Small Guitars?

Subject: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 02 May 98 - 01:14 AM

I will most likely be in the US later in the year, and one of my projects there is to search out a (cheap) small guitar for traveling.

I have heard of the "Martin Backpacker" and the "Tacoma Papoose". The impression I have is that the Backpacker has standard tuning, but sounds like junk, whereas the Papoose is tuned a fourth higher than the standard guitars. There also seems to be a "Taylor Baby"--but I suspect that is out of my price range--even second-hand.

It has also occurred to me to get a cheap electric and listen to it with an earphone. It would be the only ugly looking instrument in my house.

I would be interested in opinions and other ideas for a good guitar for traveling.

(I most likely can peruse the archives of the acoustic guitar newsgroup and get plenty on this subject, and I will; but I would like the opinion of other mudcaters)

Murray

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Barbara
Date: 02 May 98 - 05:54 AM

I wouldn't say the Martin Backpacker sounds like *shit*, it just doesn't sound like a guitar. My dulcimer playing friends love it, and some even are evolving 6 string modal tunings for it. We got a half size Hohner, yes, like the harmonica, for about $100 new, with a plywood top and while it isn't nearly as good as our good guitars, it does fit nicely in the overhead carrier rack of an airplane. And it's durable. You could paddle a canoe with it if you had to. Barbara

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Frank in the swamps
Date: 02 May 98 - 07:05 AM

Backpacker as a dulcimer? Hmm. Well Barbara, a moment ago I would have said the instrument does sound like "doo doo" but the different perspective throws a whole new light on it.

Anyway, I have tried the Papoose, it's quite a nice guitar, but it is tuned higher. If you're ok with that then I'd say it's a good buy, I seriously considered one for a camping guitar, but since my Lady Fair plays violin, I couldn't be bothered with refiguring all the damn tunes. The baby taylor is a pretty expensive crittur, if you want a knockabout it is a lot to spend. NOT TO WORRY! there are a lot of small instruments in the stores that are pretty inexpensive, I bought a half size for my niece last autumn for about eighty dollars. I've seen more minis hitting the market lately, so you should find you have a lot of options when you get here. Just don't buy anything until you've checked out the second hand shops. Look in the retail stores first, then check the hand me downs.

By the way, where in this lovely land will you be arriving? I live in Florida, but regional variations in the states exist. Local Mudcateers can give you better advice.

Frank i.t.s.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: judy
Date: 02 May 98 - 12:48 PM

If you're going to be in LA I could let you have (read: borrow) a small guitar I picked up in a garage sale for very little. Someone more knowlegeably than I am said it has a pretty nice sound. You could use it for however long you want and send it back when you're done.

enjoy! judy [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Will
Date: 02 May 98 - 03:28 PM

Gotta concur about the Backpacker. It's a better curiousity than a guitar.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Roger Himler
Date: 02 May 98 - 05:45 PM

I don't think the Backpacker is the guitar for which Murray is looking. It sounds like he wants to be able to perform with it.

I have owned the precursor to the Martin Backpacker, a Mc Nally Backpacker, for over 10 years. It is a practice guitar. The neck duplicates a standard guitar neck and it uses light gauge strings. Given it's very small size, however, means it has not richness of tone. Sometimes it reminds me of Lightnin' Hopkins playing through an old tube amp with a cracked speaker.

I certainly feel like I have gotten my money's worth and I have taken it many places I would not take a decent guitar. I just wanted to speak up for it. It sounds like doo doo, but you can treat it like doo doo and practice your licks most anywhere.

Roger from Baltimore

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Earl
Date: 02 May 98 - 07:56 PM

The Backpacker is true to it's name, take it camping.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 02 May 98 - 08:29 PM

Thanks for the answers. I will be in Philadelphia and in Iowa City where my family and in-laws respectively live.

I didn't give enogh detail. I don't want to perform with it. I just want to practice on it. I don't have to be in the city as much as I used to and I am planning to move out into the mountains. I will probably come into Sydney on the train and stay there two or three days per week. I got rid of my car many years ago, so I want to be able to carry it to the train by foot or bike. In fact I will probably be carrying it around on a bicycle quite a bit.

What is the nut width of the Papoose, and of these fractional sized instruments? From what you say, one good thing about the Martin is that it has a standard fingerboard.

Barbara, I said "junk" not "shit", not that I know the difference when it comes to describing the sound of an instrument :-) One of my projects when I get better on the instrument, is to try to imitate the Carter Family sound. How does a Backpacker compare to an autoharp?

Thanks for the offer, Judy. I will probably land in Lax; but I don't think there will be time to pick up a guitar. After sitting on a 'plane all those hours, you can probably give me a Uke and tell me it is a 12 string guitar. ;-} I will keep your email address, however--you never know.

Murray

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 03 May 98 - 03:11 AM

Oh yeah, and I meant to ask those in the Phila. and Iowa City areas if they can suggest good second-hand instrument stores.

My mother has moved all the way up in northeast Philly--almost at the end of the city, and I will be staying with her; but as long as the buses and the Frankford El are still running, I can get almost anywhere.

Murray

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Szarak
Date: 04 May 98 - 05:10 AM

Hi, Murray

I've tried several small models, just to play myself while camping or traveling. Of course I've always preferred playing my Martin HD-28, but it's quite unconfortable to use US$2200 guitar near the camp-fire.

At last I bought second hand Yamaha APXT-1. You can see it on http://www.yamahaguitars.com/ns/guitars/apx.html It's quite cheap, you can use it as acoustic or electro-acoustic, it's reliable, small, etc.

As for the sound: well it tunes and you can play it. Of course you can't expect the sound of full-size dreadnought or jumbo model...

Sláinte,

Szarak

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: steve t
Date: 04 May 98 - 07:11 AM

I think I know the Yamaha guitar Szarak is talking about. In Ottawa it goes for about US$245. and comes with its own gig bag. It sounded terrible compared to my full size Korean Yamaha, but OODLES better than any Uke I've ever held. I never thought to try sticking headphones into the pickup socket.

Travel guitars are only great while you're moving. If you have a stable base camp, I'd suggest renting an instrument. But don't forget your tuner at home as I've been known to do...

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 04 May 98 - 07:33 AM

Thanks for the tip Szarak. It sounds like a real possibility.

Murray

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Brad Sondahl
Date: 04 May 98 - 09:37 AM

A friend of mine plays a Martin Ukelele. That's about as small as guitars get... :')

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Doc423
Date: 04 May 98 - 04:26 PM

Has anyone tried the OVATION APPLAUSE Model AA 13?? It is small, tough, and sounds pretty good. Check it out.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 04 May 98 - 08:23 PM

I always feel I should wear a racoon coat when I play a ukelele, Brad ;^)

The trouble with that instrument is that (I think) it only has four strings which makes it an unsatisfactory practice instrument, although I broke a G-string on Sunday and wassn't near a music store on Monday, so I have been playing a five-string guitar for the last two days.

I have put the Ovation on my list of guitars to look at.

Murray

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: jeffs
Date: 04 May 98 - 09:45 PM

There's also the baby Taylor. I think it's a bit bigger than the Ovation. I've heard that it comes with a hardshell case now.

jeff s

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 05 May 98 - 03:02 AM

I found Martin's website and had a look at the backpacker. The picture they provide is too small to get too much detail, but it looks to me like a balalika that has been on a hunger strike.

Don't take that as a negative statement. Probably a sturdy little guitar with standard tuning should have a different design from the traditional shape.

Jeff, I was under the impression that the baby Taylor was pretty expensive.

Murray

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Bert
Date: 05 May 98 - 09:04 AM

Murray

Let us know when you are arriving in Philadelphia and we will organize a sing.
I'll keep my eyes open at local flea markets to see if I can find a small guitar, but reasonable guitars at reasonable prices are pretty rare.
Looking forward to seeing you. Bert

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: steve t
Date: 07 May 98 - 12:44 PM

In Ottawa, Baby Taylors go for about US$350.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 25 Oct 98 - 07:37 PM

Just refreshing this thread. I was wondering what Murray ended up buying (if anything) and how satisfied he was.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Oct 98 - 08:20 PM

I picked up a Baby Taylor for my 6 year old to begin her musical journey with. I got it at Elderly for $200/US used, although there is not a mark on it. Their shop set it up and it is wonderful, with a sound that is surprising.

What did you finally end up with?

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: BSeed
Date: 26 Oct 98 - 12:08 AM

Murray and others (too late to be of much help to Murray, I suppose) I have a Baby Taylor, w/HSC, purchased from Guitar Center for $340, including tax. Their price on the guitar alone is about $240. I was in there yesterday and saw a baby Ibanez--looked nice (I didn't play it because there was someone in the room playing beautiful blues on a Weber mandolin). I also have a Yamaha guitalele, essentially a six string baritone uke--bought it in Japan for $80 last fall because I hadn't brought an instrument along. Fun, but not a performance instrument, unless you're Tiny Tim.

The Baby Taylor, however, has the sound of a much bigger guitar (except the low E string hasn't got much oomph), and has excellent action. It has a back shaped to bounce more of the sound out, which I imagine plays a large part in the volume it produces. I consider mine an honest guitar, one which ought to get better and better with use. --seed

And Mick--I bought mine for myself, all 6'6" of me.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Oct 98 - 12:29 AM

Sweet Jazus, Seed, but are you not a great huge bear of a man to be playin' such a wee small guitar? Faith, but I am 6'2 and 240 meself. And I agree with you about the Baby Taylor. After I bought it for wee Ciara, I end up playing it meself. And doesn't she get after her ole da, when he does.

Do you use standard tuning?

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Mike T.
Date: 26 Oct 98 - 02:37 PM

I saw a cute travel guitar at http://www.stringsmith.com/order.html called a "Vagabond travel guitar"

$349.00 if I remember right.

Does anyone have any info on it?

Mike T.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: lingolucky
Date: 26 Oct 98 - 04:07 PM

I have solved this portable guitar problem for myself. I simply made my own folding guitar. It's not at all light, and when the neck is unfolded it's not small either. But it sounds very good indeed, and when folded it will go in an airplane overhead or under a seat. I am not a skilled woodworker or luther, but I enjoyed putting this thing together and it gets a lot of attentiom everywhere I take it. Lane goldsmith

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 26 Oct 98 - 07:55 PM

As a matter of fact, I haven't bought a travelling guitar yet. My travelling plans are postphoned for the time being, so the problem became less urgent.

For travelling around Sydney and environs, I found a small guitar made in Italy Called a "Sisme model A". It has a trapezoidal tailpiece and a moveable bridge (like old Gibsons), so it can take fairly heavy strings with a light body construciton. It has a very small body with the dimensions of a classical but about 2/3 the depth. It also has a short (12 frets beyond the body) fingerboard. As to tone, well, if I could only learn how to make scratches it would sound like and old record :) That has its advantages. You can really hear the melody when fingerpicking. I carry it around with a cheap, light gig-bag with shoulder straps like a rucksack.

I did a lot of investigating of travel guitars, though, and I will get one someday. My opinion is that the Backpacker is probably the strongest one, and it seems to be offered cheaper by the month. I got my hands on one and I found it a bit awkward to play. You need a strap and even with the strap as it comes. But if you refasten the strap on the scroll (like all old-time guitarists did), it has fairly good balance.

I think the Baby Taylor is the closest to a "real" guitar. So is the Tacoma Papoose if you don't mind the higher tuning. I am interested in the Tommyhawk, but I couldn't find any info. The Vagabond looks interesting. Apparently it is played by some performing groups; but plugged in.

There is also the Soloete which is a folding guitar that you play while listening with an earphone (stethescope?) arrangement. It is a bit expensive, though.

Lingolucky: What do you do with the strings when you fold it?

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: BSeed
Date: 27 Oct 98 - 01:44 AM

yes, Mick, I do use EADGBA (maybe part of the reason the low E is a bit dead?). The original strings on it seem somewhat heavy for tuning higher; when I change to lights, I'll likely tune it up a whole note (F#BEAC#F#) (Maybe all the way to G, if it'll take it. Who wants to play blues in F#? --seed

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: lingolucky
Date: 27 Oct 98 - 02:20 PM

Answering Murray: My homemade folding guitar started out as a dresser drawer, which I modified and used as the box, I narrowed it at the small end and put a trap door in the back. Tension is maintained with a heavy piece of piano wire, adjustable, There are no tuning gears, it's tuned with tuning pins at the butt end. Wheb folding I place several capos down the neck, gather up the strings through thr trap door with a strip of rubber and tie them down. Lane Goldsmith

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Bert
Date: 27 Oct 98 - 03:34 PM

BJ's Wholesale club, which has locations in the North East and Florida have just got in a stock of cheap guitars. The most expensive is a full size steel string acoustic for $90. It sounded really good for the price. They also have two smaller styles which are about $30 & $50 each.

I didn't try one of the smaller ones but if you have a BJ's in your area it might be worth taking a look.

My experience of similar cheap guitars is that if you are prepared to try a fey different ones you might luck out and get a good one.

Happy hunting,
Bert.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 27 Oct 98 - 07:15 PM

Lingolucky: Do you disconnect the strings from the tuning pins, or do you disconnect the tuning pins from the body (or do I still not understand.)

Murray

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Bert
Date: 28 Oct 98 - 02:20 PM

Lingolucky: You're just going to have to publish the plans, 'cos we all want to make one.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: lingolucky
Date: 28 Oct 98 - 02:35 PM

I'd be glad to share my plans for folding guitar, but I don't have any plans--I'll have to draw some. But, Murray I do not need to disconnect the strings , When I unlatch the wooden hinge joint and disconnect the tension cable, the strings go slack and can be pulled inside the box. Ok? Lane Goldsmith

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Snookums
Date: 31 Oct 98 - 01:03 PM

Backpacker- plays nice, sounds like a bad banjo. Good price- $249 at Rieman's in Des Moines. Tacoma Papoose- would likely get my vote- kind of pricey, around $400 in Iowa- plays nice, fingering would not throw you off- tuned to A. Baby Taylor- haven't seen in Iowa so haven't played. I understand from the local dealers that it is tuned to A as well. Don't know about cost. Yamaha makes a nice little travel guitar. Don't know that much about it other than it plays nice. Found an acoustic/electric model in Lexington Kentucky for about $450. Right now, Iowa is not the acoustic instrument of the world and it's hard to find second hand instruments- especially things like travel guitars that are just beginning to become popular in these parts. Favorite dealers are Rieman's on Douglas in Des Moines as well as the Fort Dodge store, Mainstreet Music in Ames, Last Chance Guitars in Des Moines (the best place so far for vintage and 2nd hand instruments in this area) and Solar Loan- a pawn shop on E. 5th or 6th street in Des Moines.

Since Iowa City is a college town, there are likely some decent music stores and pawn shops there as well, however, I am closer to the Des Moines area, so I don't know Iowa City very well.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 31 Oct 98 - 08:18 PM

OK Lane. It was the tension cable I didn't have straight. Now I can visualize it. (Although I'm not sure I could make one.)

There has been some postings in RMMA about an inflatable guitar that is being developed. It is meant to be a serious instrument that will sell in the US$600 range.

If that intrigues you like it did me. Look at:

http://www.chrysalisguitars.com

Murray

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Snookums
Date: 01 Nov 98 - 01:00 PM

Just bought an Applause mini for my mom- price $250. Sound a little better than strings across a tin can- sort of like any acoustic electric unplugged. Not much volume. But still a nice toy. Probably the best for the least money that I have found. Uses standard tuning. Mom's rather petite, so I think it will be the easiest for her to start with.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: clansfolk
Date: 01 Nov 98 - 03:40 PM

You think the Martin backpacker is **** and a uke would be a small guitar?

What about the Martin Backpacker Uke??? that really is taking things to the extreme, however I couldn't resist it - it grabs the attention and really doesn't sound "that bad", have and like the papoose sounds nice in Nashville or open tuning (or using a shubbs partial capo) also like the Baby Taylor (prefer the tone of the newer mahogony fronted model)

Could try busking in the rain maybe the guitar would shrink - maybe that too silly.

Bye.................Pete

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From:
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 05:34 AM

That is too silly Pete. The guitar would shrink unevenly and you would be left with a funny-shaped instrument (maybe an Ovatiion ;})

Seriously, I have heard that the BP Uke is a lot more satisfying to play as a uke than the guitar is to play as a guitar. I don't know much about playing the uke; but I think there would be no problem holding it like there is for the guitar.

Murray

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Snookums
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 09:05 AM

I don't think Ovations can shrink- too much plastic in them.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Steve in Wisconsin
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 07:50 PM

So, what's the deal? Have all of us folkies gotten old and have too many kids. dogs, and luggage to travel with a full-size!?! Okay, that's me. I'm late to this discussion, but I just spent part of last weekend looking at smaller guitars. I was insulted when someone put a "Montana" in my arms. Trust me, though I agree the Martin Backpacker is nothing more than a neck and a cigar box with strings, it has 100% more integrity than the guitar this young, arrogant salesman tried to sell me.

I live in Wisconsin and have been intrigued by the Baby Taylor concept. I have heard from several people that it at least sounds and plays like a real guitar. (Papoose was nice, but I don't want to play a fourth up always-though sometimes it's nice). A $200 price tag on a Baby Taylor sounds good too. Anybody know where in Wisconsin to look?

Acoustically, Steve

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Barbara
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 09:05 PM

No, but Elderly Music is just a stone's throw across the lake (in Lansing, Michigan) and I gather they ship. Have a web page too, I b'lieve. Ask Mick.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Dan Keding
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 09:16 PM

If small means able to get it into an overhead compartment on an airplane than any O, OO, OOO or OM size guitar will do. I travel a fair bit by air and have never had a problem getting my om size in an overhead bin. If the plane is truly a puddle jumper then they take your guitar away at the plane and give it back to you at the bottom of the stairs at your arrival. I use a Calton case which is slightly larger and it still fits in the overhead, except on L1011's. Weird bins on those. I'm also a fairly large man and the small size feels fine to me. Too small (Backpacker, etc.)and you're not playing a guitar, you're playing a toy.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Nov 98 - 11:43 PM

Yup, Barbara, they do indeed ship. If you go to www.elderly.com they probably have it in there catalogue.

Jazus, but I have turned into a shill for these guys. I ought to be getting a cut. If they offer one, I will just have them send it to the 'Cat. ****grin****

Seriously, Steve, they have an excellent selection and their luthiers are second to none. They setup every instrument before it leaves the shop. I am not connected to them, just an absolute devoted customer due to excellent service, fair prices and a product line second to none. And by the way, one of the most amazing showrooms you will find.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: GUEST,fredzon
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 07:31 AM

Check out this site!! I think this solves the problem.
www.fredzon.com

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Ragman
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 01:52 PM

I got an Ozark travel guitar latt year in Glasgow for £125, and it has been a great buy. It looks rather like a tenor mandolin with a 7/8 size guitar fretboard. It plays very accurately, nice sound, though not very loud, so it's better suited for practice, or a small group in a quiet setting. It comes with a strap and a soft flat rectangular carry bag, which rather resembles a rifle case. You should see the airport security staff gathering round the x-ray machine to decide what it is! When I offer to play them a tune, they let me through without further delay. It usually fits without problems in the storage over the seats. When unzipped in public, it usually attracts some interesting comments, and provides opportunities to pass what would otherwise be very lonely spells in hotels, stations and airports. Apparently there is also a version with a pickup, if you really want to be heard.

I'm rather surprised that no one so far has mentioned the Ozark in this thread.

Before anyone makes the comment, No I am not an Ozark rep. I just found this little guitar to be just what I needed when travelling.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 28 Oct 04 - 11:27 PM

Hehe, see i have the opposite problem to the 'tall person, small guitar' thing. I'm 5'1" and i only have full sized guitars, so it's a little awkward and i probably look like an idiot, but smaller guitars just don't sound big enough for my purposes :) I have been trying to find one for travelling with, but they're all way too expensive. Hope you find one that suits!:0)

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 04:26 PM

I used to have a Martin Backpacker and it does fit in an airline overhead - I took mine to Hong Kong a few times. However, I would not recommend it - I am mainly a bedroom player but I found the sound really tinny. I eventually sold it and bought a Baby Taylor. I have never tried that in an overhead and the sound is nowhere as good as my full size guitars but it does the job when you are in a hotel room somewhere and you want a quiet strum.

Eric

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: GUEST,Tom
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 05:18 PM

I've got a Greg Smallman, bought in Australia 1979. As far as I know, one of only two that he made. Its got a small, classical style body with steel strings. Beautiful guitar.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: caz2ufolk
Date: 29 Oct 04 - 06:25 PM

I'll second you Ragman about the Travel Ozark. I've had mine for about 8 months same price(lovely guitar) It has a medieval sound to it and great for finger picking.

caz

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: DougR
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:27 PM

Anyone familiar with the Ibanez DT traveler guitars? If so, what do you think of their quality? I've been looking at the Baby Martin guitars, and the Baby Taylor, the Baby Yamaha, but I'm considering the Ibanez too.

Any advice will be appreciated.

Subject: RE: Small Guitars?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:14 PM

http://www.daisyrock.com/products/pixie/px_acoustic_boxset.htm