BS: UK thread, Politics and political

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:49 AM

I have no intention of prolonging this other than to say that, on several occasions some of us have been accused of objecting to Iain's "politics" - while we may not have agreed with them, I don't think anybody can produce any examples of our asking him to be removed because of his views, nor of asking for them to be "deleted" because of the political views expressed
Here we have an example of his appealing for ours to be deleted because he does not agree with them politically
It is not "Anglophobic" to criticise Government policy - on the contrary - it is extremely sinister to represent the actions or the views of politician or Party you may favour, with the British people as a whole with any political party or political leader - neither speaks on behalf of the whole people - ever
I was born at the time when Britain was fighting a war to prevent that argument from engulfing Europe - we all know the results of what the Political leader we were fighting was attempting to achieve - it's been filling our screens all last week
I suggest we move on
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 04:12 AM

"with any political party or political leader"
Sould read; "with the viewss of the British people as a whole" of course
Shouldn't post before seven o'clock
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 20 - 06:30 AM

Well, I'm back and it looks like not much has changed.

The government is still getting it wrong and some people are still excusing it or using smoke and mirrors to divert attention. Best we can do is just tell it as it is and let everyone make up their own minds.

Looking forward to finding out how BoJo is going to get the economy working, keep people safe and reduce the death count in care homes. I suppose if he fails it will just be down to negative press, Jeremy Corbyn or antisemitism.

:D

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 07:08 AM

Don't forget the Chinese Dave - Trump has already claimed he has proof that they started it deliberately and had threatened revenge
Even if Jonno wants to clear up the economic mess left after Brexit, he has has to learn the White-House tango - The possibly looming economic crisis underlines that
My bet - it's China wot dunnit !!
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 08:07 AM

The Government has just announced that the language of the appeal to "stay at home" has been changed to "stay alert"
They have been confused of causing confusion - other parties will continue to urge that people stay at home
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 20 - 09:34 AM

BBC's Marr stuns Ashworth after blaming Labour for lockdown chaos 'Take responsbility!'
LABOUR has come under criticism for refusing to take some responsibility for the confused messaging around the UK lockdown, as BBC host Andrew Marr pointed at their repeated demands for an exit strategy.

Pretty bad   accusation when it comes from a doyen    of the left like red marr.   I guess the BBC    is finlly realisinng their PARTISAN days are numbered.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 20 - 09:49 AM

3 hours from my saying they will blame Jeremy Corbyn to blaming Labour for lockdown chaos. Is this some sort of record? :-)

Funny how Labour is dead and buried one minute and being a major cause of the governments failure the next! You couldn't make this stuff up.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:17 AM

"3 hours from my saying they will blame Jeremy Corbyn to blaming Labour for lockdown chaos. Is this some sort of record? :-)"
What did you expect
Of course Corbyn is to blame for not obeying HMV - even though it has been pretty well condemned as it was uttered as being "diversive and confusing" - reported by the media even
Mar has condemned Labour for first pushing for a lockdown plan then refusing to accept Johnson's half-cocked idea without challenge
Good job Johnson didn't suggest that everybody pretend the virus was a all a hoax - as he might well have done from his past performance
Mar may have been a "leftie" in his youth but he now describes that as the "indisgressions of foolish" youth, and took a job at the 'leftie', no doubt'
Daily Express to prove it
Some people would try to make political capital out of a Holocaust
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:18 AM

Well the report referred to by the poster at 09.34 AM was from the far-right Daily Express, one of the tabloids miffed by being blamed for propagating the mixed messages that have been coming out lately apropos of relaxing the lockdown, so we can take their gloss on the story with a bucket of salt. Said poster even copied and pasted the headline, neglecting to correct the Express's misspelling of "responsibility." I've watched the clip twice and can see no trace of Ashworth having been "stunned" by Marr's rather circuitous questioning.

And this beauty:

"Pretty bad   accusation when it comes from a doyen    of the left like red marr.   I guess the BBC    is finlly realisinng their PARTISAN days are numbered." [sic]

...is definitely one for the archives! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:20 AM

Impressive, isn't it, how happy some people are to compare how they 'imagine' Corbyn would have handled this, while adamantly refusing to compare our leaders with those other leaders in the world who are actually having the same job of handling it as we are. No, you can't compare other countries. The only valid comparison is our imagination.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:23 AM

As I've said, Corbyn, had he been elected, would have been confronted by the same problems of a health and social care sector that has been dreadfully neglected by Tories for ten years.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: peteglasgow
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:36 AM

given the markedly different approach and competence of the english and the scottish government. and given that the westminster crew wilfully patronise or ignore the other 3 nations - should this thread be renamed 'english thread, politics and political ?'

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 10:52 AM

You may carve that in stone W.M.
The crisis that has become Northern Ireland seems to have been forgotten in all this
The number of casualties up there has led to the suggestion that the border might be closed to prevent a spread to the Republic

Wouldn't it be good is, instead o an undignifed scramble to find a way to blame the parties who have no voice in what is happening, some of the Tory supporters migh, just might just think for themselves and give us their opinions instead of those journalists they are quite happy to dis if they dare suggest the Government may be wrong
I've always expected more from Stanron and Nigel - the more 'Thinking mans Tory' types that are needed to add a bit of thought to these debates
We already know what Guido thinks (or doesn't) without the blogs
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 May 20 - 12:57 PM

An excellent article from Bella Caledonia - “Gaslighting The Virus”.

Although it’s almost a month old, it is no less true now than it was then - indeed, events since 17/4/20 lend even greater authority. No doubt the ‘bend down and take it up the arse from the toffs’ Brigade will be along shortly with their propaganda-induced, in-denial nonsense...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 20 - 01:53 PM

The crisis that has become Northern Ireland seems to have been forgotten in all this
The number of casualties up there has led to the suggestion that the border might be closed to prevent a spread to the Republic

Makes a   good    headline   but   sadly it is   utter poppycock. Perhaps we should close our border instead.

Northern   Ireland 458   deaths
The republic 1458 deaths

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:37 PM

Wouldn't it be good is, instead o an undignifed scramble to find a way to blame the parties who have no voice in what is happening, some of the Tory supporters migh, just might just think for themselves and give us their opinions instead of those journalists they are quite happy to dis if they dare suggest the Government may be wrong
I've always expected more from Stanron and Nigel - the more 'Thinking mans Tory' types that are needed to add a bit of thought to these debates

What I think ( and as it doesn't inform policy it makes no real difference) is that Boris is "damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't".
The only thing that will make a real difference to the number of deaths (from the virus) in UK is whether/when a vaccine is produced. Without one, any lockdown only does what we've been told. "Flattens the curve to avoid overwhelming the NHS". Without a vaccine (but with lockdown) the total deaths will be about the same, but will take longer to 'achieve' (couldn't think of a better term, sorry). If this assumption is correct, then if lockdown can be eased earlier (without overpowering the NHS) then it should be to reduce the fact that the lockdown is beggaring the economy.
Over 70s should be treated the same as the general population (except for those in care homes) and allowed to choose the extent to which they are prepared to expose themselves to risk of infection.
If it is true that children are unlikely to catch/suffer from/pass on the virus then it is pointless ruining their education for no gain.
According to many polls, the UK citizens are already 'scared' of taking advantage of any reduction in lockdown (except for the idiots who believe it can never affect them, who do as they please anyway). Any gradual relaxation of lockdown is likely to be made even more gradual due to reticence on the part of the public.
Someone, somewhere, has to take the decisions, and to my mind it may as well be Boris. During WWII it was Churchill who made the ultimate decisions, and that probably led to him being voted out, but that is a price which would have to be paid if it also happens to Boris.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:47 PM

I see it's now ok to go to work if you can't work from home but the schools are still out and we are not to use public transport. That should be fine. We can just leave the kids with Nanny and get James to bring the Bentley round...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:52 PM

The crisis that has become Northern Ireland seems to have been forgotten in all this
The number of casualties up there has led to the suggestion that the border might be closed to prevent a spread to the Republic

Makes a   good    headline   but   sadly it is   utter poppycock. Perhaps we should close our border instead.

Northern   Ireland 458   deaths
The republic 1458 deaths

C'mon Iains. Be fair the deaths are roughly equal when the relative populations are taken into account:
Northern Ireland 458 deaths/ population 1.8 million
R.O.I. 1458 deaths/ population 4.8 million
NI Deaths per million 254
R.O.I. Deaths per million 303

No massive difference.
But it doesn't support Jim's point either.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:56 PM

Has the right wing media war on teachers unions kicked off
in preparation for boris's plan for infants schools being forced to reopen,
before sufficient PPE is made available to schools...????????????

Obvious answer - YES...!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 May 20 - 02:59 PM

Also..

How many south west seaside and beauty spot locals has boris now condemned to death
by freeing Brummies, Londoners,and other cooped up high risk city dwellers
to drive out for family day trips..

There goes our relatively low death rates...!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:04 PM

Nigel I fully   agree with you. It is said 80%   will catch the virus (Whether true or not is irrelevant) Of those that catch the virus a certain percentage in each country will die.   Only a vaccinne will change this reality and that could be years away. The hospitals have not been swamped, nightingale hospitals have been mothballed.
Logically this means there has been an over reaction and lockdown should be relaxed. It was only meant to protect the vulnerable, not destroy the economy or the foodchain. We have created a monster where people are totally risk averse, a totally ludicrous situation. The statistics determining those most at risk should now be fairly reliable. They are the people that should be shielded, everyone else should get back to work, school and university.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:07 PM

""damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't"."
Sorry Nige - that is neither true nor is it relevant
The Government will be judges on it's performance in this case - even Trump knows this as he has played both sides against the middle by blaming everybody when things go wrong and taking credit when they go right
Neither business nor polls can be of the slightest interest here - the former have made it plain that they are prepared to 'take a chance with the people's lives' to offset a slump - try applying that to a wartime situation and see if it holds up
The polls can only be meaningful if those questioned have access to all the information - otherwise they are replying from a position of ignorance

The only people to have any real say has to be the medical experts otherwise other factors kick in - my opinion, of course

"Northern   Ireland 458   deaths
The republic 1458 deaths"
six counties to 28 you mean
Even the DUP has admitted they have been left dangling
As you say, "utter poppycock"
LATEST
CONRADICTIONS AND CONFUSION
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:08 PM

Has the right wing media war on teachers unions kicked off
in preparation for Boris's plan for infants schools being forced to reopen, before sufficient PPE is made available to schools...????????????
Obvious answer - YES...!!!!!!!!!

As there is not yet a re-start date for schools, it is impossible to know whether PPE will be available when that happens.

From the speech:
In step two – at the earliest by June 1 – after half term – we believe we may be in a position to begin the phased reopening of shops and to get primary pupils back into schools, in stages, beginning with reception, Year 1 and Year 6.

Basic message, don't overreact to what you think you heard.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:20 PM

"If it is true that children are unlikely to catch/suffer from/pass on the virus then it is pointless ruining their education for no gain."

Well maybe you think schools are like fairyland, with no crush at the gate at the school run, no teachers, no cleaners, no canteen staff, no classroom assistants, no caretaker or school librarian, no lunchtime supervisors, no school bus drivers...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:23 PM

"It is said 80%   will catch the virus (Whether true or not is irrelevant)"

Archetypal weasel words. Said by who? And if it is true I happen to think it's bloody relevant!

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:24 PM

Nigel - Reception are the least controllable in terms of social distancing,
[herding cats is a doddle in comparison...]
and amongst the most likely to be bringing and spreading death into classrooms..

The tory far right hate teachers,
maligning them as commie multicultralist brainwashers of British nationalist's children...

This outright prejudice is behind much of far right tory attitudes towards the teaching profession.

There will be much far right vindictive glee at the prospect of teachers & their families
falling ill and dying,
as a result of callous tory govt reopening plans...

The Mail and others will attack and slur teacher's unions trying to protect their members..

You know this to be true...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:44 PM

"will attack and smear.."

effin google voice recognition, and small phone screens...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:47 PM

Looking on the bright side - woefully missing here!!!, there does seem to be a slight upward trend in recoveries.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 10 May 20 - 03:56 PM

Bonz - we all gotta keep our fingers crossed on that...

Over 30,000 dead..

Intensive Care Doctors surely must have learnt something more positive by now,
from that cruel trial and error experience...

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 10 May 20 - 04:21 PM

I am fully aware of the dedication of ICU medical teams. My wife was in the ICU at ST George's Tooting, for some time after surgery for a subdural haematoma, and a nurse was by her bedside 24/7.

I think it will be trial and error for some time to come yet, until a vaccine is available.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 10 May 20 - 04:53 PM

"Northern   Ireland 458   deaths
The republic 1458 deaths"
six counties to 28 you mean
No!
Northern Ireland population 1.882 million
Republic population 4.904 million.

2.6 times the population in the south
3.1 times the death rate.
you are not very good at this are you? It is always best to compare apples with apples. Introducing oranges is but a distraction to try to mask that the argument is lost.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 May 20 - 05:39 PM

I thought some new rules had been brought in during my absence. I don't see much evidence of them being effective as yet.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 20 - 05:41 PM

But he didn't say 81% would get it, as I read that quotation. He said In the (unlikely) absence of any control measures ... In such scenarios, given an estimatedR0of 2.4, we predict 81% ...

So 81% if the R0 cannot be brought down by control measures. That is quite a different thing to saying 81% will get it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 10 May 20 - 05:52 PM

Oh, and why has 'protect the NHS' been dropped from the slogans, I wonder?

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 11 May 20 - 02:21 AM

I had a fairly long ramble on that Andrew Marr comment but decided expressing what I meant would be far too long, so I will stick to the heart of the point.

In Parliament today, under the 'cross examination' of the paper by Keir Starmer, Boris Johnson is likely to make statements that dwarf the confusion of last night's little chat and accelerate the death rate. We will know in something between two and three weeks. If the death rate has risen substantially by then, it will be due to the decisions and statements on these two days. They will not be due to Starmer's interrogation, even though the statements Boris makes will be in direct response to those questions.

The rate will inevitably rise somewhat under any relaxation of lockdown. So let us set an arbitrary definition of 'substantial': I would regard to 33% more than yesterday's number of deaths (465 + 33%) as substantial.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 20 - 02:55 AM

I watched with horror as Jonson's poison chalice of total confusion to the British people was reflected in the interviews that followed - "We don't know where we stand now" was the message that came bounding back loud and clear
The situation has been ade even worse by the fact that it is to be 'clarified' (if that's the word) in stages throughout the week rather than being given in one clear, understandable message
The interviews with the representatives from Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland gave a cler picture of a fragmented 'Disunited' Kingdom - at a time we are told we should - "All pull together" - they made it qite clear they will plough their own individual furrows.
Brexit began the break-up of the U.K. - the pandemic has just delivered the coup-de-grace
Criminal insanity

"Troll posts are still not being moderated."
I think a little leeway is called for here Steve - when someone finds themselves bereft of rational argument a little personal abuse is to be expected with a little mask-slipping
Leave him to dig
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 11 May 20 - 03:07 AM

Troll posts need no moderation if those being trolled ignore them.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 11 May 20 - 03:50 AM

and another expert:
Epidemiologist Professor Johan Giesecke writes in The Lancet…

“… facts have led me to the following conclusions. Everyone will be exposed to severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2, and most people will become infected. COVID-19 is spreading like wildfire in all countries, but we do not see it—it almost always spreads from younger people with no or weak symptoms to other people who will also have mild symptoms. This is the real pandemic, but it goes on beneath the surface, and is probably at its peak now in many European countries. There is very little we can do to prevent this spread: a lockdown might delay severe cases for a while, but once restrictions are eased, cases will reappear. I expect that when we count the number of deaths from COVID-19 in each country in 1 year from now, the figures will be similar, regardless of measures taken.”

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 May 20 - 04:12 AM

Summary of government advice from yesterday

Hold a chicken in the air
Stick a deckchair up your nose
Fly a jumbo jet
And then bury all your clothes

Spitting image, where are you when we need you?

Mind you. I'm not sure if this lot need caracatures.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 11 May 20 - 04:17 AM

That is the second time you have quoted that, Iains. I didn't bother pointing it out last time, but it is not an *article* in the Lancet (which would be subject to detailed assessment before it appeared): it is 'Correspondence', which is not subject to anything like the same scrutiny. In effect, like a letter anywhere, it is the opinion of the author(s), not the result of a formal study. So presenting as 'from the Lancet' is somewhat misleading for the unwary.

He is entitled to his opinion, of course, and as an epidemiologist Professor that opinion carries more weight than yours or mine. But it does not carry more weight than other epidemiologists who disagree.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 20 - 04:17 AM

What happens a year from now will depend entirely on what happens now and what happens now depends entirely depends on the advice the people at risk are given
What was apparent from last night's fiasco was the advice being given was not based on medical considerations but on a calculated risk based on economic considerations - the money men in the cabinet won the day
This is very buch like the military decisions taken during WWI where each foot of land was measured in human lives - the only difference being that the calculated strategies have been replaced by yet another leap in the dark - (Brexit was enough for one lifetime, surely)
My sister in Liverpool summed it up perfectly on the phone last night - "we don't know whether it's safe to go out or not"
I hope Dave's Dr Reid get's to head the tribunal which investigate the behaviour of these prickens
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Rain Dog
Date: 11 May 20 - 04:48 AM

Hopefully we will get some clearer idea later this week. I agree that last nights statement was confusing BUT the general drift of relaxing the restrictions with the proviso of implementing them again if need be, is the way to proceed. Other countries are also relaxing their restrictions, so we are not alone in doing so.

Is it safe to go out or not? Well depends on how you judge safety. Personally I am at risk from more cyclists on the pavement and speeding motorists, though there are fewer cars on the road. In the event that I do get knocked down, I will express my disappointment at their not keeping the 2 m safe distance.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 11 May 20 - 04:56 AM

Once again, the government is showing it has not the faintest idea of how infections spread. Raab has been on the radio confusinf things even more this morning and the government has said, by way of clarification:

Mr Raab, asked if someone could meet up with both their parents in a park, told BBC Radio 4: “Well, you could if there's two metres apart.”

But a government source quickly withdrew the statement, telling The Independent: “They can see both parents, but not at the same time – they would have to see them individually.”


Whether an infected person sees two people simultaneously for half an hour, or one after the other for half an hour each (with or without a gap) makes not a jot of difference.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 20 - 05:09 AM

"Other countries are also relaxing their restrictions, so we are not alone in doing so."
Ther countries have progressed far further than Britain in the fight and came ou only when that believed to do so - not on the suck-it-ad-see basis this mob has
The first and worst hit, China, is now offering help to others - lets hope they are taken up enough before Trump makes good his promise of revenge
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 20 - 05:39 AM

Reports on the radio say that some of those who have opened up are seeing a rise in cases again
Jim

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 May 20 - 06:16 AM

We need a list in words of one syllable of things we CAN and CAN'T do. I've never seen such a shambles. I don't want to know what I should or shouldn't do, I don't want any "advice" about it and I don't want any "if possibles." Should be easy enough for a government that made such a radiant triumph of brexit... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 May 20 - 06:22 AM

Goverment trurn policy lambased in The Times this morning
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sir-david-spiegelhalter-criticises-ministers-over-failure-to-prioritise-random-covid-19-testing-lzv2ttxsc
The both the statistics and the method of gathring them is described as being flawed and the figures claimed could well be much higher

Apologists - one stop forward - NOW
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: DMcG
Date: 11 May 20 - 06:35 AM

I don't want to know what I should or shouldn't do

Nor does Raab.

Apparently the government advice is you can meet one person. Rabb was asked on the radio if that meant you could meet both parents (assuming social distancing)

Yes, says Raab that's ok.

Immediately the government spokesman clarifies, that you can see both, but not at the same time.

This proves
(1) The message is so confusing even the guy you chose to do almost every daily press conference can't understand it.

(2) The government spokesmen doesn't understand that it does almost nothing whatever to your parents' risk of infection if you see them together for 30 minutes, or one after the other for 30 minutes each even with a gap of a day or two (though the latter might increase your risk if you are out more).

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Iains
Date: 11 May 20 - 07:00 AM

Oh, and why has 'protect the NHS' been dropped from the slogans, I wonder?
Because the NHS came nowhere near getting swamped and Nightingale hospitals have been stood down,
The name of the game was:
protect the vulnerable
reduce the spread of infection to levels that could be dealt with.without strain on the NHS.

Stopping infection in its tracks is not going to happen without a cure. Thus far there is not one.

Subject: RE: BS: UK thread, Politics and political
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 May 20 - 07:01 AM

Wanna know about governmental confusion? This is from today's Labour List (hardly a mouthpiece of the rabid left):

Boris Johnson urged those not able to work from home to return to their workplaces “this week”, with the understanding being that this meant Monday. And the government still hasn’t finalised its back-to-work guidance, having only consulted trade unions on an earlier draft that was unfinished and heavily criticised. So much for building consensus, as promised on the PM’s first day back. As Ed Miliband tweeted: “If it was about MPs, chief executives or middle class professionals the PM would never have ordered a return to work at 12 hours notice without guidance or clarity about safety”. Even more confusingly, Dominic Raab has said this morning that people are actually being urged to return on Wednesday, not today. The word ‘omnishambles’ comes to mind.

The PM’s statement did not address the main day-to-day concerns of many. He made clear that sunbathing in the park and playing sports with members of our household would be permitted, but whether we can visit family members while distancing was not mentioned. It has now been clarified that you’re allowed to meet parents in an outdoor space (not a garden) with two metres between you, though Raab and No 10 disagree over whether it is one or two parents that can be met at the same time.

The statement was effectively a declaration of class war. Those who can work from home are more likely to be better paid, and they can protect themselves, whereas those in construction and manufacturing must put their lives on the line so that bosses can protect their profits. I wrote in this email two weeks ago: Labour must help to ensure that workers are protected and prioritised, and that the Tories cannot put private wealth ahead of public health while bringing the UK out of lockdown. But that is exactly what the government is doing.