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Rainsong guitars

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GUEST,jeff 14 May 09 - 02:49 AM
mandotim 14 May 09 - 03:18 AM
Richard Bridge 14 May 09 - 04:38 AM
mandotim 14 May 09 - 07:19 AM
DonMeixner 14 May 09 - 08:29 AM
GUEST,TJ in San Diego 14 May 09 - 03:58 PM
Midchuck 14 May 09 - 04:47 PM
Midchuck 14 May 09 - 04:56 PM
GUEST,jeff 15 May 09 - 04:43 AM
mandotim 16 May 09 - 03:22 AM
Richard Bridge 16 May 09 - 05:39 AM
open mike 16 May 09 - 10:27 AM
Midchuck 16 May 09 - 10:44 AM
Stringsinger 16 May 09 - 01:28 PM
GUEST,jeff 20 May 09 - 01:27 PM
mandotim 20 May 09 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,jeff 21 May 09 - 11:17 AM
GUEST,stroknvettn 08 Dec 09 - 10:55 PM
Stringsinger 09 Dec 09 - 07:55 PM
Ebbie 10 Dec 09 - 12:21 AM
GUEST,Steamin' Willie 22 Jul 10 - 10:28 AM
Richard Bridge 22 Jul 10 - 05:44 PM
mandotim 23 Jul 10 - 02:16 AM
Trevor Thomas 26 Oct 11 - 10:22 AM
GUEST,brick diamond 15 Aug 12 - 02:27 AM
GUEST,brickdiamond 15 Aug 12 - 02:32 AM
Musket 15 Aug 12 - 05:17 AM
Mooh 15 Aug 12 - 07:49 AM
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Subject: Rainsong guitars
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 14 May 09 - 02:49 AM

Had an opportunity to play some Rainsong guitars today for the first time. The JM1000 is the finest sounding guitar I've ever had in my hands. Bar none. My friend with me is one of the top session bass players in Nashville and he said he's never heard anything like it in his 40+ year career. It was just as loud and clear on notes in the upper register as it was playing 1st position bluegrass licks and counter rhythms. Easy action w/o buzzing at all. Every note clear and bell-like. Fingerpicked it was as sweet as one could ask for w/o losing any of it's punch. The bass notes were unbelievably clear, punchy, 'bassy' and loud. They had pre-war Martins, Gibsons, etc. for up to and including 10 times the price and the Rainsong jumbo BLEW them all away...wasn't even close.

Our main question was, 'why aren't these being used on the road and in sessions more?' They're VERY reasonably priced @ 2250.00US for a top-notch guitar. The only answaer is that guitarists are notoriously conservative re the instrument itself and are slow to accept radical concepts...and rightfully so. Few work. This is different. Try one...even the WS models were unbelievable though not quite as bassey, they blew away anything in their size class, too.

BTW, I'm not a shill either. Composite's are the next evolution of guitar building. Wood's had it's run and will never be fully duplicated, but w/dwindling natural resourses composites are the future...now. They may not 'age' as a wood guitar does, but they don't have to...they sound incredible right out of the box. Try one you'll be amazed.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: mandotim
Date: 14 May 09 - 03:18 AM

I have a WS1000, and it's the best 'working' guitar I've ever owned. I have/have had some really good guitars, including Martins, Armstrongs, Taylors and Gibsons, and the Rainsong is right up there. The others will do one thing better than the Rainsong maybe, (e.g. bass on the Armstrong is louder)but none of them match it on all-round playability and versatility. One other thing; if you scratch them, it doesn't mean a refinishing job. Just use T-Cut and then polish with Autoglym hard finish car polish (that's what the maker recommends!) Good as new. Unaffected by temperature or humidity, very light to hold and always stay in tune. Loads of volume and a clear,ringing tone. Great electrics too.
Tim


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 May 09 - 04:38 AM

I'd like to try one of the dreadnoughts, but they are very dear over here in the UK. I generally prefer the big thud of a dreadnought even to full-size (J200) jumbos, and surely the Rainsong is more like Grand Concert size (or maybe J180) than real jumbo.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: mandotim
Date: 14 May 09 - 07:19 AM

Hi Richard; Rainsong make a wide range of body shapes, including a 'true' dreadnought. The JM1000 described in the original post is actually slightly deeper than the equivalent J200 shapes, and my Grand Auditorium size WS1000 is a lot deeper than the Martin/Taylor equivalents. The WS1000 has plenty of 'thud', I've used it occasionally in a Bluegrass band with no problems. It's not quite a pre-war D18, but it'll comfortably match modern Martin dreads. Maybe we'll run into each other sometime; you're most welcome to have a play!
Tim


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: DonMeixner
Date: 14 May 09 - 08:29 AM

I've played two Rainsong guitars. And while they did the job there is nothing about them that would make me seek one out and buy it. They both had nice actions but the edges of the finger boards were almost sharp. Uncomfortable to play some chords on. Acoustically I found them to be a little brittle sounding. The only warmth I found was when I equalized the electronic mix to be so. Their appearnce wasn't to my taste so it is unfair to critique them beyond that.

I have friends who use them on stage and feel that they are fine stage instruments. But for the price I'll stick with wood for the now. Eventually the composite instruments will be the only way to go
but for now I won't hasten the departure of wood.

Don


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 14 May 09 - 03:58 PM

I've not had the pleasure of handling or playing a Rainsong as yet, though I am curious after reading this. However, I agree with Don Meixner regarding a personal preference for wood. The look, feel and warmth of well-crafted wood instruments, even before you get to the sound, is a very desirable thing. There is something life-affirming about wood - pipe smokers and their briars, craftsmen and their furniture, for example, that transcends the mere function of the item at hand. Some would call it "soul," I suppose. It reflects craft and artistry, rather than science and technology. I'm sure the same has been said of Ovation.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Midchuck
Date: 14 May 09 - 04:47 PM

I essentially agree with Don and TJ, BUT I don't think that's the point, in the real world.

I have had a Rainsong OM for about 2 years now. I do maybe 85% of my total playing on it, even though I have several guitars, two of which are superb.

The point IS that: 1) the Rainsong sounds as good as any of my instruments except those two superb ones; and only slightly less good than those two, (plus which, it has a lot of volume for its size) and, 2) I DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT. I can take it anywhere, in any temperature (that won't kill me outright anyway) and any humidity, in nothing but a cheap gigbag. Hell, it probably wouldn't care if I used no case at all. I can leave it out of the case, hanging on the wall, any time of the year. (Vermont has warm, damp summers, and cold, mostly dry - VERY dry if you use wood for part of your heat) winters.) I can take it to the wrong kind of party, and if someone vomits old beer on it, I just yell "BAR TOWEL" - unless it gets on the electronics. I don't have to kill anyone.

Last summer at Kamp I was playing it

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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Midchuck
Date: 14 May 09 - 04:56 PM

Sorry about that prior post getting cut off. Hit "submit" too soon by mistake. I think I made my point, anyway.

P.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 15 May 09 - 04:43 AM

My question for Don Meixner is when? Because they were reputed to have had a few problems when they first came out years ago. And I wasn't suggesting to 'hasten the departure of wood'. I was simply blown away that it played AND sounded THAT much better than guitars 50 years older and 10 times the price.

LIKE Mandotim I've owned alot of different guitars...one even handmade to the specs of the prototype Ditson D1 or D2. 12 frets to the body, dreadnaught, slotted head, black walnut sides/back, mahoghany neck, red cedar top, light bracing, etc. Had a Gurian S3M and a 57 D-18, 64 D-18S...you get the idea. I've played Olsens, Loudens, Santa Cruz, etc.

Right now I've an Alvarez DY-39 w/a solid top/lam sides and back w/a Baggs system. Great sound for a 550.00 investment. The JM1000 is perfectly suited to my playing style(s) and will be impervious to humidity/temperaure changes when working internationally. Too bad they don't make a line of celtic/bluegrass instruments like the mandolin, mando-cello, mandola, octave mandolin, irish bouzouki and cittern. I think they'd make a dent for ease of transport. Wonder if they'd consider making an acoustic bass similar to the Guild B50 or B30. Time to start saving and selling...

BTW, Dean makes a Flying V acoustic...sounds like shit, but looks totally cool.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: mandotim
Date: 16 May 09 - 03:22 AM

Guest Jeff; try here for carbon fibre mandolins. Peter Mix used to be one of the leading lights in the much-lamented Rigel mandolin maker, and I've played one of these new carbon fibre mandolins...you think the Rainsongs are good! Peter has produced a truly exceptional mandolin by any standards. The design and development was overseen by Will Kimble, who is fast becoming a superstar luthier. not cheap, but a comparable 'traditional' wooden mandolin is much more expensive.
Tim


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 16 May 09 - 05:39 AM

Oooh! That IS a lot of money!


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: open mike
Date: 16 May 09 - 10:27 AM

are these the graphite guitars you are supposed to be able to play under a water fall?


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Midchuck
Date: 16 May 09 - 10:44 AM

are these the graphite guitars you are supposed to be able to play under a water fall?

I'm not planning on it, but if you put coated strings on one, and you didn't care if the electronics got wrecked, you probably could.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Stringsinger
Date: 16 May 09 - 01:28 PM

One of the important things that I look for in a guitar is the ability to play with medium heavy strings with a traditional New Orleans type band. I prefer not to use the pickups even though I have a Rare Earth single coil for certain occasions. My Martin 0021 cuts right through and sounds great with a condenser mic at the sound hole (not built-in).

Does the Rainsong have the same kind of ability to equal the sound of a good acoustic wood guitar when played forcefully in this kind of band?

Frank


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:27 PM

Thanks Mandotim...it's been awhile since I've been online, so forgive my seeming lack of an rs. Like RB says, "Oooh, that's alot of money!" I listened to the video posts and even the 'entry level'(for 3400.00US)units sound phenomenal. I'd be in for about 1/2 that amount.

Stringsinger: From what I heard, acoustically I'd venture the WS1000 would cut through BETTER than the 0021. They're LOUD guitars and weigh next to nothing. All I can suggest is that you try one...bring your guitar and compare. They come stock w/a Fishman setup...I prefer a Baggs transducer w/a Joe Mills mic, but that's just me. Over the next year or so as my CD release(s) sell(hopefully) it's my intent to purchase the JM1000 for touring purposes. I'll have the electronics changed out to my preference.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: mandotim
Date: 20 May 09 - 01:37 PM

Guest jeff: if the Rainsong you saw had a Fishman Prefix blender pickup, it's old stock. They changed to Baggs over two years ago.
Tim


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 21 May 09 - 11:17 AM

Thanks again, Tim,

Yes this one had the Fishman set-up and the music store was asking 2250.00. Musician's Friend has them for the same price. I'll have to check on whether they are 'old stock'. Have seen them on e-bay for as little as 1850.00 'buy it now', but w/t Fishman. Almost bought one, but now that I'm aware of the Baggs switch I'm glad I didn't. That's an invaluable tip and I appreciate your sharing it.

BTW, those Mix mandolins are phenomenal. Listened to several of the video clips and was dumbstruck a/t clarity and punch. They're just too expensive for me, presently.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: GUEST,stroknvettn
Date: 08 Dec 09 - 10:55 PM

Ya, this is an older thread, but I hafta say that I was hugely impressed with the very first, early Rainsong I got my hands on. I have a friend who enjoys his via a high-end Line-6 and the union is purely awesome. I'd grab one N-O-W!!! if funds were available...

-F-


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Dec 09 - 07:55 PM

I have tried the Rainsong and it doesn't cut through a band as well as my 0021.
I keep my action not too but fairly high and use medium strings John Pearse.
The Rainsong needs a pickup. My Martin just needs a good mic. The 0021 is one
of the best balanced guitars. Josh White used one for years.

I'll stick with my Martin.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Dec 09 - 12:21 AM

Kray Van Kirk used to tour before he stopped in Juneau to pursue a PHD. Several years back he frazzled the finish on several guitars at a Fairbanks, Alaska, gig. He switched to Rainsong and has two of them nowadays. They sound fine to me- they hold nothing back, that's for sure. They give everything they've got.

He says the best thing about them is that he doesn't have to worry about them.

That said, I still wouldn't want one. There is something about wood...


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: GUEST,Steamin' Willie
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 10:28 AM

Last week I bought a Rainsong OM1000. it wasn't cheap, but the shop in Doncaster sold it to me for £1,700.00 to include the hard case, and that was a fair price compared to the prices I had seen on line.

Now... I had gone to buy a second hand Fylde they had in for about the same money. I noticed the Rainsong and gave it a try. I compared it to the Fylde, also various Martin / Taylor / Gibsons of around the same money.

The Rainsong had more clarity, was easier to play over prolonged periods, had an acoustic volume that defies the small size of this particular model and I was fascinated from a technical level, (my PhD is in mechanical vibration and I used to design and sell vibrating tables for industry using guitar bracing techniques to achieve a good balance.) This is weirdly excellent. I read the other day that not having wood damping some frequencies more than others gives it the clarity of a piano.

I would go along with that.... And if you plug it in, you also have one of the most respected pickup makes there is as a bonus. it may lack the heritage, it may lack the traditional craft skills of double X or whatever bracing, but the neck stays true, (machined to flat...) and the guitar stays in tune longer.

The pure unadulterated sound can be demonstrated by attaching a tuner to the headstock. I have one that if I use it on chromatic scale, it can get a string with any of my guitars but stop the string on frets and it may not see the F sharp whatever. But the Rainsong does, and for every note I stop. That is impressive. Not having to hold the other strings at all.

The downsides? Well, it does sound a bit bright, and although the depth is there, the brightness of the treble does come across a bit more than some guitars. Plugging in helps here, but UK folk clubs and acoustic playing.. not too bright otherwise I wouldn't have bought it, but the treble does carry....


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 22 Jul 10 - 05:44 PM

I've often wanted to try a DM.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: mandotim
Date: 23 Jul 10 - 02:16 AM

Welcome to the dark side, Willie! I've had a WS1000 for years, and love it; the best gigging guitar I've ever owned, if only for its utter refusal to go out of tune. Richard; I think you'd really like the jumbo model they do now. Slightly deeper body than a standard jumbo, it still has the Rainsong clear trebles, but the bass is earthshaking.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Trevor Thomas
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 10:22 AM

I've had a Rainsong WS1000 for about two years now. I've also got a Larivee. Both are excellent guitars.

The Rainsong is a really good 'all rounder'. I play in a few different styles and contexts, and the Rainsong sounds perfectly OK in any context. It's got a good strong mid range, in particular, and for single note stuff it's great. The bass isn't as massive as the Larrivee, but it's certainly pretty decent. And unlike some other guitars, the notes don't die off when you start playing up at the higher end.

The pickup is perfectly serviceable, and has a very handy phase switch and notch filter for quickly dealing with any feedback problems.

I too tried it in Doncaster against some other high end acoustics, and I found it just as good, or better, than the ones they had in at the time.

But best of all, they're very very stable. Last February I was in Hawaii and Florida. The heat & humidity had NO effect. I played Hawaiian music it, (which requires a lot of retuning) and American music with it in standard. All the while It stayed in tune, and the tone was unaffected. I then got back to the sub-zero North of England and did a small (but amplified) gig with it. Again, it was absolutely fine.

I believe that acoustically, the Larrivee and the Lowdens (and Fyldes) will outgun it – but it certainly holds its own in such company. I've also played with some Gypsy Jazz type guitars (acoustically) and it's capable of a solo being heard against about half a dozen of these being strummed.

It won't suit everyone – the neck's very thin, for instance. And there are some people (I'm one of them) who will always believe that wood has more 'character', or 'mojo'. I still play the Larrivee in local sessions, and still love it.

But for a good, reliable 'workhorse' which you can use for most acoustic styles, and take anywhere on the planet without worrying, then the Rainsong's hard to beat.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: GUEST,brick diamond
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 02:27 AM

With 12 strings jangling all kinds of different harmonics simultaneously, you need a little damping. Wood will do that.
Good of this or that kind, or carbon fiber, or steel or brass bodies, all affect the rate of decay of the notes. On a 12 string carbon fibre just lets the notes hang around too long. Too much information in the air. Confusing. You might say the Rainsong does too good a job. If I had one, I'd punch holes in it.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: GUEST,brickdiamond
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 02:32 AM

"Wood" not "Good." Should read: "Wood of this kind or that kind . . ."


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Musket
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 05:17 AM

Had my OM three years now. The LR Baggs Elementis pickup system really picks up the fundamental tone, and I have software plugged into LogicStudio that can separate the strings, and it doesn't manage it with any of my other guitars.

I have mentioned before on other threads that I was first curious about them as in a distant past I used to design vibratory structures such as feeders, screens and vibrating tables for industry. I used to adapt the double X design from guitars for vibrating tables to give an even distribution with little dead or live spots.

So, when Rainsong reckoned that by removing the bracing you remove the damping at arbitrary frequencies I was curious. (I wrote my PhD thesis on mechanical vibration.) Brick diamond has a legitimate concern, but all I can say is that the decay is less than an undamped piano and as clean. This makes my OM very clean sounding which is good, but also fails to mask your mistakes!

I rarely take anything else out with me these days, unless I need a 12 string or banjo.


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Subject: RE: Rainsong guitars
From: Mooh
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 07:49 AM

Played a few recently, both Rainsong and CA brands. I gotta say they were uniformly great sounding guitars and very tempting, though they'd never replace my solid wood acoustics. If I were starting over there'd be at least a couple in my collection. Great action, intonation, tuning stability, comfort, appearance...

Peace, Mooh.


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