BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Oct 23 - 10:54 AM

Infighting is so unattractive, and as entertaining as it can be for a couple of days, it sets an even nastier tone for the rest of the term. Meanwhile, the current avatar of public petting doesn't want her buddy Matt kicked out for being a douche: Lauren Boebert said it would be 'childish, vengeful' for Republicans to remove Matt Gaetz after he led McCarthy's ousting.

Politico sheds light on the Trump for speaker discussion: How Trump was talked into — and out of — a run for speaker

Just hours after Kevin McCarthy was deposed as House speaker, the “draft Trump” movement began.

“I called him and I said, ‘Sir, I’m nominating you for the speaker of the House,’” said Rep. Troy Nehls (R-Texas), describing a Tuesday call to former President Donald Trump. “I said, ‘I think that you would do a great job fixing the brokenness we see in the Congress.’”

So began a wild 48-hour scramble that saw Trump openly pondering a quixotic bid to become the first nonmember to be elected speaker before his political advisers and House allies managed to convince him it was a terrible idea.

The Trump-for-speaker bubble officially popped early Friday morning, when he took sides in the brewing battle between Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) and Majority Leader Steve Scalise (R-La.).

Meanwhile, ever since Trump's petulant departure from the courtroom on Wednesday midday the trial has gone much smoother. And even though Trump is still trying for delays to postpone the inevitable, today some some of his executives testify.

The biggest nugget to hit the news yesterday was the over-sharing that Trump did with the Australian rich guy, who then went and told ~80 people about US nuclear submarine strategy and how close they could get to Russia undetected. Putin is saving a lot of money on spys now that Trump has been in office and after. As noted, this is a separate crime that could be charged, but in terms of proving, more difficult since it is a he said/he said kind of testimony involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Oct 23 - 10:54 AM

The court itself was going to delay the dissolution of the Trump properties in anticipation of an appeal, so that isn't news for anyone. But Trump will spin it as a victory.

I'm of the opinion that the only reason Melania is still married to Donald is because he's so busy going to lots of places away from wherever home is this time of year that he's not interfering in her part of the house. If he finally stops running for office, I'm betting she's out of there, though I wonder if she has managed to set aside any of those millions to live on later? Past Presidents have means to make an income, but I don't know if that applies to all past first ladies. Michelle Obama and Hillary certainly landed on both feet financially, but they have skills. Laura Bush was always the helpful spouse (though she did work as a librarian right out of college.) Jimmy and Rosalynn travel as a pair in everything and have enough, but Melania would never be content to live in a small house in a small town like Rosalynn Carter.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Oct 23 - 10:09 AM

I think you have that in reverse. The American Taliban ("Christian" Nationalists) have emboldened terrorists around the world. Trump did that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 23 - 12:17 AM

Judge in Trump's New York fraud trial explains why there's no jury

Trump has complained that he didn't get a chance for a jury. The judge says no.

Engoron is presiding over the bench trial of a $250 million lawsuit filed in 2022 by New York Attorney General Letitia James, in which she accused Trump, two of his sons, their company and other executives of years of widespread fraud. Engoron said that in paperwork certifying that the case was ready for trial, James' office checked a box suggesting it be a non-jury proceeding.

Trump's team had 15 days to oppose that, but did not, Engoron said, because there was no point in doing so.

"It would not have helped to make a motion. Nobody forgot to check off a box," Engoron said.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 23 - 12:22 AM

He's also a total ass when it comes to maintaining a diplomatic and presidential demeanor regarding the atrocities in Israel:
‘Netanyahu let us down’: Trump chides Israel just days after attack
Subhead: His meandering remarks were the most extensive since the deadly weekend attacks.
Photo cutline: Donald Trump didn't use the word “Israel” until almost 20 minutes into his speech, after criticizing his 2024 GOP rivals and praising supporters.

PALM BEACH, Fla. — He criticized Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and called Hezbollah “very smart.” Both less than a week after the attack on Israel.

It was, as billed, a speech about the atrocities abroad. In the most Trumpian way possible.

Speaking to more than 3,500 supporters at a Palm Beach, Fla., convention center, former President Donald Trump spent nearly two hours recounting how he helped move the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem and boasted about signing the Abraham Accords, which formalized diplomatic relations between Israel and the United Arab Emirates and Bahrain.

But he also meandered among various topics, zig-zagging from the weekend terrorist attack in Israel that has captured the world’s attention to criticisms of his GOP rivals, crime in Washington, D.C., boasts about rising in the polls despite multiple indictments and even mentioned the assault on former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s husband, Paul.

Throughout his speech, Trump, who leads his GOP presidential rivals, painted a picture of an alternate universe he thought would have existed had he been reelected in 2020 instead of President Joe Biden.

“Israel would be flourishing, they would have no problem,” he said. “Iran would have never played that game.”

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Oct 23 - 07:39 AM

Sez Trump about his personal troubles: "I think most people get it" and "This is a terrible thing that is happening to our country." (That's even larger than a Royal We when he=our country)

Trump demands ‘full apology’ from Forbes after dropping off wealthiest Americans list

He just doesn't get it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Oct 23 - 01:37 PM

Liz Cheney has been cautioning about the state of the Democracy should Jim Jordan be elected Speaker. And I've seen chatter about people nominating Cheney herself - you don't need to be in the House to be Speaker (there's no rule that says you have to be, though I don't know if they've ever elected someone from outside before.) This has to be chapping Trump's hide.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Oct 23 - 11:42 AM

Another week, another Trump gag order under consideration. This time Judge Chutkan in Washington, D.C. Updates from the New York Times.

The Guardian isn't behind a paywall.

Trump has so much more wiggle room than any other other human being in the US because of candidate status and the mischief he can make about his political speech. But his gangland speech, that needs to stop.

A federal judge is expected to consider on Monday whether to impose a limited gag order on Donald Trump in the criminal case over his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election, potentially restricting what he can say about potential trial witnesses and prosecutors.

The decision for US district judge Tanya Chutkan at the hearing, scheduled for 10am in Washington, comes with unique challenges given the potential for Trump to test the limits of a protective order or even flout it outright – opening the explosive sanctions question of whether to jail him in response.

Since Trump was charged in August with conspiring to obstruct the peaceful transfer of power, prosecutors have complained in court filings that Trump has made dozens of prejudicial statements that could intimidate people from testifying against him at trial and poison the jury pool.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Oct 23 - 11:05 AM

Another one bites the dust.

Sidney Powell Pleads Guilty in Georgia Trump Case
Ms. Powell, a lawyer who pushed baseless theories about ballot fraud in 2020, is the second defendant to accept a plea deal in the election interference case.

Sidney K. Powell, a member of Donald J. Trump’s legal team after he lost the 2020 election, pleaded guilty on Thursday morning to six misdemeanor counts instead of facing a criminal trial that was to begin next week. She was among 19 defendants, including Mr. Trump, who were indicted in August for their efforts to subvert the election results in Georgia.

Ms. Powell, 68, who appeared in a downtown Atlanta courtroom, was sentenced to six years of probation for conspiracy to commit intentional interference of election duties. That is a significantly less-severe outcome than she would have faced if found guilty of the charges for which she was originally indicted, which included a violation of the state racketeering law.

She was also fined $6,000 and agreed to pay $2,700 restitution to the state of Georgia, as well as write an apology letter to its citizens.

Prosecutors said in court that Ms. Powell had given them a recorded statement on Wednesday as part of her plea deal. She has agreed to testify against any of the 17 remaining defendants. Ms. Powell has also agreed to turn over documents in her possession related to the case.

She got off light.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Oct 23 - 02:42 PM

Another one bites the dust:

Trump co-defendant Kenneth Chesebro strikes plea deal with Georgia prosecutors
As jury selection was beginning, Judge McAfee said a deal had been negotiated.

The first trial to have been conducted in the Georgia case is now moot - Powell dropped out yesterday, Chesebro today, so the possible risk of all of the evidence against them being aired and the other defendant trials that come later being able to benefit from that is gone, at least for now. None of the other trials have dates yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Oct 23 - 11:12 AM

And now it's 5. Judge Chutkan also gets to preside over his voter suppression trial based on racist claims of fraudulent voting by non-whites.


https://www.alternet.org/trump-black-voters-judge-chutkan/?utm_source=Iterable&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Oct.18.2023_1.05pm

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 07 Sep 23 - 03:39 PM

And if 30% of all eligible voters in the right states vote for Trump, and 29% vote for Biden, Trump wins.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Sep 23 - 05:18 PM

Just out:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/judge-rules-donald-trump-defrauded-202326707.html

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 26 Sep 23 - 06:00 PM

Helen, there are five more charges outstanding.

Moreover, the jury will also have to determine the amount, if any, of the fine.

Meanwhile, the judge's order to dissolve the Trump Organization and tokeep Trump and his sons from running any other corporations in the state is nothing to be sneezed at.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 01:32 PM

Let's see what the jury hits him for in his fraud trial.

The State of New York wants $250,000,000. His former "fixer," Michael Cohen, believes that $500,000,000 is possible and appropriate.

On the other hand, they could award $1.00.

Trump insists that all the fraudulently obtained loans were fully repaid, and that "There were no victims!" That's powerful stuff if you like Trump.

If Trump's fine is minimal compared to what the state is asking, it'll be a big win - and a very ill omen.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 01:24 PM

Turns out it's a bench trial - by Trump's choice.

The judge is the jury. This a.m. Trump called the AG a "racist horror show" and Judge Ergeron a "rogue judge," both of them part of the "greatest witch hunt of all time."

So the monetary judgment should be pretty hefty.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 03:13 PM

One has to be in deep denial - or ignorance - to refer to MAGAs and their ilk as "conservatives."

Dwight Eisenhower and John McCain were conservatives. So - despite obvious flaws - was Ronald Reagan.

Compare Trump and his followers with any one of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 04:53 PM

Yes, Helen. I was making a different point.

Cheney, Romney, and Kinzinger are not of the MAGA ilk. But the MAGAs are firmly in the GOP saddle, and C, R, & K have no influence on them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 10:15 AM

The best Reich can say is "a bit more secure" and "some hope."

Meanwhile Trump keeps rising in the polls. Literally. No politician in my lifetime could have gotten away even once with what he gets away with almost daily.

Court findings have had no effect on either him or his 80,000,000 followers.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 11:31 AM

I've written my GOP congressmen several times. Sometimes I get a polite response telling me gently I'm an idiot. Once I got quite a strident one (even more clearly a form letter) swearing that the inviolability of the Second Amendment was sacred ("I will not lift a finger to infringe upon the rights of my constituents.")

Mostly I hear nothing. Why, when you have an overwhelming Trump base, waste a staff member's time on somebody who'll never vote for you anyway?

We used to have a Republican senator who was pretty mild on Trump. In reply to an email, one of his staffers actually called us on the phone to discuss an issue briefly. We were impressed. (Of course it wouldn't have happened if his boss hadn't needed votes, but that's just built in.)

Our conservative senator declined to run for re-election, because his weakness on Trump had turned his constituency dead against him. His successor doesn't have that problem.

Keep those cards going.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 12:11 PM

It depends on the polls you're talking about.

Polls saying that Trump's matches or beats Biden's right now doesn't prove that he'll win or even be nominated.

But polls (like the 2020 election) that show his incredible popularity, which seems not be declining in spite of everything so far (adjudicated sexual abuse, adjudicated decades of fraud, admission of stealing nuclear secrets, a call for General Milley's execution) surely tell us something about the public that's far from "meaningless."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 12:54 PM

Or else that it's vital for them to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 03:04 PM

The polls I pay attention to are those cited by the major news outlets. They identify all those variables, including the question, the polling organization, and the margin of error.

Professional pollsters take a stratified random sample of about 1,200 people. And, yes, that's enough to give a good ballpark estimate. The key is that the sample population be representative of the whole: random (everybody has an equal chance of being polled) and stratified (every subgroup of the population is covered). If properly conducted, the margin of error is about +/-3% 95% of the time.

Consider that polling in 2016 indicated Clinton would probably be elected. In fact, she did win the popular vote, which is what most of the polls were measuring.

As for the electoral vote, polling showed both candidates within the margin of error, i.e., the election could go either way. As it turned out, Trump won more than Clinton because of the geographical distribution of the votes.

Possibly the biggest caveat about polls nowadays is that people are now more likely to give false answers because they think the polls are rigged by the Fake News and the Deep State. Another is that caller ID keeps many people from answering the phone.

There are statistical methods that can minimize such bias in the sample.

A well conducted poll isn't infallible, but it's far from meaningless.
Even in 1948, when most polls had mistakenly predicted that Dewey would beat Truman, a swing of only about 1% in California, Ohio, and Illinois would have given him the victory in the electoral college.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 04:58 PM

I've heard Trump compared to Jesus by his apostles (Trump's apostles) several times.

Now check out Trump's latest post:


https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-shares-surreal-courtroom-sketch-094724195.html

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 04 Oct 23 - 07:57 PM

It's this bad:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/clarion-call-arms-experts-why-094501341.html

Sorry to say I know somebody like this. Highly educated too and otherwise a very decent human being.

It defies easy understanding.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Oct 23 - 08:09 AM

We'd best keep our facts straight.

There have been a very few murder attempts by MAGA fanatics, but none was at Trump's suggestion.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 23 - 07:54 AM

Under a Republican Party rule adopted in 2005, Trump is not eligible to be speaker:

"Rule 26—Temporary Step Aside of a Member of Leadership who is Indicted (a) A member of the Republican Leadership shall step aside if indicted for a felony for which a sentence of two or more years imprisonment may be imposed."

But let's see if they change the rule....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 23 - 10:28 AM

Trump now says he wants Jordan.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 23 - 11:16 AM

If enough first-hand witnesses say "He said," then he said.

Glimmer of hope: Nothing Trump tells anyone can be believed. Whatever he revealed was probably garbled and exaggerated.

But investigation is clearly needed.

What else has he divulged? And to whom? And did he hand out any documents?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 23 - 03:30 PM

The Trump campaign doesn't deny it, just says he did nothing wrong (because of "context") and always insists on (wait for it)...

"Truth and transparency."

Yesterday Trump retweeted a post claiming that the judge in his fraud case was swigging gin from a bottle during the trial.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 06 Oct 23 - 06:27 PM

When I heard his promise that "It will be wild!" I bet my wife 2 to 1 that's exactly what they would do.

Unfortunately I was correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Oct 23 - 05:24 PM

You don't get indicted for this stuff, but if you're running for president, probably you should:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-shows-love-hannibal-lecter-042941582.html

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 07:41 AM

Dare I say it? Yeah, course I dare - 1,000! :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Oct 23 - 04:24 PM

I wonder if he’s trying to intimidate the judge, Dave? He’s a bully by nature, perhaps he thinks he can bully the judge into going easy on him?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 07:27 PM

Going back to the substantive, here's a Brit view of recent Republican shenanigans from the Guardian:

Donald Trump stayed away from Wednesday’s Republican candidates’ debate in Milwaukee. Yet he remained the evening’s dominant presence. The former president’s poll lead among Republican supporters for the 2024 US presidential contest is so strong that he could afford to do this. His absence deliberately belittled both the televised event, as he simultaneously gave an imperiously misleading social media interview to Tucker Carlson, and his eight challengers, who were left vying to impress in a fantasy “What if?” contest over the choice for a party not in fact dominated by Mr Trump.

Absence also allowed Mr Trump, on the eve of his latest court appearance in Atlanta and now facing 91 felony counts in four separate criminal cases, to avoid offering himself as a target to his eight rivals. Not that he need have worried about that. Most of them went out of their way all evening to pay him repeated homage. No one did this more shamelessly than the Ohio entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy, who told the audience both that Mr Trump was the best Republican president of the 21st century and that, if elected, Mr Ramaswamy would instantly pardon him for whatever he may have been convicted of in the meantime.

By identifying deliberately with Mr Trump’s outsider status, Mr Ramaswamy did two things. He made a bid to be Mr Trump’s running-mate next year and he also separated himself from the platform’s professional politicians. These seven all see themselves, with varying degrees of credibility, as the alternative candidate to Mr Trump. Their shared problem is that the party shows little sign of being interested in such a person. Certainly not in the former vice-president Mike Pence, whose certification of Joe Biden’s victory in January 2021 was supported by most of his fellow candidates but remains heretical to Trump supporters. And probably not in the Florida governor Ron DeSantis either, who entered the debate as the nominal chief rival to Mr Trump but who once again did relatively little to cement that claim.

Maybe you yanks don't see it in quite the same way, or maybe (as has been expressed here more than once) you think that we Brits don't get it because we don't live over there (and presumably don't get our info from Fox News). Thing is, we see Trump as a world issue, not just a US domestic issue, and we're worried.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 23 - 11:53 AM

A dose of realism in today's Guardian:

Unless Joe Biden stands aside, the world must prepare for President Trump 2.0
Timothy Garton Ash

"The president has had a good run. But the Democrats must choose a younger candidate if Donald Trump is to be kept out of the White House."

In a nutshell, he's saying that Biden is showing his age. He'll be 86 at the end of a second term. In the polls he and Trump are neck and neck and it will take very little to swing the odds in Trump's favour. Biden has done well, but he must now stand aside and let a younger candidate challenge Trump.

That's Garton Ash. This is me: this planet (not just your country) can't afford another Trump term. First, you may or may not be able to stop his candidacy. After nearly three years you still don't seem to know and the sleepwalk continues. Second, old man Biden has a long way to go before November next year and there is too much to go wrong. Where's that younger candidate?

Anyway, I know some of you yanks think that no-one outside the US can possibly know what's going on, but read the piece anyway. It's a good read.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 29 Sep 23 - 06:32 PM

Well they might well be similar in age, but fer chrissake don't deny that one looks a damn sight older and more rickety than the other. This does matter. I wish Joe Biden well, but rest assured that millions of us outsiders look at him and wonder how many more times he'll stumble, fall over, be hesitant, etc., and whether Trump will be honourable enough to cut him some slack in the next fourteen months. I think you know the answer.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 08:42 AM

Well that's a good message but this is politics, and populism is far from being dead in your country. You may be right about Trump's nappies and woven hair (he'll deny the nappies, of course) but we know that Bad Things about Trump tend, paradoxically, to strengthen him. Try to exploit them at your peril. Biden has been a good president but there are plenty of supposed weaknesses to exploit. It going to be an interesting few months, and you won't be able to rely on Biden's integrity alone to get him through. A horrid, populist right-winger ousted a mild man of integrity in 1980. Let's hope we are not going to have to say 'twas ever thus.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 11:26 AM

Jaundiced things my backside, Maggie. I've expressed my opinion, right or wrong, in civil tones. You've revealed multiple times here that you think that Brits can't have valid opinions on US politics. Now that's what I could call jaundiced.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 03:51 PM

So why haven't they been looking for the last three years? Has no-one got the vision to see that a candidate who looks frail now and who will be 86 at the end of a second term, five long years from now, could well be a liability in an election in over a year's time? I mean, what if he dies or gets really sick, fer chrissake? The age difference between them isn't too far short of a presidential term in length. You can't pretend that that doesn't matter. Listen, I like Biden, I think he's done well and the world feels safer with him at the helm. But there has to be someone else in the frame, at least to fall back on even if they don't replace him. Where is that person? They are neck and neck in the polls now, but trip-ups will wound Biden far more than they will Trump. There's his son and there's his Afghanistan cock-up for starters. Populism and seventy-odd million ignorant people have been set in place to make Trump ever stronger at every trip-up. He seems almost impregnable at times.

Read the piece by Timothy Garton Ash. He's a big Biden supporter, as am I, he's worried, and he's far more savvy in these matters than I am. I don't think you'll find anything "jaundiced" in his piece, whether you agree with him or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 07:01 PM

Kamala Harris is simply anonymous, and from this end, very disappointing.

Trouble is, Maggie, while we all know here that Afghanistan was a Trump thing, the ignominious and chaotic withdrawal happened on Biden's watch. Suppose Trump makes a big thing of that in the next campaign. How many of his tens of millions of fans would blame him and not Biden? You and I are in a tiny minority when it comes to that digging and delving that ends up with our putting the ball into Trump's court in that regard. Let's not live in a bubble. Ultimately, it's what your electorate decides, not what you and I can live in hope with. By the way, when you say "there you go again," you are parroting the words of Reagan vs Jimmy Carter. I'm amazed that you'd lay yourself open to be tarred with that particular brush...

Over here we have news sources as good or better than yours, and we cognescenti (:-)) can dig and delve. I don't look at questionable sources and I try really hard to not suffer from confirmation bias. I'm sure you're the same, but please stop thinking that only yanks can get a grip on US issues. Seventy-odd million of you haven't yet managed it, have they?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 23 - 07:10 PM

By the way, when I say that Kamala is anonymous, I'm not saying that she's ineffective or useless or that she isn't doing a good job. Not a bit of it. But we are talking here about not having Trump as your next president. As it seems that your justice system will be incapable of dealing with him, we need really good people to be upfront and putting the moral case. I look forward to seeing more of her. At the moment, we foreigners don't actually know who she is.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 07:14 AM

I do know how to spell it (watch out when it comes to picking me up on spellings, by the way). I got my knickers in a twist over the brackets and symbols and concluded in the end that trying to put a smiley face inside brackets is not a good idea. Once I'd got that right, more or less, I moved on without doing the spelling correction. I knew it was wrong as soon as my post appeared. I'd usually send another post to correct an error like that, but my name's already popped up too many times in this thread's recent post list (who's going to disagree?), so I refrained on this occasion. Oh, and it doesn't help that I'm currently in a tangle with my optometrist with regard to my reading glasses prescription. I'll publish the address for sympathy cards to be sent to later.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 11:02 AM

I've already moved on but you want the last word. See my previous post. My opinion of your politicians is hardly any different to yours. I'm talking about how your electorate is going to see things, not you and I. And your recent bullying tone appears to make you sound like you're treading on free speech. Please don't do that. We know you don't like Brits commenting on your politics and that you think we can't read the news properly. You've made that perfectly clear. I note that you haven't made even the slightest reference to the thoughtful piece by Timothy Garton Ash. Another Brit, eh, just one who happens to know a damn sight more about all this than you and me. Did you even bother to read it?   I'm moving on now. Please don't delete this then have the last word again, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 11:04 AM

Finally (really!), read my lips: you are not getting rid of Trump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 05:43 PM

Well what does that mean. Never mind.

Fraud isn't going to get Donald Trump. I think we all know that.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 23 - 06:36 PM

By the way, we can all comfort ourselves by calling him the orange one, fat, stupid, he wears diapers, he uses makeup, his hair is fake, his diet is terrible, he'll hate jail, etc. It's all just words. None of this is in any way serious enough criticism for his tens of millions of supporters to ditch him. No way. Another line of attack is needed. Court cases will go on for months and years, and he's fixed your Supreme Court, just in case he decides to take his appeals there. Fraud cases will get us nowhere. Charges of offences against the state may do. Maggie says it's about getting rid of him. Sure. But there's no serious discussion here of how we an actually do that, and the world is watching.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 07:19 AM

This piece in today's Guardian reveals a ray of hope (without having to mention the colour of Trump's face and other irrelevancies that might cheer us up but which get us nowhere). Trump may think he's playing to the gallery of his supporters but the steadfastness and sanity of the various layers of the judiciary could be his ultimate undoing. Before you get to the end, if you didn't know already the author is an eminent American, not a know-all Brit. Robert Reich:

There’s reason to feel a bit more secure about the strength of American democracy, notwithstanding Donald Trump’s escalating threats.

For one thing, a large bipartisan coalition in both chambers of Congress has beat back the House Maga Republicans’ attempt to shut down the government.

This was a major defeat for Trump, who had called a shutdown “the last chance to defund these political prosecutions against me and other patriots”.

Americans should also feel encouraged by the tenacity of judges and prosecutors in holding Trump accountable, notwithstanding his threats.

Ever since his first indictment, Trump has attacked with increasing ferocity the judges and prosecutors who have tried to hold him accountable – calling them “deranged”, “thugs”, “hacks”, “corrupt”, “biased”, “disgraceful”, “radical”, “unAmerican”, and worse.

To their credit, judges and prosecutors have not wavered.

They have set strict timetables for Trump’s criminal trials. They have refused Trump’s many motions and appeals. They have ruled against Trump in the civil lawsuits against him and meted out tough penalties.

Last Tuesday, Judge Arthur Engoron, ruling in a civil lawsuit brought by New York’s attorney general, found that Trump and his company deceived banks, insurers and others by massively overvaluing his assets and exaggerating his net worth on paperwork used to secure financing.

As punishment, Engoron ordered that some of Trump’s business licenses be rescinded.

Trump lashed out: “The widespread, radical attack against me, my family, and my supporters has now devolved to new, un-American depths, at the hands of a DERANGED New York State Judge, doing the bidding of a completely biased and corrupt ‘Prosecutor,’ Letitia James,” Trump wrote.

As Trump’s attacks on judges and prosecutors have worsened, prosecutors and judges have responded forcefully.

On Friday, the Colorado district judge Sarah B Wallace, overseeing the first significant lawsuit to bar Trump from the 2024 presidential ballot – on grounds that the 14th amendment explicitly bars from office anyone who has sworn an oath to uphold the constitution and has taken part in an insurrection – issued a protective order prohibiting parties in the case from making threatening or intimidating statements.

Judge Wallace said the order was necessary to protect the safety of those involved – including herself and her staff.

Meanwhile, Jack Smith, the special counsel overseeing the justice department’s prosecutions of Trump, has requested a gag order against Trump. Smith linked Trump’s ominous rhetoric to threats against prosecutors, judges and potential witnesses.

“The defendant continues these attacks on individuals precisely because he knows that in doing so, he is able to roil the public and marshal and prompt his supporters,” Smith said in the court filing.

One day after he posted “IF YOU GO AFTER ME, I’M COMING FOR YOU!” a woman called the chambers of the US district judge Tanya Chutkan, who has been assigned to the election fraud case against Trump, and said that if Trump is not reelected next year, “we are coming to kill you”. The woman was later charged with making the call.

The top prosecutors on the four criminal cases against Trump – two brought by the justice department and one each in Georgia and New York – now require round-the-clock protection.

Smith himself – whom Trump has described as “a thug” and “deranged” – has been a target of violent threats. His office is spending $8m to $10m on protective details for him, his family and senior staff members, according to officials.

Since its agents carried out the court-authorized search of Mar-a-Lago in August 2022, the FBI has seen the number of threats against its personnel and facilities surge more than 300%.

A Trump supporter wearing tactical gear and armed with an AR-15 tried to breach the FBI field office in Cincinnati. He failed, fled and later died in a shootout with law enforcement.

Trump is escalating his threats and provocations. Even if one or two of his followers act on them, the result would be tragic.

Merrick B Garland, the attorney general, recently told Congress that Trump’s demonization of judges and prosecutors threatened the rule of law. “Singling out individual career public servants who are just doing their jobs is dangerous – particularly at a time of increased threats to the safety of public servants and their families,” Garland said.

Garland then added: “We will not be intimidated. We will do our jobs free from outside influence. And we will not back down from defending our democracy.”

America owes a great debt of gratitude to the judges, prosecutors, grand jurors and prospective jurors who refuse to be intimidated by Trump’s threats, and who will not back down from defending our democracy.

While the mainstream media continues to treat Trump as a politician rather than a peril, normalizing his dangerous threats, the nation’s judges and prosecutors are protecting the rule of law.

They – along with Saturday’s bipartisan majority vote in Congress against Maga extremists – give some hope that the fever of Trumpism may be starting to break.

[Robert Reich, a former US secretary of labor, is a professor of public policy at the University of California, Berkeley]

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 01:43 PM

Too many polls are flawed by asking less-than-representative samples of people, samples that are too small and by asking leading questions, often by polls which seek a particular outcome. There are reputable pollsters who work on these things. Polls, whether you like it or not, are embedded in our democratic process. The UK forbids polling on the day of the election except for exit polls, which tend be be extremely accurate. If you want to ban polls (I'm sure you don't), we should also be banning tabloid newspapers and Fox/Sky News, which have the same baleful influences on the electorate that you list.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump INDICTED AGAIN x4 (NO new Trmp threads)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 03 Oct 23 - 06:09 PM

Good, measured post on polls, Lighter. As I said, polling is embedded in our democracies. Polls are just one factor in influencing the electorate. Right-wing mass media and lying politicians are probably far more influential. We can't silence any of 'em. That's democracy for you.