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seeking online translator - Welsh / English

Lancashire Lad 22 Feb 05 - 07:45 AM
sian, west wales 22 Feb 05 - 10:24 AM
breezy 22 Feb 05 - 10:57 AM
Chris in Wheaton 22 Feb 05 - 02:43 PM
JohnInKansas 22 Feb 05 - 03:29 PM
breezy 22 Feb 05 - 05:20 PM
Lancashire Lad 23 Feb 05 - 03:09 AM
Splott Man 23 Feb 05 - 03:59 AM
Nigel Parsons 23 Feb 05 - 03:48 PM
Chris in Wheaton 24 Feb 05 - 10:57 AM
sian, west wales 25 Feb 05 - 06:27 AM
pavane 25 Feb 05 - 09:26 AM
Chris in Wheaton 25 Feb 05 - 11:43 AM
sian, west wales 25 Feb 05 - 11:47 AM
Lancashire Lad 25 Feb 05 - 12:01 PM
GUEST,Peepo 26 Feb 05 - 11:38 AM
sian, west wales 26 Feb 05 - 01:25 PM
GUEST,Stephen Murphy 02 Nov 06 - 09:26 AM
Paul Burke 02 Nov 06 - 09:38 AM
sian, west wales 02 Nov 06 - 10:20 AM
Snuffy 02 Nov 06 - 10:59 AM
sian, west wales 02 Nov 06 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Aom 22 Apr 07 - 06:54 PM
Chris in Portland 23 Apr 07 - 02:32 PM
GUEST 01 Mar 08 - 09:05 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 01 Mar 08 - 10:12 PM
Anne Lister 02 Mar 08 - 03:40 AM
GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice 02 Mar 08 - 05:26 PM
GUEST,jegs11 31 Aug 08 - 02:19 PM
sian, west wales 01 Sep 08 - 04:37 AM
GUEST,jac 05 Nov 08 - 11:44 AM
GUEST,Trevek 05 Nov 08 - 01:13 PM
GUEST,Zima 14 Nov 08 - 02:30 PM
breezy 14 Nov 08 - 02:46 PM
sian, west wales 14 Nov 08 - 06:45 PM
Phil Edwards 15 Nov 08 - 11:19 AM
Phil Edwards 15 Nov 08 - 11:23 AM
GUEST 18 Nov 08 - 03:22 PM
sian, west wales 18 Nov 08 - 05:46 PM
GUEST,Celtic Songstress 19 Nov 08 - 03:18 PM
GUEST,Zima 02 Dec 08 - 11:08 AM
GUEST,Sue - west wales 17 Dec 08 - 11:02 AM
Bryn Pugh 17 Dec 08 - 11:39 AM
Newport Boy 17 Dec 08 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,Sue - west wales 17 Dec 08 - 02:10 PM
Newport Boy 17 Dec 08 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,Sue - west wales 17 Dec 08 - 04:32 PM
GUEST,Sue - west wales 17 Dec 08 - 04:35 PM
Mr Red 18 Dec 08 - 05:18 AM
GUEST,Monmouth Alun 18 Dec 08 - 07:22 AM
Nigel Parsons 18 Dec 08 - 07:29 AM
Bryn Pugh 18 Dec 08 - 10:26 AM
sian, west wales 08 Jan 09 - 05:59 AM
Bryn Pugh 08 Jan 09 - 11:02 AM
Chris in Portland 08 Jan 09 - 08:15 PM
sian, west wales 09 Jan 09 - 05:06 AM
GUEST,Brian Williams Cwmbach Male Choir 09 Jan 09 - 05:54 AM
Chris in Portland 09 Jan 09 - 12:57 PM
GUEST,Monmouth Alun 12 Jan 09 - 11:51 AM
GUEST 13 Jan 09 - 10:40 AM
Nigel Parsons 13 Jan 09 - 11:23 AM
sian, west wales 13 Jan 09 - 02:55 PM
GUEST,Brian Williams, Cwmbach Male Choir 19 Jan 09 - 09:59 AM
GUEST 30 Jan 09 - 09:22 AM
GUEST 22 Sep 09 - 08:13 AM
GUEST 15 Oct 09 - 02:08 PM
sian, west wales 19 Oct 09 - 05:30 AM
Phil Edwards 19 Oct 09 - 07:17 AM
sian, west wales 19 Oct 09 - 08:12 AM
GUEST,georgia 24 Dec 09 - 07:37 AM
GUEST,Monmouth Alun 02 Mar 10 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,Monmouth Alun 02 Mar 10 - 12:39 PM
GUEST,Monmouth Alun 02 Mar 10 - 12:42 PM
sian, west wales 02 Mar 10 - 01:25 PM
GUEST,Monmouth Alun 03 Mar 10 - 06:50 AM
sian, west wales 03 Mar 10 - 07:12 AM
GUEST,Switch Evans 03 Mar 10 - 07:20 AM
GUEST,belled 03 May 10 - 07:30 PM
sian, west wales 04 May 10 - 04:31 AM
GUEST,belled 05 May 10 - 12:04 AM
sian, west wales 05 May 10 - 08:31 AM
GUEST 10 May 10 - 06:27 AM
sian, west wales 19 May 10 - 04:54 AM
GUEST,Liz 05 Aug 10 - 05:17 AM
Monique 05 Aug 10 - 06:48 AM
Joe Offer 05 Aug 10 - 02:05 PM
Nigel Parsons 06 Aug 10 - 10:26 AM
GUEST,Kelly - cwmbach welsh wizard 03 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM
sian, west wales 04 Mar 11 - 06:02 AM
Chris in Portland 04 Mar 11 - 09:13 AM
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Subject: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 07:45 AM

Hi all
I've been playing some of my old vinyl released on the Welsh Sain label. Being a non Welsh speaker, it is difficult to catch the thread of many lyrics. Does anyone have any recommendations for on line translators on a computer based English / Welsh dictionary?
I have tried the one at http://www.acenstore.co.uk/. It seems to list a massive amount of possible translations for every word inputted in Welsh

LL


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 10:24 AM

Or ... you could post them here and some of us might know if there are English translations available. Many of the old Sain records were originally put out with English outlines. Some songs have English translations published elsewhere and we might know about them ...

I've never found one of those translators yet that aren't heavy on the entertainment factor but light on the accuracy!

siân


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: breezy
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 10:57 AM

Dont bother, usually the translation into english doesnt do the original justice and I was welsh speaking, once upon a time.

Now its 2 down , 2 wins, what'll be the score this week end then?


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Chris in Wheaton
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 02:43 PM

There is a great group of folks at the Clwb Malu Cachu site that might help you do translations if they have the songs, and there is a lot of Welsh lyrics at caneuon gwerin .
What type of songs?
I am learning Welsh, but I've written some English choruses, so that the folks in Chicago have an idea what the song is about.
Chris


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 03:29 PM

No hope of being particularly helpful, but the question got me curious enough to look a bit.

My quick look found an "official looking" translator at BBC Lexicool. It appears to use the same "translator engine" as is found on a few other sites, but with more interface options with some additional links to other "possibly Welsh" information.

The apparently identical translator engine is also at:
InterTran (www.tranexp.com)
which they say "can translate single words, phrases, sentences and entire web pages." The "free translator" page here has links to other translation info and services, some paid.

Apparently the same translator is at: Welsh English Lexicon. This page doesn't give much peripheral info, but indicates the "engine" is rather small - Gives statistics: Total entries: Welsh-English 24662; English-Welsh 18778 (including some phrases).

LINKS TO A NUMBER OF WEB TRANSLATOR SITES: A Google link to "Translate Welsh to English sent me to Euro OSHA which opens in Deutsch, but there's a button at the top to get it in English. The English page has links to a fairly large number of web translator sites, but I only saw one that mentioned Welsh. It might be a useful "general purpose" bookmark for when you run into "other languages" while surfing. (Apparently I let them give me a cookie, because the re-visit to check my link code opened in English.)

Almost thread drift: The Microsoft Office update site recently began offering me an "IRISH GRAMMAR AND SPELL CHECKER." I connect as a "US-English" user, so I can't say whether the same is available if you're an "English-western euro" version. (It may always have been in your version?) Options/updates are frequently "language specific." I haven't tried it out, since spiel chuckers you can't chick are dangerous (IMO).

John


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: breezy
Date: 22 Feb 05 - 05:20 PM

Hey Chris did you mean 'site' or 'shite' which is what 'cachu' translaaates to means??


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 03:09 AM

Thanks for all your suggestions. I will try them out.

Could anyone help with this basic one.
Its the front cover of an old LP on Sain label

DEWCH GYMRY GLAN

i wrando ar ein can!

HOGIA'R WYDDFA

I'm embarrassed to say I dont know which is the name of the artist and which is the album title. (Its playing havoc with my alphabetical A-Z listing of records!)

Sadly this is one of a few Welsh albums that doesnt have the Welsh / English lyric / info sheet or any English sleeve notes.

Thanks for any help

LL


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Splott Man
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 03:59 AM

I use

http://www.geiriadur.net/

Again, it gives you probably too many choices.

For the odd phrase here and there, the Welsh Hotline at 0845 6076070 is excellent, they don't hold you on the line and will reply by email.

Good luck


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Feb 05 - 03:48 PM

Hogia'r Wyddfa (The Boys from Snowdon) is the group name, see the preceding link for more info

"Dewch Gymru Glân (1976)"

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Chris in Wheaton
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 10:57 AM

The songs on the cd are:
Rownd yr Horn, Y ferch o blwy' Penderyn, Santiana, Y fronfraith, Lisa lân, Mae 'nghariad i'n fenws, Ar gyfer heddiw'r bore, Hwiangerdd Mair, Fflat Huw Puw, Blewyn glas, Llongau Caernarfon, P'le buost ti neithiwr, Si hei lwli

A bunch of these lyrics are on the Caneuon Gwerin site, Most are also in the USA Gymanfa Association's book, Songs of the Dragon, and some are spoken and sung on the Cymdeithas Madog Guide To Welsh Folk Songs (a great cd for learners).

Clwb Malu Chacu (trash talk) is a great Yahoo group for Welsh learners - with many helpful and knowledgable folks. The group has been a very important part of my learning Welsh.

Rhaid i mi fynd yn hwylio ar Fflat Huw Puw.

Dydd Gwyl Dewi Sant Hapus, Chris yn Wheaton


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 06:27 AM

Well, I translated it for you, LandsLad - which I think is what you wanted - but bits of it didn't make much sense so I took it to my Welsh learners' singing group last night and checked it out with the Welsh tutor and a couple of native speakers. They agreed. (Saying farewell to Wales while standing in Ireland?) Anyway, sometimes it just doesn't pay to think too deeply about these things and it's a cracking good song so who cares?

Daeth diwrnod i ffarwelio
Ag annwyl wlad y Cyrmo
Gan sefyll ar hen dir y Werddon Fras;
Fe gododd gwynt yn nerthol
Y môr â'i donnau rhuthrol,
Gan olchi dros ein llestr annwyl las.

Dewch, Gymry glan, i wrando ar fy nghân
Fel bu y fordaith rownd yr Horn - rownd yr Horn!
Sef y trydydd dydd o'r wythnos
Ychydig cyn y cyfnos
Gan basio ger glân greigiau glannau Môn.

Rwy wedi mynd a dwad
Mewn llongau hardd eu gwelad
Ond dyma'r wyrcws benna gefais i,
Does yma ddim i'w fwyta
Ond gwaith sydd lond ein breichiau;
O, galon, pwy all beidio bod yn brudd?

So, roughly,

The day came to say farewell
To the dear land of the Welshman
Standing on the fertile Irish land **;
A wind heaved up
The sea and its rushing waves,
So washing across our blessed dear ship.

Come, good Welshmen, to listen to our song
Of our sea journey Around the Horn! Around the Horn!
That is, the third day of the week,
Just before dusk,
Passing near Anglesey’s fair rocky shores.

I’ve come and I’ve gone
In ships beautiful to see
But this is the worst workhouse I’ve ever experienced;
There’s nothing to eat
But there’s an armful of work;
O, my heart, who could but be downhearted?

I think maybe Ar Log recorded it on an album once as well, but I can't think which one off hand.

siân


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: pavane
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 09:26 AM

It probably makes sense - the ships for the New World often left from Ireland, so the Welshman could have made his way to Ireland first.


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Chris in Wheaton
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 11:43 AM

Sian - It seems surprising to me that there are not more song books in Wales that give English translations of the Welsh songs. I would think that this would be something that would sell at least to learners. Why do you think this is?

But I have been asking Sain to at least post the Welsh lyrics for the benefit of learners and others.

Thanks for the translation of Rownd Yr Horn - this weekend is the Chicago Matitime Festival - but I don't see any Welsh groups on the program. Pity. Maybe I should go and sing it for them.

Dydd Gwyl Dewi Sant Hapus hefyd, Chris yn Wheaton.


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 11:47 AM

Interesting - I posted, twice, and it didn't appear. Anyway ...

I was just saying that this might be the case but I'll have to find out more about the song. I thought it was one of the J Glyn Davies ones but it isn't in his collections as far as I can see. A lot of Welsh 'sea songs' aren't very old and were written 'for the market' and set to well-known sea tunes 'from away' like A-Roving and Miss Tickletoby Kept a School (how good a title is that???) J Glyn Davies also used a number of Scandanavian tunes.

If I find out more, I'll post.

Assuming the 'Cat will let me ...

siân


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 12:01 PM

Sian
Thank you so much for the translation. You have brought the song to life for me.
so many thanks
LL


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Peepo
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 11:38 AM

Could anyone give a brief indication (in english) of what this brilliant Cerys Matthews song is about?

I'd be so grateful!

Mi glywaf dyner lais

Yn galw arnaf i
I ddod a golchi meiau
Yn afon Calfari

Arglwydd dyma fi
ar dy alwad di
Canna fenaid yn y gwaed
A gaed ar galfari

Yr iesu sydd im gwadd
I dderbyn gydai saint
Fydd gobaith cariad pur a hedd
A phob rhyw nefol fraint

Arglwydd dyma fi
Ar dy alwad di
Canna fenaid yn y gwaed
A gaed ar galfari

Gogoniant byth am drefn
Y cymod ar glanhad
Derbynia iesu fel yr wyf
A chanaf am y gwaed


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 26 Feb 05 - 01:25 PM

It's the old hymn, Welcome Voice. Popular in North America.

I hear thy tender voice
Calling me
To come and wash my sins
In the River of Calvary

Chorus:
Lord, here I am
At your call
Wash my spirit in the blood
That flows from Calvary.

Jesus invites me
To receive with the saints (gyda'i saint that should be)
Faith, hope, pure love and peace
And all of heaven's honours.

Chorus again

Praise be forever
For the Atonement and the Cleansing
I will receive Jesus (Iesu) as I am
And I will sing in the blood (ie. 'the Blood of the Lamb' is the usual English idiom)

However, I think most of us would sing, "A channaf yn y gwaed", which means, "I will be washed clean in the blood." Don't know if Cerys is mis-remembering or trying to modernize, but the original 'cannaf' (two 'n's) refers back to the first verse.

A lovely hymn and very much part of the Welsh 'psyche'!

siân


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Stephen Murphy
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 09:26 AM

Can anyone translate the Hymn Hwiangerdd mair. I want to teach it to my kids in Welsh, but would like to explain what they're singing. Cheers
Stephen

Hwiangerdd Mair

Suair gwynt, suair gwynt
Wrth fyned heibio'r drws
A Mair ar ei gwely gwair
Wyliai ei baban tlws

Syllai yn ddwys yn ei wyneb llon
Gwasgai waredwr y byd at ei bron
Canai diddanol gan
Cwsg, cwsg fanwylyd bach
Cwsg nes daw'r bore iach

Cwsg am dro, cwsg am dro
Cyn daw'r bugeiliaid hyn
A dod, dod i seinio'r clod
Wele, mae'r doethion syn

Cwsg cyn daw Herod a'i gledd ar ei glun
Cwsg, fe gei ddigon o fod ar ddihun
Cwsg cyn daw'r groes i'th ran
Cwsg, cwsg fanwylyd bach
Cwsg nes daw'r bore iach

Cwsg, cwsg. X5


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Paul Burke
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 09:38 AM

Oh dear, Breezy's post 22 Feb 05 10:57:

"Dont bother, usually the translation into english doesnt do the original justice and I was welsh speaking, once upon a time.

Now its 2 down , 2 wins, what'll be the score this week end then?"

Via Welsh and Finnish:

Dont I - LETTER tire 'heartburn stock 'group version into Imperial parlance ) drift 'group 'heartburn original correctness I - LETTER go I - LETTER Welsh eloquent , journey sign period. Now 'I 2 down wins , case ll be 'group score this week croak 'I drift?


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 10:20 AM

Sorry. Very rough, but:

The Lullaby of Mary

The wind sooths, the wind sooths
As it passes the door
And Mary on her straw bed
Gazes down at her lovely baby.
She gazes deeply into his happy face,
She hugs the Saviour of the World to her breast,
She sings a comforting song:

Ch:
Sleep, sleep my dearest little one,
Sleep until the fine morning comes.

Sleep for a while, sleep for a while
Until these shepherds come;
And coming, coming to give praise,
Behold, the amazed wise men.
Sleep until Herod comes with his sword on his knee,
Sleep, you'll soon have enough of wakening**,
Sleep, until the Cross becomes your fate:

Ch.
Sleep, sleep my dearest little one,
Sleep until the fine morning comes.


** I didn't get that line right. The idea is that a time will come when he'll be desparate for sleep.

So, you've heard a recording of this? Which one? It's a favourite of mine. Excellent for women's choirs. Sung in chapel, it's quite usual for the women to sing the verses with the men joining in for the chorus.

sian


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 10:59 AM

Soon you'll be tired of staying awake?


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 02 Nov 06 - 12:16 PM

Yeh, that's kinda it. Presumably a reference to his last days. That, itself, is a tradition in Welsh carols, particularly Plygain carols (tho' this isn't one of those). They don't focus solely on the Nativity but weave in the whole story from birth to resurrection.

sian


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Aom
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 06:54 PM

Hei dwi di rhoi llun dy din ar hwn


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 02:32 PM

Mary's Lullaby is #395 in Caneuon Ffydd - Songs of Faith
Caneuon Ffydd


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 09:05 PM

Dewi Sant dydd Hapus y bore


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 10:12 PM

Pretty darn impossible.

You will need a literate (are there some?) and sober (there may be one) Welshman to CORRECTLY transcribe a written language.

This language makes the Irish Kelt look literate.

I believe the most recent Englishman trained in both languages is a prince and assigned to other duties.

The problem is much greater than phonics.

There is nothing "wonderful" or "secret" to be discovered.

Spend you time, singing, and drinking, and playing what you already know.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Anne Lister
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 03:40 AM

Gargoyle by name, Gargoyle by nature? Who rattled YOUR cage? Gratuitous insults to our literacy, sobriety and language - why? It's the oldest living language in Europe, with a totally coherent grammar and orthography but hey, let's go for the cheap shots. The orthography (sorry, Gargoyle - the SPELLING) is more logical than English. Oh, and you don't need to transcribe a written language, because by definition it's already written down.
The most recent Englishman known to Mudcatters who has achieved a remarkable level in Welsh is our very own Les Barker, by the way.

Anne (in Pontypool, and proud of it)


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 05:26 PM

rom: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 10:12 PM

Pretty darn impossible.

You will need a literate (are there some?) and sober (there may be one) Welshman to CORRECTLY transcribe a written language.


This language makes the Irish Kelt look literate.


I believe the most recent Englishman trained in both languages is a prince and assigned to other duties.


The problem is much greater than phonics.


There is nothing "wonderful" or "secret" to be discovered.


Spend you time, singing, and drinking, and playing what you already know.


Sincerely,
Gargoyle


a little boy looking for some attention, are we?

Charlotte (doesn't want to be baby sitting right at this moment)


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Subject: Arglwydd dyma fi - Cerys Matthews
From: GUEST,jegs11
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 02:19 PM

It means "Here I Am, Lord", and is the title of a popular hymn. The hymn goes like this:
1.
I, the Lord of sea and sky,
I have heard my people cry.
All who dwell in dark and sin,
My hand will save.

Chorus
Here am I, Lord. Is it I, Lord?
I have heard you calling in the night.
I will go, Lord, if you lead me.
I will hold your people in my heart.

2.
I, who made the stars of night,
I will make their darkness bright.
Who will bear my light to them?
Whom shall I send?

Chorus

3.
I, the Lord of snow and rain,
I have borne my people's pain.
I have wept for love of them.
They turn away.

Chorus

4.
I will break their hearts of stone,
Give them hearts for love alone.
I will speak my words to them.
Whom shall I send?

Chorus

5.
I, the Lord of wind and flame,
I will send the poor and lame.
I will set a feast for them.
My hand will save.

Chorus

6.
Finest bread I will provide,
'Til their hearts be satisfied.
I will give my life to them.
Whom shall I send?

Chorus
-----------
However, I don't know what Cerys Matthews is singing tho; —just thought I'd translate the title, and then got side-tracked...


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 01 Sep 08 - 04:37 AM

Cerys Matthews is singing what I posted in Feb 05. (Except, when I've heard her singing it live, she screws up the words badly. I suppose she just counts on the majority of her audience not knowing.) "Here I Am, Lord" is a completely different song.

sian


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - English/welsh
From: GUEST,jac
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 11:44 AM

my favourite subject is art becase its fun


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Trevek
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 01:13 PM

Beware of Welsh translations...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/7702913.stm


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Zima
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 02:30 PM

Hi, guys! I'm looking for the English lyrics of "The Maid From The Parish Of Penderyn". I came across this but I'm not sure it's really "The Maid..." since I'm not a Welsh speaker. If possible, could someone translate this for me, please?

Rw i'n caru merch o Blwÿf Penderÿn
Ac yn ei chanlÿn ers llawer dÿdd
Ni allswn garu ag un ferch arall
Er pan welais 'run gron ei grudd
Mae mor hawdded idd ei gweled
Er nad ÿw ond gronen fach
Pan elo i maas i rodio'r caeau
Hi ddÿd fy nghalon glaf yn iach

Rw i'n myned heno, dÿn a'm helpo
I ganu ffarwél i'r seren sÿw
A thyma waith i'r clochÿdd 'forÿ
I dorri 'medd o dan yr ÿw
A thor yn enw'n sgrifenedig
Ar y maen wrth fôn y pren
Fy mod i'n isel iawn yn gorwedd
Ar waelod bedd o gariad Gwen


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: breezy
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 02:46 PM

Im loving a bird from penderyn
for a few days
Other birds got no chance
strong
see
small
out to the field
my heart is fresh

Off tonight
To sing goodbye
tomorrow after work
break thoughts underneath
Writing me name
Stick
I'll be lying down low
With me daring Gwen

now this is very basic, I was 8 when   I started to pick up on English and Welsh fell away,   someone can do better please


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 14 Nov 08 - 06:45 PM

I love a girl from Penderyn parish
And I've been courting her for many a day
I couldn't love any other girl
Ever since I saw this round-faced girl.
It is so easy to watch her
Even though she's just a wee thing
When I go out to roam the fields
She heals my ailing heart.

I'm going tonight, God help me,
To say (sing) farewell to my little star
And tomorrow the bellringer will have work
Digging my grave under the yew tree
And writing my name
On the stone at the base of the tree
That I've been laid low
At the bottom of a grave for the love of Gwen.

There are some typos in the Welsh so, just in case anyone was 'harvesting' it, be aware. Nice song. We were just singing it a fortnight ago on our residential weekend ... I've not seen a singable English translation, but there may be one somewhere.

sian


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 11:19 AM

I learned Welsh at school between the ages of 8 and 12, 30+ years ago, and in all that time they never taught us GRAMMAR! Honestly, this modern educational system... So although I've retained a fair bit of vocabulary, I find written Welsh a real slog. Any verb form that doesn't use the infinitive ("Ydyt ti'n mynd i'r ysgol?" "Ydw, rydw i'n mynd i'r ysgol") has me foxed - and, while I know how the initial consonants on nouns mutate, I've only got the haziest idea why. ("Hywel Dda" - what's that about? He's not even feminine!)

There is a point to this, which is that this is a really useful resource for people like me; it's a dictionary of Welsh word endings. Use that to supplement a decent online dictionary (or even an actual ink-and-paper dictionary) and you should be sorted.


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 15 Nov 08 - 11:23 AM

Um, not just on nouns, obviously. I knew that.


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 03:22 PM

I wonder if anybody could translate Cariad Cyntaf for me - im struggling with some parts of it:

Mae prydferthwch ail i Eden
yn dy fynwes gynnes feinwen
fwyn gariadus liwus lawen,
seren syw, clyw di'r claf.

Addo'th gariad i mi heno
gwnawn amodau cyn ymado
i ymrwymo, doed a ddelo:
rho dy gred, a d'wed y doi.

Yn dy lygaid caf wirionedd
yn serennu gras a rhinwedd,
mae dy weld i mi'n orfoledd;
seren syw, clyw di'r claf.


Thanks so much in advance for any help with this x


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 18 Nov 08 - 05:46 PM

There is beauty second only to Eden
in your warm breast, maiden
gentle, loving, in gaiety, (not sure about 'liwus lawen'; ll think further)
gentle star, hear the unwell one (i.e. lovesick).

Tonight promise me your love,
We'll set the terms before we depart
to bind ourselves to each other, whatever may come:
Believe in me, and say you will come.

In your eyes I will find the truth
starshining with grace and virtue,
Seeing you is to me ecstasy,
gentle star, hear the lovesick one.


... more or less.

And - no name Guest? Generally I won't respond to nameless ones. But ... you did leave an 'x' so we'll forgive you this time.

sian


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Celtic Songstress
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 03:18 PM

Oh gosh sorry - I only realised afterwards I hadn't put a tag.

That's great - thankyou - it's filled the gaps for me x


P.S

"This language makes the Irish Kelt look literate"

pfff


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Zima
Date: 02 Dec 08 - 11:08 AM

Sian, breezy,
I can't say how grateful I am! THANK YOU GUYS!
A very beautiful melody. Now I know what it is about :) still hope to find a singable English translation :)


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Sue - west wales
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 11:02 AM

Finally I have found the translation for Arglwydd dyma fi. Does anybody know the title of a CD that has this hymn on??? (not Cerys Mathews CD - was thinking more of a choir or something?). Thank you. Sue.


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 11:39 AM

Arglwydd dyma fi - The Lord is with me

Is go d-teigh slan !


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Newport Boy
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 12:46 PM

Must be on numerous CDs - most male voice choirs record it. For my taste, it's a pity that most use accompaniment.

For how it should sound (IMO) try here - a nice small group - unfortunately, the clip loses that last few seconds of the Amen.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Sue - west wales
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 02:10 PM

Forgive my ignorance, but what does Is go d-teigh slan mean?? I've looked for CD's with it on but cannot find one anywhere - I have bought a framed print of the hymn in welsh and wanted to send a CD to go with it so that she can hear it. I'll have a look at the link but still need a CD if anyone has a title for me to search for. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Newport Boy
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 03:59 PM

It does seem difficult to find anything on the major labels, but here's two versions.

'Sacred and Special' by
Cowbridge Male Voice Choir (Sain Records - but obtainable from the choir.

'Welsh Gold' by
Cwmbach Male Voice Choir

The track is titled Gwahoddiad.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Sue - west wales
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 04:32 PM

Thank you so much - I have now managed to find a CD with Gwahoddiad on it - and have ordered it! Thanks for your valuable information - my Aunt will be delighted!!


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Sue - west wales
Date: 17 Dec 08 - 04:35 PM

Sorry - yet another question.......... is the translation earlier in this thread accurate?? I want to put the translation on the back of the framed print of the hymn but would like to be confident that it is fairly accurate although I know that it is difficult to translate exactly. Thanks


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 05:18 AM

I have a Welsh page on cresby.com and asked maybe 18 people to translate. Some were helpful on individual words and most declined, citing political minefileds. The last person did the final scan and that is how it stays.

I found that the websites are limiting and the problem can be grammar - it is not what you expect from English. This is true of other languages - I use people who might know to look at the page after my first try. Some from the 'Cat here. 17 langauges so far.

And there is the question, North Welsh, Southern Welsh, or Politically correct Welsh (usually written).


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Monmouth Alun
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 07:22 AM

Can anyone translate this old "plygain" carol please

Ar gyfer heddiw'r bore

Ar gyfer heddiw'r bore, 'n Faban bach, 'n Faban bach:
Y ganwyd gwreiddyn Jesse, 'n Faban bach
Y Cadarn daeth o Bosra, Y Deddfwr gynt ar Seina:
Yr iawn gaed ar Galfaria, 'n Faban bach, 'n Faban bach
Yn sugno bron Mareia, 'n Faban bach.

Caed bywiol ddwfr Eseciel, ar lin Mair. ar lin Mair:
A gwir Feseia Daniel, ar lin Mair.
Caed bachgen doedd Eseia, 'r aweddid roed i Adda.
Yr Alffa a'r Omega, ar lin Mair, ar lin Mair:
Mewn cor yn Methlem Jiwda, ar lin Mair.

Am hyn. bechadur brysiau. fel yr wyt fel yr wvyt
I mofyn am y noddfa, fel yr wyt.
I ti'r agorwyd ffynnon. a ylch dy glwyfau duon;
Fel eira gwyn yn Salmon, fel yr wyt, fel yr wyt:
Gan gynny tyrd yn brydion, fel yr wyt.


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 07:29 AM

Sue.West Wales: Sorry - yet another question.......... is the translation earlier in this thread accurate??

If you're asking about one Siân has given she usually states it it is only approximate, or rough.

Cheers
Nigel


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 10:26 AM

Sorry - y mae drwg i mi, bob -
"Is go d-teigh, slan", I believe, is "T'ra" in Irish, tho' I'm well prepared to be wrong.


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 05:59 AM

I've been away in Canada, but back now.

Re: Gwahoddiad, I did say that it was a translation of the English (American?) hymn "Welcome Voice" which can be googled with good results. Bryn - "Arglwydd Dyma Fi" translates more accurately as "Lord, Here I Am".

I imagine I'm too late for Monmouth Alun's request but:

On this day's morning, a little child, little child,
The stem of Jesse was born, a little child.
The Strength that came from Bosra, the long-ago Lawmaker of Sinai,
the Atonement given (us) on Calvary: a little child.

The living water of Ezecial was received, on Mary's lap, on Mary's lap
And the True Meseiah of Daniel, on Mary's lap.
Eseia's wise (doeth, not 'doedd') child, the promise given to Adam,
The Alpha and Omega, on Mary's lap, on Mary's lap,
In a manger in Bethlehem, Judea, on Mary's lap.

For this, sinner, hurry, just as you are, just as you are,
To seek the sanctuary, just as you are.
For you, the fountain has been opened, wash your blackened wounds
As white as the snows in Salmon, just as you are, just as you are,
For all this, hasten, just as you are.

There are a few typos so, just in case someone thinks of harvesting this for the database ...

Ar gyfer heddiw'r bore, 'n Faban bach, 'n Faban bach:
Y ganwyd gwreiddyn Jesse, 'n Faban bach
Y Cadarn daeth o Bosra, Y Deddfwr gynt ar Seina:
Yr iawn gaed ar Galfaria, 'n Faban bach, 'n Faban bach
Yn sugno bron Mareia, 'n Faban bach.

Caed bywiol ddwfr Eseciel, ar lin Mair. ar lin Mair:
A gwir Feseia Daniel, ar lin Mair.
Caed bachgen doedd Eseia, 'r aweddid roed i Adda.
Yr Alffa a'r Omega, ar lin Mair, ar lin Mair:
Mewn cor yn Methlem Jiwda, ar lin Mair.

Am hyn, bechadur, brysiau fel yr wyt fel yr wyt
I mofyn am y noddfa, fel yr wyt.
I ti'r agorwyd ffynnon, a ylch dy glwyfau duon;
Fel eira gwyn yn Salmon, fel yr wyt, fel yr wyt:
Gan hynny tyrd yn brydion, fel yr wyt.

Plygain carols, of which this is one, I generally find difficult to translate as they're very dense with biblical references. This is a very popular one, and sung on two different tunes generally - one much older than the other but both very singable.

sian


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Bryn Pugh
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 11:02 AM

Yes, indeed, Sian - thank you for this. Y mae drwg i mi !

Comes of not being a native speaker of Cymraeg, but having learned it as a "second" language. That's my excuse, any way :-)


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 08:15 PM

We were in Wales last October. We attended a practice of the Dolgellau Mens' Choir and after they did their practice, I asked if they would do Gwahoddiad. They did not sing the same chorus as we do in the US (which is the same as in Caneuon Fydd!). I would guess that they sang the same chorus as the one sung in the video linked above.
Sian, or anyone, can you give me the chorus that is sung in Wales, and any thoughts on why it differs from the one in Caneuon Fydd, the standard hymnal? It appears that the verses are the same, but I did not try to track this. Cerys sings the CF version, more or less, I think.

Our Welsh Church here (and most of Oregon and Washington) got snowed out for Christmas. But we're doing Lessons and Carols this Sunday, because you can't skip a Welsh Christmas.

Nadolig llawen i chi gyd, Chris in Portland (OR)

P.S. Is anyone re-thinking the global warming theory?


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 05:06 AM

Blwyddyn Newydd Dda, Chris!

I watched the video, and the only difference I could hear was that the (Cwmbach?) boys sang, "golchi'm puraf" (wash me purer) instead of "canna f'enaid" (whiten my soul). I think the latter is far more often heard; in fact, I can't think of too many occasions when I've heard "golchi'm puraf".

I've also looked in some of the Welsh denominational hymn books and they don't have the chorus at all. It first appeared in Wales in Ieuan Gwyllt's "Swn y Jiwbili, neu Ganiadau y Diwygiad" (1876) and later in Haydn Morris' "Sw^n y Jiwbili". Lewis Hartsough (Ithaca, NY) wrote the tune which is sometimes known as "Calvary" as well as the words; Ira D. Sankey said they were first published in "Guide to Holiness" and he included them in "Sacred Songs and Solos". In "Tonau a'u Hawduron" (Tunes and their authors), Huw Williams says that, "the tune, along with the original chorus, found it's way into Sacred Songs and Solos, and later into Alexander Hymns". So why the chorus got detatched in at least some hymnals is up for further research. Maybe the Methodist and Baptist publishers thought choruses were a bit too frivolous? Didn't stop the congregations from singing them, it seems.

My guess is that the minor differences in words have something to do with denominational politics; which denominations sang what hymns, or versions of what hymns, used to be very specific.

That's all I've got, anyway!

Hope your service went well.

sian


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Brian Williams Cwmbach Male Choir
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 05:54 AM

Sian,

Good to see healthy discussion on the beautiful hymn "Gwahoddiad" as sung by Cwmbach, and indeed by almost every male choir. Perhaps I could help answer your query on the verses appearing in text without the chorus. The verses are often sung to the tune "Sara", without including the chorus. Cwmbach Choir has included it in its repertoire but has never recorded it. It could explain the entry in Ieuan Gwyllt's hymnal that exclusdes the chorus. Another link: the first ever Gymanfa Ganu was conducted under Ieuan Gwyllt at Bethania Chapel, Aberdare, which of course is the home town of Cwmbach Male Choir. Cwmbach Male Choir would be happy to answre any queries about its works or history, and more can be found at www.cwmbach.com

Brian Williams
Choir Chairman


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 12:57 PM

Sian and Brian - thanks for the help. And Brian, we hope that the Choir is able to get to Portland again - we still talk about you all singing in our little church. Small world, for sure.
Diolch yn fawr, Chris


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Monmouth Alun
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 11:51 AM

Sian - Many many thanks for the translation of the plygain carol - not too late at all.


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 10:40 AM

yn brysur gyda gwaith cwrs blwyddyn tri

Can you tell me what this means in english?


    Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
    Thanks.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 11:23 AM

"Busy with year three course work"?


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 02:55 PM

Hi Brian

(Do I know you ... from WAMF maybe?)

Yeh, I've often sung the words to the tune, Sara, as well ... but the entries in the hymn books I was looking at had the verses, minus chorus, to the tune Gwahoddiad.

Rhydian Griffiths who used to be at the National Library might know the background. If I see him, I'll ask.

sian


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Brian Williams, Cwmbach Male Choir
Date: 19 Jan 09 - 09:59 AM

Hi Sian and Chris,

What a small world Chris. I was proud to be in Cwmbach Choir singing at the beautiful Bryn Seion Church in Beavercreek, Oregon in 2006. What A day we had with you, your hospitality was something we will never forget. Please remember the choir to your church members, and we do hope to return one day.

Sian,its a good idea to check out further info on Gwahoddiad without the chorus. Keep in touch,

Brian

www.cwmbach.com


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Subject: RE: Tech: On line translation - Welsh / English
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:22 AM

Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war.
Can i have the keltic translation of this sentence pls


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 09 - 08:13 AM

Seeking Wlesh translation of Sankey and Moddy hymn 'In the sweet by and by.' The translation is by Ieuan Gwyllt.


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Oct 09 - 02:08 PM

hello this is really interasting


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 05:30 AM

I missed the Sept posting. If that Guest is still searching, let me know. The words aren't in my collection of Welsh language revival hymns, or in the older hymnals (searching under the originators: Samuel F. Bennett and J. P. Webster) but if you're still looking, I'll ask around.

sian


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 07:17 AM

In case anyone's still looking for an online Welsh/English translator, I can recommend this:

Online Dictionary / Geiriadur ar-Lein

and especially this:

English/Welsh Meta-Dictionary

What's a meta-dictionary and why might you want one? The introduction describes it as:

an alphabetical listing of all the things you might want to try if you fail to find an item in a Welsh-English dictionary. For example, say you happened upon the word "trewaist" in your reading. You could look in an ordinary dictionary and find that "trew" means "sneeze", but it's a noun rather than a verb. You might be tempted to postulate that there is a verb "trewi*" for which the word you are seeking is a conjugated form, but you'd be wrong. If you look in the meta-dictionary under "trew-", you find that it is the stem for the verb "taro" before certain endings. You can also look up "-aist" to find that it is the ending for the 2.s. past ind. Putting it together you find that "trewaist" means "thou smotest", or in modern English, "you struck".

I learned Welsh at school for a few years, but went back to England before we'd got as far as conjugating a verb. The Welsh I learned - which I imagine was based on contemporary spoken South Walian Welsh - was more on the level of
Ydych chi'n hoffi te, Gwen?
Nac ydw, Gwyn, rydw i'n hoffi coffi.
*
than anything involving the words "thou smotest". Meanwhile of course** we were singing lots of songs and hymns written in grammatical Welsh, none of which us English-speakers could make head or tail of. (I remember trying to work out "Calon lân" with a dictionary; I got stuck on "wy'n".) So I really like the meta-dictionary - it's basically the bits of Welsh I wasn't taught, all in one place.

*Footnote For The English: "Do you like tea, Gwen? No, Gwyn, I like coffee".
**Footnote For The English: it really was "of course".


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 19 Oct 09 - 08:12 AM

Interesting links, Pip. The Lampeter one should be a good, plain dictionary; the college ran a popular Welsh-for-Adults summer school for many years. The Cardiff one is an oddity; without testing it out thoroughly, I'd think that it couldn't possibly fulfill its claims - but I'm quite likely wrong. I use the Cysgair/Cysill software package which is pretty good - but not all-encompassing either.

I sometimes switch my Facebook settings to 'Welsh' ... which is slightly disorienting at times!

sian


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,georgia
Date: 24 Dec 09 - 07:37 AM

I'm lasha qasrashvili


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Monmouth Alun
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 12:37 PM

does anyone have a translation of Lewis Valentine's hymn "Gweddi dros Gymru"


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Monmouth Alun
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 12:39 PM

Does anyone have a translation of Lewis Valentine's hymn "Gweddi dros Gymru" please?


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Monmouth Alun
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 12:42 PM

Can anyone help with the Welsh version of "may he rest in peace". A relative wants to inscribe it on her father's gravestone.


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 02 Mar 10 - 01:25 PM

Oh crikey. Well, "gorffwys mewn tangnefedd" or "huno mewn hedd" (or even gorffwys mewn hedd or huno mewn tangnefedd) would be 'rest in peace'. To make things even more complicated, the old-fashioned Bible Welsh would spell it "gorphwys". As this is to be, literally, written in stone, you sure don't want a mistake, so I suggest she phones the Link Line at Welsh Language Board who will help.

Re: Gweddi dros Gymru, I can't think if I've ever seen it in English. I always use the Welsh version, of course. The only place I can think you might find it is in the Oxford Book of Welsh Verse in Translation (not sure if that's the proper title). Did you want a singable translation? There's an off chance that there might be a choral arrangement with an English translation; if so, try contacting the Welsh Music Information Centre via tycerdd.org.

I had friend who passed away a couple of years ago who used to visit Valentine on a weekly basis. Spent many an interesting hour ...

sian


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Monmouth Alun
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 06:50 AM

Many thanks for this - I will follow up as suggested


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 07:12 AM

I was speaking to the daughter of the friend I mentioned above and we're both thinking that it isn't too likely that there is an English translation of the poem; not an official one anyway. Translating it would kinda go against the cultural convictions of Valentine, or his heirs ...

Still, if you find one, I'd be interested in seeing it.

sian


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Switch Evans
Date: 03 Mar 10 - 07:20 AM

I cant find a proper online translator from english to welsh for my course work please can somebody help ?


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Subject: seeking english to welsh translation
From: GUEST,belled
Date: 03 May 10 - 07:30 PM

Can anyone please help me translate a phrase from english to welsh? The prahse is 'lest we forget', I have only been able to get literal translations for each word which isn't very accurate, any help would be great.


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 04 May 10 - 04:31 AM

I think we've already established that online translators just do NOT do the job ... and I sure as heck wouldn't use them for course work! Crikey!

Re: "Lest we forget", this is a good example of why word-for-word translation doesn't work. The sentiment is expressed within the cultural framework of the community. The phrase "Lest we forget" resonates with a large segment of the English-speaking world. In Welsh, it would be "Eu haberth nid a'n angof" (their sacrifice will not be forgotten" often shortened to "Nid a'n angof", particularly if you are referring to an individual rather than a group.

sian


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,belled
Date: 05 May 10 - 12:04 AM

Thanks alot Sian, I am an Australian with Welsh Ancestory and I have always wondered what 'lest we forget' would be in Welsh, I would love to get it inscribed on something in mygrandfather's memory. How would the phrase be pronounced.. i know with celtic languages the written word is often completely different to how its said!


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 05 May 10 - 08:31 AM

"Nid a'n angof" - need ahn ANG-ove. In speech, the 'f' is often dropped, so it would sound like 'ANG-oh'

It was used in a famous Welsh englyn (Welsh verse form) written by Ellis Humphrey Evans, better known as Hedd Wyn, who died in WWI weeks before winning the Eisteddfod Chair.

Ei aberth nid â heibio, - ei wyneb
Annwyl nid â'n ango',
Er i'r Almaen ystaenio
Ei dwrn dur yn ei waed o.

His sacrifice will not pass - his face
dear* will not be forgotten,
Although Germany has stained
Its iron fist in his blood.

(that is, 'dear face' but I didn't want to break the englyn style)

On my father's grave, we've put lines by John Ceiriog Hughes who was from the same parish as my father:

Mab y mynydd ydw innau
Oddi gartre yn gwneud cân
Ond mae nghalon ar y mynydd
Hefo'r grug ac adarn mân.

I am the son of the mountain
Far from home singing my song
But my heart is on the mountain
With the heather and the little birds.

That ought to confuse some archaeologists digging up a Canadian cemetary some centuries hence!

sian


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST
Date: 10 May 10 - 06:27 AM

That welsh verse sounds beautiful. I have also heard that 'Fel nad â'n angof' also means 'lest we forget' - is that true? and what is the difference between the translations?


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 19 May 10 - 04:54 AM

???

I don't get why you're asking; the exchange between myself and belled says just that.

Another Welsh phrase expressing the sentiment is "Mewn angof ni chant fod", lit. 'in forgetfulness/oblivion they will not be'.

sian


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Liz
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 05:17 AM

Maybe this isn't the right place to ask, but I've found this site so fascinating, anyway... Does anyone know where I can find the words to the Welsh hymn with the chorus 'Dyma fy stori, dyma fy nghan' please? I heard the hymn on the televised Gymanfa Ganu from Ebbw Vale Eisteddfod. I know the hymn in English and would really like to get the Welsh words for it.
Thank you


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: Monique
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 06:48 AM

There?


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 02:05 PM

I take it that the song Liz is looking for is a Welsh version of "Blessed Assurance."

-Joe-

Since Monique is shy about posting lyrics from another Website, here 'tis:

Sicrwydd bendigaid

Sicrwydd bendigaid! Iesu yn rhan,
Hyn ydyw ernes nef yn y man;
Aer iachawdwriaeth, pryniant a wnaed,
Ganed o'r Ysbryd, golchwyd a'i waed.

Dyma fy stori, dyma fy nghan,
Canmol fy Ngheidwad hawddgar a glan;
Dyma fy stori, dyma fy nghan,
Canmol fy Ngheidwad hawddgar a glan.

Ildio'n ddiamod, perffaith fwynhad,
Profi llawenydd, nefol ryddhad;
Engyl yn disgyn, dygant i'm clyw
Adlais trugaredd, cariad fy Nuw.

Idio'n ddiamod, dyma fy hedd,
Allwedd fy nghysur, Iesu a'i medd;
Aros a disgwyl, disgwyl bob dydd,
Llonni yng nghariad Arglwydd y ffydd.

FRANCES J. VAN ALSTYNE, 1820-1915
efel.GWILYM R. TILSLEY

source: http://purplefishie.wordpress.com/2010/07/09/dyma-fy-stori-dyma-fy-nghan/


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Aug 10 - 10:26 AM

Thanks Joe,
Just visited this thread & that brought a smile to my face!

Cheers
Nigel


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: GUEST,Kelly - cwmbach welsh wizard
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 04:57 PM

Hi, i am trying to track down the lyrics to 'cwsg lwli cwsg'and can't seem to find them anywhere. Please help!!


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: sian, west wales
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 06:02 AM

Can't say I know it from that phrase. A lullaby but ... ? Have you any more?

sian


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Subject: RE: seeking online translator - Welsh / English
From: Chris in Portland
Date: 04 Mar 11 - 09:13 AM

"Blessed Assurance" was written by Fanny Crosby (married full name, Frances J. Van Alstyne) - according to Wikipedia -

Crosby was visiting her friend Phoebe Knapp as the Knapp home was having a large pipe organ installed. The organ was incomplete so, using the piano, Mrs. Knapp played a new melody she had just composed. "What do you think the tune says?" asked Knapp.

"Blessed assurance, Jesus is mine", answered Fanny Crosby.

They don't make 'em like that any more!
Chris

ps - Google Books has some great Welsh hymnals - See Odlau'r Efengyl -
18885 - great Welsh words by Watcyn Wyn to the great revival hymns.


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