BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 10:27 PM

DonFirst:"And it's not politics, it's ethics. You've heard of it..haven't you?"

Well, I'm GLAD you brought that up! Mr.radio station manager!

When you decided what to broadcast, was it for ratings, so you pandered to your local demographic(like on here), or was there an actual ETHIC, in bringing the best you could bring?????

Being as you're up in the Washington state area, known for being pathetically 'liberal' above being logical, I guess you could peddle whatever mindless bullshit you could, saying it in any quasi-'hip' way, and get applauded for being 'on top of the story'....even if you sacrificed the FULL story, to appease your listening audience! Same with music...didn't you play a lot of commercial crap, so you could charge higher advertising fees???

I think you'd say ANYTHING to assure your 'popularity'(just like the business end of radio), without giving a damn, about its accuracy, taste, or lasting effects, on who is listening, ..just so long as the ratings are high, and the bucks keep coming in!!!

That's EXACTLY what you do on here...but that's all you've known to do...for years now!

Now I'm sure you'll come out with shit like how you're so 'right' like you did in that other thread, making a complete ass of yourself, in the process(which you got called on, and by others)...and how your 'station(read:computer blogging), is 'the best in the west', and how 'hip' and 'dialed in' you are. But the truth is, though you use broadcasting logic, and make things 'SOUND' like you know what you're talking about, therefore the 'host with the most', a great deal what you spout off about, on here, is complete bullshit!

You've heard myself AMONG others, point to the media, and blast it for being dishonest, corrupt, biased, and misleading..for profit..well good ol' pal...YOU ARE THE MEDIA!!! and your posts are the same mindless and almost persuasive blather, that we've all come to know about the media!!!!

Maybe you should take a commercial break, only to find out that the policies you're selling out to, the public can't afford the crap you're peddling...what are you going to do now???

Now I'm expecting to hear a broadcasted 'disclaimer', and proceed to demonize me, as you've tried so many times before, but I'm calling you on your practice, ethics, and media propaganda, that you're spewing forth, with complete abandon to any responsibility 'to its content'...( a phrase the media recites when they broadcast shit, that might be controversial, and get their listener audience's knickers in a twist, so they can say, that they're 'trying to bring all sides', in case, that audience thinks the station is actually as lame as the show they put on)...God no! don't think bad of us, we're only the radio station.(We can be lame, and get away with it).

Sorry Charlie....Don't talk to me about ethics, you 'sell out' con man for the highest bidder of advertising time!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 11:00 PM

There's no pathos to liberal thought; it espouses reciprocal dignity and tolerance. Your bitterness reveals its own sour roots.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 11:04 PM

Amos, you have no clue about me, or what you're talking about, in regards to me. Stifle it!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 11:12 PM

WOW! That was quite a little outburst, there!

GfS, you're an idiot!

I never said anywhere that I was a radio station manager. You made that up, just like most of what you post.

I was an announcer at a classical music radio station. I put records on turntables, told the listeners what music I was about to play, then flipped the switch. Some of this (Monteverdi, Mozart, Beethoven, Stravinsky, etc.) was selected by me, but most by the program director, Bob MacDonald. I read commercials (time sold by the sales department) and public service announcements at the times the station manager specified in the log. At the top of the hour, I read the news (torn from the teletype).

I had nothing to do with the advertising fees. That was a whole different department. Not my job.

You made up a whole fictional "Don First," which is not me. You can't even get my name right!

That's a real tour de force there, GfS! You have managed to combine the fallacies of argumentum ad hominem with "The Straw Man." Bravo!!

Not only are you barking up the wrong tree, you're lost in the wrong bloody forest!

"Counselor?" You, sir or madam as the case may be, are the one who is badly in need of psychological help. Your last couple of posts in particular more than amply demonstrate that you are losing your grip.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 11:14 PM

ConFirth must be typing away every excuse and reason he can..while you're at it, don't forget, to include how you were so SELF absorbed into YOU, that your first old lady kept you from being around the kid, that you never wanted..so you could pursue a career, in bullshitting people for profit!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ebbie
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 11:46 PM

You know, they do say that people go into the field of work where they themselves are deficient. So maybe Guest/Far, Far from Sanity is a counselor. *g*

(Although I devoutly hope not.)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 11:49 PM

Pure fiction, GfS. You take a few things I said about mayself (a marginal note's worth) and wrote a whole War and Peace-sized novel from that, making it all up as you go along. All pure fiction and bearing no resemblance whatsoever to anything in my real life.

You know, this would be funny if it weren't so sick! I must have really got up your nose for you to explode with this kind of frenzied hatred for me. I'm getting a bit worried about you.

Okay, I'll leave you alone for a few hours so you can calm down a bit. Barbara just got home from her job at the library, so we're going to have a bit to eat and watch a movie on DVD. I'll be off-line until tomorrow.

Try to relax and calm down.

Don Firth*

*Firth = Scottish place name, i.e. Solway Firth, Firth of Forth, Pentland Firth, etc. My great-grandfather came from Scotland with the Hudson's Bay Company in 1851 and eventually settled in the San Juan Islands (north of Seattle).

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 11:51 PM

Mebbe you don't think you are bitter. Your language says otherwise. I stifle NUFFINK!!! :D

Seriously, though, it is just possible you have substituted local conclusions for global judgement. An easy error to make.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 12:24 AM

From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:31 PM

Considering the vagueness of some of the verbiage used by Ake, especially GfS, and also Little Hawk, it's sometimes not real easy to follow what the hell they are trying to say, if anything. Perhaps that's the point.

And before someone attempts to cast aspersions on my ability to comprehend, let me remind them that I majored in English as well as Music and I have worked ("day jobs") as a technical writer (often trying to translate "governmentese" into plain English) and as a radio station news director.
Don Firth

Oh, you mean propaganda minister??? Professional SPINNER????...ONE WHO TAKES FACTS AND TURNS IT WHAT IS 'FIT FOR THE PUBLIC'S CONSUMPTION'?...to say whatever you want it to mean?..like on here???

When you said you just played 'classical music',are you lying now, or back then?..as the news(?) director.
You want to talk about ethics, man, let's go!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 01:04 AM

Here, let's put this in context:

NOW:

From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 11:12 PM

I was an announcer at a classical music radio station. I put records on turntables, told the listeners what music I was about to play, then flipped the switch. Some of this (Monteverdi, Mozart, Beethoven, Stravinsky, etc.) was selected by me, but most by the program director, Bob MacDonald. I read commercials (time sold by the sales department) and public service announcements at the times the station manager specified in the log. At the top of the hour, I read the news (torn from the teletype)."

THEN:

From: Don Firth
Date: 28 May 09 - 07:31 PM

"Considering the vagueness of some of the verbiage used by Ake, especially GfS, and also Little Hawk, it's sometimes not real easy to follow what the hell they are trying to say, if anything. Perhaps that's the point.

And before someone attempts to cast aspersions on my ability to comprehend, let me remind them that I majored in English as well as Music and I have worked ("day jobs") as a technical writer (often trying to translate "governmentese" into plain English) and as a radio station news director.
Don Firth"

Oh, you mean propaganda minister??? Professional SPINNER????...ONE WHO TAKES FACTS AND TURNS IT WHAT IS 'FIT FOR THE PUBLIC'S CONSUMPTION'?...to say whatever you want it to mean?..like on here???

When you said you 'just played classical music', are you lying now, or back then?..as the news(?) director.

So knock off the accusations, about 'homophobes' and 'bigotry'.
Your consistency of the truth, and representing things as they really are, are highly at question!!!
You want to talk about ethics, man, let's go!

(sigh)..trying to cop a lower plea,,,jeez!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 01:57 AM

So sorry to repeat myself, but the Sanity person (oh the irony) is still trying to wriggle out of what I said, or twist it perversely.

I focused on sexual acts because that was the turf on which the poster I was challenging had chosen to focus.

If you want to discuss relationships, let's go for it. I could tell you about the stable, loving, happy, lifetime relationship I have been in for fifteen years. But you wouldn't want to hear about that, as it contradicts your preferred images of how gay men are.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 04:34 AM

Smedley,

I think you are making the same mistake that the rest of us keep making time and time again ... Doh!

And that is the assumption that GfS's comments have any bearing whatsoever on anyone elses point.

She lives in a whirlwind of desperate confusion and needs to justify her fears to feel safe.

A miserable existence.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 04:45 AM

Jeri

From: Jeri - PM
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 10:08 PM

I think you have just about summed it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 04:46 AM

"Homosexual men indulge in practises that revolt most ordinary people. Why will you never acknowledge the facts? "

One practice that is not revolting is that in my experience, our gay friends make wonderful soufflés.

As to how this thread has gone...

There are some people on here that revolt me to be honest. But I bet none of them are gay. In fact, I would put money on the fact that the vast majority of them have religious beliefs.

Scroll up far enough and you will find a quote from some philosopher or other that I posted, and it seems so many screen scrolls ago, I might just repeat it. Cos a) I can and b) I like it.

Religion is like a municipal swimming baths. All the noise comes from the shallow end.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 05:05 AM

"GfS, you're an idiot!"
No he's not - he's an out-of-the-closet homophobe and an apologist for wholesale child abuse.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 05:20 AM

Some of them make wonderful soufflés as StmngWillie remarked: others can be distinguished broadcaster & writer of books on the popular arts, in stable longterm CivicPartnership relationship with member of the Inner Magic Circle, which is case with a couple among my [still think really in terms of "our" to include my dear dead wife] dearest friends in the world. What's with these people [Ake, GfS, Paco et al] who imagine they must be up to something nefarious & unspeakable, instead of just getting on with their lives and careers like the rest of us?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jeri
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 12:05 PM

I called CDC and managed to ask a couple questions they couldn't answer, so I got elevated. They're going to e-mail me, and I can follow up with them by e-mail.

"Over half (53%) of these new infections occurred in gay and bisexual men" is correct, but my questions were:

How did they know the infections were new? (Were there previous negative tests?)

Were members of other risk groups included in the 53%, i.e. IV drug users?

They aren't going to do anything more than speculate as to why the difference between the US and other places in the world are so different. It could be because there's a lot of gay/bisexual men who are HIV positive already in the community. In Africa, there may be a lot of heterosexuals who are HIV positive already in the community.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 01:55 PM

Incredible, Gfs!

I didn't realize that I was as powerful and sinister as Ernst Stavro Blofeld, the arch villain from the James Bond novels/movies. But then media moguls like Rupert Murdock, Ted Turner, and me wield a lot of power and influence on world affairs. Nor did I realize that I had managed all by myself to turn Washington State into "The Soviet of Washington," that notorious "liberal fascist" state. Wow! I am so-o-o-o-o cool!

"When you decided what to broadcast. . . ."

To set the record straight, GfS, I was not the one who decided what to broadcast. I was an announcer. Announcers are the on-the-air voices who read commercials, read news (not write, read), and play music records. What kind of records depends on the orientation of the station, and that's determined by the owner of the station, and that was not me.

Prior to working at a classical music station in Seattle, I worked for a year at a small station in eastern Washington. There, I was an announcer and news director. As news director, my duties consisted of calling the local police station, sheriff's department, and hospital first thing in the morning to see if anything newsworthy had happened overnight. Other than that, on my board shift, I would read the latest national news headlines (off the teletype—Associated Press broadcast news service) at the top of each hour. Whatever I put on the air was vetted and approved by the station manager, who, as I said, was not me.

I also wrote and produced commercials. I wrote the copy from a fact sheet that the commercial time salesman handed me (what the sponsor, i.e. sporting goods store, restaurant, car repair shop, or whatever wanted said in the commercial), then read the copy, recording it onto a tape cartridge, often over appropriate background music. There, too, the station manager had to approve what I had done before it went on the air.

I had no control over station policy, what commercials were aired, nor, at this station, the music I played. It was all pre-programmed and on fifteen inch reels of tape. I just pressed the button that started and stopped the tape.

As I said above, at the Seattle classical music station, the only thing I had to do with news was to tear it off the teletype (once again, AP) and read about five minutes worth of national and local news at the top of the hour, every two hours, along with a weather report. My main duty was to select, announce, and play music records (once again, classical, not pop, rock, or elevator music. Classical.) that met the guidelines of the station format—that is, I selected and played classical records other than the featured works already selected by the program director, who, once again, was not me.

And I also played the listed recorded commercials or read commercial copy when the station log indicated that I should. In addition, I wrote down the meter readings from the transmitter at prescribed intervals, required by the Federal Communications Commission, and signed the transmitter log.

So that was me, diabolically propagandizing and ruling the world from behind a microphone.

I worked in radio for about seven years. It was fun, but I had an opportunity to make use of my writing skills (after all, I was an English major in college before I changed my major to Music) by working as a technical writer for the Bonneville Power Administration's energy conservation program (residential weatherization), so I took it. Also, it paid better than broadcasting and I no longer had to get up a 5:30 in the morning.

And your comments about my "first old lady" and my son are vicious and mean, totally inaccurate, and fail to consider the amount of emotional pain that was involved when she and I decided, due to circumstances beyond our control, that it was better—for her and the boy—that we not see each other again. I am just very happy that when he was grown up and learned the truth, he wanted to meet me. And we've been the best of friends—closer than most fathers and sons—ever since.

As a "counselor," you lack all human understanding and have a real mean streak in you. God help your clients! If any!

By the way, how's your life going these days? Your relationship with your father?

Crawl back under your rock. You're still a bigot.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 02:49 PM

Some UK stats.
(Our situation is different because we have immigrants from Africa where it infects more heterosexuals than in western countries.)

Although only about 1% of the total population of Britain are adult gay men, almost half of the people living with HIV are gay men.

This means gay men are about 90 times more likely to be living with HIV than other people.

Similarly, although African people account for about 1% of the population in Britain, 33% of the people living with HIV are African.

This means African people in Britain are about 50 times more likely to be living with HIV than other ethnic groups.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3856963.stm

(Without the African dimension, gay men would account for rather more than the 53% quoted for USA)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 03:36 PM

I wonder if Ake knows ...

... he might decide to prevent the unhealthy promotion in our schools of the idea that being African is healthy and normal.

He might suggest that children should be discouraged from being African as for us to do otherwise would be irresponsible.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 07:29 PM

This is interesting....
http://firozeshakir.blogspot.com/2009/07/world-without-hijras-would-suck.html

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 08:27 PM

Being African is not behavioural and catagorising them in this way would is racist......you should be ashamed of yourself and will almost certainly be drummed out of the "liberals"

That's just a little more of the irony that you proved yourself incapable of understanding when responding to posts from Sanity, Little Hawk and myself futher up the thread.
I've just been discussing Alan Bennett on another thread and you remind me of a Bennett English characterisation......complete with the ability to suspend reality, ignore that which is obvious and show self obsession on a massive scale.
You just brush off Keith's figures as if they didn't exist, although they support everything I have been saying about the need to have greater control over the disease.
Worse.....You attempt to turn these figures into a stupid, witless joke

Still waiting for that apology by the way!!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 09:17 PM

Jeri, thank you very much.

Ake, you got it right--and if anywhere I implied you were fulla 'beans' I hereby apologize.

The statistic (53%) is shocking. I'd expect it means that gay men are not using condoms and that is causing the very high (compared to hetero) infection rate. Are there any efforts people are aware of to 'get the news' to the gay population? Seems that it's kinda stupid on people's part (in a country where condoms are fairly cheap) not to take the precaution, and I expect that gays are aware of the infection rate. What can be done?

Smedley, I am addressing this to you because I would guess you are more aware of 'gay' issues than I am. What happens where you are? Are there programs that include the gay community specifically and if so are those programs effective? Serious question for you there, buddy.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 09:27 PM

Guest.....no need for an apology from you.

We can all make mistakes and you were never abusive. You were right to question the figures....at first I thought them unbelievable, but they are correct and rising steadily

While these shocking figures are being ignored and people who point them out abused, there is little hope for the unfortunates affected.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 09:31 PM

Thanks, Ake.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 11:08 PM

Bruce Springsteen Backs Gay Marriage in N.J.

"The Boss" is backing gay marriage in the Garden State.

Bruce Springsteen posted a statement on his Web site urging support of the gay marriage bill that's up for a vote in New Jersey's Senate on Thursday.

Springsteen wrote that he's long believed in and has "always spoken out for the rights of same-sex couples."

The native son says he agrees with Gov. Jon Corzine that marriage equality is a civil rights issue.

Gov.-elect Chris Christie is a big Springsteen fan. The Republican has said he would veto the bill.

A state Senate committee approved the bill by one vote on Monday.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 11:32 PM

If it does get enacted into law in New Jersey, contrary to (what word should I use? Well, just fill in your own), the state will not break off from the rest of the continent and sink into the Atlantic.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 11:37 PM

Guest999:"Ake, you got it right--and if anywhere I implied you were fulla 'beans' I hereby apologize."

An honorable person is worth listening to. You've shown more class on here, than most of the know-it-alls!(know-all-o-gists).

There are still those on here who just ignore the FACTS, or spin the FACTS, and think they are changing reality!....only their own.

Hats of to you 999!
Warmest Regards!
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:15 AM

For someone who put in so much time and effort thinking up and writing all those vicious libels about me, the words "facts" and "honorable" ring a bit hollow coming from you, GfS.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 01:48 AM

Don,
Well, finally!.....The thread name is, "RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?"

Actually, it could have been named, "RE: BS: Death penalty for straight families?".....Why?

Because you've done nothing but character assassinate us, all in the course of 'politically correct' liberal bias....Why?

Because you walked away from yours, and your responsibility toward yours...Why?

Because you were selfishly seeking your own capitalistic and self image, and acceptance success....Why?

Because you thought you wouldn't be so bitter....Why?

Because your bitterness blindsided you, by your selfish, self serving, mixed with good ol' greed, and, ever since, you've been bitter about those who seek it, perhaps for the right reasons(like providing for their loved ones, their families), and its hard to look back, and without excuses, and acknowledge that you screwed up.....Why?

Because you still can't admit you were wrong....Why?

Because...well, jeez, you still can't....Why?

Because you'd rather be perceived as 'right', and maybe find a new rationalization for a new excuse...Why?

Because, no matter how many people you think who are convinced you are so wise and 'right', in your heart of hearts, I think, that you think, that you know better...and if you admit to anything you were wrong in, you might have to look deeper, and admit more.

I told you I was routing for you!
Sending you positive thoughts,
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Smedley
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:57 AM

In answer to 999's question a few posts ago: I live in a British city with a very large gay population. There are all sorts of programmes, campaigns, information sources and facilities which target high-risk groups (this category includes gay men but also others).

I have friends who work in HIV-related healthcare and they tell me that many gay men who are HIV-positive now live much longer because of the increased availability of medication (which doesn't of course cure the condition but helps to manage the symptoms). Indeed one HIV-positive friend of mine was diagnosed as long ago as 1990 but happily is still alive & pretty well thanks to the pills he takes.

The only downside of the availability of medication is that a foolish minority young gay men (late teens or thereabouts) think they don't need to worry about adopting safer sex practices because the medication is there and will 'sort them out'.

The cost of the medication is also outlandish - drug companies make *huge* profits out of HIV.

One of the most-at-risk groups these days is men who have sex with men but do not identify as gay (and are often in marriages with women). These people are less likely to access the programmes/campaigns/etc as they don't want to risk being labelled as gay (which I guess they're not, really).

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 04:33 AM

Obama said recently that he might start allowing immigrants with HIV.
Who would pay for their medication?

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 08:54 AM

This debate still going on then?

Why hasn't this god guy struck lightning on the level headed ones amongst us yet then?

The fact that we are still here shows that your god doesn't agree with your homophobia after all.

What are you going to do now? Claim that being gay goes against something other than religion?

I would say such idiots are a pain in the arse but irony never suited me....

Luckily, if we were to tot up the score, more catters seem to be caring humans than god bothering fascists. If there was a god, I would ask him to bless the majority in this debate....

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:36 AM

Being a 'God-Botherer' doesn't make one a fascist, Willie.
That 'God-o-phobic' comment of yours belongs in the same place as the homophobic stuff you're complaining about, it's exactly the same kind of groundless shite.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 09:41 AM

Backwoodsman
Suggest you have a peep at what the 'god-botherers have been up to with Irish children over the last half century.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:01 AM

Sorry backwoodsman, but it does.

I said god botherer. I didn't say person with religious belief. Many of my own family and friends have faith and belief and I do not consider them god botherers.

The term is reserved for those who try to say that their god exists for me too, when of course he does not. Then when you complain that they have influence on everybody's lives, regardless of whether you are superstitious, they claim you are persecuting them.

Groundless shite is what I am complaining about. The groundless shite that says if you have a lifestyle that doesn't concord with a couple of sentences in an over translated 2,000 year old fairy story book, you need putting to death. (The thread of this debate.)

The Irish children situation, as Jim Carroll rightly brings it into this discussion, is not only truly awful but the systemic cover ups over the years by church leaders of the disgusting, tragic and downright criminal antics of some of their employees completely stops their right to moralise to the rest of us. (Moralising aka god bothering)

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: akenaton
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 10:49 AM

I've said this before, but I suppose I better repeat it for those who see this thread as a chance to kick the shit out of religion in general and the Catholic branch of Christianity in particular.
I'm an atheist...always have been, but I know many good people who love and need their religion, most are simply not emotionally strong enough to deal with the horrors we meet on our journey, or the losses we endure.

The Church took the cowards way out over this issue, in failing to confront what was going on.....in many ways organised religion is run like a business.....Keep a clean wholesome profile tho' your ingredients may be toxic, admit nothing and cover up the evidence.

How the Church really conducts itself has no bearing on the spiritual needs or wishes of those who believe in Christ and his God given ability to redeem the evil doers in society
These people are the "religious" not the ones who administer the business, so don't kick them, they are blameless

And remember, when this abuse was actually happening, the Catholic Church, the Pope, even the congregation were all absent.
I most cases, the only people there, were a young teenage boy and a man with a hard on........Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:02 PM

"And remember, when this abuse was actually happening, the Catholic Church, the Pope, even the congregation were all absent."
When will you admit that the church hierarch KNEW about the abuse - facilitated it by passing the abusers on to other parishes (and eventually to countries where, apparently, it didn't matter) while continued to cover it up (right up to the preasent day)?
The abuse goes right through the church like a rotten core - and has yet to be acknowleged, let alone apologised for by the church leaders.
It's true that all this has nothing to do with Christianity - but neither has the church. Tomorrow there will be a 'damage limitation' meeting in the Vatican, which sums up perfectly how 'chastened' the church is regarding its behaviour toward the children of Ireland.
All this - while they church aspired to the nation's moral guardian.....
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:09 PM

"I most cases, the only people there, were a young teenage boy and a man with a hard on"
You conveniently left out the fact that girls were abuse victims; we have yet to learn to what extent.
Oh - and surely god would have been there as well- wouldn't he/she!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:40 PM

Gts, I really have to protest your blathering rhetoric ad hominem instead of ad res. You are really exerting yourself (it seems) trying to assign a whole slough of personal dysfunctions to someone who is a perfectly coherent correspondent. In doing so you are sounding a little less than coherent yourself. You are not sticking to issues, facts or topic.

Furthermore, you are asserting a string of conclusions here which are conclusions absent supporting data.

This makes you sound like an opinionated fathead instead of the thoughtful human and humane person you most likely are.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 01:29 PM

Well glad to hear your opinion, Amos, but in light of the hate rhetoric that's been going on in here, you know what you can do with your opinion!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:08 PM

"the only people there, were a young teenage boy and a man with a hard on."


In which case Ake?


Oh ... no specific case ...

just the one in your imagination that you wish to illustrate for our benefit.

You asked

"Do you want me to draw you a picture?"

I thought I said

"no thank you"


But you seem to think you are the only one who knows what the term "abuse" means.


So you conjure up the image in your mind and work yourself into a froth, and so fuelled take that energy and use it to call Gay people closet paedophiles.

Where is your evidence of this?

999, do you think Gays are closet paedophiles?

Ake does.

If you need to see evidence of this I'm sure either Don Firth or Don T could direct you to the last thread that Ake hijacked with his slanderous bile.

Apologize?

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:13 PM

GfS,

would you mind providing an example of Hate rhetoric? (one from this thread that is)

And while you're at it, perhaps an example of anyone discriminating against families.


You refuse?



I thought you might.


Time for you to waffle on about your refusal being somehow to do with peoples attitudes and nothing to do with the fact that no examples exist.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:28 PM

A bloke in my local pub who, it has to be said, gets his opinions normally from the Gor Blimey! end of the tabloid newspapers, came up with an interesting one last night.

He is not gay, I doubt that he knows anybody who is gay to his knowledge and in general believes the bullshit The Sun prints.....

He was rattling on about the priest situation in Ireland, (he is Irish and was brought up a catholic, but calls himself a failed one.)

He said that his old church has always preached that homosexuality is wrong and the sinners will burn in Hell etc.

"Here we go" I thought...

Anyway, he said that he can't see what's wrong with liking blokes any more than liking blondes as opposed to brunettes, except a bloke would be easier to buy things for.

He then went on to say that although he could never fancy a bloke, he thinks that those who are so hostile towards gay people are so because they are having problems coming to terms with their own sexuality, and that most of them are closet homosexuals who haven't the courage or intelligence to accept it, even to themselves.

Wow, I thought. I have been following this thread on Mudcat and wondering how to address the bigoted minority and here it is! What an extraordinary insight, and from an old soak in the pub at that!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:31 PM

ooops, hit the wrong button

Refuse? I didn't refuse. You were imagining that I would. If you read, and or comprehended my post, I said 'Straight families' You only said 'families'....as in non homosexual families, traditional ones..probably like the one you grew up in, that you resent.

Probably if you weren't dwelling on your last post, before addressing me,...

...."the only people there, were a young teenage boy and a man with a hard on."
Oh ... no specific case ...
just the one in your imagination that you wish to illustrate for our benefit.......


So you conjure up the image in your mind and work yourself into a froth, and so fuelled take that energy and use it to call Gay people closet paedophiles."

I guess you were too excited to understand what I wrote, and meant!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: frogprince
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:54 PM

"claim to want 'tolerance' for homosexuals, but have NONE for those who prefer the traditional nuclear family."

"!.....The thread name is, "RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?"

Actually, it could have been named, "RE: BS: Death penalty for straight families?".....Why?

Because you've done nothing but character assassinate us,"

Gfs: NO ONE HERE HAS EXPRESSED SO MUCH AS DISTASTE FOR TRADITIONAL STRAIGHT FAMILIES, OR THOSE WHO PREFER THEM,
LET ALONE LACK OF TOLERANCE FOR STRAIGHT FAMILIES OR "CHARACTER ASSASSINATION" OF STRAIGHT FAMILIES OR THOSE WHO PREFER THEM.

If, in fact, you really believe that that's what you're reading here, that strongly suggests that you need psychiatric help.

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:07 PM

You're the one who's attempting the character assassination, GfS.

Not only are you a bigot, GfS, you are a vicious—but highly imaginative—liar. You're making up complete fictions about me when, in actuality, you know absolutely nothing about the reasons and motivations involved in what you keep harping on. You know nothing!

I know why you are doing this. You let your motivation for your compulsive gay-bashing slip in the Prop 8 thread ~ and I called you on it. This, of course, tossed a match into your emotional haystack, and that's why you are so frantically trying to discredit me.

Your father married and sired a number of children (including you), and then, according to you, "decided" he wanted to be gay (actually, finally admitted to himself that he was gay) and left the family to go off with a male lover. And this (quite understandably) left you feeling abandoned and very resentful of your father.

This you said yourself.

And judging from the emotionality and general vitriol of your posts, its easy to extrapolate from there.

You have expanded and extended that anger and resentment to homosexuals in general. Then—when it became known that that gender orientation is quite probably genetic, suddenly you became afraid of the genes that you are carrying and embraced the idea that gender orientation is a choice with the desperation of a drowning man clutching anything, no matter how flimsy, that might keep him afloat.

You're terrified that you might be gay. Have you have urges that you might find a bit disturbing? And how long have you been feeling these urges? Since adolescence, perhaps?

This reason for your anti-gay obsession is just a theory, of course, but you--as a counselor--will have to admit that the theory is based on sound psychological principles.

You have cited the work of Richard Cohen to support your idea that homosexuality is a matter of choice and can be cured. Cohen, a "cured homosexual" who, with no qualifications, has declared himself a therapist, attempts to "cure" his homosexual clients by, among other things, cuddling and caressing them (!!!).

You might find this clip interesting. Both video clip and the text of the interview:   HERE. The video clip cuts off early. The latter part of the interview contains some very telling stuff, so I recommend reading that in addition to watching the clip.

Physician – heal thyself! Or accept thyself!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: gnu
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:16 PM

Just checking back to get an idea of what is going on.

Jaysus... trolls are immortal. Don... get out from under the bridge man!

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:16 PM

Don...wow...I mean that is first-order hardball, but, to say the least, more ad hominem than ad res.


Understandable, and forgiveable, under the circumstances. But a duck is still a duck.

The bottom line is this. Regardless of personal preferences, or hypotheses about provenance, there is no reason offered here why intolerance should extend to legal or civil rights, including the right to go on breathing, AND the right to choose and marry anyone you please.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Death penalty for homosexuality?
From: Lox
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 03:25 PM

Ok GfS - I'll let you off finding me evidence of someone discriminating against families.

Instead, I'll ask you to find evidence of someone discriminating against straight families.



I can't help observing that you have made a distinction between straight families and families, thus implying that straight families are different.


I had made the mistake of seeing all families as just families, but thanks to your correction I now see I should have discriminated between "families" and "straight families"


... Hey ... wait ... hang on a minute ... I've found it ... the first post that discriminates between "families" and "straight families" ...

And the winner is ...

From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity - PM
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 02:31 PM


If you read, and or comprehended my post, I said 'Straight families' You only said 'families'.


Well done!