BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 20 - 07:14 AM

Those two 'ifs', Nigel. That he went to Durham and back is indisputable. The press reports on this are correct. As to if he was unsure he should have got advice. He is wrong either way. If he was sure he should not have gone. If wasn't sure and had got medical advice they would have told him not to go. The only thing that rings vaguely true in his cover up is that he has no friends to rely on. But even then he has enough money to pay for care.

Even if anyone can cast doubt that what he did was wrong he should still have the decency to resign. That is what both Neil Ferguson and Catherine Calderwood did.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 31 May 20 - 08:58 AM

Even if anyone can cast doubt that what he did was wrong he should still have the decency to resign.

Errrrmm, he’s a Tory - aren’t ‘decency’ and ‘Tory’ an oxymoron?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 31 May 20 - 09:16 AM

Caesar's handler, too, should be above reproach?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 11:03 AM

The "test test" rubbish should have been enough to kick him out on his ares on two counts - on breaking his party' own guidelines and on driving that didtance whe n his eyes were playing up
If there was a lw about treating the British people with contempt, he be banged up in the Tower of London years ago with Johnson as a cellmate
There are now more unhappy Tory MPs over this matter than there were at the time of Johnson's Brexit 'Night of the Long Knives'
Some comfort, I suppose
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 20 - 01:12 PM

"he’s a Tory - aren’t ‘decency’ and ‘Tory’ an oxymoron?"

Definitely seems increasingly that way since dom/boris [Doris..???]
kicked out the softer centred tory wets......!!!


BWM - tories habitually resort to 'common sense' for various dodgy reasons..

It's the rest of us who conduct ourselves with 'common decency'...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 May 20 - 01:56 PM

Those two 'ifs', Nigel. That he went to Durham and back is indisputable. The press reports on this are correct. As to if he was unsure he should have got advice. He is wrong either way. If he was sure he should not have gone. If wasn't sure and had got medical advice they would have told him not to go.

The first 'If' was about the accuracy of the press reports (plural), not whether he went to Durham, which was not denied. There were multiple press reports. Not all were substantiated.
As to advice, the comment was about what he should have done if he was unsure. By his own description, he knew what the restrictions were, and believed he was covered by them. In that case, he was not unsure, and no further reference to a 'higher authority' was required.
The response to Raggytash's email is carefully worded. It is a shame others aren't worded so carefully.

And, before anyone asks, I also think Cummings should have gone by now, either by his own decision, or by Boris'.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 20 - 02:08 PM

Nigel - if you've not already watched it,
you might enjoy a 25 min Financial Times video dissection of cumming's
"I'm innocent, Guv.." statement..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0tWyhkoP5c

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 May 20 - 02:20 PM

Just smoke and mirrors to divert us from the real issue then, Nigel. Even though you agree we are right. Like saying "yes, sticking a hot poker up someone's arse is wrong but the correct word is rectum". Come on, everyone knows he was wrong. What does it matter how it is phrased?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 31 May 20 - 03:17 PM

DtG - you might find out in the video I just suggested to Nigel..

Correct selection of precise words can make all the difference.

We can take the P out of "pedantry" [mudcat pedants - no not literally - "edantry"..???],

but some privileged elite folks make a lucrative career out of it...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 31 May 20 - 03:22 PM

Cummings was instrumental in arriving at those restrictions - Johnson's risking his Party's future indicates that he is unable to envisage a future without Cummings's guidance
If a major architect of these guidlines doesn't understand them how on earth can anyone expect the public, with all the contradictory policies that have been put forward and withdrawn, be expected to
This in another excuse Nigel
Where does diving thirty miles to "test my eyes" fit into all this ?
Utter nonsense

Over thirty major cities in the US are now experiencing violent civil disorder after the murder of a black citizen
The U.S. like all countries, is facing massive economic problems once things 'normalise'
America is on of the major alternative trading nations to Europe when Brexit is finalised - is it the future 'safe pair of trading hands' Britain needs to "stand on her own two feet"?
If not - who ?
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 04:44 AM

Where does diving thirty miles to "test my eyes" fit into all this ?
That is why I agree that he should be gone.

Driving 260 miles to protect your child I fully understand, and , were I in a similar position, I might copy.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 05:09 AM

"That is why I agree that he should be gone."
A little more than that Nigel
Your leader needs to answer why he was ever defended after making what was more than an error
Your party is slipping down the charts rapidly - no harm in that - but public confidence in how this whole affair has been thrown into utter confusion by this and far more us-and-them farcical approaches to this pandemic
More than Cummings have to go now - or at lest, justify their actions
A fine mess he's got you Tories in Nigel
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 06:04 AM

”A fine mess he's got you Tories in“

Not just ‘you Tories’ Jim - I wouldn’t give a FF if it was only Tories who had been dropped in the proverbial by Dom & Dumber, in fact I’d celebrate. But the fact is that they’ve dropped everyone in a pile of steaming ordure, because they are interested only in one thing - the Tories’ God, money. And their every move has been designed to protect the money at the cost of human lives.

It’s exactly what you get when you vote on the basis of an individual ‘personality politician’, and a couple of three-word slogans.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 07:30 AM

Sorry Nigel driving 260 miles does not protect the child.

Driving 260 miles leaves the child in very close proximity for several hours to the woman who is suffering from the virus.

A much more sensible approach would be to place the sufferer in one bedroom and instruct the child not to go into that room.

Now guess which is more likely to the child contracting the virus.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 07:32 AM

Posted before checking the last line should have read:

"Now guess which is more likely to result in the child contracting the virus"

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 08:01 AM

He knows that, Raggy, but Tory supporters will defend the indefensible until their last breath. It’s down to the constant feeding of their prejudices that Tory propaganda subjects them to.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 08:21 AM

" in fact I’d celebrate"
Me too if the situation were different
The country ids in chaos of this verus with a Govenment - I hate to thin what would happen if big business or populism took the reins
This lot have to be forced to do the right thing
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 08:38 AM

Sorry Nigel driving 260 miles does not protect the child.
Driving 260 miles leaves the child in very close proximity for several hours to the woman who is suffering from the virus.
A much more sensible approach would be to place the sufferer in one bedroom and instruct the child not to go into that room.
Now guess which is more likely to the child contracting the virus.

So far, so sensible. But if Cummings is also going down with it, who will look after the child (with no contact). He had family in Durham who would do this, and drove while he could. I still understand his actions in going to Durham. If he'd stopped there, there may not have been so many complaints.

The whole subject of Cummings is distracting too much from the actions needed to deal with the virus.

Maybe "Ooh, look Cummings" is getting to be the equivalent of "Ooh look, Labour antisemitism".

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 08:47 AM

The whole subject of Cummings is distracting too much from the actions needed to deal with the virus.

Maybe "Ooh, look Cummings" is getting to be the equivalent of "Ooh look, Labour antisemitism".

True, but it would be easily solved if Cummings was no longer in post. In fact, it is keeping him in post as long as they have that have caused so many difficulties.

"If it were done, when 'tis done, then 'twere well it were done quickly" if memory serves.

As it is, if Cummings left today the first question to, for example, Grant Shapps would be "Well, do you still think his behaviour was right?" They have tarnished many members of the cabinet with this determination to defend him. Johnson less than many others, as it happens, because he has usually put a sneaky caveat on his support if you look closely enough.

I accept it is a really uncomfortable position for the Government, but being uncomfortable is hardly enough justification to let it drop. After all, we learnt on Friday that Johnson rarely reads the scientific papers produced by SAGE, relying on summaries produced, we assume, by the observers from the Government ... oh, look, Cummings again!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 08:54 AM

Cummings has two young nieces up north (17 and 20) who both showed willing to look after the child if the need had arisen. As I see it, it would have been within the guidelines to move them to London (travel is allowed to help a vulnerable person...). That way, at least no infected persons would have been swanning half way across Britain.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 09:01 AM

A lie to far?

I do hope so.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Raggytash
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 09:46 AM

Sorry Nigel, I am not buying that.

Cummings put a young child in a car, a very confined space, with a known sufferer for several hours.

He travelled 260 miles to his parents house. Now I am guessing as he is aged 48 that his parents will at least be in their late 60's or early to mid 70's. That is they are people classed as being vulnerable.

So not only did he put his child in jeopardy he also put his parents in jeopardy.

No if's, no but's, no maybe's.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 10:01 AM

Sorry Nigel, I am not buying that.
That's ok. I'm not selling anything.

Cummings put a young child in a car, a very confined space, with a known sufferer for several hours.
Rather than staying at home with that same sufferer.

He travelled 260 miles to his parents house. Now I am guessing as he is aged 48 that his parents will at least be in their late 60's or early to mid 70's. That is they are people classed as being vulnerable.
Not to stay 'with' his parents, and the intended carers for his child (as mentioned by Steve) were young nieces.

So not only did he put his child in jeopardy he also put his parents in jeopardy.
Only if they (any of them) were making close contact with those elderly parents.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 10:13 AM

No, I don't buy it either. According to the latest figures there as 274,762 cases. I reckon there must be at least one thousand people in that lot who are a couple with a child of a similar age.

Why did few of those not do the same as Cummings, as far as we can tell? (There is no evidence from police reports, for example, that they did, and the reports of emails that MPs received seems confirm that.)

Anecdotally, the people who were in that position that I know arranged local food deliveries and so on from help groups. I have several relatives who do those deliveries in their local area.

For me, it is not enough to say why Cummings did that. You also need to address why so many people in the same position did not. In some cases, it is reported that they were explicitly told by NHS 111 they could not.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 10:24 AM

Except we are supposed to believe one of the most powerful,
vitally important men in our nation,
could not have phoned his employer's office,
or any of his family's network of elite London social circle,
to arrange emergency professional child care while his family stayed at home in London...!!!?????

The correct word for this is.. bollocks...!!!!!!!!!!

How thick does this govt think we all are...????

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 10:55 AM

How thick does this govt think we all are...????

For some, is there any limit?
You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time. (Lincoln?)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 10:59 AM

If they're thick enough to have voted boris in power,
they'll believe any old bollocks he mumbles out at 'em...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 11:24 AM

"For some, is there any limit?"
I think that pretty well reflects the ontempt your Party has for the electorate
People vove based on the information they are given - as that information is overwhelmingly filtered through a right wing, highly manipulated media and what tit-bits of information the establishment sees fit to let us have, intelligent decisions are hardly likely
Brexit was typical of that situation
Had not the business establishment and the press not been divided on the issue as well as the politicians themselves, Brexit would have been a clear winner rather than the pitiful minority of the whole population it was
Thos in charge have now realised that and have unleashed the highly toxic Populist genii out of the bottle
Dangerous days in so many ways (I'm a poet and didn't know it)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 11:26 AM

At the moment the two top most plausible alternatives
to Doris's 'truthful account:..

are:

A] cummings panicked and fled London in sheer every man for himself terror,
like a cowardly 'boo hiss villain' in a disaster movie..

B] The trip up north is a poorly contrived cover story hiding nefarious corrupt business dealings
on behalf of Doris's evil international billionaire corporate backers...

One day will proper old fashioned honest investigative journalism
ever expose
who Doris is really working for to control Britain...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 11:33 AM

" Brexit would have been a clear winner rather than the pitiful minority of the whole population it was"

Really? I don't think so. Of course Brexit might well have been a winner but only a "pitiful minority of the whole population" I take it that you would have found that acceptable?

"If they're thick enough to have voted boris in power" So anyone who votes for a different party than the one you support is either thick or brainwashed or deluded etc etc

Good to see that the "four legs good, two legs bad" outlook is still going strong on this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 11:53 AM

""If they're thick enough to have voted boris in power" So anyone who votes for a different party than the one you support is either thick or brainwashed or deluded etc etc"

That'a a good example of how this argument tactic is deployed by far right internet social media shills...

I said nothing about anyone voting for a political party.
But everything about the populist cult of personality
taking over our govt and politics..

Just like in Europe 80 odd years ago..

Now, they were thick enough to vote for BORIS..


The tory party were desperately cynical to put boris up as their prime contender,
knowing full well the populist vote would be for him as an individual charismatic 'celebrity' personality.

Folks who would never before stoop to vote conservative, did fall for the charms of boris..

Next general election we will find out if the conservative party relied too heavily on the boris fan club factor...???

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 12:01 PM

I think Boris's fan club has already fled, PFR. His approval rating dropped a massive amount over the last few days. It's one thing we have to thank Cummings for :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 12:02 PM

No doubt some did vote for Boris but then I would imagine that some voted for Corbyn.

Personally I think Boris and/or the Tory party gathered a fair few of their votes from Brexit supporters.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 01:45 PM

"Really? I don't think so"
The majority tp leave was less than 4%
30% od the population did not vote
Asa far as the leavers and the stoppers were concerned the result was a forgone conclusion tight up to the announcement - that the remainers would win - nobody can deny that the result was a surprise - even farage did not expect to win - go look at the photographs as the result was announced
The Brexiteeers had every reason to go to the polls - the remainers had every reason not to bother as staying was a done deal
Yes - pitiful minority just about sums it up
I'm afraid
If that hadn't been the case the Tories would not have fought so hard against a second referendum
It really isnn't rocket science R. D.
JIm

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 01:54 PM

London has now joined in the demonstrations against the American killing and it seems to have extended to attacking Trump's demand that more force be used against the protesters
He seems to be on the point of declaring martial law in Washington
Wonder which way Boris will jump
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 02:08 PM

The right wing media will demonise and marginalise any protests
as "militant red mob violence and looting"...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Jun 20 - 02:47 PM

Buzzfeed: We’re Keeping A Running List Of Hoaxes And Misleading Posts About The Nationwide Police Brutality Protests.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 05:53 AM

Without Iains as a provocateur posting has slowed down here a bit

Proof that provoking works

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 06:23 AM

Going back to Jim's post on the Brexit Referendum

According to wiki the turnout for the 2016 referendum was 72.21 % of registered voters and 65.38 % of people of voting age

That does compare favourably with the last 6 general election turnouts of 59.4%, 61.4 %, 65.1 % , 66.1 %, 68/7 % and 67.3 %

Personally I am not in favour of referendums under our present set up. Even the referendum of 1975 was non-binding. I am not sure how it would have gone down if the government had ignored that result at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 07:00 AM

Or to put it another way, 17 million people dragged 66 million people out of the EU. That's an irrevocable change that should have required a super-majority and a minimum turnout for it to pass. Neither of those barriers that we true democrats were asking for (typically a two-thirds majority with a minimum 75% turnout) were crossed. Comparing the result with general elections is invidious. Election results are reversible.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 07:05 AM

A debate - and shortly a vote - is under way in Parliament on whether to allow MPs who are legally required to isolate to vote remotely, or whether the absurd looking 'Alton Towers' ((c) various MPs) queueing system must be used for voting.

I have no doubt a lot of Tories will vote to use the JRM-approved queues, but don't think they have considered what that means. A lot of them are happy to skip the debates and nip down to the lobbies for 5 minutes three or four times a day to cast their vote. That is quite and ego-stroking of their power.

Queueing for an hour a time, so maybe half a day spent standing in line is another matter.

Between these, I would expect the number of MPs actually voting on things over the next month or two to be substantially less than average. And, to me, that damages Parliamentary authority far more than where people are when they vote.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 07:19 AM

General elections have become things you do out of habit rather than expectation
Everybody knows it is an exercise for the dog to the polling booth rather than a hope that the politicians would break the habit of a lifetime by carrying out what they promised before the election
Leaving Europe should have pushed the percentages into the 90s rather than wavering around the lower seventies
Elections are now won on negative promises - this time, getting "Johnny Foreigner' off our backs", captured perfectly by Farage's 'Son of Rivers of Blood' poster - a policy that disgraced its former architect out of politics because he was an embarrassment even to a right-wing party with its roots in racism like yours
Referenda are far more democratic than General Elections have become in Britain - they have made th world a better place for homodexuals, for women and hopefully, for the homeless in the near future
For the former two, see the discrepencies beween the Irish Republic and the little bit of Ieland that still prtends to be British in the N.E of this country (even that is teetering on the point of cjange as the Empire continues to crumble to dust)
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 07:23 AM

Or to put it another way, 17 million people dragged 66 million people out of the EU. That's an irrevocable change that should have required a super-majority and a minimum turnout for it to pass. Neither of those barriers that we **true democrats** were asking for (typically a two-thirds majority with a minimum 75% turnout) were crossed. Comparing the result with general elections is invidious. Election results are reversible.

To be consistent, you should believe the same for the 1975 referendum, for which the turnout was only 64%. Then (under your requirements) there would have been no need for a referendum to get us out, as we would not have confirmed our membership in the first place.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 07:37 AM

The Westminster Governments can hardly have been unaware of such concerns. The referendum on Scottish Independence in 1979 required support of more than 40% of the electorate for any Constitutional change to be effected. Sometimes, it seems, the rules might just possibly be modified in a plausibly defensible way, in order to make the result desired by some just that bit more likely.
How fondly I remember our Own Dear Queen intoning how she could not forget that she was crowned Queen "of a United Kingdom", carefully negotiating the requirement to keep apart from politics. At least she didn't say using bleach might keep you safe from the Hielan' Midgies.

Wonder which Tory sycophants will be fast-tracked to "bracket" The Bould Boris. Looks or voice?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 07:49 AM

Better "majority of" rather than "support of".
("Bracket", I believe, was originally coined when television coverage of Parliament began in Canada, and politicians crowded around the senior ministers either to get their faces seen by their constituents, or to disguise the fact that the chamber was half-empty

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 08:24 AM

Downing Street to scrap weekend briefings due to 'low ratings'

Downing Street is to scrap ministerial coronavirus briefings at the weekend, blaming poor TV viewing figures, writes Andrew Woodcock.
The move comes after ministers were blasted by the UK’s statistics watchdog for “misleading” use of figures on Cover-19 testing at the daily briefings.

====

And here I was assuming the point was to give information about the virus, rather than 'ratings'.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 08:33 AM

In 1975 17,378,581 out of a population of 56.23 million, said they thought that the UK should remain in the EC (as was)

Again, I am not a fan of referendums. The Tories allowed themselves to be sucked into it, one of the reasons being they were worried by Farage.

I always thought it would be close and I never thought it was going to be an easy result for the remain side. It is something that split the country and continues to do so. If we had another referendum now I would expect a close result again. I personally do not think that many people would change their vote.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 09:34 AM

Well I could agree with you, Nigel. I would just say that a decision to join is neither irrevocable nor black-and-white (we could join with conditions, as indeed we did, and Mrs Thatcher strained to maintain that exceptionalism, for example). The decision to leave was irrevocable and meant that there were no terms we could dictate, as we are now finding. We might have been told that there were all sorts of things we can now control. Sadly, it wasn't really true, was it? One little virus...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 09:49 AM

"The Tories allowed themselves to be sucked into it, one of the reasons being they were worried by Farage"
The Tories were led by the nose by Farage and the benefitted from allowing him to play the race card
That particular stunt is about to hit the fan when those protesting now about the killing in America follw the US lead and make it about the increasing level of racism in British society - Brexit has produced a 'dog returning to its vomit' scenario
In addition, an inevitably economically crippled U. S. is no longer going to even pretend to fill the gap leaving Europe has left
People were always ready to change their vote - that's why it was never allowed as an option once the consequences of leaving became clear
Britain did well from Europe and would have done a damn sight better if it had entered in the spirit of co-operation rather than wanting to have everything their own way - a legacy of Empire
The worst aspect of Brexit has been Johnson himself, a racist misogynist, openly lying (before the cameras even) buffoon not even taken seriously by his own party and happily prepared to drop Britain in the pocket of the most dangerous madman on the planet
One of his only positive contributions has been turn the Tory Party into a scrap between two factions - unfortunately, this has happened when Britain desperately needs a united front against a major pandemic - not exactly good timing
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 Jun 20 - 09:52 AM

Forgot to add that I was rather touched when Everton announced they would be offering a gesture of support to the anti racist demonstrations in the U.S.
Pity it was The Blues, but you can't have everything :-)
Jim