Help Simon & Patrick (guitar)

Subject: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Mikey joe
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 07:50 AM

Hello

I am looking for your valued opinions. I need a new guitar. A friend of mine has a new Simon & Patrick he doesn't really play and has offered to sell it to me. It is a S&P6 model. Solid spruce top. it looks good and plays well. I think it sounds a little too bright. Is this something that will change when I put different strings on? Does anyone know anything about this guitar. And finally what do you think is a fair price. He's asking for around £190 sterling or or EUR310.

Hope ye can help

Mj

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 08:06 AM

Buy a Seagull

Let us sleep

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 08:19 AM

I've got one. I paid more than that. I think it's a great guitar, robust, sounds good.

Dave Bryant borrowed it at Stony - he's better qualified to give an opinion than I, as his skill is infinitely greater than mine. What's my guitar like, Dave?

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 08:22 AM

Incidentally, mine doesn't sound bright at all - it's really very mellow. I use Ernie Ball 14's, semiflats or round, depending...

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Mikey joe
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 09:08 AM

Thank you one and only

I've been told that the strings supplied fitted to S&P are quite shite. I've been blaming them for this BRIGHT BRIGHT sound. I'm think of putting some dead strings from another guitar on the S&P to see if it still sounds bright.

Mj

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 09:15 AM

Mikey.......Could be. You might check back through some of the Seagull threads too. The Godin group guitars have some similarities and you will also find a number of references to S&P guitars. Try the Supersearch using S and P, S&P, Simon and Patrick, and Simon & Patrick........They will all get you some hits and possibly some more info. There is a ton of opinions and info on Seagulls and the Simo & Patrick stuff is often within those threads. I don't know if there is anything there to help you, but it's wort a shot.

Strings, saddles, nuts, bridge pins....All contribute to the sound, especially in terms of brightness which when overdone becomes quite tinny. Sorry I can't provide you with more.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 09:25 AM

Solid spruce top??

What's the finish?

If it's the so called 'satin finish' then even if it is kinda bright, its tone will mellow the more it's played... My oldest Seagull once bright and jangly is so old and well played it's mellowed to sound like a black velvet bag of gravel and smoke...

One day I'm gonna get the poor old girl re-fretted and put a decent pick up into her, and get her back into service... she's too good to live in the closet...

As far as S&P go... well, I can only talk about the 5 or 8 that I have played in various music stores... While I did like them well enough, I didn't like them enough to not buy Seagull when push came to shove...

The price seems to be pretty good...

Do you LIKE playing the guitar?

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Mikey joe
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 09:29 AM

I s'pose that's the question Clinton and I'm not sure. It feels good and it rings out. The only thing that was bothering me was this brightness it's almost tinny. But other than that yes I do like playing it.

I take your point about the seagull and agree but funds unfortunately wont allow.

Mj

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 09:37 AM

Will yer chum let ya try different strings on it before ya buy it off him?

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 09:40 AM

I'm probably not the best person for Dai to ask for a guitar testimonial - I don't really think he could hear me playing (most people don't want to !).

I found Dai's guitar beautifully crafted - I was a bit worried about handling such fine instrument. It was very light and responsive with a perfect action, and the tone seemed very mellow. I have to admit that, with only about one exception, I was playing along to band music ie melodeons etc.

My normal box is a very old (late 60's) Yamaha FG180 with Martin HEAVIES on it, which produces a level of sound with absolutely no finesse, which can compete with six melodeons or my voice in a noisy pub and dent a pewter tankard two bars away, so obviously it is rather different to what I'm used to.

Nevertheless, when I used it to accompany "Home Lads, Home" which I probably sing more gently than most songs, I found it wonderful for the job - I had two people in the audience admit to damp eyes afterwards. - Hmm, perhaps I ought to get a more lyrical guitar after all .....

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 09:55 AM

You'll maybe have to forgive this...

But ghosting around the S&P web site, I can't escape the feeling that they are more or less, just low end Seagulls...

Possibly very good low end Seagulls...

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Mikey joe
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 10:06 AM

Yes Clinton I think they are low end seagulls. But I at the same time I think to refer to them as low end guitars doesn't do them justice. I would plump for a Seagull or Norman but as I said the funds unfornuately don't allow. Having said that I think for the price they seem to retail at they seem to be very good

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Feb 02 - 10:10 AM

Ya... I didn't mean it as a bad thing!

Affordability is one of my favourite things to find in a good playing guitar! That's one of the reasons why I love Seagulls so much...

S&P seem to be guilty of the same success!

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: black walnut
Date: 24 Jun 03 - 04:30 PM

I just bought my teenage daughter her first guitar today (at 12th Fret/TO)! It's a little 'Folk' Simon & Patrick. Seems really really nice for the price. She loves it. Nice to play, good sound, nice to look at, comfortable to hold. Just under $500 Canadian.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 04:52 AM

my other half has a S*P and thinks it very good value.

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Lanfranc
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 02:23 PM

I had a S&P for a while, but sold it when it became apparent that the minimalist finish was too fragile for my robust flatpicking style. It would have looked like Willie Nelson's "Trigger" in about six months!

Alan

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: GUEST,Spike
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 03:37 PM

Just my twopenny worth, for what its worth.   I Bought a S&P of the same model, because I wanted something "electrified", and tried aTaylor CE310 and the S&P. PURELY on "plugged in tone" I bought the S&P. ( I should at this point explain I play a 20year old original Sigma, that puts MANY D28 Martins of the same vintage to shame tonally ) OH BOY BIG BOO BOO!!! What a pile of doo doo it was, within a fortnight, it had started "going off" and was in need of a SERIOUS set up, and the tone just seemed to be getting worse!! I tried my usual Martin Phos Bronze 11's on it ....Nah, crap as well, followed by just about every string make and guage I could lay my hands on, and............ CRAP, as the man says, cheap, not very cheerful, and there are better similarly priced boxes out there!! You have been warned!                                                                                    Cheers

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 25 Jun 03 - 03:45 PM

Every guitar worth its salt needs a good setting up a few weeks after you buy it... One does the same with a brand new car...

Maybe ya just got a bad 'un eh Spike...

:-)

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick (guitar)
From: mooman
Date: 26 Jun 03 - 11:25 AM

My bandmate has one the same.

I think it's a quite decent guitar and the price you've been offered sounds reasonable to me. My friend's was also a little tinny with the strings supplied so I gave him a set of Elixir Polyweb 12-53s. These are not so bright as typical strings "out of the box" but will hold their tone without deterioration for 3 or 4 times as long (they are, however, twice as expensive!). His S&P now sounds more mellow and he is very pleased with the sound. As 'Spaw said, there are a number of other fairly basic factor that can influence the sound, some of which (e.g. saddle, nut) are easy enough to adjust.

All the best,

moo

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick (guitar)
From: black walnut
Date: 27 Jun 03 - 08:36 AM

I would feel confident buying any guitar at The Twelfth Fret. They don't sell junk. The S&P is a good beginner guitar for my daughter. She wanted something small, comfortable, pretty and easy to play. She's learning her chords and she's playing it. I couldn't ask for more.

Thanks for the advice on the strings, moo. I might try them on it in the fall.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick (guitar)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 04 - 09:22 PM

S&P made 3 separate lines of guitars using a variety of woods. The beginner line was laminate top, back and sides. The intermediate line was solid top (cedar or spruce) with laminate sides and thier "pro" line was solid top, back and sides. It would be a good idea to determine exactly from what series the guitar you are looking for is from.
I owned a S&P with solid cedar top and cherry laminate back and sides and it was quite mellow in tone. A wonderful guitar for the price actually. I pd something like $260.00 (Cdn) hardshell case included. Apparently it was a "second". A slight marr on the finish on the lower bout/side of guitar, right where a jack would go. It was not even noticeable without careful inspection.
I sold it to a deserving student 2 yrs ago, approx 6 months after I bought it and he loves it to death. I really should not have sold it but the student needed a new guitar worse than I needed a second "beater" and after playing it for 6 months, I felt it was still a good axe for the cash I paid. Only problem so far was a loose brace in the top that was easily repaired.

Subject: RE: Help Simon & Patrick (guitar)
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 07 Oct 04 - 06:23 AM

I've got two S&P6 Mahogany Cedars which will have a more mellow tone than the spruce top, but I know from when trying them out, there is a huge variability in tone etc, so this might have been an excessively bright example. Putting on some old strings from another guitar is not the answer, they will probably not survive the change of instrument for long anyway. Find a set that suits your preferences. The Elixir polywebs will have a more mellow tone but I can't stand the feel - a bit like playing strings with wax on them! The satin tops give no protection to hard gigging and mine look like a Martian landscape now. However, they are nice to play and I reckon they are very good value for money. I've been looking around recently for something a bit more special and I reckon that you would have to pay a lot of money to get something that is not just better, but significantly better.