the grapevines.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: maeve
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 10:56 AM

Additional signs that local coyotes are losing their fear of humans
from this link:NY State info. for Nuisance Wildlife Control operatorO

*********************
"Some coyotes in suburbia have lost their fear of people. A coyote who does not fear people should be considered dangerous. The foods they find in residential areas (garbage, pet food, pets) are full of human odors, so these coyotes quickly learn to associate food with people. That's bad. Many people become frightened when they see coyotes, and run into their homes. That's even worse. To a coyote, that person has just behaved like prey (running triggers their attack response). In short, food smells like people and people behave like prey. Add to the mix people intentionally feeding coyotes, and the potential for a coyote attack becomes very real.

Certain changes in coyote behavior seem to indicate a growing risk that coyotes will become aggressive toward people (based on studies of coyote-human conflicts in California). The signs are shown in the order they usually happen.

   1. During the night, coyotes kill more pets than they did before
      
   2. During the night, coyotes are seen on streets and in yards more often than before
      
   3. Coyotes are now seen in those areas during the day, especially early morning and late afternoon
      
   4. During the day, coyotes chase or kill pets (previously, only a night-time activity)
      
   5. During the day, coyotes kill pets that are on leash (previously, they only took free-roaming pets), or chase joggers and bikers
      
   6. At midday, coyotes are seen near children's play areas

Coyotes are generally nocturnal, so increasing daytime activity is often a sign that those animals have become used to people. Such boldness should be taken seriously. The California study suggests that if the situation is addressed before pet attacks are common, further problems can probably be avoided."

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: maeve
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 10:39 AM

This is an interesting take on the issue: http://ncmg.blogspot.com/2005/07/coy-dogs-maybe-not.html

Dan, I remember when New Hampshire and Vermont were up in arms because of what was then thought to be Coydogs (Coyote father, dog mother). Within ten years or so, biologists had concluded that in fact a coyote- domestic dog hybrid was rare. The same conclusion was reached here in Maine.

Maeve

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: GUEST,olddude
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 10:11 AM

Here is the biggest problem from what they said in the paper around my parts. A coyote is very afraid of people, they are solitary critters and hunt small game. However, now they are breeding with people's dogs or stray dogs ... now you get a critter that will hunt in a pack with little fear of people. That is where the big issue is coming into play. A lady in the town next to me lost her lab when she was walking through the woods. Two of the mix breed critters killed her dog. In the article she tried to hit them off her dog with a stick and they still continued the attack. The game commission killed the critters. That is becoming a concern among the game commissions throughout the states I hear tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 10:01 AM

In The Maritimes, the yotes are much bigger, they run in packs, they kill a lot of deer (30 to 40% of their diet), they kill sheep/goats/any small animal, and they can carry rabies. They also attack humans (as per Bob's post). They are smarter than many dogs.

I do not go in the backwoods without a gun. I am more afraid of coyotes than black bears.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: pdq
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 09:26 AM

...from desertusa.com...

"Although the coyote has been observed killing sheep, poultry and other livestock, it does not subsist on domestic animals. Food habit studies reveal that its principle diet is composed of mice, rabbits, ground squirrels, other small rodents, insects, even reptiles, and fruits and berries of wild plants."

Since the average coyote is about 20 pounds and is a "loner", he presents much less danger to people, pets and livestock that the hysteria would indicate. Domestic dogs are more dangerous than coyotes, and domestic cats kill lots of birds without the ecological importance of the coyote.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 08:57 AM

open mike, the victim of the attack to which you allude was Taylor Mitchell, a young Toronto indie singer-songwriter who was on tour in Nova Scotia at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 08:29 AM

Coyotes are weird critters....

A few years back, on a round-trip from Pensacola, Florida to Jacksonville, Florida (350 miles), Interstate 10 was literally littered with road-killed coyote carcasses. It's not uncommon to see an occasional road-kill along that stretch, but on this particular trip there was one every three or four miles, on average. It was like some sort of mass hysteria dulled their normally keen survival instinct and drew them to the highway to be run over.

And coyotes have a sweet tooth. Our friend Phil tried growing watermelons for market a few years back, and every time a few would reach the ripe stage, they'd disappear from his field. He thought it was neighborhood kids until he was walking through nearby woods scouting deadfalls for firewood and came across a clearing where he found the remains of his lost watermelons, each with clear canine fang marks.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: open mike
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 02:26 AM

wasn't there an incident on a hiking trail in the last year or two where a woman was killed by a very large coyote? perhaps in canada?

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: 3refs
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 12:33 AM

Watch the program on Lobo. Not sure just how smart they can get!

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Janie
Date: 27 Jan 11 - 12:27 AM

Was talking to someone who lives a couple miles outside of town in an expensive housing development that has sprung up from a sold-off farm. They hear the coyotes almost nightly. She was distressed to walk out in her yard one morning to find a nearly completely eaten deer carcass. My reaction, which I kept to myself, was "Wow, they keep busy enough and you could start growing hostas again!"

I hear what you are saying 3refs. I find myself thinking, "They have their place, and so do we humans." Both species need to be kept in balance.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: 3refs
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 11:35 PM

Only when they become a problem for humans,(or the other way around)should they be irraticated. And I mean every one of them. They can become a "big" problem!
Incredibley social and really on wonder of the amimal society! Seagull of the bush!

You may have seen this about a wolf called Lobo. My Mom called two big Shepherds she had "Lobo".

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/episodes/the-wolf-that-changed-america/introduction/4260/

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Janie
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 11:26 PM

Coyotes are rapidly expanding their range into the east, where they have not been before. Given the explosion of the deer population, I don't see that as a bad thing. They are much more successful, on their own, than the re-introduced red wolf population has been over on the coast. (poacher

I also don't see it as a bad thing if it means my neighbor starts keeping her 4 dogs constrained instead of pissing and sh*ting all over my yard and plants when she turns them loose at night. (Her four cats that were massacring the birds in my yard apparently have all died from viruses and deseases or getting hit by cars.

Here in the east, we humans have not cohabited with major natural predators for a long time. Do us good to get used to it again. Might bring us back to the realities of the natural world.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 11:10 PM

Coyotes are important in keeping down rodent and rabbit populations. Also eat a lot of grasshoppers. Still important in the West.

Here in Calgary, they forage in alleys at night. No problem, as long as little dogs and cats are under control.

Love their singing. Better that some of the stuff heard on radio these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Beer
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 10:11 PM

Three years ago while picking raspberries I scare about six coyote pups. They scattered so fast it was amazing. Problem was I found myself in an area that was clearly a hang out with bones all around. Man, I just slowly backed away and kept looking over my shoulder for a long time. Parents must have been on a hunt or they were watching to see what I was planning on doing.
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Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Rapparee
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 09:16 PM

I don't have a problem with them. They let me alone and I let them alone. They don't leave me alone, well....

Subject: RE: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: Amergin
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 05:20 PM

I was at the vet several months ago...and some one brought in their dog, who still had red marks on her body, from when a coyote tried to run off with her....apparently, he shot the bastard, saving his dog's life...and this is in city limits...he wasn't cited.

Subject: BS: Some Coyote Information
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 26 Jan 11 - 04:12 PM

Somebody e-mailed me a link about living with Coyotes. The population
is increasing fast, and some coyote attacks have been reported.

Living With Coyotes