 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Bombing of Tripoli March-April, 2011
|
|
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Mar 11 - 10:30 PM That rant wasn't addressed to you, Steve. It was addressed to people who think Israel and its people have no right to be. I doubt you didn't understand a word I said. I understand your words, and we seem to speak the same language. The purpose of this thread was Libya and what's happening there. How Israel got involved is a mystery to me, but it's not something I can let pass without remark. Israel has NOTHING to do with Libya in the context of what's being discussed. People who wish to slag the country or its people should start another thread and have at it there. imo |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: number 6 Date: 26 Mar 11 - 11:01 PM 999 - I sent you a pm |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Mar 11 - 11:47 PM Thanks, 6. I have answered and I'll phone you tomorrow. Best to you. BM |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:13 AM Purposes of threads have a delicious habit of not remaining what the originator intended. If I had a quid for every thread of mine that got derailed (and that I'd joined in the derailing of) I'd be King Croesus. Libya and Israel are connected in that an awful lot of us scratch our heads at that ready intervention of the west in an oil country whilst similar atrocities meted out to Palestinians are left unchallenged. And don't tell they're not similar. They are not identical but they both cause misery, insecurity and fear for thousands of ordinary families. For the record, I am not one of those people who think Israel and its people have no right to be. I might have thought in 1948, had I been a sentient being at the time, that there should have been no right to an Israel, but we are where we are and I have no patience with Israel wiper-off-the-mappers, Holocaust-deniers, antisemites and similar scumbags. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:36 AM I have no patience for Islamo-fascist scumbag terrorists who cause misery, insecurity and fear for thousands of ordinary families. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Steve Shaw Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:06 AM And who might they be, then? I might suggest, in your response (if you can be arsed) to be fairly careful with your use of "Islamo-fascist." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:42 AM I apologize for losing my rag. Israel might be one of the few buttons of mine that can still get pushed. I've seen too many threads disappear into Israel/Israeli bashing. Sorry. BM |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Charley Noble Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:11 AM Leaping lizards! And creeping crud! So what happens when Gadaffi's forces dig in deep in the next town the rebels try to take, where they can't be bombed out via air power or missile strikes without likely injury to the civilian population? And why haven't Gadaffi forces mined the major roads as they've retreated? Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:17 AM "And why haven't Gadaffi forces mined the major roads as they've retreated?" From what Al Jazeera is reporting, his forces, when overcome by the pro-democracy rebels, are fleeing in disarray, leaving their armaments behind. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 27 Mar 11 - 10:26 AM I have a bad feeling about interfering in the Libyan situation...a very bad feeling...I just hope I'm wrong.. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:34 AM Well you should, Liz. War has become a spectator sport (with NO offense meant to posters here) and there are casualties that sicken us all. TMWATN is very bad news. The scene in the movie Old Yeller where the dog is put down because it was rabid: had to be done, but every kid in North America was in tears because of it, me included. I won't be in tears when TMWATN is dethroned. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:18 PM "War has become a spectator sport..." War has been a spectator "sport" ever since reporters were filing reports from the front lines to newspaper readers anxious to hear of the latest battles and to dissect them at the local watering hole. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: BTNG Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:37 PM war has been a spectator sport since William Russell reported for The Times from The Crimean War and interesting book about war reporting is The First Casualty: The War Correspondent as Hero and Myth-maker from the Crimea to Kosovo by Phillip Knightley |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Charley Noble Date: 27 Mar 11 - 04:25 PM 999- So when I google "TMWATN" i find this phrase: "TMWATN will burn in the nuclear flames of Barneyland's cannibal realms!" Now it's all clear! I was raised with fire arms on our farm but when someone suggested to me that it might be a good idea to carry one while I was working in a remote area of Ethiopia, I wisely decided that was not a good idea. It would have been a good idea to have been more cautious, however, but that is thread drift, and I won't have that! I obviously survived. Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:19 PM Canadian General to Take NATO Command of Libya By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Published: March 25, 2011 at 1:12 PM ET TORONTO (AP) — A Canadian general will take over command of the NATO mission in Libya. Canadian Defense Minister Peter MacKay said Friday that Lt.-Gen. Charles Bouchard has been designated to lead the alliance's military campaign in Libya. Bouchard is stationed in Naples, Italy, at the Allied Joint Force Command. Bouchard's recent job was deputy commander of NORAD, reporting to an American general. "He will be commander of the NATO operations, yet to be fully defined NATO operations," MacKay said. The international coalition confronting Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi has agreed to put NATO in charge of enforcing the no-fly zone. It was still trying to hammer out a deal to relieve U.S. forces of command of all military operations in the country. U.S. President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary Robert Gates have both said that American command of the operations would last only a few days. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:44 PM TMWATN -- the man with a thousand names reference to an earlier post where I mentioned Libya's leader having so many spellings for his name. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:47 PM From BBC "the Benghazi-based Transitional National Council said the rebels could begin exporting oil in less than a week. Spokesman Ali Tarhouni said oil fields in territory under opposition control were already producing more than 100,000 barrels of crude a day. He said the Gulf state of Qatar had agreed to help bring it to market" News reports like this and others that Gaddafi's forces are increasingly turning tail and fleeing as the pro democracy rebels advance closer to Tripoli are signals that the end game may be in sight. We can only hope that it will be achieved with minimal loss of life....Insh'Allah. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Little Hawk Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:36 PM The only reason Mr Kadhafi has "a thousand names" is that we English-speaking and other western people are apparently unable to agree among ourselves on how to spell a name that is written in a completely different script (Arabic) in another language. We don't know how to spell it, although we can all hear how it's pronounced if a Libyan says it! ;-) We all hear the same thing, therefore, but our people end up spelling it 50 different ways. I trust that the Libyans spell it one way, consistently, when they write it in Arabic script. So who does this make the ignorant party here...us or them? ;-D And why should Gadhaffi himself be ridiculed for the fact that WE can't agree on how to spell his name? God knows...there are enough legitimate reasons to ridicule him! But that's not one of them. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 28 Mar 11 - 06:00 AM I know that for fuck sake, LH. Jaysus. Give it a rest. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Charley Noble Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:16 AM As I posted above: "So what happens when Gadaffi's forces dig in deep in the next town the rebels try to take, where they can't be bombed out via air power or missile strikes without likely injury to the civilian population? And why haven't Gadaffi forces mined the major roads as they've retreated?" Too tough a question to wrestle with or am I off-topic? Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Charley Noble Date: 28 Mar 11 - 09:16 AM The latest update from Al Jazeera: "Libyan rebels are claiming to have captured the town of Sirte, the home of embattled Libyan leader, Muammar Gaddafi. Shamsi Abdul Molah, a spokesman for the opposition's National Council, told Al Jazeera that opposition forces had moved into the city at approximately 1.30am last night (local time). "[They say that] they found it an unarmed city. They had no problem getting in there, they did not encounter any resistance," reported Sue Turton, Al Jazeera's correspondent in Benghazi. Celebratory gunfire was head in Benghazi, the opposition's stronghold in the east of the country, as news filtered in of the taking of Gaddafi's hometown. Al Jazeera has not been able to independently verify the report, and the Reuters news agency has quoted a witness in Sirte as saying that the city is still under government control. An engagement between pro- and anti-government forces occured about 30km from the city of Nofilia (which itself is 180km from Sirte), where pro-Gaddafi forces are shelling positions near a large opposition force that was advancing on Gaddafi's hometown. A column of military vehicles was seen leaving Sirte on Sunday, heading west towards the capital, Tripoli." If this news is true, it would seem to imply that Gadhafi's forces are in full flight. That could be a BIG IF. Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: akenaton Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:39 PM Just heard a report from a BBC reporter in Sirte. The town is still very much in Government control....Population seem to be staunch Gadaffi supporters.....green flags in every window. One of the inhabitants when interviewed said, "they can come to talk(the insurgents)and we will listen, but if they come with guns, they will be met with guns" This leaves the NATO terrorists with a slight predicament.....if the insurgents attack Sirte and the civilian population, will the terrorists feel obliged to defend the inhabitants of Sirte by incinerating the insurgents in the same manner as they did Col Gadaffi's troops? You are only allowed three guesses unfortunately |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: melodeonboy Date: 28 Mar 11 - 03:39 PM Sorry for the thread drift, but the question of why we spell Gaddafi's name in a variety of ways is very simple. As Arabic uses a different script from ours and has, for many of its letters, an inexact correspondence to our phonetic system, we transliterate Arabic names into what we think is the nearest equivalent. This explains why there are, for example, so many different spellings of the name "Mohammed". Even by reading Gaddafi's name with a "d", we are actually pronouncing the letter with a North African accent. In Standard Arabic it would be a soft "th" (as in "with"). It also works the other way round. Westerners may find their names spelt differently in Arabic by different Arabic speakers. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Charley Noble Date: 28 Mar 11 - 04:14 PM akenaton- As I cautioned that initial report from Al Jazeera was wildly optimistic. Here's what that press source says now: "Forces loyal to Muammar Gaddafi are resisting an advance by Libyan rebels towards the embattled Libyan leader's hometown of Sirte in the fiercest clashes since the start of a sweeping offensive that has brought a string of coastal towns under opposition control. The rebels, backed by international coalition air strikes, have advanced largely unchecked since Friday but claims in Benghazi, the rebel's eastern stronghold, earlier on Monday that Sirte had also fallen were premature. Opposition fighters are now engaged in clashes about 100km east of the city, with pro-Gaddafi forces shelling their front lines. Fighting is ongoing at Nawfaliya, about 180km east of Sirte, where opposition forces say they have come upon a heavily mined road. Pro-Gaddafi forces have dug into positions near the front line, and are shelling opposition fighters. Al Jazeera's Hoda Abdel Hamid, reporting from the east of Nawfaliya, said: "I've not been able to confirm that there has actually been an advance in the town itself [Sirte]. They [rebels] managed to get really close to Sirte but they didn't get in." "Sirte will not be easy to take," said General Hamdi Hassi, an opposition commander from the city of Bin Jawad. "Now, because of NATO strikes on [the government's] heavy weapons, we're almost fighting with the same weapons." 'We're manoeuvring' Fawzi Bukatif, the commander of the Martyr's Brigade, part of the forces battling Gaddafi, told Al Jazeera: "We're manoeuvring ... we are starting ... we are checking what kind of forces they have there but we are standing at Hagela now - almost 100km from Sirte." Bukatif said the rebels' progress has been hampered by a lack of weapons as they rely on "old Russian weapons". "The ... problem we have is we have run out of weapons," he said. "You know our weapons are traditional ones; the old ones; the Russian weapons. We need ammunition. We need new weapons. We need anti-tanks; we do not have facilities [but] we have the soldiers left behind by Gaddafi ... "If we do have weapons and ammunitions that we need at the moment, we can move strongly and faster." Fresh fighting continued further west in rebel-held Misurata, where rebels admitted that Gaddafi forces had gained control of part of the town after days of heavy fighting and despite air strikes on Saturday by French and British forces. "Part of the city is under rebel control and the other part is under the control of forces loyal to Gaddafi," a spokesman told the Reuters news agency. Rebels dimissed reports that a ceasefire had been declared by the Libyan foreign ministry in Misurata and that anti-terrorism units there had stopped firing at rebel forces. Saddun al-Misrati, a member of the rebels' revolutionary committee, told Al Jazeera: "We rubbish this announcement ... Nothing that they say will make a difference on the ground." Nine people were killed overnight by snipers and shelling by pro-Gaddafi forces, according to a doctor in Misurata, while a resident told Reuters that 24 people had been wounded in mortar attacks by government forces. A Libyan government spokesman claimed Misurata had been liberated. Al Jazeera's James Bays has been following the rebel offensive, which has seen them claim the towns of Ajdabiya, Brega, Ras Lanuf and Bin Jawad. Stretched lines Speaking from Bin Jawad, Bays said it was uncertain where the frontline was. People coming along the coastal road from Sirte said Gaddafi forces were gathered around 60km outside the city, positioned in trees, our correspondent said. The speed of the rebel advance has stretched lines of communications and created logistical problems, said Bays. One problem is a lack of electricity, which means that petrol pumps do not work. "At petrol stations they're using plastic bottles on strings down into the tank below the station to pull up fuel," said Bays. The rebels' advance along the coast has triggered exuberant celebrations in towns along the route such as Ajdabiya with rebel fighters firing their weapons in celebration. But government forces appear to have been withdrawing their heavy armour, rather than engaging with the rebels. There were reports on Sunday of a column of military vehicles, including truck-mounted anti-aircraft guns, seen leaving Sirte in the direction of Tripoli, accompanied by dozens of civilian cars carrying families, according to a Reuters reporter in the vicinity. The opposition's National Council has said it expects a major battle to occur in the area around Tripoli, as opposed to at Sirte. NATO command Meanwhile, international air strikes continued on Monday with British Tornado aircraft attacking and destroying Libyan government ammunition bunkers in the Sabha area of the southern desert, the British defence ministry said. 'Storm Shadow missiles were launched against ammunition bunkers used to re-supply Libyan government troops attacking civilians in the north of the country, including Misurata,' it said in a statement." Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Stringsinger Date: 29 Mar 11 - 12:33 PM We have an imperial presidency; King Obama has declared war unilaterally and twisted the arms of so-called allies to do it. 99 sorties are being carried out by the U.S. The other members of NATO report to American generals. The problem arises when we don't know who the rebels are or why they chose violence over non-violent resistance as was done in Tunisia, Egypt and now Yemen, Bahrain and soon Saudi Arabia. Will these rebels replace a brutal dictator with another brutal dictatorship? When guns and weaponry rule, these means continue into politics. Mass slaughter is done throughout the world in Indonesia (Copasset army), Darfur, Ivory Coast, and human rights violations in China, Saudi Arabia, Israel, and many countries in the world. Why isolate Libya just "because we can."? Obama didn't think this out carefully enough, that is why he doesn't have the support for this effort, has possibly split the peace movement down the center, reinforced Pax Americana in Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, and elsewhere. Ultimately the thousands of lives he claims he has saved may be more costly in human lives down the road. You don't think there will be American "boots on the ground"? Wanna' bet? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 29 Mar 11 - 01:21 PM Well, I watched a few of these 'rebels' last night on the news and I shuddered, because most of 'em looked off their rockers to me. I truly can't see Libya settling down to Tea and Toast if MwaMwa Qu'dafi is blown to Kingdom Come one evening... I think Civil War will rage for many years. I think Uncivil War will also rage for many years, whilst the West tries to gain control of the Oil, which is what this is *really* about, let's face. If they moved MwaMwa and his People to Zimbawbe, then left them there, all killing each other, the West wouldn't bat an eyelid...They'd just shrug their shoulders and go "Mymy, MwaMwa's at it again, deardear" and order another round of cucumber sandwiches, whilst making deals with Mugabe and his People, who of course, they'd moved over to Libya as the second part of The Oily Plan of The New World Disorder...... "TMWATN -- the man with a thousand names" ...coming to a cinema near you very soon............ Sorry, I don't mean to make light of this situation, but it sucks, it REALLY sucks...and the fallout will be catastrophic in the long run, I fear...Hopefully, I'm wrong though... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 29 Mar 11 - 01:33 PM From Stringsinger: "...why they chose violence over non-violent resistance as was done in Tunisia, Egypt and now Yemen, Bahrain and soon Saudi Arabia." This article gives a timeline of the start of the peaceful protest and how it turned into the war that is now. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 29 Mar 11 - 01:42 PM bobad, have you heard when Bouchard takes over command? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 29 Mar 11 - 02:11 PM There seems to be some wrangling among member states about which parts of the mission NATO should assume. Some current info here. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 30 Mar 11 - 09:47 AM As rebels go, this lot really do look a right shower. I can't see that arming them would be any guarantee of their winning. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST Date: 30 Mar 11 - 10:02 AM Poster is Akenaton, who needs to reset his cookie. -Joe Offer-
Arm the insurgents? Surely they must be kidding! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST Date: 30 Mar 11 - 05:34 PM Poster is Akenaton, who needs to reset his cookie. -Joe Offer-
Those who advise arming them, look even more of a shower Mr McGrath. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: bobad Date: 30 Mar 11 - 08:23 PM Gaddafi's foreign minister Moussa Koussa has defected to England. This is not surprising as his body language, while reading official government pronouncements, betrayed his shame and discomfort with the words he was being forced to parrot. It is also being reported that four other of Gaddafi's most senior officials have also defected. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST Date: 31 Mar 11 - 02:03 AM Poster is Akenaton, who needs to reset his cookie. -Joe Offer- It has been reported that CIA operatives have been working with the insurgents for over two weeks. Also that Mr Obama has signed a "secret" order which allows the arming of the insurgents. Looks like civil war and the deaths of thousands is inevitable. For a result which will in all likelyhood, turn out just as Iraq did. Repression of women, government by religious dogma. We are hypocritical terrorists in word and deed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser) Date: 31 Mar 11 - 05:51 AM Apparently Mr Kousa has announced that he 'intends' to sever his links with the regime. Unless, presumably, the regime wins. In which case he's just here for a spot of shopping. I agree, McGrath. The rebels are starting to remind me of the schoolboys in 'Gregory's Girl'. If they're really serious maybe they should try capturing a post office. Worked for Patrick Pearse. Disrupted the supply of stamps in Dublin for an entire week. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Ron Davies Date: 31 Mar 11 - 08:11 AM "I can't see that arming the rebels" would guarantee success. And NATO now says arming them would not be covered by the UN mandate. Brilliant. So let's watch them lose in slow motion-- ( Mudcat hand-wringing expertise again is here again in all its glory.) Rather than doing what needs to be done: Air support all the time--including when they are attacking Gadhafi's forces. Recognizing them as the only legitimate Libyan government. Arming them with weapons at least comparable to those of Gadhafi's forces. Training them. And providing intelligence. And doing all this immediately, Since time is not on the rebels' side. The longer we wait to do all this, the more we will hear about how NATO countries can't afford this, and the more likely NATO will give up. I would in fact hazard a guess that part of Mudcat opposition to helping the rebels militarily is the fact that in the UK the government is Conservative. Conversely part of the reason some US posters support it is that Obama is in charge here. Since if the rebels are finally defeated--with the bloodbath just postponed from a few weeks ago--there will be huge recriminations against the Western governments which did not follow through with actions necessary to prevent it. And those Western governments' popularity with their own citizens will take a huge plunge. Which is just fine with some UK posters. And not fine with US posters--though I think US posters who support the rebels probably do so for the right reasons--preventing the bloodbath and preventing Gadhafi from any claim on the $33 billion frozen--which he would then use to build himself a nuclear bomb, among other things. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Charley Noble Date: 31 Mar 11 - 08:34 AM Ron- There is no easy answer evidently in the short run, since the short run has crumbled once again in the face of trained and more heavily armed Gadhafi forces. "Training them...And doing all this immediately" has its own contradictions. I think what's happening now is the recognition on the part of the US and its allies that if they want the Rebels to succeed they'll have to invest more time and money in training and arming them. It's also possible by demonstrating that resolve (by leaks to the media) that more of Gadhafi's inner circle will desert him, salvaging what they can. Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Ron Davies Date: 31 Mar 11 - 08:39 AM One more thing: Western commentators have to stop talking about how x percentage of the rebels are al-Qaeda fighters. If the rebels lose, who will be there to pick up the pieces? No points for guessing al-Qaeda.--that's too obvious--except to those who refuse to see. If the rebels lose that will drive the survivors--and supporters throughout the world-- right into the arms of al-Qaeda. Look, it's simple: either this is a fight worth fighting or it's not. Our leaders have said that it is worth it. So they have to do what's necessary to win--and we have to support them in this--and pressure them to follow through. And stop whining about it. And perhaps we'll also learn about the problems of war by committee. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Ron Davies Date: 31 Mar 11 - 08:48 AM As I said, time is not on the rebels' side. The time for coming up with objections is over--in fact long gone. Hess defected in 1941. How much longer did the war go on? This one is much more likely to turn out right soon--if the West does what's necessary. We may devoutly wish for the Gadhafi regime to self-destruct. But Gadhafi has told us--more than once--how likely that is. It's time to believe him. And i still say a $10 million price on his head--informally offered to his mercenaries--might well do wonders. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) Date: 31 Mar 11 - 09:32 AM An ex British soldier who served in Northern Ireland was on Radio 4 this morning, he read out an article that appeared in an Issue of the Republican News he obtained while serving over there, this paper was printed by Sinn Fein. It appears Moussa Koussa was a hero of republicans for the part he played when the IRA secured quantities of weapons and explosives from Gaddafi's Libya in the 1980's. It appears he praised republicans for their attacks on the British Government due to their support and assistance of America during the US Air Force's bombing attacks on Tripoli and Benghazi in 1986. Maybe they will take him into their care. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 31 Mar 11 - 10:33 AM "And perhaps we'll also learn about the problems of war by committee." Yeah to that, Ron. A camel is a horse designed by a committee. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp Date: 31 Mar 11 - 11:28 AM Camels find that sort of specist rhetoric quite offensive, Roscoe. You should hear what they say about horses! - Chongo |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST,999 Date: 31 Mar 11 - 12:58 PM Listen up you banana-eating hairy old goat--keep this shit up and I will tell Little Hawk that you're pissing on the parade and HE'LL deal with you! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 31 Mar 11 - 12:59 PM It's quite possible that most Libyans prefer the rebels. On the other hand it is also possible that most Libyans prefer Gaddafi. Nobody in public life or the media seem in the least interesting in addressing this question, or looking seriously at what kind of Libya is likely to emerge if the rebels win. Those are important questions. Either way it's pretty clear that the only possibility of a military victory by the rebels would lie with pretty massive military intervention that would go far beyond trying to prevent civilian casualties - and which would in fact, as in Iraq or Afghanistan, involve inflicting very sizeable civilian casualties. Even if that were seen as desirable, it isn't on the cards. Some kind of stalemate ceasefire probably with a de facto partition seems to be the most likely outcome. Since the oil, and therefore the money, is in the East, that doesn't leave Gaddafi with a great deal to play with, and his prospects of holding on for very long do not seem that great. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Charley Noble Date: 31 Mar 11 - 10:12 PM McGrath- What you are ignoring in your post is how dynamic war fronts are in an environment such as Libya. The nation, what's left of it, is clustered along the coastal highway. And the front can change dynamically back and forth hundreds of miles, as it did several times in World War 2 and as it has done in the last few weeks. There may be a final strawman who breaks this camel's back, and Gadhafi is down for the count. And then there might well be mass confusion of who's in charge of the country then. I don't think there will be a stalemate but the process may take another month to work itself out. It would still be a major political mistake for Western powers to send in anything else but trainers and spotters. I doubt if the Arab League quite has the stomach to send in its own "peace-keeping" force but that would be an interesting twist. Someone needs to re-arm and re-supply the rebels. Charley Noble |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: GUEST Date: 01 Apr 11 - 11:41 AM "Someone needs to re-arm and re-supply the rebels." WHY?.....and who the fuck are the rebels? What do they really want? Are they larger in number than those who support their government. Why is it any of OUR business, when dozens of other dictators who are "friends" of ours, treat their people much worse than Gadaffi? American bombers have already blown Gadaffi's infant daughter to pieces, now we are practicing terrorism against him and his people. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: akenaton Date: 01 Apr 11 - 11:44 AM Sorry Joe :0).....that was me again.....got my N de P fixed. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: pdq Date: 01 Apr 11 - 11:54 AM "American bombers have already blown Gadaffi's infant daughter to pieces..." So when was this supposed to have happened? You don't mean the 1986 retalliation for the bombing of several night clubs that hosted US military in Africa and Europe? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: akenaton Date: 01 Apr 11 - 12:03 PM Exactly so pdq......my point is that we in the developed West, regularly practice terrorism......we hardly own the high ground! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Bombing of Tripoli has just begun From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email) Date: 01 Apr 11 - 12:14 PM 300. Bombs away ! |
