BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 09:17 AM

Even if found guilty, the appeals process would add 2 more years to this whole fiasco.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 09:37 AM

It’s almost as though his tame, pet judges want him back in the Oval Office again…

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 09:58 AM

The judge he's drawn in this latest indictment doesn't look to be nearly as sympathetic as Aileen Cannon in Florida-
Tanya Chutkan

But I won't rest easy until the slippery bastard is in jail or in Hell.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 10:28 AM

Hell is more likely to happen than jail.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 10:45 AM

Until one of the trials starts, now Trump is just old news. But he'll keep trying to gin up the victimization role to raise money.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: gillymor
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 11:14 AM

We'll see, BW. I suppose it all hinges on whether Americans want to retain their democracy or give it up for a malignant autocracy (without even being aware of it in many cases).

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 03:24 PM

My wife thinks he will die of natural causes before the case is resolved.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 03:45 PM

I can't believe I lost to that guy.
quote: Donald Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 05:12 PM

Sorry, but from over here it looks like he is still the front runner :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 05:53 PM

He's going to stand and he's going to be your next president.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 06:51 PM

You're just a little ray of sunshine everywhere you go, Steve. And it is more annoying here than just about anywhere. He lost the first time (popular vote), he lost the second time (popular vote and electoral college) and he isn't going to win in a third try. You can put money on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Helen
Date: 02 Aug 23 - 07:27 PM

One of the changes that I think will affect voters is the shock and outrage about the attack on the Capitol and on the heart of the U.S. democratic process. Trump may win the Republican selection - I'm not placing bets on that, either way - but he still has to convince the majority of voters in the country to vote for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 02:12 AM

The thing is, Helen, the nutjobs who love Trump don't see that as an attack on democracy. They believe it was an act of revolution against an oppressive regime. And Trump keeps fueling that fire.

Stilly. Elections are not won by majorities. It is the fringe that sway them and the louder or more lunatic the fringe, the more sway they hold. We know - look at Brexit and Boris! Neither were voted for by the majority but we still got stuck with them due to clever populism and pithy slogans :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 05:36 AM

Unless you physically bang him up in jail for a long time*, he can stand and he will probably win. I mean, just look who he's up against. Biden is slow, hesitant, creaky and prone to falling over. You can bet your life that Trump will use all that against Biden incredibly effectively. It'll be looking like Reagan vs Carter all over again. Yeah, there I go again...

*I think I read somewhere that even that might not stop him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 06:37 AM

I do have to agree with Dave and Steve. Trump is, a past-master at pushing Populist propaganda, and there are plenty of gullible Yanks who seem to be addicted to his Kool-aid. Unless the Dems can come up with a stronger, more dynamic candidate than Biden, who seems increasingly ‘past it’, I have a very strong suspicion that Trump is capable of winning next year.

I hope I’m wrong, but I fear I’m right.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 08:27 AM

I expect the nonsense of "elections are not won by majorities" and Trump will win like Reagan over Carter. You can fool some of the people some of the time but not all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 12:32 PM

The Trump folks aren't the majority anywhere, and frankly, I don't think they are the majority of the GOP. They are two things: they are stupidly loud, and they are what the US media focused on when they were looking for stories to increase ratings. Few thought Trump would end up in office the first time. Many thought he'd be shocked at the win and bored at the prospect of politics and would quit. He quickly learned how to turn every customary political practice on its head (it is expected the president will put investments in a blind trust, release tax returns, and stopping running businesses while in office.) He figured out how to skim off the top of any money raised on his behalf (for the coronation inauguration, with his hotel, billing the Secret Service for rooms at his house and hotel, with gifts accepted, and what his kids were doing on the side.) The only reason he's running now is because if he can't delay all of the criminal trials he wants to shut them down.

The January 6 Committee hearings presented evidence provided by GOP witnesses. His own people. And some who testified where much chastened and now convicted participants in the coup attempt. Many of those folks, hundreds, have been charged, convicted, and imprisoned. The word is out and the leaders of the worst of the groups are in prison. Steve Bannon is appealing his conviction. The crooked friends who were advisors are sidelined or laying low. States are charging Trump and his supporters in the fraudulent elector scheme, crimes big enough to put him in prison and he can't pardon those.

Opinion polls don't matter. I don't care that Trump appears to be the GOP frontrunner, or how he stands next to Biden in poll projections. The machinery of the next election isn't running at top speed yet and the grass roots activity is in the background, not something you see from across the pond. So what you think you're seeing from there doesn't matter. The noise doesn't matter.

Trump trashed the Supreme Court and as a result women's rights were taken away. That is the single most important part of the next campaign, to restore women's rights and to reform the Supreme Court. That's not going to happen on the front page of your prefered UK newspapers.

The next big thing the House and Senate need to do is remove Citizens United that lets all of the dark money and corporations influence politics. That needs a more solid majority so that the likes of Joe Manchion and Kristen Sinema can't scuttle much of the work Biden needs to do.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 01:39 PM

Please dog, let SRS be right… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 02:11 PM

I really do hope you are right, Stilly.

It just looks bad from the sidelines.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 02:28 PM

Trump will put on a political defense but a legal defense will be a difficult uphill problem.

Most dictators use hate politics.
Hate-hungry politics have persecuted Jews/religions, Blacks, Women, Tribes, The Handicapped, and now Gays. Shared hatreds unite some people.

Hateful people might eventually hate each other even if they share the need and want to always be the majority race with superior rights and power. I see a splintering of MAGA attempts to outdo cruelty, outdo gun insanity, outdo voter suppression, outdo hate and stupidity in new ways.

I believe most people do not want to live that way.
Love may not trump hate and victim politics, but we are seeing the limits of what the 1% super wealthy and Wall Street can get away with.

There is a blowback of killing the golden goose leaving the wealthy and poor without an economy to exploit.
It looks like Berlin in 1946.

The master race is now the fat naked golfer behind the curtain.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 03:24 PM

I'm slow. I've just come to the conclusion that Trump in the White House is more a symptom than a cause, just as Agent Orange being deployed over Vietnam was (when I used that term for the little offender in question, my subconscious was firing on all six). Consider, gentlecatters:

Congress (from what I can see from this side of the puddle) is terminally polarised, and finely balanced between two irreconcilable parties. The main beneficiary of this is Big Business: corporations lobby hard; each one supports *both* sides with campaign contributions, precisely so that whoever gets in is beholden to them. Meanwhile, while both parties are at each others' throats, they're too preoccupied to regulate Big Business properly (example: the FCC is basically being run now by the cable companies it's supposed to regulate).

And along comes someone who considers himself an apex predator, but who is actually an apex bullshitter. (This perfectly fits into my thermodynamic argument that wherever there's a potential difference, something will evolve to exploit it.) Hilarity, as they say, ensues.

Let there be flames.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Helen
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 03:46 PM

Well said, SRS!

Another indication that his popularity may be waning is the significantly lower numbers of people attending his rallies or protesting on the streets on his behalf.

And there are two other factors which could have influenced his rise to power: his shallow claims to a belief in Christian principles, and his "stardom" on the small screen.

In my opinion, he does not display Christian principles or values in his words or actions, no matter how much he proclaims that he is a Christian.

And actions and words which might be funny or entertaining in a "reality" TV show does not translate into being a good person to run the country IRL.

Also the other Republican hopefuls are treading a very fine line, trying to push themselves as the best candidate without upsetting Trump's (dwindling) supporter base, both the people generally and his financial supporters.

And I'd be interested in solid evidence on the percentage of the U.S. citizens who are "nutjobs" because I suspect that the majority are not.

Donuel makes a good point. Hate divides people, especially when the people who are targeted are put into different categories e.g. by race, nationality, gender, sexual preferences, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Helen
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 03:50 PM

And well said, MaJoC the Filk! (I was typing my post without seeing yours until I posted mine.)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 03:54 PM

> I believe most people do not want to live that way.

Herself has just reported from the telly coverage: A reporter says that many Republican supporters are saying in private that Trump should go. But few if any of them will say it in public, presumably for fear of the others.

This is beginning to sound suspiciously like the comment alleged to have been made by a Russian to an American before the USSR imploded: "Under Communism, we have freedom of speech. In the West, you have freedom *after* speech."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Helen
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 06:37 PM

Former US president Donald Trump pleads not guilty to 2020 election interference

Statement near the end of the article:

"About half of Republicans said they would not vote for Mr Trump if he were convicted of a felony, according to a new Reuters poll.

"But the same poll, taken after his indictment this week, also showed his remarkable resiliency in the Republican primary race.

"He is supported by 47 per cents of Republicans.

"Florida's Ron DeSantis stands at 13 per cent."

Note also the giant inflatable Trump rat in the pic near the end of the article. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN (NO new Trmp threads) 2
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Aug 23 - 07:22 PM

What SRS said ^. Trump's hard-core minions will stay with him, but many of them don't actually believe his assertions, they just 'accept' them...
   Remember "The Emperor's New Clothes"?

He lost by 3 million, then by 7 million... and his choices for Congress and governors in 2022 mostly lost. At the same time, there are many more young folks and black and Latino voters registered- despite the Repubs efforts to stop them. Yeah, he'll still win a few red states, but IF he actually gets on the ballot, I'll bet Biden secretly is glad. (also, remember,"it's the economy, stupid!")

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 02:34 AM

Plenty of hope being expressed here and I desperately want y'all to be right. In the meantime, please don't underestimate our "preferred UK newspapers."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 07:37 AM

My familial lexicon is on the polemic side and is best heard as a near whisper, no shouting. I actually said shared hate unites people,
Trump supporters are told they are victims, Trump says he is a victim and the country is a victim of the woke weirdos. The Trump phrase for the masses is "Don't look backward! LOOK FORWARD."

SRS says Citizen United is important. It allows corporate fortunes to establish a permanent hegemony, the wealthy to buy the Supream Court and drown the voice of unions and real grassroots movements.
I am proud of her insight and her willingness to not oversimplify.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 08:08 AM

"My familial lexicon is on the polemic side and is best heard as a near whisper, no shouting."

Come again?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 08:23 AM

Growing up in my family anything could be discussed. Nothing was off limits. The benefits of slavery could be rationally discussed.
Controversy was not out of bounds. Nothing was off limits academically except discussions outside the family. Perhaps this is why I am more open minded than some folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 08:26 AM

Hypothetical thinking has its benefits.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 08:31 AM

It's probably why I am good at cosmology.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 08:58 AM

Trump must win the election to stay out of jail.
Only a conviction of insurrection would prevent his running for office. He was not charged with that since the prosecution wants to be done before election day. It is possible to run for President from jail but I think we believe that he would be attached to an ankle bracelet instead of actual prison.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 09:16 AM

Yesterday Trump spoke in front of eight flags. Four flags were American flags and four flags were the Confederate Battle flag WITHOUT ANY STARS. They looked like white flags with a red X.

I see a connection with the Elon Musk X. ?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 09:30 AM

Those were flags of the State of Alabama, adopted in 1895.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 09:36 AM

We may be looking at the introduction of the new regime US flag under Trump similar to Hitler changing the German flag to the swastika. It's something easy for followers to make themselves.

Putin uses the letter Z to represent the Ukraine campaign.
Trump might use X.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 09:55 AM

Indeed it is. I wouldn't want to give Trump ideas. :^/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 10:08 AM

Jack Smith has already been back to court because Trump all but threatened anyone who goes against him via his Truth Social site. "Don't break any laws" he was told by the judge. He couldn't manage that for even 48 hours.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 10:14 AM

South Carolina kept the Confederate flag for their State as recently as Obama's Presidency.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 11:12 AM

"If you are coming after me, I'm coming after you."
quote: guess who

"I'm going to slit the throat of government workers"
quote: Ron DeSantis

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 11:29 AM

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/07/alabama-defies-voting-rights-act-supreme-court/674850/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 12:09 PM

Taking a page from President Andrew Johnson's playbook. He was a real piece of work.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 05 Aug 23 - 03:09 PM

Donuel said, "I actually said shared hate unites people". To clarify what I said earlier, that "hate divides people":

Hate can unite the group of people who have a common target, but if there are a number of groups of people who hate different targets then the whole population is divided into smaller groups. It's difficult to unite the whole population in that case to work together as a community.

If the main motivator is love then there is more chance of community spirit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Aug 23 - 04:44 PM

Exploited working-class folks hear Trump say we are victims of government elites and they love that. They loved it to the point of death with anti-vax-horse dewormer-cleaning solutions.

A stern father figure brings out the child's behavior and trust in certain people. Each side sees this as a battle between good and evil.

Anyone who has a high-level government job knows that there are questions one can never ask. There are illegal questions in positions of responsibility. Trump never understood or obeyed that responsibility.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 06 Aug 23 - 07:50 PM

Former US president Donald Trump seeks new judge in election fraud case

"Donald Trump will seek his judge's recusal as well as a change of venue

"Prosecutors filed a protective order prohibiting Mr Trump from sharing any legal materials with unauthorised people

"Mr Trump's lawyer said the actions at the centre of the allegations against the former president were requests, not directives"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Aug 23 - 09:04 PM

I won't guess where psychology and literature overlap, but in American literature, there is an example of the phalanx, or the "group man theory" that John Steinbeck explored in the short story "The Vigilante" (1936), found in his collection The Long Valley. January 6 is as close as Trump will ever come to turning a crowd into an organism to respond to his words. And there was threat of at least one lynching.

This differs from angry riots such as after George Floyd was murdered, when crowds expressed their displeasure en-masse. The goal wasn't to target and kill some individual. Steinbeck's story follows one man who finds himself in a crowd that essentially has a mind of its own and he is pulled along, to a lynching. You won't find Jack Smith using literature to prove his case, but it can be used to examine what Trump tried to create.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 06 Aug 23 - 09:50 PM

Interesting, SRS.

I don't know whether he really cares what the crowd thinks or feels as long as he is the centre of attention. I don't think he cares what actions they take either.

I keep thinking back to that footage of him surrounded by Christians praying over him in the White House. I think he would do anything, say anything to get what he wants. And I definitely don't think he displays any Christian values or principles.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 06:16 AM

Shhh Stilly. Republicans might ban John Steinbeck :^l
The Bible however never condemns slavery so it's OK.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 06:35 AM

I live in a congressional district that is strongly Republican, a Democrat rarely gets elected to anything around here and in the 2016 campaign many of the locals went hog wild for Trump. Since then his appeal has fallen off dramatically, it was waning in 2020 as he lost the popular vote by 7 million and now there are no longer weekend protests of the unfair treatment he's receiving at the hands of congressional Democrats and the Justice Department that occurred regularly at a major crossroads a few blocks west of here. You rarely see a Trump 2024 bumper sticker nowadays whereas MAGA hats and large Trump flags flying on the back of pickups were once a common sight and nobody seems to want talk about him any more, I guess they're too embarrassed and rightly so. His success in 2016 was largely dependent on turnout which included a lot of first time voters and I just don't see that kind of enthusiasm for him any more, which may bode well for congressional Democrats on a national basis.
Just some local observations but I'm getting the impression he's finished politically.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x3 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Aug 23 - 06:51 AM

From my POV the bullying-threatening Trump is ALL about crowd manipulation. It has succeeded in pulling the ignorant and the dregs of society into action. As a result there are warnings like don't poke the bear and don't screw with Trump.