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info Lumi sticks

DigiTrad:
BARGES
CANOE PADDLE
EACH CAMPFIRE LIGHTS ANEW
GIRL SCOUTS TOGETHER
HERE WE ARE
I CAN SAIL
I LOVE THE DAFFODILS
MAKE NEW FRIENDS
OUR CHALET
PEACE I ASK OF THEE OH RIVER
RISE AND SHINE
TALL TIMBERS
WE ARE CALLED THE GIRL SCOUTS
WEAVE
WHEN E'RE YOU MAKE A PROMISE
WHO CAN SAIL


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bet 04 Mar 03 - 04:57 PM
GUEST 04 Mar 03 - 05:15 PM
PageOfCups 04 Mar 03 - 05:39 PM
katlaughing 04 Mar 03 - 05:48 PM
bet 04 Mar 03 - 06:01 PM
katlaughing 04 Mar 03 - 06:09 PM
Mr Red 04 Mar 03 - 06:09 PM
artbrooks 04 Mar 03 - 10:19 PM
GUEST,Q 05 Mar 03 - 02:11 PM
GUEST,Vikki Appleton Fielden 05 Oct 03 - 08:04 PM
open mike 05 Oct 03 - 08:14 PM
GUEST,Vikki Appleton Fielden 05 Oct 03 - 08:51 PM
open mike 05 Oct 03 - 09:17 PM
GUEST,Vikki Appleton Fielden 05 Oct 03 - 10:23 PM
Melani 05 Oct 03 - 11:53 PM
Allan C. 06 Oct 03 - 12:21 AM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Oct 03 - 01:33 AM
open mike 06 Oct 03 - 01:35 AM
Roger the Skiffler 06 Oct 03 - 04:09 AM
Dani 06 Oct 03 - 04:16 AM
Little Robyn 06 Oct 03 - 05:27 AM
Little Robyn 06 Oct 03 - 05:34 AM
GUEST 06 Oct 03 - 07:16 AM
LadyJean 06 Oct 03 - 09:09 PM
The Fooles Troupe 06 Oct 03 - 11:18 PM
GUEST 22 Apr 04 - 03:36 PM
GUEST 15 May 04 - 03:38 PM
GUEST,dsticking 10 Jun 04 - 07:29 AM
GUEST 27 Dec 04 - 01:39 AM
GUEST,Kathleen 10 Jul 08 - 10:19 PM
GUEST,Kathleen 10 Jul 08 - 10:23 PM
GUEST,Nancy 24 Apr 09 - 02:34 AM
Little Robyn 24 Apr 09 - 07:12 AM
open mike 05 May 10 - 01:52 AM
GUEST 09 Apr 11 - 09:05 PM
The Fooles Troupe 09 Apr 11 - 10:21 PM
GUEST,Jan 16 Feb 12 - 12:04 PM
Little Robyn 16 Feb 12 - 03:31 PM
GUEST,Tracy 15 Aug 12 - 10:31 AM
GUEST,999 15 Aug 12 - 04:14 PM
GUEST,Betrice 21 Oct 15 - 12:53 AM
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Subject: info Lumi sticks
From: bet
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 04:57 PM

I know some of you older Girl Scouts will remember this game we use to play using the lumi sticks. I've been trying to get some info on it's origin but have found various answeres. One book I have says it's from Russian another, a text book, says it's from the Maori people of New Zealnd. I was always told as a Scout that it was an Indian game. These are the words I'm using:
    mah ko way ko tay oh
    way koo-ee tah nah

repeated over and over. Any help would be apreciated.   bet


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 05:15 PM

bet,

Don't know about Lumi sticks as a source of lyrics, however Lumi sticks help the striper fishermen of Maine catch record sized stripers deep, slightly offshore.

wdyat24


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: PageOfCups
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 05:39 PM

Bet -

I did a quick Google search on "lummi sticks" (two m's!) and got over 800 hits. Nothing about a Russian origin in the pages I looked at, but I found one reference to the Maori (here), and a page with extensive instructions on how to play with them, and even how to make the sticks out of newspaper here . Hope this helps.

PoC


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 05:48 PM

Just to stir the pot a bit more, Sister Sue, I found reference to them in Africa, among the Ma'sai people, even near a Lumi River!

Also, there is a drumming resource page which lists a tape for sale of fun with lumi sticks, about halfway down this page: clickety. Not that it seems that would answer your question, but maybe the artist has some history on them.

So how come you never showed me these things when we were growing up? This is the first time I've ever heard of them. Ya sure we were raised by the same parents?**BG**

luvyakat


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: bet
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 06:01 PM

Thanks! How come I can go to Google and type in lummi sticks-origin and nothing that helped me. Thanks PageOfCups! As for you kat, don't tell my students, I told them I played them with my LITTLE sister. Thanks for your help. bet


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 06:09 PM

I just put in lumi - one "L"

It could've always been those "other two." :-)


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 06:09 PM

The Moari do have a stick game usually played by women for display purposes. They throw the stick (garland dance baton size) from hand to hand and to their neghbours. It is not easy to do either. And they sing to it. Now the poi is different Moari display artefact...............


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 10:19 PM

Jenn, former Girl Scout leader, says that a person in her troop in Seattle said they used to play something similar on her reservation in the Dakotas with deer bones. She also says that, if a New Zealander comes on the thread, they might know if its Maori.


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 05 Mar 03 - 02:11 PM

Lummi sticks seem to be used in most of Pacific Oceania, western North America, Asia and Africa. Looks like a lot of teachers are using them to teach rhythm and coordination. I don't think they were used in the schools when I was young.

At one of the New Mexico pueblos recently, I saw a girl playing with three sticks. The object was to keep the third stick moving between the two in her hands, and occasionally tossing it in the air and catching it with the other two (mostly unsuccessfully). An old aboriginal game? No, she had seen a juggler doing it on TV.


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Vikki Appleton Fielden
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 08:04 PM

I was taught Lemmi (Lummi?) sticks as a Girl Scout in the 60s... was told it was from the Philippines (although judging by this thread, it seems more likely they were Maori or African in origin).


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: open mike
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 08:14 PM

I remember this from girl scouts.
the sticks we often made from sawing up broom handles.
and we would do a 3 count rhythm, the first 2 beats
you tap or pound the bottom of both sticks on teh ground
(while sitting cross legged) and the 3rd beat you would
do any of various movements includeing clicking the tops of the
sticks on the grouond, or together, or passing a stick back and forth with your neighbor trying to stoy on the beat, or flipping one or both sticks in your hand. you would start out easy then do increasingly more complicated moves. I recall it was from pacific islands or phillipines.


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Vikki Appleton Fielden
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 08:51 PM

Hi Open Mike,

I remember the same movements, but in addition you would have someone jumping in & out of the sticks as they moved (sometimes 2 or more people -- depending on the length of the sticks). While the sticks were being clicked together (slightly raised & in the center), the person would jump with feet apart (one on each side of the sticks), then jump again -- over the sticks as they moved to an apart-and-down to tap on the floor position -- landing with feet together & between the sticks.

If you didn't get the timing right, your feet and the sticks would collide of course -- more embarrassing than painful, if I remember rightly...


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: open mike
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 09:17 PM

http://www.infolane.com/twinson/lummi.html
here is a chart showing movements and words:
http://gsleaders.org/files/game0010.htm
and here is another description of how to teach:
Lesson Focus:

    · student sit Indian style
    · Each student will have two Lummi Sticks
    o teach front tap
    o go through different rhythm patterns
    § front tap, side tap, end tap...
    o teach left, right, and both Lummi Stick flips
    o to go through different rhythm patterns
    § front tap, left flip, side tap, right flip, end tap,
    both flip...

but now i want to find out what to call the
game done with 2 long poles or bamboo sticks
that is sort of like jump rope, describved here:

You can buy two long dowels the thickness of closet poles
...You need two kids kneeling and facing each other with
the long sticks stretched between them. They bang them
on the floor once,then click them up together above the
floor twice, back to the floor. you get a rhythm going of
crack, click-click/ crack, click-click/. Then a third child
steps in and out of the sticks while the two keep up
the rhythm. I think this is one time words do not clearly
describe the activity!

I think this might be" called Tinakling dancing in the
Philipines. "
http://www.k12.hi.us/~gta/hawaii/tinikling/tinkling.htm
http://www.evergreencsrd.ab.ca/St.Marguerite/tinikling/default.htm
http://www.ei.educ.ab.ca/sch/ftv/GR_6.html


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Vikki Appleton Fielden
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 10:23 PM

Open Mike's description of the Filipino dance "Tinakling" is exactly what I was trying to describe as Lumi sticks. I suspect my memory has bait & switched me -- causing me to remember Tinakling with the wrong name (mind like a steel sieve, I have!). Sorry about that.


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: Melani
Date: 05 Oct 03 - 11:53 PM

Yup, we played the same game at Girl Scout camp, used the same song as quoted above. Our sticks were made from fallen tree branches, carved and painted.


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: Allan C.
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 12:21 AM

A friend introduced this during a demonstration of her native Filipino dances. For that reason, I've always thought it originated there.


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 01:33 AM

We seem to have several things mixed in here.

a) The dancers stepping in and out of long poles rhythmically moved and tapped together, I always thought to be Indonesian, but I could be wrong. It could be "Tinakling dancing in the Philipines." - but isn't the Philippines in the Indonesian region?

b) "mah ko way ko tay oh way koo-ee tah nah" sounds to me like a phonetic transcription of Maori...

c) some other things which involve throwing sticks around which could be anything but boomerangs
"What do you call a boomerang which doesn't come back - a stick!"

d) "At one of the New Mexico pueblos recently, I saw a girl playing with three sticks. The object was to keep the third stick moving between the two in her hands, and occasionally tossing it in the air and catching it with the other two (mostly unsuccessfully). An old aboriginal game? No, she had seen a juggler doing it on TV. "

sounds like something called "Devil's sticks" - something jugglers have been doing around here for some years, similar to the gagdet which like two cones joined at the tips which are tossed in the air from astring suspended from the far ends of 2 sticks held in the hands.

And I looked at this thread cause I wondered what those plastic tubes that you crack the glass vial inside to mix the chemicals to mix and give off light for several hours had to do with music...

Seems like all this confusion could inspire a song and turn this into a music thread after all... :-)

Robin


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: open mike
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 01:35 AM

we are talking about two different stick things here
one with short sticks about a foot long held in the
hand and tapped on the ground to a rhythm. (Lummi)
another activity where two long sticks are manipulated by
two sitting people while a person steps between/over them
as they move. (tinakling) both organic forms of entertainment!


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 04:09 AM

I'm sure I saw a similar women's stick dance among the folk dances in the Cook Islands so Polynesian/Maori sounds right. BUT... the other cultures might have all learned it from each other at an international Guide/Girl Scout Jamboree, perhaps invented by Olave Baden Powell in UK!! Poi Poi (tiny ball on end of string) where the balls are twirled (NOW, NOW, 'Spaw...No comments!)is definitely Polynesian/Maori.

RtS


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: Dani
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 04:16 AM

I have a distinct memory of the game you're talking about Roger (Poi), and it was taught to us on the playground(25 years ago?!) by a girl recently from Peru.

Dani


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: Little Robyn
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 05:27 AM

Haere Mai from New Zealand!
Other cultures may have similar stick games but the words you give are a phonetic transcription of Maori words, to the second verse of the following song by W. Tawhare.

E Aue! E Ka mate au!

E papa waiari taku nei mahi
Taku nei mahi he tukt roimata
E papa waiari taku nei mahi
Taku nei mahi he tukt roimata!
Chorus:
E au-e! E kamate au!
E hine hoki mai ra.
V2:
Maku e kau-te o hikoi tanga,
Maku e kau-te o hikoi tanga.


Phonetically it's sort of like this:

Ay pa-pa why are ee tar coo nay mar hee.
Tar coo nay mar hee hay too coo roy mar tar.

Ay oh ay! Ay car mar tay oh,
Ay hee nay hoe key my rah!

Mar coo ay co tay or hee coy tar na,
Mar coo ay co tay or hee coy tar na.

I don't recognise the name Lumi sticks. Here we just refer to it as a Maori stick game though the Maori name is Tititorea.
That was the one we learnt at Girl's Brigade about 40 years ago. We did it in pairs but the advanced version has 4 people sitting in a square and the sticks are thrown diagonally across the square as well as just across to your partner - without dropping them! I think the final bit had all eight sticks flying at once, around in a circle, passing the one from your left hand to your right and your right one to the person on your right, while simultaneously trying to catch the one thrown from the person on your left, in your left hand!
Got that?
But for beginners, holding them upright, just tap the bottom of the sticks on the ground, then click them together in front of you, twice, at about chest height. That's verse 1.
The next bit uses movements similar to Pat-a-cake, tap the ground, click together once, then throw the one in your right hand across to your partner's right hand, and with the same movement, catch their one. Then repeat that but throw and catch them in your left hand.
After that you get into stuff that's a bit too awkward to describe, where the sticks are flipped over end to end or swapped from hand to hand in all sorts of tricky combinations.
Give it a go. We had cut-off bits of a broomstick but it's much easier on the hands (and knees) if you use rolled up newspaper, held tight with sticky tape around the top and bottom.
Haere ra,
Robyn


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: Little Robyn
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 05:34 AM

Sorry, the second and fourth line of the first verse should read 'tuku roimata'.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 07:16 AM


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 09:09 PM

Women in India dance gerbas clicking sticks together, while singing. They use something not unlike the Lumi sticks I remember from Girl Scouts, short, about as big around as a broom stick, and decorated with stripes.


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 06 Oct 03 - 11:18 PM

Hey, now you've reminded me!

I think they call it Luni Sticks.

They got this sort of folk dance like thing in England, where the guys swig lots of beer and clump around in big boots and some guys wear raggy clothes, or dress up like characters in a pantomime. They do some sort of Martial Art thingie, running at each other & jumping in the air, bouncing off each others chests, waving hankies at each other and trying to hit each other over the head with sticks, ofteh with lots of loud yelling.

The whole mess is usually accompanied by dummers (or even drummers) and guys making a great loud cacophony on squeezeboxes.

My Friend Maurice told me... :-)

Robin


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 03:36 PM

I learned lummi sticks in Camp Fire Girls in the 60's, and believed it to come from native indians in Washington- the Lummi tribe-which may be true, but it does not surprise me that so many cultures have similar games and the words/patterns have trqavelled and mixed. If the words that I know (ma koo ay, etc.) are from the Maori, I wonder what the words are from the Lummi tribe?


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 04 - 03:38 PM

Foolestroupe, that's Morris dancing and has nothing to do with Lemmi sticks/tiki-torea/tinakling!!!


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,dsticking
Date: 10 Jun 04 - 07:29 AM

Juggling sticks are popular around the world, they are called devil sticks. the ones that have leather tasles on the end are flower sticks. you can find information about them at a juggling or magic store. the brand lunastix is sold at outdoor outfitters or sports stores. They also sell them at kite and hobbie stores


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 01:39 AM

Hey,
Yes, I remember both "lumi sticks", which are, indeed the 12"-18" sticks which were tapped in front, on the side of the person sitting "indian style" and occasionally thrown to their partner. We did an entire program in the 1970's using the Lumi Sticks and I still remember the routine and the words. The "ma ko way ko tay oh waaaay , kooe tah nah, etc.   

The other sticks we used were long bamboo poles, similer to fishing poles and they were about 6' long. Two people kneeled and banged the sticks on the floor twice and then together once with a 1-2-3 beat. Other persons would dance in between the poles and be sure their foot was OUT on the beat where the poles came together ! When you have several people in a gymnasium doing this simultaneously, it makes a fairly impressive racket.

I don't think there was any song to the long-poled dancing. Our Lumi-sticks were made of 1' dowels cut and painted. I will never forget it. Janet


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Kathleen
Date: 10 Jul 08 - 10:19 PM


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Kathleen
Date: 10 Jul 08 - 10:23 PM

I am definitely an "older"Girl Scout (67) but I vividly remember playing lumi sticks at camp. I thought of it this week as 2 of my granddaughters are coming for a week long visit (both are 7) and I thought that it would be fun to teach them the game. But I also remember a strange song that we sang as we played. It went something like "ma ka oh, ko ta ah, e kooie taw ma, ma kay oh, ko ta ah, ee kooie ta my." Is this ringing a bell with anyone?????


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Nancy
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 02:34 AM

HI, I'm a Waldorf teacher in Wisconsin and I am teaching this stick game to my 2nd graders!

My words are along the lines of the Maori

Mah ku E toe kay noh a way kee wee tah nay

I make up my own patterns and rhythms. Some are with only one stick, some with two. We tap, click, flip, and double flip when we get really good. The tune is really simple but I have no way of posting it here!

We make our own sticks by sawing and sanding dowels. Great fun.


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: Little Robyn
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 07:12 AM

Hi Nancy, you might be interested in visiting John Archer's site with lots of info on these stick games - Maori and Lummi.
He has now added midis and a youtube link.
Just click here.
Robyn


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: open mike
Date: 05 May 10 - 01:52 AM

the recent revival of several scout song threads brought this stick game and song to mind..


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 09:05 PM

Tinikling sticks too.

When I was very young around 4 years old, about 50 years ago, I learned how to dance in and out of the lummi or Tinikling sticks. I learned on the playground of Southlawn veteran's housing project in Milwaukee, WI. The song i remember went like this and kept repeating until you messed up.

Ah ko way
ko wee ah kin
way
ko wee ah kin

ah ko way
ko wee ah kin
way
ko wee ah kin


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 09 Apr 11 - 10:21 PM

Global Simultaneous Serendipity.

At the local Buddhists Community meal and forum yesterday, they did not have the usual 'discussion' - they had Philippine guests, who brought their sticks, and danced.

You do realize there are several theatrical tricks... the 'demo' of putting one foot in first will not help you learn, as you get your weight distribution all wrong for the 'dance'.

Try walking around to a six count. You get two 'waltz steps' in sequence, one for each leading foot. This is the best preparation for the dance step. The http://folksong.org.nz/epapa/index.html show s a pieces written in 6/8 time.

The only trick is deciding what you count want to use as the 'base for the rhythm - you can either start on the sweep together click or the first outward move tap as the 1 count. i don;t know which way the 'natives' do it ... ;-)


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Jan
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 12:04 PM

From my research, it is a Maori song from New Zealand and the words I recall singing were:
    Ma Koo Ay
    Ko Tay O
    Ay Koo e Tah no....
We held Lemmi/Lummi Sticks in each hand and beat the sticks on the floor, against each other and twirled them around to the beat of the music. I just listened to the song when I went to Amazon.com to a book of Maori songs but now I can't locate the book! Anyway, I hope this helps. If anyone can find the song or a video of the song with the lemmi/lummi sticks, please let me know.


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: Little Robyn
Date: 16 Feb 12 - 03:31 PM

Jan click here and scroll down
for a video, the words and chords and even the dots further down. It's the site I mentioned in April 09.
Robyn in NZ


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Tracy
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 10:31 AM

I learned this song in campfire.
    Ma Koo Ay
    Ko Tay O
    Ay Koo e Tah no....


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 04:14 PM

Is this the game?


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Subject: RE: info Lumi sticks
From: GUEST,Betrice
Date: 21 Oct 15 - 12:53 AM

1060's GS from Chattanooga, Tn. Lummi sticks is Indian game played by the Cherokee tribe. Tribesmen would pound their sticks in a circle and chant familiar songs to teach their children heritage and unity. Young boys would sit in the center and the older men (grandfathers) would teach them the movements. When they had mastered the moves and picked up speed, they would be honored by being allowed to join the adult circle. This was not a simple 3 count and flip, it was a pattern of FAST moving art. More flipping than you can imagine. The purpose of this exercise was to know your brother warriors and how they made every move inside out. When you were on the field of battle, you needed to know how they moved, thought and to anticipate their next action without a word. The sticks themselves were significant. The original stick was given to the boy when he joined the circle by his grandfather and was carved exactly as his father's stick and the second stick was carved by the boy to reflect his own taste or interests. The flipping was not just to the person in front or in back but often skipped people to develop the skill of helping a brother when fighting in battle so they could flip a knife, rock or weapon to help somebody out if it was necessary and know that they could execute the throw with accuracy.

The women and girls would do the cane dancing on the outside of the circle to the same chants while the men practiced with the lummi sticks.

I am Cherokee and I recognize the chant you mention above, we did ours to: on knee con a new ah, on knee con a new ah, a, little o, little a, little o.


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