BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 23 - 11:53 AM

A dose of realism in today's Guardian:

Unless Joe Biden stands aside, the world must prepare for President Trump 2.0
Timothy Garton Ash

"The president has had a good run. But the Democrats must choose a younger candidate if Donald Trump is to be kept out of the White House."

In a nutshell, he's saying that Biden is showing his age. He'll be 86 at the end of a second term. In the polls he and Trump are neck and neck and it will take very little to swing the odds in Trump's favour. Biden has done well, but he must now stand aside and let a younger candidate challenge Trump.

That's Garton Ash. This is me: this planet (not just your country) can't afford another Trump term. First, you may or may not be able to stop his candidacy. After nearly three years you still don't seem to know and the sleepwalk continues. Second, old man Biden has a long way to go before November next year and there is too much to go wrong. Where's that younger candidate?

Anyway, I know some of you yanks think that no-one outside the US can possibly know what's going on, but read the piece anyway. It's a good read.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Sep 23 - 05:26 PM

Trump and Biden are for all intents and purposes the same age. A couple of years apart. If Trump can run, Biden can run.

I'll tell you what I tell people every year.

Don't Believe the Polls

They're inaccurate, they don't ask good questions and they don't ask every voter. They're flawed and they have too much influence if people let them. The only polls that matter are the voting booth.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 23 - 06:32 PM

Well they might well be similar in age, but fer chrissake don't deny that one looks a damn sight older and more rickety than the other. This does matter. I wish Joe Biden well, but rest assured that millions of us outsiders look at him and wonder how many more times he'll stumble, fall over, be hesitant, etc., and whether Trump will be honourable enough to cut him some slack in the next fourteen months. I think you know the answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Sep 23 - 08:38 PM

You must be watching the news that tries to find any small wobble and slows or emphasises it and blows it out of proportion.

You do realize that Trump is obese, probably wears a diaper and a girdle, has a hair weave, wears makeup to keep that orange glow, and has a terrible diet? He doesn't get enough sleep and he throws stuff when he's pissed, so a lot broken crockery and new paint around his environs.

Biden exercises at home, bikes outside regularly, eats well, and has a clear conscience. Ok, he needs to do something about the dog (call Cesar Millan, for starters). He looks healthy for his age and he's a damn sight better candidate than Trump.

Trump is a player, always calculating, Biden is kind and smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 08:42 AM

Well that's a good message but this is politics, and populism is far from being dead in your country. You may be right about Trump's nappies and woven hair (he'll deny the nappies, of course) but we know that Bad Things about Trump tend, paradoxically, to strengthen him. Try to exploit them at your peril. Biden has been a good president but there are plenty of supposed weaknesses to exploit. It going to be an interesting few months, and you won't be able to rely on Biden's integrity alone to get him through. A horrid, populist right-winger ousted a mild man of integrity in 1980. Let's hope we are not going to have to say 'twas ever thus.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 11:18 AM

You've said the same jaundiced things several times and have been told it isn't a good reading of the situation.

Man of Constant Sorrow is a parody that Mudcatter gnu shared this weekend.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 11:26 AM

Jaundiced things my backside, Maggie. I've expressed my opinion, right or wrong, in civil tones. You've revealed multiple times here that you think that Brits can't have valid opinions on US politics. Now that's what I could call jaundiced.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 02:11 PM

The polls I have seen are ranking Biden and Trump fairly equal. It seems logical to me for them both to run - assuming that Trump gets the GOP nomination, which appears likely - because it would be an uphill battle for the Democrats to find someone else with any chance of beating Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 03:51 PM

So why haven't they been looking for the last three years? Has no-one got the vision to see that a candidate who looks frail now and who will be 86 at the end of a second term, five long years from now, could well be a liability in an election in over a year's time? I mean, what if he dies or gets really sick, fer chrissake? The age difference between them isn't too far short of a presidential term in length. You can't pretend that that doesn't matter. Listen, I like Biden, I think he's done well and the world feels safer with him at the helm. But there has to be someone else in the frame, at least to fall back on even if they don't replace him. Where is that person? They are neck and neck in the polls now, but trip-ups will wound Biden far more than they will Trump. There's his son and there's his Afghanistan cock-up for starters. Populism and seventy-odd million ignorant people have been set in place to make Trump ever stronger at every trip-up. He seems almost impregnable at times.

Read the piece by Timothy Garton Ash. He's a big Biden supporter, as am I, he's worried, and he's far more savvy in these matters than I am. I don't think you'll find anything "jaundiced" in his piece, whether you agree with him or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 04:49 PM

There you go again. That "Afghanistan cock up" is Trump's - he set it in motion, intentionally, during his administration so it would land smack on the next guy.

Stop borrowing trouble. Harris is a talented and able vice president. If she becomes president through Biden's departure - voluntary or not - she will do a good job. I worry more about the people who are fussing about Biden's age than I worry about Biden's age.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 05:57 PM

James Carville agrees with Steve. So does Bill Maher. Gavin Newsom is biden his time. We don't want another Ruth Bader Ginsberg fiasco.
But who knows, Joe could outlive Carter's age.

If Trump goes to jail they will have to do a cavity search where they are likely to find Sean Hannity.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 06:10 PM

SRS, I like Harris, and I totally agree with everything you said about her.

Looking at the campaign through the perspective of marketing (i.e. business management-speak) I think that Biden has a good chance of getting re-elected but to start up a whole new person as a potential successful candidate when Biden is currently doing a good job in the role (in my opinion, and in the polling results) is not a good marketing strategy.

I think that if Biden is re-elected then Harris stepping in, for whatever reason, is a good strategy but trying to get a woman elected, straight off the blocks, is not likely (in my opinion) due to ingrained beliefs that "a woman can't do the job". Not just male voters, but some female voters have that belief as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 07:01 PM

Kamala Harris is simply anonymous, and from this end, very disappointing.

Trouble is, Maggie, while we all know here that Afghanistan was a Trump thing, the ignominious and chaotic withdrawal happened on Biden's watch. Suppose Trump makes a big thing of that in the next campaign. How many of his tens of millions of fans would blame him and not Biden? You and I are in a tiny minority when it comes to that digging and delving that ends up with our putting the ball into Trump's court in that regard. Let's not live in a bubble. Ultimately, it's what your electorate decides, not what you and I can live in hope with. By the way, when you say "there you go again," you are parroting the words of Reagan vs Jimmy Carter. I'm amazed that you'd lay yourself open to be tarred with that particular brush...

Over here we have news sources as good or better than yours, and we cognescenti (:-)) can dig and delve. I don't look at questionable sources and I try really hard to not suffer from confirmation bias. I'm sure you're the same, but please stop thinking that only yanks can get a grip on US issues. Seventy-odd million of you haven't yet managed it, have they?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 07:10 PM

By the way, when I say that Kamala is anonymous, I'm not saying that she's ineffective or useless or that she isn't doing a good job. Not a bit of it. But we are talking here about not having Trump as your next president. As it seems that your justice system will be incapable of dealing with him, we need really good people to be upfront and putting the moral case. I look forward to seeing more of her. At the moment, we foreigners don't actually know who she is.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 09:47 PM

Is the smiley face next to the word "cognoscenti" because you don't know how to spell it?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 07:14 AM

I do know how to spell it (watch out when it comes to picking me up on spellings, by the way). I got my knickers in a twist over the brackets and symbols and concluded in the end that trying to put a smiley face inside brackets is not a good idea. Once I'd got that right, more or less, I moved on without doing the spelling correction. I knew it was wrong as soon as my post appeared. I'd usually send another post to correct an error like that, but my name's already popped up too many times in this thread's recent post list (who's going to disagree?), so I refrained on this occasion. Oh, and it doesn't help that I'm currently in a tangle with my optometrist with regard to my reading glasses prescription. I'll publish the address for sympathy cards to be sent to later.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 10:15 AM

How can I say this in a way to get you off of this one nerve you are insisting on poking and repoking? We hear what you are saying, BUT WE DON'T AGREE. Harris may be unknown to you, I don't know most of your politicians.

I knew exactly what I meant, knew Reagan said it, but Reagan doesn't own that phrase.

Move on. This topic is about Trump's indictments, it's not about what you forecast as doom and gloom regarding the failure of the US population to completely get rid of Trump in our political landscape. We're working on it. Move on.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 11:02 AM

I've already moved on but you want the last word. See my previous post. My opinion of your politicians is hardly any different to yours. I'm talking about how your electorate is going to see things, not you and I. And your recent bullying tone appears to make you sound like you're treading on free speech. Please don't do that. We know you don't like Brits commenting on your politics and that you think we can't read the news properly. You've made that perfectly clear. I note that you haven't made even the slightest reference to the thoughtful piece by Timothy Garton Ash. Another Brit, eh, just one who happens to know a damn sight more about all this than you and me. Did you even bother to read it?   I'm moving on now. Please don't delete this then have the last word again, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 11:04 AM

Finally (really!), read my lips: you are not getting rid of Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 12:30 PM

When people are even the slightest bit right, but for the wrong reasons, they are basically wrong overall.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 01:32 PM

Let's see what the jury hits him for in his fraud trial.

The State of New York wants $250,000,000. His former "fixer," Michael Cohen, believes that $500,000,000 is possible and appropriate.

On the other hand, they could award $1.00.

Trump insists that all the fraudulently obtained loans were fully repaid, and that "There were no victims!" That's powerful stuff if you like Trump.

If Trump's fine is minimal compared to what the state is asking, it'll be a big win - and a very ill omen.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 01:47 PM

The Trump defense is 'everybody does it'. That excuse doesn't even work if you are stopped by a cop and you say 'Everybody was speeding'.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 02:50 PM

Steve, we know how good your precognitive skills are, but it ain't over until the fat orange man sings.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 05:43 PM

Well what does that mean. Never mind.

Fraud isn't going to get Donald Trump. I think we all know that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 06:36 PM

By the way, we can all comfort ourselves by calling him the orange one, fat, stupid, he wears diapers, he uses makeup, his hair is fake, his diet is terrible, he'll hate jail, etc. It's all just words. None of this is in any way serious enough criticism for his tens of millions of supporters to ditch him. No way. Another line of attack is needed. Court cases will go on for months and years, and he's fixed your Supreme Court, just in case he decides to take his appeals there. Fraud cases will get us nowhere. Charges of offences against the state may do. Maggie says it's about getting rid of him. Sure. But there's no serious discussion here of how we an actually do that, and the world is watching.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 09:44 AM

The WP had a Trump real estate calculator for people to try on their own homes. Ours came to 17 million.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 10:06 AM

The most slick witness in the Fraud trial against Trump will be Trump. He is famous for his Freudian slips. His Freudian slip-and-slide is like a HUGE polluted water slide. His trials will all be Freud Trials.

The rule of law and the Constitution are our democratic weapons of choice. Perhaps Steve is suggesting something more expedient and final

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 10:40 AM

The judge in the case isn't allowing video of opening and closing statements, but is allowing still cameras in the courtroom. Smart photographers will use mirrorless cameras that don't make a shutter noise to distract the subjects of the photos.

The Orange one has put in an appearance today, seated front and center in court. Someone must have told him that a blue tie is appropriate for court, he doesn't have his signature red over-long tie. This morning's MSNBC talking head is suggesting that if people could watch the trial then Trump's folks can't leave the courtroom and put their own "martyr" spin on the proceedings. They can see the judge being fair, etc. But after the first few photo ops before things begin, that isn't going to happen. I'm sure there will be lots of reporting from people who listen closely.

Rachel Maddow does her weekly appearance on MSNBC on Monday evenings, so I'll be tuned in to see how she views the events of the day.

You asked what people are going to do to get rid of him. Direct action as far as registering voters is a big part of it. Flipping a few seats in Congressional districts that support him will have the added effect of being able to undo damage he did in his only term. Prudent people don't wish for harmful or illegal things, especially not in writing (unlike his supporters who think violence is a tool to accomplish what they need.) Joining effective pro-voting groups and emboldening Biden supporters (who last time around felt targeted if they put political signage in their yards. Trump supporters vandalized homes and signs in 2016.) Helping people get to the polls. Working at the polls. The list grows.

Subject: RE:warning these are just words...
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 10:55 AM

I have found the least likely people to change their minds tend to be die-hard Trumpists. The reason has something to do with feelings of victimization, anger, vengeance, and psychological issues. I am not surprised by those who choose to cling to and enjoy a 'dangerous' leader who calls for retribution.

From their victim's point of view, they feel a gross injustice that must be corrected by any means.

I'm not just talking about Trumpists.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 01:24 PM

Turns out it's a bench trial - by Trump's choice.

The judge is the jury. This a.m. Trump called the AG a "racist horror show" and Judge Ergeron a "rogue judge," both of them part of the "greatest witch hunt of all time."

So the monetary judgment should be pretty hefty.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 01:25 PM

I think you'll find that if the GOP could get a reasonable person as their candidate (not a Trumper from political fantasy land) everyone could relax into a normal campaign.

Think of someone who served on the January 6 committee. I don't like many of the political positions of Liz Cheney on various issues, but she is principled. Romney the same. Adam Kinzinger. They're normal conservative politicians who understand how government is supposed to work.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 03:13 PM

One has to be in deep denial - or ignorance - to refer to MAGAs and their ilk as "conservatives."

Dwight Eisenhower and John McCain were conservatives. So - despite obvious flaws - was Ronald Reagan.

Compare Trump and his followers with any one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 03:22 PM

Lighter, SRS was referring to non-MAGA politicians, people who were prepared to act on their principles:

"Think of someone who served on the January 6 committee."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 03:56 PM

What does he hope to achieve by publicly criticising the judge during the trial? On the basis that he does nothing without hoping to gain something, what will he get from this?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 04:24 PM

I wonder if he’s trying to intimidate the judge, Dave? He’s a bully by nature, perhaps he thinks he can bully the judge into going easy on him?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 04:53 PM

Yes, Helen. I was making a different point.

Cheney, Romney, and Kinzinger are not of the MAGA ilk. But the MAGAs are firmly in the GOP saddle, and C, R, & K have no influence on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Helen
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 05:03 PM

Oh sorry, Lighter. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 05:50 PM

I had a conversation with a psychologist friend this weekend, discussing the difference between personality disorders, such as sociopaths, versus brain and chemical disorders such as schizophrenia or bipolar conditions. You can't "treat" personality disorders except for trying to teach some skills through lots of therapy and practice. Trump has no empathy, he's not going to learn it or be shamed into exhibiting it. He has a martyr thing going now, he collects grievances and acts out against those he considers his tormentors. He rarely listens to his attorneys when they try to get him to stop slamming his victims and the prosecutors and judges.

He belongs in jail. Without a phone or a computer.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 07:42 PM

TYRANNY OF THE MINORITY is a book about using intimidation and outrageous rhetorical tactics. As Trump targets Judges, AGs, opponents and law enforcement it fuels his followers to attack 82 year olds with a hammer, shooting up FBI offices or commit other cowardly acts.

A few laws would be curative. Get rid of the Electoral College. In 1969 we came within a handful of Senate votes to abolish the Electoral College.

Make registering to vote mandatory at 18 so that voter suppression would no longer work.

Make white supremacy political parties illegal just as we did with the Communist Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 08:13 PM

The Trump Supreme Court is back in session and will decide if domestic abusers may buy guns. They could decide that guns have more rights than women. We shall see. They will also decide if physicians and experts in government agencies will decide on medical issues like abortion pill availability or if lower court judges will decide.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 09:32 PM

Besides the skating rinks, six of Trump Place residential buildings in New York City’s Upper West Side dropped his name in February.
And his Trump SoHo hotel (also in New York City) removed the president’s name in 2017, spurring a full financial recovery from a prolonged slump.
Two other Trump hotels?—one in Toronto, the other in Panama?—dropped his name in 2017 and 2018.
The SoHo, Toronto and Panama hotels are no longer doing business with Trump, while the Upper West Side condos still have a contract with him.
Multiple reports suggested that the properties cut ties with Trump because in a divisive political climate, the association was hurting business.
The Panama hotel, however, accused the Trump Organization of evading taxes a year after ending their business relationship.
Key background: Trump’s iconic skating rinks are located in the northern and southern ends of New York City’s Central Park. But he doesn’t own them. Instead, Trump leases them from the city, a long-held arrangement held over from when he took over their reconstruction in the ’80s. Trump famously got the project done on time and under budget, the Post reported, helping to solidify him as a reputable businessman.

Tangent: Since Trump began his 2016 presidential campaign, his estimated net worth has dropped by $1.4 billion in Forbes’ ranking of billionaires. Polarizing politics were partly behind the decline, costing Trump an estimated $200 million at last count.

The Chicago Trump Tower International Hotel still has its name on it.
The Tribune has called for the name to be jackhammered off. The top floors are still owned by RUSSIAN oligarchs.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 07:19 AM

This piece in today's Guardian reveals a ray of hope (without having to mention the colour of Trump's face and other irrelevancies that might cheer us up but which get us nowhere). Trump may think he's playing to the gallery of his supporters but the steadfastness and sanity of the various layers of the judiciary could be his ultimate undoing. Before you get to the end, if you didn't know already the author is an eminent American, not a know-all Brit. Robert Reich:

There’s reason to feel a bit more secure about the strength of American democracy, notwithstanding Donald Trump’s escalating threats.

For one thing, a large bipartisan coalition in both chambers of Congress has beat back the House Maga Republicans’ attempt to shut down the government.

This was a major defeat for Trump, who had called a shutdown “the last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me and other patriots”.

Americans should also feel encouraged by the tenacity of judges and prosecutors in holding Trump accountable, notwithstanding his threats.

Ever since his first indictment, Trump has attacked with increasing ferocity the judges and prosecutors who have tried to hold him accountable – calling them “deranged”, “thugs”, “hacks”, “corrupt”, “biased”, “disgraceful”, “radical”, “unAmerican”, and worse.

To their credit, judges and prosecutors have not wavered.

They have set strict timetables for Trump’s criminal trials. They have refused Trump’s many motions and appeals. They have ruled against Trump in the civil lawsuits against him and meted out tough penalties.

Last Tuesday, Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling in a civil lawsuit brought by New York’s attorney general, found that Trump and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used to secure financing.

As punishment, Engoron ordered that some of Trump’s business licenses be rescinded.

Trump lashed out: “The widespread, radical attack against me, my family, and my supporters has now devolved to new, un-American depths, at the hands of a DERANGED New York State Judge, doing the bidding of a completely biased and corrupt ‘Prosecutor,’ Letitia James,” Trump wrote.

As Trump’s attacks on judges and prosecutors have worsened, prosecutors and judges have responded forcefully.

On Friday, the Colorado district judge Sarah B Wallace, overseeing the first significant lawsuit to bar Trump from the 2024 presidential ballot – on grounds that the 14th amendment explicitly bars from office anyone who has sworn an oath to uphold the constitution and has taken part in an insurrection – issued a protective order prohibiting parties in the case from making threatening or intimidating statements.

Judge Wallace said the order was necessary to protect the safety of those involved – including herself and her staff.

Meanwhile, Jack Smith, the special counsel overseeing the justice department’s prosecutions of Trump, has requested a gag order against Trump. Smith linked Trump’s ominous rhetoric to threats against prosecutors, judges and potential witnesses.

“The defendant continues these attacks on individuals precisely because he knows that in doing so, he is able to roil the public and marshal and prompt his supporters,” Smith said in the court filing.

One day after he posted “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING FOR YOU!” a woman called the chambers of the US district judge Tanya Chutkan, who has been assigned to the election fraud case against Trump, and said that if Trump is not reelected next year, “we are coming to kill you”. The woman was later charged with making the call.

The top prosecutors on the four criminal cases against Trump – two brought by the justice department and one each in Georgia and New York – now require round-the-clock protection.

Smith himself – whom Trump has described as “a thug” and “deranged” – has been a target of violent threats. His office is spending $8m to $10m on protective details for him, his family and senior staff members, according to officials.

Since its agents carried out the court-authorized search of Mar-a-Lago in August 2022, the FBI has seen the number of threats against its personnel and facilities surge more than 300%.

A Trump supporter wearing tactical gear and armed with an AR-15 tried to breach the FBI field office in Cincinnati. He failed, fled and later died in a shootout with law enforcement.

Trump is escalating his threats and provocations. Even if one or two of his followers act on them, the result would be tragic.

Merrick B Garland, the attorney general, recently told Congress that Trump’s demonization of judges and prosecutors threatened the rule of law. “Singling out individual career public servants who are just doing their jobs is dangerous – particularly at a time of increased threats to the safety of public servants and their families,” Garland said.

Garland then added: “We will not be intimidated. We will do our jobs free from outside influence. And we will not back down from defending our democracy.”

America owes a great debt of gratitude to the judges, prosecutors, grand jurors and prospective jurors who refuse to be intimidated by Trump’s threats, and who will not back down from defending our democracy.

While the mainstream media continues to treat Trump as a politician rather than a peril, normalizing his dangerous threats, the nation’s judges and prosecutors are protecting the rule of law.

They – along with Saturday’s bipartisan majority vote in Congress against Maga extremists – give some hope that the fever of Trumpism may be starting to break.

[Robert Reich, a former US secretary of labor, is a professor of public policy at the University of California, Berkeley]

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 07:55 AM

P.T. Barnum had a valid point when he said "There is a sucker born every minute". Fortunately, there are good people born within the rest of that minute.

The Trump base are the suckers and would join the firing squads to execute our; Generals, journalists, democrats, minorities, Judges, law enforcement officers, and even women and children, ALL by order of Commander and Chief President Trump. It has happened before as I have warned since I was 13.

This time I believe we have the Institutional guard rails to save lives.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 10:07 AM

Robert Reich has played the role of Cassandra ever since Trump started running for the office. I follow him on several of the social media sites. His pithiest pieces appear on the Substack blog and as occasional editorials and the New York Times or the Washington Post.

Trump's appointees to the Supreme Court aren't there just to take away women's rights, they're also there to enable more oligarchs to retain their wealth. One of the first cases of the session has to do with the funding of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau; the payday lenders (who end up charging massive interest on their loans) and other scammers want the bureau gone, so are trying a backdoor method to get there. If Trump loses all of his properties we should not be surprised to learn of Trump Payday Loans in the near future.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 10:15 AM

The best Reich can say is "a bit more secure" and "some hope."

Meanwhile Trump keeps rising in the polls. Literally. No politician in my lifetime could have gotten away even once with what he gets away with almost daily.

Court findings have had no effect on either him or his 80,000,000 followers.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 10:55 AM

At least Robert is part of the resistance. My family is part of the resistance in ways available to us outside of silly social media. We write handwritten postcards to Republicans in Georgia, Ohio and some other states prior to elections. The questions and hopes expressed are not strident but one of friendship and explanations of why we care. So far the number of cards sent are less than a thousand but we are not alone. We buy postcards from Amazon with themes from the universe to pictures we think might be saved. We will never know about actual results but even small efforts can have positive effects.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 11:31 AM

I've written my GOP congressmen several times. Sometimes I get a polite response telling me gently I'm an idiot. Once I got quite a strident one (even more clearly a form letter) swearing that the inviolability of the Second Amendment was sacred ("I will not lift a finger to infringe upon the rights of my constituents.")

Mostly I hear nothing. Why, when you have an overwhelming Trump base, waste a staff member's time on somebody who'll never vote for you anyway?

We used to have a Republican senator who was pretty mild on Trump. In reply to an email, one of his staffers actually called us on the phone to discuss an issue briefly. We were impressed. (Of course it wouldn't have happened if his boss hadn't needed votes, but that's just built in.)

Our conservative senator declined to run for re-election, because his weakness on Trump had turned his constituency dead against him. His successor doesn't have that problem.

Keep those cards going.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 11:41 AM

I also write postal mail and faxes and emails to my Congressional representative and US Senators.

Again . . .

Polls Are Meaningless

That is all.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 12:11 PM

It depends on the polls you're talking about.

Polls saying that Trump's matches or beats Biden's right now doesn't prove that he'll win or even be nominated.

But polls (like the 2020 election) that show his incredible popularity, which seems not be declining in spite of everything so far (adjudicated sexual abuse, adjudicated decades of fraud, admission of stealing nuclear secrets, a call for General Milley's execution) surely tell us something about the public that's far from "meaningless."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 12:14 PM

What polls do is convince people who do pay attention to them, who aren't skeptical about the questions asked, who did the asking, or how they were phrased, that their vote can't possibly matter. They discourage people from voting.