Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade

Subject: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Viracocha
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:14 AM

Hi, how many people remember songs from Rainbows, Brownies, Guides, Cubs, Beavers, Scouts, or Boys/Girls Brigade? If I remember rightly, they were mostly sort of camping songs. I remember a couple of songs, just about, but as I remember there were songs I learnt in these that I've never heard elsewhere. Where did the leaders learn the songs from, I wonder? Special books?

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:22 AM

I work with a scoutmaster so I'll ask him tomorrow. Both my father and father in law were scout masters but they are both dead. I left the scouts a long time ago so I forget, but I don't remember any book.

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:23 AM

Google scout songs!

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 04:27 AM

Time someone considered how much song learning in these uniformed groups contributes to the ongoing life of singing. In a book of Scottish kids songs I have just finished I labelled several as Brownie Songs, having been passed on and I think reshaped in that setting, and I think that several others the kids gave me had similar sources. I also include a couple I learned in the Scouts, and others reported to me as learned in Guides. [And a few gathered through Mudcat -hurrah!]
One class four months ago sang me a fine bunch of 'camp songs', all of them fine modern American songs.

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Kampervan
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 05:08 AM

I served my time in the Boys Brigade. Our troop was attached to a Methodist Church and I can't remember that we went in for singing very much at all.

The only one that springs to mind was a sort of hymn called "Will your anchor Hold". I think this was the official B.B. anthem, but I'm not sure.

It was a very very long time ago.

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Susan of DT
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 06:16 AM

There have been many threads on scout songs and there are quite a number of girl scout songs in the digital tradition. There are several song books mentioned in earlier threads.

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Anne Lister
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 06:46 AM

I still have a small collection of song books that I bought and used when I was in the Guides here in the UK. There used to be day-long courses in campfire singing as well, so they could teach some of the more complicated harmony songs - and I did a badge in campfire songs. The songs still surface in my repertoire when I'm working with children so yes, it's worth remembering just what an immense contribution this whole practice has made to singing in general.

I even heard tell that Paul McCartney was renowned for his Elvis impersonations when he was a Boy Scout (a little known part of his history, but this story came first hand from someone who was in the Scouts with him).

Anne

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 02:03 PM

Camp fire songs are best learnt at camp fires, not from books. Most of them are pretty simple and easy to learn. As such, they don't mean much unless they are performed with a somewhat over the top enthusiasm. Many of them have actions which are easy to show but difficult to write down.

Camp fires form part of the oral tradition and may be the first contact young people have for singing in an informal setting. They are thus a corner stone of folk music. I went to my first camp fire as a Cub aged 9 and, as an adult, I having been passing those songs down to generations of kids for almost 40 years.


DC

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 02:06 PM

We've had lots of those songs posted at Mudcat. Here are groupings of most of them:

• Girl Scout Favorites

• Camp Songs

• Naughty Kids' Hits

• Songbook Indexing

The "Naughty Kids" songs are the ones I think of as real camp songs, despite what the adult leaders said.
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Gurney
Date: 07 Aug 07 - 10:17 PM

My lady has a 'Youth Hosteller's Songbook' which has many of the sort of songs that at least scouts and guides sing.
As far as I can remember, and as Doug Chadwick implies, it is an oral transmission process. Local scoutmasters here have printed out some of the words, and some of the sketches that cubs and scouts do, but I've never seen an official songbook. I'd like to, though. Perhaps a Mudcat project? There should, perhaps, be American and English versions, because although there is a large overlap, I noticed on previous threads that there are differences.

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Mo the caller
Date: 08 Aug 07 - 01:38 AM

I agree with Kampervan, I was in the GLB (now called Girls Brigade), and the companies were closely linked with a local church, so the singing was mostly hymns.
But in the Cadets (Brownie age, now called Explorers) we did singing games like 'Punchinella' and 'Peter Hammers with One Hammer'

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Viracocha
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 03:50 AM

Thanks everyone. Anyone remember this?

We are the red men
Tall and [quaint?]
In our feathers
And warpaint-

Pow wow
Pow wow
We are the men of the old ton cow
[my sister sang "old tin can" - made more sense, but didn't rhyme]

All of us are red men
Feathers in our head men
[spooky deep voice]Down among the dead men
[nornal voice]Pow wow

We come home
From fights and wars
Greeted by our
Long-nosed Squaws

Pow wow
Pow wow
We are the men of the old ton cow
[my sister sang "old tin can" - made more sense, but didn't rhyme]

All of us are red men
Feathers in our head men
[spooky deep voice]Down among the dead men
[nornal voice]Pow wow


And I think there was another verse in the middle about 'Sticks and stones/Bows and arrows/Slings and bones'...

-Viracocha

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Viracocha
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 04:21 AM

Oh, and it had actions...

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 04:38 AM

I remember it well!

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 05:45 AM

G'day Viracocha,

Here in Australia, when the Scouting organisation decided to put first together and publish their own ... some time in the '40s or early '50s ... my Dad was one of those who worked on the collection.

This was largely a business of finding the words to all your favourite songs and contributing them to the growing pile ... then editing it down to something the organisation could afford to print - and that would fit into the breast pocket of Scouting uniform!

Regards,

Bob

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Viracocha
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 08:07 AM

Bob: So a lot of songs would end up being changed over time, just so they'd fit? That seems rather a shame.

It does sound like an interesting job, though. Did he have to trek all over Austalia? And (just out of interest, since it is Australia) do you have any influences from Aboriginal culture in your 'camping' songs?

-Viacocha

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 10:10 AM

Well we sang 'old dun cow', which makes as much sense as anything else.

We can fight with sticks and stones,
Bows and arrows, bricks and bones...

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: HouseCat
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 12:20 PM

In Girl Scouts, we sang,

Make new friends, but keep the old,
One is silver and the other is gold...

And this old Girl Scout can't recall the rest but I remember thinking it was lovely, anybody else recall it?

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Lizabee
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 06:17 PM

When I was a Guide leader I simply passed on the songs I'd leant mysel as a brownie, a guide, an ranger / young leader and then a guider round variouse camp fires, at varius camps and occasional coach rides. Guides sing, each unit has it's own particular favorate songs, which they may swap / pass on when they meet with girls from other units.... and so it goes on
A bit like moving from one folk club to another & nicking the best songs of the regulars at the 'old' folk club to sing at where ever you've moved house to ;) opps did I say nick.. obviously I meant collect ;)

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: dulcimer42
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 07:16 PM

HouseCat: We sang that one, with anothe song overlapping:
Sing sing together, merrily, merrily sing
Sing sing together, merrily, merrily sing
Sing sing sing sing.

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: GUEST,Kevin Parker
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 07:32 PM

Hi, I'm a current Cub Scout Leader, and Adult Trainer for the Scout Association. We don't formally train people in camp fire songs, although perhaps we should these days. In the UK adult leaders do get trained in a large number of areas, from child protection to activity design and camp fire lighting and its probably a question of time. As Lizabee says you tend to pass on songs you remember, songs you know and songs you 'steal' from other leaders. Certainly cubs (8-11) are pretty receptive to lots of stuff - the classic songs with actions (Father Abraham), pop songs, through to good gory folk ballads (twa corbies, Sir Patrick Spens).

Having said that there are some song books and lists out there. If you are in the UK go to http://www.scoutbase.org.uk/ and enter 'campfire songs' in the search box and a couple of books will come up.

For the US I found this site, although I can't vouch for the quality of all the songs:
http://www.scoutsongs.com/

In general, local scout groups are pleased to hear from folk/acoustic musicians who'd like to visit, perform, and demonstrate their instruments/songs......

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: The Walrus
Date: 16 Aug 07 - 07:50 PM

I'll throw another organisation into the pot.

Having been in Cubs and Scouts (or more accurately Wolf Cubs and Boy Scouts, in those days) I joind the Army Cadets and there the songs were sung in the back of a 'three-tonner' (lorry) rather than around camp fires, but the effect was the same, songs (albeit generally bawdier than those of the Scout camp) were learned as part of an oral tradition, picked up from earlier members, from fathers, uncles and elder brothers who had served in the Army(the last conscripts been had demobbed only few years earlier) and from older cadets were learned, sung, twisted, adapted and passed on to newer cadets.

To return to Scouting.
I don't remember ever seeing a Scout songbook (I suppose there must have been one), every scouting song I learned was by oral tradition - strangely enough, even now, the occasional snatch of tune or round from Scout camp pops into my head for no apparent reason.

W

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: LindsayInWales
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 08:09 AM

In Brownies (9th St Albans Abbey) in about 1958/9 I remember "Ging Gang Gooly", "Punchinello", "In A Cottage In A Wood", and the one previously mentioned about "We're The Men Of The Old Dun Cow"...a closing song at the end of the meeting, "Day is done, gone the sun, from the sea, from the hills, from the sky", was it all really almost 40 years ago

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Aug 07 - 09:06 AM

My father was a King's Scout - any others about?

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Viracocha
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 04:39 AM

Thank you everyone. Sorry I've been away so long - I was on a long weekend in London, without internet access.
---
Les from Hull: that was it! Thank you. I can't imagine Native Indians fighting with bricks, though...
---
As to the others - I hardly recognise any of the songs (and I can't help with the "One is silver and the other is gold" song, I'm sorry). I agree with Lizabee in that they do seem to be like little folk groups. Some groups obviously are more religious than others - I never did any hymns or psalms in Rainbows, Brownies or Guides.
---
LindsayInWales: The only ones I recognise are "We are the Men of the Old Dun Cow" (we called it "we are the red men") and the ending one:

Day is done
Gone the sun
From the sea
From the hills
From the sky
All is Well
Safely Rest
God is Nigh

Though I also rememeber the ending song from Rainbows, to the sound of bells ringing the hour. We all joined hands in a circle and swung our arms wildly like bells. I still sometimes sing in quietly in my head when I hear bells ringing it out:

Oh Lord our God
Thy chil-dren call
Grant us Thy peace
And bless us all
[run in to the centre, hands still joined; whisper]Goodnight.
[run out, hands still joined; bellow]GOODNIGHT!!!

---
Songs I sang in Rainbows/Brownies/Guides include:
-We are the red men / We are the Men of the Old Dun Cow
-Everywhere we go
-Alice the Camel
-3 Little Angels

And that's all I can remember at the moment, sorry.

-Viracocha

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: BB
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 04:58 AM

There was also Woodcraft Folk, which I think was formed in order to avoid the rather military aspects of the others. They definitely had song books, and many of the songs therein were folk songs. I only came across the organisation some 25-30 years ago (not when I was young!), so don't know much more than that, I'm afraid.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Anne Lister
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 07:13 AM

There's also a lively song tradition still around in Forest School Camps, and they've got some songs in their collective memories that are intriguing, to say the least.

Anne
once a Queen's Guide, always a Queen's Guide ...

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Penny S.
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 02:51 PM

My Dad was in the BB, and I remember seeing a small pocket sized song book. There was one song about being an orderly upon the orderly day, as I recall.

Penny

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Penny S.
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 03:05 PM

In addition, my father became a conscientious objector in WW2, and apparently, so did a considerable number of his fellow BB members, so the military look of the thing was misleading.

Penny

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Bonecruncher
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 07:38 PM

As a Cub, Scout, Queen's Scout and Scouter for 30 years I well remember the Camp fires.
Yes, there were song books. The Gilwell Camp Fire Song Book was one, a suitable size for a breast pocket as mentioned above. At one time I had another songbook, about A5 in size, which I bekieve was called The Scout Song Book.
Many song books were put together by Scout districts, or sometimes by town or city groups of Scouts and were of limited publication.
The closing song mentioned above, "Day is done, Gone the sun....." was known as "Taps". There was another closing song sometimes sung - "O Come and Go With Me, To My Father's House".
I well remember a Wareham Wail a few years ago when Lizabee and I got many people singing old camp fire songs around the fire upon which the pig had been roasted.
If you see someone at a late night impromtue sing, wearing a blanket covered with Scout badges it could well be me.
A quick trawl on Google looking for "Scout Song books - UK" came up with the folowing which could be of interest to someone. www.activityvillage.co.uk/scouts_guides_and_brownies.htm

Colyn.

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: The Walrus
Date: 20 Aug 07 - 07:42 PM

Penny S wrote:
"...In addition, my father became a conscientious objector in WW2, and apparently, so did a considerable number of his fellow BB members, so the military look of the thing was misleading..."

I can't help thinking that this was reaction to the Great War, rather than the effect of the BB.

Somewhere in my collection I have an early BB training manual which includes arms drill (Martiny-Henry carbines), and, IIRC, the Boys Brigade provided a battalion of the KRRC during the Great War.

I think the religious-militarism was genuine, but against the background of the War and with the atmosphere of pacefism in the interwar period such an outlook was doomed.

W

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: The Walrus
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 02:46 AM

Apologies for the thread drift.

W

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Viracocha
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 08:16 AM

No problem. I'm finding this all very interesting. There's a lot of different societies I'd never heard of, as well. Thanks.

So does anyone remember this?:

I like bananas
Monkey-nuts and grapes
That's why they call me
TARZAN OF THE APES!

-Viracocha

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Mr Happy
Date: 21 Aug 07 - 08:58 AM

A fiend of mine who'd been in the Boys Brigade when he was a lad was very keen for his own sons to join up.

I remember him being most annoyed when he found that the juniors section had been re-named 'The New Anchor Boys'

Careful how you say it!!

Subject: RE: Brownies, Scouts, Boys/Girls Brigade
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 22 Aug 07 - 09:31 AM

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