BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 02:37 AM

Nigel.

No, but it should have been important to a self-proclaimed archaeologist. And the period between the pharaohs and Coptic Christians should have been at least 60 years.

Jim doesn't mention that the tour guide proclaimed him or her self an archaeologist. It could have been an archaeology tour guide mis-spelt or auto corrected. Jim may have assumed something incorrectly. Or maybe the tour company got it wrong.

As to the BC thing. Who knows when or even if this Christ person was born?And

If you are going in for Olympic standard pedantry you could at least try to get things right yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 02:49 AM

"Christians could not have taken over from the pharaohs."
Pedantism indeed - the English always did know more than those they colonized, that's why they were 'the masters'
Do you honestly view history as one civilization turning the lights off and handing the keys over to the next occupants as their civilization died off Nigel
It was a figure of speech
The point I was making was how long this sort o thing was going on
I might well have used Henry Vlll removing evidence of Catholicism
Over here we have examples of Pagan sites being either claimed by the church of removed - I'll tell you about our Holy Well sometime
Incidentally - the guide in question was one of several employed by Tomas Cook, whose prctice it was to employ knowledgeable, professionals to make their trips up the Nole 'special'
At the time we went, that was beginning to disappear due to other companies introducing the monster cruise ships that do the trips now
Stop being smug
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 02:56 AM

Could be something as simple as a missed hyphen in Jim’s post. ‘Archaeology-tour guide’ puts a completely different complexion on those three words. A guide for an archaeology-tour doesn’t need to be an archaeologist any more than a guide for a Westminster-Abbey tour needs to be a member of the clergy, or a guide for a Windsor Castle-tour needs to be a member of the royal family.

But, of course, Nitpicking Nigel knows this perfectly well. His comments are nothing more than a red-herring, the typical diversion-tactics of the Right, although he’ll never have the honesty, or the cojones to admit it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 05:49 AM

BWM: Could be something as simple as a missed hyphen in Jim’s post. ‘Archaeology-tour guide’
Changing "archaeologist tour guide" to "archaeology-tour guide" requires more than the addition of a hyphen. And Jim's post (about 7 minutes before yours) shows that it was not a typo.

Jim: Do you honestly view history as one civilization turning the lights off and handing the keys over to the next occupants as their civilization died off Nigel
It was a figure of speech
No, I do not take that view, but your post made it appear that you did. If it was just a 'figure of speech' then it was a poorly chosen one.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 07:10 AM

Stop nit-picking a passing comment Nigel - it doesn't become you
All societies, as they change tend to remove traces of past errors was the real poin - not where I put hyphens
To clarify my archaeologist point once and for all
The now late Thomas Cook was one of the first tour companies, and one of the last to take on the feature of providing authentic information on the places they covered - they gave all the appearance of respecting those countries
I would tend to accept the information given by one of their professional guides, if it's all the same by you - he seemed to know his stuff, at least more than we did about the fascinating history of that beautiful country
I've never really come down from those two weeks
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 07:44 AM

QED. Thanks Nigs.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 07:51 AM

I'm no great fan of the "What we do in the shadows" comedy, but they do have a great idea in

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 07:54 AM

HTML typo there.

... in Colin. To me nit-picking does seem a very Colin-like activity. It is wise to do so on legal texts and official statements to notice when they say 'banned' and when 'not approved', but it is not really appropriate for informal conversation like this.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 08:06 AM

DMcG - it’s what someone does when they have nothing else to contribute.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jun 20 - 10:35 AM

Mudcat has it's 'characters'..

In real life we've encountered genuine obsessive 'nutters'
who do your head in after only a short time in their social company..

The question hanging over our mudcatters like this - is...

Are they for real, with diagnosable disorders,
or only acting like it to deliberately create distraction and disruption...???

..and is it mere coincidence that our most obsessive 'nutters' tend to be right wing...?????

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 10:11 AM


..and is it mere coincidence that our most obsessive 'nutters' tend to be right wing...?????

While I wouldn't go as far as to use the description 'nutter', I can think of at least one person here, straight away, who has declared himself as being left-wing and is most definitely obsessive.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 11:01 AM

Johnson has been forced into the launching of an enquiry into racial inequality in Britain
Amazing what a dead statue will do
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 11:07 AM

From a live feed:
PM urges EU to agree Brexit trade deal by ‘end of summer’

The UK has urged the European Union to reach a post-Brexit free trade agreement “by the end of the summer” as Boris Johnson held talks with Brussels chiefs.

The UK had previously indicated that it could walk away from talks with the EU if the “broad outline” of a deal was not visible by the June meeting. But officials played down the prospect of “drama” at the summit, which was being conducted by video link.

I find that slightly positive, though still think a 'no-deal' most likely. Dropping the bluster of stopping talks and switching all the UK focus to no-deal planning is welcome, as is the implicit recognition of how important a deal is for the UK. The EU stance has barely changed since the outset, so the UK is well aware of what the EU will or will not compromise on. No doubt this will be presented as the UK doing everything possible to get a deal if the no-deal is the final situation, but there are glimmers of opportunities in this.

I insist on saying "no-deal" rather than WTO rules, by the way, because parts of the WTO rules include a dispute resolution mechanism in the evert of disagreements, and at the moment that is not operating. Established deals under WTO rules can bumble along for the most part, but setting up new ones will almost certain require disputes to be resolved.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 11:48 AM

..and is it mere coincidence that our most obsessive 'nutters' tend to be right wing...?????

Only from the viewpoint of the left wing.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jun 20 - 12:01 PM

"Only from the viewpoint of the left wing."
Ask tehe police who got the shit kicked out of them by thugs giving the nazi salute at an anti statues march a couple of days ago
HERE
Would you like to offer a left equivalent Nigel
Right wing thuggery has been on the rise since Brexit - all prooudly claiming to be Patriots
Johnson'a right wing racist nutter - if your party's rotten at the top what else can you expect
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 02:33 AM

i reckon we could/shouldespecially now when right clearly means wrong.   forget the terms left and right. i've supported several groups in my time from swp to scottish socia;ists, snp, (usally in the )labour party and greens. within these i've met many people who are at various points on the political spectrum. - 'left' doesn't really work to describe all those people (especially the labour party)

where you stand on the important issues of the day - the environment, racism, scottish league reconstruction, brexitor the feckless, lying tory government - is not dependent on a left/right analysis.


how about progressive/reactionary

open/closed

decent/selfish

as far as supporters of the far right in government go - fascist/brain dead

.....whatever words we choose it's far more complex in all of us but 'left' is just shorthand

b
('brexitor the feckless' was a genuine typo that i left in as it amused me - a big dumb monster who raoms the land breaking stuff

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 04:33 AM

Ireland is now facing a coaltion Government whose sole purpose is to overturn the people's choice at the last election - a rag-bag army made up of Fianna Fail, a party which has overseen vulture capitalism, Fianna Gael, founded by Nazis, and the Greens - an unknown one-shot lover who has yet to make up its mind what it wants to do about all the problems Ireland has accumulated
Already there is discussion of 'the next election' - hardly hope for the future
The Labour party spectacularly threw way significant gains made by progressive policies and a principled approach by burying itself in a coaltion with the worst - the offspring of the Blueshirts
Some people need hard lessons before they learn anything
I have reservations about the true winners in the last election but we know what they stand for and can choose on thet basis (nobody emerged from 'The Troubles' with clean hands - Britain had the dirtiest of the lot)
Interesting times
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 04:50 AM

"people's choice" and "true winners" ?

I know that you have some weird way of counting votes but that is taking things a bit too far. Under the PR system 75% of the people who actually voted did not appear to vote for them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 07:46 AM

UK could lose right to share security and business data with EU after Brexit, minister admits

James Brokenshire insisted the government remained “positive” that agreement would be reached, saying: “It is self-evidently in the interests of both side that the adequacy decision is in place by the end of the year.”

This is a classic "Prisoner's Dilemma" game: while it might be 'self evidently' best to reach one outcome, reaching that requires a level of trust in the other player that is simply not there and without it you end up in the situation where both players choose an inferior option.   Cummings is reportedly very keen on game theory: it is a pity some other Ministers and back-benchers seem completely unaware of it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 08:31 AM

" Under the PR system 75% of the people who actually voted did not appear to vote for them."
The PR system was devised to ascertain that all voters get a representative say the running of their country - way -way more democratic than the first past the post system that was adopted by the six counties when they decided on a Protestant State'
Nooking at pecentage increases, Sinn Fein would have emerged a clear winner had they been able to afford to enter more candidates - money is the fence they fell at, not popularity
Today's accounting makes them a few points behind the winners, Fianna Fail and way ahead of Finna Gael - The Greens lurk in obscurity, unfortunately, yet they hold all the cards - there is registered opposition to coalition from both of the main parties
The leaders have sacrificed democracy and and national stability at the political expediency altar
After the Labour betrayal I and many historical Labour supporters swore not to vote for them again - I've just added the Greens to that list
I would rather not vote that support the other two
There's nothing "weird" about principles - you need to judge what would have happened on a level playing field
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 02:06 PM

Missed the news but there seems to have been a mjor breakthrough infinding a possibble cure for Covid - it's baan around for ages pparently
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 02:08 PM

Jim - not a cure, but potentially life saving for some recovering patients...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 03:46 PM

Yes, it seems it helps about 1 in eight of the seriously ill. So welcome progress and significant, but it is still a long way from a cure or vaccine.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 04:48 PM

Oxford University found that the steroid dextro... saves the lives of 33% of the most seriously ill.

(don't tell the yanks)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Jun 20 - 04:53 PM

Dexamthasone. Intensol TM
Rx only

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 17 Jun 20 - 02:24 AM

"(don't tell the yanks)"
Don't tell the profiteers either
The Medicine Industry is a prime target for nationalisation - that would sort out some of the major problems of the NHS overnight
On of the most ludicrous things to emerge from the present crisis was that The Tobacco Industry were scrambling to find a cure - not exactly known for its altruism
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 09:07 AM

YouGov survey: 80% reject chlorinated chicken and similar

I emailed my MP about this, and here is my question and his response. It is a follow up to an earlier email:


I am afraid it does not address my question, which I summarise below:
If the government proposes a trade deal which in any way reduces the manifesto commitment to protect the food standards, will you vote against the government to maintain that commitment you made?
=======
His response?
Thank you. You don’t need to tell me to be aware. I know how elections work. I do what I do, explain my reasons and you choose one of the candidates.
=======
Anyone think he will try to protect food standards then?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Jun 20 - 04:25 PM

Katie Hopkins permanently removed from Twitter
Not that I'd heard of her, but from what I now read it's probably the right move.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 06:29 AM

There is lots of talk of reducing the 2-metre rule to 1-metre. It seems to me that in an open area and ignoring the effects of wind, the risk from a given amount of virus will follow an inverse square law: 2 metres is 4 times safer than 1 metre. However the risk is equivalent if the source of infection is four times lower.   So I am comfortable with a 1 metre rule when the number of people in the population infected is around one-quarter of what it was when the 2 metre rule was introduced.

In a confined space the calculations are really complicated, but after a while you would expect the virus to be roughly evenly distributed around the space, and so 2 metre or 1 metres does not really make a difference. Until the uniform distribution is reached, it will be some blend of the two situations.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jun 20 - 08:09 AM

Jeremy Corbyn's brother has been arrested for breachuing lockdown rules by attending a demonstration
Wonder if he'll be sharing a holding cell with Dom and Dummer Scummings - no bets taken
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 05:20 AM

In a confined space the calculations are really complicated, but after a while you would expect the virus to be roughly evenly distributed around the space, and so 2 metre or 1 metres does not really make a difference. Until the uniform distribution is reached, it will be some blend of the two situations.
No, after a while you would expect it to have settled to the floor (or other surfaces). The one/two metre zone is to allow the 'droplets' to sink below face level. The virus does not get a uniform distribution in the air. (as I have understood the science presented so far). This is why there is a greater risk standing face to face, rather than behind or to the side of someone.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 05:40 AM

Whether or not Nigel is right (and I tend to agree with him - I seem to recall that explanation being given by some ‘expert’ on TV when distancing was first introduced) I will continue to try to maintain a 2-metre distance at all times. Where that may not be possible - e.g. when I’m shopping for myself and my wife’s octogenarian parents - I wear a face-covering and disposable nitrile gloves, and I’ll continue to do so into the foreseeable future.

Better safe than sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 21 Jun 20 - 05:54 AM

No, after a while you would expect it to have settled to the floor (or other surfaces).
That is partially true - I didn't want to get into the subtleties of it too much.   You would certainly expect a non-uniform gradient of some kind on the vertical axis and indeed a lot of the virus will settle on surfaces. But it can also settle on dust, for example, and hence remain airborne for long periods, becoming airborne again any time the dust is disturbed.

As I suggested, enclosed spaces are complicated. It would not be uniform horizontally either, because furniture, electrostatic effects, positions of doors and windows and many other factors will all affect things.

The best rule of thumb model I can come up with - and I do not claim anything epidemiological studies behind this, just what 'textbook physics' might suggest! - is a background level plus an inverse square of distance contribution. If the background level is dominant, the inverse square term might be small enough to ignore; conversely if the level is very low, as it typically is in open spaces, only the distance really matters. But the background level varies continuously - each room will be different - and if, for example, to enter a open space you need to pass through a gate, that gate becomes an environmental hotspot.


The point of this ramble is to consider whether I would be happy moving to a one metre separation from a 2 metre one. And the inverse square component suggests to me that the time to do so is when the number of infected people is around a quarter of the level it was when the two metre rule was introduced, because that is, roughly speaking, an equal risk.

Anyone else is welcome to come up with a criteria of their own choosing when they will be happy with a closer distance.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 01:05 AM

I'm still staying in the house, unless I have no choice to go out for some purpose..

But that's been my lifestyle of choice for years..

My concern, is I need to see a dentist asap for a probable tooth extraction,
that's been delayed by the clinic
since they let me down over a last minute cancelled appt in January..

Then they cancelled the rescheduled appt due to lockdown..


oh well... let's see if they answer the phones now...

Toothache is a bastard, so it's a weigh up between either risking sepsis, or covid...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 02:33 AM

twice in recent years i've had painful toothache while in glasgow and received immediate emergency treatment that they wouldn't take any money for. so - go up there! oh sorry, we can't go yet....in itself a major source of pain for some.

as we have learned to mistrust anything that the english government says i won't be rushing back to the pub or anywhere inside for a while. and i'll wait for nicola to advise me on when i can get back up there and see my daughter, friends, central station, botanic gardens, kelvingrove art gallery , tennents bar and the wee curry shop. that'll be great until i can get back to watching partick thistle again - though for a couple of years now that has been the most disappointing part of my trips. we have been shit for 2 years.

apologies - i thought i was on the dentistry/what do you want to do after lockdown/aren't the governments eejits thread.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 02:55 AM

I’m beginning to think this particular thread has run its course.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 04:32 AM

Perhaps, Backswoodsman, but I would not close it. Just let it fall into the depths, and then if something worth discussing happens we can resume posting to it.

Plenty of notable things are happening, of course, both on the virus and Brexit, but most are being reported elsewhere. I only see a point in posting here if either I have something specific to say or would like to hear other peoples viewpoints.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 05:43 AM

Good point, DMcG. Can’t argue with that...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 12:40 PM

yes, it's weird - this thread is just sort of limping along when the political scene is crazier and more volatile than ever. maybe we could just accept that all is up in the air and turn our discussion to where we may hope to be in - say- a year's time. i'm interested in any positive developments that maybe to come. just banging on about self-evident truths about our awful government isn't really any good for any of us.
however, i'm always up for a bit of thread drift, nonsense, light-heartedness and humour.

pete

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 02:09 PM

The problem is, Pete, it’s very difficult to foresee anything good coming from this Government, no matter how long we wait. I really cannot remember a less competent, more corrupt bunch ever.

Perhaps some of the Tory supporters on the forum can give us some predictions of some of the great things we will see over the life of the government. Or even just a few. And I’m asking for something more concrete than ‘Get Brexit Done’.

I’m not holding my breath though.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 02:42 PM

We're all borised out..

Terminal fatigue and torpor has set in
waiting for him to eff up so badly, he gets sacked and replaced..

This lethal buffoon is one of nature's most dogged survivors...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 03:40 PM

John Crace, in His Guardian piece, hypothesises that, not only are the opposition fed up with Johnson, but many of his own party-members are too. I wonder what slogan Cummings will dream up to keep the party faithful onside and save Johnson’s sweaty skin?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 04:29 PM

The government's chief medical adviser has said that a second spike in Covid-19 cases is inevitable if people ignore the conditions that are supposed to apply to the lockdown being relaxed.

Speaking at the final Downing St press conference, Whitty said: 'It is absolutely critical people stick to the guidance that has been given. It's a changed guidance for there are still very significant restrictions socially'
my opinion, based on what i hear from some british people is that there are a number of fools who think it is all over, if that is the case a second wave is inevitable

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 04:36 PM

Replying to BWM: Along with Netanyahu. He's easily as crooked as Trump, and he's been playing this game forever. There's something about people voting in criminals or the totally unequipped"populist" candidates that is really troubling - it shows that our education system is failing to turn out citizens who understand how civics and government are supposed to work. Those were the classes dropped from the curriculum because they weren't charismatic enough, or the one teacher who covered it finally retired and there was no youngster able or willing to take it on.

My disgruntled riff of the afternoon. At least some of these primary elections in the US are showing the worm turning; talented community organizers are coming into their own. I guess they'll be the ones to teach civics to the entire population. (And if you in the UK ever get a chance to hear congress person Katie Porter at work in a congressional hearing, you're in for a treat.)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 05:16 PM

Your right, SRS. But it’s also the power of the Right-Wing media, financed and fuelled by a small group of immensely-rich individuals and their organisations, working on the fears and prejudices of those politically uneducated people you talk about. It’s corruption, pure and simple.

But how to end it is the question. I fear it will get steadily worse - I hope it doesn’t, but I fear it will until, as predicted by Marx, the Capitalist system consumes itself, leading to revolution by the underclass.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Jun 20 - 05:30 PM

It's not capitalism per se BWM. It's the unfettered greed that causes the type of extremes we are seeing. Extremism in any form, be it capitalist or socialist, causes rifts and problems. Balance, compromise, education and understanding are the tools to fix those rents. In my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 01:31 AM

same thing, capitalism encourages greed , unlike christianity as practised by christ or humanitarianism,
    you are entitled to your wrong opinion, Dave; and it is not correct since when has socialism encouraged greed, if this is not what you are saying why bring in a redherring, socialism does not encourage rifts.
    socialism is political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole,
how does that cause rifts, no the rifts are caused by the media who mostly represent the owner class who have a vested interest in dividing people against the community acting together and owning whast they already own,
a genuine criticism of socialism as a poltical philosophy , would be to state that it is dated , because at the time it was written by Marx [the late 19 century] , nobody envisaged that resources were finite. your opinion is half baked twaddle but what is new?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 02:33 AM

"It's not capitalism per se"
I don't agree
Capitalism is a system based on fostering and encouraging a natural greed that is instinctive in most but is suppressed as people mature
A child will instinctively take what it wants rather than share it, until it is taught differently - capitalism is designed to over-ride that teaching
Opposing capitalism is described, by those who support it as "the politics of envy" - a phrase regularly used on programmes like 'Question Time'

Handy summing up here

Michael White Wed 29 Aug 2012
Nick Clegg … just jealous of the rich?
As Tory MPs go, mild Bernard Jenkin wouldn't claim to be an original phrase-maker. So when confronted with Nick Clegg's call for a wealth tax at breakfast time on Wednesday, Jenkin couldn't manage a snappier retort than to accuse the deputy prime minister of "the politics of envy".
The envious idea of chopping the heads off tall poppies can be traced to Herodotus, though the ancient Greek pundit wrote about decapitating tall stalks of wheat. Poppies, wheat, investment bankers, Richard Branson – the idea is much the same.
Nowadays the charge, revived by an American called Doug Bandow in the 90s, is levelled against the left and invariably deployed by the right. It's not hard to see why. For every bloodthirsty Robespierre there must be a million gentle citizens who regard tax-evading millionaires as ripe for the politics of fairness over those of greed.
So when George Osborne cuts the 50p tax rate to 45p (only the poor need cuts to incentivise them) and faces "millionaire's budget" jibes, he accuses his critics of TPOE. When Barack Obama denounces unfunded Republican tax cuts for the rich (a hard charge to deny), he and his "socialist cronies" are tarred with TPOE.
That sounds more admirable than saying that outsourcing American jobs, rigging the City's Libor network, or flogging worthless securities to pension funds deserves vast pay and perks. If talent, hard work, innovation and risk (with one's own money too) were the only road to uber-wealth, there would be less of a growing 99% to 1% problem.
Let's not take Jenkin's word on TPOE. Let's ask Warren Buffett, a man who made billions investing against the free-market herd. Sure there's class warfare, he says. "It's my class, the rich class, that's making war – and we're winning."

Thatcher spent her career attempting to respectableise greed and, to a degree, she succeed
The 'honours system' in Britain is now loaded towards rewarding the greedy (aka "the successful")
Netnyahu and his wife are openly crooks, and they are getting way with their dishonesty, Theresa may and Johnson have openly used taxpayers money to remain in power - Johnson gave a businesswoman a Government grant to get his leg over.
Trump's corrupt companies have cheated, connived and gone bust with the worst of them.... these are world leaders; the most powerful people on the planet
'The Decline and Fall of the Capitalist System' -s a book begging to be written
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 02:38 AM

further more socialism is not as extreme as communism.
as i understood it socialism was supposed to be achieved by democratic means whereas communism has involved violent revolution.
There is also a difderence, not just in the way changes to ownership ofproductiion are realised, but also that under communism, most property and economic resources are owned and controlled by the state (rather than individual citizens); under socialism, all citizens share equally in economic resources as allocated by a democratically-elected government

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jun 20 - 02:39 AM

Read what I said, Dick. Extremism causes problems. You only have to look at the excesses of the extreme left, far right, Islam and Christianity to see that in action.